Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 26 Apr 2013 18:28

Murugan wrote:very good speech by Swami Parmanand-ji

treat your body as Bharat Desh

It was mind blowing, and it should be captured in the non-western idea dhaaga. Treat bharat as your deh (body) and vishwa as your parivar. He contrasted how others treat vishwa as bazaar. Brilliant.

However, it is good from a spiritual/philosophical level - true liberation. That is the ideal state. In practice, when others do not see it that way, it is tough to run the country. Hence, we have the concept of dharma for different people that have further nuances based on time and situation.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Apr 2013 18:38

Sushupti wrote:^^^^ but this was organized by Sadhu like Ramdev who comes from BC category. Expect Swaroopananda lobby to hit back on the behalf of dynasty.

have patience. there is no BC FC stuff. Once you are a sant/sadhu you are out of all that. This is an endorsement from a huge number of faithful folks who are following centuries old traditions and that to from one of the most auspicious piece of land. After than any maharathi (swamy ho ya brahman ho) makes nutty statement, it will not matter and they will only lose their respect. The finalization is complete even if someone still thinks differently.

It is impossible to oppose Modi and to be still on Sangh parivaar if he/she wishes to be considered as serious human being.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Apr 2013 18:41

Time and situation
==
देशकालो संकीर्तया

desh kaalo samkirtaya

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Apr 2013 18:42

Murugan wrote:Time and situation
==
देशकालो संकीर्तया

desh kaalo samkirtaya

I loved the speech and the language. meetha!!!

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Apr 2013 18:42

once one becomes sanyasi he loses varna/jaati or caste status.

the best part is that most of the reformers in Bharat are non-brahmins

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 26 Apr 2013 18:43

Murugan wrote:Deep प्रज्वलन in secularists camp

Good one!

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Apr 2013 18:43

Muppalla wrote:
Murugan wrote:Time and situation
==
देशकालो संकीर्तया

desh kaalo samkirtaya
I loved the speech and the language. meetha!!!

I was flabbergasted when I heard Narendrabhai quoting subhasits and shloks with sant like fluency. I said Namo Namah!

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Apr 2013 18:46

We must commend and thank Ramdev for bringing saints together on one stage for rashtra chintan, that too frequently and all resources at disposal.

I believe this is happening after long gap, perhaps 1000+ years.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 26 Apr 2013 18:49

Sushupti ji I guess you know better -
जात ना पूछोँ साधु से पूछ लीजौ ज्ञान,
मोल करोँ तलवार का पड़ी रहन दो म्यान।
Most Sadhu (probably all) do their own tarpan to become Sadhu, not only leave their caste, family, but do their own funeral. They are born again (hence dwij, - twice born). In this birth, the only question that matter asking is -
जात ना पूछोँ साधु से पूछ लीजौ ज्ञान,
मोल करोँ तलवार का पड़ी रहन दो म्यान।
rgds,
fanne

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 26 Apr 2013 18:54

I am yet to watch Mo speak. Watched hurriedly some of the monks talk. I agree with Murugan about the too much praise,but for that the wisdom and tejas they displayed was moving. It is what made India tick for centuries. The Karnataka sadhu brought in apt quotes from scientists. I thought it was a good mix. His devotion and respect towards Ramdev was clearly evident, and so was Ramdev's towards the younger sadhu.

We now need one each in Patna, Pune, Patiala and Pondicherry.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 26 Apr 2013 19:02

Arre bhai bas bhi karo.

Sorry Sushupti ji, looks like you are getting some undesired attention because I did not clarify

Sushupti ji was refering to a politicians colouring the fight as UC vs. BC with BR et al on one side (which he probably fears would loose) and Swami Swaroopanand on the other side (the Kongi side).

http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sourc ... panand.htm

His name has been linked with the politics of the Congress Party and is perceived to have been an ally of former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi and a friend to Sonia Gandhi.

I in turn alluded to the situation as it was during Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaja's time where the dumbo side (varna by birth) lost to the brighter side of Shivaji + Kashi Brahmins (varna by karma and etc.).

Basically rest assured Sushupti ji knows. He is merely voicing his concerns for what is to come. Which is not a baseless apprehension.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Apr 2013 19:08

ravi_g wrote:Basically rest assured Sushupti ji knows. He is merely voicing his concerns for what is to come. Which is not a baseless apprehension.

