Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

rsingh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4451
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 01:05
Location: Pindi
Contact:

Post by rsingh »

Been on BR since Pokhran 2. I do not think BRs standerd has down. I do not want a strile,politically correct and tasteless BR. BR is doing fine. I enjoy debates on stratigy and technology. I have understood that BR IS REALLY AHAED OF CURVE.....most of the time. Even pinglish threads are ahaed of curve :twisted: . Admins are doing great job. Would like Alok_N back....that was our communal loss.
I wonder how an Indian Muslim might feel when he/she visits BR. Patriotic Indian Muslim who are ready to die for country might feel betrayed. Again I am not advocating for a politically correct BR, we have to stress on differebce between Bakis and Indian Muslims. On other hand I have never seen any posts from Muslim posters who feel sorry for victims after countless bomb blasts that kills Indians :roll:

I have few suggestions
-Start a dedicated thread that try to forecast the events.
-Make a BR endorsed list of hotels,bars,restos and other places for major world cities. It can be done easily and will be very practical when we travel.
Multatuli
BRFite
Posts: 612
Joined: 06 Feb 2007 06:29
Location: The Netherlands

Post by Multatuli »

But do we now openly express contempt for Islam itself?


Gerard sahib, it´s no secret that I do not respect Islam. And why should I ?
The Quran itself is hate speech. Am I to respect an ideology that demands that it's followers kill everyone that is not a member of the club or subdue him ( the Dhimmi status, 10th rate citizen ), that justifies rape and kidnapping of infidel women ? BRF may ban me, but I am not going to pretend that I respect Islam.

By the way, this does not mean that I hate Muslims, they are victims of Islam as well.
Mahendra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4416
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 17:20
Location: Chronicling Bakistan's Tryst with Dysentery

Post by Mahendra »

There has been a lot said about the PENIS thread, Most of the founding fathers of the Pakibashing thread in its earlier forms have stopped posting due to a plethora of issues ranging from excessive use of Pinglish to excessive image posting.

I will do the unthinkable and suggest locking/purging the PENIS thread for a period of time. The Adminullahs can take a call after the trial period.
In the mean time most of the NSN reporters will become unemployed and can be shot by the adminullahs for trespassing into other dhaagas and using unparliamentary language.

This should partly satisfy BRFites who are interested in quality debates. Another way of improving the quality of discussions is by banning people whose posts looks like follows
I think India should buy XXX and integrate it with XXX as it will cost XXXX less than buying a established product from XXXXX. How come the foolish army/navy/AF/MOD didn't think of it they must be corrupt onlee
It's upto the promotors and the admins to decide what direction they want the forum to take. In my not so humble opinion increasing the number of admins who can ban posters like myself will help to an extent


Ok ,I'm off to sleep now, please post the brickbats in PENIS thread or BAN thread.

In case I am banned

My sincere thanks to all the admins for doing a great job and to all the PENIS Mullahs for their effort in projecting the real picture of the paradise to our west.

JM2PR
Pulikeshi
BRFite
Posts: 1513
Joined: 31 Oct 2002 12:31
Location: Badami

Post by Pulikeshi »

Gerard wrote: When I first joined BRF, religion and politics were verboten. Perhaps such divisive topics should have stayed banned?
While I share your concern on hate speech. I feel that the heart of the matter is what does BR want to be - A site exclusively for Indian Military enthusiasts or does it also want to nurture out-of-the-box strategic thinking and a gathering place for like minded individuals who care about India?

If it is the latter than religion and politics are fair game, in case it is the former then you are correct in keeping the site kosher! In either case however, it is Dharma to allow others to disagree without becoming disagreeable. I may be wrong, but I see a schizophrenia in the site which has existed since the beginning. The forum guidelines ban politics and religion from discussion, yet we do... but how do you talk strategy and what has bearing on India, if we ignore the forces of religion and politics? It is Dharma for the Gods to live within the rules of their creation, because man is only one step away from a God breaking the rule.

