Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 19 Oct 2013 19:12

14 choice quotes from namo at the kanpur rally today

fun read from niticentral.com

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 19 Oct 2013 19:25

Jayalalithaa doesn’t meet Modi, keeps BJP and UPA both guessing

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 19 Oct 2013 19:27

One more thing RMji

http://www.mediacrooks.com/2013/10/comm ... mKUDHBea9Q

History is written not because we would like to change it. We obviously cannot. History is written so that we discover and learn the truth about our past and who we were and why we are the way we are. And in learning those truths we hope to undertake a better journey than the one in the past and retain the best from what our ancestors left us. The “indomitability of the human spirit” equally applies to Hindus and the other natives of this land (Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists etc). It is probably the only race of people and culture that murderous invaders couldn’t wipe out. That’s half the story. But when you have crooks who constantly distort and lie about history and have been doing so unchecked then your future is likely to be just as distorted and painful. That is how India got here. That is what the Commies were and are doing, as is the MSM that is infested with them. Nothing would please the Commies and the Congis (and DMK types) for the Hindu identity to completely disappear. Their consistent actions have proved that they would rather have Yadavs, Brahmins, Rajputs, Ezhavas, Dalits, Jats, Gujjars, Harijans, OBCs, Tribals etc. as identities rather than anything that is remotely called “Hindu”.

In the introduction to my book “Social Media as watchdog” I wrote: “One of the biggest challenges for students coming out of schools and colleges in India is not remembering what they learnt but unlearning what they did. This is particularly true of history courses. Much of our history taught in schools cannot exactly be described as accurate. Designed as they were by left-leaning historians, the courses use an abundant dose of imagination and distortion. Thus, students have to learn true history and facts only outside of schools. The same experience is true for the whole population when they encounter Mainstream Media”.

Till after the 2007 elections in Gujarat I had no idea what caste or tribe Narendra Modi was from. I didn’t know YSR Reddy, the late Andhra CM, was a Christian. Frankly, I couldn’t have cared less. Guess who educated me? It was NDTV, CNN-IBN and other similar channels that ran bios of Modi and educated me that he was an OBC, a Ghanchi (supposedly the Barber clan). Was there any purpose to it? His victory hurt Barkha Dutt so much that she tagged all Gujjus as “effete” people. Such tagging is one of the most important features of the Commies. Anyone that challenges their incestuous circle will be tagged with unthinkable names and adjectives even if that person is holding evidence of unshakeable truth. Lavrentiy Beria, Security Head under Stalin is credited with the line “You bring me the man, I’ll find you the crime”. To put it more bluntly, I love the James Hadley Chase title: “You find him, I’ll fix him”. They will negate everything about a person or an organisation. They will manufacture crimes. RSS runs “Bomb-making” factories! Ring a bell? Here’s something I’ve written before:

Historians of the Aligarh school (e.g. Irfan Habib) or Indian Marxists (e.g. Romila Thapar) have resorted to history-rewriting: "Therefore, in 1982 the National Council of Educational Research and Training (NCERT) issued a directive for the rewriting of schoolbooks. Among other things, it stipulated that: "Characterization of the medieval period as a time of conflict between Hindus and Muslims is forbidden." Under Marxist pressure, negationism has become India's official policy”. It actually recommends dumbing down of students. Effectively, it meant the horrors of Indian Islamic history must be hidden from our students. Students who cared were able to get to the real history but our MSM still follows that diktat.

Under the CPM govt in Bengal a circular dated 28 April, 1989 is issued by the West Bengal Secondary Board. It is in Bengali, and carries the number "Syl/89/1" (For Class-9. Here “Aushuddho” supposedly means “impure” and “Shuddho” is “cleanse” by alteration or by deletion)

Book : Bharatvarsher Itihash, by Dr. Narendranath Bhattacharya, published by Chakravarty & Son:
Page 89 : Aushuddho - "Sultan Mahmud used force for widespread murder, loot, destruction and conversion."
Shuddho - "There was widespread loot and destruction by Mahmud." That is, no reference to killing, no reference to forcible conversions.
Page 89 : Aushuddho - "He looted valuables worth 2 crore dirham from the Somnath temple and used the Shivling as a step leading up to the masjid in Ghazni."

Shuddho - "Delete 'and used the Shivling as a step leading up to the masjid in Ghazni.'"
Page 112 : Aushuddho -- "Hindu-Muslim relations of the medieval ages is a very sensitive issue. The non- believers had to embrace Islam or death."
Shuddho -- All matter on pages 112-13 to be deleted.
Page 113 : Aushuddho - "According to Islamic law non-Muslims will have to choose between death and Islam. Only the Hanafis allow non-Muslims to pay jaziya in exchange for their lives."
Shuddho - Rewrite this as follows : "By paying jaziya to Allauddin Khilji, Hindus could lead normal lives." Moreover, all the subsequent sentences "Qazi...", "Taimur's arrival in India..." to be deleted.
Page 113 : Aushuddho - "Mahmud was a believer in the rule of Islam whose core was 'Either Islam or death'.
Shuddho -- Delete

In his book on Negationism, Koenrad Elst recalls Nehru’s admiration for Mahmud Ghaznavi

The best-known propounder of negationism was certainly Jawarharlal Nehru… his writings contain some crude cases of glorification of Muslim tyrants and concealment or denial of their crimes. Witness his assessment of Mahmud Ghaznavi, who, according to his chronicler Utbi, sang the praise of the temple complex at Mathura and then immediately proceeded to destroy it. Nehru writes: "Building interested Mahmud, and he was much impressed by the city of Mathura near Delhi". About this he wrote: "There are here a thousand edifices as firm as the faith of the faithful; nor is it likely that this city has attained its present condition but at the expense of many millions of dinars, nor could such another be constructed under a period of 200 years." And that is all: Nehru described the destroyer of Mathura as an admirer of Mathura, apparently without noticing the gory sarcasm in Ghaznavi's eulogy. Moreover, Nehru denied that Mahmud had committed his acts of destruction out of any religious motive: "Mahmud was not a religious man. He was a Mohammedan, but that was just by the way. He was in the first place a soldier, and a brilliant soldier."

