Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 24 Mar 2014 12:18

SanjayC wrote:
rohitvats wrote:So, Muthalik's goons attacking and thrashing girls in a pub is an example of INDIC forces? You think people like him represent Indian culture and thrashing people because they don't fall into your definition of Indic culture is OK? What next?
Some reports I read that time about the incident said the pub was apparently a place where impressionable Hindu teenage girls were being groomed (in compromising position) by their Muslim "boyfriends."

People also seem to miss the point as to how the media was already present there

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 24 Mar 2014 12:37

gandharva wrote: He won in 98 or 99 by chance due to three way fight where two other candidates were Muslims.No body expected him to win.But he won and given the scarcity of Muslim MPs in BJP, ABV made him minister. "Shakal se Chor lagta hai".

Ub Shakal to bhagwan ne di hai. Uska kya kar sakte hain. But that does not mean Shahnawaz is or is not a chor.

The problem starts in the case of Shahnawaz type people when we do not have enough information and then not enough of a framework to judge the already little information that is there. For example some months back somebody on BRF had pointed out how Shahnawaz used to have personalized massages ordered when he was in some ministry. A few days back somebody in the MSM pointed out how he could be seen on public transport.

The problem as I see it is his personal life where he got married to a Hindu women. So long as he does not acts like a criminal with this Hindu women, my preference is that we leave him alone on that count. Unless somebody says he kidnapped girls (Hindu or otherwise) and misused his position to protect himself, there would hardly be any case against him.

It is quite possible that a person may have divided loyalties. But if you keep throwing away things to chase a chimeric and unattainable purity quotient then you are planning to beat yourself. The point is Shahnawaz has done nothing to endanger his position within the Sangh. He may not be a hero, which is ok. Good thing is you have a hero with you too. Thoda sanyam rakhiye things will fall into place and any confused lives and divided loyalties will also begin to resolve themselves.

........................

As for Muttalik types, even if he is a genuine Hindutva vaadi still he is dangerous and mostly beyond redemption. There can always be found more disciplined people to do his jobs.

Just think about it, had the pub been such a white trash, was it not easier and more sensible to put the pressure someplace else in some other manner, instead of taking it out the on the patrons?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Mar 2014 12:43

imo nothing innately indic about the dated RSS dress of shirts and shorts.
they need to come up with a new dress to be more with the times and more form fitting to match trends.
and get deeply into organizing sports, charity events, feasts and physical training for children and women in every locality incl upper middle class...thats how "faith based initiatives" establish a initial footprint everywhere.

they need youth icons. urgently. to correct the perception issue with growing urban middle class. it should be cool and stylish to be a proud hindu...instead the tone imposed by congi sickulars for 50 yrs is that being a proud hindu and proud of indic traditions => you are anti muslim and anti christian.

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 24 Mar 2014 12:51

<OT>

vishant chaudhary wrote:Dont get me wrong but when i attended modi meerut rally and some pepole started har har modi chanting i dont know why but it made me uneasy.I think it is in our upbringing and most will be uneasy with this slogan.
Simple modi-modi chant is more inspiring my personal feeling only.
Anyone know exact meaning of har har....

Commonly we use the word 'har' twice in one breath ie. har har mahedev. But actually it is meant to be used thrice like har har mahadev... har

har = to destroy

There are three type of 'taap' (suffering) reffered as 'trividh taap' (three types of suffering) - deihik (relating to body), bhoutik (material i.e. social or fininacial) and deivik (relating to natural forces such as rain, fire etc.). So when we say har har we pray lord to destroy these three types of sufferings. In the context of NM only two 'har' can be used, material and deivik. So technically har har modi is not a wrong slogan.

suryag wrote:Bji and other astro gurus is there any threat looming in NaMo's horoscope in the near future ?

Not an astro guru but I read in a local news paper that he will face a life threat in 2016. If he survives he will have even larger goal achieved for the nation. TIFWIW.
</OT>

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 24 Mar 2014 12:52

member_28502 · Post by **member_28502** » 24 Mar 2014 13:00

Bhagalpur was once famous blindings

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 24 Mar 2014 13:10

ChandraV wrote:
Singha wrote:imo nothing innately indic about the dated RSS dress of shirts and shorts.
they need to come up with a new dress to be more with the times and more form fitting to match trends.
and get deeply into organizing sports, charity events, feasts and physical training for children and women in every locality incl upper middle class...thats how "faith based initiatives" establish a initial footprint everywhere.

they need youth icons. urgently. to correct the perception issue with growing urban middle class. it should be cool and stylish to be a proud hindu...instead the tone imposed by congi sickulars for 50 yrs is that being a proud hindu and proud of indic traditions => you are anti muslim and anti christian.
Precisely. Well said. This is what I want. This is what I was hinting at in my comments.

