Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

anmol
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby anmol » 29 Mar 2013 22:41

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:shock:

Sushupti
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 29 Mar 2013 22:57

Gujarat gets a true friend and guide in Mr. Gingrich in America

Image

Speaker Gingrich: “there are a lot of US cities that can learn from Modi’s mantra of Red Carpet not Red Tape”

Speaker Gingrich: “I join my friends from the House (of Representatives) in hoping that you (CM Modi) will visit the US soon”

Speaker Gingrich: “I would love the CM to come visit the US … and will do all I can to make sure that invitation is expedited from our side”

http://deshgujarat.com/2013/03/29/gujar ... n-america/

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 29 Mar 2013 23:05

Sushupti wrote:
Narendra Modi through the Eyes of Gujarati Muslims, Christians and…
Author(s) : Madhu Purnima Kishwar

When some pockets of Gujarat were convulsed by violent riots in February 2002, I too accepted the version presented by the national media as well as our activist friends and assumed that Modi was complicit in the Gujarat riots of 2002. Therefore, I too signed statements against Modi, published articles sent to Manushi indicting Gujarat government. We also raised funds for riot victims. However, I refrained from writing anything under my name because I did not get the time to visit Gujarat and experience and assess the situation first hand........

http://www.manushi.in/articles.php?arti ... pe=&pgno=1


Very interesting read.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Lilo » 29 Mar 2013 23:17

Anmol ji,

Iam quite intrigued by the factions in Sangh parivar which detest Modi. Can you get your Sangh parivar guy to speak up more on the basis for this fear and loathing (when you get your next chance) ...?

I tried looking online but i came a cropper except the below cryptic quote.. may be he can tell if the below quote means anything..?

Shortly before I left Gujarat, one RSS leader described his own feelings in a bitter sigh: “Shivling mein bichhu baitha hai. Na usko haath se utaar sakte ho, na usko joota maar sakte ho.”


PS: The above is from another lengthy profile done this time by a known Modi hater ( VINOD K. JOSE ) in Caravan



shushupti wrote:Narendra Modi through the Eyes of Gujarati Muslims, Christians and…
Author(s) : Madhu Purnima Kishwar

When some pockets of Gujarat were convulsed by violent riots in February 2002, I too accepted the version presented by the national media as well as our activist friends and assumed that Modi was complicit in the Gujarat riots of 2002. Therefore, I too signed statements against Modi, published articles sent to Manushi indicting Gujarat government. We also raised funds for riot victims. However, I refrained from writing anything under my name because I did not get the time to visit Gujarat and experience and assess the situation first hand........

http://www.manushi.in/articles.php?arti ... pe=&pgno=1


Yes its a very enlightening and interesting read (9 pages and more to come) - shows Modi as the Man he truly is .. a People's Man . Not just another "Hindu Hriday Samrat". Also speaks on the basis for VHP's (the babu bajrangi lot) apparent hostility for NaMo - because he didnt shield them for their role in Guj Riots.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby anmol » 29 Mar 2013 23:37

Lilo wrote:Anmol ji,

Iam quite intrigued by the factions in Sangh parivar which detest Modi. Can you get your Sangh parivar guy to speak up more on the basis for this fear and loathing (when you get your next chance) ...?

I tried looking online but i came a cropper except the below cryptic quote.. may be he can tell if the below quote means anything..?

Shortly before I left Gujarat, one RSS leader described his own feelings in a bitter sigh: “Shivling mein bichhu baitha hai. Na usko haath se utaar sakte ho, na usko joota maar sakte ho.”


PS: The above is from another lengthy profile done this time by a known Modi hater ( VINOD K. JOSE ) in Caravan


I remember reading that... I will definitely ask him this. But last time he gave me two reasons :- "he does not work with others" "Sanjay Joshi".

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 29 Mar 2013 23:52

When I asked Bhatt why Shabnam Hashmi who he works very closely with had not gone and met Modi, if the offer was any one can come with the problems of Muslims; his answer was:

“I don’t think she would ever do that because she is convinced that all these are ploys. In fact when she got to know about Shahid Siddiqui bhai interviewing Modi she thought it was engineered by us. I said that you are imagining that it was engineered. Nothing like that happened. It just happened per chance that Shahid bhai asked for an interview and confronted him with questions.

