Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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ramana
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

Sandhya Jain in Pioneer. BTW she validates our thinking that Owasi was ranting under influence.
Time to show he cares, and can change things

.Author: Sandhya Jain

Everyone is talking about Narendra Modi’s possible arrival on the national stage as the BJP’s prime ministerial candidate. The Gujarat Chief Minister has his work cut out, if he is serious

The Congress has always been adept at reading the tea leaves, smoke signals, and other occult signs indicating the way its fortunes are blowing. It is fully aware of its declining credibility since 2009, both at the Centre and in the State of Delhi. Hence, it views the results of the Gujarat election, which many see as boosting the prime ministerial prospects of Chief Minister Narendra Modi, as a countdown to an early election, certainly in Delhi, and possibly at the national level if the risk is considered worthwhile. Elections forced by constitutional deadline can leave the ruling party without room for manoeuvre.

The first salvos have already been fired with finesse, even as the BJP imagines it can wait until 2014 to decide whether or not to field a team captain.
Parties not prepared for elections in 2013 may be caught on the back foot.

Hyderabad MLA Akbaruddin Owaisi’s sudden intemperate speech against Hindus makes no sense unless it is seen as a command performance to polarise minority votes nationwide against Mr Modi, and make the BJP hesitate to anoint him. The same is true of activist Shabnam Hashmi who appeared on prime-time television eight days after the Gujarat election result to allege that Congress helped Mr Modi to win. Her real objective was to signal to one community not to forget the 2002 riots, never mind that these were triggered by the gruesome burning of pilgrims from Ayodhya in a train at Godhra. Many resent the Congress’s defeat in Godhra and other constituencies where Muslims determine the outcome.

To emphasise her point, Ms Hashmi, who runs an NGO, quit five Government panels — Central Advisory Board of Education, Maulana Azad Education Foundation, National Monitoring Committee for Minority Education, National Literacy Mission Council and Assessment and Monitoring Authority of Planning Commission. Whatever her credentials to be on any panel, it is revealing how the ruling party concentrates patronage on persons of certain ideological affinities. Do ‘experts’ who pack official panels also receive Government funds for NGO activity? Since many NGO platforms mingle with overt political activism, are they eligible for tax exemptions given for social work?


Anyway, with two powerful rounds fired successfully, the Congress is primed for a possible national election. Specific to Delhi, Chief Minister Sheila Dikshit, after much waffling, rushed to seize the initiative. Now that the brutal gang rape victim is no more and the public activism will come to a natural end, the action will move to a fast track court. With police investigations virtually complete, the prosecution can be expected to demand death penalty (most justified in this case). If the case, including appeals to the High Court, the Supreme Court and the President, can be wound up in six months, the Congress can claim credit and go for an early election in Delhi at least.

The flip side is that it will be difficult to continue to isolate the cases of Afzal Guru, convicted for Parliament House attack, and Balwant Singh Rajouna, convicted for the assassination of Punjab Chief Minister Beant Singh. In fact, the Supreme Court must take a call on whether implementation of the death penalty can be so blatantly tailored to political convenience.

Coming to Mr Modi, his hat-trick victory will be yesterday’s story unless he carves out a niché to stay in the national game while in Ahmedabad. That he is aware of this can be seen from his performance at the National Development Council meet on December 27, where he criticised the UPA Government for lowering the growth target in the 12th Plan to eight per cent and fuelling despondency and pessimism in the nation. He charged the Union Government of ‘policy paralysis’, but also made constructive suggestions that were appreciated by some Chief Ministers, who noted the absence of harsh words in his speech.

In fact, he began scripting his new persona on the very day the election result was declared, when no BJP central leader was in Ahmedabad to share his glory. Mr Modi is conscious of the fact that Gujaratis as a community feel strongly that Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel was not given his due and that Morarji Desai was not properly respected in Delhi. Now, the State has been blessed with another ‘strongman’ and this alone trumped the Leuva Patel factor that Mr Keshubhai Patel and the Congress hoped would cut Mr Modi to size. Narrow caste confines were transcended, but caste was and is by no means irrelevant.

Hence, in bowing before Mr Keshubhai Patel after a convincing victory, Mr Modi was actually paying homage to the powerful Patel community that stood by him, diminishing its own stalwart, to respect the State’s sentiment to send its own son to Delhi. And it has certainly put him on the highway. This could also be the meaning of his public apology to six crore Gujaratis for any hurt caused in preceding years, during his victory speech that day. The metropolitan media has questioned if he was trying to paper over the 2002 riots, but Muslims are not six crore. More likely, he was reaching out to everyone, including Muslims, from the dominant Patels to the followers of other stalwarts he has fallen out with over the years, many of whom are now in the Congress. A call for unity from a winner could be a signal to possible national allies of an intention to be magnanimous.

