Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

SwamyG
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SwamyG » 08 Jul 2014 04:56

Religious freedom should include freedom of proselytization. Hindu sages and philosophers preached too. So did Buddha and Mahavira. This talk of undermining native tradition would have been used diffidently 2000-3000 years ago as well. Monotheism should be beaten by logic and reason.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RamaY » 08 Jul 2014 08:30

SwamyG wrote:Religious freedom should include freedom of proselytization. Hindu sages and philosophers preached too. So did Buddha and Mahavira. This talk of undermining native tradition would have been used diffidently 2000-3000 years ago as well. Monotheism should be beaten by logic and reason.


That process was useful and binding on all sides of the discussion because the then Rajas were Dharmic and weren't Secular to keep allowing the illogical religion to survive and propagate even after it lost the logic/reason.

The same will be done in new-Bharat as well. The Rajadharma/Rashtra will be strengthened first so the logically and rationally defeated ideologies are summarily kicked out of Bharat (not just India) without the nonsense called Secularism.

Sir, THAT is the reason for my proposal to put a ban on religious conversions until ALL citizens have achieved Rashtra identified HDIndicators, which include per capita defense expenditure etc.,

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sachin » 08 Jul 2014 11:45

SaiK wrote:commies of mallooland joining bajapa is a scary thought!

This is scary if these people turn out to be turn-coats and would ditch BJP at the right moment. Another aspect I noticed is that in many parts of Northern Kerala (especially Kannur Dt.) it is tough for an ex-party worker (be it commie, or Sanghie) to survive if he comes out of the party. The only option for him is to join the next rival party. The rival party would then take it up to give adequate protection ;). Just before this elections, there was a case of many BJP workers joining CPI(M). So there is no great idealogical stuff happening here. Pure and simple opportunism.

Suraj wrote:The communist support base in Kerala is the Hindu OBCs. That they support the CPI/CPM is an anachronism, due to past communist support for their emancipation. They are a ripe demographic whose interests the BJP can safeguard as well or better than the communists, depending on how much effort the BJP is willing to put into it.

Agreed. But BJP I feel should have a Kerala-specific charter for this to be achieved. Some of the stuff which may work in rest of India, may not work in Kerala at all. I also feel that many commies now having pro-BJP thoughts may also be because of the over-pampering of the minorities by the Congress govt. (with the commie leadership keeping a "secular" silence). Antony's statement regarding the pampering also can be read in the same light. Many a neutral commie does have a feeling that secularism is going the wrong way in Kerala. The commie leadership still comes up with their emanicipation (of Hindu lower castes) stories of the 1940s and 1950s to show their relevance. People have started calling their bluff.

Now we discuss the commies, let me also put up a policy change from the commie side.
Put an end to education boycott strikes: SFI

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Neela » 08 Jul 2014 12:11

How Jairam Ramesh betrayed Indian interests in climate change conferences.

Ramesh finally revealed his true colours in the last hours of the Copenhagen conference. As he himself recounts, at President Obama's meeting with leaders of the BASIC (Brazil, South Africa, India, China) group, Ramesh offered to subject the unsupported, voluntary national actions of developing countries to "international consultation". The US side had, however, already pocketed this concession in their earlier meetings with Ramesh and they now asked for more. In the end, Ramesh conceded "international consultation and analysis". The reader may judge whether this honoured the minister's assurance to Parliament, or the assurances he had offered earlier to his American interlocutors in New York.

Next year, at the Cancun conference, Ramesh took the axe to the two other pillars of the Indian stand. Departing from the prepared text, he declared, "All countries, we believe, must take on binding commitments under appropriate legal forms". This implied that India was ready to convert its voluntary national targets into internationally binding commitments in an "appropriate" legal form. Facing a storm of protest on his return, the minister sought to explain away his statement by claiming that by "appropriate legal form" he only meant domestic legislation. He did not explain why he had not the used the simple phrase "domestic legislation" in his speech instead of an elaborate formulation with a very different connotation.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Neela » 08 Jul 2014 12:34

Suraj wrote:It's not. The communist support base in Kerala is the Hindu OBCs. That they support the CPI/CPM is an anachronism, due to past communist support for their emancipation. They are a ripe demographic whose interests the BJP can safeguard as well or better than the communists, depending on how much effort the BJP is willing to put into it.


