Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Ashok Sarraff · Post by **Ashok Sarraff** » 09 Dec 2013 23:40

My friends who specialize in research areas on "Civil Society" and "Emancipation" are great supporters of AAP, some even took leave from unis to help the AAP "movement." At a personal level, they are very indic-e.g., play tabla, sing shastriya sangeet, and do all sorts of pujas regularly.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Dec 2013 23:42

archan wrote:
Singha wrote: rabbits, squirrels and other gentle creatures were rounded up and roasted on open flames. the forest fell into sickness and the dark miasma of The Necromancer hangs over it now.

The state of India under UPA!!!!
Why the eek?

disha · Post by **disha** » 09 Dec 2013 23:43

And more on Ashoka Fellow'ship':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka:_In ... the_Public

Ashoka was founded in 1981 by Bill Drayton, who has been called "the godfather of social entrepreneurship" by David Gergen.[6] Ashoka began with an annual budget of $50,000 and elected its first Fellow in India in 1981. During its first decade, Ashoka focused exclusively on finding and investing in leading social entrepreneurs in Latin America, Africa, Asia, and Central Europe. During the 1990s, Ashoka expanded its services beyond directly supporting fellows. Today, Ashoka has an annual revenue of nearly $30 million[7] and has expanded into North America, Western Europe, East Asia, and the Middle East.

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 09 Dec 2013 23:52

Ashok Sarraff wrote:My friends who specialize in research areas on "Civil Society" and "Emancipation" are great supporters of AAP, some even took leave from unis to help the AAP "movement." At a personal level, they are very indic-e.g., play tabla, sing shastriya sangeet, and do all sorts of pujas regularly.

Get ready to rub their noses in the cold, hard facts. (1) Why isn't Kejriwal jumping up to the task of forming the govt. in Delhi? (2) What does Kejriwal want - to align with the congis, or to have reelections? (3) Come reelections, and even if Kejriwal becomes CM with a clear mandate, exactly how does he propose to reduce electricity bills by 50%, provide 700 litres of water, and to fulfill all the rest of his la-la land promises?

Reality checks coming up for the euphoric AAP supporters.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Dec 2013 23:57

gakakkad wrote:
Suraj wrote: India lost a great political alternative when Rajaji's Swatantra Party was strangled and later dissolved into the anti-Congress alliance of the mid 70s. It would great if BJP can completely take over the economic framework that party espoused.

the party was ahead of its times..The difficulties faced by it are imaginable. they won 44 seats in Lok sabha once..but were viewed as a party of wealthy industrialists,zamindars and royalty...the general public discourse was against these. there was not a single hindi movie in those days in which the rich industrialist as a protagonist...but scores of movies in which they were portrayed as villains...and the protagonist in these movies were often trade union leaders.

in those days a pro-business party would have found it difficult to gain too many seats.

one of the reason why Modi is likely to succeed this time is that the present situation allows him to succeed...

The Swatantra Party got creamed in the 1971 elections. And they did not help in dispelling the popular image. And in fact reinforced it. Piloo Mody sued to show up wearing buttons" I am a CIA Agent".

It got merged with Charan Singh's Bharatiya Kranti Dal (BKD) in 1974.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2013 00:01

Arjun wrote:The emergence of AAP is a very positive development for the long-term, but maybe not for the short-term for India.

The positive would be if it can replace the Congress as the leftist alternative in Indian politics. We would then land up with a non-dynastic, more indigenous and more idealistic version of the Congress - which is definitely all to the good !

In the short-term though - for India's immediate development, it is critical that India swing to the right both from an economic and social standpoint. The UPA government over the last 10 years had taken the country too far to the left on these matters, directly affecting the country's development and future. This needs to be rectified - and the AAP obviously cannot deliver on the immediate swing to the right that the country needs.

It would be good if Modi and Kejriwal come to an understanding that Congress-Mukt Bharat is what the country desperately needs today. Kejriwal should concentrate on Delhi alone and back the BJP in its Congress-Mukt Bharat scheme in the rest of India, in 2014. In return, once Modi is in power - he should give support to the AAP to emerge as the pan-India leftist alternative post the decimation of Congress.

