Aero India 2007 - Photo Thread

Kumar
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Postby Kumar » 17 Feb 2007 11:29

Vick,

It is a large game with many board pieces. And journalists are probably the cheapest to afford. No one is saying they are the deciding factors. But they can act as cheap and useful pawns.

The bigger aim is to create a sustained distrust in public's mind about indigenous capabilities. The resultant inferiority complex can take generations to heal. We all know about the craze for 'phoren' goods by Indians. If this complex is entrenched then the decision makers of today or tomorrow also won't escape it completely.

If psy-war were as useless as you are implying, then we shouldn't see it being practiced so much.

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Postby rakall » 17 Feb 2007 11:31

Harry wrote:50 new images added to www.aeroindia.org


Harry -- the pic titles "Tejas's IFF system including LRUs and antennae".. the systems ahown are not for Tejas, but for the AEW&C.

Reg Jaguar model -- Is there any news reg ASRAAM being in IAF serive or any plans to procure it? If so - it is possible that it will be one of the AAM's that can equip Hawk AJT's.!!

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Postby Vick » 17 Feb 2007 11:39

As I've said before, the main reason why Indians look at phoren maal is because till very recently, Indian maal was next to crap in quality. When the Indian stuff gets better in quality and customer satisfaction is better, people will naturally line up for it.

The public has a distrust for the DRDO because of the incessant bad press, so? Does that stop the DRDO from developing PAD and AAD? Is the bad press responsible for killing the Trishul? Is public distrust of DRDO responsible for the IA not inducting the Arjun?

The Indian defence procurement system is not based on public opinion.

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Postby Vick » 17 Feb 2007 11:40

rakall wrote:Reg Jaguar model -- Is there any news reg ASRAAM being in IAF serive or any plans to procure it? If so - it is possible that it will be one of the AAM's that can equip Hawk AJT's.!!


I think one article mentioned ASRAAM as a posibility for the M2K upgrade.

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Postby JCage » 17 Feb 2007 13:50

Vick wrote:As I've said before, the main reason why Indians look at phoren maal is because till very recently, Indian maal was next to crap in quality. When the Indian stuff gets better in quality and customer satisfaction is better, people will naturally line up for it.


No, there is a piskological funda of "gora makes the best" behind it too. Keeping up with the joneses does affect many desis, and some of these do go into the services. I'd rather not say more..

The public has a distrust for the DRDO because of the incessant bad press, so? Does that stop the DRDO from developing PAD and AAD? Is the bad press responsible for killing the Trishul? Is public distrust of DRDO responsible for the IA not inducting the Arjun?

The Indian defence procurement system is not based on public opinion.


You are mistaken (unfortunately). Media campaigns are critical to stalling DRDOs proposal for funds at budget time, and they can cause problems for DRDO in terms of public image and recruitment. Dont sign off on the media campaigns, they are motivated, they are dirty and they do have an effect.

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Postby shiv » 17 Feb 2007 14:10

rakall wrote:
Reg Jaguar model -- Is there any news reg ASRAAM being in IAF serive or any plans to procure it? If so - it is possible that it will be one of the AAM's that can equip Hawk AJT's.!!


I saw the IAF markings on that ASRAAM carrying Jaguar model and asked the MBDA people about it. I specifically asked if the "model was an indicator os reality in terms of definite IAF service or just a mock up made in the hope that the IAF would order it"

The chap at the stall said that no firm orders had been placed. He did not want to tell me any details about the missile saying they "were classified" :shock: Lucky for me that he admitted that it was a missile and not a lightning rod. Since he could not recall that the Matra Magic was designated R 550 I suspect he was covering up ignorance in a far more sophisticated manner than the poor bloke in the OFB stall whom Merlin got irritated with.

Raj Malhotra
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Postby Raj Malhotra » 17 Feb 2007 14:11

Let us face some facts. Indian defence R&D and production is not upto the mark for a nation with 4th largest economy in the world i.e. India.

