Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Vipin_Upadhyay · Post by **Vipin_Upadhyay** » 18 Feb 2014 19:30

How much damage today's Sushma antics have done to BJP and NaMo image?
This could be final nail by D4.

Already Congressi B teams and AAPtards are ganging in full force, painting NaMo and Congress same same.

#YOCongressBJP is already trending on top.

If NaMo didn't have full Authority over BJP,then why the heck he accepted RSS call for PM nomination? This is crucial election year, with AAP out there to exploit anything and everything by linking BJP antics with NaMo. Can't he see the games D4 pulling?

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 18 Feb 2014 19:30

harbans is on the dot.
He even hugged Gehlot after Rajasthan elections.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 18 Feb 2014 19:41

Vipin_Upadhyay wrote:How much damage today's Sushma antics have done to BJP and NaMo image?
This could be final nail by D4.
A
Already Congressi B teams and AAPtards are ganging in full force, painting NaMo and Congress same same.

#YOCongressBJP is already trending on top.

If NaMo didn't have full Authority over BJP,then why the heck he accepted RSS call for PM nomination? Thiis crucial election year, can't he see the games D4 pulling?

You have to start from somewhere. Power isn't immediate. You have to slowly develop an architecture to implement big decisions. You need to get off your bollywood high horse and stop thinking that the hero can do dushum dushum in 2.5 hrs flat and run away with the girl. Congress needs to be neutralized and we need to start uniting the country under a dharmic banner and all these Andhrites can think of is Since BJP = Congress, then lets vote for get rich quick promoting EJ politicians. These guys are proving once again that they are kashmiri type opportunists who will vote for whoever gives them tv's, cash, etc. and they'll screw the entire country to get it. It's time they take a hard look in the mirror and realize who needs to shoulder most of the responsibility.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 18 Feb 2014 19:56

This BJP bashing is funny to say at least, first BJP does not have any substantial vote share to talk about, and now when people are disgruntled over division, blame BJP! Lahori logic

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Feb 2014 20:20

^ Logic is always post facto.

Nobody is disappointed in the likes of Rahul or kejri or sonia or mulayam-maya. I'm disappointed in namo precisely because I had hopes on the man.

Sure, I'll still support him, passively now on. But let's face it, the man is not the man I thought he was even though he's still the best we have by far.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 18 Feb 2014 20:21

RoyG wrote:
Supratik wrote:BJP had 2% vote share in SA. Why vote INC and then ask for BJP help? And then when BJP tries to help w/o letting T down blame everything on NM and BJP as if there are no other players in this. Vote Jagan and say hello to "hallelujah".
Don't even bother. These andhrites are spoiled. They vote for all these Ej/INC jokers and then when things get out of control they ask for help. Then when things don't go there way, BLAME MODI. Kashmiri type mentality.

SanjayC wrote:
Don't even bother. These andhrites are spoiled. They vote for all these Ej/INC jokers and then when things get out of control they ask for help. Then when things don't go there way, BLAME MODI. Kashmiri type mentality.
Same with Hindus overall -- kept supporting Gandhi and Nehru and when their daughters started getting raped by Muslims in Partition riots, started screaming to Savarkar and RSS for help, despite the latter pleading to Hindus again and again to vote for them so that they can bargain well with Jinnah and protect their interests by purging India of all Muslims.

I would say just desserts to Andhra people for fanatically voting Cong all these years and rejecting BJP and RSS. You can't keep choosing anti-Hindu forces as your leaders in good times and run to Hindu nationalists in bad times to save your arse. Bongs and Tamils are going the same path.

With Adhraites, there is also the problem of emotional immaturity -- when a film industry hero dies, I don't know how many commit suicide.

I don't know whether to laugh or get angry at these posts. How about kicking out all the states that did not vote for BJP?

Modi is being questioned for not being able to reign in his own party. Frankly, the self-serving agenda of the bjp in regard to small-states(trying to break states where it is absent) is highly condemnable especially for a party that likes to proclaim itself nationalistic. Even if they agree to the division, they should have opposed the process. Here is a govt that is about to be ousted in the next 3 months and bjp is unable to stand up to it! Who will trust such a bunch of people with power?

