Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Shanmukh
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Shanmukh » 03 Feb 2014 21:33

Okay, folks. Getting some more feedback from the Jats in the region. It seems that a lot of villagers are being harassed by police with often false cases of rioting. The people (not just Jats) would have welcomed legal help from the BJP in stopping this harassment by the SP incited police. I am no legal expert, but isn't there something that the BJP's legal cell can do to stop these blanket harassment tricks of the SP? Can anyone and everyone be accused of riots as and when it suits the SP thugs?

Added: This is a great opportunity for the BJP, but it is also a huge opportunity for the AAP. Their left wing NGOs are good at this - helping people legally. If the BJP does not move fast, it is going to lose a huge opportunity to the AAP.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby fanne » 03 Feb 2014 21:41

That is where BJP can step in- Call it Modi Nyay parishad - Offer them help!! I am sure you can find many lawyers who would volunteer!!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sagar G » 03 Feb 2014 22:13

Depending upon the number which I assume is big BJP legal cell will be hard-pressed to offer free legal advice to everybody and assuming that they aren't overburdened with party work. Left NGO's and other turds won't be able to do that because they would then stand directly against the maulana which he won't definitely like since left was/is looking for an alliance with him.

Good idea though, get in contact with BJP legal cell in UP and ask them to do whatever they can and we must also have right oriented NGO's as well so they must also be contacted. Post about it in mission 272+ site and see what response you get.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Shanmukh » 03 Feb 2014 22:32

Sagar G wrote:Depending upon the number which I assume is big BJP legal cell will be hard-pressed to offer free legal advice to everybody and assuming that they aren't overburdened with party work. Left NGO's and other turds won't be able to do that because they would then stand directly against the maulana which he won't definitely like since left was/is looking for an alliance with him.


No, saar. Left NGOs would not mind pulling down the police. Filing charges is what counts for the RoPers, and left libs would try to get everyone out of trouble. The leftists don't want to send anyone except hardcore BJP type folks to prison. The innocent harassed are their mark. They play all sides of the game.

Good idea though, get in contact with BJP legal cell in UP and ask them to do whatever they can and we must also have right oriented NGO's as well so they must also be contacted. Post about it in mission 272+ site and see what response you get.


Already posted it on the Mission 272+ site. Will try to reach the UP BJP legal cell too, and send them this feedback. I know for sure that individual lawyers associated with the BJP and BKU were already offering free legal services to the affected people. I don't know if the BJP can assist them all, but they should sure make an effort to help as much as they can. Also, it will be a very good idea for the BJP to set up a legal wing that is totally dedicated to assisting the affected in riots False charges are very common, particularly when riots are perpetrated by the RoPers. Given that riots occur very commonly in India, the BJP should have a chance to deal with the Congoons, their secular friends, and their thugs, and prevent them from harassing individuals.
Last edited by Shanmukh on 03 Feb 2014 22:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby JohnTitor » 03 Feb 2014 22:42

kittoo wrote:Wow! I see some people here discarding the Saffron crowd as of no use. People using words like 'they are only 5%', 'they can vote for someone else if they want' and more. Really? This is the crowd that made BJP, got it into power. This is the crowd still on streets for BJP, this is the crowd giving their resources to BJP. This is the crowd that actually fights on the streets, when push comes to shove. People are acting as if just acknowledging the riots and dead would have been a blunder. How so? If we cant even do that, forget about other Hindu causes. Forget about fighting Jihad. Yeah the Jats voted for Congress for all these years, but they are now willing to do their bit for Hindutva so I am not going to indulge in schadenfreude when Modi doesnt mention the riots and they feel slighted. This is the same thinking that has lead to defeat of Hindus again and again. I never thought I would see a day on BRF when the core saffron crowd would be made fun of.
Nobody is denying development is important. Hell, nobody is saying that Modi should've become Rambo about Hinduism. All people here are saying is that he could've mentioned it (even the last time, during Shauchalaya vs Devalaya debate, people werent saying that he shouldnt develop Shauchalayas. People were saying that he could've avoided the comparison.). How hard is it to understand?
Also, just by criticizing Modi on something, we arent going to not vote for him or do our bit to make him PM. I will do everything in my power to make him PM. I will be on cloud 9 when and if he becomes PM. But that doesnt mean I have no right to criticize him over my core issues. That doesnt mean I suddenly become worse than enemies for him.
Have all the development and no cultural solidarity, and it will be of no use. Same the other way around. Come on, guys!

