Aero India 2009

kedar.karmarkar
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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby kedar.karmarkar » 11 Feb 2009 12:27

merlin wrote:
kedar.karmarkar wrote:Just did a quick and dirty upload of my pics.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/Aer ... I09-Kedar/


Neat pics. Are you using the 70-200 with your D700?


Thanx Merlin. Yep, using the above among other things.

kedar.karmarkar
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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby kedar.karmarkar » 11 Feb 2009 13:01

Album update with another set of Q'n'D uploads.

vicky_iyer
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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby vicky_iyer » 11 Feb 2009 13:05

maz wrote:Vicky Iyer, please check your PM.

Brilliant work from all the excellent photographers. Keep up the good work guys.


Hello Maz~

I will try my best to get the information you have requested.

Unfortunately I will not be able to witness the inaugural flypast today.

I will upload the photos/info over the weekend.

Thanks
-Vicky Iyer-

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby babbupandey » 11 Feb 2009 13:11

Arun_S wrote:Many camera's nowdays have external power input capability, so instead fo carrying 5 spare battery packs it is easier to carry just one battery and carry in pocket an external battery pack using ordinary cells to power the camara by cable connector. I did that last time where I had a regular 8 cell AA battery holder to which I soldered a linear regulator chip that gave a steady 7.2Volts to the camera, That kept the camara on and active for the whole day took only one set of AAsize NiMH cells. Try that gig with stocking spare original brand camera battries and you will likely pay for cost of the camera for the batteries!!.

I will have to miss this Aero India, but I certainyl look forward to more BRFites joining this Nationalistic Kafila.
Enjoy.


Sir, can you explain that to a layman? I am amazed how you managed to run a camera running for entire day with just one set (by one set, I assume you mean 2 pieces of cells).
Sorry for deviating off the topic.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby sum » 11 Feb 2009 18:04

Could anyone going to AI in the next days please confirm if there is a special bus service for Aero-India from the city?

If it is not present, will have to make alternate arrangements since going to bus stand on saturday and not finding any bus might create lots of problems.

Could not find any mention of such a service anywhere and hence, the question.

TIA.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby rakall » 11 Feb 2009 18:07

sum wrote:Could anyone going to AI in the next days please confirm if there is a special bus service for Aero-India from the city?

If it is not present, will have to make alternate arrangements since going to bus stand on saturday and not finding any bus might create lots of problems.

Could not find any mention of such a service anywhere and hence, the question.

TIA.



where r u leaving from?

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby sum » 11 Feb 2009 18:10

I stay in Old Bengaluru( jayanagar side) and am taking four of my "first time" friends with me( from different parts of B'luru). We were all assuming that the special aero service will be there. However, spanners might be thrwon in the works if we wake up on sat and find no service(given that there has been NO menion of that anywhere). Hence, the precautions.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby pyogi » 11 Feb 2009 18:19

Some more picture updates on the way.. as i process them
To start with The Eurofighter pilot seems to be saying Hello :-)
Image
Get the Hi res image here : http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3378/3271162635_e6166f6756_o.jpg
USAF F18
Image
Get the hi res image here :http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3446/3272009076_b4f428d04c_o.jpg

USAF F16
Image
Get the hi res image here http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3447/3272024288_803a7c21c4_o.jpg

For all the LCA/Tajas lovers!
My tribute to the team :-)
Image
Get the Hi Res image here: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3527/3271224925_b437f87272_o.jpg
Will keep updating my blog
--
Photoyogi
aeroindia blog : http://aeroindia09.blogspot.com
Last edited by pyogi on 11 Feb 2009 19:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby k prasad » 11 Feb 2009 18:49

X-posting from LCA thread..

No idea how the 1354 came on that slide, but it was there, but not on the same line....

Alternatively, it may have been 1354 Km and not Kmph.... in speed, note taking suffers... yes, I guess thats it.

Another thing, the Mach 1.6 is at 8000 m altitude.

LCA trainer will fly in about a month... they are extensively testing the Command aspects and conflict resoultion (between the 2 pilot commands) on the Ironbird rig.

Another thing is that full qualification tests of the LRUs are going on at full speed (I think he said 95% is done), but it is far more complex than anyone realized, and they have had to surmount major difficulties, and create novel testing solutions.

