Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Supratik
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Supratik » 28 Dec 2013 21:21

Atish wrote:
NaMo is a blessing sure but AK is not a curse.

Atish.


Will find out in a few years but how does he explain taking support of the same Congress he claimed to be fighting. Why not wait and take a clear mandate. Everybody loves the kursi and AK is no different.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Victor » 28 Dec 2013 21:31

Atri wrote:ONE MAN STANDING - Anarchy faces India without Narendra Modi - By N.V. Subramanian
And if he is removed, India will be joined in anarchy. You can write off this nation for a whole generation.

On the dot article. With the west, pakis and Chinese desperately wanting him dead, the uphill task for Modi, BJP and all true Indians is to keep him alive at all costs even as he must move about openly for electioneering. Then, keep him alive for at least one full term. BJP should have its own NSG++ security apparatus for this. No other option.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Victor » 28 Dec 2013 21:35

Atish wrote:I love NaMo and hate Prashant Bhushan type leftists. But....

I had tears in my eyes when the young Rakhi Birla (actually from Valmiki tribe rather than a Pilani Birla), gave a full throated Vande Mataram and Bharat Mata ki Jai before taking oath of office. Maybe I was being fanciful but I detected passion and idealism in that voice. Kudos to AK 47 for decimating Congress, for bringing corruption center stage and not the least for solid people like Manish Sisodiya and Rakhi Birla.

NaMo is a blessing sure but AK is not a curse.

Atish.

Sorry but this sounds as naive as Rakhi must be. AK is a huge curse and he must be destroyed, let's make no mistake about this. The article above by N V Subramanian should be the cheat sheet on AK.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Lisa » 28 Dec 2013 21:47

RajeshA wrote:Need Help!

In one of the talk shows Meenakshi Lekhi produced a letter written by Sonia Gandhi to PM Dr. Manmohan Singh in 2005 "requesting" staying the transfer of Arvind Kejriwal from out of Delhi.

Would somebody be knowing where one can find a copy of this letter online?

TIA


Ask her?

http://meenakshilekhi.com/contact.html

P.S. I think the link is correct

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Gus » 28 Dec 2013 22:03

people seem to have more kujli than the so called kujliwal.

bjp has itself to blame for not seeing the situation as it was and get their house in order and start campaigning vigorously on the anti-corruption and pro-development plank in a unified voice.

blaming media, congress deep conspiracy, ford foundation, MNC, etc. I called it sour grapes before and I still think it is sour grapes.

The man is in the seat now. It will be quite easy to find out what he is about in a few weeks.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Atish » 28 Dec 2013 22:05

Be reasonable. NaMo and Lincoln and Gandhi have said similar stuff and circumstances forced a volte face. Yah of course time will tell, but your anti AK analysis sounds too much like CT and is not compelling.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 28 Dec 2013 22:11

Lisa wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Need Help!

In one of the talk shows Meenakshi Lekhi produced a letter written by Sonia Gandhi to PM Dr. Manmohan Singh in 2005 "requesting" staying the transfer of Arvind Kejriwal from out of Delhi.

Would somebody be knowing where one can find a copy of this letter online?

TIA


Ask her?

http://meenakshilekhi.com/contact.html

P.S. I think the link is correct


Thanks Lisa ji. I did send her a note. Let's see if she answers.
Last edited by RajeshA on 29 Dec 2013 00:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 28 Dec 2013 22:12

Atish wrote:Be reasonable. NaMo and Lincoln and Gandhi have said similar stuff and circumstances forced a volte face. Yah of course time will tell, but your anti AK analysis sounds too much like CT and is not compelling.


What he says is irrelevant. Words have no meaning.

The only interesting thing is his antecedents and who put him there where he is today!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby panduranghari » 28 Dec 2013 22:19

Atish wrote:Be reasonable. NaMo and Lincoln and Gandhi have said similar stuff and circumstances forced a volte face. Yah of course time will tell, but your anti AK analysis sounds too much like CT and is not compelling.


