Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Prem Kumar
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Prem Kumar » 08 Jan 2014 03:12

Thinking about the #GodhraCottageIndustry, do you know who first came up with the maxim "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it"?

Was it Goebbels or was it Panchatantra?

Read about the Brahmin & the Goat and decide for yourself: http://www.talesofpanchatantra.com/shortstories_brahmin_and_crooks.php

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby apoorv » 08 Jan 2014 03:33

I have started pitching BJP and NaMo on my facebook wall. I see many more doing it. Many are actively exposing AAP. In fact BJP supporters have gone more active one they saw AAP hogging limelight. This is despite none of us are BJP members. I think NaMo has created enough fan base and momentum to withstand AAP onslaught. Moreover people supporting NaMo are ideologically driven and not due to a fad. Initially there used to be a lot of resistance from AAP supporters but opposition has now mostly gone in last one week. Lets hope people are getting over AAP mujra.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Prem Kumar » 08 Jan 2014 03:53

^^^ Its important that the aam Modi supporter blocks & tackles for Modi. If that means dirty battles, so be it. Modi should be polished in his criticism of AAP. The rest of us neednt be. We should expose thoroughly the ideological vacuum & the national danger represented by AAP.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Abhijit » 08 Jan 2014 04:53

Bhai log, why hasn't NaMo even talked about AAP? There has been only one single oblique reference to AAP in NaMo's latest speech. AAP is a distraction and is not going to matter outside NCR and a few IT-infested places. If NaMo takes up AAP, it will give unnecessary fillip to their showbaazi. The rest of the BJP and people like us should take up the battle and let NaMO behave like the elephant (in the elephant Vs the barking dogs maxim)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Klaus » 08 Jan 2014 05:06

ramana wrote:A few years back a radical Telugu speaker who was borught up in Maharastra region told us that Delhi has to be sacked again. We were shocked and then he went on to explain the whole logic. Since then I was told he and his friends went back to India and started a geo-political research center.


Nothing radical at all actually, even here on the forum we have had occasional calls for remaking of the Lutyens area into a lungspace for the NCR and shifting out of the govt machinery to apartment complexes.

It would be nice if we could get a contact from this geo-political research center, as in get a few of their associates to a BR Forum meet or as an explicit regular poster here.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ranjbe » 08 Jan 2014 05:12

matrimc wrote:
ramana wrote:He is nominally from AP but his thoughts and ideas were shaped in Nagpur Uty!!!!
I think you have unravelled the mystic of PVNR.
Its the Peshwa system.


PVNR studied at Fergusons College, Pune and Osmania University, Hyderabad. Pune of course was the seat of Peshwa empire.


OT, but V.P. Singh also studied at Ferguson College..proves that not all imbibe what that region has to offer.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 08 Jan 2014 05:26

apoorv wrote:Moreover people supporting NaMo are ideologically driven and not due to a fad. .

My PoV was his performance as an able administrator, logical thinker and corruption hater. We need a man with a vision for the future, backed by a solid performance, and work for what is needed for desh future.

It has nothing to do with fad or ideology. AAP's agenda is tiny subset of Modi's universal approach. This is the message for aam.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Gus » 08 Jan 2014 05:48

KJoishy wrote:The Modi juggernaut seems to have stalled. All buzz is about Khujliwala. Modi needs to pull something out quick.


there are still many months away to elections. in terms of news cycles there will be 3 or 4 dozen.

to me, it seems that he has consciously taken a step back to strategise on allies, take ideas and form plans - instead of constant rallies and meets which suck time and energy away from those activities.

all the reasons that bagged seats for AAP in delhi, is not there in rest of country.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 08 Jan 2014 05:56

^^ Liked NM's recent sound bite (was it aimed at AAP?) that people should go by "track record, not tape record".... :)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Cosmo_R » 08 Jan 2014 06:10

KJoishy wrote:
The Modi juggernaut seems to have stalled. All buzz is about Khujliwala. Modi needs to pull something out quick.

AAP is more of a threat to INC. I believe in ND they took 50% of the INC votes and only ~7-8% of the BJP votes.

The INC owned media know they can't afford an AAP factor in the LS so the attention on them. You'll note that our our ever alert HM, one Sushil Kumar Shinde has ordered an inquiry into AAP funding from NRIs.

This has nothing to do with Modi. He's taking a popcorn break :)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby svinayak » 08 Jan 2014 06:16

Is Modi the Ideal Choice?


Modi’s response to the humiliation heaped on him is hard to understand though. A principled stance that in the event he becomes the prime minister of India he would ban the entry of American presidents, senators, and congressmen guilty of endorsing predatory wars and causing genocides would have been in order. He could’ve announced that there would be reciprocal frisking of a former American president for the humiliation heaped on Kalam. Instead, Modi invited the American diplomats to attend his election rally in Mumbai.

