Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 11 Feb 2014 07:26

Narendra Modi gets his stars, US seeks meeting with him

The US has signalled it will end its nine-year boycott of BJP's PM candidate Narendra Modi. US ambassador Nancy Powell last week asked and received permission from South Block to meet the Gujarat chief minister, say Indian and American sources.

disha · Post by **disha** » 11 Feb 2014 07:31

KLP Dubey wrote:
disha wrote: 1. Show NaMo as a visionary statesman
2. US will never carp about humiliating "Apply and I will show you my visa"
3. It will show that the US has given up on CongIs+AAP and is now willing to interact over wide ranging issues with the next great leader of India. This will ring alarm bells across the CongI+allies desk

Point is NaMo should use US pusillanimity in the visa situation not with vindictiveness but as an opportunity to consolidate and grow his own position.
This is all premature. What is the great hurry to meet ? Shri Modi should send a brief message that he has absolutely no time to meet. Too busy. Check again for appointment after election through proper channel.

The article seems to be written by a five-year-old. It keeps talking about "US open to visa application". Shri Modi has shown zero interest in applying for a US visa.

KLPD'ji (not my fault!!!

) No hurries, have a curry!. I am *not* saying meet in a hurry! I am saying *use the US pusillanimity for your advantage*., if not-meeting serves that - great. If one has to meet, use it to your advantage.

Again to state, I am of the *no meet* camp. In fact, Modi should never visit US always send an envoy - to say hello to US-SD, he should actually send in a paan-chewing, pot bellied, dhoti wearing, non-kalaa-angrez who calls up NaMo for every decision to make. And when India decides to invest say some 1T dollar to build the next space station, it should cancel some visas on amerikhan side.

However reality is not going to be that. This leak to Indian media is to build up pressure on NaMo to meet.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 11 Feb 2014 07:31

what assam cm has said is grossly incorrect...

List of states by literacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_sta ... eracy_rate

Gujarat has 82.5 % literacy. amongst the major states it is 5th or 6th in literacy.)...Assam is at near bottom...

Planning commission figures for mmr/1mr etc

http://planningcommission.nic.in/data/d ... le_175.pdf

Assam is near bottom ..while guj is at near top... 2009 mmr in guj is at 148 .while assam is 355... imr in Guj is 38 ...while assam is 57...

When 2013 figures are available Guj would have improved still better...

GSDP figures planning commission..

http://planningcommission.nic.in/data/d ... ble_61.pdf

Queerly 2012-2013 data of many bjp ruled states (Guj goa) is missing...

I don't know why people think they can publicly spout stats from musharraf and get away with it...

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 11 Feb 2014 07:33

SanjayC wrote:Narendra Modi gets his stars, US seeks meeting with him

The US has signalled it will end its nine-year boycott of BJP's PM candidate Narendra Modi. US ambassador Nancy Powell last week asked and received permission from South Block to meet the Gujarat chief minister, say Indian and American sources.

when US gets its Jhapad,they ll see stars...and what a demeaning reference to a future prime minister...HT is still handled by its congi bosses..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Feb 2014 07:36

assam and bihar among the major states have been rock bottom performers from even in the NDA era. Gogoi is smoking something strong if he believes 15 years of sub-par work can swept under carpet.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 11 Feb 2014 07:37

I have one humble suggestion for NaMoji:

I think that when talking to foreigners, including foreign journalists and ambassadors, he should not speak in English.

He is not very fluent in English, and these people take advantage of it and twist his remarks like they did in the "puppy" case.

Let him speak in Hindi or Gujarati, and let a translator translate.

After all, why should fluency in English be required for Indian political leaders? Do the leaders of China, Russia, Japan, Germany etc. give their interviews in English?

niran · Post by **niran** » 11 Feb 2014 07:54

Kakkaji wrote:I think that when talking to foreigners, including foreign journalists and ambassadors, he should not speak in English.

+million
Edward Shevardnadze former Ruski furrin minister was fluent in 5 different languages including English, so fluent, that he could write and understand poetry in all of them but he always used a translator once some had the nerve to ask him about it he replied he never listen to the translator, he takes the time to formulate an answer and watch and observe the action and reactions of the other side.

