Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vivek.rao » 27 Dec 2013 23:41

Narendra Modi: SITting in judgement

This difference between moral and political accountability on the one hand and legal accountability on the other is important to understand. In democracies, the only arena where moral and political accountability is settled is the arena of elections. The electorate weighs in all the factors and then casts their vote. In UP elections of 2012, for example, the electorate factored in the record of Mayawati government on being able to deliver on law and order but fail massively on corruption, and on balance decided to vote her out. What has the electorate of Gujarat done? In three successive elections after the 2002 riots, they have voted in Modi by a decisive mandate each time. On balance, between Modi's ability as an administrator during the 2002 riots and his record in governance overall, the electorate of Gujarat has overwhelmingly endorsed Modi. Any political or moral accountability has thus been settled not just once but thrice.

But what about legal accountability? The verdict by the metropolitan magistrate on 26th December 2013, accepting SIT closure report and rejecting Zakia Jafri's protest petition, has settled that question too. Or has it?

Consider some of the well-known charges against Modi and his government regarding 2002. That he delayed calling the Army by three days and thus gave free hand to rioters. As court has now proved, rioting started on 28th February 2002, and within hours, on the same day, the Army columns were air lifted and were on ground by early hours of the next day, that is 1st March 2002. This despite the fact that the Indian Army was on eyeball-to-eyeball biggest war mobilisation against Pakistan after the 1971 war. Or consider the charge that dead bodies of the victims of the innocent men, women and children, burnt down in the Sabarmati express, were paraded in Ahmadabad and that this incited passions. As the court has now proved, this is an entirely concocted charge, as the bodies left Godhra in the night on February 27, reached Ahmadabad in the early morning hours, and then were handed over to respective families soon after. Or consider the much reported gruesome incident of a pregnant woman raped and the fetus ripped apart from her womb. As another court verdict has proved, such an incident never took place.

Alternatively, consider some of the leading personalities arraigned against Modi and his government regarding the 2002 riots. Teesta Setalavad, the toast of the left-liberal activist gang, was awarded the Padma Shri and Rajiv Gandhi National Sadhavana Award for her activism. Today, she stands accused of perjury, of concocting evidence, of dictating false affidavits and of misusing funds collected in the name of riot victims. Residents of Gulbarg society have banned her entry on account of some of these accusations. Or consider Sanjiv Bhatt; as SIT recorded in its closure report, now accepted by a court of law, Bhatt laid about his presence in the February 27 2002 meeting, fabricated facts, concocted intelligence reports and submitted a false affidavit in the Supreme Court. Or consider Zakia Jafri herself; between 2002 and 2006, she appeared in front of multiple law enforcing authorities and never once named Modi. In March 2002 statement, she actually praised the police for timely action and saving lives of many including her. In August 2003 she appeared before Nanavati commission but did not make any allegations against Modi. In September 2003, she filed a petition in Supreme Court and again did not make any allegations. It was only in 2006, four years after the incident that she came with the allegations for the first time. But in an unprecedented action, when Zakia Jafri was examined by SIT in November 2008, she again failed to state any of the facts or allegations against Modi!


As the SIT closure report, now accepted by the court, proves, every charge ever made against Modi was concocted and every witness ever produced against Modi was false. Never in history of democratic India, has one man been so systematically besmirched through a campaign of calumny and falsehood. All the levers of the establishment, be it dubious NGOs and activists, compromised sections of the media or corrupt and dishonest members of the bureaucracy, were used with one express purpose - to embroil Modi in a false case.


It can be convincingly argued that the might of the falsehood unleashed against Modi was so immense, that a host of political powers used it as an ideological prop to further their politics. On the strength of this falsehood elections were fought, reputations of dubious characters were built, national and international awards were won. Such people, who built a public perception for themselves as fighting for the riot victims and against Modi, built an important role for themselves in influencing the national public discourse.


In some measure, the activities of all these characters gained legitimacy because the Supreme Court's dramatic intervention of appointing a SIT to investigate a chief minister in office. This innovation of appointing a SIT was a first in history of India. The Supreme Court was driven by the desire to deliver justice to the riot victims. But does the Supreme Court not have a sense to deliver justice to an innocent man too? Will that justice be delivered by merely declaring him not guilty as happens in all routine criminal cases? But this was not a routine case.

The Supreme Court accepted this itself when it deviated from the routine by its dramatic intervention. Principles of natural justice demand that when declaring the man innocent, against a decade of falsehood, the Supreme Court make a similar dramatic intervention too. Only such an intervention will have the effect of decisively reversing a decade of falsehood. That decisive intervention must be a judicial innovation too, just like the SIT was. When the case finally reaches the Supreme Court, the court ought to declare Modi as innocent by delivering a judicial apology to him. Only that will serve the cause of natural justice.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Abhijit » 27 Dec 2013 23:44

kapilrdave wrote:Farji is a new alternative? For whom? Let's see.

