Aero India 2009

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Philip » 21 Feb 2009 12:56

If we're going to export radars,then ideally they should be part of a whole system (aircraft,SAM system,etc.),as they will be less attractive if tried to be sold in isolation.A country that supplies its own radar as part of a whole package will have the advantage.For example,if our radars/avionics are sold along with the an Indian aircraft like the LCA (in the future) ALH,or part of the Akash SM system,it has a better chance.As long as we are acquiring foreign raadars for the LCA.SU-30MKI,etc.ourselves,we will be able to sell radars mainly in deals like that with SL,to smaller countries where price and politics is also a factor.

The growing scale of sophisticated indigenous avionics,etc. that is being developed and installed on foreign aircraft like the SU-30MKI,etc.,however indicates that a stronger push is made behind these efforts especially as we have several new programmes where right from the start Indian eqpt. could be planned for and developed,as with the case of the 5th-gen fighter.Here Russian experience in aerodynamics,engines and weaponry could be very well meshed with our skills in software and avionics.Aerospace is going to be the key industry in the country that will propel it to the status of an advanced nation and with careful planning and sustained focus and thrust,it will lead Indian industry into a new dimension altogether.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby k prasad » 21 Feb 2009 13:50

merlin wrote:Incidently Ashlesha was monitoring the flying displays and I saw the track display (not real time but recorded from the previous day). Was explained the various tracks - three closely spaced ones were the tanker and two aircraft being refueled (or atleast connected to the refueling pod), aircraft in landing pattern at the nearby Devanahalli airport, aircraft taking off from there and from AFS Yellahanka, displaying aircraft etc. It has 10 stacked beams (IIRC) for height detection and the IFF antenna in on the rear face (whole assembly mounting the antennas rotates).

Incidentally that was the first time I saw actual tracks on a radar display.


Very interesting description Merlin - you're very luck indeed.

Incidentally, the number of beams is 7 to be exact.

Kartik wrote:I had a question to ask regarding the LCA AESA radar- AW&ST in its latest issue claims that EADS has been approached to provide an AESA radar for the LCA Mk.2 based on the work being done for the Typhoon..from your reports, it seems that DRDO wants to do it on its own.

did you hear anything about EADS role in the development of an AESA for the LCA Mk.2 ? the first time that people spoke of an EADS sourced AESA was in Feb, 2008, but it didn't resurface for a while till AW&ST had an entire article with a picture of a AESA mockup.


I didn't hear specifically about EADS providing a Mk.2 radar. However, there was talk about having consultancy from abroad, and/or using some components from other radars till our own versions were developed - I have mentioned this as the probability that we may use Israeli or other TR modules for the AESA for some time till our own versions get ready.

Note that some of the contenders on the MMRCA project have started offering technological sweeteners seeing how the LCA program has become stronger... this was something that was visibly absent till about a year ago, except for the talk about Dassault offering to integrate Kaveri. Hence, we shouldn't get confused between these people offering technology for us, and us asking it from them.

Right now, we are looking to see how we can use the technology from the MMRCA for our own programmes... however, that shouldnt be confused with thinking that indigenous efforts will be swept aside. LRDE is confident about the AESA, and I dont think EADS will even think about trying to snatch it away.

SaiK wrote:
k prasad wrote:Thanks... also check out my phtostream for pics of the LCA arrestor hook, and the AEW radar mockup and inside it also.

More tomorrow....


this one?


Yup... thats the LCA Navy arrestor hook mockup. Sorry about the reflection. It was the only angle i could get a decent shot from.

Dileep wrote:
- The Radar will also allow the Tejas to be terrain aware (i do not know what exactly this means, but it may be SAR mode. Additionally, note that others in the LCA project have talked about automatic terrain navigation for the Mk.2. I suspect that this is a means to that end).

Looks like the plan is to split the beam and point a small one downward and get the ground map. Not real SAR, but just ranging. That is good enough for the MC to fly the plane.


Well, AESA Radars will have multiple beams, and this means that some beams will be used in this role - this is the basis of multirole operation with interleaved modes - some beams will do an air volume search, others will do ground search. If targets are detected, some beams will keep locked onto them and track them.... thats the idea.