"Why shouldn’t journalists interview Modi? When she has a list of grievances on behalf of Muslims and you have let it be known that he is willing to engage, why does she not go with the list and say, ‘I’m giving you a list of grievances of such and such groups of Muslims, show me that you mean well.’ Why does she not ever do that?'"

At this point, Asifa Khan of Bharuch, who left Congress Party to join BJP intervened to say: ‘Shabnam will never engage with Modi because she is politically associated’.
Mahesh Bhatt, defended Shabnam by saying,

“I think she has a clear cut ideology. She will never go to BJP. Like, I’m not at all close to the BJP ideology.
http://www.manushi.in/articles.php?arti ... pe=&pgno=7

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krisna » 30 Mar 2013 01:26

^^^^
fantastic article from Madhu Kishwar.
She takks to the muslims/christians who give their account of NaMo.
these are the people who have met NaMo and seen the ground situation/work of his administration.

The minorities here gave a clear account of the congis perfidy with their supporters to defame NaMo.

NaMo has been very responsive in his administration with no fear or favor to any community.
he literally works for people irrepsective of any religion.

No other politician is like him.

From the article,
1) the congi mla who was instrumental in killing ehsan jaffri was close to sonia gandhi.

2) Teesta setalvad has deep connection with many in central govt/positions of power.
3) Anti NaMo brigade have never met NaMo or his administration to check for facts.


Report submitted by the Special Investigative Team (SIT) appointed and closely monitored by the Supreme Court a to investigate charges against Modi and his government provides instances of police and army saving Muslims from riotous mobs. Some even braved hostile mobs but did not allow rescued Muslims to be harmed. ( A more detailed report will follow later).

Despite lapses and partisan conduct of the police in many places the police and army saved numerous lives of those who were held hostage by violent mobs. News reports of the time provided several instances of police officers risking their lives to save trapped Muslims. Here are few of many instances:

5000 people were saved from Noorani mosque by Ahmedabad Police.
240 persons were saved at Sardarpura in Mehsana district and shifted to safe places;
450 lives were saved in Pore and Nardipur villages and shifted to safer places.
200 persons were saved in Sanjoli village;
1500 persons were rescued from Fatehpura village in Vadodra district;
3000 people were saved and shifted from Kawant village.

Even from Ehsan Jafri’s Gulberg Society, 150 people, including his wife Zakia Jafri, were saved and taken to secure places. In her first FIR, Zakia Jafri admits to having been rescued by the Police. The charges she levelled against Modi and 63 others came 4 years later that too based on secondary sources like the statements of IPS officer Sreekumar who has been indicted by the SIT as a dubious person, a liar who fudged records and therefore an unreliable witness


Zakia Jafri has changed her testimony at least 3 times since the murder of her husband. The first 2 versions named congis as culprits but later version showed a anti NaMo slant at the behest of teesta/congis.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 30 Mar 2013 02:30

Let me provide you yet another example of the difference between Modi and Congress leaders.

When SEBI (Securities and Exchange Board of India) started troubling me a lot, Mahesh Bhatt suggested that I contact Salman Khurshid as he was not only the Minister for Minority Affairs but also a lawyer at the Supreme Court. I told Mahesh Bhatt that I did not want any personal favours. I just wanted to show him my papers. The Government has made the Ministry just so that if any member of the minority community has any problem, then the first stop should be the Minister for Minority Affairs. I told Mahesh Bhatt that only if after seeing my papers Khurshid feels that injustice had been done to me, should he intervene. I want no special favour. Mahesh Bhatt got an appointment for me and Khurshid told me to come to Delhi on such and such date.