This is another reason they are looking at foreign collaboration, although he didn't mention it, and I wasn't able to ask (lack of time).

Mk2 Tejas design studies are 99% done, and prototype development will begin soon.

Future Testing tasks on LCA:

1. All weather trials (ongoing)
2. CLAW test at high alpha , high g and boundaries of operations
3. AoA to 25 deg
4. Weapons testing and release
5. Full qual tests on LRUs.



Coming to the IJT qualification envelope:

424 flights by PT1 and PT2.
Integration of A-55I engine on PT1 done
- FTB tests underway
- Integration tests underway

Speed envelope - flown & cleared for 750 kph (Design = 750 kph)
altitude = flown and cleared for 9 km (design = 9 km)
G = cleared for -1.5 to +5.4 G, flown to -0.5 to +4.8 G (design is -2.5 to +7 G)

Will post Subramanyams' notes in another post today, if possible, or when time permits...

If there is a comp in the BR stall, I can post it tomorrow.

Incidentally, Saab was a sponsor for the seminar,
Eurofighter CEO spoke.... sales pitch, but will put up some nos later.

Will post sad story of GTRE on teh Kaveri thread - they have got support of the other CCs, incl Saraswat and Gen Sundaram, who were quite vocal in their anger to the lack of funding... that is another story....

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Ravishankar » 11 Feb 2009 19:14

Since I will making my first visit to the AI, had a few questions.. .

1. Is there any parking space for visitors cars?
2. Is there any major fuss if you are carrying cameras - SLRs & lenses (Security checking etc.)

Appreciate response form vetrans.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby k prasad » 11 Feb 2009 19:26

Ok.... this is the GTRE story - (someone come up with sad music plz).... from the Aeroseminar.

An overview of the Kaveri situation was provided by the GTRE director, T. Mohan Rao, who was accompanied by his senior scientists. The hall was packed, and the language and tone of his speech was sadly self-depracating and pleading. Almost as if DRDO has also started losing faith - he had to explain whats going on and why its happening. Sad to see, but there are clear silver linings in the story.

1. He pointed out that the change in IAF requirements and the increase in all up wt by 2 tons killed the Kaveri as they knew it, simply because it could not in any way be able to achieve the new requirements... he was quite angry that they had been blamed for what was obviously not their fault, ie, a low-performing Kaveri for the updated reqs. Bypass Ratio is 0.16 to 0.18... he pointed out that if it had to meet the new stds, the bypass would have to be at least 0.35 to 0.45.

2. 4 Cores and 8 Kaveris built, 1800 hrs testing done.

Thrsut demonstrated: 4774 kgf dry (design value reached). 7000 kgf reheat (2.5-3% shortfall)

3. Pressure ratio - 21.5 overall.

Fan - 3 stage, 3.4 pressure ratio, Surge margin>20.
Compressor 6.4 pressure,Surge>23.
Combustor - efficiency >99%, high intensity annular combustor. Pattern factor of 0.35 and 0.14

Note: These are ACHIEVED values.

4. The present Kaveri will not power combat LCAs, although it will be fitted to an LCA within 9 months. The new program, which is the Kaveri with Snecma Eco core of 90kN will be used. The preslim design studies and configuration have beeen completed.

5.Birdhit requirements of 85% thrust after hit at 0.4-0.5 Mach have been shown and achieved.

6. He pointed out the major factor in delays being them not being given enough infrastructure and testing facilities - Govt has not given funds, babus have sat on them. Instead, they have had to go to CIAM in Russia and Anecom in Germany for tests.

He mentioned that this was the biggest problem - one of the issues they have was in engine strain and the blade throws - they tried to isolate all the causes for 3 yrs, but only when they took it to CIAM for the Non Intrusive Strain Measurement (NSMS) tests did they realize that there were excess vibrations of the 3rd order of engine frequency being developed.... imagine if the facility was there in india.

Then, the compressor tests also, it was only at the Anecom that they could see that the 1st 2 stages were surged by 20%, while the rest were "as dead as government servants" (his quote - shows how low on confidence they are i guess). He pointed out that that would have saved a lot of time and money if that facility was in india. They have since fixed the issue.