Really? Have you not been reading JohneeG's and Rudradev's posts, both recent ones and those from the time of ram leela ground agitation.

Only after you have read them, if you still feel that is the case, then you have a right to call everything CT.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Supratik » 28 Dec 2013 22:30

I am not proposing any CT. All I am saying is if the man is what his supporters are claiming why is he taking support from the same Congress he is claiming to be rotten corrupt.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 28 Dec 2013 22:33

RajeshA, is that a shreudian flip of the tongue? lisa == lilo?

---

I think AK is not a kujli to BJP or modi, but he is going to be the kujli for aam themsevles. we will see how this shapes in 6 months flat.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Gus » 28 Dec 2013 22:42

political expediency is not going to make him a villain to me. whatever his supposed backers etc, his "antecedents" etc, his lack of policies etc..

everything will be clear in a few weeks right? until then i won't be insulting delhi voters who voted for him.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Muppalla » 28 Dec 2013 22:51

muraliravi wrote:I think Media has comprehensively decided to back AAP/Khujliwal every day 24X7 in a bid to halt the modi wave. Modi is living in cuckoo's world if he thinks he can walk to the PM's chair ignoring AAP. It is a fact that there is a substantial middle class which is waiting to get swayed by AAP through our sold out media. If he thinks he can do rally after rally in india's rural hinterland and rise to power, he is mistaken. Media will give attention to AK whether modi attacks him or not. The only way modi can get his space back is by attacking AAP head on and reassuring his support base that he is their best option. What people are missing here is that while AK/AAP will have only impact for their party in 10-20 LS seats, they can make many bjp voters sit at home across india. That is exactly what the media is doing by 2 means.

1. Cut coverage for modi rallies, not talking about him as they used to.
2. Keep showing AAP clowns 24x7 and parrot cong = bjp without showing that AAP is in power in delhi with congress support.

These 2 things can dissuade enuf fence sitters who were considering giving BJP a chance in 2014 to stay back home.

If BJP decides to stay status quo and not do anything, they should be prepared for BJP = 140, cong = 120. AK as PM with congi/3rd front support.

Despite what some gung-ho people think, BJP's realistic max is 175-180 even if AK/AAP was never in the picture. It is exactly 35-40 seats where AAP will have an impact against BJP either directly like in delhi/haryana/mumbai/bangalore or indirectly in many smaller urban pockets like jaipur, nagpur, kanpur, lucknow etc.. where because of AAP, BJP voters will stay home or AAP may cut BJP votes even by 2-3% and help congress or another party win. If Namo is serious about winning the elections, he should know these 35-40 seats in and out.


ravi_g wrote:Exactly.

BJP has been crying all through town that about 160 seats have a SM impact. And now some probably want to believe Congress did not hear that. I mean what are the most corrupt people in history expected to be, stupids? Congress is infested with the corrupt because at least some of them have the brains to lead the public by their noses.


So much about numbers, arguments and AAP. First of all there is not a single analysis based (not spin based) articles or proof (real or analytical) that AAP can grab votes who would have gone to Modi-led BJP. I will put my neck out and say again any votes that go to AAP will not be those who would vote to Modi led BJP. If someone claims then it could be just a spin. The voters of AAP are virulently anti-BJP voters and these are educated ones and if you confront with truthful arguments they will not have anything to argue. They love to see BJP lose but they don't like to argue because they know they will lose arguments. They hope against hope to see BJP lose. These are pure and simple congress voters but want to vote out congress this time.

The minuscule swing (which is not hate-BJP crowd) that falls for AAP will not vote AAP in LS anywhere in India. All this knee jerk BJP should change this way and that way is unwarranted. It should just do what it is doing and not overly get distracted with this AAP to get this hate-BJP votes. My summary take is most AAP-voters are as good as Bangladeshi immigrant voters interm of BJP. The fence sitters are Modi voters.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 28 Dec 2013 22:52

Gus wrote:.. i won't be insulting delhi voters who also voted for him.

sorry to correct that.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby skaranam » 28 Dec 2013 22:55

ramana wrote:Can those three police officers be charged with lying to the SIT et al?


