Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2013 15:39

We are on, a friendly bet it is.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 Jun 2013 15:58

Sanku wrote:The sangh is not remotely like that, not only is the power always and necessarily distributed, the ONE person, if any, is the Sarsanghchalak. So if you are looking for one person to be all strong, perhaps you would actually like Modi to go back and try and become the Sarsanghchalak.

Modi if he wants to be part of the power equation in BJP at center, will necessarily have a role in the central cabinet. Even then his power will greatly depend on his actual role.

As far as Modi is concerned, power dynamics have shifted into a presidential form. Modi has his power base directly among the people as well as among the Karyakartas of BJP or Swayamsevaks of RSS.

Not even the Sarsanghachalak would want to confront Modi, because he too has to deal with his support base. Nor does he need to. Modi is neither interfering in RSS affairs nor is he trying to curtail their power nor is he undermining them. So I don't see much of a conflict unless of course if it is on the lines of RSS-HMS differences. In fact I think with BJP/Modi in power, RSS membership may increase 2-3 fold.

I also don't think there will be "RSS men" in the next government to that an extent, so if Modi tries to exert control over the cabinet, it is not going to bother RSS.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Jun 2013 16:17

Meanwhile, the states are not waiting sitting on their hands...

from twitter...

>> ‏@tajinderbagga 6m K'taka BJP passes resolution to make Modi party's PM candidate-IBN7

>> ‏@IndiaToday 4h #NaMo Narendra Modi to address #BJP workers' convention on the last day of national executive in #Goa on June 9 "on public demand"

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2013 16:21

RajeshA wrote:
As far as Modi is concerned, power dynamics have shifted into a presidential form.

Hardly.

Modi is a popular BJP leader, maybe the most popular, that is about all. Let us not make him into what is not real, and set unrealistic expectation or unrealistic hopes and goals.

It will take structural changes for Modi's popularity to reflect into a presidential form, and many years of different type of thinking in Indian polity.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2013 16:25

Hari Seldon wrote:Meanwhile, the states are not waiting sitting on their hands...

Interesting choreographed by RNS, or spontaneous ?

We shall see.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 04 Jun 2013 16:37

Sanku wrote:
Sagar G wrote: Modi is equally famous in M.P. as SSC and since SSC himself has given the pecking order for PMship there remains nothing more to be said other than beating around the bush and letting the actual culprits pass off easily.
BJP is slowly and tentatively moving towards Modi as PM candidate, there are still many hurdles to cross, and it is not clear whether they can actually put him forward (congress is likely to target him harder) -- in any case if not for 2014 then for 2015/16/17 or even next elections after full term Modi would still be invaluable.

2014 or bust is not a game anyone with long term stakes can play. So Modi will be handled carefully.

However as Modi builds up, Congress and MSM will tend to pull him down harder hence the games that we see now.

Excellent analysis. My thoughts too.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Jun 2013 16:48

Modi backers want unique post for him in BJP ahead of 2014 polls

This farticle is total badmashi by india today. says things that don't exist. sample this piece of steaming BS:

Sources reasoned Modi's hurry to create a unique position for himself saying he believes that forcing an early decision would help him win the battle for Hindi heartland by the end of this year.

However, Modi's biggest fear is that a third win for Madhya Pradesh Chief Minister Shivraj Singh Chauhan could help him emerge as a strong alternative to him.

The Gujarat heavyweight is concerned about the manner in which Advani has been projecting Chauhan, scripting a direct comparison and any delay in the party's decision would give his opponents time to build consensus around other names.

utter cr@p. Attempt to paint NM as insecure, scheming etc - IOW, like just any politician, which he is not and hence his mass-appeal.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 04 Jun 2013 17:03

RajeshA wrote:Not even the Sarsanghachalak would want to confront Modi, because he too has to deal with his support base. Nor does he need to. Modi is neither interfering in RSS affairs nor is he trying to curtail their power nor is he undermining them. So I don't see much of a conflict unless of course if it is on the lines of RSS-HMS differences. In fact I think with BJP/Modi in power, RSS membership may increase 2-3 fold.

true..