+1

Chandragupta wrote:Have folks in Meerut & Muzaffarnagar. For whatever its worth, getting news that the locals are disappointed with Modi not talking about the riots & he should have been much more powerful in his speech. I hope Modi's advisers pick this up & make amends. Also, he needs to cut down on his mentions of Sadbhavana & unity and brotherhood. Not saying that he talk Hindutva but why talk about universal brotherhood and all?

Also, this 'vote for India' and all is good for urban voters but I personally found it useless in a semi-urban/rural setting. He should stick to Vande Mataram & Bharat Mata ki Jai, they evoke more emotions than angrezi 'vote for india'.

All in all, I would say it is a missed opportunity. Jats were so in the bag, now they are not.

+1

nageshks wrote:
Look - the missing part was empathy for the victims. That emotional ploy should have been played, without any remark about any community. He could have started by saying `Let us hold two minutes silence for the dead in recent riots'. His whole audience comprised of lakhs of Jats. They would have understood his words in context.

Then he could have said that he understood the pain of those who had been affected, and that his government would do everything to ensure the return of good law and order to the state.

What was missing was not any screeching rants about Hindutva. What was needed was a solid assurance that he acknowledged the pain of the dead and the wounded, and that people could depend on him for the return of law and order. None of this would have been remotely communal. But he missed that, and the Jats feel taken for granted.

This is an excellent idea. I wish NM used this. 2min of silence would have sent the message without having to say anything. Using "all victims" would automatically have been understood because of the victims affiliation. Still better, he could have visited the camps where there are a lot of jats, this would have sent the right message too. Since there are muslims there as well, it wouldnt have been "communal" (It would have been a very decent thing to do, I still don't see why this can't be done). Afterall, several politicians have visited the camps.


All said and done, I am of the belief that NM is not going to do an ABV. His grounding in Sri Vivekananda has a meaning which many of you don't realise. It is not just another name he has latched onto like the congis latch onto gandhi. Similarly, the way he has maintained the Somnath temple speaks for itself. I don't think his non-mention of the the muzafnagar riots is an accident, it was missed out with a purpose, perhaps to ensure that he doesn't trigger the very same thing he wants to prevent, though not even hinting at it seems to have back-fired.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sagar G » 03 Feb 2014 22:49

nageshks wrote:No, saar. Left NGOs would not mind pulling down the police. Filing charges is what counts for the RoPers, and left libs would try to get them out of trouble. The leftists don't want to send anyone except hardcore BJP type folks to prison. The innocent harassed are their mark. They play all sides of the game.


If so then all good left turds supporting pissfools will only polarise jats towards BJP. Win Win situation. If a few more BJP politicians have to spend a few nights in jail then all the more good don't forget the Varun Gandhi incident and the fallout.

nageshks wrote:Already posted it on the Mission 272+ site. Will try to reach the UP BJP legal cell too, and send them this feedback. I know for sure that individual lawyers associated with the BJP and BKU were already offering free legal services to the affected people. I don't know if the BJP can assist them all, but they should sure make an effort to help as much as they can. Also, it will be a very good idea for the BJP to set up a legal wing that is totally dedicated to assisting the affected in riots False charges are very common, particularly when riots are perpetrated by the RoPers. Given that riots occur very commonly in India, the BJP should have a chance to deal with the Congoons, their secular friends, and their thugs, and prevent them from harassing individuals.


Good you did that also if through some channel you can deliver a message to Amit Shah regarding the same then that would be great but do all this below the radar.

BJP must not associate itself directly with defending the riot victims since it would give media pimps a chance to cry horse and we cannot risk that till we haven't taken these elements down from MSM which will hopefully happen post 2014 Namo win. Anything must be done from behind the doors in complete stealth mode so that maulana doesn't get to know ever what hit him and from where. These things need to be done very subtly without raising anyone's eyebrows or giving anybody from media a chance to wail on MSM.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Shanmukh » 03 Feb 2014 23:21

Sagar G wrote:
nageshks wrote:No, saar. Left NGOs would not mind pulling down the police. Filing charges is what counts for the RoPers, and left libs would try to get them out of trouble. The leftists don't want to send anyone except hardcore BJP type folks to prison. The innocent harassed are their mark. They play all sides of the game.


If so then all good left turds supporting pissfools will only polarise jats towards BJP. Win Win situation. If a few more BJP politicians have to spend a few nights in jail then all the more good don't forget the Varun Gandhi incident and the fallout.