If you want to vote for an alternative who believes in free doles, you have gehlots, ammas, silkis, and biggest of all, mainos.

If you want to vote for leftists/naxalites, you already bios leftists and lesser bios leftists (samajvadis) dime a dozen.

If you want to vote for muslim appeasers, you have silkis, behenjis, nikammas and the BAAP of all, congoons.

If you want to vote snake-oil merchants, vote just about anyone other than bjp.

If you want to vote anti nationals, you have abdullahs, muslim leagues, jagans, 90 years aged young dudes wearing dark goggles.

If you want to vote anpadh-gawars (except farji most of AAP is illiterate) then you have lot of lallus.

What new farji brings to the plate, hain ji?


Isn't this precisely what AK is bringing to the table and directly competing against Congress AND taking away votes from congress? He hasn't uttered a single statement that even remotely competes against BJP. I think the so-called 'super-analysts' of BR are missing the wood for trees. If so-called middle calls voters are gravitating towards AAP and leaving BJP then they are good riddance. Because they will be just like the fair-weather allies in the past (like TDP).

I have a better CT than all the zany CT's against AK/AAP thrown out there by frothing-at-the-mouth BRAnalysts. I claim that AK/AAP is BJP's manchurian candidate - not congress', not BSP, not communists, not USA/NATO but BJP's own manchurian candidate that has been unleashed on congress and all the other khichadi parties. If you don't believe it, pl. check the numbers I posted on Delhi elections.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Rahul M » 28 Dec 2013 00:11

johneeG saab, where did I say (or imply) that la-loo is illiterate ? I'm well aware of his degree.

kejri has the same democracy by gimmick policy of la-loo, with a dash of sophistication.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 28 Dec 2013 00:16

Abhijit wrote:Isn't this precisely what AK is bringing to the table and directly competing against Congress AND taking away votes from congress? He hasn't uttered a single statement that even remotely competes against BJP. I think the so-called 'super-analysts' of BR are missing the wood for trees. If so-called middle calls voters are gravitating towards AAP and leaving BJP then they are good riddance. Because they will be just like the fair-weather allies in the past (like TDP).

Middle class voters are voters giving a mandate, they are not one's allies. To voters one can't say, "good riddance".

Abhijit wrote:I have a better CT than all the zany CT's against AK/AAP thrown out there by frothing-at-the-mouth BRAnalysts. I claim that AK/AAP is BJP's manchurian candidate - not congress', not BSP, not communists, not USA/NATO but BJP's own manchurian candidate that has been unleashed on congress and all the other khichadi parties. If you don't believe it, pl. check the numbers I posted on Delhi elections.


Issue is simple.
Sonia ji's car, the Congress, ran over an innocent, the Indian economy, and the angry villagers have started attacking Sonia's car. Sonia is trying to shift her luggage & car's resources over to her new car, AAP, but doesn't want it to be known that AAP too is her car, lest it faces villagers' wrath too, and puts an end to Sonia's political journey.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 28 Dec 2013 00:42

svenkat wrote:BRF mullahs,
Congress has announced inquiry by retd SC judge on 'snoopgate'. Any inside news? If it turns out that NaMo was 'spying because of love interest',this can get nasty given that privacy is an important issue and we are talking of a woman here.Your thoughts?


NaMo also has a right to privacy. What about that? If the case is that all public figures do not have "right to privacy" because they are public., then why is the "private life" of SoniaG and her ilk shielded?

The "snoopgate" is again all about elite's moralising - on the street it does not make any further interest other than voyeurism - which everybody has to a certain degree.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 28 Dec 2013 08:23

sonia and their ilks are gawds, as would shahzada and the fackeers who support the corruption system. their privacy is exclusive to the dynasty and can never be public.

modi is for the public, from the public and by the public.;)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby subhamoy.das » 28 Dec 2013 08:46

Congress has confined them selves to a grand defeat in 2014. They have now nothing to loose. So they will try every thing to book NAMO. NAMO's image is beyond hurting stage now. If some how they can have a case against him and use the new law to keep him away. But I am sure by that time NDA will be in power !

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RoyG » 28 Dec 2013 09:09

subhamoy.das wrote:Congress has confined them selves to a grand defeat in 2014. They have now nothing to loose. So they will try every thing to book NAMO. NAMO's image is beyond hurting stage now. If some how they can have a case against him and use the new law to keep him away. But I am sure by that time NDA will be in power !


They still have jihadi card.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Rahul Mehta » 28 Dec 2013 09:21

Dear All,

Many have become AK bhagat and will NOT vote for NaMo, because paid-media has convinced them that AK has legislative plan to reduce corruption to as low as US-levels once AK becomes PM. And paid-media has convinced all that NaMo has NO plan or even intention to reduce corruption. Now what part is real? NaMo till date has NOT disclosed his plan to fight against lower-middle corruption, if he has any plan. And 99 out of 100 BJP leaders have shown NO collective desire to reduce corruption in lower-middle level. Worse, most BJP leaders became party to it.