Then, the afterburner tests, (the much highlighted high altitude failure) at CIAM - the reqt is for 50% thrust boost over dry thrust at 88% efficiency. The K5 prototype failed in 2003, after working perfectly in the GTRE. They realized that they could not achieve lightup at high altitudes (Dry thrust worked ok).

They took anothe new engine block and the afterburner worked perfectly and has been certified to 15 km.

7. The good news..... they will conduct complete engine trials in CIAM in March. If these trials are successful (and they are highly confident), the Kaveri will be integrated on the LCA within 9 months.

The KADECU FADEC system with manual backup has also been fully certified.

8. The bad news again - The present requirements would need the core to pump out 15-20% more power, which is impossible... hence the eco. Not that there is anything wrong with the core.

He mentioned that otherwise, the Kaveri has met the original requirements, or will meet within the next month, and is good for all other uses except a "combat LCA" - ie, CAT, LIFT, LCA Trainer, etc.

9. When asked where we lack, he mentioned 4 key areas

a. BLISK - integrated single Blade and Disk
b. Single Crystal blades - he categorically said - We do not have that tech at all.
c. Thermal Barrier Coatings - TBC - very critical for high temp engine operation. A talk on this by an American Indian prof attracted a house full audience. He mentioned that this is highly critical and export controlled, so they dont have it.

The last two points were mentioned by Dir, DMRL as one of their areas of research, but I was not able to quiz him on it. PLEASE QUIZ ANY DMRL GUYS U MEET ON THIS.

Mohan Rao appealed that people should realize that this tech takes time, and money, and more importantly, willpower and support.... its not being given by foriegn nations, so if we have to develop, it needs support. This stance found strong support from Saraswat, Sundaram and Selvamurthy in the closing ceremony.

They are not looking at TVC just yet, and it is in the hands of other labs at the moment.

However, the ADE presentation on UCAVs showed a future Indian UCAV (2015) with no tail (MCA design), a non-conventional wingform, and a 3 axis TVC.

10. OK, some nos....

Fan - Successful tests at CIAM
Compressor: (nos in brackets are design values)

6 stage axial flow, 3 stage variable vanes with IGVs.
Corr. tip speed ~370 m/s
Inlet diam: 590 mm

Mass flow: 24.13 kg/s (24.3)
Pressure: 6.42 (6.38)
Efficiency: 85.4% (85%)
Surge %: 21.6 (20% designed)

Combustor:
Has undergone aero testing at CIAM
K8 V4 combustor is close to design.

Turbine:
Pressure = 3.6
Mass flow function= 1.1
Isentropic eff = 85%
Max. TET = 1700K

Is a success, has met design.

11. Future uses:

Navy - KMGT - 1 MW for small ships being developed, 5-6 MW KMGT is a sucess and runs on Diesel, instead of the usual kerosene aviation fuel.

The railways also wants a 7-8MW CNG run engine, which will be a challenge in terms of fuel supply, rather than teh combustion itself, which shouldn't be a problem.


Any qns???

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby k prasad » 11 Feb 2009 19:31

Ravishankar wrote:Since I will making my first visit to the AI, had a few questions.. .

1. Is there any parking space for visitors cars?
2. Is there any major fuss if you are carrying cameras - SLRs & lenses (Security checking etc.)

Appreciate response form vetrans.


1. Check ur ticket... there should be the parking area denoted.
2. No problem for cameras... but ticket sez need to ask exhibitor permission for photos (lol!)

P.S. I will be there tomorrow.... hope to meet the BRF jingos at the stall....

P.P.S. Lot of the directors were very appreciative of BR's work.... perhaps we should have a stall at the seminar also next time.

P.P.P.S.... there was a talk by a Tsagi designer on supercruise, and an American mag editor - all of them are in agreement that Supercruise in the present sit is useless simply coz it doesn't provide the amount of extra thrust reqd to evade SAM threats.

And unlike commonly thought, Supercruise isn't for long range, but for evading SAM threats without increasing IR signature. The TsAgi guy especially used the nos to prove why the F-22 supercruise isn't as effective as what was originally envisioned.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Surya » 11 Feb 2009 19:47

K prasad

thanks - sad - and depressing

Wish it could be written and added to SRR

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Rahul M » 11 Feb 2009 19:47

KP, thanks a lot. kudos !

one point though,

Thrsut demonstrated: 4774 kgf dry (design value reached). 7000 kgf reheat (2.5-3% shortfall)

design goals were 52 kN (= 5306 kgf) and 81 kN (=8265 kgf )
implying there is a shortfall of 10% in dry thrust and 15% in reheat thrust.

that's quite an amount !! although I guess it is not possible to improve on these figures with the materials handicaps you mentioned.


