Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 12 Dec 2013 11:19

The other day I was just thinking about this. Why do we continue to use British built buildings to host our Govt and Politicians.? This includes our Parliament, North and South Blocks, Rashtrapati Bhawan, Residences of MPs in Lutyen's zone.

These are all symbols of slavery.

To me the continued usage of such buildings for official purposes is extremely shameful and totally devoid of any Pride in Indian Civilization.

To reclaim Bharat a new capital should be formed which includes a new Parliament and 3 BHK flats for MPs/Senior officials.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Dec 2013 11:19

Dr. Raman Singh just took oath at the swearing in ceremony in Raipur and began his third term as CM.

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 12 Dec 2013 11:24

darshhan wrote:The other day I was just thinking about this. Why do we continue to use British built buildings to host our Govt and Politicians.? This includes our Parliament, North and South Blocks, Rashtrapati Bhawan, Residences of MPs in Lutyen's zone.

These are all symbols of slavery.

To me the continued usage of such buildings for official purposes is extremely shameful and totally devoid of any Pride in Indian Civilization.

To reclaim Bharat a new capital should be formed which includes a new Parliament and 3 BHK flats for MPs/Senior officials.

+1. Just as I thought too! Shift the capital and break the back of the colonial and sultanate hangovers, the power brokers and dilli-billis. Begin with a clean Indic slate.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 12 Dec 2013 11:26

^^Ideally, make 2-3 co-capitals. Let parliament sessions happen alternately once in Nagpur or Hyd and once in Delhi. Will prevent power brokerage getting monopolized at any one place. Also, supreme court should have benches in all 4 zones at least.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Dec 2013 11:29

there was a proposal in NDA era to build regular luxury highrise apts & rowhouses to house the MPs and ministers. makes it much cheaper to protect them as well vs the vast area of lutyens delhi.

the elites cleverly shot that one down using the shoulders of environmentalists and architectural conservationists who claimed it would alter the character and looks of lutyens area, etc etc .

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Dec 2013 11:33

Man, this article just makes me go what the....

Why do these folks need these elite watering holes, hain jee, at public expense??

http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/tXVQwGf ... table.html

Now I understand why the D4/left and let alone the MSM somewhat neutral types wouldn't/couldn't take cudgels at establishment beyond a point. They'd probably lose access to all such "small luxuries"..

Nice. Wonder how many more such gold cages are there.

Rahul M wrote:and 2 trainess share a room.

same in the IIMs i think. but there you have to pay. this LBSNAA whatever seems to be free.

and the other pics show the place infra - its clearly high end, nice sports facilities/tennis courts/medical etc and what not. its basically elite school type. nothing wrong with that per se, only that existing infra sucks (including healthcare). that too, should be prioritized.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 12 Dec 2013 11:34

Hari Seldon wrote:^^Ideally, make 2-3 co-capitals. Let parliament sessions happen alternately once in Nagpur or Hyd and once in Delhi. Will prevent power brokerage getting monopolized at any one place. Also, supreme court should have benches in all 4 zones at least.

Hari ji, I am not talking about co capitals. Make as many co capitals as you want to.

But the current set up in New Delhi should be dismantled completely. Even in Delhi, there are other areas such as Bawana where the new capital can be housed. If optimal planning is done, a totally new capital can be set up in less than 1000 acres of land anywhere in the country.

I would suggest the new location to be somewhere in MP/Chhattisgarh.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Dec 2013 11:39

Hari Seldon wrote:bhajpa will need both Delhi state and central gubmint in its hands before it can overturn some of these cosy elitemen clubs.... cancel 'em leases, take back the land and property, stop taxpayer funding pronto, open up accounts to public scrutiny etc.

ITIH, best thing is to simply open up membership to all and sundry. Club apne aap khatam ho jayega...

Its already a watering hole of the rich and phamous - chetan bhagat seriously??

“When he came to the Dining Hall last year, I asked him, ‘Are you (actor) Aamir Khan?’ After he nodded, I said, ‘I am Aslam Khan. I will show you your seat’,” says the senior catering supervisor. A few months after she lost the election in 1977, Khan served former prime minister Indira Gandhi an apricot-filled meringue which the chef had named in her honour. Khan says, “Madam asked me ‘Yeh kya hai? (What is this?)’ I said, ‘This is Gateau Indira. It is just like you—tough from the outside, soft from the inside.’ Madam started laughing.”