The first big political test, however, will be the election of the new BJP president. If the RSS manages to impose Mr Nitin Gadkari again after a lustreless first term, Mr Modi will lose his shine. RSS as a parent organisation could not prevent Vishva Hindu Parishad leader Pravin Togadia from joining hands with Mr Keshubhai Patel in the Gujarat election where so much was at stake. It follows that RSS must retreat from politics; its interventions have served no good cause. Grave challenges face the nation. The last few years have witnessed unbridled corruption, unending mega scams, galloping price-rise and corporate-driven economic reforms by the UPA Government. Simultaneously scam-ridden populist schemes like the Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment Guarantee Act, and now a direct cash transfer scheme under Aadhar, where 3.84 out of 4.10 lakh cards have already had to be cancelled for being bogus, have bankrupted the economy and further squeezed the middle class that is being denied subsidy even as incomes decline. So far, no political party has seriously addressed any of these issues. Mr Modi’s task is to show that he cares, and that he can make a difference.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SaiK »

Can someone list the loss/gain Modi got by appointing his own Lokayukta Justice?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by devesh »

support of big biz sharks to Modi is a double-edged sword. I stand by my previous assertion. the more INC does to prevent Modi from rising to the gaddi, the better. the more bridges they burn, they more people/allies/friends/enemies whose toes they have to step on, to crush Modi, the better.

in the end, if INC succeeds in foisting a sham of a govt in 2014, and scuttles BJP/NDA plans, it will be good. let them run their ammunition dry, with all sorts of premature air raids on Modi. for Modi, there is a simple target: steer the BJP toward being the single largest party in the Lok Sabha. that's it. that is greater legitimacy than anything else.

for 2014, that is the best of my expectations. and I think the best possible outcome of all.

people will notice this dynamic: on the issue of Modi, the INC, Left, Libs, p-Seculars, Regionalists in the GV, Islamics, and Christists, ALL band together and sing a unanimous voice. finally, there is something which brings all of them overtly onto one platform and publicly reveal their hand. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the more Modi can be such a lightning rod, the better. the people have been confused for too long. they need to see the truth. no better way than this.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Same MB Shah whom Cong appointed for mining scam inquiry. Except that Lokayukta Act passed by Cong govt in 86 prohibits Lokayukta from hearing matters already before Inquiry Commission
Cong, GPP want M B Shah commission dissolved

AHMEDABAD: The state Congress and Gujarat Parivartan Party have demanded that the M B Shah Commission be dissolved. They want investigation into the 17 alleged scams worth Rs 1.07 lakh crore, to be handed over to the Lokayukta. Congress leader Shankersinh Vaghela said that there was no point in the state government's corruption being investigated the one-man commission appointed by the administration itself.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... ium=tweets
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

+1 Devesh garu. Brilliantly articulated only.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by devesh »

Hari ji,

we talked about it before too. Modi makes all the assorted cockroaches to run their mouths off without thinking.
only he has that ability to bring out that visceral hatred out in the open.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

^That part I well know Devesh garu.

But what I liked best in your post was the articulation of a do-able goal for 2014 - becoming the single largest party in LS. Bulls eye - hit the nail on the ehad with that one. In a stroke, that goal clears away a lot of confusion and roads to nowhere. I too now fully agree with this prescription. Its time the Sangh stepped back and let NM take control of the party officially (replace Gadkari as BJP National prez or at least as co-president inwhich case he gets to keep the Guj gaddi as well)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Important points from Lokayukta Judgement of SC

Conclusion

The present Governor has misjudged her role and has insisted, that under the Act, 1986, the Council of Ministers has no role to play in the appointment of the Lokayukta, and that she could therefore, fill it up in consultation with the Chief Justice of the Gujarat High Court and the Leader of Opposition. Such attitude is not in conformity, or in consonance with the democratic set up of government envisaged in our Constitution. Under the scheme of our Constitution, the Governor is synonymous with the State Government, and can take an independent decision upon his/her own discretion only when he/she acts as a statutory authority under a particular Act, or under the exception(s), provided in the Constitution itself.

Therefore, the appointment of the Lokayukta can be made by the Governor, as the Head of the State, only with the aid and advice of the Council of Ministers, and not independently as a Statutory Authority.

(ii) The Governor consulted the Attorney General of India for legal advice, and communicated with the Chief Justice of the Gujarat High Court directly, without taking into confidence, the Council of Ministers. In this respect, she was wrongly advised to the effect that she had to act as a statutory authority and not as the Head of the State.

http://deshgujarat.com/2013/01/02/impor ... ent-of-sc/
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ShyamSP »

^^ idiocy across the board - Governor, Chief justice, Opposition leader, Attorney general of India, and latest Supreme court. All are criminals and conspiring to get one guy out.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

^ point to note is that "all these are nominated posts".
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by krisna »

Master of the National Game
Modi had every reason to consider the worst-case scenario. The forces ranged against him in 2002 were formidable. Apart from the liberal intelligentsia and media that held him personally responsible for the post-Godhra riots, it was an open secret that a powerful section around Prime Minister Vajpayee was less than enthusiastic about him. Any electoral mishap, including a failure to secure a resounding victory, would have spelt the end of his political career. For Modi, it was a do-or-die battle.