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 11 Feb 2014 08:12

Kakkaji wrote:Let him speak in Hindi or Gujarati, and let a translator translate.

Excellent idea. However, I disagree that Shri Modi is weak in English. His pronunciation follows the Indian phonetics, that doesn't mean he is not fluent in English. He should make it clear that although he is quite fluent in English, he prefers Hindi/Gujarati. Atal B Vajapeyi was also fluent in English but preferred Hindi.

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 11 Feb 2014 08:17

disha wrote: The article seems to be written by a five-year-old. It keeps talking about "US open to visa application". Shri Modi has shown zero interest in applying for a US visa.

KLPD'ji (not my fault!!! ) No hurries, have a curry!. I am *not* saying meet in a hurry! I am saying *use the US pusillanimity for your advantage*., if not-meeting serves that - great. If one has to meet, use it to your advantage.

Okey dokey. Also this is the second time you are asking about my name. Kishen Lal P Dubey. Some people make fun that it is "KL Pahunchke Dubey" (sank after moving to KL). I don't know what else you are thinking, but not my fault if you have a dirty mind !!!!

) Some other guy in OIT thread also thought it was highly hilarious, I am not sure why.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Feb 2014 08:23

disha & Abhijit,
PBS Newshour had an interview with Angela Stent author of Limis of Partnership where she explores the US-Russia ties. It applies to India also.

Basically Russia etc want partnership. US wants submission.

So no point in Modi meeting any one.
For instance they will claim all the good he does due to their moderating influence!
And can claim unverifiable advantages.

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 11 Feb 2014 08:35

Hari Seldon wrote:When I first saw the headline in TOI, I was more like "is bozo ki aukaad nahi hai Modi se sawaal karne ka" types... And true too, given that all CongI CMs (and the PM too) from Asom have been doormats par excellence... only.

Gogoi cited Planning Commission figures and said he would expose Modi with facts. "He thinks people of Assam are fools and he could take them for a ride with his misleading information about our state," he said.

LOL. Go-go Boy's facts are all associated with his rear end, and furthemore are going in the wrong direction.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 11 Feb 2014 08:37

ramana wrote:disha & Abhijit,
PBS Newshour had an interview with Angela Stent author of Limis of Partnership where she explores the US-Russia ties. It applies to India also.

Basically Russia etc want partnership. US wants submission.

So no point in Modi meeting any one.
For instance they will claim all the good he does due to their moderating influence!
And can claim unverifiable advantages.

Ramana-ji,
Are we focussing too much on the negatives? I agree there is not much to be gained, but by meeting and even maybe giving the impression that NaMo will not be hostile to US, maybe it would prevent the US from going into a frenzy supporting Khujliwal? If they feel NaMo is going to be irrevocably hostile to US, they may be driven to extreme lengths to stop him becoming PM. He has to win an election first, and he does not need to make more enemies than he actually has already. It might be a good idea to play along for the time being, until NaMo is secure in power.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Feb 2014 08:45

nageshks wrote:If they feel NaMo is going to be irrevocably hostile to US, they may be driven to extreme lengths to stop him becoming PM. He has to win an election first, and he does not need to make more enemies than he actually has already. It might be a good idea to play along for the time being, until NaMo is secure in power.

+1.

No point prancing around on a wounded ego or a moral high horse. There'll be time enough to eat those dishes... when they're cold.

In any case, something tells me, NM is not the egoistic type. What may've hurt him about US actions in the via-denial case is not the insult to his person but the insult to the nation... JMTPs of course.

Right now, reassure all those who mean no harm to India that NM means no harm to them. That includes sane-headed sections in the SD for all I know...

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 11 Feb 2014 08:58

Claim checks reveal Rahul Gandhi lied in his Gujarat speech

http://deshgujarat.com/2014/02/10/claim ... at-speech/

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 11 Feb 2014 09:01

KLP Dubey wrote:
disha wrote: The article seems to be written by a five-year-old. It keeps talking about "US open to visa application". Shri Modi has shown zero interest in applying for a US visa.