The invite was only rescinded because of the humiliating treatment of the Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade in the U.S. which resulted in public outrage in India. Does Modi believe that appeasement is the only way to deal with unfair American bullying? Strong leaders take courageous stances and do not submit to bullying. One must remember that despite the corruption she unleashed, Indira Gandhi did not blink in the face of Western bullying during the 1971 Indo-Pak war and the 1973 nuclear weapons testing even though India was a comparatively weaker power then.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby LakshO » 08 Jan 2014 06:21

A leading light of CongI bootlickers shows his desperation :P

Barf alert: Dynasty lapdog MSA holding forth pearls of wisdom :((
http://www.firstpost.com/politics/mani-shankar-aiyar-hints-at-cong-tie-up-with-aap-to-stop-modi-1326543.html?utm_source=quote&utm_medium=hp

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Vayutuvan » 08 Jan 2014 06:25

ranjbe wrote:OT, but V.P. Singh also studied at Ferguson College..proves that not all imbibe what that region has to offer.


Did not know that :oops: also OU produced people like Dr. Kancha Illiah.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_27426 » 08 Jan 2014 07:43

After studying in Pune for 4 yrs and interacting a lot with assal (real) punekar, I always got a sense that they don't care a damn about the glorious past and their achievements. Atri will bail me out on this one, since we have had tons of discussions dedicated to this topic. Its is also evident from the way they have maintained most of the historically important sites, barring exceptions. It thus gives a feeling of an out-and-out leftist regime there. Hence extrapolating national pride from mere education in Pune will be gross exaggeration in my eye.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Singha » 08 Jan 2014 08:07

my FIL who had served a stint in pune during his working life had made a mysterious comment I did not pay much attention to..."you will get exposed to proper hindu culture there"

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Rahul Mehta » 08 Jan 2014 08:43

a_bharat wrote:Here is the proposal from ArthaKranti on taxation:
  • Withdrawal of Existing Taxation System Completely* (except Customs/Import Duties)
    * All Central, State and Local Government Taxes – Direct and Indirect
  • Every Transaction routed through a bank will attract a certain deduction in appropriate percentage as Bank Transaction Tax i.e. Single Point Tax Deducted at Source (say 2 %)
    • This deduction is to be effected on receiving/credit account only
    • This deducted amount will be credited to different Government Levels like Central, State and Local (as say 0.7 %, 0.6 % and 0.35 % respectively)
    • Transacting Bank will also have its share in this deducted amount (say 0.35 %) as the Bank has a key role to perform
  • Cash Transactions will not attract any tax
  • Withdrawal of High Denomination Currency (say above Rs. 50)
  • Government should make legal provisions to restrict cash transactions up to a certain limit (say Rs. 2,000)
    This means, Cash Transactions above this limit will NOT enjoy any legal protection.


So people will do transactions via non-banks such as cash, gold, silver, dollar bills OR registered non-banks or use bond of some reputed company. Say X bought house from Y and in return paid bonds of some company A. There is NO transfer of rupee at bank. Hence tax collected is zero !! OR you need a whole draft to define transaction to plug 1000s of loopholes. Where is that draft?.

And how do you stop non-banks? Say every one in India has account in some Non-Banks. Each time A has to pay B, A will pay B via "I promise pay" aka hundi across one or two Non-Banks. At the year end, the Non-Banks will settle accounts . So only time one will withdraw rupee is when he has to buy something from Govt. So tax will be 2% of Govt business which be nowhere close to Rs 30 lakh crore of total Govt expenditure.

===

All in all, I am giving a newspaper advt against TT. The TT-worshippers can start looking for a cover to hide from those who read my advt. It will be squrrel against elephant, but I dont want activists to waste time on AK-nonsense and now this TT-nonsense, and "black dollars will come back in1 year" which is greatest of all nonsenses peddling around. The activists in USA and China are NOT wasting time on fasting, slogan shouting, candle burning, Anna-pooja, NaMo-pooja, AK-pooja, jhadu, morning walks, TT, mask wearing, cap wearing, "bring black dollars back in year" etc and countries are moving at breath taking speed. And if activists keep wasting time on this assorted nonsenses, then India will remain a 4th world country to come, and soo get run over by enemies like China or USA. These draftless wonders like TT are doing immense damage to India. Earlier they end, better

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vivek.rao » 08 Jan 2014 09:14

RMji

Weigh on this one

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 971_1.html

Kejriwal's election plans worry foreign investors
New political entity could force the govt to resort to socially popular policies that could drain the economy's finances

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby johneeG » 08 Jan 2014 09:54

Rahul Mehta saar,
I just watched your video on AAP comparing it with Praja Rajyam. Thats the first video of yours that I watched. And really liked it. I liked your style and also your command on language. So, typed Rahul Mehta in utube. Then, watched another video of yours on Federal Reserve. Then, I came across another video where you talk of Dandi March and Bhagath Singh. I haven't watched that video completely yet, but it seems that you have reached that same conclusion that I reached. You posted that video 2 yrs back, while I posted a similar post few months back. Link to my post



I never believed when you said ,"all wise men think alike", but now I am tempted to agree. :mrgreen:

----
Coming to Arthakranthi scheme:
I haven't really gone into its details(because it seems daunting to me), but your counters seem very valid.