In Kerala we had a CPM politician openly declaring political murder was a natural practice of the party. MM Mani just gets suspended for six months when he should have been in jail. What about the killings under the CPM itself in Bengal? Here’s an interesting read that is fairly reliable given the violent and criminal nature of Commie politics:

55000? That’s like one “Gujarat 2002” for every year of CPM in Bengal, isn’t it? But which one gets the most noise in our media? To avoid interpreting selectively I recommend reading the full story which is even more damning. Did you ever see such an important story being discussed in any news channel or newspaper? Did you see a debate anywhere? Stupid channels spend hours discussing a stray comment of some Cleric called Madani but never in the last 20 years has any channel discussed the crimes of the Commies. Why? Because they ARE the Commies!

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 19 Oct 2013 19:29

prahaar wrote:RMji, the above statement attributed to RSS is nothing new. OTOH, it is their fundamental ideology. RSS does not advocate bhakti to any Devi or Devta or Guru. On Vijayadashami, the salute is ONLY to the Bhagwa as a representation of Maa Bharati. Rashtra First, Always. I have been told this in RSS shakha since day 1. Mohanji's statement is NOT a trial balloon, it is the core ideology of RSS, surprised to see that many people still do not know this.

Good that u have clarified it. A lot of folks on this forum - brihaspati, atri etc - thinks RSS as HSS ( hindu swayam sevak ). The key is R for rastra and that is what I have been saying all along is the focus of RSS and NAMO. And today he made my day when he said in Kanpur "the goddness of hindu, the goodness of muslime, the goodness of Sikh , the goodness of cristians.. will have to be harnessed to throw aways congress and liberate India". I am not sure what this will do to the hard core Hindu vadis but as a pure nationalist my votes are with him.

Another thing is that it is case of alternative in voting. On a day NAMO's speech may not be the best but then compare it with those of any of his competitor and he wins every day hands down. So clearly NAMO is the first alternative by yards from RG/CONGRESS and that should see him through to 200+ seats.

I have a feeling that he may have arrived at the scene 10 years late. At 62 he is already a senior citizen and him drinking glass of water frequently may not go down well on the electorate like AVB walking with support.

Yogesh · Post by **Yogesh** » 19 Oct 2013 19:38

^^ das je 62 is young per Indian standard (for a PM post)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Oct 2013 20:00

RD wrote:

...People constantly living in a place naturally gravitate to other people whose opinions would be more similar to their own, over time; and people tend to tell an individual what they think (know) the individual would want to hear, so if they know someone as a Modi supporter they will tend to sound more enthusiastic about Modi than they really are. In my case, nobody I talk to knows my background or preferences-- so it's a truly random sample.

Recall your debates with the another member about herd mentality among herd of wild animals which have random placement but once a certain number finds the grazing the whole herd converges?
I recall faintly the number was about 15% to lead to herd convergence.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 19 Oct 2013 20:03

Subhamoy Das ji,

Responding you because you pinpointed me. I understand very intimately what RSS etc stand for.. The interpretation of word "hindu" in sangh and its prarthana is very clear and so is the term Hindu-rashtra.

As far as temples are concerned, I have repeatedly made my stance on the very institution of temple quite clear. The word "hindu" is nothing to shy away from, and sangh does not shy away from it. Bhaarat Mata in sarsanghchaalak's speech is bhagwa dhvaj carrying durga that is Akhand Bhaarat.

I stand by the words of Sarsanghchaalak, but I urge you to understand sangh personally before commenting on such statements. The connotations behind such sentences changes meaning when Pa.Pu. Sarsanghchaalak ji says it.

Matrubhumi is Hindubhumi for sangh...

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Oct 2013 20:15

Photo from Chennai. More @ http://www.narendramodi.in/shri-modi-re ... i-airport/

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Oct 2013 20:17

the only way to united party that can take 2/3rd majority in the future is by have a distributed party setup, where more representatives from city/town/panchayat based budgets and allocations happen. instead of breaking up states into multiple states, it is better take the brass tacks all the way to panchayat raaj - in the sense, revamp panchayat to work like democracy - have mini assemblies, that acts like states.

the faster a party does this, is the future party of india.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 19 Oct 2013 20:25

There is not much of a wave here in the south(visited places in K'taka and TN). There is admiration and a desire to see him as PM but nowhere close to going out and voting for him.

Elsewhere Amma's unnavakam(meals scheme) is used only by migrant workers and the lwoer strata are dismayed by the quality of the food served(excpet for a couple of locations close to her home) lot of bad vibes about DMK.

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 19 Oct 2013 20:31

Sri wrote: Yes. But he will say that algorithm is pure and unbiased. And I would agree with him.