Another point, is that BR has increasingly become the hallowed grounds for conspiracy touting cliques of one kind or another.... Why refer to folks as pinko, chaddiwala, etc.? The conversation is a polite without these "labels". With intellectual conversations, irrespective of a persons affiliations, their arguments may fall into left, right or center. There is no guarantee what direction free thinking will take... can we do away with labels in conversations?

PS: Can we strive to be Bharatiya "Whigs"? Whose first and only allegiance is to the truth, and is willing to give up any proposition whatsoever in face of counterveiling evidence. Not someone who educates an emotive commitment or response to a set of propositions, but pursues truth for its own sake? Tall order perhaps!

Finally, I don't even remember a time before BRF! :mrgreen:
Thanks to all who keep it going....
Last edited by Pulikeshi on 07 Jun 2008 03:54, edited 1 time in total.
satyarthi
BRFite
Posts: 179
Joined: 21 Aug 2006 08:50

Post by satyarthi »

Gerard wrote:
Re: Islamism threads:
A lot of initial indignation was grounded in the fear that the harsh truth may hurt. But a good balance was found thanks to Shiv's persistence.
But has a balance been found?

The Islamism thread is pretty toxic. A bunch of us (and I include myself in this) post stuff there that (a) tends to create a negative impression of Islam, rather than just Islamism and (b) reinforces this impression by concentrating negative reports from many media sources.

Now that thread was educational. Many of us now understand radical Islamism, its history and goals etc. But do we now openly express contempt for Islam itself?

I sometimes do a double take when I read (and myself contribute) that thread. I wonder what impression it creates in the mind of an Indian Muslim who is interested in the military and comes across BRF.
There were few muslim participants in the early days. Imtiaz, Salman, Badar contributed very good posts. Rise of Islamism threads can be correlated to a decline in the participation of muslims. And many may argue that the correlation extends to causation.

But Islamism has been a threat to India and still is. People who bombed Jaipur recently and their predecessors don't shy away from thumping Quran to justify their actions.

The poignant fact is that the seeds of Islamism can be traced directly into the Quran itself. If they were to be found only in the Hadiths, a stronger case could have been made to separate Islam from Islamism. Added to this is the rigid notion in Islam that everything in Quran is Allah's word, and irrespective of under what conditions or circumstances they were revealed to Mohammad, they are applicable to all space and all time (universal & eternal). That doesn't leave much wiggle room for Kafirs try to see Islam and Islamism as fundamentally different.

Yet, many muslims do make that difference. M.J. Akbar mentioned that by Jihad he understood an internal spiritual struggle. But unfortunately many other muslims don't. And none of them will question openly the universal & eternal claimed nature of Allah's word.

Given that Islamism has a direct relevance to India's security, the forum would have been amiss to not discuss this by hiding behind political correctness.

The forum's approach has been to make a distinction that Islam is larger than Islamism. So, a criticism should be directed using only the term Islamism. It doesn't mean Islam itself is left out, since Islamism is part of Islam, but that it is recognized that Islam is larger than that.

Unfortunately Islamism and Islam will continue to get conflated, until some passages in Quran are not openly asserted to have limited validity by Muslims. For example you sometimes hear that the passages relating to violence against Kafirs were applicable only during the war fought by Mohammad. But muslim community as a whole, not just some individuals, would have to come to that conclusion. And convince the Kafirs that they mean it. Chances of that happening are frankly rather dim at the present.

So, I don't know whether there is a happy way out.
Raju

Post by Raju »

But Islamism has been a threat to India and still is. People who bombed Jaipur recently and their predecessors don't shy away from thumping Kuran to justify their actions.
GoI in its infinite wisdom has not revealed who is the mastermind behind that. While it is certain HuJI bangladeshis and SIMI simians were involved we still do not know who the mastermind is. So just on basis of one email i.d. or random email let us not conclude that muslims masterminded the blasts.
satyarthi
BRFite
Posts: 179
Joined: 21 Aug 2006 08:50

Post by satyarthi »

Raju, O.K. Although latest arrests had muslim names, and explosions supposedly happened near temples.

What I propose is that Islamism thread should not use mockery. It should be treated as a serious thread. and critical but truthful points can be made without mocking Islam or the prophet.

P.S. May be the Islamism thread should have its own set of rules. e.g.