This incident illustrates why people are not enamoured of bjp even now. It is only Modi that people seem to trust but if Modi is unable or unwilling to control the rest of his party, which seems to be similar to kongis, then there will be disillusionment quite quickly among electorate.

This is precisely the reason for rise of Fordriwal and other fronts.

But I agree Thelugus are being punished for voting to kongis. Not just Thelugus. but Bhaarathiyas are being punished for voting kongis. However, Thelugus are no different from rest of the Bhaarathiyas. Even though every region likes to believe it is unique, most if the uniqueness is just superficial. At a fundamental level, all the bhaarathiyas are similar. The only thing differentiating is the local history. Every region has the same corrupt and self-serving politicians with few exceptions. In most of the country, kongis were the rulers. Kongis messed up Kashmir, Punjab & North-East exactly in this manner. But, at that time, kongis were all powerful. Today, there is supposed to be a strong independent opposition. So, people have expectations from it(even if they did not vote foe it). The failure of kongis is self-evident. But what does not escape people's notice is the failure of opposition for past decade. If bjp expects that people will automatically vote for it due to failures of kongis, they are wrong. Because. bjp supporters will be disheartened and will not vote while the caste/cash combination of the kongis will work. This is exactly what happened in 2009 apart from the thumbs up to manmohan singh by people.

Point being, it is sad to lotus at national level, except modi, not put up a proper opposition to the kongis. This is a deeper malice afflicting the political spectrum. Most if these 'national leaders' in kongi and lotus can't even win 5 seats on their own. Yet, they make or break decisions about entire nation. Power without responsibility is very dangerous.

As soon as critical decisions are taken only for short-term electoral gains, the problem starts. Unfortunately, BJP is doing exactly that on small-states issue. Today, no one expects anything from kongis and thats why they are facing extinction. But, if bjp is going to follow the same path, then whats the difference? Is it going to be more of the same with a different name?

People are disappointed only when there are expectations.

----
How to colonize a country:
Step 1: socialism(doles) and economic stagnation(kill local industries, particularly middle and small ones). Coffers will be empty and there will be massive debt. One or two big corporations may profit in this system.
Step 2: sell away the natural resources to phoreners or corporations.
Step 3: Repeat step 1 until all natural resources like land, water, forests, gold, ...etc are owned by phoreners or big corporations.

Kongs have executed step1.

----
EDIT:
Hari saar,
exactly. You conveyed it in a short crisp post, while I laboured on a long meandering ramble.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Feb 2014 20:29

Why nobody is talking about TRS INC Jagan tie up. AFter all Jagan is INC man. this way they sweep both sides. and doors closed even Jagn allies aand Seemandhra MPs would have voted for T

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 18 Feb 2014 20:31

RoyG wrote:So now the Andhrites in all their wisdom will be voting for EJ again b/c MODI let them down. Bunch of jokers.

Did anyone tell you they will vote for EJ ? Even if they did, are they any different from Bengalis who keep voting commies and Mamata inspite of all the shafting they are getting or any other part of India where congress, commies and AAP is getting elected again and again inspite of getting shafted before. You are a Moron if you think Andhrites are any different.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 18 Feb 2014 20:35

The problem is not with Andhrites. It is with Hindus.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 18 Feb 2014 20:36

From the news I am getting on net, INC blacked out the proceedings and passed the bill by voice vote amidst pandemonium.
IIRC, BJP never had a vote share in SA. In any case it had to work with TRS and TDP. I don't think that situation is going to change significantly unless TRS merges with INC. May be Jagan is going to get some more seats in SA. The situation will be clear in the coming days. INC wanted to torpedo the NDA in AP and seems to have ushered in chaos.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Feb 2014 20:40

Why is anyone even assuming that BJP and NaMo are in different minds over this. This D4 business is cute for purposes of scapegoating and transference, but to assume that bit of psychological comfort pillow is real, would be doing disservice to oneself.

BJP has better chance in T region after 5 years, than it would even have in Seemandhra in next 10, despite whatever operation Kamal repeat they tried to cobble up in Seemandhra region.

It would have been stupid to oppose the split, sure they will speak with a forked tongue and make soothing noises to both sides (for tie up with TDP say) -- but they arent emotional fools or dumb.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 20:48

Hari,
Cutting through the fog the best option is still to defeat Congress and if that means support to Modi then so be it. By staying aside Congress ideology will win.