Well I guess you two are not so informed about it. RSS does have an Indian sports and games on Sundays in their local shakas. My son attends them off and on. They also come to our locality if invited and educate people about festivals. They had come to our apartment on Raksha bandhan day. I guess, it is just a matter of reaching out to the local shakha and asking them. Please remember , no one except one person is in RSS in our apartment. However the participation was full. Even women and elderly people came down to the common gathering at our apartment and participated. This has been repeated for few other festivals too. Also when I talked to some of the RSS guys, one was a Project Manager in a Electronics company, other was a BE graduate from a top college in Blore. Many other boys were either in 11th , 12th, highschool and few in graduate courses.
They all are urban middle class.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 24 Mar 2014 13:13

Singha wrote:imo nothing innately indic about the dated RSS dress of shirts and shorts.
they need to come up with a new dress to be more with the times and more form fitting to match trends.
and get deeply into organizing sports, charity events, feasts and physical training for children and women in every locality incl upper middle class...thats how "faith based initiatives" establish a initial footprint everywhere.

Have you participated in a shakha in your neighborhood? I am not asking this to demonstrate your lack of knowledge, but the shakhas I participate are exactly what you described in your quote. It is true that middle/upper middle class neighborhoods do not have many shakhas these days, RSS does not organize anything, it is the swayamsevaks who need to organize this. If you are interested, I can find out and provide a contact in Blore, who can provide some guidance (based on past experience) if needed, to start a shakha with exactly the attributes you envision.

This is not a challenge, but a genuine suggestion.

No more OT on this thread. Also, this is not advertisement for RSS, if it is inappropriate, I will delete this post.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 24 Mar 2014 13:14

Singha wrote:imo nothing innately indic about the dated RSS dress of shirts and shorts.
they need to come up with a new dress to be more with the times and more form fitting to match trends.
and get deeply into organizing sports, charity events, feasts and physical training for children and women in every locality incl upper middle class...thats how "faith based initiatives" establish a initial footprint everywhere.

they need youth icons. urgently. to correct the perception issue with growing urban middle class. it should be cool and stylish to be a proud hindu...instead the tone imposed by congi sickulars for 50 yrs is that being a proud hindu and proud of indic traditions => you are anti muslim and anti christian.

Sorry to say this Singhaji, we cannot outsource protection of indic values, only to RSS. It would become single point of success/failure. All you have got to do is destroy RSS. Indics had the culture being passed down from one generation of family to another. This is getting disrupted and main culprits are Parents.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 24 Mar 2014 13:23

I participate on one called IT Milan which is for tech students and professionals who cannot attend daily Shakhas. We meet once a day on Sundays and we do Yoga, Kabaddi and intellectual discussions on state of nation. We are considered the softies. Our ranks are made up of software engineers, project managers, IIT chaps etc etc and get thoroughly routed when we attend the RSS zonal shareerik meets. We softies and English touting are put down with ease by the same force which instills a sense of deep fear inside the peacefuls and the red-flag bearers in Kerala.

We have only one Guru, the saffron Bhagwa Dhwaja who we provide our humble offerings to every Guru pooja and we have only one youth icon. Swami Vivekananda.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 24 Mar 2014 13:28

Easy on the folks who don't know these aspects of RSS. It only means we in RSS have not done well in ensuring such info reaches all quarters.

Singhaji, I dont know about the dress part, will check with the RSS folks here but the pranaam of RSS has a very interesting reason to it and 100% SDRE only. The salute comes from Anglo Saxon sources and hence it was not appropriate. The hand is held across the chest and the head bowed down in obseisance to Bhagwa Dhwaj and Bharath Mata.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 24 Mar 2014 13:34

RSS was formed in 20th century and has done its job. In fact it has done a stellar job. Remember RSS was founded in 1925 when Hindus/Indics didn't have anything to represent them. RSS started inculcating pride in being a Hindu, improved mobilization skills of local Hindu Communities and started very low level militarization of its cadres. The problem with RSS started when it started focussing more on organisation building rather than action.