1. Thou shalt not use the term "Islam" where "islamism" would suffice.
2. Thou shalt not mock.
3...
Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8012
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Post by Gerard »

So, I don't know whether there is a happy way out.
And have we crossed a rubicon, with no going back?
satyarthi
BRFite
Posts: 179
Joined: 21 Aug 2006 08:50

Post by satyarthi »

Gerard wrote:
So, I don't know whether there is a happy way out.
And have we crossed a rubicon, with no going back?
If you acknowledge that Islamism threads did serve a purpose in educating many people, then it is easy to concede that there are many more people not yet reached by BRF that may yet appreciate that education.

One way out would have been to rely on the archives. But continuing nature of the threat means there is still relevancy in maintaining the thread. Also the educational value for people not yet reached by BRF is better served by a running thread than archives.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

I do not believe that this thread should be used to make judgements or decisions on topics like Islam or Nuclear issues

I do believe that this thread should be for looking at how we tend to view other posters and people on BRF and how we handle opinions that are not personal attacks.

We like to speak of the diversity of India but we are often unable to handle a diversity of views. We find it difficult to accept that people are individuals first and may have "hyper-secular" sentiments about on issue today and may have "right wing" views on some other issue. We fail to predict that a person with one type of view might change over time.

Either way, we try to make things simple for our own minds (perhaps indicating our own mental inability to handle complexity) by branding people under a single label "Pinko", "Chaddiwala", RSS murderer, Muslim horde, constable, prostitute etc.

There are fundamental rules in forum communication that have been transgressed again and again and again by most people who post here regularly (barring a few exemplary examples). Those rules are the inability to resist posting a subtle insult, or the inability to resist posting a "general description" that is hurtful.

I might be accused of myself of failing to accept that it takes all kinds to make all types of posts and why don't I "accept that variability" and be done with it.

No doubt about that argument - but when we allow more arguments and flaming and impoliteness we get a degradation of quality of posts and threads full of junk, and the discouraging of people whose posts are well thought out and a pleasure to read; and a proliferation of people whose posts can be completely ignored without any loss of value, But when these latter people start flaming valuable contributors and assume for themselves the collective title of being a member of a unique forum, we are beginning to hit rock bottom.

Two issues come up. One is disagreement on an opinion. Simple disagreement is fine. But when that disagreement is expressed along with a nuance referring to the behavior or other tendencies of the other poster - it is the beginning of a flamewar. An admin cannot often blame a member for just making such a statement without getting into a flamewar with the person who said it. but if the other guy about whom the statement was made is unable to resist a repartee, we have a set of forum rivals who bicker over many posts and many threads.

It is easy to see this pattern repeated in thread after thread with the same people. I have, in recent years, gone into "tolerance" mode and have resisted complaints from forum members to ban people for long periods of time. But eventually, when I have banned some people, I often discover two things

1) The people who made the original complaints were right and I was wrong to allow that member to stay on.
2) The banned person is not missed at all and forum quality actually goes up after the ban

Ultimately I believe that there will always be some people who earn an instant ban. That is often better than allowing them to flame and rile a useful forum contributor and get him into a flamewar and then present the admin with Hobson's choice of banning both the troll and the valuable contributor.

But I am also asking people who consider themselves to be valuable forum contributors to
a) Do not respond to insults
b) Do not resort to insulting language yourself
c) state in bland, non angry terms that you consider a particular statement to be an insult - allowing the other guy to hang himself verbally if necessary
d) be patient with newbies. they often come in as naive morons.

This behavior makes it easier for the admin to recognize and instantly warn or weed out trolls.

And believe me - after 10 (or is it 11) years of forum moderation, not a single troll is missed on the forum although many have tried to get back in under new avatars. the few who got back in are valuable contributors themselves now.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Post by enqyoobOLD »

here has been a lot said about the PENIS thread,
Where, pls?
Raja Ram
BRFite
Posts: 587
Joined: 30 Mar 1999 12:31
Location: Chennai

Post by Raja Ram »

Gentle readers,

I have read through all the comments here at least 3 times, I still feel that all that is needed is to follow the simple and easy to follow rules that I listed. Not because, I listed it, but because the best threads and discussions were witnessed when postors followed those rules. It is a product of observation only. So I urge all of you to just adopt them.