If Kejriwal agrees to this - I think there is scope for optimizing India's development both from a short-term and long-term perspective.

I tend to think the above is not correct. There are many reports that AAP was created by SD and her son to divert the anger against Congress and it seems to have consumed them itself! In the end AAP is a receptacle for middle class anti-Congress anger to ensure it didn't go to BJP.

Had there been no AAP most likely the folks would swallow their anger and still vote for Congress.

Congress will be Congress with or without DIEnasty for they represent the colonial brown East India Company mind..

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2013 00:12

Arjun, they support breaking up India, call the army villain and are even softer on terror than congress and that's saying something !
INC has basically been replaced by the naxals under mufti, don't quite see how that is good for India.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Dec 2013 00:16

Rahul M wrote:Arjun, they support breaking up India, call the army villain and are even softer on terror than congress and that's saying something !
INC has basically been replaced by the naxals under mufti, don't quite see how that is good for India.

Exactly.

If we fall for AAP then we lost whatever we have learnt over last two decades of associating with BRF.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 10 Dec 2013 00:17

ramana wrote:
Arjun wrote:The emergence of AAP is a very positive development for the long-term, but maybe not for the short-term for India.

The positive would be if it can replace the Congress as the leftist alternative in Indian politics. We would then land up with a non-dynastic, more indigenous and more idealistic version of the Congress - which is definitely all to the good !

In the short-term though - for India's immediate development, it is critical that India swing to the right both from an economic and social standpoint. The UPA government over the last 10 years had taken the country too far to the left on these matters, directly affecting the country's development and future. This needs to be rectified - and the AAP obviously cannot deliver on the immediate swing to the right that the country needs.

It would be good if Modi and Kejriwal come to an understanding that Congress-Mukt Bharat is what the country desperately needs today. Kejriwal should concentrate on Delhi alone and back the BJP in its Congress-Mukt Bharat scheme in the rest of India, in 2014. In return, once Modi is in power - he should give support to the AAP to emerge as the pan-India leftist alternative post the decimation of Congress.

If Kejriwal agrees to this - I think there is scope for optimizing India's development both from a short-term and long-term perspective.

I tend to think the above in not correct. There are many reports that AAP was created by SD and her son to divert th anger against Congress and it seems to have consumed them itself! In the end AAP is a recpetacle for middle class anti-Congress anger to ensure it didnt go to BJP.

Had there been no AAP most likely the folks would swallow their anger and still vote for Congress.

Congress will be Congress with or without DIEnasty for they represent the colonial brown East India Company mind..

Tell me why the hell we need a leftist alternative to begin with. We need to come up with our own labels looking out our own situation and history. If the history of leftism worldwide is anything to go by, heck why dont we just help create an Islamic alternative.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Dec 2013 00:19

Disha:
If that is the case - of vision coming from elsewhere; and the network working for causes close to a foundation or trust; can't one make similar case for Overseas Friends of BJP as well? There could be infiltration or people with different ideologies in that who can influence Modi and BJP. Scholars like Rajiv Malhotra are already influencing the people and politics of India. Kejriwal has gone postal and has in turn accused BJP and Congress of getting foreign funds; and has asked for transparency.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Dec 2013 01:13

i support transparency anywhere in the public space. without that, the very future fabric even modi is trying to bring up shall not survive. i would have by now, conquered aap in a jiffy.. pass me that phone line.

where is modi? this aap can't talk too much. get him enrolled into a life-saving plan.

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Dec 2013 02:44

SwamyG wrote:Disha:
If that is the case - of vision coming from elsewhere; and the network working for causes close to a foundation or trust; can't one make similar case for Overseas Friends of BJP as well? There could be infiltration or people with different ideologies in that who can influence Modi and BJP. Scholars like Rajiv Malhotra are already influencing the people and politics of India. Kejriwal has gone postal and has in turn accused BJP and Congress of getting foreign funds; and has asked for transparency.