Now either BJP can say "take a hike" to all anti-corruption voters, and yes, they will take a hike. OR BJP\NaMo can show some REAL plan to reduce corruption in administration\courts etc. Otherwise, it will be MNC-owners who via paid-media prevail in convincing voters , whether NaMo will reduce corruption or whether AK will reduce corruption.

Now my take is that BJP leaders will NOT be able to give any real plan to reduce corruption. And my fear is that BJP leaders may get into Transaction Tax type nonsense , in which case, I will give a newspaper advt to explain why Transaction Tax is a colossal nonsense and why voters must not vote anyone who supports such colossal nonsense . So by NOT giving any concrete plan to reduce corruption, BJP-leaders will enable MNC-owners and their paid-media to become king maker. And MNC-owners will make NaMo or Congress or AK the king, depending on who gets them the best deal.

So I request Nationalists to read the voters demand. The voters want REAL proposals to combat corruption. If all you offer is NaMo-mask, then AK will offer his AAP-cap, and then paid-media will decide whether mask is better or cap.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 28 Dec 2013 09:33

rahul mehta, i humbly request you to stay away from illicit liquor. :twisted: it not only impairs you, but can permanently damage your important sensors to look at things with reality and facts.

paid media is fine, but self-intoxicated posts would kill the march towards freedom from corruption and progress faster than aad admi virus.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ramana » 28 Dec 2013 09:34

Can those three police officers be charged with lying to the SIT et al?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 28 Dec 2013 10:01

forged evidence should be punishable offence or pardonable offence?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Saral » 28 Dec 2013 12:33

This is the NaMo thread and we are talking of AK.. I just learnt that my birader was Kejri's batchmate as a trainee during the late 80s (at TISCO).. All that he recalls was that AK was a quiet fellow. I don't think we can underestimate the long-term impact of AK on Indian politics. If he lasts, he will be bigger than he is now. He combines idealism with action and determination. Maybe some of his ideas are hare-brained but so what? At least he has them out there. Before his entry into politics, he did all the NGO activism thing for a long time did he not? And donated his Magsaysay award for some cause. No matter how naive his thinking might be, no one accuse him of not being an idealist.

BJP/NaMo need to take stock of what AKs rise portrends.. He and AAP (a masterstroke in naming a party) are addressing a section of voters that they are not. I believe RM-ji has identified it correctly as "BJP\NaMo can show some REAL plan to reduce corruption" if they have to address this segment. Everyone and his dog believe they know what corruption is and its root causes and it is for that reason AK is finding resonance. BJP seems rather uncool and out of date and need to step up their game. 2014 gen elections is the BJPs to lose.. if they do, then they are out of the reckoning for ever. This is not the time to be conservative (as they dawdled in getting Harshvardhan as Delhi party CM nominee) or polite. Go for the jaguar vein.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 28 Dec 2013 13:27

nsriram ji,

There are many Naxals, Jihadist appeasers in India. One more does not make a difference. The resistance from many Bharatiyas to Arvind Kejriwal is because we are simply damn certain that he is a trojan horse of outside and dynasty interests who have pledged endless NGO and Media support, as well as acquiescence of current secular establishment, Muslim and jhuggi-jhoprhi vote-banks. His "idealism" and ideology are not much of interest.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 28 Dec 2013 13:34

In one of the talk shows Meenakshi Lekhi produced a letter written by Sonia Gandhi to PM Dr. Manmohan Singh in 2005 "requesting" staying the transfer of Arvind Kejriwal from out of Delhi.

Would somebody be knowing where one can find a copy of this letter online?

TIA

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Yagnasri » 28 Dec 2013 13:52

By the way who is the 90 year old with black glasses mentioned above? I fairly know most of cheats and can not pinpoint him.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 28 Dec 2013 14:00

Narayana Rao wrote:By the way who is the 90 year old with black glasses mentioned above? I fairly know most of cheats and can not pinpoint him.


Karunanidhi?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby a_bharat » 28 Dec 2013 14:04

I think the fear of AAP cutting into anti-congress and/or BJP votes is causing grief to BJP supporters on this forum. I do not believe that he would be a puppet in the hands of Sonia/Congress, even though Congress may try to use AAP/AK in a way that hurts BJP.

If AAP is successful in significantly reducing corruption in Delhi, it will be a positive development for the country. If Congress weakens to a point where it becomes AAP vs BJP (well, I am daydreaming), India will be on its way to become a developed country.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby VikramS » 28 Dec 2013 14:20

a_bharat:

The issue is not AAP or BJP. It is Congress.

It is critical for NaMo to win with a comfortable margin to uproot the Congress.