The other thing I will recommend is that when one starts a thread, they should "own" the thread. They should ensure that they monitor it and see if it is getting out of hand. They can in an unoffensive way, point out the offending posts that are likely to derail the thread.

I very rarely start threads here. If I do, I ensure that I actually monitor the thread and if something is OT I point it out. I have always found that other forumites respond and I have had excellent threads as a result. It is the least that we can do to help the BRadmins out here. It will help them monitor things better. Dont think that maintaining quality in all threads are some exclusive responsibility of BRadmins. It is a responsibility that is shared by those who start threads and those who post. If everyone realizes this, there will be lesser number of threads and more quality as well.

As for BR being more tolerant or less tolerant, ultimately it should always be "satyameva jayate". If the trend is more towards right wing thinking, so be it. It is a result of fair exchange of ideas, there is no need for any special treatment for any viewpoint.

Just follow the simple rules and you will see that every one feels welcome as long as they are willing to challenge and be challenged. In this sagara manthan of ideas there will be sometimes halahal, we always have shivji and company to take care of that :D
ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5350
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Post by ShauryaT »

Pulikeshi wrote:
Gerard wrote: When I first joined BRF, religion and politics were verboten. Perhaps such divisive topics should have stayed banned?
While I share your concern on hate speech. I feel that the heart of the matter is what does BR want to be - A site exclusively for Indian Military enthusiasts or does it also want to nurture out-of-the-box strategic thinking and a gathering place for like minded individuals who care about India?

If it is the latter than religion and politics are fair game, in case it is the former then you are correct in keeping the site kosher! In either case however, it is Dharma to allow others to disagree without becoming disagreeable. I may be wrong, but I see a schizophrenia in the site which has existed since the beginning. The forum guidelines ban politics and religion from discussion, yet we do... but how do you talk strategy and what has bearing on India, if we ignore the forces of religion and politics? It is Dharma for the Gods to live within the rules of their creation, because man is only one step away from a God breaking the rule.

Another point, is that BR has increasingly become the hallowed grounds for conspiracy touting cliques of one kind or another.... Why refer to folks as pinko, chaddiwala, etc.? The conversation is a polite without these "labels". With intellectual conversations, irrespective of a persons affiliations, their arguments may fall into left, right or center. There is no guarantee what direction free thinking will take... can we do away with labels in conversations?

PS: Can we strive to be Bharatiya "Whigs"? Whose first and only allegiance is to the truth, and is willing to give up any proposition whatsoever in face of counterveiling evidence. Not someone who educates an emotive commitment or response to a set of propositions, but pursues truth for its own sake? Tall order perhaps!

Finally, I don't even remember a time before BRF! :mrgreen:
Thanks to all who keep it going....
Second your views Pullikeshi.
Jagan
Webmaster BR
Posts: 3032
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Earth @ Google.com
Contact:

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by Jagan »

YIPatel sent this in yesterday :D
have skimmed through BR occasionally since then, mainly to keep abreast of news and so on. On occasions (like when someone posted an article on Indian Army's military excercises that quoted a certain YIP), I have also been tempted to post. However, mylogin has been deactivated and it is too much for an old layabout to reapply so I have passed up on urges to make a comeback on BRF.

Today I read a post by Shiv on why BRF is going through a down phase, and the discussion seemed to center on administrator actions (or inactivity) that has prompted the decline... since I still continue to harbor great affection for BRF, I thought I should chime in with what IMHO is a crucial factor in declining quality of participation: nothing interesting is happening right now! Kashmir is showing increasing signs of return to normalcy, relations with Pakistan and China have stabilized, India's nuclear status is recognized and supporting programs initiated long ago are well apace, even the great doctrinal change to Cold Start that got me going has now matured to a stable and predictable path forward. In other words, India's strategic affairs are currently in a rather mundane and boring stage that really do not call for any rousing discussions of the type we used to have in the late 90s and early 00s. And that is the direct cause for why people have to get heated up about what would have been considered trifles a few years ago.
Keshav
BRFite
Posts: 633
Joined: 20 Sep 2007 08:53
Location: USA