In addition to these 3 fellows, in a recent judgement of AP High Court - it recommended the return of Padma Shri that was awarded to Mohan Babu, Brahmanandam

Can something similar done to Teesta...but instead of asking for return..order the Central Govt. for a withdrawl

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Gus » 28 Dec 2013 22:56

Muppalla wrote:All this knee jerk BJP should change this way and that way is unwarranted. It should just do what it is doing and not overly get distracted with this AAP to get this hate-BJP votes. My summary take is most AAP-voters are as good as Bangladeshi immigrant voters interm of BJP. The fence sitters are Modi voters.


if bjp had tightened their game in delhi in time, they would have snagged the few more seats necessary to make it past the half-way mark to form govt on their own.

the major lesson to learn is that, and the steps to take should be in addressing that it does not happen again. other than that, it is carrying this campaign in the right way.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Patni » 28 Dec 2013 23:00

What should Modi speak at his rallies? BJP turns to cyber volunteers for ideas

With more than 250 rallies planned in the run-up to the Lok Sabha polls, BJP prime minister candidate Narendra Modi is turning to online volunteers’ suggestions on the issues he should take up and highlight to connect with the masses.

For his rally at Ranchi on Sunday, which will be his first public appearance after he got a clean chit from a Gujarat court in connection with the 2002 riots, Modi has been flooded with suggestions.

He has been advised to talk about power problem, dearth of colleges and universities in the state for higher education, slow industrialisation despite the state being rich in minerals, tourism and tribal welfare.

Jharkhand, which has 14 Lok Sabha seats, holds big promise as well a major challenge for BJP as it had won eight seats in 2009 as against one in 2004.

One-time rebel leader and former CM Babulal Marandi has spurned the BJP's efforts to rope in his party into the NDA.

Marandi's Jharkhand Vikas Morcha-Prajatantrik (JVM-P) reached an electoral understanding with JD(U) chief Sharad Yadav and Bihar chief minister Nitish Kumar last week to jointly contest the Lok Sabha elections in Jharkhand.

But BJP leaders count on Modi's "direct appeal" to woo voters. BJP's national IT head Arvind Gupta told HT that volunteers associated with Mission272+ have been providing inputs to Modi for his speeches at major rallies since some time now.

“Modi is receptive to the suggestions posted online and on-ground volunteering platform that serves as crowdsourcing to help the BJP in its mission," he said.

Gupta said Modi implemented several of these ideas in his previous rallies, including the ones in Mumbai and Dehradun recently. He said, "We provide a platform where volunteers can collaborate, contribute and campaign crowdsourcing ideas and solutions."


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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ramana » 28 Dec 2013 23:04

All this knee jerk BJP should change this way and that way is unwarranted.


I think that BJP should be more proactive and put to rest internal squabbles that led to wrong decisions and later corrections. I think this led to the short fall in the half a dozen seats that could have been won and spared everyone the agony here and on twitter.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby JohnTitor » 28 Dec 2013 23:08

Gus wrote:
Muppalla wrote:All this knee jerk BJP should change this way and that way is unwarranted. It should just do what it is doing and not overly get distracted with this AAP to get this hate-BJP votes. My summary take is most AAP-voters are as good as Bangladeshi immigrant voters interm of BJP. The fence sitters are Modi voters.


if bjp had tightened their game in delhi in time, they would have snagged the few more seats necessary to make it past the half-way mark to form govt on their own.

the major lesson to learn is that, and the steps to take should be in addressing that it does not happen again. other than that, it is carrying this campaign in the right way.