I think SAR is another mode that they are looking at on the Mk2 AESA. I see no reason why it will not be there, given that modern AESAs have it already. IIRC, Varadarajan did mention something about SAR modes also during the previous conference. So I do think it will be included. If so, it will work really well for automatic terrain navigation.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby sum » 21 Feb 2009 13:51

sunilUpa wrote:^^^Wow!

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/Aer ... d.jpg.html

Garud with INSAS- scope.

Garud snipers at AI??

Sad that i missed to sight of one of these guys!!! :( :x

Was this some kind of HRT/storming demo just for journos (going by the pics of masked Garuds trying to enter a building)?

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby k prasad » 21 Feb 2009 14:15

sum wrote:Garud snipers at AI? Sad that i missed to sight of one of these guys!!! :( :x


Lol Sum... I think thats the idea of all that camoflage!!! to remain unseen...

sum wrote:Was this some kind of HRT/storming demo just for journos (going by the pics of masked Garuds trying to enter a building)?


No... i think this was normal ops. I did notice sharpshooters on the nearby buildings, and I think they were also on the opposite side hangers. Am sure that they were Garuds.


On a related note... are we sure that that is an insas?? the flash suppressor looks similar, but the exposed part of the furniture is gray, and looks very different.

In fact, I'd think that it was a Galatz rifle... notice the shape of the fore-grip, just behind the front iron sights.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby sum » 21 Feb 2009 14:18

Lol Sum... I think thats the idea of all that camoflage!!! to remain unseen...

:mrgreen:
I thought that the Sniper's pics were related to the "storming a building" exercise of the garuds and was being done in the open....

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Akshut » 21 Feb 2009 15:41

Some more pics of display models(I mean the non-living ones 8) )....

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Last edited by Akshut on 21 Feb 2009 19:42, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Akshut » 21 Feb 2009 15:55

Continued....

Dhruv Weaponary....

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby k prasad » 21 Feb 2009 16:00

OK, one more precis from AeroSeminar

Aerospace Markets and Trends - 2020
- Yair Ramati,
Corporate VP, IAI

Assessing teh Aviation industry, even for 10 years is extremely difficult due to the non-linear processes, market trends and teh technology revolutions involved in it. Tech revolutions rapidly percolate into the market, and cause unexpected growth.

One feature in the future aviation business is that there is no room for small businesses at the macro level - if your company is worth less than 1 bn USD, dont even think about making your own aircraft - stick to subsystem and component manufacture. Or even better, get out of the industry.

The national trends for the future 10 years are that the US companies will remain on top. With US will continue to give 2.5% of their GDP for R&D, they can make all the tech jumps. LM, Boeing, N-G, BAe and Raytheon will remain the top 5 companies in the business.

The Russian industry will see some stability - Consolidation will continue, and the budget will triple by 2020.

SE Asia and S Asia will become major drivers in the growth of industry.

To see a general trend in the aviation markets, we note that the average global GDP growth is around 3%... US will grow around 1.5-2%, Europe around 1%, and the developing countries around 5-6% average - this means that by 2020, the world GDP would have increased by 33%.

However, given teh present situation, it will be extremely difficult for new aircraft programs to get financing, especially in the civilian sector. many airlines have gone out, and even the ones that are there are struggling. Upto 50% of order backlogs may evaporate, leaving manufacturers in the lurch.

Oil price and Aluminium price drops have actually been counter-productive - the low cost of oil in fact justifies the use of old, less fuel efficient aircraft, which would otherwise have been grounded or replaced with high oil prices in place. There has been a 60% drop in Aluminium prices.

Coming to the Military market trends:

UAVs:

- 4 bn dollar market today - will grow to 20 bn by 2020.
- Rapid growth expected
- ~55 bn in sales in the 2010-2020 period
- Huge opportunities for tactical UAVs - operating at the Division and Battalion levels, large scale procurements are foreseen
- Civilian and Paramilitary market will also bloom - growth is already being seen, but will explode in coming years, as more and more applications get added.
- US will continue to dominate the market, with a 33% share of the total market.
- IAI is looking at selling almost 2000 UAVs per year (tactical esp.), with special focus on MALE UAVs.