It was sometime in 2009. I do not remember the exact date. So we went all the way to Delhi from Mumbai. I went to his office and waited for hours to meet him but and he did not even give me 15 seconds to state my case. All he said was that since the matter issue to SEBI and the Finance Ministry, he could not do anything in the matter. I told him that I did not want any favours but as the Minister he should at least listen to my problem. He refused to even listen to me. Madhuji, whether your work is done or not is a different issue – at least you deserve to be heard. On the other hand we have Modi sahib – you call at his office and you will receive a call within a couple of hours. It has not failed for 10 years. This is true not just for me but for anyone – they will ask for your name and number. They have a standard procedure for appointments.

After that encounter with Khurshid I was left wondering what is our standing in this country–when I a person of some stature and get treated like this imagine the fate of an ordinary Muslim! We know what we want – shut down the Ministry for Minority Affairs, just give us our constitutional rights as ordinary citizens. The problem is that you do not give me my right as an ordinary citizen and then you create the Ministry of Minority Affairs and give us a 15 point program which you have no intention to implement. Just give me my basic rights as is happening with Muslims in Gujarat.

http://www.manushi.in/articles.php?arti ... pe=&pgno=8

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 30 Mar 2013 02:46

The administration is today very responsive towards the educational initiatives of the Muslim community.

I can give you several examples. For instance, there is a school in Bapu Nagar, which is in the heart of a Muslim area. There was a Nutan School there, run by a Hindu trust. But when the number of Muslims increased, they sold it to a Muslim management. There are 1400 Muslims girls studying in the morning shift, and 1400 boys in the afternoon shift. One night, suddenly on a Sunday, at 10.30 p.m, I received a phone call from one of the gentlemen who runs the school. He said Zafar miyan, there is a big problem. Our school building is going to be demolished. The police are already here and they plan to demolish it at 10.30 in the morning. I said what can I do? He said, no one except Modi can save our school. I replied in jest: ‘There is only Modi for you now, As though Allah miyan has vanished. As if Modi is God! It is now 10.30 p.m. How can I call Modi at such a late hour?’ He insisted that I phone him right then.

This happened in 2007. You won’t believe it, at 10.45 in the night, I called Modi at his home. His secretary told me ‘sahib has gone out. I told him; please get Modi sahib to phone me before 7 a.m tomorrow morning. Next morning, at 6:59 a.m. Modi called me and said, ‘How come you wanted to talk to me early morning? I told him, Sir there is a Muslim school in Bapu Nagar — I don’t know whether its building is illegal or legal. All I know is that the municipality is about to demolish it. But you have to save it. That’s it. He said, “You people put me in a tight spot. It is an illegal structure and there is a High Court order that you have to demolish all illegal structures.” I said whatever it is, this matter relates to a school. Modi responded with a laugh saying: “if the school gets demolished. The museebat (headache) of dealing with those 2800 children will after all also come on my head! So I better do something” Sure enough, Modi stopped demolition that day. Later on, his officers advised us how to get the school legalised. But that could happen only he did not let the school be harmed that day.

http://www.manushi.in/articles.php?arti ... pe=&pgno=8

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 30 Mar 2013 02:56

I hope this is tactical only.

Let me give you another instance of the difference between the functioning of self styled secular politicians and that of Modi. About 6 months ago when Mahesh Bhatt’s film Jism 2 was to be released, it faced trouble in Maharashtra and Gujarat with party workers of Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) an alliance partner of the Congress Party threatening to attack any theatre that dared release that film. They tore up film posters and defaced film’s publicity hoardings saying they will not allow such a vulgar film. But the film had been cleared by the National Censor Board. But the NCP “moral police” was adamant. So Mahesh Bhatt called the senior most leader of NCP, Sharad Pawar himself and said the cadres of your “secular” party in Gujarat are threatening harm to cinema halls that screen my film. Do you want me to seek protection from Narendra Modi even though I am his political adversary?

I was present when that conversation took place. Sharad Pawar said, don’t worry nothing of the sort will happen. But two days later I got a call from Mahesh Bhatt that threats from the NCP workers have actually increased. I told Bhatt Sahib that I will talk to Modi on his behalf. Even though Bhatt remained a sworn enemy of Modi, I approached Modi. His response was clear and forthright. “No question of government allowing anyone to create disturbance on this issue. Rule of law will prevail. Since the Censor Board has cleared the film, nobody has the right to obstruct its screening through lawless acts.” He told me to communicate to Bhatt Sahib to sleep peacefully because the Government will not tolerate hoodlum action.

