Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

krishnan
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krishnan » 01 Jan 2014 08:38

Nisha Singh ‏@Nisha_Hindu 20m

★ #Modi didn’t apologize for post-Godhra riots: Chidambaram | Your Mom hasn't apologized for your birth too★
:lol:

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 01 Jan 2014 09:45

Narayana Rao wrote:Veerabhadra Singh in HP in fresh corruption and summoned to meet mafia queen. Interesting situation wherein pappu need ask for CM head thereby confirmation of corruption or face the music of all talk from back-end but no action.


Cong needs Virabhadra more than vice versa in HP. Its not some MH like situation wherein Cong High (on) Command (performances) could change CMs on a rotational basis essentially at whim...

The hill states (HP, UKD and Jammu region too) tended to trend heavily UPA in last LS polls. Would be fitting if they become Cong mukt this time round. Apart from K'taka, I see *no* state where the INC could hope to better its 2009 performance. And if and when NM takes over the PMO, the INC will probably fracture and splinter into a dozen different groups when the agencies of state start digging up their closet skeletons by the ton.... (Wonder if the approver laws that existed during the Raj are still on the books today, would be great to get congis squeal on one another)

Anyway, another passing ramble. Jai ho and other std disclaimers apply.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 01 Jan 2014 09:53

This, coming from Mehbooba mufti of J&K's softly-separatist PDP means something, eh?

While some here are busy seeing sAAPs everywhere, professional politicos for whom people's pulse etc is a bread-and-butter matter are giving away unsubtle hints as to which way the winds of change are blowing... what?

Some in J&K feel Modi can take 'tough, positive' decisions: Mehbooba (IE)

"Modi has a mixed response (in the Valley). Some people don't like him, mainly because J&K is a Muslim majority state — not that there haven't been communal riots before Gujarat. Riots have taken place before Gujarat riots and after that too — in Assam and more recently in Muzaffarnagar. But when it comes to Gujarat, people saw the pictures and can't forget them," she said, speaking at the Idea Exchange programme at The Indian Express.

"But there is another section of people which probably thinks that maybe Modi is the one who will have such authority that he will be able to take certain tough decisions (regarding Kashmir issue). Decisions like Vajpayee took. Otherwise no other prime minister has ever taken any tough decision. When militancy was at its peak, he (Vajpayee) went to Lahore on the bus yatra. The same day, seven Hindu boys were killed... Even after Kargil, he invited the Pakistan President. And then Parliament (attack) happened," recalled Mufti.

"I think people have this impression that if Modi comes, he may be able to take certain tough decisions, maybe positive ones, because he did say at a rally in Jammu that he was going to follow Vajpayee's policies. But this impression is not shared by everybody, just a section. The general impression is that he is divisive," she said.

On the rise of the Aam Aadmi Party (AAP), Mufti said, "Even the Kashmir Valley is celebrating this change of people who are not conventional politicians winning. Basically, in the Valley, the mainstream national parties are seen as untouchable because, firstly, they are seen as bad, and secondly, they are seen as being connected to Delhi. So, I think this example of AAP may make people change their mind... People may start believing that it (politics) is not so bad, it can have a positive impact too."


Hmmm. So if you think NM will give away KV, forgettaboutit. He'll certainly seek to unite PoK with KV but within Indian borders... or bust. All the ABV rhetoric can be awfully selective when it comes to implementation... Technically NM speaks highly of MKG too. Doesn't mean he'll ditch industry and take to charkha...

Anyway, no PR is bad PR. Good that there are folks discussing (even if dissing and cussing only) NM in the valley. NM has tried to make inroads into the Gujjars, shias and bakarwals in and around the valley and that effort may be showing fruit, hence this polite outburst from Mehboobaba..

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Muppalla » 01 Jan 2014 10:03

Hari garu, NaMo phenomenon has reached every corner of India. Don't be surprised to see BJP winning even in SeemaAndhra. JK winning is no surprise at all.

Happy new year to everyone and let us all hope for NaMo's India.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ramana » 01 Jan 2014 11:07

Happy new ywar for allI india rakshaks

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby muraliravi » 01 Jan 2014 11:18

Hari Seldon wrote:The hill states (HP, UKD and Jammu region too) tended to trend heavily UPA in last LS polls. Would be fitting if they become Cong mukt this time round.


Hari Sir,

This is the region where I am most worried about BJP's performance in 2014. Munna has warned us multiple times on this front. I agree there is a Namo wave, but I dont quite see the effect of Namo in this region. Even demographically OBC pop is less from J&K thru HP, UTT, Punjab, Delhi. Haryana has diff dynamics. I am not saying Namo wave is a OBC wave, but it helps.

J&K - 6 seats. INC last time won both seats in the Jammu area. BJP may wrest one seat from them.

Himachal - 4 seats. BJP did well last time won 3 seats. The state usually alternates. Congress will retain Shimla and Mandi for sure. BJP will win Hamirpur. Kangra will decide if BJP gets 1 or 2 seats here.