It will still continue to be there. But Hindus seriously need to up their game to counter the scourge of Islam, Evangelicals and the Global left and to this effect new initiatives are needed. These can be Organisations or individual based. But they have to be innovative(in terms of agenda, media management), less risk averse and focussed on action.

If ten years from now we are still dependent on RSS as the sole or even the major Hindu organisation, we would have failed

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 24 Mar 2014 13:48

Modi's Patna speech even after blasts changed my opinion: MJ Akbar

http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/459847/mod ... akbar.html

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 24 Mar 2014 13:55

I see now that there a plethora of organizations compared to say 20 years ago. There is the Youth for Dharma, Vigil foundation, Hindu Munnani (they have matured of late to a significant force), many Swamis working amidst tribals etc. All is not lost for Hindus if they somehow get some sense of identity and a pride to it.

SPattath · Post by **SPattath** » 24 Mar 2014 14:38

Singha wrote:imo nothing innately indic about the dated RSS dress of shirts and shorts.
they need to come up with a new dress to be more with the times and more form fitting to match trends.
and get deeply into organizing sports, charity events, feasts and physical training for children and women in every locality incl upper middle class...thats how "faith based initiatives" establish a initial footprint everywhere.

There are many IT milan's happening in Bangalore on Sunday's. No Dress code and is filled with IT professionals.One hour in a week well spent.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 24 Mar 2014 15:15

ravi_g wrote:As for Muttalik types, even if he is a genuine Hindutva vaadi still he is dangerous and mostly beyond redemption. There can always be found more disciplined people to do his jobs.

Just think about it, had the pub been such a white trash, was it not easier and more sensible to put the pressure someplace else in some other manner, instead of taking it out the on the patrons?

Muttalik types are action heroes. They do action. They see something is wrong in society and act intuitively to "fix" it. Often their fixes don't work out and there is all-round outrage. The outrage is that they are impinging on people's freedom and sensitivities.

But basically no one has provided them with a framework in which to act, any guidelines according to which they can help protect Bhartiyata. Instead what they see is rampant Love Jihad and Westernization taking place, and the current secular set up in India only encouraging it.

In Islamic world there are all sorts of atrocities - honor killings, stoning, etc. so why do we hardly hear any protest from the people against it - because there is an almost absolute consensus on what true Islam demands. "Moderates" make a few noises sometimes.

What Hindus like Pramod Muthalik need is a similar effort in Hindu Samaj to reach an understanding on how to resist Love Jihad, Westernization, etc. so that they have a template to do their work of enforcement.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 24 Mar 2014 15:20

Muthalik's pub attack was designed for maximum damage to "indic" causes what with the media being pre-invited to record and telecast the event. I mean, WTF?!

Mutalik seems to me to be a false flag op or a sellout or worse. Either way, can't be trusted.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 24 Mar 2014 15:43

Published on Mar 24, 2014
By Deepal Trivedi
How Advani was Modified: Mumbai Mirror

The Congress and L K Advani share a startling similarity. Both grossly underestimated the vindictive, street-smart political acumen of Narendra Modi. Modi's Machiavellianism versus Advani's shrewdness makes for an interesting study.

Advani has mentored Modi since 1985, not out of benevolence but cold political calculations. He wanted a man in Gujarat who could safeguard his position. Unlike Atal Behari Vajpayee's soft Hindutva, Advani prided himself in being a hardliner. Gujarat was a fertile land ready to harvest Hindutva, and an ambitious, ideology-driven RSS youth named Narendra Damodardas Modi became Advani's tool to further the cause. In March 1995, Keshubhai Patel formed the first majority BJP government, in Gujarat. Keshubhai was more thankful to Advani than Vajpayee.

Advani's muscular rhetoric and his Somnath to Ayodhya Rathyatra had played a pivotal role in metamorphosing Gujarat from a narrow Kshatriya versus Patel political society to an allcomposite Hindu versus Others masculine entity. One afternoon, observers remember a meeting at the Circuit House, Gandhinagar. A Contessa with Keshubhai and Advani in the back seat and Modi next to the driver was on its way when Govindacharya was spotted walking. The driver who had spent decades with Keshubhai stopped the car. Without asking Keshubhai, he asked Modi to get down and Govindacharya to get in. Modi walked down to the Circuit House.