In hindsight, that short flight to Ahmedabad was also one of those rarest of rare moments: When a flicker of doubt crossed the mind of a man who has today earned a reputation for being the last word in political decisiveness. Never before—not even in those dark days of the late 1990s when he was more or less barred from even visiting Gujarat—had I ever seen a hesitant Modi. And never subsequently have I seen his fierce sense of mission falter. Modi is a man blessed with astonishing self-resolve.
Modi has emerged a leader you can either love or loathe but can't ignore.
There are three significant points of value-addition that Modi is likely to bring to the BJP table. The first is the youth vote. Gujarat has clearly demonstrated that Modi's most enthusiastic support comes from the below-35s, which explains why Modi's election rallies often convey a rock concert mood. They are passionately attracted by his ability to both sell a development dream and translate some of this into reality. In a party often seen as being antediluvian, Modi stands out as the leader with strongly modernist impulses. His 3D campaign may have seemed a needless gimmick—akin to the helicopter that never fails to draw an incremental, gawking crowd at political rallies—but Modi calculated it would be viewed as an example of his technology-friendly approach in tune with Gujarat's aspirational ethos.
The Gujarat experience has also pointed to Modi's hold over women's imagination. A social psychologist may be able to better explain if this appeal is centred on raw machismo, his status as a single man (something that has also worked to the advantage of Naveen Patnaik in Orissa) or something more complex. Whatever the reason, this appeal is advantageous for a party which sees women and youth as weak links in its social architecture.
The third feature of Modi's political strength is his ability to inspire the BJP's bedrock social constituency-the middle classes. This following owes to Modi's three perceived strengths: His passion for rapid development, his decisiveness and his personal integrity. In the 1990s, a much smaller middle class rallied behind the BJP because it was seen to be 'different' from the rest of the political pack. Today, a much larger and more fiercely aspirational middle class may well view Modi as the no-nonsense alternative to a bunch of narrow-minded, self-serving and venal political class.
Instead, he invoked Gujarati asmita which incorporated the 'garv se kaho hum Hindu hain' theme to something larger and non-contentious. In the process, he subsumed the caste mobilisation that had been a feature of Congress resurgence in the 1980s.
Modi has two cards that have been kept in reserve. The first is the element of class that Modi touched upon tangentially in the final stages of the Gujarat campaign, as a retort to Rahul Gandhi. "Your father, his grandfather and his mother were Prime Ministers," he said in a few rallies, "but my father wasn't even a sarpanch." This was a direct assault on both privilege and the Gandhi family's remarkable sense of entitlement.
:rotfl:
The second reserve card is Modi's membership of a backward caste. He has never invoked his obc status, not least because casteism goes against his commitment to an all-embracing Indian nationalism. (God bless him with long life to lead India or at least change the political contours forever )But this is a theme that is rarely proclaimed on public platforms. It is a message transmitted through the powerful bush telegraph. In theory, Modi has the weapon to replenish his larger appeal with the OBC card. The leaders of caste parties in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar know this and are awkward about confronting him frontally on the social justice theme.
Negatives
Modi's strengths are known to the BJP but yet there are misgivings on two counts. First, Modi is seen to be too much of an individualist. Despite being a former RSS pracharak who was trained to receive instructions and follow them, Modi is an argumentative Indian. Many RSS veterans are wary of his constant questioning of certitudes.

Second, flowing from this is the belief that Modi lacks the flexibility to manage the disagreeable world of coalition politics. With Nitish Kumar determined to walk out of the NDA in the event of the BJP naming him as the candidate for the top political job, there is a fear in the party that the BJP would be left in 'majestic isolation', as happened between 1990 and 1996.
Within the parivar, it is often said that Modi has unlearnt everything he imbibed as a swayamsevak. This is untrue. One attribute that he has never lost sight of is the strategic virtue of patience over impulsiveness. In his 12 years at the helm in Gandhinagar, he has rarely overplayed his hand. He has never been a man in a tearing hurry, even while aware of his ultimate destination.

Modi does not have to go begging to the BJP. Pressure from below will compel the BJP to come to him. After that, the battle for India will formally begin. Knowing Modi, he will be fighting to win. He always has.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

But the new Lok Ayuktha will try his level best to damage Modi. You can expect a flood of allegations from Congress the minute he is appointed. Leftish media will join. Delli4 of BJP will keep quite and ensure the best chance of BJP win in 2014 will go out of hand. One thing that can change is the premeture elections after geenral budget. Decision on AP is also expected to be taken in one month. This will not give sufficient time to Modi to emarge as the BJP PM choice. At the same time Lok Ayuktha also will not have much time to damage Modi.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

ShyamSP wrote:^^ idiocy across the board - Governor, Chief justice, Opposition leader, Attorney general of India, and latest Supreme court. All are criminals and conspiring to get one guy out.
It is not idiocy. We are all having illusions about India. It is not an independent or democratic nation. Period. We have Robert Clives and their Mir Jaffers and Mir Qasims with few brown sahebs who are like the erstwhile Justice party. The entire system is subservient to the viceroy. Any revolt is considered as mutiny and will be oppressed like Jalianwala bagh.

I am not venting any frustration. :) Just analyze folks and the illusions are only because we have a flag and currency and some icons of pride (mirage).