Punjab - 13 seats. I am worried will be an understatement. Theoretically BJP/SAD should sweep as congress swept last time. But, there should not doubt left in anyone's mind that Congress and its B teams will go to any extent to stop Modi. Congress BSP alliance can literally push BJP to just 1-2 seats. On top of this they already have huge issues with internal bickering and problems with SAD.

Uttaranchal - 5 seats. This state BJP will do well this time, they may win all 5 seats.

Delhi - 7 seats. Frankly, I dont know much about the city. But lets look at it differently. I really Doubt BJP can push much beyond its 33-35% vote share in the city. At best 40%. Be rest assured that in a bid to stop BJP, with active media collusion and daily drama baazi, Congress will ensure that its VOTE bank (Muslims, bangladeshis etc.. ) who gave them that 25% vote will vote AAP. So BJP will be lucky to win 2 seats.

Haryana - 10 seats. I dont know abt INLD or HJC. But BJP will struggle again here. Their best bet was urban areas, again AAP will try and screw BJP in gurgaon and one more seat maybe Ambala. Lucky if they break ice here.

So overall 45 seats here, BJP is staring at 10 seats approx, pretty close to what Munna ji has been warning all the time.

Now what can they do to fix this. Arun Jaitley was planning on contesting from Jammu, I say go ahead create a good strategy and win. Stop all internal sabotage in HP and UTT and win at least 7 seats in both state put together. They cant do much in punjab if INC goes with BSP.
Get alliance right in Haryana and get 2 seats.

No for Delhi, Namo has 2 rallies in Delhi Jan 5 and again I think Jan 10 or 11. Take the damn fordiwal heads on. Expose the AAP-Cong bhai bhai. Tell people that I believe in putting more power plants and investing in cheaper sources of power than robbing taxpayers and creating fiscal deficits. Take him on I say. Modi should not speak of Congress in Delhi at all, they are not ur opposition there,

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Arjun » 01 Jan 2014 11:21

Happy New Year to everyone...hopefully we all get to see an India that is rid of the Dynasty in the upcoming elections !!

I am hoping for a Modi PM-ship and AAP replacing the Congress as the 2nd national party after decimation of the latter.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20317 » 01 Jan 2014 11:24

Agnimitra wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tqaLMOgPH0

[youtube]-tqaLMOgPH0[/ tube]

A must-watch: Kejriwal explains how the old Delhi Government had approached the World Bank to take a loan to fund a project to privatize Delhi's water supply. The consultants overseeing the project were to have been paid 108 crores per year at a time when the Delhi Water Board's budget was 163 crores. (Just as a point of comparison, it only costs 160 crores per year to supply water free to all of Delhi). Kejriwal estimates that the cost of water would have gone up 9 times in Delhi had that project not been stopped by activists.


Garu, some years back these high number calculations were being mentioned in the MSM. And you can never tell which side is pulling and pushing you to what direction easily. If I am not wrong the base for these claims was a Replacement Cost of Water Distribution Infrastructure. The figures were mentioned to stupefy people - something like 75K Keyrore for full replacement in Delhi alone.

And this does not in any way take anything away from the fact that tariff has increased >9 times (actually 11 times) even when the DJB added only 1 MGD of STP (Sewage Treatment Plants) and between 2007-12 spent only Rs.1634.8 crore and could not utilise grant in aid under JNNURM 2010-12 (100 percent) and 2011-12 (51 per cent).

Search for this : 'The current water tariff rate in Delhi is 9 times that of Mumbai' and you will be surprised about the shift of initiative.

Also this is circa 2008 shows what BJP in Delhi was saying :

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/newdelhi/bjp-releases-populist-manifesto-for-delhi/article1-352484.aspx
The Congress government's pet project BRT Corridor and agreement with private power companies are other major issues which will be reviewed by a BJP dispensation.


http://www.vkmalhotra.org/delhi-state-manifesto-2008.html
Water and electricity scarcity would be removed. Safe drinking water would be supplied to all areas.


http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-bjp-releases-populist-manifesto-for-delhi-1207600
The BJP will probe the scams in the department besides launching a scheme for providing cheap electricity for the economically disadvantaged sections.


FYI BJP already has much better schemes which are much more contextually relevant on the electricity and water front in Chattisgarh and Gujarat. I mean how do you explain Dilli with a higher per capita income hogging the subsidies when other states with lesser per capita need the subsidies.

The BJP agenda has been stolen and they could not do anything about it.

The reality also is that in BJP states the lowest strata pays and then the highest strata is asked to improve upon their contribution. OTOH in Delhi on the water front the waterless still depend on tankers while the the waterfull are going to waste it.

Anyhow the electricity is even more of a scam. How does a reduction from 2.70 to 1.95 INR per unit till 200 units become 50% reduction?