The only danger is that, if more innocents are helped by left libs, they might be inclined to vote for the AAP or Congress, even. Better for BJP to be first on the scene and start helping innocents before others pounce in. But yes, I have posted it in India272, and also sent a few messages to my BJP contacts, particularly in the IT cell and Karnataka BJP (still finding a way to reach Amit Shah). Let us see what replies I get from my current contacts.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Yagnasri » 03 Feb 2014 23:39

Know a top BJP party lawyer in Supreme Court and will give him a ring tomorrow. Also will give the feed back from Jat people. But people I have spoken in Jat community are quite sure of the support to BJP. BJP also shall do support actions to Jats in false police cases etc. Ground work is very improtant. Save a youth from a Jat village and you own full votes of the village. I am sure Amit Shah and others are working on the same lines.

Sushma suprisingly anti Telagana bill today. All regional parties SP and others also. Kamalnath is making allegations of U turn on Telangana by BJP. Parliament is going to witness a fresh no confidence motion moved by congress MPs from costal AP. They claim 70 people support it and if that is true then the motion will be accpted for discussion. May be we see mafia lose power thorugh a no confidence motion before elections itself.

All departments for Delhi and verious states like UP are having advertisements on TV. Full spending of public money. Even from Gujarath state.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 04 Feb 2014 00:03

Did I watch the same speech that you/Jats watched? He talked about dhangas and how he will give a riot-free environment. I think that is a direct acknowledgement and support.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby harbans » 04 Feb 2014 00:29

Narendra Modi as India’s Prime Minister will be the biggest tectonic shift of India’s Economic and Political center ever since Independence. It will splurge several notches to the right. What was considered far right on the economic scene will become commonplace center and so also what was considered far right on the political spectrum be considered the appropriate center of discourse.


Modi as PM: A Titanic shift of center of political and economic discourse

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Feb 2014 00:30

Jats may be the key to UP this time. Some 14 MP seats can be won by mobilising Jat vote bank for Indic side. So for Jat plus Muslim votes were going to people like Ajit singh. Time to change that and MuNagar riots now gave a oppertunity. So getting their votes is vital. We have to understand that there are simply too many forces working to stop Indic win in GE. Modi is under intense media, naxal jhola EJ mafia, jihadi attack wing gora powers trying their level best through fordstars of Delhi. Already one attempt on his life may have been made in Patna.

While I do agree that he should have shown more empathy towards Jat victims of the riots, there are serious limitations to what he can personally say or do. He is allowing others to do and say things.

We all need to appriciate these things. He becoming secular ? It simply does not happen. He may not open with his ideas but action will be there. Both long term and short term. Great thing about him is that he listens to feedback and changes things when got a good advise. Gurus can send it on web sites of his.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SBajwa » 04 Feb 2014 00:37

Let me brush up on Jats (Since I am a Jat myself).

Traditionally Jats are very proud people which means NEVER to ask for help EVER and fix the issues themselves. Having their womenfolks even looked at in a jest (or now raped) use to mean "Sarvansh Naas" i.e. "Finishing the line" of the culprit (Kill everybody of the family of the culprit).

Famous Jats are (Warriors)
Jat Suraj Mal who ruled the area around Delhi and Mughals could not subdue him.
Kapur Singh Virk (Who freed the area around Amritsar from Mughals)
Maharaja Ranjit Singh
Akali Phula Singh
all the 10 of the 13 Sikh bands (misls) that ruled between Yamuna and Indus were Jats.

---- Famous modern Jats (Military, warriors , etc)
Capt. Ishar Singh and all the 23 Sikh soldiers at Saragarhi
Shish Ram Gill V.C
Risaldar Badlu Singh VC
Shaheed Bhagat Singh
S. Nirmaljit Singh Sekhon PVC.
Hoshiar Singh Dahiya PVC.
Gen. Gurbaksh Singh Dhillon (1965 war)


Famous current personalities.
Dara Singh
Dharmendra
Navjot Singh Sidhu
Saina Nehwal
Vijender Singh
Sushil Kumar
Virendra Sehwag.

and so forth..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jats

Here are few quotes about Jats.
1. If you have killed a Jat do not consider him dead until 13 days have passed.
JAT mara jab jaaniye Tehraami leh hoye

2. A Jat's punch is closer than the Justice of God.
Rabb kolo nere hai Ghasun Jatt da.

3. A Jat is killed by another Jat or God.
Jat nu ya to Jat Maare, Ya Maare Kartar

4. One Jat Jat., Two Jats party., three Jats leaders.. four Jats Army.
ek jaat jaat.....do jaat mauj.....teen jaat thaath....or char jaat fauz

5. jat risky after ek balti wisky

6. Main Haryana Ka Jat, Pyar ki hammi bhar lyuoonga. Teen Paanch mat kariye, Varna Gode nicche dhar lyuoonga

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby gandharva » 04 Feb 2014 02:26

I believe this PeeVee guy over anyone else on matters related to UP/BIHAR.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vivek.rao » 04 Feb 2014 02:28

While we are arguing about Modi & Jats, a new front has been opened against Modiji by yet another pricenton PhD.