UAV Technology - Primary drivers are:
- Size and sensor performance
- Data links to intell and attack systems
- attack capability
- flight time and endurance
- survivability
- reliability and affordability

UCAVs:
- R&D efforts are being undertaken by the P5 nations, such as China's "Dark Sword" program and other black programs.
- Air Superiority is NOT a leading requirement.
- Tasks and capabilities that are attractive are - Long range, long endurance, A/G capabilities, Intell gathering capabilities, and low Signature
- UCAVs can be divided into two groups based on MTOW - Low weight - 5-10 tons, and high 25+ tons.

Combat Aircraft:

- The current market size is around $7 bn (150 a/c per yr).
- This will increase only moderately to $10 bn in 2020 {{personally, I think it will be closer to 15 bn or so, given the large number of replacements coming up, and the higher cost of an aircraft - but that is offset by lower procurement numbers}}
- US will dominate with a 50% share... EU will come second with a 20% share. Russia will probably have a 20+% market share (the Russians themselves predicted only around 15-16% in their talk)
- JSF will dominate in modern countries by 2020.
- Asia will mainly look for hi-low mixes, with hi going to US or EU, and the low tech being serviced by Russia.


The requirements for modern aircarft are:
- Versatility
- IFF
- PGMs
- All weather operation
- Independent Target collection
- Data networking - MANDATORY
- Data fusion - MANDATORY
- AESA radar - MANDATORY

Crew:
- US will continue to stick to single seaters.
- EU will stick to dual seaters
- The rest will go for mixed crew sizes


- Stealth will not continue to be a major requirement for US. Instead, with the rise in LIC (low intensity conflicts), they will look for low cost and low maintenance.
- Additionally, A2A and maneuverability will reduce in significance (although they will by no means be unimportant - just not critical).
- The reliability, Availability and Lifetime costs will gain importance (LICs again).

Helicopters:
- Market will increase to a small extent
- Armed helos will compete with UAVs, and the market for these may reduce somewhat, as UCAVs start doing operations that these are doing.

Cargo & military transport:
- No significant growth
- 50 a/c per yr ($4 bn) to 50 a/c per yr ($5 bn) in 2010.
- However, the IFR tanker market will grow significantly.
- There is substantial room and opportunity for a medium size jet transporter to take the middle ground between Il-76 and the C-130 areas - faster, long range operations

Missiles:

In the 1940s, a V2 rocket was 7 times more expensive than an a/c with 10 times worse accuracy. Thus, the a/c still had relevance

However, by 2010, the accuracy of a missile will be on par with that of air-launched munitions. The cost will significantly drop - while a/c will cost 50-150 million a piece, missiles will only cost 0.5-2 million each.

SAM market:
- Will double in size from 2.5 to 5 bn
- BMD systems will become important drivers for growth.
- MRSAMs will reduce, while LRSAMs will grow, as their minimum range also reduces, and they become as capable in the MRSAM role as well.
- Eastern bloc replacements will be a huge market.
- The driver will the procurement of reasonably priced LRSAMs with lower minimum range.

Drivers/ Features:
- capably against stealth UAVs, missiles, and other LO threats (<0.1 m2 RCS)
- Full integration in the C4ISR infrastructure
- low flying
- lower fratricide rate
- affordability

A2G munitions:
- Affordability a main criterion
- Bunker busters will become very important.

PGMs:
- Loitering capability
- Guided artillery and rocket projectiles will also come on the scene in a big way
- Bomblet market will reduce mainly due to the political impact of their use.

AWACS:
- Will grow
- The drivers will be integrating IMINT, AEW and SIGINT on a single large platform, or integrating IMINT and SIGINT on smaller platforms
- There is a big scope for small AWACS mounted on biz jet platforms due to their - improved altitude, endurance, performance and low operating costs.

Key Technologies & Trends:

Key Technologies
- NLOS, LOS, NCO/NCW
- INteroperability
- Seekerless munitions (affordability is important)
- SAR
- SR - Rockets and BMD systems
- IFF
- System on Chip implementations
- Integrated FADEC and Electronic Aircraft Control (ie, the FCS controls both the FBW and the FADEC).