Anyhow BJP sympathizers are getting taken in by a spurious propaganda which has many variants:
(1) AAP chaap populism is good because its a democracy and AAP is the one that got the mandate for this.
(2) All political parties are corrupt. Lets give AAP a chance.
(3) AAP is a B-Team of BJP itself to break up Congress. Please support it.

The common feature for all these is that BJP voter should not be voting BJP. Esp. if he is in the cities. WT_


.......................................................

Reality:
1) The reality is NaMo cannot win if BJP cannot win. BJP cannot win if BJP = = Congress. A two bit hustler is peddling this theory. Peddled at just the time when its lighter version (lets allow him to work since it is good only) is also being propagated by his tolerators and when infact his supporters actually and actively use this to fool the die-light supporters of BJP.

2) BJP will need at least as much votes and at least as many seats as are necessary to form a government else NaMo stays in Gujarat or worse still gets forced to make up for the campaign support he has taken from various quarters. And nobody among the voters controls that.


Ramana garu once taught me how theories get classified among BRF/intelligent people. Something to which I agreed, proving that I am also intelligent enough :)

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5689&p=1506480&hilit=theory#p1506480

A Conspiracy Theory on BR is thrown about when an new theory is used to explain the facts which is contrary to popular perception. Misfortunately for India, the Conspiracy Theories on BRF have been found to be true. For example YSR's helicopter was accidented and not crashed in a rain storm.

A Chankian Theory is used to expalin GOI motives or acts contrary to expected normal behavior. For example MMS did not try to respond with military strikes to 26/11 as war is not the best option and the world powers do want to trigger that to slow down Indian economy after the 2008 meltdown. This would be a Chankian Theory.

A Chunkian Theory is a ullo ka patta theory to explain the GOI motives. For example that MMS had greater good of India when he accepted the Paki accusations of Indian support for Baloch rebels. That one is a Chunkian Theory


IOW

Conspriracy Theory – Theory that explains well a compromise with an unnecessary evil, but is not popular. Has good probability of it being true. This would basically conclude that AAP + AK is a B Team of Congress just like NOTA and several others. An excuse not to allow votes to fall into BJP kitty. This should ideally make those of BRF bent of mind to play their role in getting the country behind NaMo and avoid bhool-bhoolayias.

Chankian Theory – Theory that explain well a compromise in the face of a necessary evil and is understood as such. Implying that the BRF and the outside world are in sync (Politicians may however be playing politics on this point). This would basically conclude that AAP is a new entrant that must be given a chance in a democracy. This should ideally make those of BRF bent of mind to enable people to stay the course.

Chunkian Theory – Theory that is designed to make everybody see only the positive points while eventually getting the subscriber accident-ed. Usually evidence is ignored and this theory gets played up. Often uses acts of omissions to justify acts of commission.


The facets of AAP+AK can be deciphered as either Conspiracy Theory or as Chankian Theory. All of you people are intelligent enough to be able to assess and I am rather sure that all of you are honest enough to eventually allow the weight of evidence to dictate your assessment.


Now to get the obvious out of the way (Chunkian Theory). I write this to provide a template around which you can assess the lighter version also. In my view this is necessary because a lighter version of the same is also being supported here on BRF. We SDRE’s kept tolerating this hustler when he damaged for good 1 Crore people of this country and it would be wrong to let that happen to 4-5 Crore more people in this country.

Let me concoct a story:

Nagpur saw that Congress support comes from willing and unwilling. Nagpur realized that there is Bharat where BJP is strong but only because of traditional value systems remaining/being strong. Then there is an India where traditions have become embarrassing/irrelevant and people may or may not like Sanghis. As a result Nagpur got NaMo to talk to BR and got the anti-corruption drive started in Bharat. Nagpur also got Gadkari to pull Anna ji’s strings and got him to cater to the nationalistic yearnings of India that is Bharat.

Thus AAP was created by Gadkari to provide a jhunjhuna to the yuppie (obvious ID) & puppies (in MSM speak this is euphemism for poorer & vulnerable sections in need of all round support) of India who keep voting for the chiknas in congress. Why do they vote for Congress - because they are either dumb or too occupied to notice that they are being robbed in broad daylight.

Evidence in support:
1) BJP – The Fact that BJP got more seats in Delhi when AAP is in the picture despite the fact that BJP lost 3% votes.
2) Voter Populations – The Fact that most AAP walas are actually from the above stated classes (notice how the suspect populations got willingly or willy-nilly hoodwinked).
3) Gadkari – Gadkari was forced to move to NaMo camp when that was a suspect case earlier + D4 is on record for saying that allowing AAP the leeway is just plain wrong.
4) NaMo – NaMo got the Bharat behind BJP even if the India that is Bharat will take 6 more months. NaMo successful per RSS standards.
5) RSS – Vijay Goel of the D4 persuasion got stumped. Instead in walked Harshvardhan of RSS persuasion.

