Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Sushupti
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5198
Joined: 22 Dec 2010 21:24

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 30 Sep 2013 04:54

This is really shameful! Careerist PM gives higher priority to American interests over Indian interests. Now we know why VK Singh is so bitter about "Chandigarh" lobby in GOI.Talking of multiple "Sarkars" as mentioned by MOdi, it's the "sarkar" of MMS which takes the decisions in matters related to Pak. VK Singh has hardly said anything against Sonia. All his anger has been towards MMS lobby i.e. Chandigarh lobby.

‘Army’s secret Division would have prevented Samba-like encounters’

The Samba attack by Pakistan-based elements could have been avoided if the Technical Services Division (TSD) had not been shut down a year ago, claim senior military officers who wish to remain unnamed. Speaking to them, it becomes clear that the decision by incoming Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Bikram Singh to shut down the TSD of the Army immediately upon taking charge from General V.K. Singh a year ago has been greeted with dismay by his own officers, especially those on the frontline of Pakistan terror. These officers say that the scrapping of the TSD is a major reason why there has been a spurt in cross-border intrusions over the past year, and warn that unless the organisation gets re-established, counter-insurgency operations will suffer.

"The decision to finish off TSD was political and not military. It was done to show (former COAS) General V.K. Singh in a bad light," a senior officer commented, while another claimed that "the TSD enabled our boys to get prior information on the movements of terror groups, so that these were caught before sneaking into India". He claimed that "despite the effort by the ISI to create a Kashmir Intifada by motivating youngsters to pelt stones at security forces, the situation was quickly brought under control." An officer claimed that the TSD was able to use technical means to operate deep within Pakistan and find out the trajectories of terror plots against targets in India. "At a cost of just Rs 20-30 crore annually, the Army was able to finally reach the actual sources of terror operations and not just tackle the symptoms," a former officer claimed.


http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/arm ... encounters

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5717
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vishvak » 30 Sep 2013 05:26

Hiding actual terror sources and wasting time on merely treating symptoms : not good by any standard. Very clearly it has resulted in more insurgency and soldiers at the border are paying the price.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36405
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 30 Sep 2013 05:36

I think we need to dig further and nail all the traitors and METEs within... I think that should happen within next year.

Victor
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2628
Joined: 24 Apr 2001 11:31

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Victor » 30 Sep 2013 06:04

Bikram Singh is MMS pick, groomed to be a pliant army chief. VKS knew how dangerous this could be if the chips were down and did what he could to stay on as long as possible.

SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16144
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 30 Sep 2013 07:53

Looks like the crowd turnout, in Delhi, was less than expected. Either the Delhi BJP were too optimistic or silly to proclaim 5 Lakh would attend. Giving such precise and large number is an invitation for unnecessary belittling of the event. Looks like some BJP cadres had to be bused in. If reports are to believed the attendance varied from 1.3 to 3 lakhs. It all depends on who is asked for the numbers. It is better to under sell and delivers more, than over selling.

Does anybody know the average attendance size for the political meetings of other political leaders? Without such a base, it is not meaningful to understand the crowd at Modi's rallies.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36405
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 30 Sep 2013 07:56

yeah!.. lets get out the stats here for analysis.

vivek.rao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3775
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vivek.rao » 30 Sep 2013 08:08

ramana wrote:I bet judiciary will ensure that Lalu is neither indicted nor scot free.


Exactly... democle's sword...

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pranav » 30 Sep 2013 08:15

anmol wrote:What about Dr Harshavardhan ?


If you look at the content of the speeches of the local leaders, Dr Harshavardhan was most modern and progressive. IMO he would make a good CM, even if he is not very flashy.

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pranav » 30 Sep 2013 08:18

RoyG wrote:Modi is unstoppable. He will be PM if he manages to stay alive. I get the feeling jihadis will pull something. Congress is straight up f*cked if he wins the general elections. This speech is a turning point in India's history.