The writer is a lawyer and PhD candidate at Princeton University. Part of his research deals with the Supreme Court intervention into the 2002 Gujarat riots investigation


Reading the clean chit

Now that all the ammunition against Modi has been spent trying to fix him as encouraging riots, now the scums want to use SIT clean chit and open up a new front.

The 2002 Gujarat riots did not happen because Narendra Modi authorised the killing of Muslims that cold February. The longer we dwell on his direct role — for which evidence is thin — the longer his “clean chit” will be used to wipe out two other crimes. The first of those is the role BJP politicians, Sangh Parivar members and police officials played in the killing of more than a thousand Muslims early that year


For this there is evidence. The other crime is the follow up. It is a scandal that the conviction rate in the riot cases pursued by the Modi state government is just 5 per cent. In contrast, in those trials where the Supreme Court outsourced investigation, prosecution and witness protection away from the Gujarat state government, I estimate the conviction rate to be 39 per cent. This is nearly eight times better than the Gujarat government. These are crimes no clean chit should erase. How then is it happening?


He is accused of ordering his top officials, in a meeting on February 27, 2002, to stand by while Hindus vented their anger against Muslims for the death of Hindus at the Godhra train station that morning. There is little evidence for this. The only man who claims he heard this is suspended police officer Sanjiv Bhatt. This is a man who woke up nine years later to accuse Modi, whose wife ran on a Congress ticket against Modi. And this is a man whose lone testimony has been contested by the several officers who were actually at the meeting that evening.

The other “evidence” against Modi — call records but no real conversations, private testimonies to retired judges — do not a legal case make. The Supreme Court-appointed Special Investigation Team was correct to say this, the magistrate right to agree. Modi’s personal criminal responsibility for the 2002 riots is no worse than Rajiv Gandhi’s for the 1984 anti-Sikh riots, Sudhakarrao Naik’s for the 1992-93 Mumbai riots, and every chief minister’s for riots that have happened under his watch. Let’s end that campaign once and for all.


That’s the real scandal of Gujarat: a party whose members killed, whose government allowed it, and whose police and prosecutors are now asleep at the wheel.


The first is the Congress party. Playing politics, it refused to question a culture that prevents Muslims from buying houses in middle class Ahmedabad, a local bureaucracy that sees Muslims as trouble, and an RSS and VHP machinery that exploits this social consensus for political ends. For crying out loud, the current leader of the Congress in Gujarat, Shankarsinh Vaghela, helped create the RSS network in Gujarat (as did then pal Narendra Modi).
Instead of breaking the social and political networks that allowed the Gujarat riots, the Congress has chosen the soft option of going after Modi. It cannily uses the spectre of Modi to haunt minorities into voting for it. That Modi plays along — Muslim-baiting to get the Hindu vote — ensures a jugalbandi in which both the Congress and Modi are happy to paint the chai-wallah’s son as the face of those riots. As Nazir Khan Pathan, a witness to the killing of 97 Muslims in Naroda Patiya, told me: “[Both the] BJP and Congress scare us. One to get Hindu votes, the other to get our votes.”
The second, unwitting culprits are some of the same NGOs and civil society groups who have so doggedly fought for the Gujarat victims. I spoke to members of the four main NGO groups who have been fighting the legal battle on behalf of the victims. All wanted to remain anonymous to avoid antagonising those they work with (for an activism that promotes transparency, their culture of silence is quite loud). But they were privately critical about how their struggle has been hijacked to stop Modi from becoming prime minister. A repeat figure for censure was Teesta Setalvad. One lawyer said Setalvad’s relentless bid to “get Modi” was at the cost of drafting carefully researched legal petitions.
Another derided the quality of the Zakia Jaffrey petition (against Modi) as being rushed. Not all were critical; the victims at Naroda Patiya, for instance, praised the effort put in by Setalvad. But this “get Modi at all costs” strategy has ended up obscuring those who actually murdered, raped and burned with impunity.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby disha » 04 Feb 2014 02:52

^^^ Somebody needs to invite Vinay Sitapati to the Bojitive News USA thread... He has lived a cocooned life and needs to live some years in the boondocks ...