Problems:
1) BJP – Lost vote share, lost power, lost prestige and gained only a stolen harvest. All the while AAP and AK lied and then lied some more to keep advancing their agenda while they kept hurting BJP.
2) Voter Populations – the yuppies & puppies are our own people. If finally despite everything, they are coming towards NaMo then there should be no reason why they should not be voting BJP considering NaMo can win only when BJP can win. What justification remains of these voters taking the circuitous way & kicking themselves in the wrong place.
3) Gadkari – himself got bitten by his own creation even while damaad ji is not in any kind of difficulty. Rather damaad ji is in an infinitely more comfortable position. Does not make Gadkari seem smart yeh?
4) NaMo – he lost so many of the voters that were prepped by NaMo’s incessant attacks that these people ended up in the AAP camp (1/3rd of AAP supportbase or around 5% vote share). Dead loss to NaMo’s efforts. Today the hardcore NaMo supporters have a new option.Agreed?
5) RSS – Presumed to be smarter than the smartest and more honest than the honest.

Justifications for the observed problems (The real Chunkian phase):
1) BJP – courted this state of affairs to ensure that those who voted today for a diversion would get wiser and vote for BJP to get NaMo into the driving seat.
2) Voter Populations – they will lose belief in their own ability to affect politics and will now change horses, back to BJP just in time for GE-14.
3) Gadkari – Great sacrifice guy. Nirupa Roy of Sangh Parivar. Deserves a better treatment than what a losing prabhari does. Probably he deserves more respect than a successful NaMo or a successful Raman Singh.
4) NaMo – Will lose 2014 but will get 2019 or even earlier than that perhaps. He will get the two birds in the bush if he is smart enough to let go of the one in the hand.
5) RSS – Is smarter than the smartest and more honest than the honest and they control everything. The planning, the execution and the results.

Now the justifications seem even more difficult to counter than the problem itself. Truly Chunkian.

Threat:
Tolerators of AAP have nothing in support except the fact that he got votes. They want to turn it into a Democracy vs. Rationality. When in fact the reality is that AAP policies will hurt AAP voters mostly, something their silly pride will not allow them to admit. Non AAP voters who do not believe in their silly agenda will get forced into it by the unholy alliance where a party comes to power cussing another party and then both sit right back in power together.

My view:
Whether you love AAP or hate AAP. It is a party without any karmic balance in support of its claims. They are more chikna than the original chiknas themselves. They have done nothing to earn your respect nor do they do anything today that they should. Quite to the contrary they are entirely disrespectful of the people’s mandate which was anti-Congress for sure even if not pro-BJP. This toleration-woleration is ok since that is an valid content of a democracy. But do not stop opposing them since they are the latest pied piper. They must be opposed even if they are some Chunkian outgrowth of too much dandruff in Nagpur. More so in that case actually, because if you do not, then you stand a real chance of not seeing NaMo in the hot seat ever. AAP is a yard-sale party. Move on, BJP, Congress, SP, Kommies all are trying to or are already in it to control it. But they do not. Hell even AK does not control it, hence his consistent falling out with old his colleagues and hogging of all decisions and decision making powers.


............................

Request Mod devtas to advise if I can post this in State Elections thread also.

.........

sorry for too many edits. Thoda likha hai, jyada samajna. Thoda galat bhi likha hai muaf karna.
Last edited by member_20317 on 01 Jan 2014 12:13, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 01 Jan 2014 11:24

Heard some chatter on twitter saying that calendars for 1947 and 2014 'are the same'. Dunno in what sense but may some constellations align again and deliver India liberty 2.0 from the imperiously imperial C-system... onlee.

Modi (NaMo) news ‏@pragnik 1h
TamilNadu BJP's "Modi in every Household" is catching attention from Media & Public at large

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby a_bharat » 01 Jan 2014 12:56

Arjun wrote:I am hoping for a Modi PM-ship and AAP replacing the Congress as the 2nd national party after decimation of the latter.

+1

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby niran » 01 Jan 2014 14:35

@mullaravi saar,
you left out Baba Ramdev from the equation in Haryana
his following is mucho larger than AAp, the Baba is a jat to boot
and during the Ramlila fiasco more than half were from Haryana
the AAp inc alliance in dilli gona cost them add that the insult heapeed on
Gen.V.K. Singh both by inc and an aapturd gona take away defense family votes
in Himanchal veerbhadra Singh will be history remember land is the most coveted there
and people do not tolerate any hanky panky remotely related to land.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Manish_Sharma » 01 Jan 2014 14:39

VikramS wrote:Posted that Firstpost water article on FB. Got a lot of positive comments and multiple shares.
Feel a bit better now; all is not lost.

Which article is that?