Look at it this way. If BJP had majority, then AAP would sit in opposition and complain and whine all the time. Now that they are in govt, some of their support will erode because people will see them as they are, which they wouldn't if they were in opposition. Let AK show the people where he will get 700l free water, free bijli etc. Their acts will be watched carefully all the way till elections. They will try to play the "congress didnt let us do it" card very soon, this is what should be countered by BJP (eg: by showing that it could have been done without support because its an executive decision etc)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 28 Dec 2013 23:18

ONLEE 3 things for Modi

- Anti corruption counter agenda, plan, design, hows etc.
- Augmented growth model keeping Gujarat as base line
- Targeted plan for each state - separately identified, clearly marked programs for growth.

Areas of concern keeping the above 3 aspects:
- infrastructure (road, rail etc)
- utilities: water, electricity, gas, data, sanitation
- reduced goverance, and imporved private participation via regualtory mechanism and policies
- reinvented tax structure, reduce RE corruption, flat rates, abolish certain tax regime, evil structures etc.
- public policies for removing quota system - focus on economically weaker section onlee

shoudl be more than enough.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Victor » 28 Dec 2013 23:19

Gus wrote:political expediency is not going to make him a villain to me. whatever his supposed backers etc, his "antecedents" etc, his lack of policies etc..

everything will be clear in a few weeks right? until then i won't be insulting delhi voters who voted for him.

Not so simple. They are going into very dangerous territory and they need to be stopped.

AAP is a more dangerous version of the NAC. The latter is blatantly undemocratic but can and will be thrown out by the democratic process. AAP is stealthily undemocratic and is looking to destroy democracy itself and replace it with easily engineered "participatory democracy". This could very well be a well choreographed color revolution in the making.

The first fling was to distribute 25 lakh forms (at taxpayer expense), probably only in the pro-AAP neighborhoods. That was followed by the SMS "vote" from the "aam Delhite" that "overwhelmingly" supported a tie up with congress. So 1 lakh "yes" votes from pro-AAP people spoke for the whole of Delhi. What stops AAP from harvesting these and future "good" phone numbers and using them to get anything they want done in future? Simply send out a request to support XYZ in Delhi and BAM! it's done. Full deniability and no culpability if things go badly--just blame it on Delhites--but full credit if things go well! Make sure the right mohallas get free water and electricity and get MSM to cover it as fulfillment of promise. This is NAC on steroids and pure anarchy.

Hopefully Delhites can see through this dangerous game but I'm not so sure. AAP will focus on useless but universally hated stuff like ministers' red lights, sirens and bungalows to give a feeling of justice and retribution to the common man and win their trust. BJP must go hammer and tong against this smoke and mirror show to unmask it and show Delhi how they are being taken for a ride. Since AAP has already been given the mandate to govern, why do they need further mandates from SMS? And if this "participatory democracy" is so great, why do we need AAP at all? BJP must insist loudly that AAP do all the heavy lifting by itself and not try to push the responsibility back on Delhites with this bogus model.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Atish » 28 Dec 2013 23:39

Yah I and Rakhi Birla and all public is all naive. Mahabharata and Ramayana based high fundas are legit only. Innovative political tactics and tools are signs of anarchy. And only AAP has an extreme nutcase section among all political parties. And AK 47 and company either must have an insidious agenda or dumb enough to follow somebody else's.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Muppalla » 28 Dec 2013 23:53

Atish wrote:Yah I and Rakhi Birla and all public is all naive. Mahabharata and Ramayana based high fundas are legit only. Innovative political tactics and tools are signs of anarchy. And only AAP has an extreme nutcase section among all political parties. And AK 47 and company either must have an insidious agenda or dumb enough to follow somebody else's.


Why did Ramayana and Mahabharata come into reference on this discussion?