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by Keshav »

Jagan wrote: I thought I should chime in with what IMHO is a crucial factor in declining quality of participation: nothing interesting is happening right now!
Interesting or not, analysis should not stop. Things are moving, we just have to identify them and while many of them are unknown to us at the time (i.e. speculation) that is the reason for the plethora of comments about "conspiracy theories" being thrown around too much.
Patni
BRFite
Posts: 886
Joined: 10 Jun 2008 10:32
Location: Researching sub-humans to our west!

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by Patni »

Hello Fellow BRF-Members,

I have been following BRF since last 3-4 years in lurk mode. The decision to register and be an active member is triggered by current "soul-searching" in the thread. Personally I believe the power of forum like BRF is that, its an able tool that is suppose to help provide a platform for the society at large to be able to share ideas & views on vital issue of nation building and with hope that it will help improve the cohesion in the society. I believe BRF has been doing that wonderfully well.
I agree with some of the views that overall standard can be maintained and improved only if more and more people, no matter how diverse a view and opinions share it with sound logical and civil manner. One should not have any particular topic/discussion suppressed just cause it might not be to liking of others. Thats not political correctness but is tantamount to head in sand syndrome or willful willingness to wish away reality. If the collective wisdom that results after lot of sound and logical debate happens to be something thats not agreeable to anyone then they have a choice to provide counter points in a debate. Historically I believe our nation was in forefront not cause of natural resources of the land or smartness or business acumen of traders, but because of the culture that promoted the kind of vary same debates and openness without anyone particular ideology/religion claiming to be The ultimate one.

Just my 2 kodi.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by enqyoobOLD »

YI Patel's post and Patni's post above compel me to point to why the real intellectual core of BRF discussion has shifted to - where else?- Bojitive Nooje Thread. MODEL of peace, harmony, mutual education and freedom of expression, as befits the Nation of Believers in the Belief of Peace. Visit, enlighten yourself, enjoy the ambience. What a difference a POSITIVE ATTITUDE makes! 8) I am considering patenting this along the lines of "Art of Living" -
the *art of Al-Lying
8)
surinder
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 08 Apr 2005 06:57
Location: Badal Ki Chaaon Mein

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by surinder »

I am have been a BRF member for not that long, but there are some observations I wish to make:

(1) The core of BRF is things related to raksha of bharat. This is not going to make me popular here, but I still should say it. Threads like Nukkad, Photography, Motion pictures, Food & Wine, Love Nukkad are all besides the point. There presence is like having a cabaret along with a serious scientific conference. The presence of these threads detracts from the main purpose of BRF.

(2) The software of BRF is a big dissappointment. I cannot find out where i was reading last when I come back to threads after more than a day. Individual spats between posters is hard because the whole thead is flat. Example: Has anyone used Microsoft News reader for USENET? There is a small "+" sign which contains rathole discussions, making them easy to avoid (and indulge in, if you wish). I don't know if I am clear, but overall software does not help too much.

(3) One idea I have is that seious posters should start threads with the explicit aim of writing a small article. They can open up the post with their skeleton and ask for discussions. Once the discussions are over in a few weeks, they turn in their articles. This will (a) preserve the opionons of the BRF community in a more readable format, and (c) direct the discussion to a goal. For instance, one poster could propse to discuss the "New post-Benazir Situation in Pakistan". He writes the introduction and sets the ball rolling. We all chime in. He argues and discusses all points and counter-points. But than after a few weeks, writes his peice. That peice is then put in place on BR web site. Same could be done for Islamisms, China, Tibet, History Distortions etc. We would powerful articles as a result. Eventually, if some (like Shiv) have more stamina and intellectual capacity, these articles can coalasce into an eBook. Like Shiv's book Pakistan. (I remember reading some very penetrating views on the Islamism thread, but unfortunately, it is now lost in archives or was simply deleted. Articles will preserve that group knowledge.) In some sense, this is Wikipedia like approach.