What you and sushpti ji are saying is true but we don't need to worry anymore after this meet. All that will be just noise with no use. This is such a huge gathering everything else will be just dust.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 26 Apr 2013 19:11

Murugan wrote: the best part is that most of the reformers in Bharat are non-brahmins

Most of the population in Bharat is non-Brahmin

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 26 Apr 2013 19:14

Sushupti ji sorry for the unsolicited advice, I do bother about the same thing, but in my calculation, that fear is unfounded. And what's more today we celebrate, let us bother tomorrow. So enjoy the speeches. We anyway do not do things, we are mere instrument in His will. Just, Khudi ko kar itna bulund, that God chooses you for any sacred task.
Thanks,
fanne

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 26 Apr 2013 19:16

Muppalla wrote:
What you and sushpti ji are saying is true but we don't need to worry anymore after this meet. All that will be just noise with no use. This is such a huge gathering everything else will be just dust.

Oh dead right on that count.

This in effect is the missing part of action that ideally should have happened at Kumbh. At that time Togadia played the spoil sport and SP had their own guys on top which unfortunately ~~lead to~~ ended in the tragedy of Stampede. I guess it was good only that it did not happen at that time (even though I had complained at that time. I had prayed for Indra to release the holy waters from the grip of vritrasura). The fact that this is happening today shows who won the contest for the holy waters.

If NaMo helps BJP win, then his biography will merit a chapter on this count and this day will be the finale of that chapter.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 26 Apr 2013 19:22

Murugan wrote:We must commend and thank Ramdev for bringing saints together on one stage for rashtra chintan, that too frequently and all resources at disposal.

I believe this is happening after long gap, perhaps 1000+ years.

Not to forget that Baba Ramdev himself could have got the idea after his meeting with Shri Rajiv Malhotra during the latter's seminar with various spiritual orgs across the nation (was held in Ahmedabad sometime back).

So the degree of separation is only 2 (or possibly none).

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Apr 2013 19:27

Klaus wrote:
Murugan wrote:We must commend and thank Ramdev for bringing saints together on one stage for rashtra chintan, that too frequently and all resources at disposal.

I believe this is happening after long gap, perhaps 1000+ years.
Not to forget that Baba Ramdev himself could have got the idea after his meeting with Shri Rajiv Malhotra during the latter's seminar with various spiritual orgs across the nation (was held in Ahmedabad sometime back).

So the degree of separation is only 2 (or possibly none).

There are several others who worked on this meet to happen. This is being in works for more than six months.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 26 Apr 2013 19:34

Klaus wrote:Not to forget that Baba Ramdev himself could have got the idea after his meeting with Shri Rajiv Malhotra during the latter's seminar with various spiritual orgs across the nation (was held in Ahmedabad sometime back).

Rajiv Malhotra certainly has played a part. What he did in that Sabha was to tell the Sant Samaj about the various movements going on which were profiting from their political seclusion, and how they need to integrate their teachings into the whole Bharatiya Sabhyata narrative and be outspoken about it. I believe the Sant Samaj were perhaps less aware of these political-religious movements underway to undermine Bharatiya Sabhyata.

One can perhaps again expect the Sant Samaj now to take a more central role in the direction of this country.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 26 Apr 2013 19:36

Ego always spoil things. A fame at BR of knowing something will at best be fleeting but the damage that it can do is immense. There is a saying -
Secret to 1 is secret to God, secret to two is secret to all.
rgds,
fanne

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 26 Apr 2013 20:01

Congie press is making it sound as if Modi's speech was about the riots.

In Haridwar, Narendra Modi talks about 2002 - http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/in-ha ... 002-359492

In Haridwar, Narendra Modi defends riots’ record - http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 50853.aspx

Narendra Modi shares dais with Ramdev, says no riots in Gujarat in last 12 years - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 743034.cms

The headlines say nothing about Modi being endorsed by Sant Samaj. Really shows how servile the press is. Headlines Today is the exception on this occasion, by the way.

Baba Ramdev says Sant Samaj backs Narendra Modi as PM candidate - http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/nare ... 67877.html

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 26 Apr 2013 20:27

fanne wrote:I fear for his well being, may Lord Krishna protect him.
rgds
fanne

Did some little work to try to avoid this eventuality.