As far as I know, no such problems exist between RSS (top and bottom, whichever cadre you say) and NaMo. I will only say that NaMo has a very strong vipareeta rajayoga. Everyone is so far performing their roles as per the script.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Jun 2013 17:16

And now we are treated to the sorry spectacle of sagareeka ghose deliberating on internal sangh matters, no doubt aided by fictional "inside sources" only.

http://m.firstpost.com/politics/will-rs ... tml?page=1

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 04 Jun 2013 17:42

Atri wrote: true..

As far as I know, no such problems exist between RSS (top and bottom, whichever cadre you say) and NaMo. I will only say that NaMo has a very strong vipareeta rajayoga. Everyone is so far performing their roles as per the script.

Your knowledge is simply amazing.

From wiki

Kalidasa in his Uttara Kalamrita vide Sloka IV.22 states that the lord of the 8th in 6th or in the 12th , the lord of the 6th in the 8th or in the 12th and the lord of the 12th in the 6th or in the 8th house from the Lagna (Ascendant) give rise to extraordinary Raja Yogas provided these lords are mutually related by conjunction or by mutual aspect or by mutual exchange of signs, and at the same time do not relate with any other planet i.e. house-lord; and in case all three are involved then a very powerful Raja yoga will arise.

This is the Viparita Raja yoga that confers learning, longevity, fame and prosperity, illustrious friends, success in all ventures and victory over foes. Enhanced status and financial stability in the dasha of the planet causing this yoga and which result is also witnessed in the dasha of the planet associating with it. Thus, in a nativity the lord of the 3rd in the 8th house in conjunction with lord of the 6th or the 8th but devoid of influence, association or aspect of any natural benefic planet gave yoga results.

Viparita Raja yoga arose because of weak position of the lords of these bad houses.

Morarji Desai, the former Prime Minister of India, was born with Viparita Raja yoga and he had duly availed the benefits of this yoga; he had Venus occupying the 8th house as the lord of the 12th house from the Lagna.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 04 Jun 2013 17:49

I have a theory maybe a very far fetched one. This was in my mind for a,long time but gained in strength after reading this article from Asian age http://www.asianage.com/india/rajnath-c ... k-modi-768. Significant is the last para

It was pointed out that as the clamour for the Gujarat CM to lead the party in the 2014 general election began to gather momentum, Mr Advani “began his sniper attacks”.

Is this a deliberate attempt by BJP, to ensure max support ot Namo. Maybe Advani volunteered to be the bad old man , so that more people will clamour for Namo. I cannot articulate it right but I somehow feel there is a game going on.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 04 Jun 2013 18:19

Do you guys remember some RSS chap called Sanjay Joshi who became a big Hero and cause celebre in PAIDMEDIA circles during Gujarat elections.

The PAIDMEDIA had articles on him every day in the front pages, top news sections online, and even his posters appeared in Gujarat.

As soon as the elections are over and Modi, the PAIDMEDIA dumped him and never ever to raise the issue.

Regardless of how many times it happens, the sad thing is even top leaders such as Joshi, Advani and others are unable to see through the game of PAIDMEDIA. They have to understand that they are USE and THROW condoms for Mainos, PAIDMEDIA and foreign mafia.

Sagarika, Sardeep Desai, Burkha Dutt or any other moron of PAIDMEDIA don't gave a damn for Advani or Chouhan or Gadkari after BJP is soundly defeated. They will spit on them, laugh at them and puke on them for next five years while enjoying the loot and the crumbs from the Maino clan.

Hope better sense prevails. Looks like Gandkari and Chauhan have put a STOP to nonsense put forward by Advani who wants to destroy BJP chances at any cost unless he is declared as PM candidate.

I can tell you one thing: If Advani is declared as NDA candidate, BJP will get 100-120 seats. That's it.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 04 Jun 2013 18:22

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 04 Jun 2013 18:35

RajeshA wrote:
Sanku wrote:The sangh is not remotely like that, not only is the power always and necessarily distributed, the ONE person, if any, is the Sarsanghchalak. So if you are looking for one person to be all strong, perhaps you would actually like Modi to go back and try and become the Sarsanghchalak.

Modi if he wants to be part of the power equation in BJP at center, will necessarily have a role in the central cabinet. Even then his power will greatly depend on his actual role.
As far as Modi is concerned, power dynamics have shifted into a presidential form. Modi has his power base directly among the people as well as among the Karyakartas of BJP or Swayamsevaks of RSS.