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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby K Mehta » 11 Feb 2009 20:12

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=47418
7th Aero India 2009 gets off to a spectacular start next edition from February 9-13, 2011- PIB release

The seventh edition of 'Aero India' got off to a spectacular start at the Yelahanka air base in Bengaluru, today. Breathtaking mavoeuvres by Indian and foreign pilots in their fighter jets streaking and tumbling across the sky included the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) 'Tejas', F/A-18 Super Hornet, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-16 'Falcon', Russian Mig-35D and IAF's Su-30 MKI, Jaguars and Mirage-2000. Five of the newly inducted 'Hawk' advance jet trainers built by HAL and four LCA 'Tejas' also flew in impressive arrowhead formations at the display leaving the spectators spellbound.

The aerial display began with three Mi-8 helicopters trooping the national tricolour, IAF ensign and the Aero India flag. This was followed by a rarely seen eclectic 'mix formation' of an Advance Light Helicopter (ALH) leading the pair of Kiran trainer aircraft and Su-30 MKIs displaying the versatility and the ability of the three different categories of flying machines to fly in a formation together. The other mix formations included a vic of an AN-32 and a pair of Dorniers followed by a display of air-to-air refuelling of two Mirage-2000 from an IL-78 MKI. The first prototype of 'Saras' built indigenously at the National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) undertook several sharp aerial manouvres displaying its versatility in air.

And in a befitting finale both the formation air displays by the Surya Kiran Aerobatics Team (SKAT) and the 'Sarang' helicopter team proved once again that they remain ever the show-stoppers at any air show. However, the true 'show-stealer' was the solo-display of the indigenously built Tejas, touted as the world's smallest modern fighter aircraft. The effortless manouevres drew loud applause from the onlookers.

Aero India 09 was formally inaugurated by Defence Minister, Shri AK Antony in the presence of the Ministers of State for Defence - Shri Rao Inderjit Singh and Shri MM Pallam Raju, Karnataka Chief Minister, Dr. BS Yediyurappa, Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal FH Major, Navy Chief, Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Defence Secretary Shri Vijay Singh, DG CII, Shri C Banerjee, Chairman HAL, Shri Ashok Baweja and other top dignitaries. Speaking at the occasion, Shri Antony said despite the economic recession, there was no question of scaling down the defence expenditure, or compromising with the ongoing acquisition programmes. With defence industry now open to 100 per cent Indian private sector participation, and FDI up to 26 per cent, the government's emphasis is on public-private partnership in the defence industry, he said. Shri Antony also announced that the eighth Aero India will be held from February 9-13, 2011 at Bengaluru.

Earlier welcoming the delegates, participants, exhibitors and guests, Secretary (Defence Production), Shri Pradeep Kumar told that the five-day international defence exposition received an overwhelming response from global aerospace majors and aviation industry. The new initiatives incorporated in this edition has facilitated online bookings for more than 500 business-to-business meetings even as the display area was substantially increased to encompass 44000 sqm. A major focus was also aimed at student participation with special halls earmarked for IAF pilots to interact with them. Also students from IIT Mumbai, Kanpur, Chennai and Vellore Institute of Technology would be actively interacting in the aero show.

Held biennially at Bengaluru, this year the mega event has 592 exhibitors from 25 countries participating at the show. Of these 303 are from overseas and 289 from home. The participating countries include UK, USA, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, India, Italy, Ireland, Israel, Malaysia, Norway, Poland, Romania, Russia, Singapore, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Netherlands and Ukraine. China is participating at this year's Air Show for the first time.

TKS/PM/RAJ

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Aditya G » 11 Feb 2009 20:13

rahuldevnath wrote:Walkaround shot of F-16IN

Image


Which country's marking does the F-16IN have?

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby K Mehta » 11 Feb 2009 20:15

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=47173
To facilitate easy purchase of tickets, 24 locations at SBI outlets and Café Coffee Day :shock: have been selected in Bangalore.

Which CCD outlets sell the tickets?