Within 15 minutes of this conversation, Bhatt sahib phoned me and said, the Police Commissioner of Baroda, the city in which NCP workers were most aggressive, called and assured me that the government is committed to taking strict action against any disruptive activity. Bhatt sahib said when I told the police commissioner that the theatre owners are petrified and therefore unwilling to screen the film; the Police Commissioner personally went and met the owners to assure them that they had no cause to worry. And indeed the film saw a peaceful release. Bhatt sahib told me: “Yaar, I have never seen any other politician or chief minister act with such alacrity and determination anywhere else in India.”! He openly praised Modi’s conduct in the Film Federation meeting saying on does not see any other state of India demonstrate such strong commitment to rule of law.

http://www.manushi.in/articles.php?arti ... pe=&pgno=8

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RamaY » 30 Mar 2013 03:14

^ Mahesh Butt and Narendra Modi

The Scorpion and the Frog is a fable about a scorpion asking a frog to carry him across a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion explains that this is simply its nature. The fable is used to illustrate the view that the behaviour of some creatures, or of some people, is irrepressible, no matter how they are treated and no matter what the consequences.


The only thing that separates a scorpion from its nature is death. That is why killing an asuric is the best strategy.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Reddy » 30 Mar 2013 05:06

Sushupti wrote:
Narendra Modi through the Eyes of Gujarati Muslims, Christians and…
Author(s) : Madhu Purnima Kishwar
http://www.manushi.in/articles.php?arti ... pe=&pgno=1


This website has been badly reviewed by WOT. However, i didn't find any malicious content on the site. Is this a new ploy to censor SM?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Kakkaji » 30 Mar 2013 05:40

rajeshkathiriya wrote:http://www.indianexpress.com/news/development-work-in-narendra-modis-gujarat-done-with-central-funds-kapil-sibal/1094889/

Development work in Narendra Modi's Gujarat done with central funds: Kapil Sibal


And are the central funds Sibal's father's property? :evil:

These UPA ministers at the center are acting like emperors handing out "bheekh" to the states.

IIRC Gujarat sends more taxes to the center than the funds it gets back from the center.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 30 Mar 2013 05:50

Sushupti wrote:I hope this is tactical only.

Let me give you another instance of the difference between the functioning of self styled secular politicians and that of Modi. ...

... “No question of government allowing anyone to create disturbance on this issue. Rule of law will prevail. Since the Censor Board has cleared the film, nobody has the right to obstruct its screening through lawless acts[/color].” He told me to communicate to Bhatt Sahib to sleep peacefully because the Government will not tolerate hoodlum action


Sir, Modi has said that his idea of secularism is "India First". Not now, but waaaay back in 2010 and in a talk in Chennai, TN. He must have said that earlier, but the first time it was recorded then.

Now what does India first mean? Does abiding by the law (taking those hoodlums out of the street for eg.) isn't India first? Does not taking the hoodlums out make the street safer? Of course every political party wants to use the hoodlums - for their own needs. But does that help India in the longer run?

Note that in the article, Madhu wants to talk to Jafar first and is then following the trail lead to Mahesh Bhatt. What M. Bhatt says privately is not ready to take a public position (that makes M. Butt communal and not secular).

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 30 Mar 2013 05:55

From the same article by Madhu Kishwar:

People who spread the canard that Modi is against minorities are reflecting their own political biases. My experience is totally different. He listens very carefully and acts very fast in case of genuine problems.

As a member of the Minorities Commission I dealt with several states. Orissa, Madhya Pradesh and Bihar governments have also been good. But no chief minister is as good, as strong and determined as Modi. Once he takes up an issue, he sees it through to its logical conclusion.