Let us see how far it will go.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Narayana Rao wrote:But the new Lok Ayuktha will try his level best to damage Modi. You can expect a flood of allegations from Congress the minute he is appointed. Leftish media will join. Delli4 of BJP will keep quite and ensure the best chance of BJP win in 2014 will go out of hand. One thing that can change is the premeture elections after geenral budget. Decision on AP is also expected to be taken in one month. This will not give sufficient time to Modi to emarge as the BJP PM choice. At the same time Lok Ayuktha also will not have much time to damage Modi.
See if Modi is alive and not in jail like Jagan then all this PM candidacy etc are unnecessary. Indian election preperation is actually useless to do anything before three months. Once he survives and if the elections are fair he will win.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Rampy »

^^ I am not sure if we should be that negative about the lokayukta. Modi has shown in last 10'yrs how to use INC strength against it be it the NGO's or the diggy dog vomit etc. Lokayukta is INC strength and all know it. Any hasty move from INC will be bad. It needs to be seen how Modi uses it against them for 2013 and also 2014.
Mr. Vaghela has already asked to move cases to lokayukta, imagine what young voters would do to INC if the they see Modi being harassed
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by niran »

Narayana Rao wrote:But the new Lok Ayuktha will try his level best to damage Modi. You can expect a flood of allegations from Congress the minute he is appointed. Leftish media will join. Delli4 of BJP will keep quite and ensure the best chance of BJP win in 2014 will go out of hand. One thing that can change is the premeture elections after geenral budget. Decision on AP is also expected to be taken in one month. This will not give sufficient time to Modi to emarge as the BJP PM choice. At the same time Lok Ayuktha also will not have much time to damage Modi.
fikar not saar, NaMo is ready, as opposed to not ready half a decade ago, gangress alleges a thing it will meet the same fate
the poster campaign of malnurished hungry kids of Gujarat met.
NaMo has displayed lately, he turns allegations against him into a shame for his opponents, gona be real fun to watch.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

BJP lead by Modi aiming for only the single largest party is an absolute KLP_ and a clear undershot. Besides what are the chances that the single largest party is not able to attract a coterie to be able to form the governement at the centre.

Bhai log this kind of ideation IMO is coming out because a lot of you have spend so much time cussing the leaders in BJP that you have driven yourself into the corner.

NM has displayed every strength that a strong clearheaded leader must show except the ability to work in a chaotic coalition atmosphere which is what forming a government at the centre requires. For the twin goals of 'Delhi ki Gaddi'+'Nationally relevant policies' we have seen only a wheeler dealer like Narasimha Rao becoming successful.

NM has to display one last kalaa. What would he bring to the negotiating table.

My hunch (note the tentativeness) is that NM will be able to negotiate well with the rest of the Sangh. The known unknown is when can the negotiation end because that is entirely dependent on what is the perception of the likely date for elections. NM because of the relentless Kongi attack can easily become a liability if the initiative at national level moves into Kongi hands. Basically this is a very delicate dicey situation that Sangh constituents have to deal with. And if they trump it we are going to see a big degradation of the Kongi propaganda machinery.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Muppalla wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:^^ idiocy across the board - Governor, Chief justice, Opposition leader, Attorney general of India, and latest Supreme court. All are criminals and conspiring to get one guy out.
It is not idiocy. We are all having illusions about India. It is not an independent or democratic nation. Period. We have Robert Clives and their Mir Jaffers and Mir Qasims with few brown sahebs who are like the erstwhile Justice party. The entire system is subservient to the viceroy. Any revolt is considered as mutiny and will be oppressed like Jalianwala bagh.

I am not venting any frustration. :) Just analyze folks and the illusions are only because we have a flag and currency and some icons of pride (mirage).

Let us see how far it will go.
Welcome to the club bro. Now pan your gaze towards BJP.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

In Kochi

Image
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by johneeG »

ShyamSP wrote:
johneeG wrote: :rotfl: :mrgreen:

---
I think Modi becoming PM is more easy than many people think. The critical point is the Modi enjoys the support of business networks(particularly the big sharks). As far as I know, Tata endorsed him for PM-ship. Ambanis are gujjus anyway. And if push comes to shove, SP can be made to support through chota bhai. Jaya supports Modi. Most of the NDA has kept quiet(except Nitis), which means they are fine with Modi candidature.

Apart from all these calculations, Modi enjoys real public support. Not just in Guj, but across India. This can really make a 20-seat(or even more) impact for BJP. That means, BJP can win additional 20 seat, if Modi is the PM. Many non-BJP voters are enthusiastic about Modi for PM.

Finally, even the videsi players like UK and US seem to be fine with Modi for PM.

In short, Modi has more chances of winning than many of his supporters and opposers think.

There are two parties: JDU and TDP that are going pawki by the day. The seculars would be hoping that these two play the spoilsport.
I don't know if you follow elections thread. TDP doesn't fetch much votes with (p)secular politics and can't play spoilsport with respect to BJP as both BJP and TDP are mutually exclusive in terms of vote banks as of now (may have had common votebank in the past).

TDP is extremely boxed in by INC which sliced AP into regional, religious, caste votebanks to extreme. Any public support to BJP by TDP is unnecessary till elections as such deal can be directed to net loss for them by INC. BJP has to show they can win more seats and bring INC seats down, all non-congress parties will automatically come to its support. They need to fix their own stupidity (KA and UP for example) than cribbing on JDU, TDP, and other potential allies.

TDP is extremely careful with their strategies and tactics and even wording which can be even seen in recent Telangana all-party meeting by home minister Shinde.
No, I am not following election thread.