Code: Select all

http://pakteahouse.net/2013/04/24/chairman-press-council-of-india-justice-markandey-katjus-hindutvist-akhand-bharat-theory-right-out-of-the-rss-manual/comment-page-2/#comment-132134

I wrote:
I wrote:in fact Modi has been so helpful to the Muslims of Gujarat, in their progress, that more than 50% of the zakat collected in India and distributed all over India, comes from Gujarat
Tajender wrote:sattar choohe kha ke billi haj ko chalee.blood thirsty brhmns of nagpur used him to promote brhmnsm.he is teeley.he knows his auqat in hindu samaj.but it is too late,he made himself terrorist to serve them.zoinist and brhmnst kisi ke nahee hote hai.jail is last place for him.
Tajender,
I really don’t care if Modi goes to jail. For my like he is a closet-Islamist!

In Gujarat he is a darling of the Muslims. Read this from India Today

Muslim-dominated Gujarat town Salaya has shifted electoral loyalties from the Congress to BJP. In the local municipal elections last month, all 24 of BJP’s Muslim candidates won while their opponents, almost all Congress candidates, lost their deposits-a telling development in a town that had been an unimpeachable Congress stronghold since Independence.
Muslims comprise 90 per cent of the nearly 45,000 population of the farthest town on India’s west coast, near Jamnagar. But Salaya is not alone in displaying the Muslim electorate’s tilt towards BJP. Statewide trends show that Muslim voters in the recently held polls to 76 municipalities were distinctly pro-BJP.

Of the 145 candidates fielded by the party, 81 won. In Kodinar municipality, all eight Muslim BJP candidates won. In municipal by-elections in nearby Junagadh, both the Muslim candidates of BJP got re-elected unopposed as the Congress did not field candidates. The municipal results followed BJP’s impressive show in Muslim-dominated constituencies in the Assembly polls in December 2012. In 22 of 32 such seats, 30 to 67 per cent Muslims voted for BJP, even though the party did not field a single Muslim candidate for the 182-member Assembly.
The Muslims in Gujarat are for Modi for a reason, and that is because they know that he is a closet Islamist, slowly working within the BJP to empower them.

Why otherwise he is asking for death sentence to all those Hindus who took upon themselves to defend themselves, like his former BJP minister Maya Kodnani? If Modi had not intervened in Gujarat in 2002, true Hindus would have ensured that Gujarat would have been today a Muslim free state.

Congress has targeted him with all this rubbish about being anti-Muslim because they don’t want to lose the Muslim vote-banks all over India to Modi, as they have already lost them to him in Gujarat.

Modi will cause the whole unraveling of Hindutva. So screw Modi!

@PakTeaHouse, there are a few hard Indian Islamists like Tajender who post and seem to be quite active in their networks in India as well. There are of course also the ISI dirt-bags who read such forums.

Of course, it is okay to put out this message in a Paki blog, where some Ganga-Jamuna Islamists too would read, but I wouldn't want to put out a similar message in Indian forums.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Apr 2013 20:37

Ramdev is trying to bring saints together before Rajiv-ji's efforts, but, it is a matter of great pride that Rajiv-ji might have influenced the whole movement.

Ramdev was heckled, insulted and neglected for years. The so called sant samaj of ninties could not digest a fact that a person with such look and background could be a master in samskrit. He spent years with acharya balakrishna-ji for getting little respect amongt the so called saints' place, i.e., haridwar. Ramdev has told this in many of his gatherings. One day somebody offered him Rs. 20,000(twenty thousand only) and they accepted and journey started, growing in leaps and bound.

Gradually the hater sants started giving bhav to ramdev bala duo, ramdeve accepted and walked alongwith the same people who have insulted him. ramdev got his own channel astha and samskar and the saints started flocking to get a slot in his channels. Though many saints have supported him from start, ramdev's journey is a big story full of melodrama. even Balakrishna maharaj used to cry everyday, this i have heard from him. ramdev started integrating aryasamajis (he himself was one) together and later bringing others in and around haridwar for some kind of common cause. Ramdev's is a story of struggle, insults, betrayals (one such betrayal was by that stupid kapil sibal ka chamcha so called aryasamaji).

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Apr 2013 21:03

John Abraham meets Mod

On the evening of Friday 26th April 2013 Shri Narendra Modi met actor Mr. John Abraham in Gandhinagar. Mr. Abraham praised the development in Gujarat particularly in the fields of eco-tourism, sports development and heritage among other things.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 26 Apr 2013 21:06

Muppalla wrote:John Abraham meets Mod

On the evening of Friday 26th April 2013 Shri Narendra Modi met actor Mr. John Abraham in Gandhinagar. Mr. Abraham praised the development in Gujarat particularly in the fields of eco-tourism, sports development and heritage among other things.