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby KLP Dubey » 04 Feb 2014 02:56

vivek.rao wrote:While we are arguing about Modi & Jats, a new front has been opened against Modiji by yet another pricenton PhD.

The writer is a lawyer and PhD candidate at Princeton University. Part of his research deals with the Supreme Court intervention into the 2002 Gujarat riots investigation


Who is this monkey to "open a new front" ? Totally insignificant fellow talking nonsense. Never heard of him before, and likely won't hear much of him in a week.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Karan M » 04 Feb 2014 03:02

disha wrote:^^^ Somebody needs to invite Vinay Sitapati to the Bojitive News USA thread... He has lived a cocooned life and needs to live some years in the boondocks ...


there is no shortage of useful idiots whom india exports and massa seems to have a knack of picking out such fellers who will gladly do HR rhona dhona work in India, to get their cushy life in massa.. IMO, high time all these fellers were promptly told India has no need of their visits etc if all they wish to do is political activism in the guise of Q-tiyapanti aka NGO panti.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_23365 » 04 Feb 2014 03:16

The kind of comments by some forum members against the Jats could be avioded for sure.
Now why does BJP pamper Jats when they are shunned by other political parties. Simple reason BJP needs Jat votes. This election is for BJP to loose.
I agree with Nageshksji is assessment, something should have been said or some symbolic gestures should have been made by Namo.
During riots, all the preventive arrest done was of Jats. Jats licencesed weapon were confisticated. Adminstration was working against Jats. Jat officer or other who were objecting the bias were transferred out. All in all mulla yadav did give a free run to peacfuls. Peacfuls were angry with mulla yadav b'cos even with all that one sided approach and biase against them, Jats fiery was too hot for them to control and thats why Army was called in. In the end the pissfuls were at recieving end.
After things settled down, MMS, Sonia, Ajit Singh, every one was doing photoshop with pissfuls.
Given that Backdrop something should have been said by Namo.
Secondly, Congi and Ajit will try everything to keep the votebank. They will try to pollute the minds of Jats. But so far I have not recieved any adverse reports. Something stealth should be done as mentioned by Nageshksji since lot of Jat youth are still in Jail.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 04 Feb 2014 05:00

^+1.

This is potentially significant... reminiscent of the heydays of RJB it would seem at first glance but not quite, really...

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby LakshO » 04 Feb 2014 05:43

To break the heavy duty Modi & Jat narrative, here is some 'light' material :D

How many RGs does it take to change a light bulb

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_25682 » 04 Feb 2014 06:55

Guru Log,
Can anyone help, Give idea ? How do we go about asking Ted to invite Rajiv Malhotra ji ?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Rahul Mehta » 04 Feb 2014 07:09

KJoishy wrote:When will we have a Hindutva version of America's FoxNews?


We have Sudershan channel. I wont compare with FoxNews as I dont recall what FoxNews looked like and I dont know what it look likes now. But Sundershan channel is Hinduvaadi. But then, why is Sudershan channel not getting even 1% views? And IMO, we activists dont need a Hindutva based channel.

There are two ways to promote news\views in society.

1. One can give entertainment including soft p1rn , make Siddhu type jokes and show enuches like Guthi , and blend news\views with that entertainment.

2. Second is have a channel which gives serious workable solutions to ALL problems -- economic, social, politics, Military, demographic etc. Not even one topic can be excluded.

(1) will attract commons directly. And (2) will attract true activists. And from activists, news\views will reach to commons. But important thing for (2) is --- ALL important problems must be addressed. Not even one important problem can be excluded in the name of timing and strategy. The true-activists know that right time to solve a problem is right now, and all the argument of timing and strategy is hogwash.

Sudharshan is losing against MNC-media because it doesnt have money to create entertainment. So (1) is out of question. And Sudershan keeps silence on solutions to economic problems because it is funded by Indian elitemen who are part of the problem and they oppose solutions. And so pro-poor activists stopped watching Sudershan channel. And trust me, over 90% true-activists across world are pro-poor.

VHP-apex too asked all its pro-poor proo-Hinduvadi activists to dump their pro-poor demands. So all pro-poor pro-Hinduvadi left VHP. And VHP is now dead.

====

Solution? IMO, if activists want Hinduvadi media, then should form small groups across India, collect funds and give newspaper advt in mainstrem newspapers. Thats what I have been doing for past 5 years. For details, pls see chap-10 of http://rahulmehta.com/301.htm .

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Altair » 04 Feb 2014 08:02

KJoishy wrote:When will we have a Hindutva version of America's FoxNews?