Aditya G wrote:Which country's marking does the F-16IN have?

UAE, thats the only country IIRC with Blk-60 falcons.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Jagan » 11 Feb 2009 21:29

Image
MiG Pilot explaining stuff to Air Marshal (Retd) Harish Masand

Trivia - Air Marshal Masand was one of the first MiG-29 Squadron Commander (of No.28 Sqn) (the other being the CO of No.47 Sqn). Naturally being the CO he was the display pilot with the MiG-29 in the late 80s.

He was regularly flying aerobatics on MiG-29s even as an Air Commodore when he was base commander of Pune.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby ramana » 11 Feb 2009 21:53

K. Prasad thanks for the info on the GTRE saga. So it was the excess weight of the bird that wounded it. A lesson learned is to ensure there is program oversight of both the a/c and the engine. And the lack of proper testing facilities and shortage of funding to get the stuff tested abroad also were lacunae.

Actually they can now develop a roadmap of what is needed and pursue it. Its not GTRE fault. They need good press to counter the bad impression.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby vina » 11 Feb 2009 22:23

k prasad wrote:Ok.... this is the GTRE story -


Thanks Prasad. That was great info . Just look at the DDM tomorrow to see how this info is mauled out of shape and stretched in unbelievable ways.

That apart, I had been saying here in BR, that from all indications (primarily lack of bad news), the GTRE HAVE a working engine. I really feel vindicated. They have licked the fundamental engineering problems . Now what they need is better materials and that is not their job, but the research labs. Hats off to them. They have done their job.

We now have the engineering experience and hard earned skills to successfully develop a modern jet engine

It is incredible what they have achieved. They have come up with a jet engine that meets its design objective and largely competitive with what is out there at a cost that is incredibly small compared to what any other engine program anywhere in the world!.

1. He pointed out that the change in IAF requirements and the increase in all up wt by 2 tons

DDM cant even get this part correct. :(( :(( . A

killed the Kaveri as they knew it, simply because it could not in any way be able to achieve the new requirements... he was quite angry that they had been blamed for what was obviously not their fault, ie, a low-performing Kaveri for the updated reqs. Bypass Ratio is 0.16 to 0.18... he pointed out that if it had to meet the new stds, the bypass would have to be at least 0.35 to 0.45.
[quote ]4. The present Kaveri will not power combat LCAs, although it will be fitted to an LCA within 9 months. [/quote]
Great news. You need to flight test it and go the whole hog in gaining experience.

6. He pointed out the major factor in delays being them not being given enough infrastructure and testing facilities - Govt has not given funds, babus have sat on them. Instead, they have had to go to CIAM in Russia and Anecom in Germany for tests.

He mentioned that this was the biggest problem - one of the issues they have was in engine strain and the blade throws - they tried to isolate all the causes for 3 yrs, but only when they took it to CIAM for the Non Intrusive Strain Measurement (NSMS) tests did they realize that there were excess vibrations of the 3rd order of engine frequency being developed.... imagine if the facility was there in india.

Then, the compressor tests also, it was only at the Anecom that they could see that the 1st 2 stages were surged by 20%, while the rest were "as dead as government servants" (his quote - shows how low on confidence they are i guess). He pointed out that that would have saved a lot of time and money if that facility was in india. They have since fixed the issue.


That is the problem with India's approach. We are not willing to throw money where it is needed. Granted, those test facilities are incredibly expensive. But without that it is impossible to come up with an engine. Ok,even if you dont want to invest inhouse, they should penny pinch in using foreign test facilities and have a generous budget for that!. They wont do both and that is the problem. Much of the LCA's project cost and any new venture in a place like ISRO would go towards infrastructure costs for testing and desig!. That is a fact of life and we need to invest in those for the future as a national facilities!

Any qns???


Yes.
8. The bad news again - The present requirements would need the core to pump out 15-20% more power, which is impossible... hence the eco. Not that there is anything wrong with the core.


If the current core is working well, wouldnt they try to scale the core to get more power , or is the 15-20% range beyond what can be got from scaling and the efficiency losses would mandate a new core design ?.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby ramana » 11 Feb 2009 22:51

Vian, My thinking is the current core is putting out all it can and they need new core. BTW one of our wise people had a long session with GTRE folks a couple of years back and had told us about this problem. The core design cant put out more as it will lead to instability.

