Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Jun 2013 22:09

Akhilesh Misra is saying something similar to what I said "The Lost Decade" of India. INC + BJP together should share the blame. INC for its actions, BJP for its inaction.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Jun 2013 22:11

SwamyG wrote:Akhilesh Misra is saying something similar to what I said "The Lost Decade" of India. INC + BJP together should share the blame. INC for its actions, BJP for its inaction.

The blame is on all those who thought man mohan was good. In democracy the praja is raja.

BJP tried, Indians let themselves down.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 17 Jun 2013 22:12

Kulkarni is merely a pin from LKA's soosai belt.. to be thrown away, once job is done..

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 17 Jun 2013 22:16

The entire article smartly skips a point that Modi will be here to take part in Amrut Mahotsav of Nritya Gopal Dasji

Narendra Modi to visit Ayodhya, pray at Ram Jnama Bhoomi site

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... mesofindia

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Jun 2013 22:17

Amol.D wrote:Sharad Yadav : Will consider return to NDA if Advani is at the helm
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/will- ... 130617.htm

This is getting curiouser and curioser... to quote Alice in wonderland. The secular flag holders prefer the architect of ram janmabhumi to lead them

Yes it is funny, however Sharad Yadav's statement was not that clearcut -- some of the consideration is done by NDTV reported faithfully by rediff.

what he said was pretty tepid

20:11 Will consider return to NDA if Advani helms it: Sharad Yadav: NDTV reports: A day after his party, the Janata Dal-United ended a 17-year alliance with the Bharatiya Janata Party, party president Sharad Yadav listed the terms for a possible reconciliation.

"We will see what happens if Advani returns to the central role," Yadav said.

Nitish has said that the alliance was disturbed by central BJP leaders even in 2010, and now things have reached breaking point -- I think the drama aside, the alliance is actually breaking on seat sharing numbers.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 17 Jun 2013 22:17

Sanku wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Akhilesh Misra is saying something similar to what I said "The Lost Decade" of India. INC + BJP together should share the blame. INC for its actions, BJP for its inaction.
The blame is on all those who thought man mohan was good. In democracy the praja is raja.

BJP tried, Indians let themselves down.

Well said SankuJi

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 17 Jun 2013 22:20

SwamyG wrote:. INC + BJP together should share the blame. INC for its actions, BJP for its inaction.

INC for its inaction and BJP for limited action.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 17 Jun 2013 22:21

SwamyG,

NK feels he was kicked out.
And how does any of this add a single vote?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Jun 2013 22:23

Theo_Fidel wrote:SwamyG,

NK feels he was kicked out.
And how does any of this add a single vote?

How do you know what NK feels ? And seems to be pretty confident too, the way you seem to vouch for him.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Jun 2013 22:24

A good article by Sandhya Jain on Advani: http://www.niticentral.com/2013/06/17/a ... 90970.html

Anyway, Advani clearly believed the Prime Minister’s office rightly belonged to him, and his restlessness prompted retired Sarsanghachalak Rajinder Singh to ask Vajpayee to step down in 2002. Now Advani wants Modi to fashion an electoral victory and give the plum post to him.

But there is no comparison between Advani and Modi. The Rama Janmabhoomi movement was a decision of the Sangh Parivar, first mooted at Palampur during the presidentship of Murli Manohar Joshi. Advani was asked to lead the movement, but he was not its architect. That is why RSS could decide who would be coronated when BJP came to power on the strength of popularity built up via the movement.

And this is how she ends the article:

Footnote: Realising that he was nearing his end, former RAW chief and strategic expert B Raman tweeted his testament to the nation on May 22: I decided to back NaMo becoz he is only leader with the required lucidity in thinking, razor-sharp focus on issues & ability to prioritise.

This is possibly the best summation of the nation’s political landscape — a light in the tunnel ahead.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 17 Jun 2013 22:28

Sanku,

Read the interview posted earlier.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Jun 2013 22:30

Theo_Fidel wrote:Sanku,

Read the interview posted earlier.

I believe we had ALL read his interview, that does not document what he feels only what he said. Surely the difference is not lost on you?

What did you expect him to say? "I am a worthless little two timing traitor who lets down the friends who made him CM because they would not dance to his tunes"

You still have to substantiate your statement.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Jun 2013 22:32

Theo_Fidel wrote:SwamyG,

NK feels he was kicked out.
And how does any of this add a single vote?

Between you and me, I like BJP to go it alone and do its best. If BJP will not support Modi, then Modi should go alone. All charges/allegations on Modi have found to be baseless. So baring any last moment surprises, I see Modi as an inspirational leader. Sure, he is a politician with the usual flaws of a politician, and he is opportunistic. I hope he has inspired other leaders and aam admi. It has made INC recognize him for what he is, and they are in changes too. All in all, good for the country.

So even if projecting Modi will not get BJP one vote, I think it is the right thing to do. As party BJP would have done its part in reshaping the country. As a politician Modi is creating the vision and road map. He is not perfect, and probably not the best. There might be faster runners than Usain Bolt. But Usain is the one who participates in the race. Right now, it is Modi. If there are better people, can you spell them out?