Given the amount of media attention AAP is getting, I have little doubt that the primary goal of AAP is to slow down the NaMo train.

Regarding reducing corruption: Most AAP followers have no idea what begets corruption and how the system is sustained. Take case of the 700L water supply per house. The way AAP has proposed if you consume less than 700L you pay nothing but if you consume more than 700L then you pay for everything! It does not take a genius to understand that it will be very tempting to get your bill to be 680-690L range with the connivance of the local meter-reader. Given the amount of transmission loss it will be very hard to pin any one particular person.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Supratik » 28 Dec 2013 14:43

Is it me or is Modi not campaigning hard enough? I would expect him to run around extensively in UP, Bihar. Also no activity in WB, OR, AS, JH, etc.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby muraliravi » 28 Dec 2013 14:56

I think Media has comprehensively decided to back AAP/Khujliwal every day 24X7 in a bid to halt the modi wave. Modi is living in cuckoo's world if he thinks he can walk to the PM's chair ignoring AAP. It is a fact that there is a substantial middle class which is waiting to get swayed by AAP through our sold out media. If he thinks he can do rally after rally in india's rural hinterland and rise to power, he is mistaken. Media will give attention to AK whether modi attacks him or not. The only way modi can get his space back is by attacking AAP head on and reassuring his support base that he is their best option. What people are missing here is that while AK/AAP will have only impact for their party in 10-20 LS seats, they can make many bjp voters sit at home across india. That is exactly what the media is doing by 2 means.

1. Cut coverage for modi rallies, not talking about him as they used to.
2. Keep showing AAP clowns 24x7 and parrot cong = bjp without showing that AAP is in power in delhi with congress support.

These 2 things can dissuade enuf fence sitters who were considering giving BJP a chance in 2014 to stay back home.

If BJP decides to stay status quo and not do anything, they should be prepared for BJP = 140, cong = 120. AK as PM with congi/3rd front support.

Despite what some gung-ho people think, BJP's realistic max is 175-180 even if AK/AAP was never in the picture. It is exactly 35-40 seats where AAP will have an impact against BJP either directly like in delhi/haryana/mumbai/bangalore or indirectly in many smaller urban pockets like jaipur, nagpur, kanpur, lucknow etc.. where because of AAP, BJP voters will stay home or AAP may cut BJP votes even by 2-3% and help congress or another party win. If Namo is serious about winning the elections, he should know these 35-40 seats in and out.
Last edited by muraliravi on 28 Dec 2013 15:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20317 » 28 Dec 2013 15:05

RajeshA wrote:
Narayana Rao wrote:By the way who is the 90 year old with black glasses mentioned above? I fairly know most of cheats and can not pinpoint him.


Karunanidhi?


Karu-nai-nidhi :)

........................................

Actually there are multiple reasons for bringing AK to NaMo thread.

1) AK is getting discussed here because somehow it has been floating around that BJP is working through AAP to counter Congress. Had this been propagated by Congress etc. it could have been discarded as nonsense. Unfortunately it is coming out of even BJP supporters. But nobody pauses to think why would BJP work using a B-Team when they have a perfectly good A-Team. Has NaMo shown lack of confidence in any part of his BJP team.

2) A known enemy is something you can manage but an unknown enemy who has clearly shown his animosity towards BJP and clearly shown his willingness to deal with congress, has a potential that needs to be taken care of.

3) The mandate in Delhi was a fractured mandate but still any rational man can find the trends. Besides a fractured mandate calls for a cooling off period or for cooperation, both of which have had some lofty examples now in our history. But here is a case which defies both. People had put the highest belief in BJP then AAP and then in Congress. Now BJP and JDU had run just such a govt where an erstwhile enemy was wiped out. But in this case from the get go the prime allegation that AAP put out was that BJP wants to break it. Why such a cry? Why were they not willing to share power with BJP but are willing to be used by Congress. A flip question is why is Congress split on support to AAP. What are the renegades sensing in the larger Congress party strategy that they do not like?

4) The utter stupidity displayed by the so called english educated who when the day came to calculate and lead instead joined the most uninformed. Why could not those in South Delhi and New Delhi do some basic calculations on what was being promised. This for me is utterly nerve raking. I used to believe all are my countrymen and I need to take care of all even if in different manners. But this makes me believe I need to be careful of my own. This probably hurt me at an emotional level the most. So I guess people who already have a healthy disbelief in others can discount it for themselves.

5) The sheer hope. Hope is a bad bad idea to start a work with. You want to start something good you got have the gumption to sacrifice. But hope? At least that is why people like me bred on traditionalism have believed and benefited from. This is a personal observation so I guess may not count for some but that does not imply I and others like me have to keep quite.