Not even the Sarsanghachalak would want to confront Modi, because he too has to deal with his support base. Nor does he need to. Modi is neither interfering in RSS affairs nor is he trying to curtail their power nor is he undermining them. So I don't see much of a conflict unless of course if it is on the lines of RSS-HMS differences. In fact I think with BJP/Modi in power, RSS membership may increase 2-3 fold.

I also don't think there will be "RSS men" in the next government to that an extent, so if Modi tries to exert control over the cabinet, it is not going to bother RSS.

RajeshA Ji,

Modi ist nicht Fuhrer und Indien ist nicht Deutschland, obwohl ich lieben würde, in Führers Form sehen
Heil Modi....

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 Jun 2013 19:20

Samudragupta ji,

I don't think in the least of Modi as Führer. Modi has great social skills as a democrat, who knows how to navigate the currents of Indian politics. What he does is he works on what he is given to do, e.g. CM of Gujarat, and the appreciation he receives for his work, the political capital he gains, he uses to catapult him forwards, often letting others do so. About his peers he always speaks positively.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 04 Jun 2013 19:30

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Jun 2013 19:34

Anant Kr, MMJ, SS and LKA may not win LS seats - such is the flood of respect and admiration they command among the ordinary karyakartas and sangh cadre with their latest antics.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 Jun 2013 19:41

Hari Seldon wrote:Anant Kr, MMJ, SS and LKA may not win LS seats - such is the flood of respect and admiration they command among the ordinary karyakartas and sangh cadre with their latest antics.

That would be 4 LS seats less, and I don't think Modi can afford that.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 04 Jun 2013 19:48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkOCltqY ... r_embedded

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 Jun 2013 20:11

Hari Seldon wrote:Anant Kr, MMJ, SS and LKA may not win LS seats - such is the flood of respect and admiration they command among the ordinary karyakartas and sangh cadre with their latest antics.

100% correct. LKA maybe the only person who may scrape through. I had posted a very detailed survey on varanasi seat a few days ago, where people had described MMJ as one of the worst MP's of varanasi ever. He has not done one project for the city and in fact the funds for the constituency were being returned because they were not used. Sushma Swaraj must be forced to contest from delhi/haryana and prove her mettle. No safe seats must be provided to any of the above 4. That is a direct insult to the local leaders who have worked hard for their constituency. But if Sushma has indeed gone to vidisha and served the people there well and taken up good projects and seen them to completion in the last 4 years, she surely deserves to fight from there again. Same is the case with LKA. Every leader must be forced to explain what he/she has done for that local constituency in their term. Tomorrow even if modi becomes a PM and is an MP from lucknow, apart from responsibilities as a PM, he has duties in his own constituency that he has to fulfill.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 04 Jun 2013 20:13

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 Jun 2013 20:24

Hari Seldon wrote:And now we are treated to the sorry spectacle of sagareeka ghose deliberating on internal sangh matters, no doubt aided by fictional "inside sources" only.

http://m.firstpost.com/politics/will-rs ... tml?page=1

Well RSS is the last stop. Now they want the RSS to stop Modi because he is not Hindutva enough!

On Page 4, she speaks of "Bharatiyata" Hmmm interesting!

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 04 Jun 2013 20:34

^^ The PAIDMEDIA is doing every thing they can for the Maino clan. Deceit, Divide and Destroy Modi and BJP. The sad things is knowing this all, time and again several patriotic leaders are falling for this deceit because of their personal egos and ambitions.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2013 20:59

RajeshA wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:And now we are treated to the sorry spectacle of sagareeka ghose deliberating on internal sangh matters, no doubt aided by fictional "inside sources" only.

http://m.firstpost.com/politics/will-rs ... tml?page=1
Well RSS is the last stop. Now they want the RSS to stop Modi because he is not Hindutva enough!

On Page 4, she speaks of "Bharatiyata" Hmmm interesting!

The earlier, psy-ops of
Modi vs D4 vs Gadakari vs Advani vs Modi vs SSC vs Nitish vs <put your name here> flopped.