Did ma'am's opponents also get apricot desserts during the emergency?

The Dining Room staff is privy to the weaknesses of the powerful. Congress party member Janardhan Dwivedi enjoys sautéed broccoli and paneer tikka. L.K. Advani partakes of vegetable cutlet and kesar walla doodh. Union minister Anand Sharma has a passion for IIC’s palak paneer—so extreme that he sometimes orders it on the phone while on his way. Waiters say that novelist Chetan Bhagat—yes, he too is a member—is on a diet and has been advising everyone to say no to rice.

Words fail me..

Almost every IIC diner says yes to the honey and fig ice cream—the Dining Room’s most popular dessert.
Last year, disaster struck. The ice-cream machine broke down to the distress of many, including industrialist Deepak Khosla, who offered to send his own engineer for repairs. Khosla, who dines at least twice a week at the IIC, says: “I made a lot of noise and even jokingly asked (IIC director) Kavita Sharma what kind of centre is she running if she can’t give me my fig and honey.” The administration soon got a new machine.

So IIC Director runs a restaurant, basically..

There is no record of the late Dara Singh’s sentiments towards the aforementioned dessert but once, at the end of a seemingly satisfying meal at the Dining Hall, the waiter handed him a new suggestion book requesting him to write something. The wrestler-actor flipped through the empty pages and said in Punjabi, “Ethhe wich kuch likha hi nahin. (Nothing’s written in it).” After prolonged deliberation, he wrote: “Food is good. Service is ok. Thank you.”

Probably the only somewhat amusing quip. Probably because DS was a good man.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Dec 2013 11:51

Karan M wrote:

same in the IIMs i think. but there you have to pay. this LBSNAA whatever seems to be free.

Nothing is free. You pay at LBSNAA through your noses on peanuts as salary ( and borrow from you father ), be IIM or IIT graduate or Medical or CA professionals leaving high paid job prospects to slog through. Read English August and what eventually happens.

Abhibhushan · Post by **Abhibhushan** » 12 Dec 2013 11:57

Is the thread drifting somewhat?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Dec 2013 12:01

There is a lull before the storm.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 12 Dec 2013 12:05

Abhibhushan wrote:Is the thread drifting somewhat?

Not at all. If you look at the thread title it says " Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty : Contrasting Ideas of India ". The above discussion only highlights the damage done to India due to Cronyism and Patronage promoted by Dynasty.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Dec 2013 12:26

chaanakya wrote:Nothing is free. You pay at LBSNAA through your noses on peanuts as salary ( and borrow from you father ), be IIM or IIT graduate or Medical or CA professionals leaving high paid job prospects to slog through. Read English August and what eventually happens.

ah, didnt know that. english august...i remember having a copy someplace. bought it after watching the phamous chai scene (IAS collector explaining things to the newcomer rahul bose?)

Abhibhushan wrote:Is the thread drifting somewhat?

True, mea culpa... but it helped me understand the various ways our elite manage the trappings of power.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 12 Dec 2013 12:58

Currently I am touring Eastern India (Bihar/Jharkhand, Orissa and West Bengal). Some Political observations.

1. In Bihar Nitish Kumar is fast loosing popularity. Namo is continuosly gaining ground. If BJP can get its Candidate selection right, it would reap tremendous benefits. Nitish Kumar is slowly but surely loosing control over important issues such as Infrastructural development and Security.

2. Jharkhand is more complicated as of now. Currently it is anarchic situation over there. Rising crime and shutting down of industries dominate the issues. The impossibility of any meaningful Land acquisition precludes the development of new projects. Infrastructure is in shambles including Ranchi Jamshedpur road. BJP has discredited itself by allying with parties like JMM and propping up CMs like Arjun Munda. Additionally many sitting BJP MPs are not popular anymore including Mr. Yashwant Sinha (who will not be elected if not for Namo wave). However Narendra Modi is extremely popular (even in rural areas) and this might enable BJP to finally romp home. Wild card would be Babulal Marandi's JVM. Compared to other leaders he has a better image. Is gaining new volunteers at the cost of BJP and other parties. Incidentally he is a supporter of Namo(and Hostile to Rajnath Singh's machinations) and will support him after the elections.