I dont like Fox News but a Jingo Bharateeya Channel is definitely a really good idea. I would like to take one step further.
Why cant we start with a 30 Minute Program everyday and then take it forward to as a news channel once wee feel we are ready. Its like what Prannoy Roy did when they were with Star Plus.
I think BRF has enough news to fill 30 minutes daily.
We need to gather an editorial team and plan a pilot project. I am sure we can fund ourselves for a 30 Minute airtime.

ramana garu
What do you think?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 04 Feb 2014 08:17

The choice couldn't be more stark...

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby bhavani » 04 Feb 2014 08:18

Why dont we plan something on the lines of a internet channel like Young turks for Indian Jingos.

That should give us a good coverage

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Rahul Mehta » 04 Feb 2014 08:29

Those who claim that NaMo is NOT becoming neo-ABV,

Well, you guys made tall claims on what ABv would deliver in 1995. And in 2004, you were making same tall claims that "LKA will deliver what we promised in 1995". And now it is NaMo. Names change, promises remain same. Now the reason I dont wish to agree is track record of BJP. Every BJP leader after coming into power has significantly diluted. And in Gujarat, VHP has weakened and demoralized to an extent that if today there is Godhara, then VHP cadre will simply sit home and not come out at all. You have very convinient argument against us NaMo-skeptics "how do can you make claims about future?" and argument is true at face value as no one has seen future and all claims and all doubts about future are weak.

Forget silence on Muzzafernagar riots. The silence of all BJP-leaders on Sonia's decision to suppress religion\language data of census-2011 is appalling. I have been ringing this alarm bell, but your ears seem to be selectively deaf. If a party has chosen to ignore population control and even statistics related to it, then to me , it is a very serious issue. Once can always justify and rationalize silence on key issues as timing and strategy. But things can also be otherwise.

Now you all make promises that NaMo will NOT become ABV after 2014. I cant make or admit such claims. Because in case NaMo becomes ABV in jun-2014, then you will just throw the towel and move on. Whereas I have a small number of junior activists I have to answer to. I cant throw towel and move on, because in such case, they will become disillusioned and lose interest in activism for life. So unless I see design, I cant say "have faith in NaMo". And there is no design backing NaMo. Which is why I tell people that "if you want to vote for good law-drafts then you vote for candidates who has promoted good law-drafts ; and if you want good or less bad PM, then vote for NaMo with zero guarantee because a PM with no design is 10 times more likely to fail than deliver".



==

Those who worry that NaMo is NOT becoming neo-ABV,

I dont think there is any reason to worry. The activists can attain Tridevalaya , population control, expel Bangldeshi, strengthen Military

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby johneeG » 04 Feb 2014 09:11

bhavani wrote:Why dont we plan something on the lines of a internet channel like Young turks for Indian Jingos.

That should give us a good coverage



Great idea, saar.

johneeG wrote:As to what format would be best:
I think there are several types of formats that can be used for this kind of work:
a) A documentary type video(say a duration of 1-2hrs).
b) A pdf or word file or blog.
c) A powerpoint presentation
d) short utube videos(say a duration of less than 5-10 mins). Preferably a utube channel with several such short videos.

I don't think any of these requires much finance. The documentary(of 1-2hrs) would be most difficult to make. But, that can be best to way to get anyone to give a single and simple shot of info.

PDF or Word file or blog can be exhaustive.

Powerpoint presentation would be to make main points, quickly and effectively.

youtube channel with several short utube videos can be best for publicity. This, IMHO, would be most effective(if the idea is to reach as many people as possible).

Important point is to present things so that it is understandable to laymen. Perhaps, give lots of examples and sprinkle some witty humour to keep the people's attention, at least initially. Once, they are hooked up, they can also contribute(especially Indians).

I may not be able to contribute in anyway, so just giving ideas that others can develop... :((


Link

johneeG wrote:Venug saar,
thats a very good index. I think one can create short utube(2-20min) videos one each topic. Once the list is complete, then one can use these short videos to compile a documentary type video(1-2hrs). The material of the utube videos can be directly used, or it can be a rehearsal for more professional job on documentary video.


Link

I think one can start with a utube channel and then progress from there. There are two options:
a) create videos similar to Rahul Mehta saar.
b) create video with voice narration and pics/videos.

A small voluntary editorial team needs to be constituted. And others can post their suggestions and material in a thread from where the editorial team can pick and choose. Once enough videos are there on utube. A new internet channel can be created and progress from there. A lot can be done especially if a new pro-Bhaaratheeya sarkaar is formed in 2014.