Atleast they have the path forward.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Raj Malhotra » 11 Feb 2009 23:25

RE kprasad


Have the testing instruments and facilities been set up now or we are still dependant on Russia and Germany?

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AI - 09 PR Site

Postby manish » 11 Feb 2009 23:25

Double Post - damn, not my day!
Last edited by manish on 11 Feb 2009 23:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby manish » 11 Feb 2009 23:28

Ah, I feel sad that I won't be able to visit this time around...

Anyways, sorry if someone has already posted this, but on the official PR site of AI - 09 they have a bunch of presentations, videos and images for download.

Here is the image gallery - 3 sets of Tejas pics(General/at Leh/Night Flying -many have been already seen) nicely rolled into zip archives and some small UAVs made by a Tata - funded co named Aurora:
http://www.prdomain.com/mediaroom/aeroindia/ig_index.html

There is a presentation section with a whole bunch of Defence PSU brochures for download, including an ADA brochure for Tejas:
http://www.prdomain.com/mediaroom/aeroindia/presentations_index.html

Finally, a video gallery that has a 27.9 MB video of Tejas and a faulty link to some video by the aforementioned UAV manufacturer:
http://www.prdomain.com/mediaroom/aeroindia/videos_index.html

Mods, please delete if already posted.

PS:Hit the wrong button earlier and ended up creating a new thread. Mods please delete the other thread, sorry for the trouble.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Sontu » 11 Feb 2009 23:30

Still I am happy to read following line that Kaveri is not dead yet and we have a chance to survive it..with Snecma Eco core.

I heard IAF/MOD rejected this co-development path earlier...case of DDM or what ?

4. The present Kaveri will not power combat LCAs, although it will be fitted to an LCA within 9 months. The new program, which is the Kaveri with Snecma Eco core of 90kN will be used. The preslim design studies and configuration have been completed.


That means we are getting an opportunity to fill the gaps on those tech areas where, we do not have the technology developed..yet. So let's take this opportunity to learn and then later develop/build our own some time in the future.

Regards,

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Kakarat » 11 Feb 2009 23:33

manish wrote:Ah, I feel sad that I won't be able to visit this time around...

Anyways, sorry if someone has already posted this, but on the official PR site of AI - 09 they have a bunch of presentations, videos and images for download.

Here is the image gallery - 3 sets of Tejas pics(General/at Leh/Night Flying -many have been already seen) nicely rolled into zip archives and some small UAVs made by a Tata - funded co named Aurora:
http://www.prdomain.com/mediaroom/aeroindia/ig_index.html

There is a presentation section with a whole bunch of Defence PSU brochures for download, including an ADA brochure for Tejas:
http://www.prdomain.com/mediaroom/aeroindia/presentations_index.html

Finally, a video gallery that has a 27.9 MB video of Tejas and a faulty link to some video by the aforementioned UAV manufacturer:
http://www.prdomain.com/mediaroom/aeroindia/videos_index.html

Mods, please delete if already posted.

PS:Hit the wrong button earlier and ended up creating a new thread. Mods please delete the other thread, sorry for the trouble.


Thank you

The Night Flight pictures include one with full afterburner
Last edited by Kakarat on 11 Feb 2009 23:47, edited 1 time in total.

jaladipc
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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby jaladipc » 11 Feb 2009 23:37

The recent reports all mention the lack of technology to get hands on single crystal blades which can withstand a whole lot of pressures and extreme temperatures for a maximum period of operation.

If my memory stands correct , a way back i read a report which is not DDM that DRDO guys overcome the hurdle.The report did mentioned that a hifi indian private sector did helped the DRDO all way along to bring up the product to be used in Kaveri.
The most important fact here is, becos the particular X private organisation spent an ample amount of funds to develop the needed SC ,it simply asked for a niche in the manufacturing of the Kaveri (while IAF had a requirement of more than 100+ A/C)
and our honest bafoon babuss didnt accepted that as it would drill a hole in the public sectors final revenue.And the heart breaking news is that the X company being so much patriotic took the similar kind of shots all the time.While it spends its own sweat money for the R&D to bring up these defence products, these public sector undertakings are demanding them for TOT of the R&Died products. I am sure some one might have got an idea abt the prestigious company.But i dont want to name it here. :-?