So they moved on to Advani vs Modi.

that seemed to flop without a trace, no one gave a damn (apart from some here on BRF)

So now they are in desperation trying RSS vs Modi, hoping something will stick.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2013 21:01

vivek.rao wrote:^^ The PAIDMEDIA is doing every thing they can for the Maino clan. Deceit, Divide and Destroy Modi and BJP. The sad things is knowing this all, time and again several patriotic leaders are falling for this deceit because of their personal egos and ambitions.

Vivek, which leader is falling for it? Only some on BRF are falling for it.

Why blame others ? Does some one seriously think that the resolution in Kkta could have been without RNS tacit approval? If that is so, it is given that RSS and Advani have approved it in the background.

Why miss the real life data and instead fall for kite flying by MSM?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 Jun 2013 22:18

Sure Advani can easily become a PM candidate. To me Advani is a listless diluted sambhar from the previous night. Added some water, extra pinch of turmeric and some sambhar powder. It is not like freshly cut vegetables and dhaal were added too, he will remain yesterday's piping hot sambhar.

Rajnath Singh as PM? He is like 2 day old hard stale/pale Idli.

Modi is da package. White fluffy idli, with buckets of sambhar, coconut chutney, pudhina chutney and molaga podi (with sesame oil, sugar..).

Sure some might point out the whiteness is from baking soda and very highly polished rice. Why eat stale idli (which had the same whitening ingredient), plus old diluted sambhar, eh

?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2013 22:24

^^^
By that description, MuKa is a case for +ve food poisoning, but he will win again given half a chance.

So clearly your food analogy finds few takers SwamyG, even at the cost of the entire state suffering from diarrhea.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 Jun 2013 22:44

^^^
Few takers? How did you decide that

If JJ handles the power crisis, then she will win again. Hopefully she does not indulge in corruption or some stupid ass move (she is capable of that as well). For now her rule has been ok. As of now she is in the camp of Modi. MuKa however bad he is, has a strong following. He has to fool only a few lakh people in the state. Advani has to convince a whole lot more. MuKa was an ideologue, and you compare MuKa and Advani

Poor Advani.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 Jun 2013 22:46

Sanku wrote:^^^
By that description, MuKa is a case for +ve food poisoning, but he will win again given half a chance.

So clearly your food analogy finds few takers SwamyG, even at the cost of the entire state suffering from diarrhea.

Similarly your statement that LKA can be PM candidate if he wants and he can any LS seat from the states you mentioned finds few, rather very few takers.

Have you even considered the fact that you are trying to push down the throat of the aam bjp karyakarta a candidate the he/she really doesn't want to campaign for.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 04 Jun 2013 22:48

panduranghari wrote:
Atri wrote: true..

As far as I know, no such problems exist between RSS (top and bottom, whichever cadre you say) and NaMo. I will only say that NaMo has a very strong vipareeta rajayoga. Everyone is so far performing their roles as per the script.

Your knowledge is simply amazing.

I meant in non jyotisha way, Pandurang ji.. I have not seen his chart. But if it fits this way too, well and good..

I meant, more you oppose NM, more he rises high..

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2013 22:50

muraliravi wrote:[
Similarly your statement that LKA can be PM candidate if he wants and he can any LS seat from the states you mentioned finds few, rather very few takers.
.

Muraliravi-ji, dont mind but if I may ask, are you in India or elsewhere? how many BJP cadres do you know personally?

BRF is hardly India you know.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2013 22:56

SwamyG wrote:^^^
Few takers? How did you decide that

Vote share for party saar, ONLY deciding factor.

I am inclined to believe that NaMo may deliver more seats only now that some of the surveys show extra vote % for BJP with him, but the thing to note is that BJP is getting a 6% even without him.

So yes, few takers, unless of course, you are saying people like stale food.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 Jun 2013 22:57

Sanku wrote:
muraliravi wrote:[
Similarly your statement that LKA can be PM candidate if he wants and he can any LS seat from the states you mentioned finds few, rather very few takers.
.
Muraliravi-ji, dont mind but if I may ask, are you in India or elsewhere? how many BJP cadres do you know personally?

BRF is hardly India you know.

Well, surveys dont lie. Every gad damn survey I know where BJP voters were asked who is their preference for BJP's PM nominee, Modi beats advani by a mile.