Isn't it too early to expect returns from Kerala?
Modi only started 2-3 years back . Priority was always UP as seat share in Parliament was massive there.
He has started with the Sivagiri Mutt, the Ezhava & Pulaya community & also with Mata Am'mayi.

Also, this news of CPM cadres joining BJP is similar to what is happening in Bengal. A rudderless CPM policy will help BJP.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby panduranghari » 08 Jul 2014 12:47

Neela wrote:How Jairam Ramesh betrayed Indian interests in climate change conferences.

Ramesh finally revealed his true colours in the last hours of the Copenhagen conference. As he himself recounts, at President Obama's meeting with leaders of the BASIC (Brazil, South Africa, India, China) group, Ramesh offered to subject the unsupported, voluntary national actions of developing countries to "international consultation". The US side had, however, already pocketed this concession in their earlier meetings with Ramesh and they now asked for more. In the end, Ramesh conceded "international consultation and analysis". The reader may judge whether this honoured the minister's assurance to Parliament, or the assurances he had offered earlier to his American interlocutors in New York.

Next year, at the Cancun conference, Ramesh took the axe to the two other pillars of the Indian stand. Departing from the prepared text, he declared, "All countries, we believe, must take on binding commitments under appropriate legal forms". This implied that India was ready to convert its voluntary national targets into internationally binding commitments in an "appropriate" legal form. Facing a storm of protest on his return, the minister sought to explain away his statement by claiming that by "appropriate legal form" he only meant domestic legislation. He did not explain why he had not the used the simple phrase "domestic legislation" in his speech instead of an elaborate formulation with a very different connotation.


If we withdraw from WTO, like China and Russia are planning to, the Climate change nonsense will become non binding. This is my understanding. Can someone correct me if this is an incorrect assumption?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 08 Jul 2014 16:09

Neela wrote:Isn't it too early to expect returns from Kerala?
Modi only started 2-3 years back . Priority was always UP as seat share in Parliament was massive there.
He has started with the Sivagiri Mutt, the Ezhava & Pulaya community & also with Mata Am'mayi.

Also, this news of CPM cadres joining BJP is similar to what is happening in Bengal. A rudderless CPM policy will help BJP.


If there's any one person in the world after Mikhail Gorbachev who's done more to inadvertently cripple global communism, it is Prakash Karat. More power to him, I say.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_28025 » 08 Jul 2014 16:45

Germany's Angela Merkel to choose World Cup final over PM Modi

What is wrong with our journalists? Angela Merkel is not choosing the world cup final over Modi. She is giving priority to her country and its players by being present at the world cup final. I applaud her for this gesture. I'm sure Modi would have done the same for the Indian cricket team.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby chetak » 08 Jul 2014 16:52

Shamlee wrote:Germany's Angela Merkel to choose World Cup final over PM Modi

What is wrong with our journalists? Angela Merkel is not choosing the world cup final over Modi. She is giving priority to her country and its players by being present at the world cup final. I applaud her for this gesture. I'm sure Modi would have done the same for the Indian cricket team.


The cockroaches and rats are starving and have become desperate with hunger because the "crumbs" from the table are available no more.

Modi runs a clean table.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Comer » 08 Jul 2014 16:57

I guess NaMo and BJP are smart enough to feed some morsels to the press. If not someone else would take the initiative.
EDIT : woah 1000!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sachin » 08 Jul 2014 17:07

Hari Seldon wrote:If there's any one person in the world after Mikhail Gorbachev who's done more to inadvertently cripple global communism, it is Prakash Karat. More power to him, I say.