SwamyG, you are comparing Watermelons (FF/HIVOS/etc) with Grapes (OFBJP)., please re-read - the goal of Ford Foundation is to bring gyan to natives (" to strengthen democratic values, reduce poverty and injustice, promote international cooperation and advance human achievement ..." ) while OFBJP whatever its ostensible objectives, is very clear that it is tied to a political party is a "Political Action Committee" and hence has broad based objectives (like promoting "correct" understanding of India in US) for a specific purpose - to become the "input" (finance, ideas, policy points) to BJP (and is quite clear about it)

So yes, you are comparing Water Melons and Grapes. There is no comparison.

Now a counter-question, why do not you nominate a "right leaning" person (BJP/RSS/Gujarat vasi/Rajasthan vasi/MP vasi/36grh vasi who is not a xtian) and has done excellent work in promoting say check dams (for eg. in Guj) for say Ashoka Fellow?

Why the guy mentioned in this URL -> http://west.gian.org/innovationdetails. ... category=9 is not even a FF or HIVOS awardee (or even mentioned) but say why this guy who writes policy papers http://www.cseindia.org/p gets it? Again I am not trying to promote one over the other and IMHO both are doing excellent work,

but why

Arvind Kejriwal makes to the list of top global thinkers http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 60955.aspx

but why not

Raman Singh (excellent FSB over current PDS)
Shivraj Singh Chauhan (24x7 electricity in villages)
Vasundhara Raje (weaves a complex caste coalition to come back as a CM)
Dr. Harshvardhan (Polio eradication)
Narendra Modi (Chaiwalla)

So SwamyG, when you start comparing Water Melons to Grapes (inspite of so many threads and discussion)., I get astonished at the grip of "secular english educated elitism"!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Dec 2013 02:53

Rahul M wrote:no, that line is not true. what the army does is conduct COIN against an extremely violent terror network supported by an increasingly talibanised populace.
they operate under highly restrictive ROE's and still manage to execute their jobs well without harming the civilians in 99% of the cases. if you want to argue on this plz take it to a relevant thread.

two, AAP/prashant bushan also supports the UN plebiscite demand, which is entirely in pakistan's favour because of the forced demographic changes conducted by them after 1948.

so in effect, for all your supposed pro-modi and army family background, you are supporting pakistan's stand on kashmir over India's.
just because you like kejriwal.

moving on.......

sir, you have drunk the kool-aid of white knight kejriwal, not BRF.
the cult is surely the people who believe in
> electricity @ 50% rates
> free 700 litres of water for everyone
> prices of essential communities would be set by the common people
> delhi assembly would be held at ramlila maidan

and just FYI, if you think AAP is the herald of some brand new revolution, it has happened before. Indian voters have a first time soft spot for people who break away from mainstream and position themselves as holier than thou. doesn't mean much in the long run.
viz.
CPIM from CPI
NTR's TDP
Indira gandhi's cong(I)
TMC from cong in WB

excellent post. am going to plagiarize liberally. :p

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 10 Dec 2013 03:05

Rahul M wrote: > electricity @ 50% rates
> free 700 litres of water for everyone
> prices of essential communities would be set by the common people
> delhi assembly would be held at ramlila maidan

Rahul-ji, even these promises are not new. Particularly wrt the prices and the Assembly. This is pure early Commie stuff, copy pasted from the manifestos of Luxembourg and Liebknecht, when they and their Spartacist movement were trying to take over Germany (Workers' Councils, Open Assemblies, prices fixed by public committees, etc). AAP is seeming to me, to be more and more, the original Communist party of the early 1900s. The only problem is that they did not survive contact with power. I suspect neither will Kejriwal.

and just FYI, if you think AAP is the herald of some brand new revolution, it has happened before. Indian voters have a first time soft spot for people who break away from mainstream and position themselves as holier than thou. doesn't mean much in the long run.
viz.
CPIM from CPI
NTR's TDP
Indira gandhi's cong(I)
TMC from cong in WB

+1. What is even more, AAP is indulging in pure politics of opposition. Politics of opposition comes easily to him - he simply sits and carps and cavils at everything. Politics of governance are an altogether matter. Arvind Kejriwal is the latter day incarnation of that oddball Madhu Limaye, magnified by the media, with plenty of SM noise for him. What makes him stand out is that he is unique among current day politicians with such hare brained ideas, while Madhu Limaye was sinning in good company (Communists were a dime a dozen in the 70s).