But, I don't understand why you think 'bring back black money' is a futile exercise? What is wrong with Bhaarath sarkaar trying to bring back black money from swiz or other tax havens?

----
Also saar,
why not a video on the Fordriwal himself? Like Antonio asking not to transfer him out of dilli. He and his wife working in dilli for very long. Then, he getting financed by ford. Then, he getting ford funded award. And how he abandoned the NGO job in the middle and his former associates are cribbing about it. And then jumping on the bandwagon of Right to Info after 2006(by which time many Govts had already implemented it). How media is trying to misrepresent Fordriwal as the icon of right to info. How Fordriwal has not achieved anything spectacular in his career as an NGO. So, why is he getting so much media publicity when the same media does not show huge protests in Seema and Kostha? Why was anna given sudden publicity during lokpal and why that publicity was suddenly revoked when he parted ways with Fordri? How costly it is to get media publicity and how media is totally paid media.

I don't know whether you already have such a video, if you have such a video, then please post the link.

----
You seem to be proposing a tax on inheritance, saar, why such a tax? Why should sarkaar get a tax if a kids inherit their parents wealth? That would be nothing short of fleecing by sarkaar! Already sarkaar is collecting so many indirect taxes and spending all that money on wasteful expenses and increasing debts. Only thing left is for the sarkaar to tax air that people breath and water that people drink.

----
BTW saar,
Subbu Swamy seems to have been party to saving Chidhambaram temple from being taken over by the TN sarkaar. There seems to be a video of yours against Subbu Swamy(haven't watched that video yet). So, would you give him his due on this case?

PS: you seem to have stopped asking people to SMS to MPs in some of your recent posts(or maybe I missed that part). If so, then hopefully you have realized that the SMS idea is also similar to candle light vigils(i.e. timepass or time waste). :)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20317 » 08 Jan 2014 10:07

Rahul Mehta wrote:
a_bharat wrote:Here is the proposal from ArthaKranti on taxation:
  • Withdrawal of Existing Taxation System Completely* (except Customs/Import Duties)
    * All Central, State and Local Government Taxes – Direct and Indirect
  • Every Transaction routed through a bank will attract a certain deduction in appropriate percentage as Bank Transaction Tax i.e. Single Point Tax Deducted at Source (say 2 %)
    • This deduction is to be effected on receiving/credit account only
    • This deducted amount will be credited to different Government Levels like Central, State and Local (as say 0.7 %, 0.6 % and 0.35 % respectively)
    • Transacting Bank will also have its share in this deducted amount (say 0.35 %) as the Bank has a key role to perform
  • Cash Transactions will not attract any tax
  • Withdrawal of High Denomination Currency (say above Rs. 50)
  • Government should make legal provisions to restrict cash transactions up to a certain limit (say Rs. 2,000)
    This means, Cash Transactions above this limit will NOT enjoy any legal protection.


So people will do transactions via non-banks such as cash, gold, silver, dollar bills OR registered non-banks or use bond of some reputed company. Say X bought house from Y and in return paid bonds of some company A. There is NO transfer of rupee at bank. Hence tax collected is zero !! OR you need a whole draft to define transaction to plug 1000s of loopholes. Where is that draft?.

And how do you stop non-banks? Say every one in India has account in some Non-Banks. Each time A has to pay B, A will pay B via "I promise pay" aka hundi across one or two Non-Banks. At the year end, the Non-Banks will settle accounts . So only time one will withdraw rupee is when he has to buy something from Govt. So tax will be 2% of Govt business which be nowhere close to Rs 30 lakh crore of total Govt expenditure.

===

All in all, I am giving a newspaper advt against TT. The TT-worshippers can start looking for a cover to hide from those who read my advt. It will be squrrel against elephant, but I dont want activists to waste time on AK-nonsense and now this TT-nonsense, and "black dollars will come back in1 year" which is greatest of all nonsenses peddling around. The activists in USA and China are NOT wasting time on fasting, slogan shouting, candle burning, Anna-pooja, NaMo-pooja, AK-pooja, jhadu, morning walks, TT, mask wearing, cap wearing, "bring black dollars back in year" etc and countries are moving at breath taking speed. And if activists keep wasting time on this assorted nonsenses, then India will remain a 4th world country to come, and soo get run over by enemies like China or USA. These draftless wonders like TT are doing immense damage to India. Earlier they end, better


RM ji, all the loopholes that you point out already exist and form a part of the 'tax efficient structuring'. If its going to remain even when it has remained then there is not much Delta to figure in the decision, eitherway.

Your case against Arthkranti when argued before BJP sympathizers gets additionally undermined by the fact that most of your audience want to promote a culture where Gold is valued and not have it monetized. Getting people to hold on to their 'gold' instead of 'gold certificates without delivery'. Gold does not depend on sovereign laws for its value. Gold has a time value in that it keeps going on and on even when central banks have fallen, governments have fallen, countries have fallen, cultures have fallen and civilizations too have fallen. Its only limitation would be that it would be worthless if there is no man on planet earth to admire and value it.