My comment on JDU and TDP was not about vote shares, but post-electoral alliance. Even if NDA is in a position to form the Govt with the help of JDU and TDP, the seculars would be hoping that these two parties will play spoilsport and try for a third-front(backed by the kongis).

My observation on TDP going pawki is not based solely on TDP not supporting Modi's candidature before elections, it is just a case in point. Both TDP and JDU are going pawki, in general. Nitis visited pakiland recently. He is taking his secularism seriously, or thats the pretense from his side.

TDP is simply becoming a shadow of kongis in all aspects of policy. There is almost no difference in policy matters between kongis and TDP. Reservations, cash transfer, secularism, caste-politics, Telangana, whatever other issue you name it. One cannot see any clear policy difference between TDP and Kongis. It is very much like BJP at centre. CBN has transformed TDP into a kongi b-team. The only difference he can cite is the degree of corruption and nepotism, all other policies are same same. TDP initiate a program, kongis follow it. Kongis start a program, TDP apes it. Both are competing for the same space. In true sense, they have become ideologically similar. So, TDP has lost its anti-kongi point.

CBN's worst mistake is ditching 'Telugu Pride' point. He is not even able to counter Jagan's brazen EJ games. He cannot even talk about it openly. BJP is secondary in AP. But, TDP is unable to take a stand against the rampant corrupt EJism in AP. If the major party cannot even raise this issue in the fear of losing few minority votes(which are anyway suspect), what is the use of this party.

Even on T, CBN has no real stand. His stand is same as Kongis. And this, from a party that is named Telugu Desam. Oh, the irony! If CBN supports T, then he should say so, and prepare for the affects. If CBN wants united AP, then he should say so and prepare for the results. Instead, neither here nor there nonsense and trying to fool both sides does not cut it. If he does not want to play this T game setup by Kongis, then he should say so. But, what CBN is doing is aping the Kongis trick for trick. It is not a question of whether you lose some seats or votes. The real point is whether people lose trust in your leadership and party policy. If TDP is true to its founding principle, then it should have stuck with united AP stance and defended that stance as robustly as possible. Any temporary setback in 2009, would have been corrected by 2013. I can understand the initial reaction, but after some time, a clear policy for/against/we-are-not-going-to-play-this-game T should have been articulated. It was not done and there really is no policy on T except mere politicking.

BTW, politicking on important issue regardless of the inconvenience to ordinary people is a hallmark of the kongis. The least one can do is be transparent about one's policy(specially in important matters) instead of playing political games.

The real problem is that CBN has leadership issues. He is unable to lead properly and comes across as very defensive and overtly cautious(which makes him resort to opportunism). It is this defensiveness and opportunism that was exploited by YSR. CBN's leadership is similar to captaincy of Dhoni...he is waiting for things to fall in the right place for him, instead of being pro-active. The same problem exists with BJP at center.

Modi provided a backdoor to CBN by inviting Balakrishna. Balakrishna could have attended Modi's swearing ceremony and TDP could still posture it as a private invitation. CBN did not take it and displayed his insecurity. CBN is unable to defend allying with BJP, and this is a failure. Whether he wants to ally with BJP or not is irrelevant. The position must be that TDP will ally with any anti-kongi force at center, zimple. Just take a look at KCR! KCR has jumped from NDA to UPA(and may jump back to NDA), has he been afraid? Nope, he defends himself brazenly. If KCR can defend his position, why can't CBN? To me this is a leadership failure which has muddled the party policies making it a clone of its opponent.

Given CBN's general trajectory, I think he would be hesitant to make any post-poll alliance with BJP(under Modi) even if they are in a position to form Govt. I think Ramoji Rao will play pivotal role in this relationship...

The success of Kongis is mostly due to the failure of their opponents. Their opponents' greatest failure is aping the policies of Kongis. The biggest changes in the Indian political landscape have come when the Kongi policies were questioned and invalidated. Modi's success and CBN's failure is in this framework.

---
Muppalla wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:^^ idiocy across the board - Governor, Chief justice, Opposition leader, Attorney general of India, and latest Supreme court. All are criminals and conspiring to get one guy out.
It is not idiocy. We are all having illusions about India. It is not an independent or democratic nation. Period. We have Robert Clives and their Mir Jaffers and Mir Qasims with few brown sahebs who are like the erstwhile Justice party. The entire system is subservient to the viceroy. Any revolt is considered as mutiny and will be oppressed like Jalianwala bagh.

I am not venting any frustration. :) Just analyze folks and the illusions are only because we have a flag and currency and some icons of pride (mirage).