6) While a lot of us have hated congress, but we still need to be mindful in that congress too has hosted leaders that find resonance on the saffron side of the divide. And there are just too many to believe that a Mother Son duo with their shenanigans and B-teams, can damage all that and still get away with it. Almost all of us between 35-45 have loved and understood PVNR and look how it has turned out in just 10 years.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20317 » 28 Dec 2013 15:21

muraliravi wrote:I think Media has comprehensively decided to back AAP/Khujliwal every day 24X7 in a bid to halt the modi wave. Modi is living in cuckoo's world if he thinks he can walk to the PM's chair ignoring AAP. It is a fact that there is a substantial middle class which is waiting to get swayed by AAP through our sold out media. If he thinks he can do rally after rally in india's rural hinterland and rise to power, he is mistaken. Media will give attention to AK whether modi attacks him or not. The only way modi can get his space back is by attacking AAP head on and reassuring his support base that he is their best option. What people are missing here is that while AK/AAP will have only impact for their party in 10-20 LS seats, they can make many bjp voters sit at home across india. That is exactly what the media is doing by 2 means.

1. Cut coverage for modi rallies, not talking about him as they used to.
2. Keep showing AAP clowns 24x7 and parrot cong = bjp without showing that AAP is in power in delhi with congress support.

These 2 things can dissuade enuf fence sitters who were considering giving BJP a chance in 2014 to stay back home.

If BJP decides to stay status quo and not do anything, they should be prepared for BJP = 140, cong = 120. AK as PM with congi/3rd front support.

Despite what some gung-ho people think, BJP's realistic max is 175-180 even if AK/AAP was never in the picture. It is exactly 35-40 seats where AAP will have an impact against BJP either directly like in delhi/haryana/mumbai/bangalore or indirectly in many smaller urban pockets like jaipur, nagpur, kanpur, lucknow etc.. where because of AAP, BJP voters will stay home or AAP may cut BJP votes even by 2-3% and help congress or another party win. If Namo is serious about winning the elections, he should know these 35-40 seats in and out.


Exactly.

BJP has been crying all through town that about 160 seats have a SM impact. And now some probably want to believe Congress did not hear that. I mean what are the most corrupt people in history expected to be, stupids? Congress is infested with the corrupt because at least some of them have the brains to lead the public by their noses.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Supratik » 28 Dec 2013 15:21

muraliravi wrote:I think Media has comprehensively decided to back AAP/Khujliwal every day 24X7 in a bid to halt the modi wave. Modi is living in cuckoo's world if he thinks he can walk to the PM's chair ignoring AAP. It is a fact that there is a substantial middle class which is waiting to get swayed by AAP through our sold out media. If he thinks he can do rally after rally in india's rural hinterland and rise to power, he is mistaken. Media will give attention to AK whether modi attacks him or not. The only way modi can get his space back is by attacking AAP head on and reassuring his support base that he is their best option. What people are missing here is that while AK/AAP will have only impact for their party in 10-20 LS seats, they can make many bjp voters sit at home across india. That is exactly what the media is doing by 2 means.

1. Cut coverage for modi rallies, not talking about him as they used to.
2. Keep showing AAP clowns 24x7 and parrot cong = bjp without showing that AAP is in power in delhi with congress support.

These 2 things can dissuade enuf fence sitters who were considering giving BJP a chance in 2014 to stay back home.

If BJP decides to stay status quo and not do anything, they should be prepared for BJP = 140, cong = 120. AK as PM with congi/3rd front support.

Despite what some gung-ho people think, BJP's realistic max is 175-180 even if AK/AAP was never in the picture. It is exactly 35-40 seats where AAP will have an impact against BJP either directly like in delhi/haryana/mumbai/bangalore or indirectly in many smaller urban pockets like jaipur, nagpur, kanpur, lucknow etc.. where because of AAP, BJP voters will stay home or AAP may cut BJP votes even by 2-3% and help congress or another party win. If Namo is serious about winning the elections, he should know these 35-40 seats in and out.


I don't believe AAP is going to have an effect outside NCR except some urban pockets. MSM has never been pro-BJP and is openly anti-Hindutva. If that hasn't stopped BJP in the past, it will not in the future. MSM is going to try its best to stop Modi irrespective of Kejriwal. Due to kleptocracy most of the MSM is controlled by the same power brokers who have controlled India for the majority of the past 65 yrs. If Modi talks about AAP he is going to make Kejri a contender which he is not. I am more concerned that he is not campaigning hard in UP, BH, JH, WB, OR, AS, etc.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Supratik » 28 Dec 2013 15:26

The best bet for anti-Hindutva forces in 2014 is a third front Govt. with the likes of Kejri, Nitish, Mulayam, Mamata, Naveen, JJ, etc with outside support from Congress. Kejri's job is to stop a 7-0 for BJP in Delhi. Now if there is an alliance between AAP and Congress in Delhi, they would hope to do a 7-0 on the BJP. The job of BJP is to drum in the opportunistic alliance making of Kejri in Delhi to the voters. If they don't do it then they deserve to loose.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20317 » 28 Dec 2013 15:33