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 10 Dec 2013 03:30

Arvind Kejriwal is the Indian version of Barrack Obama. A guy who came out of left field and scored better each time he came to bat (Illinois state senator 1997 to US President 2008). The similarities are there for everyone to see. Both have impeccable acedemic credentials and have a sense of purpose or a strong mission statement. They are able to attract the young to their message (even if some of these are pipe dreams). In power, one has been mostly ineffective in governence but very successful in raising government spending, the other is still WIP.

Arvind Kejriwal should not to be taken lightly but also one need not go overboard and be paralyzed by fear. Keep him on his toes and demand the fulfillment of promises made. Let us see if there is something more than vaporware. Indian domestic politics is not a cheap game and eventually the money bags will be required to run the party. At that time, the true character of AAP and A.K. will be truly tested.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Dec 2013 03:42

however.. the similarities ends there.. Obama had 11 years of legislative career as a senator.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2013 03:51

SaiK wrote:however.. the similarities ends there.. Obama had 11 years of legislative career as a senator.

Can you point to the outcome of those 11 years? Anything concrete?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Dec 2013 04:04

me no know about his other activities, but onlee one thing strikes my mind.. his WMD non-proli and conventional weapons (stockpile reduction) legislation.

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 10 Dec 2013 04:24

RoyG wrote:Tell me why the hell we need a leftist alternative to begin with. We need to come up with our own labels looking out our own situation and history. If the history of leftism worldwide is anything to go by, heck why dont we just help create an Islamic alternative.

A lot of people ask me: is it not perfectly acceptable for India in (say) 2100 to be a high-income,'developed' country that is 50% Cross and 50% Moon (or 100% one of the above). Why not, as long as the country is affluent and well-fed?

A number of the urban, "educated" BJP "supporters" here and on other online forums are simply on the BJP bandwagon because of its promises of development for all and clean government. That is all very fine and welcome in terms of getting the party elected, but such people are not believers in the core party ideology which differentiates it from the rest.

When the issue of cultural nationalism appears, these people suddenly get nasty since they crave legitimacy from a non-Indian standpoint. There are many who cavil about NGOs getting foreign money fo fuel Cross and Moon activities. But ask these same people to pull out their checkbook for the party, or devote their time to working for/tangibly supporting the party - and I find they usually disappear very quickly.

The 2014 General Election is important because it is a key step towards integrating economic well-being and cultural nationalism (which necessarily includes expelling both anti-national and anti-cultural forces). Economic development alone will not help fight off the onslaught of alien cultural forces. Nor is it about just cutting off the money supply to Cross and Moon NGOs. The mindset and value system imbibed by Indians needs to be rebuilt.

Mr. Modi is not an urban, "English"-educated, superficially suave, culturally disconnected technocrat. Neither is he simply a rags-to-fame person who got to his position just by "working hard". The rise of Shriman Modi is very much rooted in values of cultural nationalism, which is the core ideology of the party. There are many others in the party who are equally rooted in this concept, but Mr. Modi is special because he is able to combine it with many other characteristics of a leader.

Best Wishes,
KL Dubey

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 10 Dec 2013 04:26

11 years as senator? Most of it was illinois state. In US senate it was only 2 years before he started presidential campaign. I asked ramana ji's question to many people before. No answer so far.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2013 04:29

guys, you are making wrong comparisons. kejri is what HE claims he is, a gareebon ki maseeha aka a sophisticated IIT version of lalu prasad yadav.
#IITLalu

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 10 Dec 2013 04:40

Sagar G wrote:CRamS, there is also a possibility that US is being setup by Modi. He wants them to think that their visa/acceptance means much to him and he would be privileged to have that, they totally buy this and offer him the visa and then he flatly refuses to visit US thus delivering a mighty jhaapad to US from which they will keep smarting from.