The biggest fault is that funding is tooo low. I recommend immediate hike by 3 times and long term hike by 10times stabilising at 0.5-1%% of GDP.

Drdo is as competent as any Govt department and make over is required to involve Pvt sector. Not because Pvt sector is something special but just because they are more flexible, can grease and also pay right salaries to retain the talent.

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Postby shiv » 17 Feb 2007 14:21

Raj Malhotra wrote: make over is required to involve Pvt sector. Not because Pvt sector is something special but just because they are more flexible, can grease and also pay right salaries to retain the talent.


That is EXACTLY what Aero India 2007 was all about - but you will see the story on DVD when I release it.

The only points I will make here are the statements made by two people - one of them a person at the Bharat Dynamics Ltd stall - who said that PSUs were increasingly being told that their products would have to be competitive with phoren, and for that the PSU had to start getting off their backsides and liaising with "end user" to come up with innovative and cost effective solutions.

The other point was made by one of the dozens of private company stall-wallahs - each supplying some "core" item or other.

The Government's new defence import policy is a "30% offset" meaning that if India imports 300 crores worth of arms, the arms supplier will have to source 30% of the value of that (about 100 crores) from private Indian suppliers

Hence the involvement if FICCI in Aero India 2007.

Only time will tell whether the private sector can cope.

Incidentally I had a long conversation with the BDL man regarding the Nag. The impression I got (from him) is that there is no MMW seeker. That ran into trouble and the developers decided that the world was moving ahead while they were buggering around trying to develop a double IIR/MMW seeker for Nag. It was decided that they would go ahead and perfect what they were capabale of and went on with th IIR - and that is what is reaching user trials now.

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Postby geeth » 17 Feb 2007 15:14

>>>So that begs the question, who might be behind the DRDO bashing? Who has the most to gain by India not pursuing Indian goods? The West, East, North, South?

It is the West and particularly the US. Because, the Russians oflate have been supplying things which nobody else would supply, and Indians cannot make it as of now. ofcourse they would also get orders for less sophisticated equipment as well, to sweeten it. They would also like to dump junk to us, if we are willing to take. India will be dependent on Russia for weapons systems (than the otherway round) for the forseeable future. Israelis are probably roped in to checkmate the Russians if they get too greedy.

Now for the Westerners, particularly US, they don't want to see India attain any decent level of military power, and are not interested in supplying sophisticated weapon systems. All they want to sell is inferior systems, or at best something inferior to what they have in their inventory. Nothing wrong with it - and nothing wrong if India turns to Russia for better equipment. If the Russians were not there, what is offered to India by western countries would be something similar to what pakis are getting now (atleast they are getting it free, but we would have been forced to pay through our nose).

So, the people who gains most by this DRDO bashing propaganda in the Desi media will mostly be US and its allies. Russians may be doing it, but Unkeel takes the cake.

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Postby mandrake » 17 Feb 2007 15:18

geeth wrote:>>>So that begs the question, who might be behind the DRDO bashing? Who has the most to gain by India not pursuing Indian goods? The West, East, North, South?
If the Russians were not there, what is offered to India by western countries would be something similar to what pakis are getting now (atleast they are getting it free, but we would have been forced to pay through our nose).
.


Could'nt have said it better! :eek:

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Postby Kersi D » 17 Feb 2007 18:34

geeth wrote:>>>So that begs the question, who might be behind the DRDO bashing? Who has the most to gain by India not pursuing Indian goods? The West, East, North, South?

.......


Now for the Westerners, particularly US, they don't want to see India attain any decent level of military power, and are not interested in supplying sophisticated weapon systems. All they want to sell is inferior systems, or at best something inferior to what they have in their inventory. Nothing wrong with it - and nothing wrong if India turns to Russia for better equipment. If the Russians were not there, what is offered to India by western countries would be something similar to what pakis are getting now (atleast they are getting it free, but we would have been forced to pay through our nose).

So, the people who gains most by this DRDO bashing propaganda in the Desi media will mostly be US and its allies. Russians may be doing it, but Unkeel takes the cake.