Supratik ji, it is obvious NaMo should not be speaking about AK or AAP at all. But the issues that these guys use to hoodwink people with must be countered. Besides you do not need AAP in every city doing exactly the same. All he needs to do in Banglore for example is to cut 2% votes. I expect this general election to be close in Karnataka esp. Banglore. Mumbai has already shown that they would go vote for congress even when they are bombarded.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby muraliravi » 28 Dec 2013 15:43

Supratik wrote:The best bet for anti-Hindutva forces in 2014 is a third front Govt. with the likes of Kejri, Nitish, Mulayam, Mamata, Naveen, JJ, etc with outside support from Congress. Kejri's job is to stop a 7-0 for BJP in Delhi. Now if there is an alliance between AAP and Congress in Delhi, they would hope to do a 7-0 on the BJP. The job of BJP is to drum in the opportunistic alliance making of Kejri in Delhi to the voters. If they don't do it then they deserve to loose.


My friend, the whole scenario is so bad simple because of one fact: The Delhi BJP organization is in tatters. People give too much credit to Dr. Harshvardhan. It was namo who saved the face for BJP in delhi. BJP in fact just retained or rather lost only 2-3% of its vote because modi was the face. If not, they would done worse. Compare this to BJP Bihar's organization and how they have made Nitish look like a joker. Dont have any expectation from Delhi BJP to counter Kejri. All I hope from the BJP/Rss org at large is to stop them from damaging BJP outside Delhi.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Supratik » 28 Dec 2013 15:44

Ravi, I believe NM should just deliver his message to the urban Indians instead of attacking Kejri who is still a local issue. MSM IS NOT GOING to help him as these are controlled by the same kleptocracy that has controlled India post-independence. They are equally corrupt even if they have debates and editorials on corruption. The best thing to do is once you have things under control fix a few of these so that they will remember for a long time how to be neutral.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20317 » 28 Dec 2013 16:08

Yes, yes and again yes Supratik ji, NaMo should not speak about kejri. That is why we need to attack this raktabeej because the main asura will be taken care of by the main sur from this side of the LoC.

In Delhi things got particularly accentuated because of a host of reasons. AK successfully hijacking the Anna movement and subverting the BR's movement. Harshvardhan was too late in the scene. The whole competition had turned tactical. Outside he is not likely to be such a big force. But these ideas are pernicious to say the least. This is the clear case for the perfect being the enemy of the good. BJP hard as it may try will never amount to perfect. Not even for rank hindutvavaadis. But a strategy of 'pitting a promise simplicter against accumulated karmas' has always worked to divide people up and mostly it benefits the entrenched.

muraliravi ji, BJP overall lost only 2-3% but looking deeper you will realise that a good 30% of the voters who had voted for BJP last time when things were even worse have changed preferences to AAP. These probably are the people who still want NaMo but don't think much of BJP. Now it sounds all surreal but how can NaMo come up if BJP cannot come up. The campaign may be presidential style but it still remains subject to a westminster system. By ignoring to ring fence, the SM affected seats BJP will end up attenuating the full potential of NaMo.

And again NaMo should not attack kejri. But BJP SM-supporters should counter kejri supporters at least at the level they already are.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Comer » 28 Dec 2013 16:18

It is a sobering to think that Advani and Co wanted to elevate NaMo only after assembly elections. It is downright scathe to imagine if Advani or Sushma leading BJP at this crucial time. If only central BJP wasn't sputtering around this Naxal group wouldn't have existed. What a price to pay and how shortly things change

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Atri » 28 Dec 2013 16:35

ONE MAN STANDING - Anarchy faces India without Narendra Modi - By N.V. Subramanian

New Delhi: Between India and anarchy stands Narendra Modi, and the Congress party, its political partners, Western powers, China and Pakistan are determined to remove him from the way. In pursuit of his own ambitions, Arvind Kejriwal of the Aam Admi Party is prepared to play their game. There are some in the Bharatiya Janata Party who would also gladly see the Gujarat chief minister quit the prime minister’s race. It would conceivably be the best thing for India if he becomes the prime minister in 2014 and the worst if his detractors and enemies triumph. Under him, the nation will resolutely rise, and in his absence, it will plunge into the abyss. This is as clear as day is not night.

Having failed to trap him in fraudulent Gujarat riots’ litigations, the Manmohan Singh government has instituted its own inquiry into the so-called “snoop-gate”. This is a witch-hunt. The Union cabinet’s clearance of the “snoop-gate” inquiry was timed on purpose to coincide with the judicial pronouncement on the Gulbarg massacre case. A pronouncement of Modi’s guilt by the metropolitan court of B.J.Ganatra taken together with the “snoop-gate” inquiry would have sunk the Gujarat chief minister’s prime-ministerial campaign. The knives would have been out for him in the Bharatiya Janata Party with Sushma Swaraj and Shivraj Singh Chauhan preening themselves to replace Modi unless Lal Krishna Advani pre-empted them. But the idea also was that if Modi got a clean chit in the Ehsan Jafri case, the “snoop-gate” inquiry would temper the celebrations in the Modi camp, and it has played to the script so far. Nevertheless, Modi is beginning increasingly to appear as a victim of Congress machinations and dirty tricks, and this could potentially rebound on the party.