So I urge you to buck up and look at the task ahead and join the fray.

And talk to your SHQ about the legal challenges and get informed

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Feb 2014 20:56

Sanku wrote:Why is anyone even assuming that BJP and NaMo are in different minds over this. This D4 business is cute for purposes of scapegoating and transference, but to assume that bit of psychological comfort pillow is real, would be doing disservice to oneself.

I agree "D4" is an easy low hanging fruit, that everybody bashes if things do not go their way. At some point, BJP as a whole needs to step and take the responsibility. If "D4" is really that injurious, why are they not being shown the door. If they cannot, then it means BJP's house is not in order.

The one thing BJP needs to take the blame is for allowing the split to occur because of political advantages that Congress sought.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 18 Feb 2014 20:58

Saars,
the real point here is: is short-term electoral gains the only criteria for taking important decisions? Isn't it exactly what kongis are accused of by Modi? Then, what is lotus doing?

If someone wants to say that lotus supports small-states in principle, then:
a) Did lotus come up with the ideal size of the state? Is Guj ideal size or Goa? For example, will lotus support a Hyd state or Mumbai state? Will lotus support making lutyens into a separate state?
b) If it supports small states, then it should start from those states where it is already in power and divide them to ideal size.

Now, people can clearly see that lotus' stand is a self-serving and narrow one that does not care for larger implications. Then, how are they different from kongis? Less corrupt? Maybe they are less corrupt because they have not been in power for as long as the kongis.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 21:01

The BJP small states slogan was created to cut Congress strongholds like UP (85) and Bihar (60+). However it became a ritual mantra used by Congress against them to support AP division to favor Congress itself. So BJP has been hoisted on own petard.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 18 Feb 2014 21:02

I think the right thing for Namo to do if he becomes PM is to help develop SA. If he is able to do that in the next 5-10 yrs the negative mood in SA will dissipate. Also it seems on this forum we don't have opinion of forumers from T. So we are getting one side of the view.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 18 Feb 2014 21:03

BJP small states is based on better governance.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Feb 2014 21:06

Supratik wrote:BJP small states is based on better governance.

For administrative reasons. In fact Karat had accused BJP of wanting to create 60 states in India so that there is no State autonomy.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 21:09

Aditya_V wrote:Why nobody is talking about TRS INC Jagan tie up. AFter all Jagan is INC man. this way they sweep both sides. and doors closed even Jagn allies aand Seemandhra MPs would have voted for T

it will be so but only covert before the elections. After that is what it will be.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Feb 2014 21:11

NaMo has supported smaller states for better administration. His support for Telangana did not go beyond that. This was shortly after Congress promised to form Telangana.

Subsequently Modi has often called AP bifurcation issue, Sonia's Zeher ki Kheti. I don't see him happy with how things have progressed. It was he who made an appeal to CBN in Hyderabad to join forces with him. How can then Modi be working to destroy the budding alliance with TDP?

It is true that Modi could not force Delhi BJP to oppose AP Reorganization Bill, but does that make him a villain in this drama on whom one puts all the blame? Why do we expect that Modi is a superman?

Modi is only Gujarat's CM and BJP's PM Candidate! He doesn't have any more jurisdiction than this!

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 18 Feb 2014 21:13

BJP turned to small-states after giving up Hindhuthva. Nationalist party that wants to grow by fanning sub-regionalism! The only source of stability in the country is linguistic states. Already states are squabbling with each other while center screws them all. More states, that too based on the aspirations of out-of-job politicians is a recipe for destability. And small states are notorious for political instability due to small number of seats.

Anyway, if small states are such a good idea. then lotus should demand a state re-organization committee to re-draw all states starting from the states where it is already in power.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 18 Feb 2014 21:14

RajeshA wrote:NaMo has supported smaller states for better administration. His support for Telangana did not go beyond that. This was shortly after Congress promised to form Telangana.

Subsequently Modi has often called AP bifurcation issue, Sonia's Zeher ki Kheti. I don't see him happy with how things have progressed. It was he who made an appeal to CBN in Hyderabad to join forces with him. How can then Modi be working to destroy the budding alliance with TDP?

It is true that Modi could not force Delhi BJP to oppose AP Reorganization Bill, but does that make him a villain in this drama on whom one puts all the blame? Why do we expect that Modi is a superman?