EVERYBODY GAINS

EXCEPT

EXCEPT. the indain artmed forces who have to use whatver shit that the babu has bought (based on kickbacks)

EXCEPT. the poor sods, the taqx payers like you and me who have to pay for babus' kickabsk plus the gred of teh arms supplier whatevrr be his size, shape, colour creed, religion.


I thInk what we need at this stage is an EMBARGO.

Yes NA EMBARGO

If the Western countyries refuse to supply "sophisticaed arms" to India, our armed forces will buy DRDO products form OFB or pvt. sector. I am sure at that stage our armed forces will coordinate with OFB and DRDO and others to have workable systems.

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Postby bala » 18 Feb 2007 01:14

If Piskology is where the Western world wants to beat us then they are in for a rude shock, especially with Indians. No amount of western media propaganda is going to cut it. They (the western media) are taking advantage of the confusion in leadership and other facts, but once India realizes the game, then the party is over. Quite similar to Russia, when the US pretended it was friend and ensnared it with the NATO. Putin put a stop to the charade.

There is a working model already in the Indian Armed Forces - the Indian Navy. They are showing the way towards indigenous production and capability while being open about induction of other nation's ware. The Army and the Airforce need to adopt this attitude. If you review the programs in the US, the Raptor was a joint venture between the US Airforce and arms producers like Boeing, Lockheed, with a colonel of the US Air Force heading the strategic plan. Both the Army and Airforce of India need to co-own the requirements phase of the product and work the issues with DRDO and private enterprise until completion. This is the proven path for many nations. No shortcuts here. It is as simple as identifying the crucial areas and planning for the future. At the same time they have to have realistic goals. Not everything needs to be best of the class from day one. Good enough is quite okay as a first, second step. Getting to be the best incrementally is the name of the game. When you get to be the best then you export the stuff to others.

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Postby Aditya_M » 18 Feb 2007 16:13

i've registered for an album on BR's site - but I'm being old that the limit is 1 MB.

ONE MB?!

Jagan
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Postby Jagan » 18 Feb 2007 19:13

Aditya_M wrote:i've registered for an album on BR's site - but I'm being old that the limit is 1 MB.

ONE MB?!


Check now - its 100 MB now..

rakall
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Postby rakall » 19 Feb 2007 14:51

ALH Dhruv taking a shower.

Image

rakall
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Postby rakall » 19 Feb 2007 14:54

Dhruv's in various states of make-up..


Image
Last edited by rakall on 19 Feb 2007 14:57, edited 1 time in total.

rakall
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Postby rakall » 19 Feb 2007 14:56

MKI's in the assembly line Harrysan already posted a version of this -- this is a slightly larger & clearer picture


Image

Himanshu
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Postby Himanshu » 19 Feb 2007 15:51


A Sharma
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Postby A Sharma » 20 Feb 2007 09:26


ajay_hk
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Postby ajay_hk » 20 Feb 2007 09:55


Jagan
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Postby Jagan » 20 Feb 2007 23:58

http://media.bharat-rakshak.com/aero/ma ... temId=8082
Sukhoi-30 detailed walkaround (yet another one)

http://media.bharat-rakshak.com/aero/ma ... temId=8178
HAL Tejas PV-3 Walkaround [KH2005]

http://media.bharat-rakshak.com/aero/ma ... temId=8275
HAL TD2 up close and personal

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Postby SaiK » 21 Feb 2007 05:11


shiv
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Postby shiv » 21 Feb 2007 08:15



This one is a bit of a joke. It's not "Bombardier" at all, it's Beriev Be 212 firefighting water bomber

Jagan
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Postby Jagan » 23 Feb 2007 01:20


John Snow
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Postby John Snow » 23 Feb 2007 04:23

Folks
Why is that Tornado GR4 was never considered by IAF , is it because Rambha performs the same role and is less costly?

avvipin
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Postby avvipin » 23 Feb 2007 04:34

IAF decided they would modify the jaguars to perform the same task(of ground strike).


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