Be it super heroes, mythological heroes, or movie.....people rally around good leaders and look up to individuals with extra-ordinary feats/vision/capabilities. In one swoop, they are happy and sad. Like in the movie "The Incredibles", people have lost trust in super-heroes (politicians). And we need some one who can create the system which will make people happy.

Like Abhimanyu tried, so will Modi. Success or failure are temporary. In the long term, people's welfare is important. Votes, parties and Modi do not matter.

ps: So what do you think about the sanitation and girl student numbers in Gujarat?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Jun 2013 22:33

Sanku wrote:BJP tried, Indians let themselves down.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Jun 2013 22:34

SwamyG wrote:
Sanku wrote:BJP tried, Indians let themselves down.

You are reduced to trolling SwamyG? Not as per your standards, if you do not have time to fully flesh out your thoughts, do not post.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 17 Jun 2013 22:43

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 17 Jun 2013 22:44

ROFL!!!

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Jun 2013 22:46

Sanku ji: In this matter, your posts do not deserve it. You keep telling us you are preparing a lavish feast for us in your house, and that you will invite us all.......there is no fragrance of food being cooked, nor do we see anybody cooking in the kitchen, yet you want us to keep believing you will suddenly have this divinely meal for us. Kya karae, samay samay par ham bhi toda bahut standards se gir jatae hain onlee. So sorry for trolling, will not do it again with you on this particular topic

. But let it be known you are asking us to believe, and it is nothing about analysis or connecting the dots. The line of argument you are carrying is where you will give credit to Advani for whatever happens. Even if it rains. Anyways...sorry onlee for laughing at your theories.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Jun 2013 23:04

Asif Ibrahim as IB chief A political move that came to haunt the Congres.pdf

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 17 Jun 2013 23:22

chetak wrote:Asif Ibrahim as IB chief A political move that came to haunt the Congres.pdf

Some one said he is playing the role what Ibrahim Gardi played during 1761 third war of Panipat.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Jun 2013 23:30

SwamyG wrote:Sanku ji: In this matter, your posts do not deserve it. .

So basically not only are you wrong, you will try and hide the it by generally misbehaving? Well good luck with that.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Jun 2013 23:37

Arjun:
One more knock on the right-left dialog. http://www.firstpost.com/blogs/3-indias ... 76705.html

Bharat is the term that refers to traditional India. Whether one thinks of pre-colonial Indian native society as good or bad, there is no doubt that such a society has survived for a very long time, and that many pockets of India still live in traditional lifestyles deeper than mere symbolism and ornamentalism. Today, Bharat has been invaded by both Sensex India and Maoist India, albeit using different reasons and different methods. The Sensex Indians are following imported right-wing capitalist models that are said to have emerged from the Protestant Ethic in the West, and they are frantically “developing” the civilisation of Bharat by westernising it. The Maoist Indians are following imported left-wing models to redress their grievances. Each attacks Bharat with its own imported theories, and each offers its own kind of promise for a better society. The important thing is that both are foreign nexuses based ideologies, and both are tearing Bharat apart. I predict that neither Sensex India nor Maoist India will score an absolute victory, but that this war will break up India sooner than most Indians are willing to admit.

What I propose is a healthy integration of Bharat and Sensex India to take us forward, with lessons learned from the Maoists brought in as well. The exact nature of this confluence would require innovative thinking. Frankly, the political leaders who claim to speak for Bharat have just not had adequate vision; they are too obsessed with immediate politics that is inherently reactive and short sighted. Some persons I speak to anticipate that Narendra Modi will come to power and fix everything. It is true that he has shown interest and support for both Bharat and Sensex India, and might be a good leader to integrate these. But the task at hand is far more challenging than any one man could be expected to achieve, regardless of which among the potential candidates comes to power. It demands an intellectual climate that needs to be created in India.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 18 Jun 2013 00:00

Modi will be praying at disputed site in Ayodhya. Big development if you ask me. He is bringing together hindutva and non-hindutva types under one umbrella and further solidifying his position within the party. With Nitish out of the picture he will have more mobility in UP to capture Hindu vote.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 18 Jun 2013 00:09

RoyG wrote:Modi will be praying at disputed site in Ayodhya. Big development if you ask me. He is bringing together hindutva and non-hindutva types under one umbrella and further solidifying his position within the party. With Nitish out of the picture he will have more mobility in UP to capture Hindu vote.

Media spin at best

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 18 Jun 2013 00:13

Disputed by secularists site only

apoorv · Post by **apoorv** » 18 Jun 2013 00:15

Modi will meet Advani tomorrow. Any idea what will be discussed?

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 18 Jun 2013 00:21

apoorv wrote:Modi will meet Advani tomorrow. Any idea what will be discussed?

He is going to tell old hack bluntly to step out of his way or he will have BJP karyakartas in ayodhya burn his effigy publicly.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 18 Jun 2013 00:26

SwamyG wrote:ps: So what do you think about the sanitation and girl student numbers in Gujarat?

One hopes that in its quest for purity the BJP does not forget what politics is about.
Personally this quest for purity makes me uncomfortable.