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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Virendra » 01 Jan 2014 15:06

I believe this one Dhananjay ji, but I'll let Vikram confirm. Online Media itself is such a big world these days that it is easy to get lost.
I keep saving stuff for a 'later read', and never get ot it :P
http://www.firstpost.com/politics/why-a ... 14785.html

Edit: duhh ... the same one as hanumadu posted :D

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Agnimitra » 01 Jan 2014 16:11

ravi_g ji, thanks for that post.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20317 » 01 Jan 2014 16:20

Some of these links will have the names of Shiela Dixit, Aruna Roy, AK-47 and several such people.

http://m.ibnlive.com/blogs/vivianfernandes/1878/63975/arvind-kejriwal-and-mccarthyism-of-the-uncorrupted.html
But Kejriwal put up a spirited fight against the move. Invoking the right to information, he reportedly secured about 4,000 pages of documents, which apparently showed that the World Bank had 'arm-twisted' the government into appointing a consultant (PWC India) for a 'hefty' fee.


http://www.humanrightsinitiative.org/programs/ai/rti/india/states/delhi/rti_spurs_debate_on_world_bank_delhi_water_project.pdf
Parivartan's calculation is that, if the project is accepted, a typical family may find its water bills increasing five times over. There is also a heavy emphasis on reducing non-revenue water. In practical terms, this translates into making water so expensive that poor people's access to water will be badly affected, despite statements that some subsidies will be maintained for the poor.
Several voluntary organisations, residents' welfare organisations, experts and citizens have come together in Delhi to form the 'Right to Water Campaign' (RWC) to oppose this project. The RWC has demanded that the Delhi Government should immediately withdraw its loan application to the World Bank for carrying out reforms in the water sector.


http://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/LKYSPPCaseStudy11-02_Crisis_at_the_Delhi_Jal_Board.pdf
. Parivartan had calculated that if the reforms were carried out, a typical household would find its water bills increasing five times over.14



http://www.moneylife.in/article/rti-expose-of-how-world-bank-had-arm-twisted-delhi-jal-board-for-water-privatisation/23217.html
The first battle fought against the World Bank and Delhi Jal Board (DJB) was in 2005 when RTI activist and social reformer Arvind Kejriwal through his non-governmental organisation (NGO) ‘Parivartan’ steered a tenacious campaign against privatization of water. For this, he obtained, under the Right to Information (RTI) Act, voluminous 9,000 pages of documents pertaining to correspondence between the World Bank and DJB of biddings, DJB’s correspondence with state and central government as well as reports of various consultants.

RTI documents revealed that the DJB had approached World Bank in 1998 for a loan to upgrade its water utility services to Delhi. The bank suggested that they hire a multi-national consultant who would ‘suggest’ basic reforms for the DJB to carry out. The bank offered a $2.5 million loan to DJB for hiring the consultant. States Arvind Kejriwal, “Delhi has 21 water zones. The management of each water zone was to be given to four experts for each zone at a salary of Rs25,000 per month which is Rs11 lakh. The per annum cost of the salaries would come to Rs108 crore. The total budget of the DJB was Rs168 crore thus 60% of the money would be spent on salaries on foreign consultants. Roughly estimated, this would lead to nine times increase in water tax for Delhites.


http://www.bannedthought.net/India/PeoplesMarch/PM1999-2006/archives/2006/Jan2k6/water%20mafia.htm

Indian Traitors Even Sell Our Water to the International Water Mafia
Arvind
<snipped>

According to a local organisation "if you remove all subsidies and cross-subsidies by 2011 as recommended by PwC the price of water for a middle class family will go up to Rs.1,750 per month and for a slum-dweller to Rs.350 per month".


Caveat -
1) The author is taking pains not to get traced with the last article. So do take care. It may be our man or it may be someone else too.
2) While I am in agreement that water should not be MNC-fied and Governance structure in India must not lose control here but I am also of the view that without privatization the rest of the country may never get to see services. I would like to tread the more studied path. Instead of this path of 5 times = = 9 times or 4000 pages == 9000 pages.
3) Notice however the line of attack. Very consistent. No application of mind beyond the line of attack. A pure hit and run.

..............................................

So the way I see it this is an attempt to hog the debate from the get go. Everybody seems to be using information to blackmail everybody else. In this nobody really knows how much should the water cost and how the hell do we take to every man/women/child.

Wishing good for oneself and wishing good for the country are not the same deal.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Rahul Mehta » 01 Jan 2014 16:39

This is how AK's free water, subsidized power economic policies will reduce corruption --- (1) his taxes and his Lokpals' stay oders will make every industry owner pauper, penniless, beggar and bankrupt. (2) And with that, his employees will also become jobless, penniless and beggars. So no one will have any money to pay bribes. And thus, there will be no corruption !!!

So you decide whether you want AK who give you corruption free regime with no one having any money to pay any bribes, or your want TRUE Right to Recall law-drafts , Jury System law-draft, Wealth tax law-draft, Inheritance tax law-draft etc which will not only reduce corruption, but also increase industry.

===

How is this related to NaMo?

NaMo fans can re-state this as (pls give me royalty for use)

This is how AK's free water, subsidized power economic policies will reduce corruption --- (1) his taxes and his Lokpals' stay oders will make every industry owner pauper, penniless, beggar and bankrupt. (2) And with that, his employees will also become jobless, penniless and beggars. So no one will have any money to pay bribes. And thus, there will be no corruption !!!