KLPD'ji (not my fault!!! ) No hurries, have a curry!. I am *not* saying meet in a hurry! I am saying *use the US pusillanimity for your advantage*., if not-meeting serves that - great. If one has to meet, use it to your advantage.
Okey dokey. Also this is the second time you are asking about my name. Kishen Lal P Dubey. Some people make fun that it is "KL Pahunchke Dubey" (sank after moving to KL). I don't know what else you are thinking, but not my fault if you have a dirty mind !!!! ) Some other guy in OIT thread also thought it was highly hilarious, I am not sure why.

So that;s your real name?

disha · Post by **disha** » 11 Feb 2014 09:16

KLP Dubey wrote: Okey dokey. Also this is the second time you are asking about my name. Kishen Lal P Dubey. Some people make fun that it is "KL Pahunchke Dubey" (sank after moving to KL). I don't know what else you are thinking, but not my fault if you have a dirty mind !!!! ) Some other guy in OIT thread also thought it was highly hilarious, I am not sure why.

Apologies Dubey'ji - was actually wondering why you chose an handle like that. I will leave it up to other esteem forum members to explain why in OT thread.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 11 Feb 2014 09:33

Modi to meet US envoy Nancy Powell in Ahmedabad, to talk on bilateral ties not his visa

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 82720.aspx

disha · Post by **disha** » 11 Feb 2014 09:34

nageshks wrote: Ramana-ji,
He has to win an election first, and he does not need to make more enemies than he actually has already. It might be a good idea to play along for the time being, until NaMo is secure in power.[\b]

Precisely.

America has this stupid ego problem, where it thinks it can bully anybody. Currently it is bullying Russia and thinking it will come into submission ala cold-war soviet union (which actually never happened). For all its claims, US knows how to spin bad things - like in vietnam when they were surrounded on all sides., they sent out the message that they have engaged enemy in all directions. US is looking for submission from its "vassals" to stoke its own ego - just like the bakis next door (and no doubt they understand each other well!)

So when this guys have come off their high horse for a while, it is strategically important to not let them climb up the mythical moral high horse again. That is, NaMo refusing outright (I will be surprised if he does so) will make him a hero but serves no purpose other than our ego-massaging and opening up another front, what we need is a statesman of Namo calibre at the helm for atleast 2 decades and not a romantic or a tragic hero. So how can this best be played?

Of course, not meeting is an easy option and a 2-minute decision including citing a busy election schedule or the awkwardness of meeting prior to elections and how it can be negatively seen. This will give US a nice handle to beat NaMo with, we do not need it at this stage.

What is difficult - is to actually meet and play it to your advantage. Let US spin whichever it wants to, given that they will spin everything as their victory and others good behaviour., what will NaMo get out of it? Or should get out of it? Let us say NaMo meets and points out that the conversionistas are breaking the law of the land and also violation of human rights and that has to cease with Nancy tacitly agreeing on behalf of US to curtail down the EJ'ism - isn't that a win? And again that is another thought balloon.

"No meet" decision is easy to make, "Lets meet" decision is difficult and US has sent this balloon out via its #mediapimps already that Nancy is sending feelers to meet (informally). And Namo camp is playing coy - basically what they are saying is "Let Nancy, US ambassador on behalf of the great state of US make a formal request for audience and we will review ('the application to meet') on its own merits". Namo has already turned the let-us-meet request around as the same as the US please-apply-for-visa game.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 11 Feb 2014 09:38

nageshks wrote:If they feel NaMo is going to be irrevocably hostile to US, they may be driven to
extreme lengths to stop him becoming PM.

Can we do without the obligatory Yindoo dhoti shivering? If the US knew that Khujliwal and his AAPtards were enough for their aims in India would they have even thought about meeting NaMo?

disha · Post by **disha** » 11 Feb 2014 09:48

From the above link by Gandharva'ji:

Top BJP leader told Hindustan Times that ministry of external affairs has already sent aide-memoire to Gujarat chief minister's office as well as Modi's close confidante Arun Jaitley which gives the broad overview of India-US relations at this stage and possible talking points.