BRF has huge info on many issues, many talented and knoweldgable folks. It can definitely create such videos or channels. That would allow this info to reach greater number of people.

Different topics can be covered:
1) news on military equipment and security situation.
2) Bakis
3) Positive news from Bakis.
4) Aryan-invasion theory and Out of Bhaarath Theory.
5) news on Bhaarath's security situation.
6) Devayani issue.
7) Positive news from Amirkhan.
8 ) a weekly news update on major topics of the week.
...etc

One can even have televised/or only audio of debates/discussions that can be put up in utube.

I think the first step is to find a volunteer who can either 'star' in the videos like Rahul Mehta saar or give voice narration. Then, the content needs to be decided. Then, start by making small videos(2-20min). And then collate the info of these videos to create larger videos of 1-2 hrs.

----
Mehta saar,
your suggestion is hare-brained. Rightnow, there is no mechanism to vote for good drafts. One has to vote for good candidates and hope that they bring in good drafts. Anyway, how can people decide whether a draft is good or not? It takes a lot of knowledge, time, clarity and foresight to decide whether a draft is good or not. Many people are supporting a Janlokpal. Does that mean, its a good idea?

Ultimately, its not the drafts or bills that rule the people. Its the people that govern. The buck stops with the leaders. Hiding behind the bills or rules is not right. If you don't trust a leader, then there is no point in drafts or bill also, isn't it? I mean are all the laws of Bhaarath properly implemented? Why not? Because of the people.

I think you are making a mistake by putting cart before the horse. First the leader, then the bills, not the other way around. Even if there are good bills/drafts, bad leaders can change them, ignore them or violate them. The same laws apply in entire country. How come some places are better governed than others? Why is there a difference in law and order situation despite the same laws? Its because of the people implementing them starting from the netha to babu to judge to media and so on.

So, the need is to get the right people into right jobs. Then, one can demand good drafts and all that.

Anyway, your allegation that NaMo is becoming ABv has no basis. And thats the problem. Anyone can make a mistake or an omission or have difference of opinion. Obviously, all your juniors will not agree with you on all issues 100%. Do all of them completely understand all your drafts and bills? Yet, they trust you, thats why they follow you(even if they don't completely trust you, they think you are serving some useful purpose). The same applies at larger level to PM/CM candidates also.

No democracy can work if people are expected to read and learn about every draft before it is passed in parliament. All the people don't have that inclination, time, energy and knowledge to go into every issue deeply. Infact, even the elected representatives lack the knowledge for indepth understanding of all the issues. People judge the leaders based on the final outcome and thats the correct way. One can create all sorts of facades to hide the inefficiency or corruption. Creating drafts or bills is also one such way to hide the inefficiency or corruption. Bills or drafts are useless unless they are properly implemented. And to implement them, one needs leaders. People judge the leaders on whether their lifestyle has improved or not. They judge on the basis of whether their core concerns have been met or not. They look for real and tangible issues. Not hypothetical or theoretical drafts or bills.

Where there is a will, there is a bill. But, bill without a will, is merely a showpiece.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_20317 » 04 Feb 2014 09:56

Atri wrote:11 rupee BPL issue is more serious at this point. has to be resolved fast.. lapse of guard by bjp and guj govt..


Atri garu, don't worry. An increase in the limit from 11/17 to WT_ is not going to bring additional families in. This criterion is in addition to the ones already prescribed. That is how they brought 11 lac additional families into the BPL list which were getting left out otherwise. Have some faith garu. Those who are the beneficiaries are the ones who will understand. And people who discover morality 1-1.5 months before the elections having slept for last 8 years are hardly your voters.


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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krishnan » 04 Feb 2014 11:35

Image

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krishnan » 04 Feb 2014 11:36


Hari Seldon
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 04 Feb 2014 11:46

BSP is our only challenge in UP: Amit Shah

Must read interview of that behind the scenes mastermind from ground zero in UP in the hindustan times.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby prahaar » 04 Feb 2014 12:00

Hari Seldon wrote:BSP is our only challenge in UP: Amit Shah

Must read interview of that behind the scenes mastermind from ground zero in UP in the hindustan times.


This guy seems to know his stuff based on the level headed responses. Neither does he talk down the AAP challenge nor does he underestimate BSP captive vote. Also good to see the risks associated candidate selection being mentioned explicitly.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Feb 2014 12:03

Sagar G wrote:BJP must not associate itself directly with defending the riot victims since it would give media pimps a chance to cry horse and we cannot risk that till we haven't taken these elements down from MSM which will hopefully happen post 2014 Namo win. Anything must be done from behind the doors in complete stealth mode so that maulana doesn't get to know ever what hit him and from where. These things need to be done very subtly without raising anyone's eyebrows or giving anybody from media a chance to wail on MSM.