Modi is only Gujarat's CM and BJP's PM Candidate! He doesn't have any more jurisdiction than this!

RajeshA, I'm not sure that your arguments however logical it may be will work at the present time. Andhrites are in presently suffering from shock and despair. If Modi is to blame, then he is to blame. Let them cool down.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 18 Feb 2014 21:15

SwamyG wrote: For administrative reasons. In fact Karat had accused BJP of wanting to create 60 states in India so that there is no State autonomy.

Karat is not the authority on that. Small states have performed better. The only exceptions are NE and JH. The next that will probably be split is UP.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 18 Feb 2014 21:18

johneeG wrote:BJP turned to small-states after giving up Hindhuthva. Nationalist party that wants to grow by fanning sub-regionalism! The only source of stability in the country is linguistic states. Already states are squabbling with each other while center screws them all. More states, that too based on the aspirations of out-of-job politicians is a recipe for destability. And small states are notorious for political instability due to small number of seats.

Anyway, if small states are such a good idea. then lotus should demand a state re-organization committee to re-draw all states starting from the states where it is already in power.

I still don't really know what Hindutva is? Is it temple politics? Development is the name of the game. World class medical facilities, strong dharmic social sciences, modern army, etc. Temple, fasting, puja to the gods anyone can do.

M Joshi · Post by **M Joshi** » 18 Feb 2014 21:19

Did something I've been thinking of doing for a long time. I've compiled a list of some of the people who've joined BJP in the last few months, especially after Namo was brought to the forefront:

1) Rao Inderjit Singh, Lok Sabha member from Gurgaon, said he would join BJP.
2) AASU’s assistant general secretary Rituparna Baruah joins BJP.
3) Mumbai police commissioner Satyapal Singh has tendered his resignation and the IPS officer is expected to join BJP.
4) Lok Sabha MP from Hoshangabad seat, Rao Uday Pratap Singh, resigned from Congress and joined BJP along with some of his supporters.
5) Ex-BJP leader and current Congress legislator from Lathi Assembly constituency in Amreli district, Bavku Undhad today resigned as MLA and primary member of Congress to rejoin BJP.
6) Raghurama Krishnam Raju quits YSRCP, joins BJP.
7) A prominent leader from Doda district Ishtiaq Wani joined BJP on Wednesday in a function held at party headquarters after quitting PDP.
8 ) Pushpa Leela quits Congress and Joins BJP.
9) BSP MLA from Morena Parasram Mudgal on Friday resigned from the party membership and joined BJP.
10) Former minister and senior RJD leader from Madhepura in the Kosi river belt, Ravindra Charan Yadav, joined BJP along with hundreds of his supporters.
11) Kalyan Singh, the former chief minister of UP is going to join the Bharatiya Janata Party officially on March 2.
12) Lyricist and scholar Jonnavitthula Ramalingeswara Rao exhorted the people to vote for Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) after launching ‘One note and vote for BJP’.
13) Bavku Undhad, Congress MLA from Lathi-Liliya Assembly constituency in Saurashtra, joined the BJP.
14) Music director Bappi Lahiri joins BJP ahead of Lok Sabha polls.
15) Swabhimaani Shetkari Sanghatana, led by Lok Sabha member Raju Shetty joins BJP-SS alliance.
16) Retired IAS officer RPS Pawar joined the BJP.
17) Former Dainik Jagran CGM Nishikant Thakur joins BJP.
18) R.K. Handa, who retired as director general of police after 35 years of service, officially joins in the BJP in WB.
19) Dilip Kumar Chaudhuri, president of Tax Bar Association of Bengal joins BJP.
20) Former DGP R.K. Mohanty officially joins in the BJP in WB.
21) Former Joint Director of the CBI Sujit Ghosh officially joins in the BJP in WB.
22) Former State Election Commission officer S.K. Madan officially joins in the BJP in WB.
23) Bengali film actor Nimu Bhowmick officially joins in the BJP.
24) Ex-Trinamool MP Bikram Sarkar joins BJP.
25) Former Gujarat Congress spokesperson Aashifa Khan joins BJP.
26) Former Additional Chief Secretary Radha Kant Tripathy officially joins in the BJP in WB.
27) Retired Assistant Commissioner, RPF, R N Das officially joins in the BJP in WB.
28) Former Chief of Customs and Excise Department Bishwajit Dutta officially joins in the BJP in WB.
29) Industrialist Sushil Kumar Agarwal joins in the BJP in WB.
30) Former MD of Tata Group R N Das joins in the BJP in WB.
31) Former CMD of Central Inland Water Transport Corporation Ltd S C Saxena joins in the BJP in WB.
32) Former Home Secretary RK Singh joins BJP.
33) Former Petroleum Secretary Raghav Sharan Pandey joins BJP.
34) Former Indian Railway Service officer Dharam Singh joins BJP.
35) Sunil Shastri, son of former Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri and Congress party member joined the BJP.
36) Keshubhai Patel's son Bharat Patel joins BJP.
37) Ex-UN envoy Hardeep Singh Puri joins BJP.
38) Former JD-U leader Sachchidanand Rai joins BJP in Patna.
39) After a lot of speculations, celebrities Rajasekhar and Jeevitha formally joined the BJP.
40) Subramanian Swamy joins BJP.
41) BJP officially announced joining of Laishram Jatra along with 300 members of MPP.
42) Kamalchand Bhanjdeo, the scion of Bastar's royal family, joined BJP.
43) Former Arunachal Pradesh home, finance and civil supplies minister James Lowangcha Wanglat joins BJP.