Every public forum where modi addresses BJP workers generates a level of enthusiam which advani can only dream of. In fact advani has destroyed the great image that he had among bjp cadre by staying on for so long and creating confusion

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 Jun 2013 22:58

Sanku wrote:
SwamyG wrote:^^^
Few takers? How did you decide that
Vote share for party saar, ONLY deciding factor.

I am inclined to believe that NaMo may deliver more seats only now that some of the surveys show extra vote % for BJP with him, but the thing to note is that BJP is getting a 6% even without him.

So yes, few takers, unless of course, you are saying people like stale food.

Is that 6% even if he doesn't campaign. I am quite sure that 6% will drop if modi abstains from campaigning. I am not saying that he should, but he should if LKA is declared as PM nominee, simply becos BJP will lose if LKA is declared.

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 04 Jun 2013 23:05

Regarding MMJ. He will lose his deposit if he contests from Varanasi again. The anger against him on the ground is incredible. He is supposed to be an MP in absentia. Rumour is that he visits only to buy another flat. Most likely he will be moved to another seat like he was moved from allahabad to varanasi. it is an insult to the local leaders, who have waited their turn to get a shot at the MP seat. But in comes some supposedly high profile national leader who needs a safe seat, because he can't win any on his own!

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2013 23:10

muraliravi wrote: Well, surveys dont lie. Every gad damn survey I know where BJP voters were asked who is their preference for BJP's PM nominee, Modi beats advani by a mile.

Survey's dont lie? Too much of a stretch. Ever heard of "lies, damn lies and statistics"?

Yet even if we take the survey's by face value it shows BJP anyway up by 6%, with extra 6% for Modi. So 6% extra for Modi true, but that is very different from the current misguided name calling exercise going on around here.

I am still waiting for your response about knowing BJP cadre personally on ground in India right now btw.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2013 23:12

muraliravi wrote: Is that 6% even if he doesn't campaign. I am quite sure that 6% will drop if modi abstains from campaigning. I am not saying that he should, but he should if LKA is declared as PM nominee, simply becos BJP will lose if LKA is declared.

Oh please.

This is called letting your biases run away with your reasoning.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 Jun 2013 23:35

Sanku wrote:
muraliravi wrote: Well, surveys dont lie. Every gad damn survey I know where BJP voters were asked who is their preference for BJP's PM nominee, Modi beats advani by a mile.
Survey's dont lie? Too much of a stretch. Ever heard of "lies, damn lies and statistics"?

Yet even if we take the survey's by face value it shows BJP anyway up by 6%, with extra 6% for Modi. So 6% extra for Modi true, but that is very different from the current misguided name calling exercise going on around here.

I am still waiting for your response about knowing BJP cadre personally on ground in India right now btw.

Yes quite extensively, but only in TN.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2013 23:42

muraliravi wrote: Yes quite extensively, but only in TN.

Perhaps that is the trouble, TN is not representative of BJP in India. You might have a different picture if you knew BJP workers from areas where BJP is in entrenched position.

This is not to mean that BJP workers in TN are not right or entitled to their opinion, only that the dynamics are different overall.

Devendra · Post by **Devendra** » 05 Jun 2013 00:08

http://navbharattimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 429656.cms
"मंगलवार को नई दिल्ली में आयोजित प्रेस कॉन्फ्रेंस में बाबा रामदेव ने खुलकर ऐलान कर दिया है कि वह 2014 के लोकसभा चुनाव में नरेंद्र मोदी के पक्ष में प्रचार करेंगे। साथ ही उन्होंने यह भी कहा कि वह एनडीए की तरफ से मोदी को पीएम कैंडिडेट बनवाने के लिए बिहार के मुख्यमंत्री नीतीश कुमार को भी मना लेंगे। इसके अलावा एक चैनल के साथ इंटरव्यू में मोदी के दामन पर गुजरात दंगों के दाग को रामदेव ने सिरे से खारिज कर दिया। उन्होंने कहा कि देश के बंटवारे के समय करीब 10 लाख लोग मारे गए, क्या उसके लिए उस वक्त के प्रधानमंत्री पंडित नेहरू जिम्मेदार हैं? अगर उन मौतों के लिए नेहरू जिम्मेदार नहीं है तो फिर गुजरात दंगों के लिए मोदी कैसे जिम्मेदार हैं?"