Let us see how far it will go.
Not just India, saar. This is the reality in most of the world, with perhaps a rare exception. Its just that this reality is wrapped in sophisticated narrative that confuses people into believing that we are not living in middle ages(or colonial ages). Only technology and rise of middle class is the difference. Rest all is same same only. Not just in India, but most of the world...
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

CBN is highly insecure and had the bagage of cheating NTR for kicking him out. He has to live with the image of backstabbing person and INC continue to call him untrusty and backstabbing person. The counter attacks by YSR had seriously weakend him. But slowly many in AP (all areas) got sick of INC rule and know that Jagan is nothing but INC in another name. So there is some movement towards TDP. One basic feature of TDP rule was the comparitively strict administration and control. People are wanting that after the criminla looting of YSR gang and the present INC rule. Let us not forget TDP has some solid vote base on par with INC and Jagan may not have made too much roads into that. So we can nt yet write him off. I was in AP resently and spoken with many people and they are of the view TDP may do well. But the main changer will be money and TDP simply can not fight INC on money terms and Jagan can simply outspent every one inclduing INC. So some wind in favour of TDP with lot of challenges. Too early to write of CBN.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

The Man to Reckon With if You Want to Do Business in India

Image

http://www.inc.com/gautam-chikermane/me ... -modi.html
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Yesterday he was equated to Kasab by super secular patriot Nafisa Ali and today to Owasi by exemplar muslim Indian

Image
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

Re. Sushupti Post subject: Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of IndiaPosted: 03 Jan 2013 22:25

Somebody early on mentioned the low security profile of NM. I did not take it seriously then. But was the photograph taken just after the election win or is it more of a norm.

If it is the norm it is irresponsible. Assasinations of Indian VIPs is one of the major ways Mallechas have tried to control India.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vina »

Contrasting ideas of India indeed. TOI(let) says in it's home page that Mohanroa Bhagwat proclaims that "Rape Happens in India, not in Bharat" .. Whatever that wugga wugga about Hypothetical Bharat is, that is simply ridiculous, and these Hindutva types want to be taken seriously? WTF!

Seriously, this Mohan Bhagwat needs to do some more readings of the puranas and the kathas etc. Has he heard of the story of Asthavakra( was it or was it someone else..dont remember exactly) ? How and why he was born deformed in 8 places.. Does he know the story of a great sage who was so smitten by Ashtavakra's mother and forced himself on her, even when she was carrying the baby..despite her entreaties that she was carrying and that there is no space for anymore inside her , and how the "great sage's sperm cannot be impotent" and how the baby in her womb put his foot out and spoiled the sage's orgasm and got cursed ?

Our scriptures (vedas, upanishads) and also those of other faiths (Bible old and new testaments, Koran) captured the sum total of the human experience in it's entirety , warts and all, at that point in time.. not a sanitized and sterile, ascpetic version. Now Mohan Bhagwat claims that there were no rapes in "Bharat".. How about Murder ? None again ? Cheating? None Again.. He needs to go out more often and get a strong coffee!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

Hit and Run alert. :lol:

Vina ji you really love your car and the high of road kill you get out of it. hein ji.

Too bad NM is on the other side of the divide. RSS and NM are working at cross purpose at least right now.

So that should actually be a good thing Na. :)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by prahaar »

Funny that dynastic entities like Owaisis do not wake up some whereas mistakes of a certain chosen ones put a admonition on immediate activation.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

^^Vina, welcome to the thread. Since I started this thread, let me just state that while Modi-sceptics are welcome to debate logically and backed by data- Trolling behavior and consistently subpar logic will not be tolerated beyond a certain point.

This thread focuses on Moditva and (to be fair to both sides) on the ideology espoused by the Dynasty and their backers like yourself.

The RSS view on rapes is not a subject matter for this thread. So while a few replies can be allowed, any extended debate will have to take place elsewhere.

Anyway - the simple answer to your post...Bhagwat has stated his opinion which he is entitled to. He may well be right - it all depends on the data. And in case the data captured does not represent the full picture (as is claimed even for a country like the US) - then the answer can ONLY be obtained by mounting a campaign to capture the full and complete data on rural vs urban rapes and to encourage women who have been victims to come forward without fear. Any and every person who claims with conviction that Bhagwat is wrong or that he is bound to be correct is a MORON - who doesn't the first thing about science or scientific attitudes.
Last edited by Arjun on 04 Jan 2013 15:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Neela »

Sushupti wrote:Yesterday he was equated to Kasab by super secular patriot Nafisa Ali and today to Owasi by exemplar muslim Indian

Image

So per Javed, a neighborhood in Hyderbad is the same as a state. The lengths people go to stick to sick beliefs is mind boggling.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

^^^ and that too a Owaisi infested place in Hyderabad.

Intellectual hein uncle ji.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by kapilrdave »

X-posting to epics thread - http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1387375
vina wrote:Contrasting ideas of India indeed. TOI(let) says in it's home page that Mohanroa Bhagwat proclaims that "Rape Happens in India, not in Bharat" .. Whatever that wugga wugga about Hypothetical Bharat is, that is simply ridiculous, and these Hindutva types want to be taken seriously? WTF!

Seriously, this Mohan Bhagwat needs to do some more readings of the puranas and the kathas etc. Has he heard of the story of Asthavakra( was it or was it someone else..dont remember exactly) ? How and why he was born deformed in 8 places.. Does he know the story of a great sage who was so smitten by Ashtavakra's mother and forced himself on her, even when she was carrying the baby..despite her entreaties that she was carrying and that there is no space for anymore inside her , and how the "great sage's sperm cannot be impotent" and how the baby in her womb put his foot out and spoiled the sage's orgasm and got cursed ?