But in attempting to halt Modi in his tracks, the Congress is prepared calculatedly to hurt itself, as it has done in Delhi by propping up Arvind Kejriwal. Shiela Dixit and Co. perhaps are presently expendable for the Sonia-Rahul Gandhi high command, but the dynasty seems prepared to make further sacrifices to keep Narendra Modi at bay. Reconciled to losing the 2014 election badly, the dynasty appears keen to buttress Arvind Kejriwal to neutralize Modi. One giveaway to his scheme is the sudden animation of Ahmed Patel, Sonia Gandhi’s all-powerful political secretary, who, according to the press, managed to get the Aam Admi Party on board. When Shiela Dixit tried to scupper the deal, Patel came into the limelight for the first time in decades to say all was well with the arrangement with the Aam Admi Party. Patel, if anyone needs reminding, comes from Gujarat, and is the party’s point man to target Narendra Modi in the state and elsewhere.

If there is any deal in which Ahmed Patel is involved, you would be seriously hard-pressed to call it chaste. Since he has now become the face of the Congress for ties with the Aam Admi Party, it sends its own message. The Congress attempt, perhaps, is to manage a Delhi-type election result all over the country where a clear majority eludes Modi, and then to back a complete non-entity for the post of prime minister, and Kejriwal and his group could come handy for such a denouement. Kejriwal may be a clean man, but most men, if not all, have a price. Against Anna Hazare’s explicit wishes, Kejriwal entered politics. So his claim that Hazare remains his guru is humbug and base opportunism. That is fine. No man is perfect, and ambition is not a bad thing. But ambition can also take you into nether regions and have you truck with the devil. Remember Faust?

Power is like that. Once you are seduced by power, it takes no while to go down the slippery slope. Remarkable are those who remain in restraint throughout, and they are rare. Kejriwal has stepped into the cesspool of power politics with hands yoked to the Congress party. What can you say to that? He won on an anti-Congress and anti-Bharatiya Janata Party platform. The Bharatiya Janata Party stepped out of the picture when it refused to take office or support another. Kejriwal came under pressure from his legislators to form the government braced by the Congress. He even claims his mini referendum supported that decision. Someone is being disingenuous here. How did voters who had vitriolic hatred for the Congress suddenly agree to support Kejriwal’s tie up with that party? It does not square up. This is the beginning of the dissimulation and more will follow. It comes as no surprise to this writer. ‘All things truly wicked,’ Ernest Hemingway wrote in A Moveable Feast, ‘start from an innocence.’ Anyone who could betray a good man like Hazare cannot be expected to live up to the highest ideals for long. At any rate, the Congress is like termite (with apologies to the termite). It hollows out anyone or anything it seizes, and the Congress high command has captured Arvind Kejriwal. Ahmed Patel has entered the frame, the pilot fish to the lower kingdom.

The history of the Congress party is to use and discard allies and friends. It backed Nitish Kumar in Bihar after he broke with the Bharatiya Janata Party, and he is, today, a nowhere man, deeply embittered, with his prime-ministerial dreams shattered. Arvind Kejriwal will suffer the same fate. The Congress will tolerate his public abuses even while silently undercutting him, and by the time he is addicted to power, it will press its demands on him. Almost certainly, the Congress party will use the Aam Admi Party to absorb the people’s anger against it, and employ Kejriwal’s newfound celebrity to upset Narendra Modi’s applecart in North India where it most fears his march. Whether or not it succeeds is another matter, because such underhand dealings cannot entirely be concealed from voters, but its aim would be to kill two birds with one stone. The Congress party is desperate not so much for itself as for the fate of the dynasty if Narendra Modi comes to power, and desperate organizations can do dangerous things. In doing the Congress’s bidding, Arvind Kejriwal will surely cover his tracks with pious declamations and platitudes, and there may even be anti-Congress rhetoric for public consumption, but don’t be fooled. The grand old party is wizardly in entrapment. It has compromised the bulk of the Bharatiya Janata Party’s Delhi establishment, and its hatred for Modi stems from his refusal to sell out. Arvind Kejriwal can no longer claim similar immunity because he will be chief minister of Delhi shortly strictly courtesy Sonia Gandhi and Rahul, with Ahmed Patel making all the theatrical arrangements for the deception of you and I. All with a single-point agenda to stop Narendra Modi.