Then there is no small matter of 'foreign legal tender' aka 'dollar'. RM ji, I deliberately used the term foreign legal tender to highlight the fact that all medium of exchange considered white and pristine have a legal backing. This legal backing constitutes control mechanism which is the color of the cat. And much as it may sound iconoclastic but the color of the cat does matter when it comes to 'control/ownership of value'. Our Arthvyavastha is ours and the fact of it being ours, is its main value. The control is colored by our existence and our interests, ergo if it is controlled by someone else then it carries his color, his stamping and his interests.

My stand:
1) In any system (that one feels like changing) all the drivers of cost are built in. These drivers are going to remain even in the new system. The manifestation of these drivers only may change. That implies there is not going to be a sudden and lasting and justifiable reduction in the cost to the economy of items like petrol/diesel. However, linked to every system is a cascading effect and also a flab /inefficiency effect. I don't see Arthkranti as things getting cheaper for Aam Admi. I do see Arthkranti as a flab cutting excercise. This flab hits our economic efficiency OTOneH (not touching this here since it is too accounting oriented). At the same time it hits our security too. That is why all feel-secure countries have less of cash floating around in the hands. If for no good reason, even then for just the security reasons, a well traveled and well read person like RM ji should in fact be supporting this. What is the amount of cash that Amerikhans use in their day to day transaction?

2) Arthkranti hobbles the opposition. For the reason that there is no draft and anything can be sold, said and excused away. No draft additionally also opens up the way for the really thoughtful people to start thinking and start contributing. Something that a two bit hustler has effectively stymied in India with his silly sensationalism and emotionalism. He will fool our people and that is excused away as 'ek bar to chance dena banata hai' but not giving our own people (esp. people who have a karmic qualification in their favor) a chance is just not a good idea.


If NaMo wants to benefit from Arthkranti he should sell both these aspects. The patla dimag capable of lucid thought will latch on to the efficiency gains. The mota dimag capable of head banging, will latch on to the security aspect. This mimics the strength that the opponent carries - Mayajaal. Only this time to be used against them.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Shalav » 08 Jan 2014 10:37

Can we please stop discussing RM's if then else statements on this thread?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby kmkraoind » 08 Jan 2014 11:57

It seems BJP strategists want to field new faces as much as possible.
Image

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20317 » 08 Jan 2014 12:14

Another Vijay Goel moment. Good probably.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Atri » 08 Jan 2014 13:41

shaurya wrote:After studying in Pune for 4 yrs and interacting a lot with assal (real) punekar, I always got a sense that they don't care a damn about the glorious past and their achievements. Atri will bail me out on this one, since we have had tons of discussions dedicated to this topic. Its is also evident from the way they have maintained most of the historically important sites, barring exceptions. It thus gives a feeling of an out-and-out leftist regime there. Hence extrapolating national pride from mere education in Pune will be gross exaggeration in my eye.


:)

Post 1948, Pune is to Maharashtra what lutyens Delhi is to India. :P bunch of inconsequential windbags harping about past glory and perceived cultural superiority over uncouth and uncultured outsiders. That original PIF line of thinking has been severely castrated now. I think PVNR studied in the Hyd and then masters in Hislop college of nagpur. I do not know about him coming to Pune to study. In any case, he might have been in Pune prior to godse chapter when it actually was a ideologically vibrant city.

The case of Godse was somewhat like Hitler. When hitler committed suicide, everyone decided to conveniently blame him and carry on with their lives. Godse became "he who must not be named" just like hitler. German culture was reduced to mozart bach beethovan. Similarly, pune was reduced to naataks, music, food and good colleges with a token reference to shivaji and at times bajirao similar to token reference of frederik and bismarck.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby kmkraoind » 08 Jan 2014 13:46

Former ground handler owns planes, choppers that fly Rahul Gandhi - DNA

Jolly was working with M/s Saraya Aviation owned by Punjab revenue minister BS Majithia for Rs3,000 a month. His former colleagues say that Jolly was very good in managing records and at administration. Sources said when Jolly branched out on his own, top Congress leaders pumped big money into his charter service company called quite aptly Air Charter Services.

“Jolly is a pawn, he is the face of the company, but everyone in the aviation industry knows who all are the behind-the-scene operators. Key Congressmen have pumped lots of unaccounted money into Air Charter Services,” said an industry insider.

......

Jolly was born and brought up in a Punjabi family in Delhi. Sources said no only Rahul Gandhi, his sister Priyanka and her kids also fly in Jolly’s air charter firm.

Sources said Rahul Gandhi usually always travels by private chartered aircraft. There are many private airlines which offer such services. But Rahul prefers Air Charter Services. As of now, Air Charter Services has seven aircraft, including a BE350.

It’s said that because of the Congress links, Air Charter Services does not keep official records of Rahul’s trips. Entries for Rahul Gandhi in the airport authority logbook are always made in the names of unknown people. :shock: Sources said the air traffic control gets a wireless communication from the SPG that Rahul Gandhi would be flying and that the flight should not be delayed. Give the aircraft topmost priority goes the order.