Besides Jihadis, there are EVMs, and the paid media which can rationalize any outcome.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21126
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Prem » 30 Sep 2013 08:24

Will /is India go or going through Colorless Color revolution? We are going to witness the great event for which India have been waiting for over a millennium.
Last edited by Prem on 30 Sep 2013 08:34, edited 1 time in total.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36405
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 30 Sep 2013 08:30

I can handle kangrez/modi winning or losing, but I can't handle this 'paid media' bijnej... I am sure mms gov will put an ordinance to block that crime being not committed. paid media means equals paki dung media!! what more one can get loh(w)?

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RamaY » 30 Sep 2013 08:34

Devesh garu

Pls watch this weeks Open Heart with RK with Revanth Reddy. It shows how close leader from different parties to each other. Yet, it also proves the point that people of different ideologies can be identified from even same family.

Most importantly watch last 10 mins where talks about 2014 elections. He talks about the need for both left and right to come together to defeat congress.

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pranav » 30 Sep 2013 08:35

SwamyG wrote:Looks like the crowd turnout, in Delhi, was less than expected. Either the Delhi BJP were too optimistic or silly to proclaim 5 Lakh would attend. Giving such precise and large number is an invitation for unnecessary belittling of the event. Looks like some BJP cadres had to be bused in. If reports are to believed the attendance varied from 1.3 to 3 lakhs. It all depends on who is asked for the numbers. It is better to under sell and delivers more, than over selling.

Does anybody know the average attendance size for the political meetings of other political leaders? Without such a base, it is not meaningful to understand the crowd at Modi's rallies.


Meenakshi Lekhi says that a police officer told her it was 9 lakhs.

Kanchan Gupta tweeted that it was bigger than Jaipur, which itself was estimated at 5 lakhs.

IMO BJP should set up some system to count number of attendees in their rallies.

kmkraoind
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3908
Joined: 27 Jun 2008 00:24

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby kmkraoind » 30 Sep 2013 08:38

KJoishy wrote:how do you guys paste twitter stuff as images? Do you take a screenshot, crop, upload and link?


https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... lightshot/ along with imageshack for uploading. Lightshot add-on is available even for chrome.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36405
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 30 Sep 2013 08:43

editing and uploading is a pain.. it has to be hosted some where nah? instead the twitter folks should provide you the data by link - all you are interested is in the text rather the png/jpgs.

Tumba
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 53
Joined: 06 Aug 2011 09:25

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Tumba » 30 Sep 2013 08:46

Pranav wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Looks like the crowd turnout, in Delhi, was less than expected. Either the Delhi BJP were too optimistic or silly to proclaim 5 Lakh would attend. Giving such precise and large number is an invitation for unnecessary belittling of the event. Looks like some BJP cadres had to be bused in. If reports are to believed the attendance varied from 1.3 to 3 lakhs. It all depends on who is asked for the numbers. It is better to under sell and delivers more, than over selling.

Does anybody know the average attendance size for the political meetings of other political leaders? Without such a base, it is not meaningful to understand the crowd at Modi's rallies.


Meenakshi Lekhi says that a police officer told her it was 9 lakhs.

Kanchan Gupta tweeted that it was bigger than Jaipur, which itself was estimated at 5 lakhs.

IMO BJP should set up some system to count number of attendees in their rallies.


why some people want to spread misinformation specially a member of BRF who looks more and more dimwit closet Modi hater sitting in amreeka ??? I bet this turd never even voted in his life leave alone attending a political rally.
Japanese ground itself had around 4-5 lakh people and same number was present outside. BJP spokeman confirmed the same to TimesNow from the ground after the Modi bhashan.
Last edited by archan on 30 Sep 2013 10:02, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: warning issued. clean up your language or stop posting on BRF

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9747
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Yagnasri » 30 Sep 2013 08:47

Waste of time. Meet like Delhi create momentum. Getting vote on the polling day is more important. It is like wind and raising the sail and managing the boat. Most of the people are acting too optimistic. People has to be careful and win each seat methodically.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36405
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 30 Sep 2013 09:00

methods come by way of plans for winning!
that is based on a list of objectives and
campaign promises to verifiable specifics
people needs to know what is going to change
if modi comes to power, especially that interest them
and their surroundings and livelihood.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9241
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 30 Sep 2013 09:08

^^IMO< there were efforts at least on part of the sang, to count and court the attendees.... rumours of voter registration status and feedback forms were doing the rounds. I'd say, the subtext has changed and not necessarily subtly in the last 2 poll cycles.

We have a voting majority that reached voting age after the '91 reforms were launched, a clear majority that has access and exposure to the wider world outside their gram/mohalla/small-town. IMO, the mandal caste cauldron has run through its course and the resulting faultlines are slowly but surely up for grabs ... this poll will be exciting.

I'm hoping BJP on its own crosses 200+. I would be seriously disappointed if BJP doesn't beat its previous best (182 circa 1999, right?)... I'd be elated if they cross something like 220... would be lungi dancing a bhangra with dandiya sticks in nagaland if they actually touch 250 .... 272+ is a long term goal, aspirational and morale boosting but ultimately unrealistic... in 2014, IMHO.

rajeshkathiriya
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 15:58

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby rajeshkathiriya » 30 Sep 2013 09:13

Rajnath replaces Modi as BJP campaign committee chief

http://deshgujarat.com/2013/09/30/rajna ... tee-chief/

Sushupti
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5198
Joined: 22 Dec 2010 21:24

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 30 Sep 2013 09:35

Pranav wrote:
anmol wrote:What about Dr Harshavardhan ?


If you look at the content of the speeches of the local leaders, Dr Harshavardhan was most modern and progressive. IMO he would make a good CM, even if he is not very flashy.


I read somewhere that he was x---->0 close to joining AAP. But finaly good senses prevailed.

anmol
BRFite
Posts: 1758
Joined: 05 May 2009 17:39

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby anmol » 30 Sep 2013 09:37

SaiK wrote:editing and uploading is a pain.. it has to be hosted some where nah? instead the twitter folks should provide you the data by link - all you are interested is in the text rather the png/jpgs.


Well, most solutions including Greenshot automatically upload it to some image hosting site (imgur in case of greenshot) and copies link to clipboard.

Sridhar K
BRFite
Posts: 813
Joined: 12 Sep 2002 11:31

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sridhar K » 30 Sep 2013 09:48

When I was last in Chennai and struggled with directions the auto/taxi/other folk had no issues switching to Hindi and assisting me or taking me to places.


Viv, It is more of an exception than norm. Also have to admit that over the last few years, there are more people who can speak Hindi in Chennai than it used to be in the past due to the huge migration from Bihar, Orissa, NE and UP in the construction, security and hospitality industry. In fact in most of the corporate houses in Chennai, it is far easy to deal with security if you know Hindi these days.

The same does not apply to Tiruchi though. FWIW, people in TN are more comfortable in understanding English over Hindi but for the purpose of this rally, I guess it did not matter but getting Tamil speakers during the election campaigning may help a bit.

M Joshi
BRFite
Posts: 298
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby M Joshi » 30 Sep 2013 09:59

The only way CongI can minimise their damage is by declaring elections in December last week at the last moment. Most of the middle class all over India would be on holidays, and many in North will not come out to vote only due to cold. There you go, 1-3% less vote in favor of NaMo & Congis can save their as*es to a bit.


kittoo
BRFite
Posts: 969
Joined: 08 Mar 2009 02:08

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby kittoo » 30 Sep 2013 10:56

Laloo convicted. This creates very interesting possibilities. Will Congress go with Nitish? What will happen with Yadav votes? Muslims will go to Congress. What will happen to Nitish's vote bank if he goes with Congress now?

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/live- ... 41479.html

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8188
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pratyush » 30 Sep 2013 11:05

Nitish is a lame duck CM, who will not get a third term. Unless he manages to pull in the support of the Yadav's. But in this mix, you have signals, that, the yadav's may not be averse to the BJP.

Interesting, that Nitish could be so foolish, to alienate the greatest source of support, the BJP.

Shanmukh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Shanmukh » 30 Sep 2013 11:11

Pratyush wrote:Nitish is a lame duck CM, who will not get a third term. Unless he manages to pull in the support of the Yadav's. But in this mix, you have signals, that, the yadav's may not be averse to the BJP.

Interesting, that Nitish could be so foolish, to alienate the greatest source of support, the BJP.


The danger is that Nitish may just prove enough of a spoiler, for the Muslim tactical voting to succeed. But, on the good side, it gives the BJP's OBC leaders a perfect opportunity to step up and take a larger role than they have been playing thus far, and grow into it.

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8188
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Pratyush » 30 Sep 2013 11:13

Salman Khurshid Speaks

Narendra Modi doesn't like 'dehati aurat': Salman Khurshid

"Mr Modi does not like 'dehati aurat'. Of course he does not like dehati aurat. Why should we think of a dehati aurat being a pejorative term


Some one has to teach the super educated, ministers of the UPA, that context is every thing. Take things out of context, you will miss the forest for the trees, or is it the other way round.

krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krishnan » 30 Sep 2013 11:14

Image

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Singha » 30 Sep 2013 11:29

the ghaznavid sultanate licking its fleshy lips, had sent a RBI letter to all rich temples ripe for plunder.

Guruvayur temple, in Kerala, one of the most sacred in India and boasting a 33.5-metre (110-ft) gold-plated flagstaff, has already told the RBI it won't divulge any details. "The gold we have is mostly offered by the devotees. They would not like the details to be shared with anybody," said V M Gopala Menon, commissioner of the temple's administrative board. The World Gold Council estimates there are about 2,000 tonnes of gold locked away in temples - worth about $84 billion at current prices - which Indian devotees have offered in the form of jewellery, bars, coins and even replicas of body parts, in the hope of winning favours from the gods or in thanks for blessings received and health restored.

Read more at: http://ibnlive.in.com/news/gods-forbid- ... ef_article

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9747
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Yagnasri » 30 Sep 2013 11:30

Bihar will be fluid for some time and Modi visit there next month will creat a idea for bjp supporters and others. Bihar is looking for development and Nithish no longer represent it. Modi being a bc will also be played in Bihar in 2014 and foundation for the same will be laid next month.

subhamoy.das
BRFite
Posts: 1027
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby subhamoy.das » 30 Sep 2013 11:39

Sagar G wrote:
subhamoy.das wrote:So who in the world is gold standard of governance and nationalism in your mind? China may be? Saudi Arabia or wait a minute Britain ? And not sure what makes u so proud of your Indian passport when the same govt takes away all your freedom and harasses you at every point - be tax or medical help or police help or judicary help or .....


Everybody isn't like you who keeps looking to outside powers searching for a "gold standard" and dying to get their acceptance. All the rest of the lecture from you is hilarious given the recent disclosure about US goberments spying programmes not only all over the world but for each and every house in the state so please spare me your lecture of "freedom" in US. Indian history, her resilience, her courage under adverse conditions, her people, her language, her food, her potential all these make me very proud of my motherland you can keep cowering in shame and keep doing US/gora mahimamandan but find some other thread.

If you still persist I will report your post for flame baiting.


As I said, you are free to hate US. I donot care at all but you are mixing up civilization with good governance. To be proud of your culture and civilization your first name is good enough to be proud of. But u are proud of your passport which is a govt document and represents the govt that governs you and treats you. U are proud of your passport simply means, my friend, that you are a happy camper of the govt and the dynasty which is actually running the govt. There is nothing wrong in being on the side of the dynasty. Just wanted to point out. Meanwhile continue to remain proud when you are harassed and sliced at every point u go to the GOVT for service and keep paying your hard earned money of all kinds of TAX and bribes only to be looted by it in name of social welfare! Why are u then supporting NAMO if u are so proud of your passport.

Fight logic with logic and not restore to tactics like "report your post..."

kittoo
BRFite
Posts: 969
Joined: 08 Mar 2009 02:08

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby kittoo » 30 Sep 2013 11:41

Narayana Rao wrote:Bihar will be fluid for some time and Modi visit there next month will creat a idea for bjp supporters and others. Bihar is looking for development and Nithish no longer represent it. Modi being a bc will also be played in Bihar in 2014 and foundation for the same will be laid next month.


I have a feeling that Nitish will not allow the Modi rally to happen, on some 'communal disturbance' grounds.

archan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6821
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 21:30
Contact:

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby archan » 30 Sep 2013 12:02

shubamoy.das and Sagar G, enough. Any more from either of you and action will be taken against you.


sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10018
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby sum » 30 Sep 2013 12:12

^^ Hope to see a similar article one day titled "What Modi's puppy episode tells us about DDM and their IQ"

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby harbans » 30 Sep 2013 12:27

Someone here had posted some rare early pictures of Narendra Modi on this thread..i was trying to find them. Can someone help?

Lilo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4069
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 09:08

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Lilo » 30 Sep 2013 12:40

H ji,
Here you go.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BUCvjAUCAAISLh5.jpg

kittoo wrote:Laloo convicted. This creates very interesting possibilities. Will Congress go with Nitish? What will happen with Yadav votes? Muslims will go to Congress. What will happen to Nitish's vote bank if he goes with Congress now?

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/live- ... 41479.html


Still waiting for a major politico to break down in congress blackmail and go all guns blazing attack against the dynasty.

Laloo
Mulayam
Maya
Jagan gang
MuKa gang

All the above have been totally tarred and feathered by caged parrot in scams and illegal asset deals where dynasty itself is a bigger beneficiary. Yet dynasty managed to always come out squeaky clean out of all 2G , Coal ityadi.No CBI ever investigates the assets of Dynasty.
The noholds barred blowback from these regional satraps is still being awaited.

Saral
BRFite
Posts: 1663
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 14:05

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Saral » 30 Sep 2013 13:28

From 2009, an essay on Indian Identity. Where we are now is the result of many forces gradually building up a head of steam. There is nothing as compelling as an idea whose time has come and packaged as it does in the person of NaMo, it is compelling. Subhamoy Das and his thread "opponents" are talking past each other. That is, I can't see what the actual argument is there but a premature decision to disagree/dislike based on preconceptions on what the other is putting forth. It is obvious that the American constitution and the American state are hugely influential in the evolution of modern nation states, federalism, rights etc. America is very much relevant but not necessarily the right model for handling diversity for others. Nations, especially those with civilizational continuities need to create their own sustainable paths. To say that the American experience is irrelevant is wrong. To say that it is an aspirational ideal is also wrong. Japan has its own model, as does China (how stable it is remains to be seen). So must India.

We, The Nation(s) Of India

India breathes through her multiplicity, not her fragmenting voices

RAJIV MALHOTRA

THERE IS a buzz about India becoming a superpower. But, are superpowers confused about national identity or inviting others to solve their civilisation’s “backwardness”? Does a superpower allow foreign nexuses to co-opt its citizens as agents? India graciously hosts foreign nexuses that treat it as a collection of disparate parts. Is super - powerdom delusionary?

The Mumbai massacre painfully exposes flaws in our national character, the central one being the absence of a definitive, purpose-filled identity. Who is that “we” whose interests are represented, internally and internationally? How should Indianness be defined? Where is the Indianness that transcends narrow identities and vested interests, one that is worth sacrificing for? Is it in the popular culture of Bollywood and cricket? Or is it deeper? The national identity project is at once urgent and compelling.

The need for national identity
In their pursuit of personal goals, Indians are intensely competitive. But we lack consensus on a shared national essence and hence there is no deep psychological bond between citizen and nation. National identity is to a nation’s well-being what the immune system is to the body’s health. The over-stressed body succumbs to external and internal threats, and eventually death, as its immunity weakens. Similarly, a nation stressed by a vacuum of identity, or multiple conflicting identities, or outright confusion, can break up. Just as the body’s immune system needs constant rejuvenation, so too a nation needs a positive collective psyche for its political cohesion.

Major nations deliberately pursue nation building through such devices as shared myths, history, heroes, religion, ideology, language and symbolism. Despite internal dissent, Americans have deep pride of heritage, and have constructed awe-inspiring monuments to their founding fathers and heroic wars. Where are Delhi’s monuments honouring the wars of 1857 or 1971, Shivaji, the Vijayanagar Empire, Ashoka, or the peaceful spread of Indian civilisation across Asia for a millennium? Where are the museums that showcase India’s special place in the world?

Forces that fragment
Voices of fragmentation drive India’s internal politics — from Raj Thackeray to M Karunanidhi to Mamata Banerjee to the Quota Raj to the agents of foreign proselytising. While social injustice, in India and elsewhere, demands effective cures, proper treatments do not follow faulty diagnoses. Since colonial times, influential scholars have propagated that there is no such thing as Indian civilisation. India was “civilised” by successive waves of invaders. The quest for Indianness is futile since India was never a nation. The noted historian Romila Thapar concludes that India’s pluralism has no essence. Like a doughnut, the center is void; only the peripheries have identity.

Such thinking infects Indian elite. Supreme Court Justice Markandey Katju, citing western historians, asserts that the Munda tribes are the only true natives and that 95 percent of Indians are immigrants; that all so-called Aryan and Dravidian classical languages are foreign, ruling out anything as pan-Indian in our antiquity; and that worthwhile Indian civilisation begins with Akbar, “the greatest ruler the world has ever seen.”

This accelerating crescendo, portraying India as an inherently artificial, oppressive nation, is directed by western academics advocating western intervention to bring human rights. It is supported by private foundations, churches and the US government and promotes fragmentation by bolstering regional identities, “backward” castes, and religious minorities. Sadly, our own people, such as many activists and the westernised upper class, have internalised India's “oppression of minorities.” The human catastrophe that would envelope diverse groups — especially the weakest — in the aftermath of India’s break up is blithely ignored.

Beyond tolerance and assimilation
Critics worry that national identity promotes fascism. But while many civilisations have used identity for conquest, my vision of Indianness is driven by mutual respect. We respect the other who is different provided the other reciprocates with respect towards us, in rhetoric and in action. The religious “tolerance” of Judaism, Islam and Christianity is a patronising accommodation; it puts up with others’ differences without respecting their right to be different. In contradistinction, Indian civilisation embraces differences reciprocally.

Movements that eradicate differences span the ideological spectrum. Some religions claim mandates from God to convert the religiously different. Although the European Enlightenment project dispensed with God, it enabled erasing ethnic diversity through genocide of Native Americans and slavery of African-Americans. Asians were luckier, because they could become “less different” via colonisation.

Today, many Indians erase their distinctiveness by glamorising white identity as the gold standard. Skin lighteners are literal whiteners. Media and pop culture incorporate white aesthetics, body language and attire for social status, careers and marriage. The venerable “namaste” is becoming a marker of the older generations and the servants. Pop Hindu gurus peddle the “everything is the same” mumbojumbo, ignoring even the distinctions between the dharmic and the un-dharmic. Intellectuals adopt white categories of discourse as “universal”.

Difference eradicating ideologies are hegemonic. Either you (i) assimilate, (ii) oppose and suffer, or (iii) get contained and marginalised.

But Indian philosophy is built on celebrating diversity — in trees, flowers, matter, human bodies, minds, languages and cultures, spiritualities and traditions — and does not see it as a problem to be dealt with.

All social groups manifest an affinity for in-group relations but in the ideal Indian ethos, in-group affinity is without external aggression. Before colonial social engineering, traditional Indian castes were fluid, informal containers of identities, interwoven with one another, and not frozen hierarchically. This applied to Muslims, Christians and Hindus. Each caste had its distinct norms and was respected by others. My India is a web of thousands of castes encapsulating diverse genes and memes. This ideal is the exact opposite of fascist ethnocentrism.

Diversity yes, fragmentation no
The socially mobile castes that had preserved India's diversity were frozen into castes to serve the British divide-andrule. Independent India adopted caste identities to allocate quotas instead of safeguarding individual rights. When the Congress party failed to integrate a vast mishmash of subidentities, regional vote-banking entrepreneurs captured India’s political fragments. Now, national interests are casually disregarded for fear of offending these fragments.

Globalisation has opened the floodgates for minority leaders to tie-up with western churches and NGOs, Saudis, Chinese and just about anyone wanting to carve out a slice of the Indian elephant. Such minorities include the Nagas, now serving as a foreign subsidiary of the Texas Southern Baptist Church; Tamils who first got Dravidianised and are now being Christianised through identity engineering; Maoists in over 30 percent of India's districts; and Saudifunded Pan-Islamists expanding across India. These fragmented identities weaken Indianness due to their loyalty to foreign alliances. The leaders depend on foreign headquarters for ideological and financial support.

Such groups are no longer minorities, but are agents of dominant world majorities. They are franchisees of the global nexuses they serve. They are adversaries of the Indian identity formation. Do they truly help India’s under classes? These global nexuses have a disappointing track record of solving problems in countries where they have operated for generations, including Latin America, Philippines and Africa where most natives have become converted. The imported religion has failed to bring human rights and has often exacerbated problems. Yet, Indian middlemen have mastered the art of begging foreign patronage in exchange for selling the souls of fellow Indians.

Towards an Indian identity
Hindutva is a modern political response lacking the elasticity to be the pan-Indian identity. Other popular ideas are equally shallow, such as the Indianness defined by Bollywood and cricket. Ideals like “secular democracy” and “development” do not a distinct national identity make. It is fashionable to blend pop culture with European ideologies and pass it off as Indianness. Such blends cannot bind a complex India together against fissiparous casteism and regionalism coming in the orbits of Islamist jihad and evangelical Christianity. Indianness must override fragmented identities, no matter how large the vote bank or how powerful the foreign sponsor. Gandhi articulated a grand narrative for India. Tagore and Aurobindo saw continuity in Indian civilisation. Nehru had a national vision, which Indira Gandhi modified and defended fiercely. The Ashokan, Chola, and Maratha empires had well defined narratives, each with an idea of India.

Debating Indianness fearlessly and fairly
A robust Indianness must become the context in which serious issues get debated. Everyone should be able to participate — be it Advani or Sonia, the Imam of Jama Masjid or Hindu gurus, Thackeray or the underworld — in a free and fair debate on Indianness, and no one should be exempt from criticism.

But the Indian intellectual mafia, which built careers by importing and franchising foreign doctrines, suppresses debate outside its framework, and brands honest attempts at opposing them as fascism. I offer a few examples.

A few years before 9/11, the Princeton-based Infinity Foundation proposed to a prestigious Delhi-based centre to research the Taliban and their impact on India. The centre’s intellectuals pronounced the hypothesis an unrealistic conspiracy theory and unworthy of study. Even after 9/11, the American Academy of Religion refused to study the Taliban as a religious phenomenon while persisting with Hindu caste, cows, dowry, mothers-in-law, social oppression, violence and sundry intellectual staples.

Some analysts hyphenate Islamist terror with Kashmir, imputing that terrorism is a legitimate dispute resolution technique. “The plight of Muslims” is a rationalisation; and Martha Nussbaum, a University of Chicago professor, blames “Hindu fascism” as the leading cause of terrorism and justifies the Mumbai massacre by hyphenating it with Hindu “pogroms,” Hindu “ethnic cleansing against Muslims,” and the Hindu project to “Kill Christians and destroy their institutions.” Her insensitivity to the victims, just two days after 26/11, was given a free pass by the LA Times. Double standards are evident when cartoons lampooning Islam are condemned, whereas serious attacks against Hindu deities, symbols and texts are defended in the name of intellectual freedom.

Be positive and “live happily ever after”
The Bollywood grand finale, where the couple lives happily ever after, is de rigueur. Friends insist that my analysis must end with something positive by way of solving the problems I uncover. Hard evidence of dangerous cleavages in India, spinning out of control, is too “negative.” The need to work backwards from a happy ending and only admit evidence that fits such endings is an Indian psychological disorder. But we don’t expect doctors to reject negative diagnoses, analysts to ignore market crashes, or teachers to praise our unruly children. What if there is no “good” alternative?

It is disturbing that strategic options against Pakistan must subserve the sensitivities of Indian Muslims. This gratuitously assumes that Indian Muslims are less Indian than Muslim. Some fear that strong Indian action will precipitate increased jihad, or even nuclear war. Such fears recapitulate the early campaigns to appease Hitler. Once a violent cancer spreads outside the tumour’s skin, it demands a direct attack. Vitamins, singing, and lamp-lighting are pointless. In sports or warfare, medicine or marketing, you cannot win by only using defence. The offensive option that cannot be exercised is merely a showpiece. If national interests are dominated by minority sentiments, our enemies will exploit our weakness. A paralysed India emboldens predators.