(4) One thing to realize is that people have only so much stamina to keep discussing the same issues again and again. Internet is a pretty tiring lonesome medium. Family, Job pressures mean we eventually bow out. I recall that many very sharp posters on USENET, simply dropped out after few years. Same is going to be true on BRF as well. It is a matter of time before smart geniuses like Shiv, Johann, etc. too will tire of all this and quit. Just the nature of things. We just have to accept it.

(5) If you are part of a clique, try not to flaunt it.
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17168
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by Rahul M »

(3) One idea I have is that seious posters should start threads with the explicit aim of writing a small article. They can open up the post with their skeleton and ask for discussions. Once the discussions are over in a few weeks, they turn in their articles. This will (a) preserve the opionons of the BRF community in a more readable format, and (c) direct the discussion to a goal. For instance, one poster could propse to discuss the "New post-Benazir Situation in Pakistan". He writes the introduction and sets the ball rolling. We all chime in. He argues and discusses all points and counter-points. But than after a few weeks, writes his peice. That peice is then put in place on BR web site. Same could be done for Islamisms, China, Tibet, History Distortions etc. We would powerful articles as a result. Eventually, if some (like Shiv) have more stamina and intellectual capacity, these articles can coalasce into an eBook. Like Shiv's book Pakistan. (I remember reading some very penetrating views on the Islamism thread, but unfortunately, it is now lost in archives or was simply deleted. Articles will preserve that group knowledge.) In some sense, this is Wikipedia like approach.
couldn't agree more surinder !
I have been literally shouting from the rooftop advocating such a path along with publication of the same as a regular BR article and have even volunteered editorial and managerial effort but the BR gurus seem content to limit their knowledge to the few hundred BRF browsers. :(

Rahul.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by enqyoobOLD »

er...
There presence is like having a cabaret along with a serious scientific conference. The presence of these threads detracts from the main purpose of BRF.


You HAVE been to "serious scientific conferences" and not as a student? And MISSED the cabaret? Let's see the ones I can think of right away: 1) Luau (that's where a Pakistani General is roasted), to the accompaniment of many grass-skirted dancers 2) premier gambling casino, with all the side activities that implies, 3) Disneyland 4) DisneyWorld, 5) Major brewery tour with plenty of free samples 6) (never mind..) :eek: :eek: :mrgreen:

Also, instead of sitting on the rooftop, etc, yelling urselves hoarse about publishing, how about ACTUALLY WRITING AND SENDING COHERENT ARTICLES, ppl? Like, I mean, YOU! I know this clears the forum REAL quick - :(( :(( is sooo much more fun..
surinder
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 08 Apr 2005 06:57
Location: Badal Ki Chaaon Mein

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by surinder »

enqyoob wrote:Also, instead of sitting on the rooftop, etc, yelling urselves hoarse about publishing, how about ACTUALLY WRITING AND SENDING COHERENT ARTICLES, ppl? Like, I mean, YOU! I know this clears the forum REAL quick - :(( :(( is sooo much more fun..
I would write, if they are going to be published.

I would also participate in the discussion for articles by other authors.

I am serious.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by enqyoobOLD »

Then, please do it. Send your first article to shiv, please. Serious. Try to shoot for some identifiable format and length - 1500 words? 2000 words? 5000 words? 700-word OpEd types may be suitable, but if you see what ppl do to OpEds here, you see why it is rather risky and probably depressing. OpEds, AFAIK, are for people who think their Opinions are worth megabucks, and they are too lazy or important to dig up the facts. I think around here one gets a more sympathetic reception ( :mrgreen: ) with facts, references, urls for readers to follow up, and careful interpretations.

Will it be "published"? Well... I don't run the forum or have any admin status, but I think it is a safe bet that the forum admins will publish things where there is no strong reason to NOT publish. Articles by Paki generals, politicians (I mean Paki) etc. or articles on cricket :(( or romance may not find acceptance, sadly, but mainly because of protest from "serious" ppl like urself.

