Defexpo 2006

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SaiK
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Post by SaiK »

private participation should make the arjun-mk2s to higher production numbers.. if we can jack up to 20 arjuns per year, that means something.
George J

Post by George J »

SaiK wrote:private participation should make the arjun-mk2s to higher production numbers.. if we can jack up to 20 arjuns per year, that means something.
What will pvt participation do if the IA refuses to accept the Arjun on more insidious issues? If there are even hints are a firm commitment to induct the Arjun then it makes sense for pvt sector, else why should it take on all the risk?

The only thing that pvt sector can do MUCH BETTER than a PSU is "grease the wheels" of resistance to Arjun. But I donno if they can put in more grease than the Russian greasers.

Its simple boys...money talks and PSU/GOI cant do that kinda talking. I am sure HAL did a lot of wineing and dining with the Chileians.
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Post by SaiK »

sure they can grease better than pirang greasers. they can also add PTFE to a silicon grease if need be. tatas and big weights can always carry suitcase of these to all IA yamuna bank retirees.. heck, we can't get this any other way than this.

okay.. this is bad.. lets do this. and make it a sting operation. two birds in one shot. let IA be clear of such men.
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Post by Sharma »

Has somebody removed the video links posted by me? Atleast I should have been informed.
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Post by Kersi D »

JCage wrote:What really places the Arjun in a different category vs the T-90S/M are its crew protection measures. Unfortunately, the T-90 retains the effed up ammunition arrangement of the T series, with semicombustible cased ammunition scattered all over the tank, posing an extremely disastrous (in case of penetration, fire hazard); an explosion would also disable any fire detection and suppression system and pop up the turret. The commander and gunner "sit" on a carousel autoloader which places the ammo in the hull ( a plus), but offers no protection against lateral penetration of the autoloader. The Arjun in contrast has heavy armour and passive crew protection measures (separated ammunition) and a semiautomatic loader (a la the Merk) behind armour protection is scheduled for Mk2, an improvement over the earlier system. Then there is the LWS as well.
The exisitng Arjun has a laser warning system
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Post by chan »

The DRDO Reva -FCV looks like an impressive development.

What plans do DRDO have for it ? Will the Maini group market this for commercial use ? How much might it cost ? Have the armed forces shown any interest ?
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Post by JCage »

Sharma wrote:Has somebody removed the video links posted by me? Atleast I should have been informed.
They're still there on the previous page.
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Post by JCage »

Kersi D wrote:The exisitng Arjun has a laser warning system
Yes, and the commander has access to the display as well...btw please check ur rediffmail...

____________________________________________________________

About pvt sector:

Defence employees union would have collective fit aka strike
Full scale Arjun production by pvt sector w/o long term orders means GOI picks up part of tab for infra & facility. Hard for GOI to explain to the useless commies, given that existing PSU facilities are already around (BEML, BHEL).
Last edited by JCage on 08 Feb 2006 15:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by viktor »

Is the tactical display one with touch screen ? And it has something similar to IVIS. Arjun is not only a tank but a BMS (Battlefield Management System. I am sure T-90S is nowhere close. If only IA would utilise it effectively.
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Post by SRoy »

GoI might consider inviting private participations for production of Arjun and the same time maintaining the T72/T90 production lines in the Avadi facility.

That should take care of the Leftist goons.

Moving forward...can we then export some Arjuns with downgraded features to smaller friendly countries? That should ensure the financial viability for the private players.
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ISRAELI STALLS

Post by JaiS »

BARAK

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EHUD ACMI POD

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ELBIT - WIN-BMS - GROUND FORCES TACTICAL TRAINER #1

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ELBIT - WIN-BMS - GROUND FORCES TACTICAL TRAINER #2

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ELBIT HIGH DATA-RATE MARITIME VSAT TERMINAL#1

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ELBIT HIGH DATA-RATE MARITIME VSAT TERMINAL#2

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ELBIT HIGH DATA RATE MARITIME VSAT TERMINAL INFOBOARD

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ELBIT INFOBOARD - DIGITAL ARMY IN ACTION

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Post by JaiS »

EL/M - 2052 AESA RADAR

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EL/M - 20600 RADAR TARGETING POD

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EL/L-8247/48 RWJ COMPACT SP EW SUITE

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FIREBALL PRECISION GUIDED MORTAR BOMB PHOTO

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FIREBALL PRECISION GUIDED MORTAR BOMB OPERATIONAL SCENARIO

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GALIL SNIPER RIFLE

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HELI COAT SIMULATOR #1

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HELI COAT SIMULATOR #2

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HELI COAT SIMULATOR #3

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Post by JaiS »