What are those innovative political tactics? Political tactics is a good word and right one too :). Collaborate with those against whom you fight and make enemy of someone who is not in the government? Criticize BJP more than Congress is also innovative na? Why did AK did not reach out to BJP but was able to easily reachout INC? Let us assume that AK is great and why did he think that INC is better to deal with as compared to BJP? Is it because BJP believe in Ramayana and Mahabharat as oppose to the "innovative political tactics"

This is exactly what I wrote in my previous post. Beating around the bushes is the hallmark of AAP and its supporters. It is very clear that this voting block is virulently anti-BJP stuff and in the end would have found some bucket instead of BJP. AAP is charming and hence they took this bucket. Nothing more and nothing less.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby apoorv » 29 Dec 2013 00:00

The good thing about AAP is that it will force BJP to select doers and not Dilli Billis. Vasundhara Raje is acting very humble in this tenure compared to last time when she was Maharani rather than for people. Some of this has come from her loss last time, NaMO effect and some from how people have voted this time.
They have shunned doles, arrogance and corruption. I think this is good news for NaMo as well.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby VikramS » 29 Dec 2013 00:01

Atish:

You are missing the point.

There is a LOT of anger among people in India; and for the first time it has made the formerly apolitical class deeply involved in politics.

And AK is hitting all the right notes to hit those chords.

Make no mistake, this is a very sophisticated campaign being run by people with a LOT of experience in managing public perceptions.

Take the example of Bharat Mata. YY got the Mother India image removed from the IAC and later went on to say that IAC was being run by Hinudvadis. AK had no problem courting the maulvi who put an award on Tasleema Nasreen. AAP's stand on Batla House and Kashmir are well known.

But as soon as he gets a share of power, they start talking Vande Mataram, and Bharat Mata ki Jai.

This is a classic case of running with the hares, and hunting with the hounds.

He is making just the right noises to appeal to different constituencies.

And I personally have no doubts that he will do a decent job in Delhi.

But the end result:

NaMo will not become PM; or
Will have not get a free hand to run.

That is all the Congress needs. As Jairam Ramesh put it 2014 is NaMo's only shot; Congress will be back later.

We all love the idealism of the AAP, but it will come with deep costs.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Victor » 29 Dec 2013 00:15

VikramS wrote:Make no mistake, this is a very sophisticated campaign being run by people with a LOT of experience in managing public perceptions.

Bingo. Too sophisticated, too experienced and also too expensive for this rag-tag bunch of do gooders to have cobbled together in less than a year.

This is a very slick ad and it didn't come cheap. It only attacks the BJP.
Last edited by Victor on 29 Dec 2013 00:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 29 Dec 2013 00:19

Atish wrote:Yah I and Rakhi Birla and all public is all naive. Mahabharata and Ramayana based high fundas are legit only. Innovative political tactics and tools are signs of anarchy. And only AAP has an extreme nutcase section among all political parties. And AK 47 and company either must have an insidious agenda or dumb enough to follow somebody else's.


What is dangerous about AK is not his appeasement to Islamic extremists, or Kashmiri separatists or Naxals or whatever. What makes him dangerous is the machinery, the resources that stands behind him, and these are all foreign controlled.

Read this and then tell me, that Kejriwal is simply an aam rabbit with a dark mustache trying to help people.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Gus » 29 Dec 2013 00:22

VikramS wrote:And I personally have no doubts that he will do a decent job in Delhi.

But the end result:

NaMo will not become PM; or
Will have not get a free hand to run.

That is all the Congress needs. As Jairam Ramesh put it 2014 is NaMo's only shot; Congress will be back later.


i strongly doubt that.

delhi is a unique case. a stage where he already had name recognition, volunteer base, urban population with demands and aspirations that he was able to capture and project as "i can fix this" and most of all, a chance to focus his resources from all over country in one place for one time.

this can hardly happen in more than a handful of metro LS constituencies in a general election in the whole country.

in fact, some of those seats may even come at the cost of conparty or regional and commie parties. so i am not overly worried. and there is a good chance that they will nominate people like that NSG guy at delhi.

delhi apart, i actually see a net positive for the nation in that it will force bjp to not take it for granted and actually post good candidates and be more sharper. this might even give NaMo a chance to get rid of old weed, like that vijay goel.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 29 Dec 2013 00:24

so, let us list the top 5 contenders for 2014 pm-ship. does anyone think kejriwal qualifies?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Gus » 29 Dec 2013 00:27

and if, as some here argue, bjp manages to lose LS elections to aap on the back of media, mnc, ford foundation, congress shenanigans etc etc, then they fully deserve to lose and modi does not deserve to become pm. you get the cup after you win the match against all players.