3. Orissa is extremely simple case. Namo is once again extremely popular. Having said that I haven't met a single oriya till now who has said that he will not vote for Naveen Patnaik and his Party BJD. NP would definitely be the most popular CM of any state and that includes Namo himself. So Odisha is a clean sweep for NP and BJD.

4. Hatred for Congress is evident in all 3 states.

5. Will be visiting to Kolkata shortly. Update you soon.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 12 Dec 2013 13:31

Karan M wrote:Man, this article just makes me go what the....

Why do these folks need these elite watering holes, hain jee, at public expense??

http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/tXVQwGf ... table.html

Now I understand why the D4/left and let alone the MSM somewhat neutral types wouldn't/couldn't take cudgels at establishment beyond a point. They'd probably lose access to all such "small luxuries"..

Nice. Wonder how many more such gold cages are there.

same in the IIMs i think. but there you have to pay. this LBSNAA whatever seems to be free.

and the other pics show the place infra - its clearly high end, nice sports facilities/tennis courts/medical etc and what not. its basically elite school type. nothing wrong with that per se, only that existing infra sucks (including healthcare). that too, should be prioritized.

No. At least not in IIM Bangalore. For both years we had single room (and new blocks are much better than LBSNAA, going by the pics that is).

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Dec 2013 13:56

Karan M wrote:
Rahul M wrote:and 2 trainess share a room.
same in the IIMs i think. but there you have to pay. this LBSNAA whatever seems to be free.

and the other pics show the place infra - its clearly high end, nice sports facilities/tennis courts/medical etc and what not. its basically elite school type. nothing wrong with that per se, only that existing infra sucks (including healthcare). that too, should be prioritized.

nope, LBSNAA charges a fee and it's quite high compared to other govt facilities.
if you really want to see highly subsidized food/pretty good acco' etc look to the various govt dept guest houses. you get 3-5 star quality acco for Rs15/night or thereabouts.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Dec 2013 14:08

darshhan wrote:The other day I was just thinking about this. Why do we continue to use British built buildings to host our Govt and Politicians.? This includes our Parliament, North and South Blocks, Rashtrapati Bhawan, Residences of MPs in Lutyen's zone.

These are all symbols of slavery.

To me the continued usage of such buildings for official purposes is extremely shameful and totally devoid of any Pride in Indian Civilization.

To reclaim Bharat a new capital should be formed which includes a new Parliament and 3 BHK flats for MPs/Senior officials.

those buildings were made with Indian money by Indian workmen.

what do you propose to do about those ? allow immensely expensive and useful buildings go to waste to fulfil some misguided sense of nationalism ?

far from being shameful those buildings represent our trimuph over the colonials.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 12 Dec 2013 14:24

gakakkad wrote:methinks there should be a dhaaga for these centres.. so that if a decent government gets elected,people can petition for probing into finances that go into it.The photo poeted by Karan M is a residential facility of LBSIAA musoorie ..why is it that trainee civil servants get such swanky "hostels" while trainee docs and engineers,even in prestigious IIT/AIIMS get dirty,smelly non air-conditioned hostels without attached toilets even?

Actually, IHC is good model to develop such places; the problem comes when powers that be corner the benefits.

Coming to facility in LBSIAA - well, this a training institution for service (versus a teaching institution) and such training institutions across the board have similar facilities. Though, it does not mean that facilities for student doctors and engineers should be not good. But I doubt they'll reach the level of facilities of training institutions.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 12 Dec 2013 14:35

Karan M wrote:<SNIP> and the other pics show the place infra - its clearly high end, nice sports facilities/tennis courts/medical etc and what not. its basically elite school type. nothing wrong with that per se, only that existing infra sucks (including healthcare). that too, should be prioritized.

Our 'love' for the Civil Services not withstanding, that is a training institute for the most premium services of the country. And IMO, it needs to have proper facilities and infrastructure - no point bemoaning that. The requirement of better infrastructure for healthcare and education stands on its on merit.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Dec 2013 14:44

thing is there is a widespread perception that bureaucrats rob peter to pay paul.
common complaint amongst all GOI folks re: IAS.
thats where the merit argument falls flat because when one side rises fast and the other doesn't, folks do get upset. healthcare for instance, is one of the most neglected areas in india, and the state of many otherwise critical places, as gakkad notes, is not upto spec.