ELBIT DGCS #1

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ELBIT DGCS #2

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HERMES UAV FAMILY INFOBOARD

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HERMES 450 - #1

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HERMES 450 - #2

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HERMES 450 - #3

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Post by JaiS »

ISRAEL NATIONAL PAVILION

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IMI FAMILY OF ARTY ROCKET SYSTEMS

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IMI PINAKA TCS INFOBOARD

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VARIOUS ISRAELI MISSILES

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ISRAELI WEAPON INDUSTRIES STALL #1

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ISRAELI WEAPON INDUSTRIES STALL #2

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JAM AIR - DIRCM System

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LAHAT MISSILES

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JaiS
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Post by JaiS »

MINI UZI

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PYTHON 5 AND DERBY

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SPYDER SYSTEM #1

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SPYDER SYSTEM #2

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SKYLARK UAV InfoBoard

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SKY STAR MINI RECCE BALLOON

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SKY STAR MINI RECCE BALLOON - PAYLOAD

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Post by Cybaru »

Cool stuff jai.. Do you have infoboard for 2052 radar ?? Any information new about it ??
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Post by SaiK »

JCage.. thats is something to hear. Defence Employees can form unions and strike!?!? i did not know that. i thought all defence staff are essential employees and thus can't strike. would'nt they sign up in the job agreement at the time of joining?

ok lets assume there is a threat looming and a la kargil is happening.. would we be giving jilebis to those striking guys, or whip their ass to do the work?
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Post by Vick »

Defense employees are about to strike... for the 6th Pay Commission.
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Post by SaiK »

oh.. that i can agree to it.. not strike at strategic or defence related production issues. give me a break please.
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Post by vina »

SaiK wrote:JCage.. thats is something to hear. Defence Employees can form unions and strike!?!? i did not know that. i thought all defence staff are essential employees and thus can't strike. would'nt they sign up in the job agreement at the time of joining?

ok lets assume there is a threat looming and a la kargil is happening.. would we be giving jilebis to those striking guys, or whip their ass to do the work?
Employees of the OFB and other defense PSUs like HAL are civilian employees. They have the right to strike just like the counterparts like any other sector. The govt, psu , departments and public sector broadly in general is the the sweet spot for unionism. This is the place where electoral politics, soicalist welfarism and govt patronage politics converge, usually protected by legislated /govt mandated monopolies/quasi monopolies. This is the most fertile ground for unbridled and irresponsbible trade unionism bordering on holdging the entire country in some cases to ransom(where most of the critical parts of the economy) are handled by govt/allied orgs.

Now in a national emergency like a war, these rights are kept in abeyance and in the broader public interest, in sectors deemed essential like utilites, transport etc, the govt ini India can invoke the Essential Services Maintenance Act (ESMA) that can make strikes illegal in such circumstances.

Bottom line.. 1960s/70s like trade union/ gherao /flash strikes/stranded at the same spot for 6 hours kind of environment in West Bengal is the sure recipe for de-industrialization and flight of capital..
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Post by vina »

Vick wrote:Defense employees are about to strike... for the 6th Pay Commission.
Good.. No problem, pay them well ..I have no quarrels with that. However, insist that these will be directly linked to the profitability of the enterprise, productivity, quality and competitiveness in the market. Also if harsh measures need to be taken like downsizing, write that into the contract with the unions..
George J

Post by George J »

vina wrote:Good.. No problem, pay them well ..I have no quarrels with that. However, insist that these will be directly linked to the profitability of the enterprise, productivity, quality and competitiveness in the market. Also if harsh measures need to be taken like downsizing, write that into the contract with the unions..
GUYS THIS IS NOT A GOOD PLACE TO GO OFF ON THE 6TH PAY COMMISSION TANGENT (it is worthwhile but not here). STICK TO DEFEXPO PLEASE.
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Post by Cybaru »

George J wrote: GUYS THIS IS NOT A GOOD PLACE TO GO OFF ON THE 6TH PAY COMMISSION TANGENT (it is worthwhile but not here). STICK TO DEFEXPO PLEASE.
Ban GJ ..
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Post by SaiK »

:rotfl: Good Job cybaru!
George J

Post by George J »

Hey No one said you cant use CAPS, BOLD or UNDERLINE. Its the colors and non default fonts thats paki.

So that means YOU get banned not me. :)
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Post by Vick »

JaiS, buddy, thanks for the pics, especially of the info boards but you definitely need a camera with image stabilization :D
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Post by Sumeet »

JaiS,

Any more info on 2052 AESA -- infoboard, brochure etc.......
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Post by SaiK »

http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... dar6dt.jpg

Is that each square represents a t/r module. if so, i do count only 1360 of them. 40 x 34 rows. I thought they boasted 1500 t/r GaAs modules. but pretty close and good enough for mig-29s.
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Re: ISRAELI STALLS

Post by srai »

JaiS wrote:BARAK

Image
...
Check the poster of a boat behind the Barak ...

