Aerosem-2008

vina
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by vina »

Folks.. Check out the scene with the Kaveri engine. I am sure some one can ask a straight question . on 1) Does it work ? 2) What is the engine going for the LCA, the Kaveri+Sencma or the EJ200 or GE F414 ?.

There is something fishy going on there. There are all the signs that the babus are hedging and that there is a very very high probability that the base Kaveri is working.. I am basing that on the marine version unveiled, no bad news for such a long time for testing (negative news will flow immediately, like the K9 bitch throwing it's teeth out in Russia) .

Most important of all , the babus and assorted "engine committee", "experts and eminent persons" (random babus and assorted pooh bahs by any other name, who cant find their asses in daylight with their two hands) took an incredible amount of time to sign up on anything ,(have they signed anything at all yet?), when they promised to do that within 3 months. Even by India babu monkey standards, that is appallingly bad, unless of course, the "decision" is a plan B and Plan A is actually working well or is very nearly there and there is a good deal of confidence that Plan A works.
Avarachan
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by Avarachan »

shiv wrote:
K Mehta wrote:Shivji,
there was one GTRE brochure too, did you manage to get one?
I have a couple of friends going tomorrow. I have a few requests for hem already, lets see what the new day brings for us.
Sadly - this brochure business seemed to me to be a bit like weddings in my family. The traditional wedding function is typically mid morning at which time people pour in to bless the couple and cross them off their "available" lists. But only family members are marked out for gifts - i.e. family members get some gift or the other - typically a sari for women.

In Aerosem as well as Aero India few brochures are made for the public to take away. Brochures are hoarded and handed with great ceremony to visitors from other governmental departments and from the services - i.e just like my family weddings - only family qualify for the goodies.

On the one hand DRDO complains of poor publicity and tries to keep away the emdia. But doesn't anyone have the sense or foresight to spend a little bit on a brochure that a school or college type can understand or relate to?

I will scan another brochure and put it up. I am afraid I haven't read it as yet - so boring do I find the info in that brochure. Maybe I am stupid - but I am no more stupid than an average citizen and it it bores me it is likely to bore the average senior school child. Surely our greatest scientific minds who are making all this fancy stuff, and who invite schoolchildren in busloads to such an exhibition can design a brochure that is readable and informative rather than complaining of poor publicity, keeping cameras/media away and sharing boring brochures with other members of their own PSU family?

It's not as though there are incapable people. It is possible to make attractive readable material - as anyone who looks at a modern CBSE textbook will attest. Heck I'm only asking for an informative brochure. An exhibition means publicity and sharing information. Sharing information means providing that information in an understandable and memorable format. Do you make a public exhibition for PSU heads or for the public. Why call the public if only PSU heads need to get the most out of the exhibition

< end rant >
Shiv,

Is the DRDO open to accepting pro bono marketing work from outside firms?

I know some people who might be willing to volunteer their time and expertise. You can email me at akuruvilla79 AT yahoo dot com.
Or, I'm sure some senior members of BRF have expertise in this area ... Were any of the DRDO guys aware of B-R?
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by K Mehta »

vina there is this bit of news that it was tested in september and these tests have so far gone on well.
K Mehta
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by K Mehta »

well shiv I guess I was lucky you had this session with them in the morning.
About the UAV system that you saw was the FLYDAQ system visible in background in this image. That system is to be used only during testing phase but the other ground systems are used during the actual use.
The payload figure was the one they consistently threw around, i got the 75 KG payload figure too. I too saw the linux windows thing.
The ADE stall demonstrator told me exactly what vikram is saying, that this is just to demonstrate MALE UAV tech.
Interesting discussion I had with the Sudarshan demonstrator. He said that from being reverse engineers we hve now graduated to integrators. You give us different systems and now we can integrate most of them to give you a weapon system. He gave the example of sudarshan lgb, LCA, Su-30 etc. But he said that from integrators we need to move to innovators, for that we need to create high tech systems in India. Most high tech systems are right now being bought off the shelf from abroad because there is no Indian alternative available. He gave the example of the laser detector of the LGB which is being bought off the shelf and integrated. He said we can only make the same number of LGB as the number of detector supplied.
He made one more point that was "To create this kind of technology we need scientists and not engineers. But there are not many people taking up science especially Physics and Maths that needs to be researched to develop such systems"
Vikram_S wrote: sir, do uhave anything on aerostat radar, DARe avionics, ground systems of aewc and uav
No need to sir me yaar,
There was a lot about Dare avionics esp the tarang RWR. The stall demonstrated how the RWR showed when a radar locked on to it and also the direction from which the missile was coming. The ground system of the AEW is sort of a redundant system to the Satcom link, it provided the data to the command centre along with the satcom link. The Aerostat is being used as an anti aircraft system rather than a radar platform.
The kaveri engine demonstrator told me that the blades were being made up of Ni-Cr super alloys made by directional cooling. I talked to him about single crystal tech and thrust vectoring, but it looks like they arent a near future focus.
Kakarat
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by Kakarat »

Any pictures of Sudarshan LGB from the exhibition?
vicky_iyer
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by vicky_iyer »

vina wrote:Folks.. Check out the scene with the Kaveri engine. I am sure some one can ask a straight question . on 1) Does it work ? 2) What is the engine going for the LCA, the Kaveri+Sencma or the EJ200 or GE F414 ?.

There is something fishy going on there. There are all the signs that the babus are hedging and that there is a very very high probability that the base Kaveri is working.. I am basing that on the marine version unveiled, no bad news for such a long time for testing (negative news will flow immediately, like the K9 bitch throwing it's teeth out in Russia) .