The algorithm prioritizes the news based on source. Source prioritization happens depending upon number of updates a domain gets in a day. The more updates you have and the more it gets clicked or broadcasted and linked in social media the more attention a source will get by the crawler. Of course another major criteria is ad source. This depends on the quality of ads or adwords that gets flashed in relation to the content of a domain.

So any anti Modi news is getting instant hit by both dharmics and leftist. And both group then link it with their social media (Face book Twitter). Dharmics whole online presence is kinda linked with linking these stories and then debunking them. BRF could be used as an example.

Also, leftists do not link pro Modi articles in their social presence because if they do and then post negative comments on that article then their social presence gets kinda saturated because of huge wrath of Internet Hindus.

No wonder then, since the mainstream media website gets updated all the time, their articles will be judged more relevant by the algorithm. And since mainstream media is biased only in this category, google has no choice but go by mathematically pure selection. Keyword and search specific filters are not allowed in google otherwise the CCP would have loved them for sure. But I think one should notice the comments section of these news, equally strong pro modi voices get read too.

My feeling is internet is overwhelmingly Modi territory. 'Modi's social media presence and google anomaly' is going to be my next paper and lets see if I get an offer from google. I am already counting the links in this dhaga to see if my preliminary hypothesis is correct . Will post my findings on relevant dhaga.

What is preventing Google from using data from Facebook and Twitter as well when it comes to search (need not be live, but at least update every now and then)? Self interest? Is the old paradigm of web crawling and looking at linkage patterns becoming less relevant for "people" searches? I guess only time will tell if the targeted ad business will move in a significant way to facebook and twitter. I think Modi is an excellent example to illustrate this "anomaly" as you put it.

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 19 Oct 2013 20:31

Sri wrote: Yes. But he will say that algorithm is pure and unbiased. And I would agree with him.

The algorithm prioritizes the news based on source. Source prioritization happens depending upon number of updates a domain gets in a day. The more updates you have and the more it gets clicked or broadcasted and linked in social media the more attention a source will get by the crawler. Of course another major criteria is ad source. This depends on the quality of ads or adwords that gets flashed in relation to the content of a domain.

So any anti Modi news is getting instant hit by both dharmics and leftist. And both group then link it with their social media (Face book Twitter). Dharmics whole online presence is kinda linked with linking these stories and then debunking them. BRF could be used as an example.

Also, leftists do not link pro Modi articles in their social presence because if they do and then post negative comments on that article then their social presence gets kinda saturated because of huge wrath of Internet Hindus.

No wonder then, since the mainstream media website gets updated all the time, their articles will be judged more relevant by the algorithm. And since mainstream media is biased only in this category, google has no choice but go by mathematically pure selection. Keyword and search specific filters are not allowed in google otherwise the CCP would have loved them for sure. But I think one should notice the comments section of these news, equally strong pro modi voices get read too.

My feeling is internet is overwhelmingly Modi territory. 'Modi's social media presence and google anomaly' is going to be my next paper and lets see if I get an offer from google. I am already counting the links in this dhaga to see if my preliminary hypothesis is correct . Will post my findings on relevant dhaga.

What is preventing Google from using data from Facebook and Twitter as well when it comes to search (need not be live, but at least update every now and then)? Self interest? Is the old paradigm of web crawling and looking at linkage patterns becoming less relevant for "people" searches? I guess only time will tell if the targeted ad business will move in a significant way to facebook and twitter. I think Modi is an excellent example to illustrate this "anomaly" as you put it.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Oct 2013 20:32

^admiration and desire is all that is needed. rest will happen if bhooth kapture does not happen.

we shall see.. now it all depends on brass tacks.

--

http://news.oneindia.in/chennai/why-jay ... 26783.html
people are graduating to desires and admirations as well.. just like amma unavagam, people will see similar aspects for them. jaya has to be now very careful in such oppty missing.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Oct 2013 20:41

Rudradev wrote:Arrived in Mumbai about ten days ago. Seriously, per my observation there is no "Modi wave" here. Everybody talks about Modi as a news item of interest, but of all the 50-odd people I've so far had relevant conversations with, maybe 6 are enthusiastic supporters of Modi who were actually eager to go out and vote for him.

1) I guess Mumbaikars who feel they live in the City of Dreams of India where the system still works, would not be so enthusiastic about some outsider.

2) Till now, Modi has mostly had talks with the moneyed elite in Mumbai. That would come in handy later on. He has not held any rallies there, he hasn't started campaigning there.

3) If what I am hearing is correct, that MNS is on board, BJP giving 4 of their seats to RT from their quota, then it could mean the Shiv Sena and MNS would be doing the heavy lifting in MH. A TsuNaMo would not be needed there.

4) There is still time for the Modi wave to build up - almost 8 months.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Oct 2013 20:45

Rahul Mehta wrote:Is RSS-apex throwing a trial balloon to ditch Ram Jamambhoomi, KJB, KBV? Mohan Bhagawat says "Forget gods, goddesses, only think of Mother India".