Apparantly that is called "Dark Shark":
Israel Defense Forces Navy Unleashes "Death Shark" Against Terrorism
...
The unmanned speedboat is equipped with a remote-controlled machine gun capable of being operated with laser accuracy up to a range of 50 kilometers, reportedly the first of its kind in the world.

Private defense analysts who have studied photos of the "Death Shark" or what the IDF brands as the "Protector" state that the Rafael Industries weapon is equipped with at least four cameras, as well as a sonar or radar system and electro-optics capable of providing a three-dimensional image. The cameras are said to operate with the same distance and high definition as satellite cameras, being able to capture a licence plate number and the barrel of gun from a distance of 10 miles.

The nine-meter-long, rigid hull, inflatable vessel has been undergoing sea trials for a number of months. Israel Navy officials said it has "already drawn blood" but declined to elaborate. They stressed that the unmanned boat was an "all-Israel" assembly.
...
Developers also said the "Death Shark" could be used to ferry Israel and allied commandos, as well as contribute to anti-terrorist protection. Analysts say it could be used as the ultimate "suicide bomber" being able to carry a payload of undefined weapons against a ship, submarine or an enemy coastal military installation. The analysts suspect that the "Death Shark" has been around for at least a year, with hundreds deployed throughout the waters of the Middle East and Mediterranean.

The "Death Shark" will most definitely be used to protect and escort Israel's merchant marine fleet and civilian vessels in both the Middle East and throughout the world, say analysts. It was most probably used during Israel disengagement from Gaza, where it quietly neutralized terrorists both on land and in the water attempting to disrupt Israel's unilateral peace move.

The machine gun is a mini-Typhoon type, also developed by Rafael. The Typhoon system allows the gun to stay on target as the unmanned surface vehicle (USV) bounces across the waves. Developers said the pilot of the vessel would be an Israel Defense Forces officer. This officer would most likely be a trained field intelligence professional cooperating with Israel military, Shabak (domestic security) and the Mossad.

The officer who would command this drone from either a few miles or thousands would go through a one-week training course. A second "mission module operator" would be responsible for its mission - be it surveillance or offensive.
...
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Post by viktor »

sroy wrote:Moving forward...can we then export some Arjuns with downgraded features to smaller friendly countries? That should ensure the financial viability for the private players.
Good idea that one. Being a business minded person that I am, I would be the happiest man when we start exporting defence equipment to other countries big time. But I have some doubts. Which friendly countries would be interested in Arjun ? Its not something cheap like T-series from Russia which every Tom, Dick & Harry will purchase. Arjun is much more sophisticated and bigger. Smaller countries dont have the doctrine to accomodate Arjun. So IMHO Arjun exports are out, but we can sure export other IFVs using Arjun tech. India can always manage cost advantage due to relatively lower labor costs. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Post by JCage »

The ideal scenario will be if India assists other nations with their design programs and makes money off it, and supplies subsystems etc..
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Post by viktor »

@ JCage, that way our PSU & private sector can make real good money. Even setting up necessary infrastructure in host country will give good financial and diplomatic returns. More employment for our citizens and wider exposure coupled with growth of our defence industry will in turn contribute to attract best talents to the field of R&D. Revenue generated can be earmarked for further R&D, distributing the load among different players.
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Post by Zynda »

Apparantly that is called "Dark Shark":
Israel Defense Forces Navy Unleashes "Death Shark" Against Terrorism


Quote:
...
The unmanned speedboat is equipped with a remote-controlled machine gun capable of being operated with laser accuracy up to a range of 50 kilometers, reportedly the first of its kind in the world.

Private defense analysts who have studied photos of the "Death Shark" or what the IDF brands as the "Protector" state that the Rafael Industries weapon is equipped with at least four cameras, as well as a sonar or radar system and electro-optics capable of providing a three-dimensional image. The cameras are said to operate with the same distance and high definition as satellite cameras, being able to capture a licence plate number and the barrel of gun from a distance of 10 miles.

The nine-meter-long, rigid hull, inflatable vessel has been undergoing sea trials for a number of months. Israel Navy officials said it has "already drawn blood" but declined to elaborate. They stressed that the unmanned boat was an "all-Israel" assembly.
...
Developers also said the "Death Shark" could be used to ferry Israel and allied commandos, as well as contribute to anti-terrorist protection. Analysts say it could be used as the ultimate "suicide bomber" being able to carry a payload of undefined weapons against a ship, submarine or an enemy coastal military installation. The analysts suspect that the "Death Shark" has been around for at least a year, with hundreds deployed throughout the waters of the Middle East and Mediterranean.