Unless the ideology of this sick gov changes, we have to go through all these kinda issues and menace.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby SaiK » 11 Feb 2009 23:38

scaling the core means, it has be Kaveri 2.. correct? and we are to collaborate for that anyway (rfp is floated). again, going by the dimension, this I asked quite a while ago to the turbofan/jet performance gurus, that should the thrust increase by scaling the core including increasing the core length. does length plays any important role.

404
# Length: 154 in (3,912 mm)
# Diameter: 35 in (889 mm)
Kaveri :
# Length: 137.4 in (3490 mm)
# Diameter: 35.8 in (910 mm)


:?:

btw the core is every except the turbo fan, inlet vanes, and other housing and control circuits and units? then snecma with 27.5" would fit in Kaveri.. but, sounds like they have to either match the blades for 35 in space or reduce the chamber diameter to get the right thrust.

what i clearly see affecting Kaveri is:
1. lack of expertise
2. lack of funds
3. drain of brains
4. right management techniques
5. politics


we can do get 1, by paying big bucks to EADS and Snecma.. but in turn, if it does not help the rest of the issues, then we are not re-inventing for indigenization but increasing a dependency that would last for a century if no correction happens.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby rahuldevnath » 11 Feb 2009 23:52

Some more pics of LCA. Not good, but it seems LCA has it's cult status here! :D

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image



This was suppose to be the my favorite one of the LCA lot, alas got wasted.. all thanks to that $^$#&%$#& pole! :(



Image

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby manish » 11 Feb 2009 23:56

Kakarat wrote:
Thank you

You are welcome :)
Below is a sample taken from the link I posted above.

Image


http://www.prdomain.com/mediaroom/aeroindia/ig_index.html

I found this to be nice, the HAS lends an incredible touch to the pic, IMHO.
The Leh set has some more nice close ups like the one above :)
There are some nice A2A shots taken from IAF chase planes as well in the other 'General' set, almost sure to please a jingo's heart.

Added later:
Do check out the video link to Tejas, I just finished watching it: loads of info there. May be the some of the Old Mullahs may not find something new in it, but lots of info for the Average Abdul out there, compiled together by DRDO itself so will serve as a handy reference as well. Lotsa CAD/CAM/CFD footage, shots of the weapon integration and other labs, short informative chats with Air Cmde Rohit Varma and other test pilots, the works! Highly recommended. Length is 9:36 seconds, 27.9MB in the WMV format.

Ah, and did I mention that there is some interesting footage of integration of LDP etc onto the Tejas, complete with time stamp and date! :eek: :eek: .
Also included is some footage of R-73E missile firing, HUD images :eek: and take offs from Leh air field.

But for some strange reason, DRDO has chosen to play Green Day's Boulevard of Broken Dreams in the background at the beginning - I hope it wasn't some jingo DRDO engineer's idea of showing disappointment at the public/IAF's attitude towards the whole Tejas project? :lol:
http://www.prdomain.com/mediaroom/aeroindia/Registered_companies/DRDO/videos/tejas.zip

Regards,
Manish
Last edited by manish on 12 Feb 2009 00:35, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Sukumar » 12 Feb 2009 00:11

Aditya G wrote:
rahuldevnath wrote:Walkaround shot of F-16IN

Image


Which country's marking does the F-16IN have?


Thats an F-16F Block 60 of the UAE Air Force. The UAE paid for the complete cost of development and will get a royalty if the IAF buys the F-16IN which is based on this plane.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Jagan » 12 Feb 2009 00:12

great find manish!

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby manish » 12 Feb 2009 00:17

Jagan wrote:great find manish!

Thank you Jagan saar! I do remember seeing some of the pics being posted on BRF earlier, but not all.
Do check out the video though, gurus like you will catch something really striking out of it I am sure. It even has footage from the hi - tech NFTC testing and monitoring facility described in Ajai Shukla's earlier report, complete with arrays of PCs with LCDs :lol: running Win XP :eek: .

Regards,
Manish
Last edited by manish on 12 Feb 2009 00:33, edited 1 time in total.

Surya
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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Surya » 12 Feb 2009 00:24

Wow - manish - how in the hell did you find that.