Key Trends:
- Urban Warfare
- LIC optimized systems
- UAVs and UCAVs
- Human Resource Factors (cost of a soldier, training, etc)./
- Affordability

Requirements
- Revolution in military affairs has brought many new reqts.
- All weather precision warfare
- Stealth
- Size
- Space based sensors


Conclusion: There is a lack of critical mass in teh modern aviation market. To survive and grow, the companies must focus on their core competencies. Consolidation is also important to grow and survive.


Qns??

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Akshut » 21 Feb 2009 16:02

And here's a beauty....

Image

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby k prasad » 21 Feb 2009 16:02

Akshut wrote:And here's a beauty....

Image


Notice the Derby missile on the middle underwing pylon.


Great pics btw, Akshut.... y dont u put em up on the BR AI gallery??

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Akshut » 21 Feb 2009 16:07

k prasad wrote:
Great pics btw, Akshut.... y dont u put em up on the BR AI gallery??


I dont know how to do that????

Any algorithm to follow?? :roll:

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Rahul M » 21 Feb 2009 16:37

just go here : http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/AeroIndia2009

register and upload ! your pics will be on BR for your grandkids to see ! :D

great shots BTW.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby vina » 21 Feb 2009 17:02

disha wrote:Take a close look at the photo below:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/AeroIndia2009/AI09-Kedar/D032966-lca-land-chute.jpg.html

One or two year back a BR jingo was R&Dh [Rona Dhona, english for ranting] on how silly the ADA/HAL folks are for capping the drogue chute of LCA with a red cap which will pop out once the drogue chute is deployed. And then the ground crews will be searching for the red cap on the air strip and how dangerous that is and how it will effect the war preparedness etc ...


That was yours truly onree saar. The way the design was, it used to pop out and bob around on the runway and you had to send someone to fetch it after the plane landed . Yes , I have videos in my hard disk (downloaded from BR of course) of that happening, as the Tejas was landing. That was surely a hazard for other aircraft landing and a dog in real world operations.

2. The red cap pulls out the rest of the drogue chute and *is attached to the drogue chute*

And the above picture confirms that. The red cap is attached to the drogue chute.


Ah, but Saar, this is today!. Cunning Yindoos have "fixed" the piraablem.Very elegant solution I should say. I thought that they will go the way of the SU-30 etc and fix the cap to a door hinge so that it opens out and stays fixed to the airframe after the chute is deployed. But very Chankian and Kaam Chor onree saar, 'em Yindoos are. They tied that cap with a couple of knots to the main chute. Problem Solved :idea: . Have a Nice Day :mrgreen: . (effort involved in solution, nearly zero and those guys took chai paani ka paisa for a full day's labor and must have slinked off for the rest of the day!)

Have to say that I like these Yindoo "pipe wrench" solutions very much.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby vina » 21 Feb 2009 17:05

Akshut wrote:And here's a beauty....
..

Nice. Can you post a high resolution full size pic. Also do you have a picture of that notice board in the background?

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Singha » 21 Feb 2009 18:15

because of visual effect the tejas looks like a 3 foot model a/c landing compared
to the objects in background!

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Indrajit » 21 Feb 2009 19:04

Thanks a ton to Kedar for the awesome pics!some corrections needed though in the AC designation on page 2,MiG-35 is wrongly designated as MiG-25.The Tejas and Garud pics are simply a treat. 8)

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby VishnuCK » 21 Feb 2009 19:13

These are *highly* recommended !!
http://ifile.it/5avn4ij
http://ifile.it/a3v5phx
http://ifile.it/hpea6xf

all credit to the unnamed guru and vishnu.[/quote]

Please try the links below if the ones above do not work. I created an account to upload this time before i did the uploads.

http://ifile.it/fpzta7y/day_2.pdf
http://ifile.it/8w7kf64/day_1.pdf
http://ifile.it/ur2980x/day_3.pdf

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby svinayak » 21 Feb 2009 21:51

Image

Check the dates of acquisition and frequency in 1980s

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby sum » 21 Feb 2009 21:58

All the fighter acquisitions( M-2000, MiG-23, MiG-29) in the 80s were due to the single reason of F-16s Baksheesh by Unkil which was a game-changer at that time.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Rahul M » 21 Feb 2009 22:01

not to forget the harpoon and some serious noise about hawkeye and mirage-2000, it was even rumoured that su27 would be inducted in PAF !