So you decide whether you want AK who give you corruption free regime with no one having any money to pay any bribes, or your want NaMo rule where there are minimal freebies, corruption reduces and growth is promotes.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby muraliravi » 01 Jan 2014 17:26

niran wrote:@mullaravi saar,
you left out Baba Ramdev from the equation in Haryana
his following is mucho larger than AAp, the Baba is a jat to boot
and during the Ramlila fiasco more than half were from Haryana
the AAp inc alliance in dilli gona cost them add that the insult heapeed on
Gen.V.K. Singh both by inc and an aapturd gona take away defense family votes
in Himanchal veerbhadra Singh will be history remember land is the most coveted there
and people do not tolerate any hanky panky remotely related to land.


Niran Sir,

Thanks for your inputs. Good to know that HP is in BJP's hands. Can you elucidate a little more on Haryana alliances.

Murali

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 01 Jan 2014 18:01

niran saar,

Quick Q... how did your source's predictions turn out for the last assmbly polls? Especially for Delhi? If they're close (and I hope they were) then it gives much more confidence in the amazing numbers you are hinting at...

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 01 Jan 2014 18:19

direct call!

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/o ... epage=true
“He (Narendra Modi) too represents the present corrupt political system of parties like Congress and BJP. On the other hand Arvind Kejriwal represents the alternative,” said AAP leader Prashant Bhushan in a press conference organised in Mumbai. He was asked who will be the prime ministerial candidate of AAP.

“Any Aam Aadmi can become a Prime Minister. We have a number of faces who are suitable for that post. But our party is not going to make any announcement on it now,


NaMo should maintain maun till their PM is announced.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby darshhan » 01 Jan 2014 18:27

niran wrote: the Baba is a jat to boot


Baba Ramdev is not a jat. He was born in a Yadav family

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 01 Jan 2014 19:53

^ True. Ramdev is OBC of Yadav lineage. Such alkaline errors don't help, niran garu... However, the jats who have never been pro BJP 'cept once during RJB... I'm not counting on them swinging fully into BJP kitty come what may, anyway.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby fanne » 01 Jan 2014 19:54

this time they have, thanks to mujjafnagar.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 01 Jan 2014 19:55

^^But only in west UP and that too just about. In haryana, the luv doesn't carry through, however. Must admit that in Rajasthan, the jats did swing towards BJP ditching their traditional cong support.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krisna » 01 Jan 2014 20:16

viewtopic.php?p=1568465#p1568465
NaMo should continue his onward journey as planned with some changes to incorporate the AAP factor also.
NaMo should make sure that all his supporters vote -- crucial will be election booth management.
Hope the committed voters for NaMo do not disappoint this time.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Abhijit » 01 Jan 2014 21:37

ravi_g:

Let me concoct a story:

Nagpur saw that Congress support comes from willing and unwilling. Nagpur realized that there is Bharat where BJP is strong but only because of traditional value systems remaining/being strong. Then there is an India where traditions have become embarrassing/irrelevant and people may or may not like Sanghis. As a result Nagpur got NaMo to talk to BR and got the anti-corruption drive started in Bharat. Nagpur also got Gadkari to pull Anna ji’s strings and got him to cater to the nationalistic yearnings of India that is Bharat.

Thus AAP was created by Gadkari to provide a jhunjhuna to the yuppie (obvious ID) & puppies (in MSM speak this is euphemism for poorer & vulnerable sections in need of all round support) of India who keep voting for the chiknas in congress. Why do they vote for Congress - because they are either dumb or too occupied to notice that they are being robbed in broad daylight.


I have propounded this theory a few pages ago. I actually believe that AAP is eating more into congress and assorted other commies by trying to outdo them with a veneer of anti-corruption. I also do not subscribe to the CT's that AAP/AK are some kind of foreign/CIA/MNC/EJ/whatever puppets. I firmly believe (based on numerous personal anecdotes of talking to a whole bunch of IIT/IIM/Engg crowd) that AAP-vadis in the rest of the country are those that are so virulently anti-BJP that they would never vote for NaMo. So in the rest of the country, AAP will end up hurting COngress way more than BJP.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_23365 » 01 Jan 2014 22:04

Baba Ramdev is Ahir(Yadav) not Jat. But he has a large following in Haryana.
But after Delhi election, there is a lot of talk about AK. When you start giving out doles you become attractive to everyone. Electricity prices are major concern as this increase the input cost for agriculture. With populist measures like reducing the pricing to half AK will strike chord even with rural voters.
BJP leadership in Haryana is lackluster on top of that they were giving statements against Jat Reservation. Jat warmed up to BJP in Rajasthan and Delhi after they were given reservation in both states.
There is lot of anger against Congress and Hooda in Haryana except Rohtak and Sonipat district.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RoyG » 01 Jan 2014 22:22

a_bharat wrote:
Arjun wrote:I am hoping for a Modi PM-ship and AAP replacing the Congress as the 2nd national party after decimation of the latter.