"It was a fortnight ago that US embassy sounded us out on Powell's request for meeting. We have agreed for the meeting to take place later in Gandhinagar as Modi is addressing more than 20 election rallies this month. The topic will be bilateral ties and not Modi's visa," said the leader.

{Disha: Modi is currently doing "No-meet" with US using elections as a background. Imagine a mythical phone conv. "of course we will talk about bilateral ties and not about visa, however I am currently very busy, please talk to my aides. Feb 15 is an excellent date, let us meet on that date if I do not have this rally in Sujanpur and in Delhi". In diplomatic terms, that is a very tight slap - Ombaba would have heard it.}

HT broke the story of the meeting on Monday night that the US ambassador Nancy Powell last week had asked and received permission from South Block to meet the Gujarat chief minister.

{Disha: Putting my CT hat on, the US called out its #mediadogs to break the story after getting the slap}

South Block sources said that mandatory clearance to Powell for the Modi meeting was given on February 7 with the former indicating the meeting date as February 15. However, Modi is addressing a rally in Delhi on that day and moves to Sujanpur in Jammu the next day.

{Disha: Let us take our calendars out - which dates are you proposing? Feb 15 - okay - this is not workable - have rallies here - you are invited. Feb 29, Great day, happen to be in Godhra. March 3, hmm no good - rally in Kerala, meeting some xtians there - you are invited., March 15 - sorry, rally in AP - discussing - you are invited} :ROFL:

apoorv · Post by **apoorv** » 11 Feb 2014 10:08

AAP has a press conference at 11. I guess from today they will attack Modi and BJP full time and media will amplify it.. Dynasty will use all tricks. I have also noticed media being openly hostile to BJP. Earlier they used to be more subtle.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 11 Feb 2014 10:16

Yup, its all over the web now.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-26131465
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Sou ... ext-leader
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/us ... 10537.html
http://www.livemint.com/Politics/pFvfjK ... -Modi.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-1 ... enial.html
But this also gives them a chance to bring up the Guj riots once again.
Gautam

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 11 Feb 2014 10:37

Modi should meet Nancyben for maybe 15 minutes over chai and chakli and tell her that India looks forward to a mutually rewarding future as we have so much in common and are natural allies. That's what is expected of a mature and confident leader of 1.5 billion and is essentially perfumed gas. Gotus, MSM and Congis have gone beyond normal on the visa thing and are about to be hung upside down to dry with it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Feb 2014 10:49

niran wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:I think that when talking to foreigners, including foreign journalists and ambassadors, he should not speak in English.

+million
Edward Shevardnadze former Ruski furrin minister was fluent in 5 different languages including English, so fluent, that he could write and understand poetry in all of them but he always used a translator once some had the nerve to ask him about it he replied he never listen to the translator, he takes the time to formulate an answer and watch and observe the action and reactions of the other side.

as a former KGB topgun I am sure Putinji is also fluent in english among a few languages. but he always speaks in russian at official meetings like with EU/US, sometimes using english in informal occasions. KGB had entire schools devoted to teaching foreign languages and customs for their moles and agents.

rohitv · Post by **rohitv** » 11 Feb 2014 12:19

disha wrote:
There is lies, damned lies and statistics. He is using damned lies in the garb of statistics.

Put it this way, say 10Trillion US economy grows at 5% and 100B paki economy grows at 100%., the paki economy still has to grow by "400%" more to match what US does. That is if the base is lower the growth rate looks faster.

And regarding debt, if the Guj. goes and puts a gas grid infrastructure in place, it is going to raise the average debt (when Guj. takes a loan from its cooperatives and other areas)., however how is the debt used is important. Creating an infrastructure or paying salaries? Is the debt enrega type or setting up gas grid (which actually saves lot of petroleum!!!).