Yes, we should also not forget the yeomenry services rendered by Com. P. Vijayan and his able team of comrades from Kannur Dt. in Kerala, who valiantly ensured that the party loses out in Kerala. The "global communism" at least for Indians, was only in W.B, KER and Tripura. I am sure Keralites would have now fully realised the merits of living under a Stalinist model of communism; with full focus on purges of rival party members, party committees (even enquiring murder cases), infiltration of various state agencies etc. Off course the comrades could not bring in a 100% Stalinist "people's republic" because Kerala was a state in the Indian Union, but they did try their best given the circumstances. Full marks to them as well 8).

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby vivek.rao » 08 Jul 2014 17:59

Cong protests show why Modi must not budge on LoP issue


The Congress party's hypocritical belligerence over the inflationary legacy it has left behind and its sense of entitlement over the post of leader of opposition (LoP) should serve as a warning sign of things to come for Prime Minister Narendra Modi. He is going to get more opposition, not less, even if he were to give the Congress the position it did not earn.


The Gandhi family believes it is born to rule and its hubris will prevent decent behaviour in parliament or outside. This is why even when it was clear it would lose in May 2014, it planted so many ticking bombs in the economy that its successor would rue his victory. The Gandhi family’s attitude has thus been: “If we can't rule, we will ensure someone else can't either.


This is the situation that confronts Modi as he faces his first parliamentary test this month and the next. If he has read the tea leaves correctly, he has to realise that he has no option but to fight on, to move forward with reforms, make the necessary political changes and opt for a tough budget. Retreat is not an option for him. In the next three days, we will know what he has chosen as the railway and union budgets are unveiled.

In war as in peace, you have to take the fight to the enemy camp. Soft gestures and grace are for people with humility - not people with hubris. In the weeks after he was elected, Modi surprised everybody with his extreme courtesy and large-heartedness. But he got only unremitting hostility from the Congress and its compatriots in defeat - the Left, the Lalu Prasads and the Nitish Kumars.


With the enemies about to gang up (Lalu and Nitish are already talking alliance), Modi needs to be clear that he has to play the game differently: he has to strengthen his alliances, divide his opposition, push reforms quickly, and not delay tough decisions. It is tempting to believe that after this year’s round of assembly elections – in Delhi, J&K, Haryana and Maharashtra - he can move faster on his agenda. But this is an illusion. This is exactly what the UPA thought. It kept postponing tough decisions till it became too late.


Let’s assume Modi wants to go slow on reforms till around November-December, when the assembly elections are out of the way. Will this help? Without reforms, inflation is not going to get cured, especially if we are headed for a partial drought and an Iraq oil crisis; the stock markets will be disappointed, and raising money from disinvestment will be difficult when that is the only avenue left for revenues. Not only that, politically, every ally and party worker will have come to the conclusion that Modi can be forced to back off and retreat, and the anti-reformers will gain traction and political clout.

During the elections, the BJP’s rivals will be tom-tomming the fact that he did little, and inflation is still the same, growth is not reviving, and even the markets are turning tail. Modi would then look like a normal politician doing the normal about-turns.
In the best-case scenario, the BJP may win all assembly elections. This would be a clear gain – if it can be ensured. But can the BJP really expect to win Delhi all that easily, when it has no leader worth the name and the Aam Aadmi Party is correcting its past mistakes? What if there is another stalemate?


Now, let us examine the other side of the equation – if Modi takes the risks and all the right tough decisions before the elections. Subsidies are cut, energy is deregulated, all of which results in a short-term inflation spike and growth taper. The latter is the inevitable immediate consequence of reform.
In this event, Modi has a story to tell the electorate. ‘I had to fix the damage done by the past, and so I ask you to grin and bear it this time. I promise things will get better in 12-18 months. I seek your vote to complete the process of change. Don’t vote the guys who messed up and now promise the moon. It was their mistakes that got us here.’