+1


So let me get this straight...you want a gang of NACxalite NGO types replacing the Congress? :shock: India needs to neutralize this leftist secular cancer once and for all. No more chances. AAP is like an HIV virus which serves as a cocoon for Congress payload. Modi Post exposure prophylaxis is needed to prevent serovenversion.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Supratik » 01 Jan 2014 22:33

I am in agreement. I think Congress for all its faults has a veneer of nationalism. AAP is a new vehicle for leftists and anarchists as the old shibboleths are not working. The Communists are dying and the leftists in the INC bandwagon are disenchanted. Mulayam, Nitish and Naveen are the only remaining relics of the old socialists. I don't see any need for leftists in a modern democracy running on market economics. Whatever socialism is needed should be incorporated w/o turning leftist as is being done in advanced economies. India should stick to the left-of-center (Congress) and right-of-center (BJP) two-party model. You don't need a thousand parties or a-new-party-a-day for good governance.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20317 » 01 Jan 2014 22:38

Abhijit wrote:ravi_g:

Let me concoct a story:

Nagpur saw that Congress support comes from willing and unwilling. Nagpur realized that there is Bharat where BJP is strong but only because of traditional value systems remaining/being strong. Then there is an India where traditions have become embarrassing/irrelevant and people may or may not like Sanghis. As a result Nagpur got NaMo to talk to BR and got the anti-corruption drive started in Bharat. Nagpur also got Gadkari to pull Anna ji’s strings and got him to cater to the nationalistic yearnings of India that is Bharat.

Thus AAP was created by Gadkari to provide a jhunjhuna to the yuppie (obvious ID) & puppies (in MSM speak this is euphemism for poorer & vulnerable sections in need of all round support) of India who keep voting for the chiknas in congress. Why do they vote for Congress - because they are either dumb or too occupied to notice that they are being robbed in broad daylight.


I have propounded this theory a few pages ago. I actually believe that AAP is eating more into congress and assorted other commies by trying to outdo them with a veneer of anti-corruption. I also do not subscribe to the CT's that AAP/AK are some kind of foreign/CIA/MNC/EJ/whatever puppets. I firmly believe (based on numerous personal anecdotes of talking to a whole bunch of IIT/IIM/Engg crowd) that AAP-vadis in the rest of the country are those that are so virulently anti-BJP that they would never vote for NaMo. So in the rest of the country, AAP will end up hurting COngress way more than BJP.


About the theory I have nothing more to add just yet. You see I too bet on this theory but that did not work so well for me.

But about the funding. Well you did not live the life I did but let me just bet. This water subsidy shenanigan is a way to get the excess water meters installed, which is another scam actually. That the billing will increase was projected some 7-8 years back and the projection from AK-47 himself (5 times == 9 times) implies he knows. Well FYI the water tariff has already increased in about double that time. Had people gotten better water or better water coverage this could have been justified but what have we. Well what we have is there in some other post that I made.

Now tell me AK-47 himself has shown calculations for his bribery claims and he is the one pied pipering the people to more meters for the same water and same water quality distributed ever worse.

Also check out the electricity distribution battle lines and you will know. Those who normally 'follow the law' and 'exhort/swear by the same' have already given their consent and those who were being targeted will be challenging the Chamcha CM in the courts. And the chamcha CM will lose the case in 3 years by when all the din has died down and all the people have forgotten the stand they have taken right now.

Furthermore please do give a thought to why would a supposedly loss making business like media broadcasting which is forced to charge in lacs for simple 10 second spots will be giving wall to wall papered coverage to AK-47.

Then there is the matter of self declaration donations and missing donations.

You stand a good chance of a domestic industry vs. matti national industry debate getting aired pretty soon. I will be batting for Domestic industry off course :twisted: .

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Vriksh » 01 Jan 2014 22:58

Concur with Abhijit. Many in IIT crowd is anti-Modi/anti-BJP since many are earning from western countries who are against Modi. They therefore will support and vote for the more socially acceptable and seductive AAP.

Today AAP is gathering up all the Anti-Modi vote and I think this is a good thing since this is a straight up presidential campaign between Modi and Kejriwal. Both ways India is possibly moving to a less corrupt system.

UPA/Congress is thoroughly corrupt however AAP may not be or atleast it is hoped that a lot nationalist people can join at grass roots and swing it from its socialist mores to more nationalist/mercentile mode. BJP can also use this to clean up its shop of deadwood.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby VikramS » 02 Jan 2014 00:23

Abhijit wrote:ravi_g:

I have propounded this theory a few pages ago. I actually believe that AAP is eating more into congress and assorted other commies by trying to outdo them with a veneer of anti-corruption. I also do not subscribe to the CT's that AAP/AK are some kind of foreign/CIA/MNC/EJ/whatever puppets. I firmly believe (based on numerous personal anecdotes of talking to a whole bunch of IIT/IIM/Engg crowd) that AAP-vadis in the rest of the country are those that are so virulently anti-BJP that they would never vote for NaMo. So in the rest of the country, AAP will end up hurting COngress way more than BJP.