That to me sounds a lot like Savarkar! And when people opt for Savarkar, then one knows they are becoming serious about an issue. It is not just limited to show-off and theater Hinduism.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Oct 2013 20:47

Rahul Mehta wrote: First NaMo made his notorious or famous and landmark Sb4D remark. I wont write that remark in full. NaMo is brave and he could make such a statement. While I am coward and I do not have courage to put those two words in the same sentence. That statement was a trial balloon to see if Tridevalayavaadies aka Threetemplists can mutter any voice. Now Bhagwat has made similar statement. Both NaMo and Bhagwat are seasoned and cunning fellows. and both know how to make statements in oblique way so that none can directly accuse them of backstabbing or frontstabbing or ditching Tridevalayavaadies. And if Tridevalayavaadies muster courage put up a show, then they may retract. And if Tridevalayavaadies fail to mutter any noise, then they wish to bury the issue till MNC-owners order them to raise it.

JMHO.

As long as Indian Constitution remains Crypto Christian (secularism = Christianity without church), the TriDevalaya issue cannot be addressed by GoI. This is a larger issue and needs lot of constitutional changes before TriDevalaya can be achieved in this path.

That doesn't mean TriDevalaya project need to wait till that time. I this RSS is right in delinking the TriDevalaya project from the current socio-political projects. One need not wait for the other to happen and can go in parallel.

TriDevalaya project needs to have and to some extent already have separate thought leadership. This change has to come from social engineering of India to become Bharat.

Even in case of a simple majority for NM, one cannot assume BJP got the national mandate to execute TriDevalaya project outright. The mandate will be to provide good governance and rule of law. A BJP with its own majority, however can definitely start project to implement Bharatiya aspects of current constitution.

Only an absolute majority, 370+ MPs, can be taken as a national mandate to start TriDevalaya project by Bhajaapavadis.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Oct 2013 20:49

subhamoy.das wrote:I have a feeling that he may have arrived at the scene 10 years late. At 62 he is already a senior citizen and him drinking glass of water frequently may not go down well on the electorate like AVB walking with support.

Those who advocate healthy living, advise one to drink lots of water! He is only ahead of the curve!

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 19 Oct 2013 20:51

vivek.rao wrote: May be MMS should cut a deal with Modi and share the info on DIEnasty wrong doings. He will be better off with NDA than UPA3

That would be some plot for a thriller:

1.) MMS calls up montek and asks him to make a deal for him.

2.) Montek calls Amit Shah from MMS' office and makes a proposal. (MMS office since IB can't tap from their)

3.) Amit Shah flies to meet Modi and they discuss the finer points of deal. Montek and Amit talk again and deal is stuck.

4.) Montek meets Amit Shah and hands of few hard disks and pen drives, containing termite queen and shahzada's audio + video conversations. Documents against their inner circle ahmed patel, salman khurshid, ambika soni etc. plus media pramukhs like rajdeep, jain of timesnow, ndtv.

Would be fun how Amit Shah and Modi will make use of all this.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Oct 2013 20:57

When people talk about wave or lack of wave, what exactly are they talking about? It is not like everyone you meet is going to be gushing and going gaga over Modi, or any other political leader. People have lives to live and they are not going to be talking politics all day long. In my small sample data, definitely people have lost respect for MMS. The key, probably Modi team realizes is the final voting. If these meetings are evidence for their organisational skills, one hopes they similar skills during the election days to bring voters to the booth.

Be any elections across the World, the party cadres have to be energized by their party/leaders. Only when they believe in something, would they be able to pull in others for the votes. It is like the proverbial Sales Man believing in the product that he is selling. If the sales man does not like the product, he is not going to push it hard. After the fiasco of 2009, if one believes the report from sympathetic Modi articles, it does look like the cadres are energized. I am not talking about die-hard supporters who will support their leaders under all circumstances.

INC is very good at winning elections, and it is not going to be a cake walk for Modi. The ablest party wins the elections. Will Modi win? Such questions and predictions are premature because it is still campaign days. Modi has to break glass ceilings, create images, inspire and provide hope to people. Once elections are announced, his team will, hopefully, get into the logistics of getting voters to the booth.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 19 Oct 2013 20:58

MMS office is probably tapped big time these days,

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 19 Oct 2013 21:00

disha · Post by **disha** » 19 Oct 2013 21:18

Another example of CongIs and their base instincts.

Even circus shows fetch good crowd: Congress on Narendra Modi rallies

Saturday, Oct 19, 2013, 20:22 IST | Place: New Delhi | Agency: PTI
Attacking UPA government's foreign policy as "a mockery" and Delhi-centric, Modi had yesterday advocated an assertive foreign policy that also involves states.

Renuka Chowdhury

Launching a blistering {blistering? this is nothing but gali-galoch from CongIs} attack on Narendra Modi, Congress compared his rallies with circus shows "which also fetch crowd" and questioned his understanding of foreign affairs.

"Do not measure one's strength from one's obesity. Famous filmstar Raj Kumar had once said that a lot clapping is made and a large crowd gathers even when some circus comes in the town," party spokesperson Renuka Chowdhary told reporters here. {Is this your blistering attack Renuka? And from a person who is non-existential outside of bedrooms of well connected people}

Ridiculing Modi for his yesterday's assertions in Chennai on foreign policy issues, Chowdhary said that it was "very very bizarre" and that the Gujarat Chief Minister has "no idea of foreign policy, has no clue. {We would like to hear about foreign policy ideas from Sonia, Priyanka and Rahul ... and in a public speeches across the country}

"He will come out in a Rambo style and shoot at everyone. That does not happen in foreign policy,"[\b] she said. {Why could not she say bombama style?}

Attacking UPA government's foreign policy as "a mockery" and Delhi-centric, Modi had yesterday advocated an assertive foreign policy that also involves states.

"India is not just Delhi. The foreign policy should be decided by the people and not by some politicians sitting in Delhi," he had said.