Actually right now, BJP shouldn't worry at all about MSM. Whatever poison MSM spews again Modi/BJP is only going to make people stay in Modi/BJP camp more.

Right now all publicity is good publicity is the motto for BJP, they should just ignore the MSM completely with as much contempt as possible.

This contempt will make media more angry and they rake up even more ridiculous issues against NaMo; thus falling more in the eyes of people.

Unfortunately this is one area where dilli billi jaitley is leading BJP on the wrong path. That is to have a good relations with media.

I remember in the last press conference, when ravi shankar prasad was pointing to a journo loudly "next question from you...", jaitley immediately put out a hand saying "aaram se", (gently).

He is wrong.

Right now is NaMo's time; like in 84' elections it was rajiv's time so whoever spoke against him was seen by the people as anti-national and was defeated. BJP took the biggest hit as they were the most harsh critics of rajiv.

Watch Mayawati carefully; she's the shrewdest politician like mulayam and lalu. She is hardly speaking against NaMo.

Why?

Because she knows at this time speaking against NaMo will alienate many voters from her. Just as shrewd khujliwal had told his supporters not to speak against NaMo during Delhi elections.

Right now is NaMo moment. It'll never be so again. So right now they shouldn't worry about 'log kya kahenge aur media kya kahega...'

I don't know why he didn't speak in Jat favour, inspite of having a genius like Amit Shah doing ground work there in western UP. Maybe just speaking for jats would have alienated gujjars-upper caste and other OBCs perhaps?

But he could have spoken of 'Tushtikaran' by mulayam party and congis. Support and sheltered being given on religious vote bank basis.

But with Amit Shah knowing ground intelligence and also Sh. Kalyan Singh's inputs might have been their. Maybe we'll never know reasons for this mistake

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Adrija » 04 Feb 2014 12:08

The gameplan for CongI is to spark communal riots using BJP as an excuse, so that the "middle class/ economic growth/youth looking for jobs" crowd is alienated and made to vote CongI as "BJP will be too hotheaded and not focus on growth". Had NaMo even as much as mentioned what we all here have been clamouring him to do in the Meerut rally, he would have fallen straight into that trap

Gents, please have faith and patience, just a few more months now..........the appropriate people ARE focusing on reaffirming the core message to those who need to be reassured, and NaMO is doing what he needs to do......... please keep the faith

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby manju » 04 Feb 2014 12:39

Altair wrote:
KJoishy wrote:When will we have a Hindutva version of America's FoxNews?


I dont like Fox News but a Jingo Bharateeya Channel is definitely a really good idea. I would like to take one step further.
Why cant we start with a 30 Minute Program everyday and then take it forward to as a news channel once wee feel we are ready. Its like what Prannoy Roy did when they were with Star Plus.
I think BRF has enough news to fill 30 minutes daily.
We need to gather an editorial team and plan a pilot project. I am sure we can fund ourselves for a 30 Minute airtime.

ramana garu
What do you think?


I like this idea.. willing to contribute

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby VikramS » 04 Feb 2014 12:53

More than a news program, Indians need to get a more balanced perspective of the world.

Most English speaking Indians suffer from some form of "Difference Anxiety" as RajM puts it.

This information asymmetry, as addressed by hakim jee's thread should become common knowledge.

May be someone's goat could start spreading the positive news to begin with.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Javee » 04 Feb 2014 13:32

Altair wrote:
KJoishy wrote:When will we have a Hindutva version of America's FoxNews?


I dont like Fox News but a Jingo Bharateeya Channel is definitely a really good idea. I would like to take one step further.
Why cant we start with a 30 Minute Program everyday and then take it forward to as a news channel once wee feel we are ready. Its like what Prannoy Roy did when they were with Star Plus.
I think BRF has enough news to fill 30 minutes daily.
We need to gather an editorial team and plan a pilot project. I am sure we can fund ourselves for a 30 Minute airtime.

ramana garu
What do you think?

Content is king. Google Hangout has a live-air option where you could have live conference/collaboration which would then be hosted in Youtube. All you need is a webcam and access to internet.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby krishnan » 04 Feb 2014 13:52

Image

prahaar
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby prahaar » 04 Feb 2014 14:11

krishnan wrote:image


Can you please put a caption to understand the context and also source?

Added later: Thanks Krishnanji.
Last edited by prahaar on 04 Feb 2014 14:38, edited 1 time in total.


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