Boss, understand the first-by-the-post electoral system. What would have been a two way contest is now a three way contest. In a two-way contest Modi would have swept. In a three-way contest it is a toss-up.

Even in Delhi Congress kept 25% vote-share. Its identity based vote bank was rock-solid. What they did do is transfer the Bangaldeshi vote to AAP via the Barreley cleric who holds sway.

So suppose in every constituency Congress has 20% guaranteed vote, and BJP also has 20% guaranteed vote and 20% for other factions (locals, regionals etc.). The 40% swing voter determines the election.

That swing vote is now going to split three-way. And it will happen the most in urban areas, where BJP had a big advantage.

I say it again:

The biggest mistake BJP did was to allow AAP to form a government. His credibility is now gone up 1000x, his base is motivated and it allows the media to tom-tom him 24x7.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Muppalla » 02 Jan 2014 05:24

VikramS wrote:I say it again:

The biggest mistake BJP did was to allow AAP to form a government. His credibility is now gone up 1000x, his base is motivated and it allows the media to tom-tom him 24x7.


I was off the firm belief that do the thod-phod and form a BJP government would have stopped all the drama. But a lot are happy with what BJP did and they think this is a good strategy.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby VikramS » 02 Jan 2014 05:30

Muppalla: If they had listened to RM, they would have known what would happen if AAP earned credibility. In the opposition they would have been a nuisance. As CM, he is a genuine threat.

It seems BJP strategists did not game how the media would rally behind AK.
or
The Angst People feel and the need for change
or
The chameleon like capability that AK has to be what ever he wants to be.


It is the close-ness to the national elections which worried me the most earlier, and that has come true.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_22539 » 02 Jan 2014 06:09

^AK won because he promised the moon and he was at liberty to do so when is not in power. After being in power for a few months people will realize how fake his promises are. No matter how much money he drains from the state coffers for his largesses, the delivery will be disastrous and this will cause friction among those who benefit and those who do not (as usual). Six months from now, he will stand discredited, paid media help or not. When the slum dweller without a pipe sees his rich neighbor swimming in water, guess who he is gonna vote for next time.

PS: All these dhoti-shiverers need to just pipe down. Before election time it was how Modi would never be made PM candidate and D4 will win. After that it was how the congis will never lose because of their caste/mulla equation. Now that the congis have lost its another thing to whine about. You guys need to start thinking lucidly instead of being hysterical. Its EASY to be a prophet of doom, it doesn't take much effort to fail.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby a_bharat » 02 Jan 2014 06:19

RoyG wrote:
a_bharat wrote:+1


So let me get this straight...you want a gang of NACxalite NGO types replacing the Congress? :shock: India needs to neutralize this leftist secular cancer once and for all. No more chances. AAP is like an HIV virus which serves as a cocoon for Congress payload. Modi Post exposure prophylaxis is needed to prevent serovenversion.

Congress and its friends are rotten to core and their death would be a great boon to the country. While AAP has a few loonies, it would be way better than Congress. AAP wouldn't be any less nationalistic than Cong.

But AAP may never scale up due to the dearth of good people in politics (and when it scales up, it may not be much different from the rest of the parties), and may only end up in cutting anti-congress votes, leading to 3rd front khichdi.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Muppalla » 02 Jan 2014 06:23

Arun Menon: I am 100% confident that AAP will only help Modi's march to victory. My only belief is that there should never be any strategy where a lease of life should be given to any enemies. In that aspect I was hoping that BJP will just go for a kill instead of these strategic spins.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Vayutuvan » 02 Jan 2014 06:46

Hari Seldon wrote:Image

Love the nice architecture with beNagaluru penkulu (tiles) and the warm colors while we are shivering in the sub-zero (F) temps and vicious wind chills. Wish I was standing there in a shorts and tees (cross that - tank tops it is).

Happy new year to all :)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Arjun » 02 Jan 2014 06:52

RoyG wrote:So let me get this straight...you want a gang of NACxalite NGO types replacing the Congress? :shock:

Why do you think the pretend NACxalites will be any worse than the original NACxals ruling India for the past decade ? :wink:

I guess I have a lower opinion of the Congress, and more specifically the Dynasty, than you do. Somehow, my feeling is that looking at the kind of corporate types getting on the AAP bandwagon, it would be difficult for that party to continue full-tilt in socialist mode. Morover, in my opinion having AAP as the primary opposition will ultimately act to the advantage of Modi / BJP (and to India), than giving space to the Dynasty.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ramana » 02 Jan 2014 07:11

VikramS
I say it again:

The biggest mistake BJP did was to allow AAP to form a government. His credibility is now gone up 1000x, his base is motivated and it allows the media to tom-tom him 24x7



I think the biggest mistake was not realizing the high stakes game in Delhi and allowing indecision and delay to scupper a minimum of six seats.
And still no accountability for that goof up.


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