Now even Muslims realize that Modi is good for them. There are two kinds of Muslims in Gujarat – the rich and the poor. My experience tells me the poor Muslims are solidly with Modi because riot free Gujarat and a resurgent economy with new opportunities have benefited the poorer Muslims far more dramatically. It has provided them avenues of upward mobility. I love Modi, I want him to be Prime Minister. Even though some of the organizations are still anti-Modi, “Truth is Truth” how can I deny facts? I always go by factual accounts – no cock and bull stories. I only want good things. When we talk too much of minorities, who has given minorities full rights? It is the Hindu majority. Who wrote the Constitution? Hindus. We must appreciate Hindus for this/give them credit.


And the above is from none other than: V V Augustine from Kerala who interacted with Modi frequently during his tenure as a Member of the National Minorities Commission.

It proves my point., that Modi is secular, people biased against him are communal.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 30 Mar 2013 06:06

Muppalla wrote:There is no need for Lok Ayukta and the shit is only useful to keep a lot of folks on government payroll with taxpayer money.


Center has dangled funds of 100 Cr (is it per year) to whichever state appoints Lok Ayukta.

Knowing Modi this is what he will do:

1. Bring more transparency. He already brought Municipalties under lok ayuktas ambit.
2. Use the money to improve Judiciary and Law governance infrastructure.

The result, sickos will whine but Gujarat's law and governance will improve and hopefully more transparency. Who will this benefit? Aam Admi - including muslims, christians, hindus, jews, parsis, jains, buddhists, bohras, ismailis, khojas etc ...

Again, Modi is Secular. People biased against him are Communal.

[The word "Communal" is like a homonym to "Urinal"]

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 30 Mar 2013 06:21

anmol wrote:I remember reading that... I will definitely ask him this. But last time he gave me two reasons :- "he does not work with others" "Sanjay Joshi".


The above "bolded" parts means the following:

* No goonda-gardi
* No "ghaas-chara", particularly near Octroi points - Yearly loss to political parties - 1500 Cr Rs.
* No "ghaas-chara" at local offices (like obtaining birth certificates, passports etc). Loss to political parties - innumerous.

Case in point from Madhu's article:

The VHP had become very active in the area resulting in a lot of tension. When they planned to organize a big Shabri Kumbh mela in that area in 2006, the Christians became extremely nervous and feared that they would be attacked during that period since VHP is known for provoking riotous mobs. We went to Modi with our apprehensions. Christian organizations demanded that Shabari mela should be banned. They were afraid – because all Hindu houses were “flagged” by VHP – that made Christians very nervous. Modi did not ban the mela because that would have given VHP an excuse to make an issue that Hindus were being put down at the behest of Christians leading to more tension. He assured us that nobody would be allowed to indulge in violence or lawless behaviour. He called the Police Commissioner and gave clear instructions that no one should be allowed to indulge in lawless acts. Indeed, the mela passed off peacefully, this despite the fact that during 2002, non-Christian tribals had attacked Christian settlements leading to a great deal of mutual hostility and suspicion.


Another reason why the EJ lobby hates Modi., that is if he provides good governance and helps people aspirations to be achieved, EJ Lobby will have to search elsewhere for their sheep.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 30 Mar 2013 06:30

rajeshkathiriya wrote:http://www.indianexpress.com/news/development-work-in-narendra-modis-gujarat-done-with-central-funds-kapil-sibal/1094889/

Development work in Narendra Modi's Gujarat done with central funds: Kapil Sibal


Funny, the immediate common sense question is that:

1. Center provided funds and Modi used it to develop his state. That is Modi's job.
2. Center provided such funds to all other States. What did they do?
3. What is Center itself doing when they have so much money and no development?

When dogs bark mad, one thing is certain - they are mad., whether they think they are Kapil Sibal or DogVijay or not is a different matter (is based on the four-legged's ego).

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 30 Mar 2013 07:22

disha wrote:It proves my point., that Modi is secular, people biased against him are communal.

Modi is going to upset some of the anti-secular BRFites. Now suddenly will they all start singing Ode to Secularism onlee ?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RamaY » 30 Mar 2013 07:30

Disha ji is getting it wrong.

Modi is not secular. He is Bharatiya.

All the Modi bashers are secularists. That is the AIDS that is destroying India, by saying all religions are equal while fighting the Bharatiya immune system that is Hinduism.