I don't think Mr Modi has time to waste in playing such games. He has already said he is not bothered about getting US visa, rather he wants there to be long lines of US people eager to apply for Indian visa.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 10 Dec 2013 04:44

Narendra Modi beats Sachin Tendulkar, Mars Mission on Facebook

BJP's Prime Ministerial candidate Narendra Modi is the most talked about person on Facebook in India beating likes of cricketing legend Sachin Tendulkar and Apple iconic device iPhone 5s, the US-based social networking site said on Monday.

According to the social networking giant's top Indian trends of 2013, RBI Governor Raghuram Rajan and India's Mars mission also failed to beat the Gujarat Chief Minister, who was the most mentioned person on Facebook this year

Hmmm. But kejri will try to beat NM here next yr, who knows...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 10 Dec 2013 04:47

Published on Dec 10, 2013
By Radhika Ramaseshan
AAP shadow on Modi’s Yeddy test

Former Karnataka chief minister B.S. Yeddyurappa’s return to the BJP has hit a roadblock for an entirely unexpected reason — the Aam Aadmi Party’s success in Delhi.

The BJP, which was set to welcome its prodigal Karnataka son home after the Assembly elections, has reportedly hung up for a while because it fears the “corruption haze” over Yeddyurappa would make him the object of a campaign by AAP leader Arvind Kejriwal before next year’s Lok Sabha elections.

“Like it or not, Kejriwal is steered by a moral compass that the other parties can’t ignore,” a source said.

L.K. Advani, who was dead against Yeddyurappa’s homecoming, has apparently passed on the word that the Karnataka leader is “bad news” for the party.

Yeddyurappa, who led the BJP to its first government in the south, was forced out in 2011 after being indicted in an alleged scam.

Yeddyurappa’s return had transformed into a test of sorts of the clout Narendra Modi wields in the BJP vis-à-vis Advani and his group. Modi, sources said, had “no problem” with Yeddyurappa and saw “merit” in the electoral “dividend” he could bring in Karnataka through his caste appeal to a powerful community.

The BJP won 18 of the 28 seats in Karnataka in the last Lok Sabha polls. It has reconciled itself to a loss of most of them without Yeddyurappa but is still to get a fix on the gains it can make if he comes back.

The BJP’s Karnataka MPs have reportedly told party president Rajnath Singh that if they were to touch double figures, Yeddyurappa’s return was a must. These MPs include Ananth Kumar who had allegedly instigated Advani to push Yeddyurappa out of the BJP.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Dec 2013 04:55

LKA being obdurate again..

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 10 Dec 2013 05:06

In that entire article, there is not a single identified source for any of the crap dished out by radhika woman. Why lend credence to attempts at FUD after a glorious win Karan ji?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Dec 2013 05:51

ramana wrote:Can you point to the outcome of those 11 years? Anything concrete?

Yes, he opposed getting India from under NSG thumb.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Dec 2013 05:57

Abhijit wrote:In that entire article, there is not a single identified source for any of the crap dished out by radhika woman. Why lend credence to attempts at FUD after a glorious win Karan ji?

Just going by past record and the fact that there were reports yeddy was to be back in BJP a couple of days back....and now everything is silent.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Dec 2013 05:58

BijuShet wrote:Arvind Kejriwal is the Indian version of Barrack Obama.
...
Arvind Kejriwal should not to be taken lightly but also one need not go overboard and be paralyzed by fear.

The voter characteristics are totally different in US and India.

US has very high literacy rate (close 100%) and > 95% live in metropolises/Urban conglomerates. In India if I say the split is 30% to 70% I would not be too far. Literacy is 65% (?). 70% is a stretch. Media and internet penetration, broadband access etc. all count to run the kind of a campaign POTUS had run. Also, primaries are important as well as lot more freedom - even federal and state employees can be registered members of any of the parties (for primary voting purposes) and can openly support whomever they want. While there are problems with elections in US, India has ways to go. We will get there - it is a matter of time. I am sure of it (modulo black swan events).