"Isn't there a role for the states?" Modi said adding international conferences could be held in other cities, like it was during NDA rule when Pakistan's political leadership was hosted in Agra and Shimla for talks.

The Congress spokesperson also hit out at the Gujarat Chief Minister for his attack on Rahul Gandhi today in a rally in Kanpur saying "none of the family members of Modi are seen with him. Modi's family is not with him and he does not understand the dignity of other's family. He is only focused on the chair of Prime Minister."

Noting that one cannot become Prime Minister only by making speeches daily, she said, "in a few days, people will come to know that what is the real face of Modi and who reads prepared speeches in rallies."

Downplaying questions about gatherings in Modi's rallies she said Congress is used to huge gatherings and had leaders, who captured people's imagination.[\b]

The above was published by PTI - http://www.ptinews.com/., do not have the direct link now.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Oct 2013 21:20

2016AD: Please revive us.

disha · Post by **disha** » 19 Oct 2013 21:49

Fanne'ji, if you have been following Modi's speeches for long - you will find it jaded. There is a reason, you have heard him many times over at many different fora. Also you are used to seeing his picture in the TV and more importantly for you, elections is just a formality where you will go ahead and press the button. You have access to information, infact yours is a case of "information overloading". Many a times if you find yourself ahead of news than others - do not get surprised!

That is not the case of millions of people across India. They want to see and feel a person. It is like a building contractor needs to see and touch something to get ideas while a software engineer is comfortable in abstracts, not all desis are software engineers

- they need to see, hear, feel before they decide.

Now think about why did the Jaunpur gold digging situation happened so suddenly? Why the media went after the "gold digging"? Did they try to puncture the Kanpur rally balloon by riveting people onto something else? Something to ponder about.

In the meantime, here is another firstpost article to analyse {url} at bottom:

Kanpur rally: Is Modi a hoax or is he for real? The doubt lingers

by Akshaya Mishra Oct 19, 2013 #BJP #Centre #Chindia #Congress #ConnectTheDots #India #Kanpur #Lok Sabha elections 2014 #Modi Kanpur rally #Narendra Modi #Rahul Gandhi #Uttar Pradesh 1000 166 CommentsEmailPrint

{Right out of the gate, the article starts putting FUD - Fear, Uncertainity & Disaster., but look at the number of comments and emails - 166 comments currently - that is immense traffic. Firstpost is minting money. At this stage they have earned by my own calculations some USD 500 in ad revenues - not bad for punching out some inane article}

Hate him for his past, be suspicious of forces driving his present and be wary what he means for the country’s future, but give it to Narendra Modi, whenever he speaks he makes all those concerns irrelevant. He holds you in thrall with the ease of a consummate showman and makes you, at least till the show is on, believe him. That was the case in Kanpur too. It made you realise if speeches made leaders, then Modi would easily be the tallest leader in the country. But a leader is much more than oratorical flourish {Oratorical flourish is not easy. It comes when one understands a problem, analyses it and puts it back in their own words. It shows that the person understands the issue. It is not just movie dialogue delivery from a pre-written script}.

Probably no one understands it better than Modi himself. Being a smart politician, he also realises showmanship without substance is a vacuous exercise. In Kanpur, he tried to bring in content to his speech, like he has been doing everywhere, to appear different. However — however is a word that would always dog Modi — he failed to make an impact. The speeches surely are getting a bit jaded. He complains too much, but offers no real solution to anything. Can he stand up and declare — without talking through insinuations, which he has been doing so far — that he believes in India as it is? Modi has the obvious advantage. He is an opposition leader and the current media favourite, so he can launch no-holds-barred attacks on the government and the Congress that heads it, and get away with it. But he was supposed to be a leader with great ideas. Where are these ideas? At Kanpur, he railed against the secularism of the Congress. {Now the article writer is going insane, cannot analyse insanity and still be sane!} “I believe Hindus should become good Hindus, Muslims good Muslims, Sikhs good Sikhs… this will build a good India,” he said. You are tempted to believe, despite 2002 and despite those hate speeches after the riots in Gujarat, that he is a nice man who means good. But why haven’t we heard a word from him about the organisation that has promoted him to where he is? This is the organisation that certainly does not believe in allowing Muslims to be good Muslims or other minorities to be good minorities. Is Modi he fooling everybody around? If Modi is as good as his speeches are, he would be perfectly acceptable as a leader. His youth-speak is alright, so is his approach to secularism, as are his views on the economy, but can we separate him from the Sangh Parivar that backs him? That is where the entire Modi dilemma lies for the lay citizen. If he gets respite from communalism, other things would fall in place. Would he be courageous enough to announce that he does not believe in the Sangh’s version of India? Fat chance. He has been timid on this all along. ‘India First’ is a good idea, for the ears at least, though one must admit it is nothing beyond being a catchy slogan. If by ‘India First’ he means the idea of India that should precede all other considerations, it is great. But what idea of India it is? A majoritarian country where minorities must be shown their place? Modi may not believe in this India — at least that is what his speeches suggest — but has he been bold enough to assert himself in this respect. No. That is why it is difficult to believe Modi. The good thing about Modi is he trying to connect with all the constituencies ignored by the Congress and all other parties. Rahul Gandhi, for all the decibels in his speeches, still does not talk about the aspirations of the youth or about jobs and employment — in fact, no other leader or party does. Modi talks young despite his age. In all secular topics there is hardly anything to to fault him — you might not agree with his views on the economy but still it is a neutral subject open to debate — but his credibility depends on how he approaches the question of minorities and political Hindutva. Can he stand up and declare — without talking through insinuations, which he has been doing so far — that he believes in India as it is? That brings in another related question: can he extricate himself from the extreme ideological elements that identify with him?