Also the correct metric is deb to GDP ratio which has gone down for Gujarat in the past decade. Also I had read somewhere that while calculating debt for a state, 75% of the total deposit in saving bank a/c are also taken into account. And for Gujarat debt this item is almost 70% of the total state debt.
Please correct me if I am wrong regarding the second point

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 11 Feb 2014 12:24

What is the urgency for Modi to talk now? As of now he is not the PM of India, and is not even a MP. That disqualifies him from talking about bilateral issues. If he has to talk, that must be limited to Gujarat and its business relations with America.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 11 Feb 2014 13:01

I dont know why NM is meeting the US now. By accepting the wish to speak, people will perceive him to be desperate. It will also give the US an impression that they are in control and he is willing to forgive all they have done. While I don't think he can ignore the US, he should take it easy and give them a date far into the future. I also don't think the US should be the first country he meets/visits after he becomes PM. He can visit the SK/UK/Japan/France etc.. after that he can do what he likes.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Feb 2014 13:05

this is a fake issue created by INC and SD together to give the MSM and NRI elements a 2nd chance to bash him. launch debates on TV about it.

he should have curtly rejected the proposal for the reason above - not a central minister, not an MP.

he is anyways meeting periodic american business delegations at state level mostly routing in via mumbai.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Feb 2014 13:08

^^It's ok, a harmless chai-biskoot session won't fell the skies. The Yankees are most welcome to imagine they're in complete command and control of the Modi machine for now...

Heck, modi can even offer to in-source and manage the color revolution the yanquis have been so desperately pimping here in Yindia.... the color will be saffron, of course....

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Feb 2014 13:11

Singha wrote:this is a fake issue created by INC and SD together to give the MSM and NRI elements a 2nd chance to bash him. launch debates on TV about it.

he should have curtly rejected the proposal for the reason above - not a central minister, not an MP.

he is anyways meeting periodic american business delegations at state level mostly routing in via mumbai.

Must have gone with "advice" from BJP "leadership" onlee, like the ones who are scared of the amreki shadow and so support their eyetalian aunty

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Feb 2014 13:13

she has obviously been tasked to check out his views and confidence level...maybe throw in a couple bouncers as well to see which way he ducks or attempts to hook. couple of note taking officials who are present would be well trained CIA psychologists watching and taking notes.

why give them any opportunity / chance to waste precious time - give them a confirmed appt for June end.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Feb 2014 13:19

^^Now that you say it like that...hmmm, maybe you're right.

Anyway the noose farticles were all trial balloons. No appmt has been given or confirmed, yet. By the way, wonder why nancy powell is still persona grata in yindia after her disgraceful role in sprinting away 'trafficking victims' aka the richards' family....

BTW, NM speaking in bhubaneshwar in a few minutes. he's already on stage and one'll have to tolerate rajnath's blather before the man himself speaks....

Meanwhile, this one is kinda below the belt.... but cute ad, no?

Meanwhile,

>>India Policy ‏@India_Policy Feb 9
See evolution; from apes to homo erectus in one pose. Courtesy Rahul Gandhi and Congress sycophancy...

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Feb 2014 13:30

seriously what are they doing

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 11 Feb 2014 13:34

Kakkaji wrote:I have one humble suggestion for NaMoji:

I think that when talking to foreigners, including foreign journalists and ambassadors, he should not speak in English.

He is not very fluent in English, and these people take advantage of it and twist his remarks like they did in the "puppy" case.

Let him speak in Hindi or Gujarati, and let a translator translate.

After all, why should fluency in English be required for Indian political leaders? Do the leaders of China, Russia, Japan, Germany etc. give their interviews in English?

+1

Could not agree more. It should become mandatory for IFS staff to speak whatever Indian native tongue and employ a translator. The translator could be very well from RAW.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 11 Feb 2014 13:36

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Feb 2014 13:45

krishnan wrote:seriously what are they doing

they just been taught how to use a western toilet by the maestro??

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Feb 2014 14:03

NaMo attacking naveen govt directly... watching his bhubaneshwar speech live

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 11 Feb 2014 14:07

Singha wrote:and regretfully, they will have to undergo a thorough search for security reasons

treat her the way Devyani K was treated before sending of to Jail

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 11 Feb 2014 14:12

Invoking the legacy of Biju now, is this good idea?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Feb 2014 14:20

^^Why not? Will put Naveen and BJD on the defensive.