The "Death Shark" will most definitely be used to protect and escort Israel's merchant marine fleet and civilian vessels in both the Middle East and throughout the world, say analysts. It was most probably used during Israel disengagement from Gaza, where it quietly neutralized terrorists both on land and in the water attempting to disrupt Israel's unilateral peace move.

The machine gun is a mini-Typhoon type, also developed by Rafael. The Typhoon system allows the gun to stay on target as the unmanned surface vehicle (USV) bounces across the waves. Developers said the pilot of the vessel would be an Israel Defense Forces officer. This officer would most likely be a trained field intelligence professional cooperating with Israel military, Shabak (domestic security) and the Mossad.

The officer who would command this drone from either a few miles or thousands would go through a one-week training course. A second "mission module operator" would be responsible for its mission - be it surveillance or offensive.
WOW! A superb product from Israel 8) Very sophisticated indeed. But ain't it going to be pretty expensive? We are talking about a lot of sensors here. Is it being offered to IN/CG?
-Zynda
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Post by khukri »

[quote="Zynda"][quote]
Apparantly that is called "Dark Shark":
Israel Defense Forces Navy Unleashes "Death Shark" Against Terrorism


Quote:
...
The unmanned speedboat is equipped with a remote-controlled machine gun capable of being operated with laser accuracy up to a range of 50 kilometers, reportedly the first of its kind in the world.

quote]
a machine gun with a range of 50kms??!!
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Post by JaiS »

Vick, I'll make sure that I buy a few of those cameras from Div's Camera Corporation ( DCC ) the next time. ;)

Cybaru and Sumeet, check out page four for a list of brochures which I have picked up, and yes EL/M-2052's brochure is among them. I will be posting them pretty soon.
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Post by Kersi D »

vina wrote:
JCage wrote:I havent read any report of MTU supplying newer powerpacks for the Arjun- the extra 100 hp- turbocharger thing seems to be the only issue that can fit.
As regards design data etc- MTU have been closely involved, sending folks
over to handle the earlier tendency to overheat.
No... GTRE modifying the original 1400 hp to 1500 hp doesnt sound right. It is not just enought to increase the boost. The torque curve changes, the piston, crank shaft, bearings and all the rest of the stuff have to be strengthened / modified to handle the increased power,also the torque curve will be peakier , with a bigger turbo lag. For engines with this sort of power range, there would also be some piston cooling arrangement (not something you will find on cars & truck engines) I would think, that will also need to be modified.. Too much work for just a 100 hp boost.. Would not be worth it..

In any case, just working with MTU for the cooling pack / radiator kind of thing wont give you design details on the engine to allow you to do the kind of work mentioned above.

If the 1500hp rating is correct, I would place my bet on an engine different from the original 1400hp MTU. Can someone who visited DefExpo throw some more light on it ?Maybe there was more details on a brochure or something beyond the info board ?
Frankly I am not sure whether the Arjun has a 1400 or 1500 hp engine. When I enquired about the EUROPAk ( 1500 hp ? ) the DRDO offcier said that thye are NOT considering it right now. Changing the engine in a tank (or an aircraft ) is not MS type of cut-nad-paste. It involves achnging a lot of systems. This change might come in Arjun Mk 3.

Kersi
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Post by Kersi D »

JCage wrote:
Kersi D wrote:The exisitng Arjun has a laser warning system
...btw please check ur rediffmail...

____________________________________________________________

No mail from you. My e mail ID is kersikdotiwalla@rediffmail.com
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ISRAELI STALLS contd.

Post by JaiS »

SPIKE ATGM STALL

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SPIKE FAMILY OF MISSILES

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TADIRAN - COMMUNICATION SOLUTIONS

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TAVOR ASSAULT RIFLE

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LARSEN & TOUBRO STALL

Post by JaiS »

FIN STABILIZER SYSTEM

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FOLDABLE OPERATOR CONSOLES

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HELO LANDING PAD 1

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HELO LANDING PAD INFOBOARD

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LARSEN & TOUBRO STALL CONTD.

Post by JaiS »

There was a video at L&T's stall demonstrating L&T's degaussing system for the Indian Navy. The following are snaps of that video.

L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 1

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 2

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 3

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 4

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 5

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 6

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 7

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 8

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 9

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 10

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 11

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 12

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 13

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 14

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 15

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 16

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L&T-DEGAUSSING SYSTEM FOR IN VIDEO-FRAME 17

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