A year down the line, these decisions will start bearing fruit. He can legitimately claim credit for them. The markets will boom, business will be happy.
A leader has to lead. Compromise and fudge are for lesser make-do managers, not can-do leaders. Modi has to move forward, not sideways or backward.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby RoyG » 08 Jul 2014 18:07

1000 Pages...wow!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_28468 » 08 Jul 2014 19:19

Finally it is 1000

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby johneeG » 08 Jul 2014 19:22

Legendary thread!!! Take a bow, Arjun! :D

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Sanku » 08 Jul 2014 19:27

johneeG wrote:Legendary thread!!! Take a bow, Arjun! :D



Image

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Rudradev » 08 Jul 2014 19:44

Yes, a truly historic thread initiated by Arjun, monitoring the progress of a contest of ideas that led all the way to an electoral victory. Congratulations, Arjun.

I'm going to propose, however, that the admins lay this thread to rest now and archive it. It has already broken BRF records several times over. The problem now is that it's become a catch-all location for posts and discussions that might be more useful (and easily referenceable/retrievable) if they were made in specialized threads-- Modi Sarkar Policies & Implementation, Indian Political Scene, etc. where they have appropriate relevance.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 08 Jul 2014 19:47

1008?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby fanne » 08 Jul 2014 19:55

Maybe BJP rule for next 1000 years!!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby muraliravi » 08 Jul 2014 20:10

fanne wrote:Maybe BJP rule for next 1000 years!!


Tatasthu

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby LakshO » 08 Jul 2014 20:13

Hi all,

Awesome thread! Is there a way to convert all 1000 pages into a PDF, with timestamp, inline pics & all?

I know there is a tool a BRFite created that is used by BRF regulars to do it. Has anybody tried it with 1000 page thread?

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby IndraD » 08 Jul 2014 20:20

Modi shouldn't forget my name is Barack HUSSEIN Obama http://linkis.com/telegraphindia.com/mETNg

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Saral » 08 Jul 2014 20:44

Om Namo Namo Namo .... 1000th page Narayanana

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ramana » 08 Jul 2014 21:21

SaiK wrote:1008?



Yes. Idea is to archive it at 1008 pages.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby KJo » 08 Jul 2014 21:27

fanne wrote:Maybe BJP rule for next 1000 years!!


I want Shri Modi to rule for the next 1000 years!!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby manju » 08 Jul 2014 21:39

Ramanagru

When you freeze at 1008 pages and convert it into a pdf, i suggest that a pdf version be sent to Narendra Modi as a momento. It should have all the BRF memebers' (who posted on this thread) electronic signature.

I am sure Modi will accpet this.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ramana » 08 Jul 2014 21:39

Yes. The idea is this is the real Modinama!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SandeepA » 08 Jul 2014 21:58

ramana wrote:Yes. The idea is this is the real Modinama!


..in that case let me add my 2 cents...Namo Namo :)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby chaanakya » 08 Jul 2014 22:05

On Achieving 1000 pages mark Congraulations to all who contributed to this journey of hope.

Har Har Modi Har Baar Modi.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby manish singh » 08 Jul 2014 22:47

As this thread nears its end, I would like to take this opportunity for some introspection. I was wrong in demanding that BJP should form the state government in Delhi on moral grounds being the single largest party. As it turned out, it was a master stroke to let AAP form the government. I could never imagine that Kejriwal would abdicate so shamelessly. Junta saw through the charade of bhagoda and rest is history. Thanks Ramana and other BRFites for regularly clearing the fundae of noobs like me.

On a personal note, I was a Modi hater until 2005 when I started reading BRF. I would always be indebted to BRF for making me realize that in Narendra Modi we finally have a leader who come once in several centuries and change the course of our Bharatvarsha for the better.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Gus » 08 Jul 2014 23:22

eklavya wrote:How does Modi even get past Sushma Swaraj, Arun Jaitley, etc. in his own party, let alone convince NDA allies to serve in a government lead by himself?


From first page :lol: :P :rotfl: :twisted:

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby ramana » 08 Jul 2014 23:23

To remind ourselves of how it began:

viewtopic.php?p=1380491#p1380491

Momentous changes have swept the Indian political firmament over the past year and a half, that are only likely to accelerate over the next year into 2014 and maybe beyond.