This is an example of the respect or lack of it that Modi got from his party less than two decades ago. The same party stands completely Modified today. While Advani was always Modi's mentor, he had not objected to Modi being told to get down from the car by the driver.

Modi would have expected Advani to stand by him. Though it is debatable, an old school of RSS vouches that the Somnath-Ayodhya Rathyatra that catapulted BJP to national prominence was Modi's idea.

During the yatra, Modi was not only Advani's charioteer, he was his caretaker. That bonded their relationship. In the past, Modi has often been the son Advani wished Jayant would have been. Modi and Pratibha, Advani's daughter, also got along well. Later in 1995 when the BJP government fell in Gujarat after Shankarsinh Vaghela alleged too much interference by Modi and which eventually saw Modi being banished from Gujarat, Advani came to his rescue and 'rehabilitated' him in New Delhi. While Modi lived in Delhi, Advani's house was his second home. He always touched Advani's feet and called him Guru.

Vajpayee was never particularly enamoured by Modi who openly proclaimed hardline Hindutva. As Keshubhai publicly recalled in an interview with this writer in 2007, "Whenever I complained to Advaniji about Modi, his arrogance and wayward ways in which he was destroying the BJP, Advani invariably counselled me to ignore. 'He is young and immature in politics. He needs our guidance'." Keshubhai said Advani often apologised to him in the past for Modi's wrongdoings, but always defended him by saying his intentions were noble and would benefit the party. After Pramod Mahajan started gaining prominence in the party, Advani decided to 'cultivate' Modi as one of his loyalists.

In 2001 a coup to uproot Keshubhai was strategically planned post the Gujarat earthquake. The main conspirators were Haren Pandya, Sanjay Joshi and the RSS. Advani blessed the coup. He found more political future with Modi than Keshubhai. Pandya was later assassinated in mysterious circumstances and Joshi found himself banished following an explicit sex CD. Keshubhai who rebelled against Modi has now taken a back seat.

Advani who blessed the coup to make Modi the chief minister never saw Modi as a national leader. Two decades ago, we often saw Advani sermonising Modi about "national political mannerisms", senior BJP leaders from Gujarat recall. Modi nursed national political ambitions for decades but never voiced it. He just worked his way up.

The Congress, too, till 2007 casually dismissed Modi and his political charisma as a temporary state issue. The Congress High Command referred to Modi as "Gujarat material", that too "a temporary urban phenomenon". Both Advani and Congress had laughed off Modi as a national leader. He was considered "too awkward, not adequately updated and too naive for national politics".

What an irony and underassessment of a man whose political acumen today has been accepted internationally. Modi has been waging a lone battle. Advani was his Guru but the Guru-Shishya relationship that began from the Gujarat RSS headquarters at Kankaria in mid 70s had ended in 2005. Like true politicians, on and off both have kept on the charade of being close.

Politics is about change. Roles have reversed. Advani who was the Ram has become a helpless Bhishma Pitamah. Modi, meanwhile, is the flavour of the season — a Hindutva poster boy turned Mr Development.

Modi has steadily grown in political stature. Advani is past his prime. Though shrewd and wise, he is old. And as BJP leaders close to Modi say, Advani regrets being too generous to Modi. Modi sources say, has no regrets.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 24 Mar 2014 16:18

SanjayC wrote:
rohitvats wrote:So, Muthalik's goons attacking and thrashing girls in a pub is an example of INDIC forces? You think people like him represent Indian culture and thrashing people because they don't fall into your definition of Indic culture is OK? What next?
Some reports I read that time about the incident said the pub was apparently a place where impressionable Hindu teenage girls were being groomed (in compromising position) by their Muslim "boyfriends."

That is the usual nonsense added to such events to justify the act in retrospect. There is/was even an angle of strip-tease happening in the pub.

Having said that, what was the need to thrash girls and literally drag them out by their hair? Here is the link to the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEbD2aXs-XU

If this does not lead to revulsion in people, nothing will. People who peddle such nonsense deserve a boot in their nut-sack.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 24 Mar 2014 16:30

Somnath Bharti is hero of Middle class (As per AAPturds) while Muthalik is a villian...

archan · Post by **archan** » 24 Mar 2014 16:32

^ BRFites are experts at deliberately muddling issues. AFAIK Bharti was also unanimously condemned on BRF and outside. Now a middle class has come in. Now someone can ask how do you define middle class and...