I'm sure there are many others & the list will keep getting longer now.

AjitK · Post by **AjitK** » 18 Feb 2014 21:21

ramana wrote:The BJP small states slogan was created to cut Congress strongholds like UP (85) and Bihar (60+). However it became a ritual mantra used by Congress against them to support AP division to favor Congress itself. So BJP has been hoisted on own petard.

The national parties don't want regional satraps to be in a position to dictate terms to them or get too big a profile in Delhi. That happened recently in AP with NTR in the 80s and Sharad Pawar getting a good haul for the Congress before he split.

Sidd · Post by **Sidd** » 18 Feb 2014 21:23

Emotions are running high right now but a cool headed analysis will show that from Modi and BJP's perspective this is a pretty good outcome.

Telengana state is tailor made for BJP and BJP should have a good shot at power in 5 years time. They can also win a few lok sabha seats in Telengana this time around, Owaisi has given enough ammunition, some creative campaigning should make it possible. There will also be an exodus from TDP in Telengana and BJP should try to get in some good candidates.I doubt that KCR will merge with Congress and given his track record he will support whoever will be in the position to form the government in center.

In Seemandhra BJP would have drawn a zero with or without TDP. Post elections in 4 months time temper would cool and both TDP and YSRCP will be potential allies.

This was a no win situation given that none of the sides was willing to concede an inch and Modi would be happy that he will not have to deal with the issue. He can come in later to apply the Marham.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 21:26

Supratik wrote:BJP small states is based on better governance.

There are 672 districts. Is there better governance?
Small states mindless mantra goes against Chanakya who pointed out the absence of a large core state that could stop the constant invasions since Cyrus to Alexander. He created the Maurya Empire which is bigger than the British India.

I think Indian elite is fooled by the Westphalian nation-state construct. Its not permanent.
Nothing prevents the West from dividing further countries by velvet revolutions.
They now have a reward system of Nobel Prizes for the perpetrators.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 18 Feb 2014 21:27

RoyG wrote:
johneeG wrote:BJP turned to small-states after giving up Hindhuthva. Nationalist party that wants to grow by fanning sub-regionalism! The only source of stability in the country is linguistic states. Already states are squabbling with each other while center screws them all. More states, that too based on the aspirations of out-of-job politicians is a recipe for destability. And small states are notorious for political instability due to small number of seats.

Anyway, if small states are such a good idea. then lotus should demand a state re-organization committee to re-draw all states starting from the states where it is already in power.
I still don't really know what Hindutva is? Is it temple politics? Development is the name of the game. World class medical facilities, strong dharmic social sciences, modern army, etc. Temple, fasting, puja to the gods anyone can do.

Fine. Then, BJP should stop taking the name of Raam in vain and remove that issue from the manifesto. If they have an issue in their manifesto, then they should implement it. They should not try to fool people. Those who want temple, fasting puja...etc will find some other alternative.

----
Sidd saar,
should important decisions be based on electoral calculations only?