As Rahul Gandhi cannot enjoy the official status of a VVIP, airport staff do not make any entry in the logbook,” said a source. Officially, only the president, vice-president, prime minister and heads of foreign states have that privilege. In spite of this, Rahul Gandhi gets special treatment. :twisted:

........
The company has not disclosed the list of its shareholders in the annual returns filed for 2011-12 and 2012-13. As per the shareholding pattern, according to annual returns for 2010-11, Semoun Jolly holds 18,56,400 shares of Rs10 each. Other shareholders in the company include Kamlesh Jolly, Semoun Jolly HUF, Maninder Singh and Ashok Jolly HUF, CPCT Media Private Ltd. SSJ Metals Equipment Private Ltd also hold stake in the company as per the annual returns of 2010-11


The way media exposing Core of Congress, i.e. Dynasty. It seems, Chota subedars are raising revolt banners on dying Dynasty.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 08 Jan 2014 17:06

Terrible onlee... even paid media is speculating on AAP fizzle-outs despite having every incentive to not do so.... onlee...

Image

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby abhik » 08 Jan 2014 17:30

kmkraoind wrote:It seems BJP strategists want to field new faces as much as possible.
Image

Being in power in the state is very important to local leaders. Shifting to the center could have been a sign of a compromise. He must be gunning for the CM's post not a minister's in the central government. If I am not wrong this is also exactly what Marandi is after.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RajeshA » 08 Jan 2014 17:47

Continuing from AP Politics Thread

Muppalla wrote:
ramana wrote:PoliticsParty guy on Congress Hamlet mode "to divide or not to divide":

http://www.politicsparty.com/shownews.php?newsid=343


Sonia does not have any long term strategy if congress loses 2014. For her party the loss of 2014 means there will be no such party called congress in India.


There are too many signs that Sonia wants to call it quits and go back to Italy. I think her dilemma is the same one as that of USA pulling out its troops from Afghanistan: how to prevent a blowback and a total loss on investments, and how to safeguard the support ecosystem one is leaving behind.

I sometimes wonder why there were court summons from USA for Sonia Gandhi in 1984 Sikh pogrom case. One possibility is that USA is blackmailing Sonia Gandhi that she can retreat only after making sure that Western investments in Indian political system are not jeopardized, saying they want an alternative pliant government. May be that is the reason Sonia Gandhi is trying to give support to Aam Aadmi Party, as much as she can, so much so that she has cannibalized Delhi Congress and may be willing to throw Sheila Dixit under the wheels as well, should the need arise.

For Sonia Gandhi it is important that she gets an interim third front government for two years. During this time the dynasty can retreat from India, especially as they would not have any legislative or executive responsibilities, perhaps intentionally having lost their seats. One sees Kumar Vishwas of AAP going to candidate from Amethi. Possibly Rahul Gandhi would be transferring all of his vote-bank there to AAP, pumping up Kumar Vishwas apparently into a giant killer.

So one issue is of a safe passage to the Dynasty and their hanger-ons. The other is to install an American-controlled government at the Center.

An AAP-led Third Front fulfills both of these aims.

However Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi perhaps think that Modi too would give them a safe passage if they ask him politely, as long as they promise never to set foot in India again. So their heart does not seem to be really in the fight.

But USA would have none of this "throwing up of hands". They want to see the Dynasty to see this transition through and provide a good fight and to stall Modi. USA seems to be angry with the Dynasty and with Manmohan Singh and so we see repeated humiliations and disinterest from the USA. Similarly we see USA hardly enthused publicly about a NaMo PMship.

Let's also not forget that the Nuclear deal did not bring about any orders for American nuclear plants due to liability issues. Now the Americans may be getting a party in power who were not really a party to the deal, and may not stick to the unilateral moratorium either. That may be just one reason why the Americans don't want Modi. Anti-Conversion Law is another. But more important is that India may try to break out of the Macaulayist, socialist straitjacket in which the Anglo-Americans have kept India contained.

Also a Dynasty retreat back to Europe does not really mean they would stop meddling in India. They would want to keep their proxies as well, and their control would be far more in background than up front playing the general.

kmkraoind wrote:Rajesh Garu, if they sense such thing i.e. Dynasty's Italy vanavas and AAping, how will Cong's satraps behave, will they raise revolt banner against Dynasty or will be blackmailed by Mafia to lay low or just shift allegiances to AAP. What percentages of revolt can wreck the plan of Con-AAP nexus?


kmkraoind ji,

The Italy vanavas and transfer of "apparent" power to non-Congress proxies is just a theory, but I believe, a theory which gives an explanation to many observations, also a theory for which there is some circumstantial evidence.

Actually I think should this theory go around a lot more, it would lead to a much more quicker collapse of both Congress as well as any of Sonia's proxies.

Just imagine all those Congress MLAs who invested much of their own money in the recently held Delhi elections. How would they feel were they to know that Sonia Gandhi is out to sabotage the election of Congress candidates? How would Congress Lok Sabha candidates feel when they knew that they were just cannon fodder and their leader, Sonia Gandhi, had already decided to sacrifice them?