Enough of this. NaMo has taken a quick and swift action and it is all done. So if anyone wants to discuss more on this, go to OT thread. Thankuu

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 24 Mar 2014 17:04

Beginning with Jammu rally on March 26, Modi will address 185 rallies in 295 constituencies, says BJP

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/nare ... 50981.html

Can one realistically hope that those 185 seats where rallies will be held are in the bag? And a have bumped up chances and share by some 5-10% in the remaining 110 nearby affected constituencies? Hopefully, full frontal focus will be on the marginal or battleground seats - where NM's visit might top scales. In safe seats and lost causes, some attention should go but not a whole lot, hopefully...

BJP said it has made an elaborate strategy for the "Modi for PM" campaign across the country.

Besides the BJP's prime ministerial candidate, party president Rajnath Singh will also address about 155 to 160 election rallies, it said.

Naqvi said senior leaders L K Advani, Sushma Swaraj, Arun Jaitley and M M Joshi, among others, will campaign in many constituencies.

Chief Ministers of Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Rajasthan and Goa will also be roped in for the campaigning, he said.

Nice that CMs are being roped in for campaigning. They should have national profile and name recognition, at least.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 24 Mar 2014 17:05

RajeshA wrote: Muttalik types are action heroes. They do action. They see something is wrong in society and act intuitively to "fix" it. Often their fixes don't work out and there is all-round outrage. The outrage is that they are impinging on people's freedom and sensitivities.

But basically no one has provided them with a framework in which to act, any guidelines according to which they can help protect Bhartiyata. Instead what they see is rampant Love Jihad and Westernization taking place, and the current secular set up in India only encouraging it.

In Islamic world there are all sorts of atrocities - honor killings, stoning, etc. so why do we hardly hear any protest from the people against it - because there is an almost absolute consensus on what true Islam demands. "Moderates" make a few noises sometimes.

What Hindus like Pramod Muthalik need is a similar effort in Hindu Samaj to reach an understanding on how to resist Love Jihad, Westernization, etc. so that they have a template to do their work of enforcement.

Beg to differ guru ji.

Action hero types are there at every level - NaMo, BR at higher level. The guy who planted the bumboo on the backsides of AAP tamashbeen at BJP-HQ (the lathait with Nalin Kohli) at lower level and millions like him. Raj Bala would be still another. The people who brave the EJs/Islamists, in the interiors would be action heros. You ask anyone of these guys and (presuming the pub was a vice-den) they would all have sent the message to the pub owner.

A man with the resources like Muttalik could easily have invited the owner for a bear in his own bar and encouraged him to hear out the appeal. The route instead Muttalik chose, had nothing to do with upholding anything or protecting anything. He was interested more in creating news. Calling Muttalik an action hero is doing injustice to people who actually have to slog only to be bad mouthed by half-converts, because of the antics of Muttalik types. Muttalik types are very much there, people who thrash their arms and legs around without hitting anything except their own purported cause.

In fact there is this case of another hot head who merely slapped a women once and the case did involve a flat booked for orgies. At least this guy had the brains to go after an actual case with the support of the locals. This man was also ousted from the relevant Sangh body. I believe rightly (though admittedly in the grey zone). Muttalik chose to ignore even that much of local support.

I personally do not mind head butting but only with the responsibility of upholding the ultimate goal.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 24 Mar 2014 17:07

ChandraV wrote:The lesson going out to all Mutaliks is: don't mess with the liberal middle-class. That will destroy you eventually. You have a much better chance of success if you co-opt the urban middle-class and make them a partner. Don't impose your values of culture and morals on them, work with them, that is your only shot at success.

Well, people like Mutalik are essential in a riot situation -- these are the dudes who throw the stones back at the peaceful community. Urban middle class is nowhere to be seen on these occasions -- they are busy watching the riot on TV.

archan · Post by **archan** » 24 Mar 2014 17:13

Second request, enough on Muthalik in this thread.

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Mar 2014 17:16

^^ Is it humanly possible to conduct 185 rallies in just 20 odd days??

Even if BJP wins, NaMo might require 1 month off just to recover from such tremendous strain!

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 24 Mar 2014 17:20

Why 20 days, the elections go until May mid?