this is akin to complaining that a wildcard has been given to some player and i am complaining that i won't play because i may lose to him, but hey i am a great player and please give me the cup because i deserve it.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 29 Dec 2013 00:30

Gus wrote:and if, as some here argue, bjp manages to lose LS elections to aap on the back of media, mnc, ford foundation, congress shenanigans etc etc, then they fully deserve to lose and modi does not deserve to become pm. you get the cup after you win the match against all players.

this is akin to complaining that a wildcard has been given to some player and i am complaining that i won't play because i may lose to him, but hey i am a great player and please give me the cup because i deserve it.


If we are all dissing AK here, then we are all learning how to diss him better, and isn't dissing a rival not part of the political process?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Gus » 29 Dec 2013 00:39

but calling him kujliwal, fordriwal etc is not going to serve any useful purpose, imho. if we can spend more time in tracking his promises against delivery and do our best to propagate that to voters, that would be more helpful in weaning away people like my friend who went to delhi on a 3 week vacation to campaign for aap. my goal is to avoid that happening again if aap puts candidate in his area. if i call him kujliwal and fordriwal, i lose any ability to change him as he won't take me seriously.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 29 Dec 2013 00:47

spot on gus! no doubt about the name calling that goes around on the net that equals the mental model of indic-dork media. we have this bandwagon brains that easily latches on to join in to bash someone without any reasons.. just because, i have seen and adopted one party or person.

good politics comes only when we look at problems and not persona, name, type, jaat, caste, etc.. but how they resolves issues. modi or kejriwal should demonstrate and show the world what they mean. people should have the brains to understand how these politicians come and for what they stand, and how they will deliver. what are their plans, and how are they going to execute it?

there is no system in the world that cannot exists without a design. similarly, aap or bjp can design to show what they have. if bjp has shown corruption within their setup, they can't just remove it by calling someone kujli or mogli wala.

i think aap will definitely dent into any party, if corruption is not a plank within them. i like that.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Suraj » 29 Dec 2013 00:52

Very good points, Gus. Emotionally attacking AK will drain his opponents' energy and just make it easier for him.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby VikramS » 29 Dec 2013 01:00

Gus:
Agree with you that there has to be a better strategy to counter AK.
And I agree that the idea of AAP will be good for the country as a whole.
The problem is timing.

There are about 30-40 seats in urban India where AAP will exert significant influence. That can make or break NaMo.

And regarding top 5 contenders: It does not matter if AK is a viable contender or not. There are enough people who are fed up with the system who may vote for him simply to express their disgust.

Suraj
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Suraj » 29 Dec 2013 01:04

The problem with idealistic naive leaders is that they quickly run into 'the system'. Happened to both RG and VPS in the 1980s. There's only so much gestures like removing red lights on cars and transferring officials on day 1 will do. AK cannot change the economics that stand in the way of his populism, nor the glacial pace at which the system responds, overnight. It is best if his energy is spent on fighting the system to little avail, especially when the approach involves less finesse and more blunt hits as a means of keeping his base enthused.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Prasad » 29 Dec 2013 01:09

Thing is, he isn't going to be judged 5 years down the line. The LS elections will be here in a jiffy. And AAP doing a few high decibel actions amplified by the media is enough for them to make a big dent in the LS elections. What they do afterward is immaterial for modi/bjp.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Saral » 29 Dec 2013 01:13

RajeshA wrote:nsriram ji,

There are many Naxals, Jihadist appeasers in India. One more does not make a difference. The resistance from many Bharatiyas to Arvind Kejriwal is because we are simply damn certain that he is a trojan horse of outside and dynasty interests who have pledged endless NGO and Media support, as well as acquiescence of current secular establishment, Muslim and jhuggi-jhoprhi vote-banks. His "idealism" and ideology are not much of interest.