Read more [JUNK] at: http://www.firstpost.com/politics/kanpu ... ef_article

disha · Post by **disha** » 19 Oct 2013 22:05

From live commentary on first post ...

16.30: The Congress broke us, we will join everyone The “divisive mindset of the Congress” comes in for sharp criticism. ”Everywhere they went, they have created cleavages – first the country, then classes, castes, society, they have only broken us. We need a politics that merges, brings people together.” Modi ends his speech with a promise to the people who have gathered — “I will return the love you have shown me, many times over.” 16:25: Governments have only one religion – India First Much has been said about the softening of Modi’s hardline Hindutva image. He speaks at some length about the hollowness of secularism as it is practised by the Congress, calling it a tool the Congress falls back on in the absence of any concrete work. “I beliieve Hindus should become good Hindus, Muslims good Muslims, Sikhs good Sikhs… this will build a good India,” he says. The BJP dares to seek votes on issues of development alone, Modi says. Governments should have only one religion, that of putting the country first. “India First”. A BJP government can offer equal access to development for all, he says. 16.23: Food Security Act or Hunger Perpetuation Act? The theme of poverty and hunger continues. Governments should be for the poor, Modi says. A government that is a purchasable commodity for the rich is of little use. In perhaps his sharpest criticism of the Food Security Act till date, he then goes on to call it a law to keep people hungry. “The government of proposing to give adults even less rations than children get through the mid-day meal scheme,” he charges. 16.20: ”The government says the files are missing, I say the government is missing.” It’s time to hit out at the Congress government, Rahul Gandhi and the UPA. A bureaucrat accused by the government’s top investigating agency says if he’s being accused in an FIR then the prime minister too should be made an accused, he says. After more on the coal scam and the ensuing embarrassment to the government, he then takes potshots at Rahul’s “Poverty is a state of the mind” statement. Those who have experienced poverty We have been born in poverty. We have lived poverty. We have experienced their pain.”

16.15: Government’s accountability to the people a key to governance, he says Modi is now speaking about accountability of governments. He gave a complete account of what his state government has accomplished in December 2012, he says. The 2014 elections are to the Lok Sabha. INstead of giving the people of India a report of work done, they are pointing to Gujarat and Modi, but elections in Gujarat took place in 2012, and he passed “with distinction”, he points out. 16.10: The state government of UP, its law and order situation are next targets The theme till now was a ‘Congress Mukt Bharat’, for which the clarion call must go up from UP, he said. Now he turns next to the state government — the Samajwadi Party that props up the UPA from outside and whose allegiance to the Congress is easily won. Over 5,000 innocent people have died in the past two years in riots, Modi says. In fact, Modi adds, if you remove six years of Atal Behari Vajpayee’s rule, then this state has seen nothing but decay. “When a UP youngster travel by train in UP, his parents keep calling him to ask about his security and safety. The son keeps assuaging her fears. When the son says the train has entered Gujarat, that’s when his mother finally sleeps in peace.”

16.00: ”The Congress has failed you, but won’t admit it” Modi is now speaking of failed promises — inflation was to have been brought down in 100 days. “Did the PM or Sonia ever express regret for not being able to do so? Has her sahebzaada spoken on it?” He says the Congress party’s arrogance will be its undoing. This strikes a chord — prices, inflation, unkept promises, a party that does not care for the voice of the millions, clearly the lakhs in the audience are liking what they’re hearing.

15.55: “I’m seeing a wave of love everywhere.” Modi at his crowd-winning best: “Do you want your children to live the same life of struggle? Do you want to secure a bright future for them? Then make a resolution today, to not permit those who destroyed you to destroy your children’s lives.” Lakhs of people are on their feet. He has already promised to ensure that the effort each one of them has put in by waiting in the sun for hours will not be wasted. “I’m seeing this wave of love in every corner of the country. And alongside, the Congress party that has destroyed the country is facing the people’s anger everywhere,” he says.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/politics/kanpu ... ef_article

Santosh · Post by **Santosh** » 19 Oct 2013 22:11

Atri wrote:mms should delay elections as much as possible.. become the ghatotkacha that india desperately wants.. certain sections of desh-bhakts will fondly remember him for this..

Bhy Atri ji? Wouldn't the wave also wane with time?

disha · Post by **disha** » 19 Oct 2013 22:15

From niticentral article on Renuka's press conference:

Goes back to pre-independence laurels

Again, lacking talking points on the Congress’s performance of the last 60 years, Renuka Chowdhary was reduced to harping on the fact that the Congress got the country independence and it’s impossible to dream of a “Congress mukt Bharat”. The legendary NT Rama Rao, who introduced her to politics on an anti-Congress agenda, must be turning in his grave.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Oct 2013 22:18

>> I beliieve Hindus should become good Hindus, Muslims good Muslims, Sikhs good Sikhs… this will build a good India,” he says.

this is almost word to word what swami vivekananda said.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Oct 2013 22:32

I did not realize Cho was there at Chennai, and spoke a few words before Arun and Modi. I need to listen to it. Swinging back to the State's role in foreign relations. I listened to parts of the speech again. Here are some key words/ideas (some of them are direct quotes):

state ki takat badthi hain
30 vote tho pakke ho gaye
capacity building
bureaucracy exposure
world is forced to come to us
what we can give.
buddhist teachers and hindu priests
World gets attracted towards us
strong economy effective driver of foreign policy
civilization/traditional/legacy experience of trading - chola sailors and gujarati traders
strong economy effective driver of foreign policy
culture and language

The narrative is just not of economic growth. In fact economic growth is not the primary target. His vision is more from a strategic perspective. When he stressed that 30 states "take care" of 30 countries (look carefully at his hands and how he brings them together); he is really looking at the strategic benefits and role for the country.