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 24 Mar 2014 17:20

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/nare ... 50981.html

Wow this is big. Terminator is back and this time with the whole resistance firing all guns.

niran · Post by **niran** » 24 Mar 2014 17:22

Who in the name of AdMs ire is moothaleek?
now for some real data, I show 7 assam seats for bjp in 70/30 zone.
as of data collected 7 hours ago.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 24 Mar 2014 17:24

ChandraV wrote:The lesson going out to all Mutaliks is: don't mess with the liberal middle-class. That will destroy you eventually. You have a much better chance of success if you co-opt the urban middle-class and make them a partner. Don't impose your values of culture and morals on them, work with them, that is your only shot at success.

sorry archan ji, please grant me one last word..

Liberal middle class is over-rated, IMO. Muthaliks are essential and present in plenty. Liberal middle class is usually a section of society (or section of middle class - I am also middle-class and far from liberal in western context) that we call yuppies are one of the most deracinated sections of society who's conscience awakens suddenly over one particular headline of the day, they breast-beat on that issue, preferably on weekends, and feel accomplished. Muthalik was caught in such narrow situation wherein he did somethign stupid and it somehow got traction in MSM and this lib-middle class found a occasion to bathe in ganga and wash off their sins of non-vigilance. same as the way it happened in janlokpal mvmt, the agitations against nirbhaya rape. Nirbhaya's rape was heinous just like Muthalik's pub-adventure was stupid. Its not abt the incident per se. its about this tendency to do a token act and feel very liberated and vigilant.

Ordinary middle class of desh is not like this. They may not be "liberal" but they are vigilant of their interests and they did not give two hoots to Muthalik. Reason janlokpal agitation and nirbhaya succeeded in gaining so much traction was participation of this ordinary middle class. this ordinary middle class also comes on streets regularly to protest, participate in rallies and campaign. the lib-middle class type yuppies find it too cool to dirty their hands.

Muthalik's induction would have created unnecessary diversion in english language media. removing him was far more cheaper option. Furthermore, it provided the opportunity to cut the wings of prahlad joshi which in turn means cutting the wings of ananth kumar. an opportunity well utilized.

bajrang dal types per se is essential entity. when this same lib-middle class hears nara-e-takbeer, they yellow their patloons and ask for help from local BD, Shivsena type muthaliks to save their sorry musharrafs. And to keep it in mind, muthaliks, bajrangis and shivsainiks all come from ordinary middle class of non-liberal variety - they have stable day jobs, kids and families to look after. And their success is not dependent on lib-middle class types.

role of muthalik like people is also depicted in this epic song of 90s..

many bajrangis and sainiks are urged by parents to "see after" their kid (girl or boy) because they suspect the kid has gotten into wrong friend-circles and it may ruin him. Bajrangis many times do it at request of parents, which includes mild thrashing. It is better to thrash a mundaa before he "bigdaa jaaye"..

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 24 Mar 2014 17:32

ravi_g wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/nare ... 50981.html

Wow this is big. Terminator is back and this time with the whole resistance firing all guns.

I bet all these 185 rallies may swing 70-100 seats towards BJP. TsuNaMo is keeping up his name, when elections (shore) are approaching, the wave is getting bigger and I bet it will devastate ConEgress castle.

In an alternate universe PC is addressing another mega rally.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 24 Mar 2014 17:40

RajeshA wrote: Muttalik types are action heroes. They do action. They see something is wrong in society and act intuitively to "fix" it. Often their fixes don't work out and there is all-round outrage. The outrage is that they are impinging on people's freedom and sensitivities.

That is one heck of a specious argument.

Who are THEY to decide what is WRONG with a society? Who are THEY to decide what constitutes Indian culture and Hinduism? Is Muthalik and his goons better Hindus than those who were drinking in that pub? How does he get the right to give certificate of good and bad Hindu?

This is what would be described as Indian version of one person or group considering themselves to be more Saffron than the other. These people are not the societies conscience keepers - and if they have abrogated that role to themselves, then it is better that they be disabused of this notion.

But basically no one has provided them with a framework in which to act, any guidelines according to which they can help protect Bhartiyata. Instead what they see is rampant Love Jihad and Westernization taking place, and the current secular set up in India only encouraging it.

And which aspect of 'Bhartiyata' was served by hitting women and thrashing them? And dragging them by their hair?