Hardened shelter and all

awesome find

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Jagan » 12 Feb 2009 01:02

manish wrote:

Finally, a video gallery that has a 27.9 MB video of Tejas and a faulty link to some video by the aforementioned UAV manufacturer:
[url] .


You tubed - the music is guaranteed to give you a headache
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRf4Xr_G6Lk

manish
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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby manish » 12 Feb 2009 01:15

Jagan wrote:
manish wrote:

Finally, a video gallery that has a 27.9 MB video of Tejas and a faulty link to some video by the aforementioned UAV manufacturer:
[url] .


You tubed - the music is guaranteed to give you a headache

Thanks Jagan, I wanted to do it, but I did not have access to the required bandwidth to do that. Thank you.
BTW at least in some short sections, they had the sense to cut out the pathetic background score and allowed the F404 to sing :) - and thank God for that.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Arun_S » 12 Feb 2009 01:58

babbupandey wrote:
Arun_S wrote:Many camera's nowdays have external power input capability, so instead fo carrying 5 spare battery packs it is easier to carry just one battery and carry in pocket an external battery pack using ordinary cells to power the camara by cable connector. I did that last time where I had a regular 8 cell AA battery holder to which I soldered a linear regulator chip that gave a steady 7.2Volts to the camera, That kept the camara on and active for the whole day took only one set of AAsize NiMH cells. Try that gig with stocking spare original brand camera battries and you will likely pay for cost of the camera for the batteries!!.

I will have to miss this Aero India, but I certainyl look forward to more BRFites joining this Nationalistic Kafila.
Enjoy.


Sir, can you explain that to a layman? I am amazed how you managed to run a camera running for entire day with just one set (by one set, I assume you mean 2 pieces of cells).
Sorry for deviating off the topic.


In the last Aero India 07 I used Panasonic DMC-FZ7 camera with 12 X zoom, it has a rechargeable 7.2V battery pack of 0.71 AH( AmpHour) capacity. The Camera has a port where I can plug in external DC power input at 8.4V.

So I took a regular battery holder for 8 AA size cells, and loaded ordinary 7 NiMH rechargeable cells of 2.8AH capacity (I.e. 4 times the capacity of the standard camera battery). The NiMH cell generate 1.2V output so the 7 cells give an output of 8.4V. But since a freshly charged NiMH cells has a higher voltage (typical 1.4 V) that would result in more than the 8.4V specified for the camera; so I had to put a commonly available voltage regulator chip to ensure the battery pack delivered 8.4V or lower voltage. I soldered the small (4x3 mm) voltage regulator, 2 resistors and one capacitor in one small (5x15mm) PCB and stowed the PCB in the empty 8th battery compartment. Connected this "Dayhaati" (rustic) battery pack to the camera with a 4 ft long wire and a round connector that fits into camera input.

This contraption cost me ~ Rs 100 (not including the cost of AA rechargeable cells) and it gave my camera 3.5 AmpHr battery capacity every morning. I never had to use my spare set of AA cells (that I carried in standby), but they gave me comfort that I will not run out of juice any single day.

I continue to use this external battery pack till today and never bought any spare camera battery for the DMC-FZ7.

This contraption will work for any camera that allows external DC power input. I can provide you the circuit and construction photos; and if your camera voltage is different from 8.4 Volt I can easily adjust the value of resistors to ensure the regulator will output the correct voltage.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby maz » 12 Feb 2009 02:42

Arun saab

Do share plans of your brilliant battery pack.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby putnanja » 12 Feb 2009 03:23

Retired Air Marshal's aerobatic skills

Air Marshal (retd) Harish Masand who flew the Russian MiG-35 fighter aircraft here on Wednesday, did some breathtaking aerobatic manoeuvre over the Yelahanka skies. Along with Russian Aircraft Corporation (RAC) MiG test pilot Mikhail Belyaev, as the captain or first pilot, Masand -- a 'customer' co-pilot performed the 'Tailslide' 'Cobra', an 8-G turn and a 'high angle of attack'.

Alexy Fedorov, President RAC MiG presented Masand with a certificate for undertaking the demonstration flight along with a souvenir.

The flamboyant former IAF fighter pilot, who is known for his superb flying skills in air force circles was the first commanding officer of an IAF MiG-29 squadron. He was awarded the Vir Chakra for shooting down a Pakistani F-86 Sabre jet during the 1971 war.


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