Heres another analogy.
technically, the SPG armament and NSG armament both stand on their own merit. each is separate from the other per se, apart from any common eqpt.
but when one gets equipped double fast, and the other languishes, folks do see it as which takes precedence, irrespective of whether it was an act of omission not commission.

similarly, the manner in which bureaucrats manage their complaints and how they get resolved. the decision makers in most funding issues are bureaucrats. what really irritates folks is the manner in which they clear their "own" requirements while other groups requirements get stuck in red tape. that is a serious issue in india and has been for a long while. "yes minister" has a humorous take on this stuff from the originals whom we inherited this "system" from.

but for those who are part of the system, and see it first hand, its anything but humorous and breeds both resentment and anger.

Manu · Post by **Manu** » 12 Dec 2013 14:49

I'm glad that Karan, leader of the proletariat, hasn't yet set his sights on the new CSOI on Vinay Marg. There are many others, but what the heck.....

Truly a Billiyon ka Shikaari. All the Billis are now screwed though not, alas, literally.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Dec 2013 14:51

Ah sir, i am just an observer. not planning to lead any proletariat anywhere. no pitchforks and tar either.

i leave that to the true savior of dilli billis, shri kejriwal.

though i suspect his ultimate aim is also to gain entrance to all these places and get apricot meringue and fig and honey ice cream.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 12 Dec 2013 14:55

So how does the State elections 13 change the calculations for the GE-14. How many seats extra due to BJP wins and how many seats reduced due to weakness in Maharashtra. And what is the likely range for UP BJP.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 12 Dec 2013 14:56

Mumbai: BJP to invite 10,000 tea vendors for Modi's rally

The BJP is pulling out all the stops to make its Prime Ministerial candidate Narendra Modi's rally scheduled for December 22 a "grand" success, and in a strong message to Congress is inviting as many as 10,000 tea vendors to attend the public meeting.

"Around 10,000 tea vendors from the city will be invited to attend Modiji's rally. We will send invitations to them soon," a party functionary said last evening. Since he was named the party's prime ministerial nominee, Modi has been referring to his humble background as a tea vendor to strike a chord with the common people and to take on Nehru-Gandhi family.

Some of the comments

Pappu is going to invite one lakh thieves for his rally. But we all know only three (Zero Sibbal, Diggy, and Manish Bimari) will turn up.

Pappu is inviting 200000 kindergarten kids for the next rally. Hey?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 12 Dec 2013 14:59

Karan M wrote: apricot meringue and fig and honey ice cream.

Actually the apricot meringue and ice cream etc at these places are some what overrated. They are fine of course, but no true dilli billi gushes about its food or hangs out there for the food. Not for the longest time now.

Its mostly the NGO jhollawallas who go ga-ga, about these, since usually some one else is paying for them, and they dont spend the money they mooch of the govt to pay for these themselves elsewhere.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 12 Dec 2013 15:03

Karan may spare the new CSOI but I will not. If it came up in 1911, I would understand it. In 2011 after over 60 years of the republic, I dont.

The architecture and the decore is not worthy of the republic. It is however, worthy of a nation having dominion status.

That is my opinion of the new CSOI. The old one at KG matg was dull and dreary.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 12 Dec 2013 16:17

Atri wrote:Karan ji,

Anything above 2000 Rupees will be e-commerce.. not 50 rupees. below this amount (2000 is an arbitrary figure), cash transaction allowed.

above that amount, 2% transaction tax.

Atri ji,
lets not kid ourselves. The whole reason for Arthakranti is to break the congress support network. The same network inherited from the Brits. The proposals sound good but the whole reason for the implementation is nothing but preventing anti national forces from consolidating by using national resources.

Take this

A comprehensive study will need to be carried out to understand the effects of the proposal on the micro level, on all segments of Society and the Economy. Only the Government has the wherewithal and the resources necessary for conducting such an exercise.

Banks will have to invest in technology for efficient management and infrastructure for deeper penetration into areas of low presence. This will be a long-term process and Banks will have to plan their strategies accordingly.

The citizens will have to be informed about the new system over a certain period through the use of every possible means and media. A nationwide effort will have to be made using all existing administrative network to issue unique P.A. Numbers / Social Security no. and cards to each and every citizen.

Why do you need banks? To store money? That's a circle jerk argument.

WIth a globally recognised indicium of wealth, the current system collapses anyway. So trying to be ingeneous by saying Arthakranti will make the system equitable for all is baloney.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 12 Dec 2013 17:47

Rahul M wrote:
darshhan wrote:The other day I was just thinking about this. Why do we continue to use British built buildings to host our Govt and Politicians.? This includes our Parliament, North and South Blocks, Rashtrapati Bhawan, Residences of MPs in Lutyen's zone.