Does Modi ever take a break?

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Apr 2013 21:11

He has spoken in one of the videos while comparing himself with MounMoun Singh-ji, he said, mounmoun-ji says he has not taken leave for last 3 years, modi says he has not taken leave for 15 minutes since he became CM

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 26 Apr 2013 21:51

I liked the way it was conducted. One of the bane for our country was that the Sant Samaj was moving slower then the rest of the crowd. Vatsayayan had the depth to put something as notorious a subject as sex in a proper perspective. While the current sant samaj was falling behind in an understanding of commerce, politics, military affairs. Sant like BR have broken the mould for good.

What is great is that NaMo has endorsed this in his speech today. Told the gathering that earlier secular people used to complain that Sant sadhus do not do anything and are indolents, now that they have begun something that they understand now they are told that they cannot do it. It was brilliant how he put it all in uninhibited and mocking manner. These are basically the weapons that one can use to take on MSM and Kongis.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Apr 2013 22:00

ravi_g wrote:What is great is that NaMo has endorsed this in his speech today. Told the gathering that earlier secular people used to complain that Sant sadhus do not do anything and are indolents, now that they have begun something that they understand now they are told that they cannot do it. It was brilliant how he put it all in uninhibited and mocking manner. These are basically the weapons that one can use to take on MSM and Kongis.

+1. He did it brilliantly.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 26 Apr 2013 22:21

Thanks ravi_g ji for defending me. This Modi vibe is still a litlle wave in the bath tub comapred to RJB tide and this tide disapeared without doing any real damage to post 47 British Raj under dynasty. What's the reason?. It's congi "Avatars" on our side doing all the damage.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 26 Apr 2013 22:27

ravi_g wrote:I liked the way it was conducted. One of the bane for our country was that the Sant Samaj was moving slower then the rest of the crowd. Vatsayayan had the depth to put something as notorious a subject as sex in a proper perspective. While the current sant samaj was falling behind in an understanding of commerce, politics, military affairs. Sant like BR have broken the mould for good.

What is great is that NaMo has endorsed this in his speech today. Told the gathering that earlier secular people used to complain that Sant sadhus do not do anything and are indolents, now that they have begun something that they understand now they are told that they cannot do it. It was brilliant how he put it all in uninhibited and mocking manner. These are basically the weapons that one can use to take on MSM and Kongis.

The part i liked most was where he said something like:" Is desh mein ek chota sa varg (Dilli-billi and their paraphernalia) hai jo desh kee dhara ko ulta chalane ka prayas karta hai aur abhi tak hum unki is harkat ko undekha karte aaye hain". I infer that he has some plan for this group.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 26 Apr 2013 22:31

He referred to UPA as "Delhi Sultanate"! It is good that he feels that way! He knows that they are Islamo-Christianists!

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 26 Apr 2013 22:33

RajeshA wrote:He referred to UPA as "Delhi Sultanate"!

He has been doing that at least since last elections, and I think even the prior one.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Apr 2013 23:12

Sushupti wrote:Thanks ravi_g ji for defending me. This Modi vibe is still a litlle wave in the bath tub comapred to RJB tide and this tide disapeared without doing any real damage to post 47 British Raj under dynasty. What's the reason?. It's congi "Avatars" on our side doing all the damage.

RJB tide gave BJP first burst but the congress party got 190 seats even when the opposition ensured straight fight across the country. It did not do even what JP movement did. I don't want to give too much to RJB. This time the congress party is really weak (even though it got 207 in 2009) and it depends upon how you build a pre-poll and a post-poll coalitions. It is important to see even BJP's opponents win and make sure that INC loses to create a playground.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 26 Apr 2013 23:36

Must say this folks...this is one of the most brilliant speeches I have heard in recent times. This is the most grandios visionary statement he made thru this speech, firmly rooting in the identity and the legacy we carry.

IMO there cannot be more secular speech than this.