People like him and who support him don't get to decide what is "Bhartiyata" and what is Indian culture. And especially not indulge in act of violence to ram their POV down people's throat. You don't like something, don't participate in it. Speak against it. Organize a movement against it. But violence is simply not acceptable. That is an easy way out. It is an act of a sick mind to beat-up women in name of religion.

The ones in to west are quite adept at doing this in the name of religion. I don't want that to happen in Hinduism.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 24 Mar 2014 17:53

^^

answered in ot dhaga, rohit ji..

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 24 Mar 2014 17:59

The Economic Mind of the BJP

In the mid-50s, Vajpayee was a young MP in a Parliament, overwhelmed by the Congress and led by the charismatic Nehru himself. There was a debate on building The Ashoka Hotel, which was to be India's first luxury hotel.

In one of the debates, Vajpayee pointed out that the job of the government is to build hospitals, not hotels. Nehru, patrician and renowned for his erudition, was furious at the intrusion of a junior MP from a then virtually non-existent political party.

He snapped at Vajpayee, saying that the young man didn't understand anything and that hospitals will be made from the profits of the hotel. Vajpayee used to joke that that hotel is still loss-making and you can see how many hospitals have been built.

But in September 2012, at a Stanford University lecture, Sinha spoke of how his commitment to market-friendly policy making had only brought him grief. He took blame for the BJP's epic rout in 2004. 'Sometimes, I feel that I may have been responsible single handedly for the defeat of my party in the 2004 elections. I can never forget the lessons I learnt in that election,' said Sinha.

'During my tenure as finance minister, I had raised the prices of kerosene oil from Rs 2.50 to Rs 9.50; kerosene oil is used on a large scale in the rural areas for both lighting as well as cooking.'

'When I went campaigning in a remote village in my constituency, and asked an old woman for her vote, she said that that was fine, but was I not responsible for raising oil prices which had made her life difficult?'

Even arguably the BJP's topmost contribution to India's development 'building new highways' didn't help it win the 2004 elections. The BJP and its allies lost all 14 seats which it had won in 1998 along the arterial National Highway 2, connecting eastern and north western India.

To try and understand the economic mind of the BJP, I took a ruler, a scale if you will, and drew parallel lines through the heart of India. The states that fall between these lines are Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh.

They are what the BJP describes as their 'model states'. They are also some of the fastest growing states in India. Each of these states show off different aspects of the economic mind of the BJP -- Gujarat shows over all ability to fix many of the problems that plague India (power theft, urban squalor, creating business friendly environments), Madhya Pradesh, led by Chief Minister Shivraj Singh Chouhan, has been about the spectacular turnaround of a sinking, ramshackle state into the agricultural powerhouse clocking an 18 per cent growth in wheat production in 2011-2012, beating traditional agrarian giants like Punjab and Haryana and winning the annual award for best performance in agriculture for the year.

Chhattisgarh, under Raman Singh, which was created as a new state at the same time as Jharkhand, had Rs 49 more as per capita income than Jharkhand in 2004-2005, but in 2012 the gap had widened to Rs 6,733.

In a state plagued with Naxal violence, Chhattisgarh still managed to transform one of the biggest problem areas of governance -- the theft-ridden, corruption plagued public distribution system through which subsidised food is provided to the poor.

Just by plugging the holes (theft in many parts of the country are as high as 40 per cent of the food supplied) and bringing it down to under 5 per cent, Chhattisgarh managed to bring down malnutrition from 54 per cent in 2006 to 38 per cent six years later.

Both Chouhan and Raman Singh have now won a third term.

This is not to say that there will not be inputs from central leaders. Yashwant Sinha says, if given a chance again, there are four things that will top his agenda -- bring down the number of central government-funded schemes from the current 147 to 10, have these schemes fully financed by the Centre and do away with the current method of joint financing with the states, and have stringent monitoring of the schemes.

"At the moment, around 100 schemes have a budget of less than Rs 300 crore. What we would apply are 10 really big ticket schemes in the areas of infrastructure, power, health and agriculture which will be on the basis of demand from the states, a bottom-up approach, instead of top down," he says.

He suggests dismantling the current system of five year plans envisaged by the central Planning Commission and reducing its term to two years to be able to focus on what can be implemented quickly.

The idea of a planning commission with five-year terms was borrowed from the Soviets and dates to Nehru's first prime-ministerial term.