In Delhi itself, all those Congress candidates who lost, may even use their influence to see to it that AAP loses big time, just so that they can avenge the deceit of their leader.

All over India, Congress candidates would not trust those whom they think are close to High Command. High Command would completely lose their trust. Every decision by High Command would be disputed.

This is the kind of implosion we should strive for. That would lead not only to a Congress Mukt Bharat, but a full war among the seculars. Arvind Kejriwals, Jagans and Ajit Jogis should be taken down by seculars itself. There should be no smooth transfer of "apparent" power from Congress to any new EJ & left-liberal paradropped mafias.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Manish_Sharma » 08 Jan 2014 18:53

:) I remember Bji had said even 4 years back that when the time comes dienasts should be given a safe passage out of Bharat, that'll be to our benefit.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 08 Jan 2014 18:59

giving safe passage not without accounting the wrong doings... only delay the sentence is fine. this level of tolerance is what defined the current state of affairs. unless, we wish to live with hidden corruption agenda.. what is the purpose of safe passage.

if the person is wrong, punish him. be it modi or gandhi.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby M Joshi » 08 Jan 2014 19:02

Since we are discussing it in this thread

Can India do away with income tax?

Not all leaders were impressed initially; most importantly Yashwant Sinha, the former finance minister, said that we would be heading back to the Vedic days.

.......

Irving Fisher, writing in 1942, and earlier advocates of the expenditure tax based their case primarily on the argument that the income tax involved "double taxation" of savings and distorted the choice of individuals in favour of consumption. Thus, not only is the income tax unjust but it encourages consumption and leisure at the expense of thrift and enterprise.

.......

Kaldor argued that the best way to arrive at a person's spending power vis-a-vis his needs is to look at his day-to-day living expenses. He viewed income as an inferior measure of taxable capacity because it does not encompass spending power in other forms and takes no account of differences among individuals as to the need to save.

One major argument put forward against the expenditure tax is that by taking away savings from the tax-base, one tends to favour the rich, as they are in a better position to save larger portions of their incomes. This would render the proposition 'inequitable'. It may also lead to greater concentration of wealth in the hands of few. Kaldor addressed this criticism by arguing that the rates of an expenditure tax can be made steeply progressive in order to tax the rich heavily. One would be still better off, as a large part of the spending by the rich is out of capital, which is generally untouched by the income tax.

Another criticism of the consumption base is that it would favour the miser over the spendthrift, even where both had the same spending power or ability to pay. Kaldor's response to this objection goes to the basic rationale of the expenditure tax: People should be taxed on what they take out of the common pool, not on what they put into it. He argued that only by spending, and not by earning and saving, does the individual impose a burden on the rest of the community.

One generally accepted merit of the tax is that it would be highly effective as an anti-inflationary tool.

In contemporary India, income tax is largely a tax on the middle class salary earner. The poor hardly pays any income tax. The rich have dividends and capital gains as large part of their source of income rather than salaries. We could not believe the finance minister when he mentioned in his last Budget speech that only about 42,800 people have declared taxable income of over Rs. 1 crore annually. Further, 400,000 people (with incomes more than Rs. 20 lakh, and constituting 1 per cent of the tax-base) account for 63 per cent of the income taxes collected from individuals in an economy with a tax paying base of 3-4 crore people. Thus, 99 per cent of India's taxpaying people are being coerced into filing their tax-returns, while they pay miniscule amounts as tax on some pretext or other. The guys who pay up are mostly the salaried class, because they can't evade it, as it gets deducted as TDS.

The middle class - both salaried and non-salaried - who have demonstrated a renewed vigour in political participation in recent elections, would be enchanted by a proposal that reduces their net tax liabilities from existing 10-20 per cent to a mere 2 per cent! The BJP has a potential out-of-the-box match winning idea, especially since it hardly has anything on economic policy for 2014 general election. If some journalists aware of BJP core-thinking group are to be believed, the party is planning to pursue this idea vigorously.

But then how would the government make up for the loss in tax-revenue, if it were to scrap income taxes. As per 2013-14 Union Budget, personal income tax has been budgeted at Rs. 2,47,639 crore for the current fiscal year. This, as also in the past years, accounts for about 23 per cent of the total revenue receipts of the govt. The total gross tax revenue of the govt. (including the state's share) stands at about Rs. 12.4 lakh crore (budgeted) in the current fiscal. A two per cent Banking Transaction Tax on current banking transaction can potentially generate about Rs. 15 lakh crore - more than compensating for the loss.

The biggest criticism of the BTT is that a large fraction of consumption expenditure in India is still cash (83 per cent by my estimates in 2011, and informally verified by experts in Finance Ministry) and hence we would be leaving a large section of the population out of the tax-net. This is a fair criticism. But, then we surely would be moving up on the 'indifference curve' and getting closer to the Pareto Optimal choice. In plain-speak, the new proposed tax system would be more equitable than the existing one, without compromising on the revenue side.