I am also tempted to say that there may be very few in the political world today who could give such a speech impromtu without the aid of teleprompters.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 26 Apr 2013 23:58

Sushupti ji, a tide (of people) becomes a wave only if doubters quit (and join either side). I am not as knowledgeable as you are, perhaps you can find the exact quote and help me, but Shri Krishna says in Gita - The doubters neither gets anything in this world or the other, so Parth, stand up and take a stance. You may be wrong, you may loose, but this is Dharma. There is no point double guessing the future, as no one can. You can only take a stance on the knowledge you have today. Fear, rumors, doubts have no place. In this context, either you are with Modi (and in my humble opinion so is Dharma, Nayaya, Deshprem and greater good of Bharat) or you are against. I will respect you if you are against him, but don't be in the middle. It does no one good. All that logic of trying to figure the truth,or the most optimum way is nothing but doubts and lack of confidence. If you are a Modi supporter, do him and yourself a favor, get on with the crowd. Being contararian here is is not a sign of being courageous but being to full of ego.
My 2 cents sir.
Thanks,
fanne

Vipin_Upadhyay · Post by **Vipin_Upadhyay** » 27 Apr 2013 00:16

NaMo in his every speech mentions Swami Vivekananda without fail, I have been watching all his speeches, whether they are in Gujarati or in Hindi, Vivekananda finds a prominent place in his speeches.
Surely, he is deeply influenced by Vivekananda's personality. We need to read more on Swami Vivekananda & explore all ideologies associated with VKN.
When NaMo is influenced by his personality, he must be something special!!

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 27 Apr 2013 00:19

fanne ji..very well put. I have hardly posted on this subject before but it is time one has completed evaluating options and coming to conclusion and going with it.

In my view his strong credentials on having and talking about the vision, grasp of India in its full historical perspective, demostrated growth story and understanding of its trickledown effects, his humility/reflection on certain matters and his willingness to learn and mature - all make me think he needs a chance.

I mean..when we have tried the likes of sonia/mms, rajiv, gujral, chandrasekhar, mulayams, laloos, paswans, and our fumbling could potentially bring a complete gadha who can't put together a couple of sentences....then it is not time to sit on the fence.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 27 Apr 2013 00:24

Vipin_Upadhyay wrote:NaMo in his every speech mentions Swami Vivekananda without fail, I have been watching all his speeches, whether they are in Gujarati or in Hindi, Vivekananda finds a prominent place in his speeches.
Surely, he is deeply influenced by Vivekananda's personality. We need to read more on Swami Vivekananda & explore all ideologies associated with VKN.
When NaMo is influenced by his personality, he must be something special!!

Based on only few days of observing his style of speech, he makes liberal use of local, regional, national, international icons that he believes help connect with the audience. He is a great orator for sure.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Apr 2013 00:25

Vipin_Upadhyay wrote:.
Surely, he is deeply influenced by Vivekananda's personality. We need to read more on Swami Vivekananda & explore all ideologies associated with VKN.
When NaMo is influenced by his personality, he must be something special!!

If you are ready as it will change you for ever.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 27 Apr 2013 00:50

NaMo also mentioned this
* In his experience as CM none of Sadhus came to him for favors. This maryada also gives more weight to shabd of Sadhus.
* Only in India and not outside we have mandate of looking after Sarvajana
* If Englishmen could not do much what is the current sultanate.. or similar.
* Desh is made by sant samaaj, teachers not sarkar
* Is it improper to present views - w.r.t. lathicharge on BR and badmouthing
* Keral sants have also made Keral educated
Good tone, shows frustration of people.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 27 Apr 2013 01:01

fanne wrote:Sushupti ji, a tide (of people) becomes a wave only if doubters quit (and join either side). I am not as knowledgeable as you are, perhaps you can find the exact quote and help me, but Shri Krishna says in Gita - The doubters neither gets anything in this world or the other, so Parth, stand up and take a stance. You may be wrong, you may loose, but this is Dharma. There is no point double guessing the future, as no one can. You can only take a stance on the knowledge you have today. Fear, rumors, doubts have no place. In this context, either you are with Modi (and in my humble opinion so is Dharma, Nayaya, Deshprem and greater good of Bharat) or you are against. I will respect you if you are against him, but don't be in the middle. It does no one good. All that logic of trying to figure the truth,or the most optimum way is nothing but doubts and lack of confidence. If you are a Modi supporter, do him and yourself a favor, get on with the crowd. Being contararian here is is not a sign of being courageous but being to full of ego.
My 2 cents sir.
Thanks,
fanne

All i am saying is that let us watch our blind spots, the place of Congi "Avatars" inside BJP, this time and crush them to the dust. Of course, i am a Modi supporter and if he remains alive much is going to change. That Gita quote is "Sanshayatma Vinshyati", although said in a totally different context.