Our scriptures (vedas, upanishads) and also those of other faiths (Bible old and new testaments, Koran) captured the sum total of the human experience in it's entirety , warts and all, at that point in time.. not a sanitized and sterile, ascpetic version. Now Mohan Bhagwat claims that there were no rapes in "Bharat".. How about Murder ? None again ? Cheating? None Again.. He needs to go out more often and get a strong coffee!
:shock: :shock: :shock:

Are you trying to say Kahola raped Sujata?
Do you know what stature Astavakra has in Hinduism?
How this is related to Modi vs Dynasty?
Are you trying to say Hinduism promotes rapes hence Modi should not be elected?
You picked up toilet's headline related to Bhagvat (who knows this if this is a not tweaked headline, as always) to bash modi? Do you really have to do it to defend dynasty?

For everyone to read... http://omshivam.wordpress.com/sanatan-h ... shtavakra/
Last edited by kapilrdave on 04 Jan 2013 16:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Its important to track the public pronouncements of Modi - to understand what 'Moditva' really portends....In that spirit, here's his latest on the need for his partymen to set new standards in public life:

Modi exhorts partymen not to rest on laurels
Chief Minister Narendra Modi has exhorted the BJP’s rank and file not to rest on their laurels following the thumping victory in the Assembly elections but try to make the party popular among the people.

Addressing the state BJP’s office bearers here for the first time after the elections, Modi said that the party workers have no right to sit idle as the historic victory has given them a new responsibility to assess the changing mind-set of the people.

The detailed analyses of the victory shows that the Gujarat BJP has a challenge ahead to set new standards in public life, Modi told the state level office bearers who met here for drawing up plans for the forthcoming by-elections to the local self-governments and panchayats scheduled next month.

Modi said that the people’s increased awareness is changing the qualities of public life. The election results in Gujarat were the expressions of people’s desire to change the agenda of public life and pointers to the direction to which they want the country to go, said the Chief Minister.

Gujarat BJP has now become the power house of the country’s BJP, Modi said adding that the enthusiasm of the just concluded elections should be taken forward to the booth levels for the local self-government polls and the Lok Sabha elections too.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

Arjun wrote:Its important to track the public pronouncements of Modi - to understand what 'Moditva' really portends....
True. In the same vein I'd also urge a tracking of the public pronouncements of the dynasties. However, sadly, the UPA chairperson and single most powerful individual politician in the country has given zero media interviews. Yup, zero. Same with Rahul. The arrogance is breathtaking. Indians not serfs or coolies anymore, the Raj is long over, officially at least ....someone should tell madamji.....hmmph.

The dynasty's public pronouncements we see are all from dynasty bagholders and stooges who can easily be disowned when inconvenient. How convenient only.

Its in UPA's deeds that we have to look for their ideology, not in their web of spin.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

This pretend reticence is to enable the hagiographers in the Media to do their jobs and the lazy sort of Indian to feel that everything is 'Theek hai'.

The 'Theek hai Indian' needs some opium to be able to suspend his power of discretion. In step the polished English language media. But this pliant media would not be able to do its job if the high command and her munna open their mouth and put their intelligence on display.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by johneeG »

Arjun wrote:^^Vina, welcome to the thread. Since I started this thread, let me just state that while Modi-sceptics are welcome to debate logically and backed by data- Trolling behavior and consistently subpar logic will not be tolerated beyond a certain point.

This thread focuses on Moditva and (to be fair to both sides) on the ideology espoused by the Dynasty and their backers like yourself.

The RSS view on rapes is not a subject matter for this thread. So while a few replies can be allowed, any extended debate will have to take place elsewhere.

Anyway - the simple answer to your post...Bhagwat has stated his opinion which he is entitled to. He may well be right - it all depends on the data. And in case the data captured does not represent the full picture (as is claimed even for a country like the US) - then the answer can ONLY be obtained by mounting a campaign to capture the full and complete data on rural vs urban rapes and to encourage women who have been victims to come forward without fear. Any and every person who claims with conviction that Bhagwat is wrong or that he is bound to be correct is a MORON - who doesn't the first thing about science or scientific attitudes.
+108. Good point. It would be better to make conclusions after reading the data(if there is such a comprehensive compilation of data in the first place). Instead of jumping up and down as soon as RSS is mentioned. I am sure it may have looked like a silly statement from the perspective of 'ivory tower Praetorian Guard', but Bhagwat cannot be proved wrong unless it is shown clearly beyond reasonable doubt that rapes in rural India are as much as urban India. And that discussion would be off-topic on this thread, it seems to me. Infact, even the original post seems off-topic to me.

BTW, rape is not murder. They are two different crimes with different social dynamics. The number of murders cannot be compared with number of rapes. Apples and cabbages. Can't be compared.

And, it seems to me that when Bhagwat mentioned 'Bharat', he was not refferring to the ancient Bharat but the modern day rural India. So, bringing in the ancient incidents is disingenuous. Even, if we accept this strawman and debate on it. The number of 'rapes' in ancient literature is far far less than modern day incidents.

Also, it is wrong to say that all religions are equal equal. Because they are not. BTW, the latest secular non-sense is that rapes are result of praying to Goddesses by Hindus. Imagine that! But, Hindus are not praying to Goddess alone. Hindus pray to Gods also, so following the secular logic, there must be male rapings, no? Maybe that 'logic' would also have been peddled, but their pet religions have male god, so this 'logic' is not touched.