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Vick » 21 Feb 2009 23:15

Kedar,
Wonderful pics. Some of the best aircraft pics I've seen, not just the best Tejas pics.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby kedar.karmarkar » 22 Feb 2009 00:02

Indrajit wrote:Thanks a ton to Kedar for the awesome pics!some corrections needed though in the AC designation on page 2,MiG-35 is wrongly designated as MiG-25.The Tejas and Garud pics are simply a treat. 8)


Would like to repeat what I said earlier folks - the mig-35 in the filename is obviously a mis-type - the main problem being the filename being treated as the caption, rather than the caption - which is correct as MiG-35.

Again, thanks for the encouraging words.

- Kedar

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby maz » 22 Feb 2009 01:29

Hello Akshut, could you pls email the hi rez version of the excellent naval LCA picture to me. To be more precise, did you take a picture of the info board behind the model with the ADS picture? If so, please share.

Thanks.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Kanson » 22 Feb 2009 09:39



Kedar, you are good at cranking D3 to its full effects. The beauty of Tejas is exemplified.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby kedar.karmarkar » 22 Feb 2009 09:39

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/Aer ... I09-Kedar/

Some more uploads of the hawk, skat and sarang using the QnD method.

- Kedar

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Kakarat » 22 Feb 2009 09:52

maz wrote:Hello Akshut, could you pls email the hi rez version of the excellent naval LCA picture to me. To be more precise, did you take a picture of the info board behind the model with the ADS picture? If so, please share.

Thanks.


Photos: LCA Tejas at Aero India 2009 - Shiv Aroor

Image

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Kanson » 22 Feb 2009 10:03

ArmenT wrote:
k prasad wrote:The unsaid thing is that missiles and other electronics can be defeated, and do have a doubtfulness, but a gun is dumb - it will not listen to anything else. It may actually end up being most useful against the best of opponents. (I think talking wrt Israel, this means that they may not use it for normal ops now, but if there is a war, they will definitely need it).

I think it was Ben Rich of the Lockheed Skunk Works, who once famously observed, "General, that's why they call them 'miss-iles' instead of 'hit-iles'!!". USAF and USN learned the hard way during Vietnam that a gun can come in very handy in air-to-air combat.

Incidentally, the British optimistically named one edition of the Rapier Missile System as a "Hitile". Didn't live up to its name in the Falklands though.


:) Probably it should be treated as Miss of i(s)le, the beauty. Like any beauty it needs lot of attention.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Kanson » 22 Feb 2009 10:41

Jay wrote:
Kanson wrote: These seminars are public dissemination of info regarding Indian defence systems and products.

What Kobe said is completely relevant. The name handle is not to hide from hitlist, but to keep the information sources open. In one to one interviews if somebody ralizes that its the same person who's disseminating the info on a public info board then its hard to get all the info. Take a look back at few of the posts in this thread where some members were saying how an employee from Kaveri program came to BR stall asking about the report which Prasad made here. By the way, we don't see your full name here as well!


I guess your are mistaken. I was talking about the seminar which are meant to educate, promote, advertise Indian def products to the assembled foreign and local crowds. Lets leave it at that. No problem.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Kanson » 22 Feb 2009 10:43

Sorry sir... only the notes and my memory...


No problem Prasad, Thanks for the reply. You took lot of efforts.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby pkudva » 22 Feb 2009 13:46

I liked the Indian AWAC on the EMB-145,just waiting it to fly looks an awesome a/c.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby sum » 22 Feb 2009 15:44

K Prasad/Rakall sir(s),

Since you have gained extensive knowledge of our forces in this AI-09, could you please provide a small write-up on the current ADGES of IA/IAF and what will it look like in the near future(when most of the indigenous equipment/future foreign acquisitions will be online)?