Some of his subtle ideas about culture, language, buddhist teachers and hindu priests shows his grasp of the past sway India held over Asia, and how he is keen to position India back into that role. It is beyond economics and progress for the people.

He is wise to understand and articulate, that unless India has something to give, the World will not respect/need India. He has ideas for what India can do in that front. And he sees States role in that. Maybe, because he is not at Dilli, he is so against Dilli and might change later on. But, for now, he sees the centralized functioning of the government as not being effective. He sees ONE External Affairs ministry as a bottleneck, and finds the States are stifled. He uses historical evidences, which none can refute, to show how States can be useful.

Imagine Karnataka partnering with Srilanka, in his plan there would be 500 Sinhalese teachers and experts. I add experts here, because in his other speeches, he has brought attention to the fact that other countries, utilize University and scholars studying foreign countries while forming foreign policies. Tamil Nadu paris with Nepal. Uttar Pradesh partners with Ukraine. Maharastra partners with China. Odisha partners with Romania. Rajasthan with Mongolia. Andhra Pradesh with Kenya. Kerala with Germany. Haryana with France. West Bengal with Brazil. Etc etc.

He has not called for any unchecked or unsupervised partnership. It is reasonable to expect all relations would go through the due diligence and scrutiny expected from foreign relations and protocols. So, the central External Affairs and foreign ministries would be still oversee them. But the States will be given some opportunities to connect and channel trade and cultural exchanges.

His other words indicate the exposure and strength States obtain. Capacity building is a key phrase. In his other speeches he uses "skills development" and 3 more key words "Speed, Scale and Skills". Putting it all together, the vision is for each State to be an engine of growth - not just dependent on each other or the Center. But operating at global level. The Center becomes an enabler rather than be an obstacle or perform the central planning and control.

This decentralization has benefits. BRF and scholars have discussed how Hinduism and India has never been fully conquered because of the decentralization and no central brain to attack and fell. True 30 States with more power and benefits will become an effort to manage. But Security and Military would be at the Center level. However, there will not be a single group of politicians sitting in Dilli controlling the fate of the country or putting the country at danger - economic, cultural and military.

Any military adventure against the country, will see 30 countries supporting

He perfectly understands the "give and take" way of World. His focus is pushing back India into a global role and prosperity.

When was the last time MMS spoke like this?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 19 Oct 2013 22:47

The entire corrupt architecture of this country wont go so easily. They have tentacles in all parties. It will be interesting to see how Modi maneuvered behind the scenes to keep them at bay and stay alive if he becomes PM. Modi is truly a visionary and has demonstrated the ability to get the job done. I loved his country adoption by state idea and interlinking the neighborhood within an economic framework. This will give us the ability to expand our soft and hard power influence through the backdoor.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Oct 2013 22:50

RajeshA wrote:
Rudradev wrote:Arrived in Mumbai about ten days ago. Seriously, per my observation there is no "Modi wave" here. Everybody talks about Modi as a news item of interest, but of all the 50-odd people I've so far had relevant conversations with, maybe 6 are enthusiastic supporters of Modi who were actually eager to go out and vote for him.
1) I guess Mumbaikars who feel they live in the City of Dreams of India where the system still works, would not be so enthusiastic about some outsider.

I don't know if you have been to Mumbai, but I don't think there is anyone here who would say in general that the system "works"! Yes, some things (like electricity supply) work better than in many parts of the country, but there is a lot that's dysfunctional and people have a lot to complain about. Besides, I've asked many people from different strata of society, who don't have a uniform view of how well the system works... and this is the overall result. Lots of "buzz" around Modi but there's been almost no "sale" that he is the man to vote for.

I don't think the "outsider" argument applies to Mumbai either. In Delhi, perhaps, Modi would be regarded as an outsider while the establishment C-system people are insiders. To Mumbai they are all outsiders. If anything, Modi is a more familiar "type" because the people here are used to plain-speaking Gujaratis more than to the Lutyen's Delhi Pappi-Jhappi types.

2) Till now, Modi has mostly had talks with the moneyed elite in Mumbai. That would come in handy later on. He has not held any rallies there, he hasn't started campaigning there.

This is true. He addressed the diamond merchants, who are largely Gujarati and part of his core votebase anyway. Still, Modi has only 200-odd days left (at the most) before the election, and he cannot campaign/rally everywhere in that much time. If the reaction in Mumbai is typical of all the places where he will be unable to campaign/rally before the election, then he isn't going to get the votes he needs.

3) If what I am hearing is correct, that MNS is on board, BJP giving 4 of their seats to RT from their quota, then it could mean the Shiv Sena and MNS would be doing the heavy lifting in MH. A TsuNaMo would not be needed there.