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Dec 2013 07:16

Disha: So what is wrong in promoting the values you mention? Unless the money is misused, used to incite internal security threat/chaos, threat to pluralism or undermine the country, how are you going to challenge ? How is any one going to answer Kejriwal when he accuses BJP and Congress of getting foreign money?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 10 Dec 2013 07:18

Modi's Mission 272: rallies in Dehradun, Varanasi, Ludhiana, Mumbai, Lucknow, Ranchi

New Delhi: The Modi juggernaut has not halted. BJP's prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi will be addressing a chain of rallies this month in places as diverse as Dehradun, Varanasi, Ludhiana, Mumbai, Lucknow and Ranchi.

Modi will first address a rally on December 15 at Parade Ground, Dehradun. Already preparations are going on for the rally.

The next rally is slated on December 20 in Varanasi, for which security arrangements are being made.

The BJP prime ministerial candidate will address a "fateh rally" (victory rally) in Jagraon near Ludhiana on December 21 with the ruling Akali Dal-BJP combine pooling its resources.

The next day on December 22, Sunday, Mumbaikars will attend the "Maha Garjana Rally".

Another rally is scheduled for December 25 on Christmas in Ramabai Park, Lucknow.

The last Modi rally of this year will be held in Ranchi on December 29.

The juggernaut rolls on... Personally, moi was hoping to see more action on the Odisha-TN-KL-Asom front. And whatever happened to the planned Rajamundhry rally in AP? Just curious only...

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Dec 2013 07:34

SwamyG wrote:Disha: So what is wrong in promoting the values you mention?

c'mon saar.. when khan says x values, do you believe it is x values or y values packaged as x, in favour of khanland?

Unless the money is misused, used to incite internal security threat/chaos, threat to pluralism or undermine the country, how are you going to challenge ?

that is exactly what this is.. creating color revolutions and meddling in other countries electoral process under guise of sponsoring democracy etc.

How is any one going to answer Kejriwal when he accuses BJP and Congress of getting foreign money?

donations from state affiliated agencies should be a strict no.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Dec 2013 07:35

Hari Seldon wrote:Modi's Mission 272: rallies in Dehradun, Varanasi, Ludhiana, Mumbai, Lucknow, Ranchi

New Delhi: The Modi juggernaut has not halted. BJP's prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi will be addressing a chain of rallies this month in places as diverse as Dehradun, Varanasi, Ludhiana, Mumbai, Lucknow and Ranchi.

Modi will first address a rally on December 15 at Parade Ground, Dehradun. Already preparations are going on for the rally.

The next rally is slated on December 20 in Varanasi, for which security arrangements are being made.

The BJP prime ministerial candidate will address a "fateh rally" (victory rally) in Jagraon near Ludhiana on December 21 with the ruling Akali Dal-BJP combine pooling its resources.

The next day on December 22, Sunday, Mumbaikars will attend the "Maha Garjana Rally".

Another rally is scheduled for December 25 on Christmas in Ramabai Park, Lucknow.

The last Modi rally of this year will be held in Ranchi on December 29.
The juggernaut rolls on... Personally, moi was hoping to see more action on the Odisha-TN-KL-Asom front. And whatever happened to the planned Rajamundhry rally in AP? Just curious only...

wow onlee!!

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 10 Dec 2013 08:13

w.r.t yeddyurappa the news is surely fake...any article that quotes "sources" is a fake..

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 10 Dec 2013 08:45

Folks - what is holding up Yeddy's return is nothing to do with the BJP. What is holding it up is basically the reluctance of his own party to merge with the BJP. Most of those who left with Yeddy are those who were poached during operation Kamala, or those who joined during the party just before the 2008 Assembly elections. Of the six legislators who are in the KJP, three are from this background (Gurupadappa Nagamarpalli, Guru Patil, and B R Patil). I don't know much about Guru Patil, but Gurupadappa Nagamarpalli is one of the worst people in Karnataka politics (among other things, the charmer would be dead drunk by noon in his own office, not to mention he is corrupt as hell). He was poached from the Congress, and I guess, he wants to return to his roots. B R Patil was in the erstwhile JD, and then has been party hopping for a long time, and crossed over to Yeddy because the felt he was not getting enough importance in the Congress. Giving support to those opposed to the merger with the BJP is the one time greatest supporter of Yeddy, Shobha Karandlaje. They are all adamantly opposed to rejoining the BJP, because they see no future there. it remains to be seen how Yeddy will resolve this. Yeddy, given his inability to ensure the victory of a large number of his candidates, has been taking a lot of flak from his underlings, and is in no position to impose his will on the others. So - he is trying to convince the others to return to the BJP, but may have to end up defecting from his own party to rejoin the BJP (now that will be the height of irony). with the other two legislators U B Banakar, and V I Patil to the BJP.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/373 ... e-two.html