Dishaji is thinking NM will get acceptance if he is labelled secular. That would be a self-goal. The main problem of India is secularism which is killing the natural immune system of India that is Hinduism. It will not stop hurting the host nation just because the medicine is called AIDS.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 30 Mar 2013 07:34

:rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RamaY » 30 Mar 2013 07:51

SwamyG garu,

I know you would come with this funny logic. I wanted to warn Dishaji but you beat me to it.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby nachiket » 30 Mar 2013 07:57

RamaY wrote:Modi is not secular. He is Bharatiya.

All the Modi bashers are secularists. That is the AIDS that is destroying India, by saying all religions are equal while fighting the Bharatiya immune system that is Hinduism.


So when has Modi said that all religions are not equal or that Hinduism is better or more important than the others?

Modi bashers go a step further and think that minorities are more important and deserve more than the majority community. That is unfortunately what passes for secularism in India. They are not real secularists. Please don't give credence to those charlatans by calling them secularists.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RamaY » 30 Mar 2013 08:06

Modi didn't say anything about religion or religious affiliation of Bharatiyas.

He simply said he would give same governance to all Bharatiyas. Religion comes into picture for only the people who out religion before Bharat.

Even when he talked about private train services, he knows that not all religionists want to go to kashi or Ajmer or Goa. People go where they want to go.

There is no need for secularism when all Bharatiyas are given equal governance. There is no need to even recognize or refer to someone's religion.

Secularism on the other hand appeases Abrahamic religions while undermining Bharatiya religions.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 30 Mar 2013 08:48

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_23629 » 30 Mar 2013 10:46

This website has been badly reviewed by WOT. However, i didn't find any malicious content on the site. Is this a new ploy to censor SM?


Pls don't use abbreviations - they are difficult to comprehend. What is WOT and who is SM?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby VikramS » 30 Mar 2013 10:55

Manushi has been active for more than three decades; true grass roots social activism.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 30 Mar 2013 11:24

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_22539 » 30 Mar 2013 12:57

Behind PM's happy mood and Congress gameplan

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 0330.htm#5


Where do they come up with stuff like this?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby nachiket » 30 Mar 2013 14:33

RamaY wrote:There is no need for secularism when all Bharatiyas are given equal governance. There is no need to even recognize or refer to someone's religion.

Um, that is the definition of secularism.

Secularism on the other hand appeases Abrahamic religions while undermining Bharatiya religions.

That is not secularism. Like I said before that is what passes in India as secularism. The answer is to challenge the appeasement being practiced in the guise of secularism, not to badmouth secularism.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RamaY » 30 Mar 2013 14:47

Nachiketji

Secularism is separation of church from state. There was no church in India or Hinduism. So there is no need to separate it thru secularism.

Secularism doesn't mean equality treatment of all religions by the state, which itself is an oxymoron because when state is separated from church, treating all religions equal is same as calling all religions as equal which is a falsehood. If all religions are equal then there is no need for many religions, especially the ones that claim to be the only paths.

Secularism itself has no validity and need in Bharatiya context.

India wanting to be secular is akin to a healthy patient taking Medication/chemotherapy for non existent AIDS/Cancer just because the neighbor is an AIDS patient and is under medication.

Our problem is first to think we need to be secular. The second issue is to not know that our state, intelligentsia and media are not secular. The third issue is to want a true Bharatiya leader to be secular. Do you see the problem?

A healthy patient who is forced to be under medication, where the true patient doesn't take medication and demanding the healthy leader to go thru chemotherapy just because there someone tells so...

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 30 Mar 2013 15:35

Off-topic,

There is Indian Secularism and there is Nehruvian Secularism. Indian Secularism is one component to the path of Dharmic Rashtra. Nehruvian Secularism is however only another term for Islamo-Christianism.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_23629 » 30 Mar 2013 15:49

Indian secularism as practiced today is a creation of only one deranged man -- Nehru -- who had a habit of lifting the prevailing intellectual fashions from Europe and blindly transplanting them to India. He was not a very intelligent person and lacked the capacity for analytical thought. To compensate this shortcoming, he came up with a strategy to make him look good -- become a fanatical follower of whatever fad was popular among European intellectuals of those times. This freed him from the burden of coming up with original thought or developing a new path based on his own insights and interpretation of events. Such original interpretation coming from him may have given his game away of being a pretender. That is a risk he never wanted to take. So he faked his way through the job. When he did come up with his original interpretation of the behavior of China, he became the laughing stock of the world after 1962.