The rape protest started as liberals vs seculars. Then, the seculars infiltrated the liberals and are now slowly trying to divert the liberal angst against Hindutva(and entire Hinduism). Thats the modus operandi.

This would have perhaps been successful but for the pathetic record of Xism and Islam in women's rights issue. So, unfortunately for them, they have no bragging rights. The next best alternative is to focus only on Hinduism. If that does not sell, then the final option is to do an equal equal and say that all religions are BS. Of course, even while saying that all religions are equal equal, only the focus is on Bhagawat! Very revealing... even if the person himself is unaware of it.
ravi_g wrote:This pretend reticence is to enable the hagiographers in the Media to do their jobs and the lazy sort of Indian to feel that everything is 'Theek hai'.

The 'Theek hai Indian' needs some opium to be able to suspend his power of discretion. In step the polished English language media. But this pliant media would not be able to do its job if the high command and her munna open their mouth and put their intelligence on display.
+108.
Narayana Rao wrote:CBN is highly insecure and had the bagage of cheating NTR for kicking him out. He has to live with the image of backstabbing person and INC continue to call him untrusty and backstabbing person. The counter attacks by YSR had seriously weakend him. But slowly many in AP (all areas) got sick of INC rule and know that Jagan is nothing but INC in another name. So there is some movement towards TDP. One basic feature of TDP rule was the comparitively strict administration and control. People are wanting that after the criminla looting of YSR gang and the present INC rule. Let us not forget TDP has some solid vote base on par with INC and Jagan may not have made too much roads into that. So we can nt yet write him off. I was in AP resently and spoken with many people and they are of the view TDP may do well. But the main changer will be money and TDP simply can not fight INC on money terms and Jagan can simply outspent every one inclduing INC. So some wind in favour of TDP with lot of challenges. Too early to write of CBN.
Speaking for myself, I don't find any fault with CBN replacing NTR. Its the leadership style that I am not impressed with. And lack of any core ideology. Yet, I am still hoping that TDP will win a landslide in the next election. My hope is based on the absolute failure of the present regime. TDP may win because of opponents failures and kongis are surviving because of TDP's failures. The situation is similar to UP. TDP is becoming like BSP and kongis are like SP. And Hyd is becoming a hitech version of Azamgarh.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Which brings us to a nice jump off point. What exactly is the status of women in this Moditva.

After all technically they should be the majority if our sex selection murderous rampage had not changed the ratio.

How do they get hold of power and tell men what the priorities should be?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by abhischekcc »

Hari Seldon wrote:
Arjun wrote:Its important to track the public pronouncements of Modi - to understand what 'Moditva' really portends....
True. In the same vein I'd also urge a tracking of the public pronouncements of the dynasties. However, sadly, the UPA chairperson and single most powerful individual politician in the country has given zero media interviews. Yup, zero. Same with Rahul. The arrogance is breathtaking. Indians not serfs or coolies anymore, the Raj is long over, officially at least ....someone should tell madamji.....hmmph.

The dynasty's public pronouncements we see are all from dynasty bagholders and stooges who can easily be disowned when inconvenient. How convenient only.

Its in UPA's deeds that we have to look for their ideology, not in their web of spin.
Oh no. Madam has given one interview to Burkha Dutt, who was fawning orgasmically in her presense and being the first to interview the Italian marble.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

New prescription for Vinaji.

Read Bharatiya Puranas - 18 of them over 18 months. Then read Ramayana and Mahabharata in 2 more months. Total course lasts 20 months.

Then 2014 elections will come and your illness will be cured. You will also know the difference between Bharat and India.

P.S- Make sure that you repeat Virata Parva of MB at the end of your course, which will take a weak. It is said that when Virata Parva is read, the enemies of Bharat will be defeated :8

P.P.S- Diet regimen (Pathya): please stay away from NM related news/articles etc., they are causing too much Diarrhea which intern is causing loss of important fluids in your brain.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by prahaar »

Theoji, that is a great point. If someone in the know can comment on NM's two initiatives (effects, progress, consequences), which I believe were vastly unpopular in some parts of Gujarat:
1. Massive drive against female infanticide - it is said there was high anger against NM for "messing up" in these matters
2. Massive drive against Gutkha, which is prevalent in Rural + Urban Gujarat
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by johneeG »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Which brings us to a nice jump off point. What exactly is the status of women in this Moditva.
Modi's track record speaks for itself. The action on ground is what counts, not words. And by that standard, Gujarat under Modi is far better place for women than most of India.

BTW, it is instructive that Modi's main supporter group involves women. Women and youth are the main pillars of Modi. That in itself is enough to tell one about Moditva...
Theo_Fidel wrote: After all technically they should be the majority if our sex selection murderous rampage had not changed the ratio.
Shouldn't number of women be equal to men(almost)? I didn't understand why they would be majority or minority?
Theo_Fidel wrote: How do they get hold of power and tell men what the priorities should be?
You are making several assumptions:
a) You are assuming that all (or most) women have same priorities.
b) You are assuming that men have different priorities from women.
c) You are assuming that all (or most) women want to tell men what the priorities should be.
d) You are assuming that women are not already telling men what priorities should be.

Even if one accepts all those assumptions, this topic, it seems to me, is off-topic here.
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