PS: I am from T and I am T, but I don't support separate T or small states in general. Of course, I don't claim to represent the popular view in T. But, I don't think anyone knows how many people in AP support or oppose T. There should have been a plebscite to atleast know where people stand. If there was election, it would have given some idea.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 18 Feb 2014 21:29

Guys if you are following news, it was not Namo or Bjp vote
For ap division, it is in fact a small cabal called d4. Blame them!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 21:31

fanne wrote:Guys if you are following news, it was not Namo or Bjp vote
For ap division, it is in fact a small cabal called d4. Blame them!!

fanne, By closing the Lok Sabha the speaker has ensured there is no accountability and peolpe can claim what they ant without fear of being challenged later. If it was D4 only then what were their interests in supporting the split.

Do we really know if the vote tally was for the division?
Media claiming BJP's support enabled it to pass.

The House saw a rare scene when the bill's supporters had to frequently stand up for head count as Lok Sabha speaker Meira Kumar chose to ignore the repeated demand for a division or voting. The live telecast in Lok Sabha TV also went off air suddenly. Lok Sabha secretariat later cited technical problems for the blackout.

The bill is likely to be placed before the Rajya Sabha on Wednesday, where the ruling dispensation does not enjoy a majority. Congress strategists did not rule out the possibility of the BJP pushing further amendments to the bill in the Upper House. Any change in the bill will require a fresh approval from the Lok Sabha as well, which might delay its passage.

During the past few months, several Congress lawmakers have been protesting for and against the bifurcation of Andhra Pradesh. On Tuesday, as the bill was slated for a discussion and passage, Trinamool Congress and its arch rival, Left parties, together jammed the Well of the House. Samajwadi Party and a few Congress MPs and ministers from Seemandhra also stood in the Well.

TMC members were shouting "aaj ka din kala hai, Rahul-Modi joda hai and Sushma-Sonia jodi hai (today is a black day as Rahul and Modi and Sushma and Sonia have ganged up)".

After the first two attempts to pass the bill failed at 12 noon and 12.45pm due to din, the Lok Sabha finally took up the matter at 3pm. A significant part of the visitors' gallery was cleared minutes after home minister Sushil Kumar Shinde sought leave of the House for the passage of the bill.

The House looked a virtual battle-ground with Congress members protecting Shinde and other top leaders from protesting members.

Trinamool's Saugata Roy and Hyderabad-based MIM's Asaduddin Owaisi placed several amendments, which were not accepted.
While Roy repeatedly demanded division or voting, the speaker ignored the appeals and instead adopted the old method of head-counting to decide on the majority mark.

An agitated Ray protested, "We are not sheep. Why are the members being asked to stand to count their heads?"

So a bill passed in a tyrannical manner is being acclaimed!!! Its more like an abortion than a division.

Live Mint article:

Telangana an undemocratic division

On Tuesday, the Lok Sabha voted to create the new state of Telangana by splitting Andhra Pradesh. The Bill was passed in the teeth of opposition from an elected legislature and a significant number of members of Parliament. In the end, it was a high-level, undemocratic, compromise between the Manmohan Singh government and the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) that ensured the passage of the Bill. In the bargain, all democratic procedures, including a careful debate, were trampled. The blackout of proceedings in the Lok Sabha was just a small part of it all.
The truth is that Telangana was an issue that caught India’s political class in a bind. By a series of blundering steps—beginning with Union finance minister P. Chidambaram’s 9 December 2009 statement in favour of Telangana down to the histrionics in New Delhi in the past one week—the two national parties, the Congress and the BJP, pushed themselves in a corner. At each step of this march towards folly, both parties tried to fine tune their calculations without sparing a thought about the consequences of such a divisive process.

The calculations were simple.

For the Congress, the allure of 17 Lok Sabha seats in the new province outweighed the future administrative and political consequences of creating a new state.

For the BJP, creating Telangana will obviate the need to address a painful issue if it forms the next government.

A losing proposition for everyone

It is unlikely that the Congress will reap any benefit from this division. In the Seemandhra region, it is least likely that it will win any of the 25 seats to the Lok Sabha. In the Telangana region, its political fortunes are tied to the goodwill of the Telangana Rashtra Samithi (TRS), the party that has championed the new state’s cause for years.