Unfortunately, secularism is one European idea that he latched on to without comprehending that Hinduism has no church from whose clutches people and state have to be freed. In fact, it is the other way round -- unorganized polytheists believing in freedom of worship have to be saved from predatory monotheists with organized, well-funded churches. The idiot ended up shooting the victim.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 30 Mar 2013 16:13

There's a reason "psec" was coined - to mean "pseudo-secularism" as is practised by the C-system.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20292 » 30 Mar 2013 16:56

varunkumar wrote:Indian secularism as practiced today is a creation of only one deranged man -- Nehru -- who had a habit of lifting the prevailing intellectual fashions from Europe and blindly transplanting them to India. He was not a very intelligent person and lacked the capacity for analytical thought. To compensate this shortcoming, he came up with a strategy to make him look good -- become a fanatical follower of whatever fad was popular among European intellectuals of those times. This freed him from the burden of coming up with original thought or developing a new path based on his own insights and interpretation of events. Such original interpretation coming from him may have given his game away of being a pretender. That is a risk he never wanted to take. So he faked his way through the job. When he did come up with his original interpretation of the behavior of China, he became the laughing stock of the world after 1962.

Unfortunately, secularism is one European idea that he latched on to without comprehending that Hinduism has no church from whose clutches people and state have to be freed. In fact, it is the other way round -- unorganized polytheists believing in freedom of worship have to be saved from predatory monotheists with organized, well-funded churches. The idiot ended up shooting the victim.



I love the way nehru, who with his brand of secularism was actually able to keep a democratic experiment sane, and healthy , in the face of HUMONGOUS skepticism about the ability of Indians to live in democratice peace in the 1940s......................is.....50 years after his death......destroyed in so many words.

you and I owe something to the gentleman, friend. Credit where it is due.

BRF readers...careful about having BRF become a mono voiced cult. Then it becomes no different from all sort of chamchagiri type orgs.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20292 » 30 Mar 2013 17:00

Sushupti wrote:Image


Folks...NaMo is not popular within the BJP itself.

If the NDA is able to cobble a coalition together, we would most probably see an L K Advani as PM, and then NaMo as home minister , consistenly stepping over the toes of other ministeries and in general acting as a dictator.

LK Advani will hold together the ship. NaMo will use it to do good work on.

LKA is very much in the game brothers. Very much in the game. He is not going anywhere.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_22539 » 30 Mar 2013 17:24

^Sure, whatever you say pal, but frankly I rather decide who is chamcha and who is worthy for myself. You are free to express whatever catches your fancy.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Arjun » 30 Mar 2013 17:34

mahadevbhu wrote:Folks...NaMo is not popular within the BJP itself.

Mahadevbhu, what is the metric you are using for this rather radical statement ? Is it support for Namo among BJP workers, or support among BJP voters, support from state BJP leaders, support from BJP leaders in Delhi ? Can you be more specific ?

It's fairly obvious that Modi is the most popular by far on the first three parameters. As far as support from BJP central leadership goes - their support or otherwise is completely irrelevent. The composition of the post poll government would be completely determined by electoral results and relative bargaining power between NDA constituents. If BJP were in a position to have the total say on PMship, without any concern on support from alliance partners - I am quite certain Modi would be chosen as PM. Why do you think otherwise ?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 30 Mar 2013 17:59

Seriously NaMo could do without any help from Newt types of lowly individual. Dude could not even get a respectful showing in his primaries, bada aaya Modi ki taareef karne. Opportunistic buffoon. He is Laloo in soot boot.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby devesh » 30 Mar 2013 18:00

^^^
it's not "Newt" that is important. you are missing the forest for the trees.


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