Apart from the money that the middle class pays in forms of various taxes it's the fear & harassment done by IT officials that will drive people to this. One of my knowns had IT officials stay in their home for a week & got treated themselves as son-in-laws of the house. I don't think apart from an en-masse opposition from IT dept. officials anyone will oppose this. At best they can point out deficiencies which is good because it's a new system & bugs need to be removed early on. Only thing required now is a much hyped telecast of Modi one fine Sunday & Modi only lets out his vision on this issue. Booommm!!! Hold your dhotis post that!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 08 Jan 2014 19:17

now, why did the alleged attack took place on bushan? this can trigger negative feeling exponentially.

taking law into one's hands must be put to an end for all indics. we have to believe in a system rather.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SRoy » 08 Jan 2014 19:21

^^

oh yeah...the "system" which is built to destroy Indics.

No sir. I would very much like to have a parallel system that can squeeze the balls of anti-nationals if official framework is inadequate to punish them.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Singha » 08 Jan 2014 19:26

in my opinion, safe passage can only be considered if the enemy lays down arms and promises never to show up at our gates again.
in terms of politics it means they need to hand over their ill-gotten loot ..... this cannot be done as the loot is mostly abroad.

put them in a box until they are ready to rat on each other .... and then confess on live undieTV..denounce their network in true north korean or stalin era style :D .

Khan uncle even seems even more panicky than dynasty about namo - maybe he has promised them privately to UPROOT and DISMANTLE(in hindi there is a word 'ukhaar ke fek diya') their whole network of political and babucracy moles :)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby M Joshi » 08 Jan 2014 19:27

>> why did the alleged attack took place on bushan?

Yes. The "attack" by goons who brought a banner with them & showing it to the CCTV cameras in the office!! :rofl:

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 08 Jan 2014 19:57

nail the culprits asap.. nail them before they disrupt.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ranjbe » 08 Jan 2014 20:05

Atri wrote:
shaurya wrote:After studying in Pune for 4 yrs and interacting a lot with assal (real) punekar, I always got a sense that they don't care a damn about the glorious past and their achievements. Atri will bail me out on this one, since we have had tons of discussions dedicated to this topic. Its is also evident from the way they have maintained most of the historically important sites, barring exceptions. It thus gives a feeling of an out-and-out leftist regime there. Hence extrapolating national pride from mere education in Pune will be gross exaggeration in my eye.


:)

Post 1948, Pune is to Maharashtra what lutyens Delhi is to India. :P bunch of inconsequential windbags harping about past glory and perceived cultural superiority over uncouth and uncultured outsiders. That original PIF line of thinking has been severely castrated now. I think PVNR studied in the Hyd and then masters in Hislop college of nagpur. I do not know about him coming to Pune to study. In any case, he might have been in Pune prior to godse chapter when it actually was a ideologically vibrant city.


Atriji, I remeber that Fergusson College claimed both PVNR and VP Singh as alumni during their 100th anniversary celebrations. Wiki makes the same claim (see Notable alumni):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fergusson_College

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby darshhan » 08 Jan 2014 20:07

kmkraoind wrote:It seems BJP strategists want to field new faces as much as possible.
Image


He is trying to fool people. Actually if he stands, he will have to contest from Jamshedpur and there he doesn't stand any chance against the immensely popular candidate and sitting MP Dr. Ajay Kumar. Most likely Mr. Munda will even forefeit his deposit there (Jamaanat Jabt ho jayegi). And this is going to be extremely shameful for an Ex CM.

Hence by refusing to fight in elections he is just saving his Honor (Izzat bacha raha hai apni).

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby a_bharat » 08 Jan 2014 22:50

Rahul Mehta wrote:So people will do transactions via non-banks such as cash, gold, silver, dollar bills OR registered non-banks or use bond of some reputed company. Say X bought house from Y and in return paid bonds of some company A. There is NO transfer of rupee at bank. Hence tax collected is zero !! OR you need a whole draft to define transaction to plug 1000s of loopholes. Where is that draft?.

And how do you stop non-banks? Say every one in India has account in some Non-Banks. Each time A has to pay B, A will pay B via "I promise pay" aka hundi across one or two Non-Banks. At the year end, the Non-Banks will settle accounts . So only time one will withdraw rupee is when he has to buy something from Govt. So tax will be 2% of Govt business which be nowhere close to Rs 30 lakh crore of total Govt expenditure.

RMji,

I think we are getting somewhat OT here on this thread. Perhaps the discussion on TT can be moved to some other appropriate thread.

Your proposed alternative of "wealth tax" doesn't widen the tax base and will be similar to the current situation where a tiny portion of the over 1.2 billion population pays most of the direct taxes collected.

There may be some leakages with TT too, but I expect the situation to be much better than it is now. I don't think people will resort to trade in gold and silver or via hundi system to avoid a 2% transaction tax. Simply not practical and also there won't be any legal protection for non-bank transactions over say Rs. 2000. When notes above Rs. 50 are eliminated, a large volume of payments will have to take place electronically.