For the BJP, which does not have much of a presence in South India, tying itself to the Congress’s coattails won’t do it any good, either in Seemandhra or in Telangana. The party did not apply its mind to the issue. All it did was issue empty statements about “justice” to Telangana and Seemandhra.

Above all, the country has not gained anything. Telangana will require massive financial support from the Union government to keep it viable. There is no wishing this away as the history of the past two decades shows that all new states begin with a low revenue base and in spite of what they say, it is the Union government’s money that keeps them afloat.

To placate the residual state of Seemandhra some kind of special financial package will be implemented. But financial packages cannot undo the loss of geographic unity. Just look at the map of bifurcated Andhra Pradesh and one can see the coming problems. Hyderabad was centrally located and imparted some administrative cohesion. Seemandhra—from its north-eastern corner (Srikakulam) to its south-western edge (Anantapur)—looks to be an unwieldy state now.

The two major parties appear to gain little but that would be fine if the nation had gained something out of the bifurcation. Sadly, India stares at greater fiscal burden and another pair of bitter squabbling states.

Sadly Live Mint has to talk of national interests while Indina papers are dividied on political lines!!!

Why does he say Telangana has little/low revenue base?

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 18 Feb 2014 21:34

SwamyG wrote:One of the Rajdharmas of our Rajahs were to maintain the chaturvarnashrma - essentially it is giving all the 4 engines of society room to flourish and prosper within their limits.

Someone MUST publicly ask NaMo if he supports Varna Vyavastha. And the question is relevant because he was a pracharak in RSS and many RSS-apex people ave made statements in favor of Varna Vyavastha. So somone must publicly ask NaMo if he supports Varna Vyavastha. If he says "NO, I oppose Varna Vysvastha", then good, more dalit votes will go to and more glory to him. And if he says "YES, I support VV" OR gives gol gol answers, then he will lose dalit votes, and so be it.

But its time we finish this VV for good. And this may-2014 seems to be good oppurtunity to finish VV.

(I am anti-VV)

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 18 Feb 2014 21:36

List of states that benefited from division - Guj, Pun, Har, HP, Uk, Bh, MP, Ch.

Goa has the highest per capita income amongst states.

States that did not benefit from division - NE (militancy), Jh (political instability), UP (still too big - needs further division)

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Feb 2014 21:40

Rahul Mehta wrote:
SwamyG wrote:One of the Rajdharmas of our Rajahs were to maintain the chaturvarnashrma - essentially it is giving all the 4 engines of society room to flourish and prosper within their limits.
Someone MUST publicly ask NaMo if he supports Varna Vyavastha. And the question is relevant because he was a pracharak in RSS and many RSS-apex people ave made statements in favor of Varna Vyavastha. So somone must publicly ask NaMo if he supports Varna Vyavastha. If he says "NO, I oppose Varna Vysvastha", then good, more dalit votes will go to and more glory to him. And if he says "YES, I support VV" OR gives gol gol answers, then he will lose dalit votes, and so be it.

But its time we finish this VV for good. And this may-2014 seems to be good oppurtunity to finish VV.

(I am anti-VV)

Maybe you could ask him

Varnaashrama just evolves over time and exists in all societies across civilizations. No society can function without order. No companies / institutions can function without order. Animal kingdom can not function without order. What is important is how the society goes creating that order and maintaining that order.

And no politician is going to answer that question directly.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Feb 2014 21:41

Supratik wrote:
SwamyG wrote: For administrative reasons. In fact Karat had accused BJP of wanting to create 60 states in India so that there is no State autonomy.
Karat is not the authority on that. Small states have performed better. The only exceptions are NE and JH. The next that will probably be split is UP.

I know saar. I was just pointing that BJP has been in support for a long time; and people have been accusing BJP for a long time. The only thing I accuse BJP now is of giving Congress opportunity to walk over and conduct this tamasha.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 18 Feb 2014 21:44

johneeG wrote:BJP turned to small-states after giving up Hindhuthva. Nationalist party that wants to grow by fanning sub-regionalism! The only source of stability in the country is linguistic states. Already states are squabbling with each other while center screws them all. More states, that too based on the aspirations of out-of-job politicians is a recipe for destability. And small states are notorious for political instability due to small number of seats.