Rajesh-ji : My take is that AK is an accidental politician, by virtue of the time he is in and his Delhi based community activism. He is by personality an idealist, and does not have a strong ideology. What he has said in the past can be changed very easily. He is a smart fellow and persistent. He is likeable. He is a real threat, long term to Congress and BJP. There is no grand conspiracy here unless you want to impute one to the people supporting the Anna movement. People are fed up with the Congress and nature abhors a vacuum.

BJP needs an image overhaul and they have barely begun that. Without NaMo, at the national level BJP is nearly a zero and not perceived differently from Congress and other parties. Their website and media handling is primitive as are some of their older leaders. They should not cede this space to the likes of AK. But they will have to better than cite letters from SG from 5 years back as evidence. Also as AK broadens his appeal, he will need to confront realities and cannot openly go against established foreign policy stance of GoI. I agree that AK will not have much impact outside NCR in 2014 but the situation will be very different in 2019 and AK (if he is alive by then and not bumped off by all the people he is pissing off on a daily basis) will very likely be a genuine national leader.

Sometimes one has to shed biases and distinguish "what is" from "what ought to be". AK is for real, AK is smart, AK is likeable and is here for the long run. Sure AK may be bad news for India as a nation. Or he might not and become more of a centrist. We cannot say. A year from now, we will be able to say with much more certainty. The media is building him up because he is interesting and different. To see what I mean refer to the Rahul Kanwal interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... YNvJaAQO3Y He says that he has found "religion" in the past 3 years. So what is happening is that the middle classes are finding a voice and projecting it on to people like AK.

NaMo will need to talk about AK or what AAP represents sooner or later. He needs to rebuild the BJP based on his ideals and not shy away with BS about respect for elders. And do it in a sophisticated way. Not like branding AAP as "right-wing Maoists" as Gadkari is quoted as doing. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/asse ... 061025.cms And crying that the support by Congress was brokered. Huh, this is politics where deals are brokered. AK is a pragmatist and will do what is needed to achieve his vision.

disclaimer: I am a fan of NaMo and just began to look up info on AK.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 29 Dec 2013 01:55

nsriram wrote:
RajeshA wrote:nsriram ji,

There are many Naxals, Jihadist appeasers in India. One more does not make a difference. The resistance from many Bharatiyas to Arvind Kejriwal is because we are simply damn certain that he is a trojan horse of outside and dynasty interests who have pledged endless NGO and Media support, as well as acquiescence of current secular establishment, Muslim and jhuggi-jhoprhi vote-banks. His "idealism" and ideology are not much of interest.


Rajesh-ji : My take is that AK is an accidental politician, by virtue of the time he is in and his Delhi based community activism. He is by personality an idealist, and does not have a strong ideology. What he has said in the past can be changed very easily. He is a smart fellow and persistent. He is likeable. He is a real threat, long term to Congress and BJP. There is no grand conspiracy here unless you want to impute one to the people supporting the Anna movement. People are fed up with the Congress and nature abhors a vacuum.


This is where we disagree.

Why would Sonia ask PM in 2005 not to transfer Kejriwal out of Delhi? Why would Ford Foundation fund his NGO? Why would High Command so willingly let Kejriwal run away with their vote-banks? Why would the MSM so obliged to the dynasty dote over this man?

I respect Anna and I believe he meant well. But Anna was simply used as a launching pad to launch Arvind Kejriwal and AAP. If that were not the case, MSM would not have given Anna any camera time at all.

The only constant is change, because change is what traps people in hope! And this is something I am not pulling out of any musharraf but something all puppeteers would know. Congress had run its course. It was time to introduce the new white hope, and so AAP was created.

vera_k
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vera_k » 29 Dec 2013 02:04

That the Hazare movement and later AAP was created for the Delhi elections was said on BRF a long time ago. That much has come true. The net effect is going to be to protect the Congress from any investigation and possible prosecution.


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