'Bye (because u r going to b busy..) 8)
surinder
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 08 Apr 2005 06:57
Location: Badal Ki Chaaon Mein

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by surinder »

enqyoob wrote:Send your first article to shiv, please. ... Will it be "published"? Well... I don't run the forum or have any admin status,
Articles will be sent to Shiv on Shiv's invitation, not yours. Please do not ask me to submit articles if you "don't run the forum or have any admin status." Your invite carries no significance.
satyarthi
BRFite
Posts: 179
Joined: 21 Aug 2006 08:50

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by satyarthi »

I see Nukkad, bositive Neuj, photography etc threads as reserves. They hold the rakshaks while not much is happening on the rakshaa front. When something major happens, they will come pouring out from these play-pens.

Downside of not having any such play-pens, is that these temporarily bored people will find the same in some other forums, and may get hooked by unholy attractions there.
satyarthi
BRFite
Posts: 179
Joined: 21 Aug 2006 08:50

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by satyarthi »

surinder wrote:
enqyoob wrote:Send your first article to shiv, please. ... Will it be "published"? Well... I don't run the forum or have any admin status,
Articles will be sent to Shiv on Shiv's invitation, not yours. Please do not ask me to submit articles if you "don't run the forum or have any admin status." Your invite carries no significance.
surinder, enqyoob was quite central in starting the SRR. So despite his claimed lack of powers and claimed adolescence, I would pay heed to him on this.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by enqyoobOLD »

Articles will be sent to Shiv on Shiv's invitation, not yours. Please do not ask me to submit articles if you "don't run the forum or have any admin status." Your invite carries no significance.

I couldn't believe that until I read it a few times, but under the new "One-Click Ban" deterrent, I don't react to such sh1t(s). Like I said, the admins can take care of such things. Instead I just thank you for that fine demonstration and unambiguous clarification of your attitude, maturity and general level of intelligence. I can see why they don't tell you about the cabarets at those deep scientific conferences. Do wait for the official invitation.
Last edited by enqyoobOLD on 11 Jun 2008 01:47, edited 1 time in total.
surinder
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 08 Apr 2005 06:57
Location: Badal Ki Chaaon Mein

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by surinder »

enqyoob wrote:Instead I just thank you for that fine demonstration and unambiguous clarification of your attitude, maturity and general level of intelligence.
You are most welcome. :wink:
Last edited by surinder on 11 Jun 2008 02:00, edited 1 time in total.
enqyoobOLD
BRFite
Posts: 690
Joined: 09 Sep 2004 05:16
Location: KhemKaran, Shomali Plain

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by enqyoobOLD »

And that confirms that it wasn't a fluke. Nice to have known you.
satyarthi
BRFite
Posts: 179
Joined: 21 Aug 2006 08:50

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by satyarthi »

Sometimes it helps to distinguish when a canonized saint is dancing in a red suit saying "ho! ho! ho!" merely for little kids' amusement, and when he is serious.
Sunoor Singh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 18
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 22:33
Location: Edge of a precipice

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by Sunoor Singh »

-deleted-
AniB
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 34
Joined: 18 Sep 2004 00:34
Location: Rockies

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by AniB »

And here goes Dr. Strangelove, again...

June 8:
Shri Anil Kakodkar will benefit from communist re-education camp.
June 10:
I would love to know possible reasons to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's senility?
I remember requesting Admins to caucus several times in Feb/March. It took you several weeks and regrettable public laundry washing. Fine.

I will again entreat you to caucus amonst yourselves, so that you can present a consistent front.
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17168
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by Rahul M »

where is this coming from ??

utterly distasteful and unacceptable. :evil:
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by shiv »

AniB wrote:And here goes Dr. Strangelove, again...

June 8:
Shri Anil Kakodkar will benefit from communist re-education camp.
June 10:
I would love to know possible reasons to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's senility?
I remember requesting Admins to caucus several times in Feb/March. It took you several weeks and regrettable public laundry washing. Fine.

I will again entreat you to caucus amonst yourselves, so that you can present a consistent front.
Sadly mystery posts such as these are the same as admins not being able to read every post. Quote a name and a place and something can be considered ("caucus") if not done.. Or else it's more of same.