Most important of all , the babus and assorted "engine committee", "experts and eminent persons" (random babus and assorted pooh bahs by any other name, who cant find their asses in daylight with their two hands) took an incredible amount of time to sign up on anything ,(have they signed anything at all yet?), when they promised to do that within 3 months. Even by India babu monkey standards, that is appallingly bad, unless of course, the "decision" is a plan B and Plan A is actually working well or is very nearly there and there is a good deal of confidence that Plan A works.
<Am cutting and pasting from my earlier mail in a different forum>
Hello All~

I had an opportunity to visit the DRDO's exhibition yesterday, here in Bangalore.
Although I had great expectations, I was a bit disappointed with the show put on by DRDO. To me it looked like an exhibition at the dept of mech engineering at any major college.

There was the Kaveri engine there; But it seems LCA is no more a light combat aircraft as it was meant to be. The thrust parameters have been revised and now the Kaveri is expected to be a 100 KN (Reheat) engine. I had a question to which none out there had a satisfactory answer.

1> How are you going to increase the engine thrust parameters by almost 20%, with out affecting a change in LCA airframe or without throughly re-engineering the Kaveri engine. Which would again take a few years.

So the way I see it, there is no hope GTRE is gonna get an engine out there, sometime soon. Also I saw many people commenting on foreign collaboration. Comments such as we can throw money and others will give us the technology. No body will give any technology of any relevance, even if you throw the money. Even if they do give it, it would be with attached caveats.

We are still a poor country, and have a large population without access to clean drinking water and food, leave alone a house over their head. So throwing around money is not my prescription to solve a problem.
You solve a problem by digging into your skills and innovative capabilities.
I am extremely proud of being an Indian and do believe we have the capability to do it, if we set ourself to it. I don't believe in either begging or stealing. We need to roll up the sleeves and get to work.
We have wonderfully run organizations like ISRO in front of us.

So here is my prescription. Disband GTRE and other white elephants out there. Move all primary research to major universities in the country.Get the private sector involved in manufacturing.

Call Ratan Tata to the defense ministry, give him a mandate for an engine and a fixed time. You bet he will deliver.

In the interim, order GE 414 or 404 and get the LCA's rolling into the Airforce.

This really hurts me in the gut, when a country of our size can't make a damn tank and aircraft engine, 15-20 years after the initiation of the project. I really do believe, we are not that bad.

-Vivek-
sunilUpa
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by sunilUpa »

No one conshiders LMU as technical conshultant..all those close observations of bredators are really useful...
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by Vikram_S »

Raj Malhotra wrote:Frankly I don't care, till DRDO gets the things working.
Vikram_S wrote: thedre is no istaeli help for samho or sudarshan. both are local designs. sudarshan is still in tests and will take time to final. if you see bharatdynamics had mentioned sudarshanm project 2 years back only. from isreal for uav, we will buy system like SAR radar and very long range thermal imager. this is also possible to be replaced by own designs in future.
point was we shud be not like prasun sengupto who see whole of israel migrate to india and making everuthing for foolish indians

anyway, it is better to do own thing as much as possible and only use foreign subcomponent for last 5-10% like drdo is doing now

hope is that drdo has learnt the trick to match scope creep of services = > better than importing everything and making it in india as license production like t-90 :( while killing arjun
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by Raj Malhotra »

Vikram_S wrote:there is only one Rustam.

burt rutan design aircraft is testbed for mAle technologies. it will be demonstrated to the user and then the final rustom design will be made clear (using concurrent engineering, it is possible to incorporate change on final version in parallel). but the actual rustom (2x engines) will have aerodynamic cleared by first prototype (1X engine) while the mustache UAV is used to perfect technology. there r no 7-10 uavs. only 3-4 designs. improved version of nishant, HALE, MALE and other lighter weight one.
The above para is slightly confusing. Are you trying to say:-

Rutan Long Ez is only a stop gap test bed for MALE flight control software tech and other subsystsms. Then what will be MALE?

The 2 engined UAV will be final UAV. Will it be MALE or HALE and would it be heavier than Long Ez?

How can 2 engined UAV be aerodynamically cleared by single engined one as their configuration is different?
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by Vikram_S »

>>Rutan Long Ez is only a stop gap test bed for MALE flight control software tech and other subsystsms.

yes

>>Then what will be MALE?

k mehta and shiv should have photograph, can they post it

>>The 2 engined UAV will be final UAV. Will it be MALE or HALE and would it be heavier than Long Ez?

male, it should be as heavy as HERON class UAV

>>How can 2 engined UAV be aerodynamically cleared by single engined one as their configuration is different?

you can check out basic flight controls and aerodynamic configuration on a single engine system with same basic overall platform
for more payload you move to double engine
many flying testbed for uav began with single engine and then as test program progress you move to double engine.
Raj Malhotra
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by Raj Malhotra »

thanks for your replies and waiting for some pics from bangalore BRites.

Note-there are definitely two versions of Rutan long ez tech demonstrator 600kg & 750kg. Also Heron has version with MTOW ranging from 1100kg to 4000kg so can I assume with two engines Rustom can also be anything from 1100kg to 5000kg or so? Also that would mean that squadron level entry of Rustom may be atleast 5 years away.
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by Vikram_S »

5 years away is i think reasonable because original plan was for 2012 service entry

also, iaf plans to procure 2 squadron of rustom
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Re: Aerosem-2008

Post by K Mehta »

Friends,
whatever photos we had we posted, since no more photos are there or info to discuss, I would request the admins to lock this thread and put it into military expo archives.
Locked