Also was trying to avoid getting into a GJ numbers issue. You know my position on it after going through it extensively.

Sanitation & Girl students. Sanitation, good start but data does not back up the extreme claims. For instance infectious disease numbers are in the middling range. Female literacy, remains a laggard, per census 2011, @ 63.31 only a smidge above Odisha, Punjab and Assam.

Fully back the latest program to drag every girl child if necessary into school. My one criticism would be that it seems very top down, simplistic and makes mistakes on the dynamics of what is keeping girls out of school. The problem consistently has been the status of the girl child. All the way from, leaves family, dowry cost, family name, needed for house work, early marriage, early pregnancy, poor nutrition, low work participation, etc. The data indicates that female sex ratio in GJ is very low and surprisingly getting lower. This tells me that the status of the girl child has not changed. All this /Government officer monitoring is not going to change that dynamic. You can see what happened in Haryana or Punjab where education & prosperity without social reform has created a female infanticide crisis. These are complex issues that refuse to be solved with simplistic solutions.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jun 2013 00:54

Faking News: Animals in Bihar demand Fodder Security Bill in case Lalu returns to power

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jun 2013 01:02

So now NDA is: BJP, SS, and SAD.

In essence its BJP+ with the exit of JD(U).

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Jun 2013 01:11

muraliravi wrote:
apoorv wrote:Modi will meet Advani tomorrow. Any idea what will be discussed?
He is going to tell old hack bluntly to step out of his way or he will have BJP karyakartas in ayodhya burn his effigy publicly.

naah.. he will just fall at his feet, and take blessings for taking the collaborative leadership approach, while modi will fasten his CEO belt.

If I were a capitalistic visionary, I would do that.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 18 Jun 2013 01:13

ramana wrote:So now NDA is: BJP, SS, and SAD.

In essence its BJP+ with the exit of JD(U).

AGP, HJC, NPF also

Ashok Sarraff · Post by **Ashok Sarraff** » 18 Jun 2013 01:21

It would be a major hiccup if (1) RJD, JDU, and Congress unite against BJP given that they possibly hate Modi more than they hate each other; and (2) if MNS does not come on board. 1 and 2 together would amount to a loss of about 20 seats for NDA if not more.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 18 Jun 2013 01:22

Congress-BJP: battle for the Sardar legacy

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bu ... o-featured

1) Mugalistan Dreamer Ashraf Joya Hasan says Sardar Patel didn't have right attitude towards Muslims (In other words he was communal).

2) Shashi Tharoor with his fake brit accent states Modi can't appropriate Sardar legacy as long as he doesn't submit to the standards of dhimmitude set by Nehruji and others. He uses "Nehruji" while for Sardar just Patel.

3) Soosai belt RDX/pin says, although Modi has named it as "statue of unity" as an aspirant for secular legacy of Sardar but it he will have to claim it through his actions, this building of statue is not that action.

4) Must listen what Nirmala Sitaraman says around 13:44. How leftists dynasty slaves have demonized the nationlists in freedom movement and appropriated the whole national freedom movement for dynasty.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 18 Jun 2013 01:33

Ashok Sarraff wrote:It would be a major hiccup if (1) RJD, JDU, and Congress unite against BJP given that they possibly hate Modi more than they hate each other; and (2) if MNS does not come on board. 1 and 2 together would amount to a loss of about 20 seats for NDA if not more.

But central BJP not being under control of Windbag/D4 may throw spanner in the plans to dominate cow-belt again like pre 89 days.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 18 Jun 2013 01:33

Sanku wrote: There are no videos of his own making Muppalla ji.

What I was saying is the media stuff is via videos and hence media cannot cook. He is doing the nonsesne and very clear. Yes to what he is already providing a fodder, media in the from of print is adding fuel.

All is not well with BJP and him. He currently pissed off everyone and there is a lot of cooling that is being attempted only due to the respect to him.

disha · Post by **disha** » 18 Jun 2013 01:37

Theo_Fidel wrote:
SwamyG wrote:ps: So what do you think about the sanitation and girl student numbers in Gujarat?
One hopes that in its quest for purity the BJP does not forget what politics is about.
Personally this quest for purity makes me uncomfortable.

Does it make you uncomfortable because in your mind you have associatede "purity" with "hindoos" who worship weird monkey and elephant gods and commit suttee and are generally regressive but are somehow progressive?

Also was trying to avoid getting into a GJ numbers issue. You know my position on it after going through it extensively.

Why? Because data goes against the biases you hold dear?

Sanitation & Girl students. Sanitation, good start but data does not back up the extreme claims. For instance infectious disease numbers are in the middling range. Female literacy, remains a laggard, per census 2011, @ 63.31 only a smidge above Odisha, Punjab and Assam.

Sanitation is one of the cause and not the only cause. If you are searching for a magic silver bullet., then let us straight away break your search. There is none. Second., the literacy numbers will show up in the 2021 census and not before that., particularly it takes atleast a 10 year cycle for a girl child to go and achieve a middle-school level literacy. Short drives for adult literacy bumps up numbers in a short while but not sustainable. Catch them young. