Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

RajeshA
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 18 Oct 2013 15:51

Published on Oct 18, 2013
By Faiz Rahman Siddiqui
BJP goes all out to ensure success of Modi rally: Times of India

KANPUR:The stage has been set for Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's first of the eight rallies across the state after being anointed Bharatiya Janata Party's prime ministerial candidate.

Sources said that the Gujarat state aircraft carrying Modi would land at Chakeri airport. "From airport he will fly in a six-seater helicopter to the helipad at the Chhatrapati Shahu Ji Maharaj University campus. From there, he will cover a stretch of 2 km in an SUV to reach the Social Welfare department ground opposite Gautam Buddha Park in Indira Nagar to address 'Vijay Shankhnad' rally," said city BJP chief Surendra Maithani.


Is it really helpful to put out this amount of information and details out into the open? Doesn't this affect security?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Singha » 18 Oct 2013 15:56

whatever be their politics there is absolutely no comparison between sarah palin and RG
- born of a teacher and track coach, not a octupus dynasty
- she was a school level track and basketball athelete. not a shooting quota munna.
- worked her way up from being a ward councillor to mayor to state governor
- has accepted the responsibility of having a family and 5 kids (those of us who have 2 know how heavy work even 2 is)

RG has accepted the burden of none of the above. people really dont care what are the origins of a person, how they came to life , but whether they are willing to work hard, accept some responsibility and deliver some accountable results. RG is fail on all such counts.

even he had taken up a salaried job on his own merit or started a SME to make clothes one would respect him more than filling a heriditary party post. that way his father is pass, but his late uncle SG not. SG never did hold a non-party job I believe.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby kapilrdave » 18 Oct 2013 15:56

anmol wrote:
disha wrote: Now in the business meeting of mostly parsis - when Godhra comes up - can somebody guess the meaning of "whose shoulders are you using to fire the gun" made by Modi?


Please tell, at least I cant guess. :) (Cong shoulders???)


As I understand it; shoulder of modi, target Gujju businessmen (i.e. Adani) who favor BJP, ultimately benefiting Congi. Right Disha ji?

anmol wrote:Where was he ?


Don't remember but my guess is Mumbai with parsis?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Manu » 18 Oct 2013 16:13

ramana wrote:Rudardev,

I recall you went and got the Nate Silver book "Signal and Noise" on poll predictions. Why not have a google spread sheet of all the past six months and upcoming polls and get the forum consensus of the credibility and start charting the political fortunes, here and in your blog?

PG per bugs in carpet (too lowly to be flies on the wall) has batli problem from all the nikamma family issues.


For what it's worth, no, she does not have this problem. In fact, she is a very devoted mother. Problem is her Hubby's shadow looms large, he has another problem, and it's not Baatli.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby subhamoy.das » 18 Oct 2013 16:14

NAMO is surely making a point that his first priority is improving the life and dignity of amm admi of this country via good governance. In other words he is projecting himself as a true democratic leader and not a Hindu leader per say. Anti-congress, Guj model, Vikas, inclusive growth, anti-family etc are just extensions of the core theme of good governance or good democracy. From toilets before temple to today's remark in Chennai to bring back black money instead of chasing the dream of a muni are reinforcing this image of being pro-governance and pro-democracy. As I have been saying that good governance is the plank on which he is fighting 2014 and it is this plank which is generating the wave of popularity.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby kapilrdave » 18 Oct 2013 16:38

disha wrote:
Agnimitra wrote:Is this true?

Water crisis in most parts of Ahmedabad - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHOCYwHhRUQ

Modhwadia is saying that for all these years there was no problem with rains, but only this year there was a problem and now there is a water crisis.


Yeah it is big blow to Modi. In several areas of Ahmedabad where the housing is properly registered and have functioning societies they have 24 hour "sweet water" supply
[...]
Big blow to Modi.

:lol:

disha wrote:Guys, here is something to chew on:

1. Is there corruption in Gujarat? Absolutely.
[......]
That is half the battle won for many.

+1

I'll tell my observation. There is definitely corruption in Gandhinagar. No state in the world can claim it is 100% free of corruption. There is some amount of corruption at the babu level. The thing is NM has given power to babus that they don't have to go to ministers for every petty thing. Some level of decisions are made at the babu level who have protection of policy and budget allotment. This was done to speed up the development work and not to wait for Mantri's signature. Mantris are bottleneck in any decision. They would bring in every kind of political suggestions/amendments/rejections/corrections etc. The mechanism is completely opposite to how UPA and Saint Antony in particular works. The process is decentralized to get the stuffs realized fast. But like all very good things this also has its own hazards. I will give three examples.

1. The ITI's have been greatly modernized across the state. Budget is not an issue. The budget allocation for infrastructure per collage is at least twice or thrice that what is actually required assuming we buy stuffs for own house. The babus have all the power to spend this budget albeit they have to show the actual spending in terms of real instruments inducted in the collage. Now what babus do is they get a contractor who will routinely "upgrade" the instruments. In every ITI there are latest and greatest computers. But they are upgraded too often unnecessarily. All the teachers get a new 32 GB pen drive every two months without having to return the old one. This is because pen drives get corrupted in two months due to excessive use :eek: :lol: . But at least the staff and students do get good infrastructure.

2. All the government collages need to have very good infrastructure. A govt collage of A'bad got passed its budget of 80 lakh :eek: to improve the infrastructure which includes library, sports room, staff rooms (with A/C), compound, canteen etc. Each subject taught in the collage will get minimum of 30K only to purchase new books for library. For the subject of English 12K was spent and rest went to babu/professor/principal. All the staff rooms, chambers, hall etc. needed to be A/C. Each 5 start A/C came for 80K :eek: . Don't know figures about the sports room but in the end they inducted TT table, pool table, carrom table etc. All these sanctioned by babus.

3. Now something bigger. For the green house farming the top babu has power upto 1cr subsidy. It is common knowledge that you have to keep 20L aside for babus out of 1cr. But the result today is GJ is (probably) does maximum green house farming among all states. GJ's agri growth should be attributed to this also.

So people can draw their own conclusion. If anyone thinks that NM's first priority would be to root out corruption then he is wrong. He will try to reduce it through the use of technology and by devising policies that reduces the power of discrimination. But his first priority will be to get things done. He doesn't mind corruption as long as it is within limit - that's is what my understanding of him is. And he will protect babus also.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby KJo » 18 Oct 2013 17:02

Singha wrote:whatever be their politics there is absolutely no comparison between sarah palin and RG
- born of a teacher and track coach, not a octupus dynasty
- she was a school level track and basketball athelete. not a shooting quota munna.
- worked her way up from being a ward councillor to mayor to state governor
- has accepted the responsibility of having a family and 5 kids (those of us who have 2 know how heavy work even 2 is)

RG has accepted the burden of none of the above. people really dont care what are the origins of a person, how they came to life , but whether they are willing to work hard, accept some responsibility and deliver some accountable results. RG is fail on all such counts.

even he had taken up a salaried job on his own merit or started a SME to make clothes one would respect him more than filling a heriditary party post. that way his father is pass, but his late uncle SG not. SG never did hold a non-party job I believe.


I meant in her tendency to put her foot in her mouth. We here in the US had a great time listening to her in 2008. What she or he does in their private life is not of much importance. RG seems to be following the same path.

Sarah's Greatest Hits

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Rahul Mehta » 18 Oct 2013 17:46

kapilrdave wrote:So people can draw their own conclusion. If anyone thinks that NM's first priority would be to root out corruption then he is wrong. He will try to reduce it through the use of technology and by devising policies that reduces the power of discrimination. But his first priority will be to get things done. He doesn't mind corruption as long as it is within limit - that's is what my understanding of him is. And he will protect babus also.


It is impossible for small time factory owners (those with 2-8-10 labor) to grow and compete against biggies insides India as well as international scale unless corruption reduces , court speed increased and "unfairness" in court reduces. eg The main reason why Alex became so strong in 300 BC was because Greece was strong and Greece was strong because courts in Greece were fast, least unfair and over corruption/nepotism in Greece was much lower than other places in the world. Today, China is better place to do business than India, because corruption in China is less, and it is just one installment a month --- no haggling , no khich-khick. and despite high labor wages and better environmental standards, today, the best place in world to do business is USA, and mainly because corruption in administration at rank and file is lower than corresponding section in world.

The corruption enables the biggies to squash all small employers. How? The large company owners like Mukeshbhai can bribe MPs to make laws that will make it impossible for small competitors to work without breaking laws. And then Mukeshbhai can bribe apex-IAS to unleash "rule of law" on the small guys.

It is not that "NM's first priority would (not) be to root out corruption" . No leader in world ever made it his priority. It is impossible for leader at top to crack down on corrupt middle and bottom. The middle and bottom can overthrow him in now time. The task of weeding out corruption can be done ONLY by small guys like Juries, voters (via RTR) and activists who can force leaders to print Jury System draft and RTR-draft in the Gazette.


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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 18 Oct 2013 18:32

Good topic - India and the World. He will excel. Bad audio, too much echo. Hopefully there is something later without this problem. Lots of apalause and cheers.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Rahul M » 18 Oct 2013 18:46

KJoishy wrote:Pappu Gandhi = Sarah Palin :D


as I have always maintained, RG is India's answer to GWBush.

oh, I thought sarah palin's greatest hit was 'who's nailin pailin' a/c to survey done by a group of canadian journalists ? :P

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 18 Oct 2013 18:46

SwamyG wrote:Good topic - India and the World. He will excel. Bad audio, too much echo. Hopefully there is something later without this problem. Lots of apalause and cheers.


Attach your earphone properly. I have no such problem in above link.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 18 Oct 2013 18:47

"Foreign policies are set by commercial interests".

Watching it on laptop no earphones.

MMS has no respect even in gatherings at Universities. People laugh heartily at MMS jokes. Shows the public perception.

Did Modi joke about tamilians sending PC to center? Or was it something else, I missed part of it.

Beautiful switch between English and Hindi.
Last edited by SwamyG on 18 Oct 2013 18:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 18 Oct 2013 18:49

Is he going to continue with Vajpayee's foreign policy?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sagrawal » 18 Oct 2013 18:55

SwamyG wrote:Good topic - India and the World. He will excel. Bad audio, too much echo. Hopefully there is something later without this problem. Lots of apalause and cheers.


I am hearing using only through one of the earphone and it works fine. If I use both, there is bad echo.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 18 Oct 2013 18:55

Sushupti wrote:Is he going to continue with Vajpayee's foreign policy?

Based on the topic, I think he has to talk at the Center level. And ABV was at the helm, so he will sing laurels of BJP and ABV. He is using the topic to show how BJP did better than INC.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 18 Oct 2013 18:56

"foreign minister reading the speech of another country" :-)

More about China than Pakistan in the speech.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 18 Oct 2013 18:58

Sagrawal wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Good topic - India and the World. He will excel. Bad audio, too much echo. Hopefully there is something later without this problem. Lots of apalause and cheers.


I am hearing using only through one of the earphone and it works fine. If I use both, there is bad echo.


Use slow rate audio connection.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 18 Oct 2013 18:58

"kaash aise log wahi rah jaye" on foreign minister's statement regarding Beijing. :rotfl: people rolling in laughter.

"not foreign policy but mockery"

"India is just not Dilli".

"Foreign policy ...driven by not people sitting in Dilli".

"...states have to be encouraged in partnering with foreign countries"

He is urging local initiatives, local/regional culture/language as means to strike foreign relations. Goa with Portugal. Pondicherry with France.

He is urging 30 States to take care of 30 countries. Adopting a country :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

"Sab kooch Dilli mein hota hain".

"People to people natha" citing tamilians in Malaysia, Biharis in Maurituis, Gujuratis in Africa, Russia...
Last edited by SwamyG on 18 Oct 2013 19:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 18 Oct 2013 19:04

Was talking to Mom who was interested in the Ind vs Aus match tomorrow.... I told her straight "Raypu simhGarjana!"

She was like "What? What happened now?" I said "UP lo modalu... Modi di UP yaatra modalitondi..." Andshe was like... Oh-o. Bavundi. speech live telecast untundaa.... :)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby manju » 18 Oct 2013 19:11

He knows how to weave a story. With one example about Gujarat and Astakhan (sp?), a state in Russia he was able to say
- Indians have influence there
- their language is influenced by India/Sanskrit
- He was able to indirectly talk about his chai wala days (never said it directly)...
- How indian states can influence foreign policy
....

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vishvak » 18 Oct 2013 19:13

I am a little worried about states directly dealing with foreign countries- would work in ideal situation only.

Instead we should separate state level and foreign level trade.

For example all trade to the west must go through a separate Export Zone - exclusive for trade only with no interaction. However without changing anything means local routes to export zones should be standardized- marine routes, railways so on to improve capabilities locally till foreign trade can be done by our own vessels.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby harbans » 18 Oct 2013 19:46

The state adopting a country idea has merit. It will boost economic activity and interdependence. Yet one has to see States don;t start adopting Saudi Barbaria type countries. A lot of money can flow in that may be in exchange of inimical interests. The center can pitch in or adopt a watchful approach. Little caution advised on that front. Like for example, Saudi says we'll put in 5 B USD worth of investment in XYZ state, but allow us to open 4 major Mosques and 5 Islamic universities on our own money. Must watch out for those kind of deals. But if one is aware of potential problems that can crop up in such scenarios, one can devise ways to address negatives.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vishvak » 18 Oct 2013 20:04

Instead of making standards - Supreme Court or RBI model- the center is too busy playing politics. Center is not able to deal with hawala for example. So these should be part of strategy that can't be touched even when center is compromised.

If I am not mistaken then SEEPZ is extended security by central Industrial security force.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Singha » 18 Oct 2013 20:06

http://www.firstpost.com/india/unnao-go ... 80321.html

congis are digging for 1000tons of rajput gold based on a sadhu's dream. this will be a windfall to distribute among their vote banks if they find it. being UP, the SP will also want their 50% cut to distribute among the peerzadas and mureeds.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 18 Oct 2013 20:14

^^ For what its worth, Modi has pooh-poohed the GoI's haste in digging the place up...

Here's shashi shekar in niti on NM's chennai speech.

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/10/18/n ... 47714.html

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby fanne » 18 Oct 2013 20:17

I dont like digging and treasure hunt. I dont appreciate the Sadhu if this turns out to be true, it like giving Md. Ghajni the address of Somnath!!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vishvak » 18 Oct 2013 20:19

The focus should have been on Raja Rambax whose heroic fight against world power was extraordinary. Wealth actually belongs to ASI.

Coming to business interests, the 2G scam comes to mind. The second auction went smoothly and there is no corruption charges no?

If the government can't offer auction route then that is the problem, not industrialists.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby saumitra_j » 18 Oct 2013 20:28

Cross posting from the State Elections Thread:

Folks,

BJP has setup a website for people to post suggestions on the manifesto. Request you all to please post your ideas. The site can be found at here
regards,

Saumitra

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krishnan » 18 Oct 2013 20:33

my idea

Eyes for all blind people, eye donation must be encouraged so that more people can see this beautiful world, its so sad to see blind people selling stuff in trains, some of them even depend on the customer to known how much they have given, as they cant distinguish between notes, no govt even seems to care about these poor souls

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Karan M » 18 Oct 2013 20:33

Singha wrote:http://www.firstpost.com/india/unnao-gold-rush-asis-reputation-hangs-by-a-sadhus-dream-1180321.html

congis are digging for 1000tons of rajput gold based on a sadhu's dream. this will be a windfall to distribute among their vote banks if they find it. being UP, the SP will also want their 50% cut to distribute among the peerzadas and mureeds.


What are the chances of there actually being gold as versus a faker getting some free publicity.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Rahul Mehta » 18 Oct 2013 20:35

Folks,

BJP has setup a website for people to post suggestions on the manifesto. Request you all to please post your ideas. The site can be found at here
regards,


Dear All,

Pls dont waste time in giving suggestions to ANY party, be Congress or BJP or AAP on what changes in laws we need in India. Instead, pls focus on convincing voters and activists what laws India needs. And then use voters and activists to force leaders across parties. That will be far more productive,

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 18 Oct 2013 20:43

Regarding state adopting countries, Modi did not use the word "adopt". I used that word, hence I did not place it as a quote. The essence was state partnering. Just wanted to clarify, don't want Modi to get grief because my choice of words :-)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sushupti » 18 Oct 2013 20:46

Image

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Suraj » 18 Oct 2013 20:57

Modi's state partnering other countries is probably inspired by PRC's efforts to have its cities aggressively enter into sister city agreements with others. Plug in the name of any midsize PRC city into wiki and you should see a bunch of sister cities. E.g.

Zhengzhou is twinned with:
South Korea Jinju, South Gyeongsang, South Korea[19]
Japan Saitama City, Japan
United States Richmond, Virginia, United States
Russia Samara, Russia
Germany Schwerin, Germany
Bulgaria Shumen, Bulgaria
Romania Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Jordan Irbid, Jordan
Brazil Joinville, Brazil
Brazil Campo Grande, Brazil
Namibia Mariental, Namibia
Italy Naples, Italy
Belgium Namur, Belgium
Hungary Gödöllő, Hungary

It was part of their opening up and connecting with the world again. It also serves as a way to encourage inward investment. States aggressively courting investment from other countries and competing with each other in this regard is a good thing. It avoids the central bottleneck of New Delhi, but on the other hand it requires a federalist center willing to let states have this much autonomy. This would require state level autonomy when it comes to clearing investment as well as environmental clearance, instead of everything needing the stamp of New Delhi.

Under a Congress regime this would certainly not happen, but BJP has been historically pro-devolution of power to state level and Modi would probably encourage this, since the whole Vibrant Gujarat policy is exactly this idea being implemented by his own state. Having states invest and push their own 'Vibrant XYZ' and aggressively court investment would be an extraordinary change from the current top-down 'Dilli, mujhe paise dijiey pliss!' approach now. It goes without saying that this would be extremely beneficial to jumpstarting economic growth.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vishvak » 18 Oct 2013 21:02

Nice to have NRIs mentioned here. I have heard of an ex-IITian who set up production for medical instruments in USA. Imagine that! Such huge compassionate and humane activity by Indians. Indeed there is potential right there.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ramana » 18 Oct 2013 21:08

Would an ex RECian and ex IITian working on similar enterprise qualify!!!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ramana » 18 Oct 2013 21:10

Suraj,
Even US cities have similar sister city schemes.

However Modi's idea is much bigger to allow economic growth and not cultural ties. I guess the PRC is also same idea.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby chaanakya » 18 Oct 2013 21:13

Congis are reduced to digging gold and already three or more similar claims have surfaced. Having looted the country for 9 years , in tenth year they are made to dig for themselves based on dreams . On the other hand Maharashtra , ruled by Congi+NCP combine has passed a law against superstition. And SP Chief goon has rushed to lay his claim on the prospective gold.

Even if we find gold, it is ASI job to capture the history of India , its past glory and deliberately Congis have not conducted systematically the excavation of significant historical sites and one can find many treasures , artifacts but not necessarily based on heresy or conjecture or dreams but on scientific investigation of India's rich past. Sad that they are making a mockery of all that.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ramana » 18 Oct 2013 21:16

chaanakya resisted posting this but during Emergency Indiria Gandhi was also digging for gold in Jaipur fort and found nothing. It was to spite Gyatari Devi who was in the Opposition.

So Baau following in Saas footsteps of folly.


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