We may not have a perfect system, but, I would be happy with a good, simple system that collects tax from the entire population based on their consumption.

My main concern on the TT proposal is about the validity of the numbers -- the accuracy of projected volume of daily bank transactions.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby muraliravi » 08 Jan 2014 22:55

darshhan wrote:
kmkraoind wrote:It seems BJP strategists want to field new faces as much as possible.
Image


He is trying to fool people. Actually if he stands, he will have to contest from Jamshedpur and there he doesn't stand any chance against the immensely popular candidate and sitting MP Dr. Ajay Kumar. Most likely Mr. Munda will even forefeit his deposit there (Jamaanat Jabt ho jayegi). And this is going to be extremely shameful for an Ex CM.

Hence by refusing to fight in elections he is just saving his Honor (Izzat bacha raha hai apni).


You hit the nail buddy. He lost horribly to that Independent and hence this drama. He might have done a survey in Jharkhand and might have concluded that he has no winnable seat and where ever he can win, there are already other contenders within BJP who will not give him that seat. Now everything is making sense. This is the reason why Marandi is bargaining hard. He is telling BJP (in specific to Rajnath), tumhara ex-CM ek seat bhi nahi jeetsakta aur tum usko support karte ho. His game is very simple, I will ally with BJP for LS and give you 9 seats and I will contest in 5, but for vidhan sabha, I will be CM nominee.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vivek.rao » 09 Jan 2014 02:34

Modi has a secular image now

'Otherwise, the minorities would not have acknowledged his leadership quality. I am happy the BJP is working towards achieving a secular image,' Vellappally Natesan, the OBC leader in Kerala who has created a controversy by supporting Narendra Modi, tells Rediff.com's Shobha Warrier.

Vellappally Natesan is the general secretary of the Sree Narayana Dharmaparipalana Yogam, a social organisation of the Ezhava community of Kerala. The Ezhavas are an Other Backward Classes community in South Kerala, who are the most numerous among the state's Hindus.

In this exclusive interview from Kerala to Rediff.com's Shobha Warrier, Natesan, left, reveals why he supports Modi, who also belongs to an OBC community, as India's next PM.

The other day you said the country would not go to dogs if Narendra Modi became prime minister. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has said it would be disastrous if Modi were to become the PM.

What can he, the prime minister from the Congress party, say, except such things about Modi? After all, he is also a politician.

There is no doubt that there is a Modi wave all over the country.

I am sure under Modi, the BJP will become the single largest party in the 2014 Lok Sabha election though it may not get a majority of its own.

Let me ask you, why does the Congress have to suffer such a steep fall?

With corruption in high places, the party's image has taken such a bad beating.

To top it all, the life of ordinary people has become so difficult with price rise and inflation.

When things look so bad at the Centre, people see a bright spot in Modi.

Was it because Modi spoke about development that he was accepted by many voters in the states that went to polls recently?

The miracle he has achieved in Gujarat is there for all to see.

Though the Opposition party used the 2002 riots against him in the elections that came later, he won in grand style, not once but twice.

What should we understand from his unprecedented victory? That, the people of Gujarat, irrespective of their castes and religions, voted for him in large numbers, and he won with a bigger margin.

Though the Congress had been consistently campaigning against Modi not only in Gujarat but all over India that there were riots in Gujarat, thousands died in the state, and Modi was communal, their smear campaign did not have the desired effect on Modi.

With each test, with each election, he is coming back with more and more strength and shining brighter.

It shows the people of Gujarat are extremely satisfied with his administration, and the development work he is doing for them.


Kerala is one state that has only been experimenting with the Left Democratic Front and the United Democratic Front for many years. The BJP has not been able to make any inroads here.

Will Modi be able to make any impact here this time?

The political atmosphere in Kerala is totally different from what you see in other parts of the country.

Here, only these two fronts have any chance of coming to power; there is no Third Front here and so, the chances of the BJP winning seats are very, very bleak.

Though it is true that Modi is extremely good and he could influence voters in other parts of the country, he will not be able to create a vote bank here and influence Kerala voters.

That is because even those who appreciate and support Modi know very well that even if they voted for a BJP candidate, the chances of the candidate winning are not good at all. So, they do not vote for the BJP and waste their votes.

It is not because they do not support Modi, but only because there is no space for anyone other than the two political fronts here.

The biggest tragedy of the BJP is that it has not been able to have a single MP from Kerala so far.

The reason, according to me, is the party has not been able to bring in any new face; you see the same old faces and those faces have not been giving any confidence to the people.

The party needs dynamic young people and a new working style.

Do you feel even if Modi tries the BJP will not succeed in Kerala?

Yes. As things stand, I don't think the BJP will be able to win even one seat.

You have spoken in support of Modi. Will it have an impact on the Ezhava community? Will the Ezhavas vote for the BJP because of your support?

I was not airing my views as general secretary of the SNDP.

What I said was, if you analyse what Modi has done so far, it has been praise-worthy.

I said, because of his very good record as the chief minister of a state, he has all the credentials to be the prime minister and lead the country.

My views have no political angle to it.


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