The ADGES has come in for severe flak in the media in recent times for being highly obsolete and since you have a better picture of current ADGES and our efforts into our indigenous efforts( and also future foreign procurements on the ADGES front), maybe you could throw some light?

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Sanjay » 22 Feb 2009 17:48

If I might make a suggestion - the work of Rakall and K. Prasad is valuable, well presented and thorough. The information they have compiled is worth the public relations budget of the MoD and the individual DPSUs 100 times over.

However, I fear that if left in the discussion threads, finding their superb information in the future may become difficult.

Might I suggest creating a non-dicussion AI news/ info thread where their information can be kept and added to without the distraction of discussion ?

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Rahul M » 22 Feb 2009 18:12

this thread would be anyway archived.
best would be if they write these things down in the form of articles.

have already asked them, will do so again.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby K Mehta » 22 Feb 2009 18:30

Sanjay wrote:Since you have gained extensive knowledge of our forces in this AI-09, could you please provide a small write-up on the current ADGES of IA/IAF and what will it look like in the near future(when most of the indigenous equipment/future foreign acquisit

I second it.
Rahul M wrote:this thread would be anyway archived.
best would be if they write these things down in the form of articles.

have already asked them, will do so again.

Rahul
articles wouldnt cover all aspects of info they have posted. While articles would be good, Their posts, relevant comments put together would be good for future reference. There is too much noise and such thread would remove the noise and only put up the signal. Think like Fourier transform. :)

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby sum » 22 Feb 2009 19:31

Rahul M wrote:this thread would be anyway archived.
best would be if they write these things down in the form of articles.

have already asked them, will do so again.

I actually dont mind if there is a post of the ADGES thing also(instead of any article). :-o
The delay in the article coming out will be a very testing time for this jingo unlike a simple post which can be instantly put up!!!! :twisted:

Im just desperate to have some authentic info on the ADGES thingie and how we stand with respect to it after hearing all the horror stories about it( without all the noise, bias etc of external sources like wiki etc, Fourier style signal only as K Mehta-ji said)

This entire thread is anyways worth 1000 articles in any hi-fi journals.

Sanjay
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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Sanjay » 22 Feb 2009 19:54

Sum, I'd written some (what I think anyway) accurate stuff on the ADGES and BADZ network - the latest being in 2005-2006 or so in Vayu, IDR and elsewhere. Might be a useful starting point ?

sum
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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby sum » 22 Feb 2009 20:10

Sanjay wrote:Sum, I'd written some (what I think anyway) accurate stuff on the ADGES and BADZ network - the latest being in 2005-2006 or so in Vayu, IDR and elsewhere. Might be a useful starting point ?

Sure,sir...could you please point me to them? Are they open material?

I do have your article of 2001-02 vintage on my HDD though i feel a lot has changed since that article and hence, asking for the latest authentic info taking into account all the upcoming JVs(like MRSAM, LRSAM etc) and our indigenous progress till now....

TIA....

Sanjay
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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Sanjay » 23 Feb 2009 02:41

Much has not changed unfortunately. I did some upgrades regarding the radar net in the Vayu article. I will check the reference.

A good deal of emphasis has been placed on upgrading radars rather than procuring new ones. As far as SAMs are concerned, they are not part of the ADGES system which refers to the radar network. Even then, talking about ADGES without the BADZ - as the media is wont to do- is useless.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby Jagan » 23 Feb 2009 03:42

Gopala Krishna has some brochures uploaded in his album

Image

Is that the Naval LCA under construction?

Also checkout yaswanths album - a bunch of new pictures there as wll.

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Re: Aero India 2009

Postby asprinzl » 23 Feb 2009 05:07

Hmmm some of the pics of the LCA was taken at fantastic angles by the gurus on here. I suggest that a couple of these be printed in either 18 X 24 or 24 X 36 format posters for sale to collectors at brobably ten to fifteen dollars. Or calendars. Some ways to raise money for BRF. I wonder how come DRDO didnt do anything of the sort especially with a test pilot handy to have such posters autographed. For entities like DRDO not so much as money making effort but an effort in creating awareness especially among kids.
Avram


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