I hope the SS/MNS work it out with Modi. However, there is NO TsuNaMo. I was expecting something very different when I landed in India, from all the reports on BRF, Twitter and elsewhere... I thought people by and large seriously perceived Modi as an agent of change, and welcomed that with open arms. This is not the case. Publicity has reached far and wide, but conviction to vote for him definitely has not.

I think the problem is that the Congress' "Feku" counter-campaign has really gone a long way towards presenting Modi as someone who makes tall claims about development. So many people, not necessarily Congis or leftists, brought up the "malnutrition in Gujarat" argument when discussing his governance qualities. The problem is that there has been no short, crisp, solidly supported message to firmly rebut and discredit the "malnutrition in Gujarat" myth. One thing though, almost nobody I talked to (except a few known lefties) brought up 2002, "Hindu fundamentalist" or anything like that. They are simply not convinced that Modi isn't just a "Feku".

4) There is still time for the Modi wave to build up - almost 8 months.

One can hope, but hope alone isn't enough.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Oct 2013 22:55

ramana wrote:RD wrote:

...People constantly living in a place naturally gravitate to other people whose opinions would be more similar to their own, over time; and people tend to tell an individual what they think (know) the individual would want to hear, so if they know someone as a Modi supporter they will tend to sound more enthusiastic about Modi than they really are. In my case, nobody I talk to knows my background or preferences-- so it's a truly random sample.
Recall your debates with the another member about herd mentality among herd of wild animals which have random placement but once a certain number finds the grazing the whole herd converges?
I recall faintly the number was about 15% to lead to herd convergence.

That is a good point. In fact, if people tend to voice pro-Modi opinions around you just because they think you want to hear them... then at least some of those people, by osmosis, will *become* pro-Modi (especially if they were undecided in the first place) just by hearing the sound of those opinions articulated in their own voices! Thus it is "nuclei" of opinion that are important. Person A is openly and strongly pro-Modi; therefore his friend Person B, his neighbour Person C, his employee Person D tend to adopt a pro-Modi or at least Modi-neutral stance in political conversations with Person A. At least some of {B,C,D} in that process will tend to become pro-Modi... and a chain reaction will commence. It needs time to build though.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 19 Oct 2013 22:57

We on the internet under estimate the power of the MSM.
rudra's words about algos. The AAP Trojan
Uphill battle to fight feku campaign

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 19 Oct 2013 23:00

Rahul M wrote:>> I beliieve Hindus should become good Hindus, Muslims good Muslims, Sikhs good Sikhs… this will build a good India,” he says.

this is almost word to word what swami vivekananda said.

There is still a lot of debate on what "good Muslim" means. The Wahhabis and Talibs are probably closest to what their book says.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Oct 2013 23:09

Congi use all the dirty tactics inc EVM and again India gets the Government made of 28% Indians 72% half and full Firangis, then the great manipulater/s have laid down the firm foundation for color revolution in 2014, hopefully Bhagwa Rang. Congis will be stupid if they think they can afford and save themselves from RaktNiti and wont be treated like unwanted Atithi in India .

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 19 Oct 2013 23:14

I am surprised that no well known non-political figure has come out guns blazing for NaMo. If they have, it might be worth collating their statements with the dates as a means to persuade. Even Kiran Bedi has to quote someone else

"(Because @narendramodi connects directly)@ZeeNews: Narendra Modi is an inspiration for youth: Mukesh Ambani".

If NaMos "star" supporters have the balls, they should be willing to make explicit, unambiguous statements. They need not join any party. But this is the least they can do (what Baba Ramdev had done earlier). Opinion leaders lead, the herd follow. So people like Kiran Bedi should be encouraged to make clear statements, not wishy-washy stuff quoting Mukesh Ambani blah. The less said about our cinema or sports stars, the better.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 19 Oct 2013 23:16

Got an email from my dad and he didn't seem very gung ho about NaMo. I wonder why. Do we get a different view of things in the US? I would expect that they are fed up in India and want change.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Oct 2013 23:32

KJoishy, yes they want change, but NOT ENOUGH people are convinced that NaMo is the man who can/will deliver it. MSM and Cong campaigns to present him as a "Feku" have been more effective at creating doubt/skepticism than we would like to admit. Ishrat Jahan and 2002 campaigns haven't shown many results (except perhaps among Muslims and far left) but the Feku allegations have prevented the center from committing themselves wholly to Modi.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 19 Oct 2013 23:36

Rudradev wrote: MSM and Cong campaigns to present him as a "Feku" have been more effective than we would like to admit, in creating doubts.

Can you provide any evidence other than anecdotal ? This does not gel with anything I have come across.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Oct 2013 23:43

Arjun wrote:
Rudradev wrote: MSM and Cong campaigns to present him as a "Feku" have been more effective than we would like to admit, in creating doubts.
Can you provide any evidence other than anecdotal ? This does not gel with anything I have come across.

What have you come across on this subject that isn't anecdotal? Certainly there have been no case-controlled studies, observational, prospective or otherwise, regarding the effects of various media campaigns on the voter perception of 2014 Indian election candidates.

My first-hand experience is that most people... a large majority that I have talked to, and who do NOT know me for a pro-Modi person because I am a recent arrival... do not believe that Modi has the capacity to deliver the calibre of governance his speeches promise.

Now all the hard evidence being in Modi's favour... most notably being re-elected four times in a state where he HAS provided development... isn't enough to convince people. So what exactly deters them? I can only conclude that it is the Feku campaign.