Shourie says he despairs at the use of monetary policy to curb inflation, which he says is like "using an axe to kill a mosquito".

"We are in this vicious cycle. Neglect inflation, fiscal deficit spins out of control, and we respond through increased interest rates. We have off-budget expenses each year of around Rs 200,000 crore (in fuel and fertiliser subsidies) and no one talks about that," says Shourie, who proposes a complete freeze on all hikes on government expenditure except in defence and internal security.

"We must restrict the use of monetary policy and focus on fiscal policy. The focus must be on efficient delivery."

Both Sinha and Shourie are also arguing against the Gadgil-Mukherjee formula of distribution of central funds to states.

Created in 1990 by social scientist D R Gadgil and Pranab Mukherjee, the incumbent President who was then deputy chairman, Planning Commission, as per the formula, of every Rs 100 sent to the states, 55 per cent is on the basis of population (larger the population, more assistance), 25 per cent on the basis of per capita income, 5 per cent on fiscal management and 15 per cent on special problems including disasters, crumbling urban spaces, etc.

Shourie and Sinha argue that post liberalisation, with states often taking their own economic destiny in their hands, the formula is irrelevant.

The influence of the states is all but visible in this thinking.

Six years back, Narendra Modi had already begun railing against the Gadgil-Mukherjee formula. He called it a formula that 'punished' fiscally responsible, innovative and aggressively growing states.

As a solution, he suggested that each state be allowed to submit three critical areas for assistance, instead of the Centre judging needs and allocating budgets accordingly.

With a Congress government at the Centre, predictably Modi's suggestions were dismissed, but if the BJP wins, expect the Gadgil-Mukherjee formula to be re-crafted, if not scrapped outright.

Swamy, whose early mentors and inspirations were Simon Kuznets, Paul Samuelson and Milton Friedman, have brought what can be called the idea of nationalist capitalism to the Jan Sangh in the 1970s -- a free market swadeshi, if you will.

It was based on economic liberalism, complete breakaway from Nehruvian socialism and focuses on building Indian infrastructure and enterprises, including increased focus on agriculture.

Even today he says linking Indian rivers -- one of former prime minister Vajpayee's pet projects -- and extensive irrigation for agriculture are the two projects closest to his heart. "We have forgotten the art of self sufficiency," he says.

The BJP's prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi has now given us a vision of an era of continuous construction, as it were, from bringing bullet trains to building 100 new cities -- but the big question is where is the land and the money going to come from?

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 24 Mar 2014 18:08

Hari Seldon wrote:
Blistering attack on Sonia. One might add very valid quesions coming from a family insider

How did Sonia Gandhi become so rich? Maneka Gandhi asks (TOI)

If LKA was still in charge of the party he would force Maneka to apologise to Rajmata for these comments.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 24 Mar 2014 19:06

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 377_1.html

Kamal Thapa, the chairman of Nepal's fourth largest party, Rastriya Prajatantra Party, had announced here some days ago that India's policy towards Nepal would undergo some changes if the BJP came to power.

Addressing a media gathering in west Nepal in the second week of March, Thapa, who is a pro-royalist and pro-Hindu leader in contemporary politics, claimed that BJP prime ministerial aspirant Narendra Modi wanted Nepal to be a Hindu state.

"The Indian bureaucrats are dominating India's policy on Nepal at present but that would not happen if the BJP comes to power," said Thapa who had met Modi in India some months ago.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 24 Mar 2014 20:24

Black paint smeared on Modi posters in Varanasi

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/blac ... 50923.html

SP workers taking umbrage at 'Har har Modi' slogan...

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 24 Mar 2014 20:32

Amit Shah, who travelled 28,000 km across Uttar Pradesh between June last year and February this year, had come to the state with a clear message from Modi-be careful but ruthless while selecting candidates. Since Shah had been involved with ticket distribution in Gujarat for the 2012 elections, he was mindful of the dangers of picking candidates on 'personal requests'. Though Modi had won the Gujarat Assembly polls for the third straight time, he had lost seats in parts of north and central Gujarat due to wrong selection of candidates.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/bjp- ... 50563.html

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 Mar 2014 20:38

digvj to contest against Modi-breaking now

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Mar 2014 21:03

IndraD wrote:digvj to contest against Modi-breaking now

Hope he gets broken politcally.