These are all symbols of slavery.

To me the continued usage of such buildings for official purposes is extremely shameful and totally devoid of any Pride in Indian Civilization.

To reclaim Bharat a new capital should be formed which includes a new Parliament and 3 BHK flats for MPs/Senior officials.
those buildings were made with Indian money by Indian workmen.

what do you propose to do about those ? allow immensely expensive and useful buildings go to waste to fulfil some misguided sense of nationalism ?

far from being shameful those buildings represent our trimuph over the colonials.

Rahul M, I am not proposing that we destroy these buildings. But they should not be used for housing and operating Indian Govt. And I doubt there will be any economic loss in case we decide to auction them. If anything we will earn much more than what is required to set up a new capital.

It is high time capital should change. The current capital is a legacy of British and Mughals. It can never give pride, only shame.

archan · Post by **archan** » 12 Dec 2013 18:27

Once a Chinese prof was in a talkative mood in my university. We were chatting in his office and discussion went on to India and China. He said, why is your capital so close to both China and Pakistan? It is easier to strike. You got all that nice land down south, why not move it closer to the sea?

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 12 Dec 2013 18:34

archan wrote:Once a Chinese prof was in a talkative mood in my university. We were chatting in his office and discussion went on to India and China. He said, why is your capital so close to both China and Pakistan? It is easier to strike. You got all that nice land down south, why not move it closer to the sea?

Nagpur is ideal for a capital city. Zero Mile is near Nagpur. Also, being RSS HQ will help Re-writing India's culture. NM ruling India from Nagpur will change India's current listless direction to a dharmic direction.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 12 Dec 2013 19:25

^^Beijing is close to Jaapan too.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 12 Dec 2013 19:30

Paul wrote:^^Beijing is close to Jaapan too.

yeh, but Japan is as pacifist as they come.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 12 Dec 2013 19:41

Altair wrote:
archan wrote:Once a Chinese prof was in a talkative mood in my university. We were chatting in his office and discussion went on to India and China. He said, why is your capital so close to both China and Pakistan? It is easier to strike. You got all that nice land down south, why not move it closer to the sea?
Nagpur is ideal for a capital city. Zero Mile is near Nagpur. Also, being RSS HQ will help Re-writing India's culture. NM ruling India from Nagpur will change India's current listless direction to a dharmic direction.

I would prefer it to be further east of Nagpur, near the tristate border of Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra and Chhattisgarh(Dantewada District). A completely new city can be built. The most obvious advantage of this location is that it is the epicentre of maoists in India. Nothing better to neutralise the main naxalite hub.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Dec 2013 19:47

Centered on kALEshwaram temple at the confluence of gOdAvari and prANahita - lot of place. Downside is there is good amount of forest cover may be not such a good idea.

or even Manthani.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 12 Dec 2013 19:51

Vijaynagar. Period.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 12 Dec 2013 19:53

matrimc wrote:Centered on kALEshwaram temple at the confluence of gOdAvari and prANahita - lot of place. Downside is there is good amount of forest cover may be not such a good idea.

or even Manthani.

This is roughly the area I had in mind.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Dec 2013 19:53

Hari Seldon wrote:bhajpa will need both Delhi state and central gubmint in its hands before it can overturn some of these cosy elitemen clubs.... cancel 'em leases, take back the land and property, stop taxpayer funding pronto, open up accounts to public scrutiny etc.

Hari: IHC accounts for 2011-12 are online at their site. It costed them 102 cr. to build the place - not sure whether land is included in that figure. Most of the funding came from private corps. but Dhilli also gave some - 4-5%. My accounting skills are poor to say the least. May be you can ask some of your students to analyze the accounts of these NGOs (as a case studies) or even prepare casestudies, a la hAvud.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 12 Dec 2013 19:56

Patliputra the capital of magadh. Not bihar.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 12 Dec 2013 20:26

A new city somewhere in central india would be the most ideal location. it should be world class with museums, think tanks, gov offices, etc and architecturally reflect the dharmic heritage of the country. All the gov buildings in Delhi can be turned into museums to generate revenue.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 12 Dec 2013 20:32

Former Union home secretary RK Singh joining BJP.