In fact that is why more, and new, admins would help.
archan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6823
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 21:30
Contact:

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by archan »

If it helps, I remember reading those in the Indian Nuclear News and Discussion thread, page 6.
Jagan
Webmaster BR
Posts: 3032
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Earth @ Google.com
Contact:

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by Jagan »

Use the Image button please
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by shiv »

Jagan wrote:Use the Image button please
Thanks for the reminder Jagan. In case anyone did not notice that is the "report post" button
AniB
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 34
Joined: 18 Sep 2004 00:34
Location: Rockies

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by AniB »

Everyone noticed that "report post" button.

Pardon, but dont any of the Bradmins follow what fellow Webmin Arun.S/Chaandi Prasaad/ Dr. Strangelove, posts?

Are u on the same page. Indic diversity...
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by shiv »

AniB wrote:Everyone noticed that "report post" button.

Pardon, but dont any of the Bradmins follow what fellow Webmin Arun.S/Chaandi Prasaad/ Dr. Strangelove, posts?

Are u on the same page. Indic diversity...

Sorry. I don't know who Dr Strangelove is. The Arun S/Chandi Prasad identity was clarified by Arun.

But more to the point "noticing" the report post button is not the end of the issue. Reporting a post is equally important. A lot of people do report posts that admins miss, and since the forum is growing and admin attention is unable to keep up with every post the only four possible solutions are
1) Allow everything
2) Ask for member help by reporting of posts
3) Increase policing by creating more admins
4) Allowing nothing (shut down forums)

1 and 4 are ruled out

That leaves 2, which has been made easier by the upgrade and 3 is what this thread was started to discuss.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by Sanku »

Personally I see only one problem with BRF moderation; I see what seems to be double standards here (IMVHO and other standard disclaimers apply) -- and this is not the case where Admins have missed the part where things are happening. Let me explain further--

While everyone is after Arun_S for what he is saying; he still is saying what he is saying openly and standing by it and is talking of "PUBLIC" figures. There are "some" old members here who go after every one whose viewpoints they dont agree with sarcasm; labeling; juvenile language etc. As Satyrathi correctly said who is to distinguish whether a canonized old saint is going ho ho ho for kids benefit or whether they are trolling. Again on topic of Arun_S and so on -- wonder how many people remember how the acrimony started? A small clique on BRF was calling names to anyone who was asking questions on the wisdom of the deal (this was a time before the deal was seen to be what it was) and labels such a EBs etc were coined and flying about freely. Some people which divergent thoughts were clearly trolled off.

Even on this very page we have examples.

When there are two different standards of acceptable behavior for "valuable" contributors and the "less" valuable contributors there is always a problem. As I read through four pages of this thread I realize that this seems to be a hangover of "BRF is for us select folks" mindset that some people seem to have.

Have a clearly unbiased and visibly egalitarian approach in judging posts and all will be well. Judge not on past but on post.

In fact I would suggest that BRF has a scheme which is anti of Shiv's quick fire scheme. Let the admins vote on each member they want to let go of. A majority vote should be needed to let some one go out. Capture the indiscretions on the warning thread so that all get to see what exactly causes people to be ticked off.

This may certainly be a private board; but I do not think that the aims of inclusiveness and openness to what BRF stands for contradict the same.

And oh -- I agree with Shiv when he says there is a difference between saying the truth and impolite behavior
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Boot out the old and bring in new blood?

Post by shiv »

Ultimately a forum is a kind of club in which there are people who have interacted for years and others who come in later. Some of those who come in later are able to read and sense the atmosphere and join. Not everyone manages that.

It would be a mistake to assume that everyone is equal from day one. Definitely not. Some people are definitely more equal than others. A persistent inability to join the club rather than to dispute existing social hierarchies is a problem.

Admins are completely selfish in this regard. They will act in whatever way that is need to maintain th forum and keep the most positive and loyal contributors. The idea that admins are neutral umpires are wrong and that is the first thing that one comes to grips with on BRF. And admins are selected only on the basis of their loyalty and contribution to BR. This puts admins in line for flak - but no admin on BR puts personal popularity ahead of a commitment to keep the site and forum running as they have done for over a decade. Democracy and equality have no meaning in this private forum that is visible to the public.
Locked