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 10 Dec 2013 08:46

Here is an update on the issue.

http://www.udayavanienglish.com/news/40 ... erger.html

There are talks that Sreeramulu will also return, but I sincerely hope that the BJP will not also entertain Sreeramulu (he is not only criminally corrupt, he is also exceptionally brutal in his ways).

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 10 Dec 2013 08:56

We are failing to see the message of the electorate. They are not voting for elite. MMS, CHIDU, THAROOR, RAG, SOG etc are beign shown the door. Voters are voting for mass leaders - simple, down to earth, son or daughter of the soil, not good in oxford english, approachable and humble. KHUJLIWAL is being turned into an elite by the media. He will soon meet the same fate as the elites i listed above.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 10 Dec 2013 09:10

Rahul M wrote:Arjun, they support breaking up India, call the army villain and are even softer on terror than congress and that's saying something !
INC has basically been replaced by the naxals under mufti, don't quite see how that is good for India.

Rahul, Ramana & others - you may have misinterpreted my earlier post as support for AAP. Nothing can be farther from the truth than that.

Personally, I would never touch the left with a bargepole - and it is Modi all the way for me. However, I am also convinced that India in general is highly susceptible to left-loony blather. There is a significant percentage of Indians that think with their hearts and not their heads, who are easy suckers for the left. Despite my personal dislike - I recognize that this percentage of left-leaning Indians is NEVER going to disappear. At best we can try and restrict this heart-over-head set to below 50% of the population OR try and split their votes among multiple parties while the right votes for a single one. You could say that I have a fairly low opinion about the bulk of the Indian populace and an convinced that rational argument will not get through to them.

So having set the context rather clearly - what I am suggesting is rather simple and tactical. Given that this leftist, heart-over head set of the population is not going to go away - is it more advantageous for us that they vote for Congress, or is it for AAP or would the best option would be votes split between Congress and AAP ?

What are the advantages of AAP over Congress that we are aware of - no dynasty, no corruption, AND very importantly they have openly refused to align with the Congress. The last is extremely important. Why? Because this stance is unlike the stance of any other 'secular' party which would definitely align with the Congress in a bid to defeat 'communal' forces.

So - best case scenario for us to manage the leftist, hear-over-head types is that their votes get split between Congress and AAP, just as happened in Delhi. This will allow the BJP to emerge as largest party. The assumption here is AAP will not align with the Congress, which may be justified since with all the history of AAP's emergence - if they do align with Congress their credibility will immediately sink like the stone.

Secondly - between AAP and Congress, who would be preferable ? Like I stated the advantege AAP has is of no dynasty and ostensibly no corruption. The disadvantages are the usual left-loony disadvantages...As regards Kashmir and Naxalism - I agree there are very serious charges against them. It may be that in the hurly burly of their first elections they allowed some anti-national elements like Prashant Bhushan to become more prominent - and hopefully Kejriwal will disavow these statements now that he is supposed to be more responsible. Kejriwal needs to address this asap and clarify to the nation their stance - and the BJP should force the issue with them.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Dec 2013 09:21

Elsewhere on the net the AAP is being referred to as allahu akbar party, go figure.

Something creepy about the whole jing bang lot.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Dec 2013 09:22

Karan M wrote:that is exactly what this is.. creating color revolutions and meddling in other countries electoral process under guise of sponsoring democracy etc.

Karan M, very perceptive.

SwamyG, you know what is dominating US airwaves for the last two days - Ukrain and Mandela. The first probably is some kind of color revolution or at least some meddling. The latter is a guilt trip and a sort of confession - intent is to show the world that all along they were for the emancipation of those brutally suppressed under the jackboot of colonial remnants who were powerful nevertheless.