Anyway, if small states are such a good idea. then lotus should demand a state re-organization committee to re-draw all states starting from the states where it is already in power.

Really! I think at this point you are looking for any and all flimsy excuses to feel vindictive against Bjp. Above 2 paragraphs are contradictory, and full of sweeping generalizations that stretch the imagination quite a bit.

Where was all this angst against small states when you were supporting Modi just a few days ago? Bjp created 3 smaller states more than a decade ago and you were happy to support them all this time. Now with Telangana everything flips on its head?!

Sidd · Post by **Sidd** » 18 Feb 2014 21:48

Sidd saar,
should important decisions be based on electoral calculations only?

I understand that this is a very emotional issue for a lot of people and apologies if my comment came out as insensitive.

I was trying to explain things from BJP's perspective. For BJP this was a no win situation and given the possible outcomes this was possibly the less worse option.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 18 Feb 2014 21:55

devesh wrote:
johneeG wrote:BJP turned to small-states after giving up Hindhuthva. Nationalist party that wants to grow by fanning sub-regionalism! The only source of stability in the country is linguistic states. Already states are squabbling with each other while center screws them all. More states, that too based on the aspirations of out-of-job politicians is a recipe for destability. And small states are notorious for political instability due to small number of seats.

Anyway, if small states are such a good idea. then lotus should demand a state re-organization committee to re-draw all states starting from the states where it is already in power.
Really! I think at this point you are looking for any and all flimsy excuses to feel vindictive against Bjp. Above 2 paragraphs are contradictory, and full of sweeping generalizations that stretch the imagination quite a bit.

Where was all this angst against small states when you were supporting Modi just a few days ago? Bjp created 3 smaller states more than a decade ago and you were happy to support them all this time. Now with Telangana everything flips on its head?!

But, I am still supporting Modi, not just Modi but BJP. But, I have criticized BJP on this issue. And I think BJP is highly irresponsible on this issue and it ties in with BJP wanting to give up Hindhuthva and become similar to kongis. I think the core voters of BJP sensed this strategy and voted against BJP or stayed away in 2004. Praising Jinnah and regretting Babri also had its role in 2009 results. It took Modi who is perceived as a strong Hindhuthva-vadhi to revive BJP's in both its strong and weak regions.

Sidd saar,
its not about emotions, saar. Emotions will dissipate in a week. Its the consequences that one has to live with.

Mehta saar,
you are hell-bent on trying to put Modi in a tight spot! Why are you not harsh on kongis similarly?

bhargava · Post by **bhargava** » 18 Feb 2014 21:57

D4 or not...hard to understand, how in the current state of affairs, this kind of "vibe" exists..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2014 22:01

In defence of Modi, Live Mint reports

Modi in Karnataka slams Congress on double speak

New Delhi: The Bharatiya Janata Party’s (BJP’s) prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi on Tuesday accused the Congress of trying to speak for both supporters and opponents of plans to create Telangana without helping out the people of Andhra Pradesh (AP) from which the state is to be carved out.

“Congress leaders are coming to Karnataka, Rahul Gandhi came two days ago. Sonia Gandhi was also in the southern part of the country, but they are not going to Andhra Pradesh and Hyderabad. People of Seemandhra and Telangana need support but Congress is only adding salt to their injuries,” Modi told a public meeting at Davangere in Karnataka.

The Gujarat chief minister said the Congress leadership did not care for the people of Andhra Pradesh even though they had ensured that party formed the government at the Centre. “The people of Seemandhra have small demands but Congress party is not ready to listen. They should at least answer the questions of the people,” Modi added.

He also blamed the Congress leadership for disruptions in Parliament over the government’s attempts to legislate the birth of India’s 29th state. Rather than BJP members of Parliament, it was cabinet ministers of the ruling party who were responsible for disruptions in Parliament, he said.

At the meeting, Modi shared the stage with B.S. Yeddyurappa, the former chief minister of Karnataka who was forced to resign after facing corruption charges and arrested by the Lokayukta in 2011. After Yeddyurappa left the BJP and formed his own local political outfit, the BJP was decimated in the Karnataka assembly elections in May 2015, its tally coming down from 110 in 2008 to only 40 seats. Yeddyurappa returned to the BJP in December.

Modi has a tough task ahead to explain the Sushma's bonhomie with the Congress splitters.