Which is where the Western powers come in together with China and Pakistan with contributory roles. A weak, politically divided, economically crippled India suits their interests best. With Modi’s arrival, and the country’s unstoppable rise under his leadership a given, their entire devilry is frustrated. This may cast up as a surprise but Narendra Modi faces the direst threat to his life abroad. Intelligence officers go so far to suggest that Modi should undertake no foreign trips for the full duration of his first term as prime minister. It is not known if such inputs have been conveyed to him. The United States is in the forefront of Western powers that would loathe Modi’s ascension to power at the Centre. It withdrew his visa no sooner than the Congress formed the Central government, and it tried to play the Centre against Modi in the Devyani Khobragade case by objecting to his Bombay rally citing a non-existent threat to its Bandra East consulate. Against Modi, however, the campaign would exceed all this. The anti-Modi hit squads within India have suspected Western links, and the danger to his life multiplies abroad. In all such activities, the Pakistani connection is never far away, and looming in the background is China, Pakistan’s all-weather friend, and India’s implacable foe, which has much to fear from Modi’s rise. On the campaign trail, every hour that he survives is a small miracle.

And if he is removed, India will be joined in anarchy. You can write off this nation for a whole generation.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Supratik » 28 Dec 2013 16:48

I am in agreement with most parts of this article. The Congress party reminds me of the later Mughals with all types of conspiracies and intrigues to hold onto power and even going to the extent of inviting foreign powers to invade India. While, Modi reminds me of Shivaji.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Singha » 28 Dec 2013 17:43

people who play with such hounds should remember how the foreign powers disposed off them once their use was gone.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby subhamoy.das » 28 Dec 2013 18:27

deleted

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby chaanakya » 28 Dec 2013 18:46

Kumar Biswas told one reporter "AAJ Ramleela to Kal LalKila"

But it seems they would get tied up with Delhi before they take plunge i Rural areas. In Urban areas , people may swing to some extent.

BJP should play responsible opposition in Delhi and keep AAP busy there. These fellows would try to pin blame of their failure on BJP.
BJP leaders should not talk about settings or problems of AAP or what AAP would do in future or whether AAP would do this or that on TV shows. Let AAP get tied up in their own promises. Praise them a lot and support in Assembly if required. Many AAP supporters are (former) BJP supporters.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby arindam » 28 Dec 2013 19:44

Modi to hold huge rally in Kolkata

With a view to strike it big in the 2014 general elections in West Bengal, the BJP has decided to bring its star campaigner and prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi to hold a massive rally at Kolkata’s Brigade Parade Ground.

Modi would hold a rally at Brigade Ground on February 5, State BJP president Rahul Sinha said adding the party was aiming at holding at least 100 rallies in the State.

The planned Brigade rally tended to reflect the seriousness with which West Bengal was being taken by the saffron outfit, insiders said adding it would be a challenge for the BJP to fill up the ground which had full capacity of 10-lakh-plus people.

“If we can do it we will surely come to the forefront in State fitting into the imagination of the people as a veritable alternative,” a senior leader said.

Apart from Modi, Central leaders like Venkaiah Naidu, Shahnawaz Hussain, Dr MM Joshi would also hold rallies in various parts of the State. Sinha said the party was planning to hold a rally with its prime ministerial candidate in North Bengal as well.


The WB BJP state unit's organization is in shambles to say the least. Not sure how they would manage to pull it off. Errant factionalism and indifference reigns large.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 28 Dec 2013 19:52

Need Help!

In one of the talk shows Meenakshi Lekhi produced a letter written by Sonia Gandhi to PM Dr. Manmohan Singh in 2005 "requesting" staying the transfer of Arvind Kejriwal from out of Delhi.

Would somebody be knowing where one can find a copy of this letter online?

TIA

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Patni » 28 Dec 2013 19:56

IMHO after a long time the Indian nation seem to be in process of taking much needed course correction away from failed left leaning path and moving towards more balanced growth oriented path that has lot better chance of uplifting millions much faster then ever possible with socialist mindset. NM is more about right policies and vision and IMHO he should concentrate on providing more detailed blueprint for "vikas".

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Supratik » 28 Dec 2013 20:01

I think NM should have held a few rallies in seats in WB where they have a chance instead of in Kolkata. Kolkata is currently in the firm grip of Mamata.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Atish » 28 Dec 2013 21:04

I love NaMo and hate Prashant Bhushan type leftists. But....

I had tears in my eyes when the young Rakhi Birla (actually from Valmiki tribe rather than a Pilani Birla), gave a full throated Vande Mataram and Bharat Mata ki Jai before taking oath of office. Maybe I was being fanciful but I detected passion and idealism in that voice. Kudos to AK 47 for decimating Congress, for bringing corruption center stage and not the least for solid people like Manish Sisodiya and Rakhi Birla.

NaMo is a blessing sure but AK is not a curse.

Atish.


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