While the idea of India has been debated to death on this forum and other similar ones for more than a decade, the intellectual discourse was always strangely divorced from the on-the-ground political reality. This year finally marks the emergence in the country of a clear delineation of political alternatives - each with their own strongly sketched-out ideas of India and its place in the world.

A key factor bringing these alternate ideas into sharp focus has been the emergence of Narendra Modi as a political force, with ideas that some would say are radical - that India does not need to be forever mired in the Politics of Victimhood & Votebanking, that Governance can indeed be corruption-free at all levels, that Transformative economic development can coexist with drawing strength from Traditions & that Indians can come together meritocratically to push the achievement bar much higher in industry, sciences and other spheres. And that all of this can be achieved without relying on that old Indian (Nehruvian?) failing of Dynastic Raaj.

As opposed to this - we have what has come to be regarded by the vast tribe of JNU Delhi 'intellectuals' as the traditional ‘idea of India’ – that ‘Inclusiveness’ is the supreme ideal taking precedence over either Growth or Meritocracy, that the paternalistic guiding hand of Dynastic Rule is a uniquely ‘Indian’ flavour of democracy that needs to be understood and accepted, that the more evolved Indian liberalism of Sapeksha Dharma needs to be replaced by Western ideas of religious liberalism and that ‘Indian culture’ requires Tolerance of ideologies even when these ideologies don’t reciprocate to make the tolerance mutual.

This thread will NOT be used for discussing poll strategies or for analyzing election results – there are other threads in this forum for that purpose. The focus here will be more on analysis of and study of implications of these contrasting ideals, their key champions / public faces and the likelihood of success for each alternative. Analysis of past events (eg ’84 and ’02 riots), while relevant to some extent to understanding each proponent – will also not be allowed to derail the thread from its main objective. Logical analysis and commentary is encouraged, and consistent evidence of trolling will, I hope, be dealt with appropriately.

Hope the moderators allow this thread to remain for future discussion. India seems to be finally ready politically for mature analysis of these contrasting ideals, and the implications of each are clearly of enormous consequence to India’s future.



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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Vamsee » 08 Jul 2014 23:39

Great Thread.
NaMo Namaha :-)

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby NikhilB » 09 Jul 2014 00:06

I am going to show this thread to my son / grandchildren to tell' m that we did our bits in those historic times !!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby member_22733 » 09 Jul 2014 00:29

To be honest, never in my wildest dreams did I think that a true "Bharath Rakshak", a true son of the soil, a true "Arihant" will arise like Narasimha rose out of a pillar to vanquish the demon scum that was desolating India.

May he and his legacy bring a 1000 years of peace and prosperity to this destitute and wounded civilization.

Har Har Modi!

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Prem » 09 Jul 2014 01:05

This Chapter in Indian history should be titled as Dynasty Mardan Nama. The destruction of Dynasty,Commie and PSecularsm is like the elimination of Lochan, Chand, Mund ,Shumb and Nisumbh by Durga . Next step in natural evolution is to manifest Kali and remove all the children, NGOs etc of these Paapputras.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby KJo » 09 Jul 2014 01:29

johneeG wrote:Legendary thread!!! Take a bow, Arjun! :D


Arjuna, after taking his bow!

Image

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby KJo » 09 Jul 2014 01:33

I take full credit for Modi becoming PM. 8)
My "Location" has proven to be lucky for Shri Modi.

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Location: Narendra Modi for Pradhan Mantri!


I put this in around the time Shri Modi became the BJP candidate.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby SaiK » 09 Jul 2014 01:35

We don't want to miss Singha's story.
And I hope Kangrez lose the oppoistion leader post as well within 1008 pages.

so please canvas for a non-kangrez opposition leader

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Postby Hari Seldon » 09 Jul 2014 06:16

A 1000 pages.

Documenting an epochal journey in the life of a timeless nation...

Kudos to Arjun's eagle eye in conceptualizing and implementing it.

Time to honor this dhaga by closing and archiving it. JMTPs of course.


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