Games nations play
After Indians return to psychological normalcy, apathy will be confused as resilience. When each episode is seen in isolation there is short-term thinking, a tolerance of terrorism, and an acceptance that mere survival is adequate. Strategic planning requires connecting the trends clearly.

Indians must understand the reality of multiple geopolitical board games. Moves on one gameboard trigger consequences on others, making the tradeoffs complex. The South Asia gameboard involves USA-India-Pakistan as well as China-Pakistan stakes. Besides external games with its neighbours, India plays internal games to appease fragments, which are influenced by foreign stakeholders. Religion is used as soft power in the game of Islam versus the West, and India’s fragmentation hastens the harvesting of souls in the world's largest open market. The multinational business gameboard spotlights India as a market, a supplier, a competitor, and an investment destination.

In another gameboard, scholars of South Asia construct a discourse with Indian intellectuals as their sepoys and affiliated NGOs as paid agents. Following the academic and human rights experts who profited from the Iraq invasion, the players in this game hope that US president designate Barack Obama will budget billions to “engage South Asia.”

The identity challenges are offset by forces that hold India together. Private enterprises that span the entire country bring cohesion that depends on high economic growth and its trickle down to the lowest strata to outpace population growth and social unrest. Economic prosperity is also required for military spending. More than any other institution, the armed forces unify the nation because they realise that soldiers must identify themselves with the nation they are prepared to die for.

Recent US policy supports India’s sovereignty, but this should be seen in the context of using India as a counterweight against Pan-Islam and China. In the long run, the US would like India not to become another unified superpower like China or to disintegrate into a Pakistan-like menace. It will “manage” India between these two extremes. An elephant cannot put itself up for adoption as someone’s pet. It must learn to fend for itself.

Lessons for India
Although the US is a land of immigrants, pride of place goes to the majority religion. Political candidates for high office are seriously disadvantaged if they are not seen as good Christians. The church-state separation is not a mandate to denounce Christianity or privilege minority religions. America was built on white identity that involved the ethnic cleansing of others. To its credit, India has avoided this. Obama sought a better, unified nation and transcended the minorityism of previous Black leaders. Unlike the Dravidianists, Mayawati, and those Muslim and Christian leaders who undermine India's identity, Obama is unabashedly patriotic and a devout follower of its majority religion. America celebrates its tapestry of hyphenated identities (Indian-American, Irish-American, etc.) but “American” supersedes every sub-identity. Being un-American is a death knell for American leaders.

In sharp contrast, Mayawati, Indian Muslim leaders, Indian Christian leaders, Dravidianists and other “minority” vote bankers have consolidated power at the expense of India's unified identity. Unlike the promoters of fragmented Indian identities, Obama is closer to Mahatma Gandhi and Ambedkar, champions of the downtrodden within a unified Indian civilisation.

India can learn from American mechanisms. Indian billionaires must become major stakeholders in constructing positive discourse on the nation. They must make strategic commitments like those made by the Carnegies, Rockefellers and Fords in building American identity, its sense of history, and in projecting American ideals. American meritocracy in politics, implemented through internal primaries, is vastly superior to the cronyism in Indian politics.

The area studies programmes in American universities have close links to the government, think tanks and churches, and they examine nations and civilisations from the American perspective. India should establish a network of area studies to study neighboring countries and other regions from India’s viewpoint. India should study China’s establishment of 100 Confucian Studies Chairs worldwide and the civilisational grand narrative of other nations.

Ideological “camps” with pre-packaged solutions are obsolete. The Indian genius must improvise, innovate, and create a national identity worthy of its name.

Rajiv Malhotra is the President, Infinity Foundation, who also writes on issues concerning the place of Indian civilisation in the world

http://archive.tehelka.com/story_main41 ... we_the.asp


Return to “BR Nostalgia Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests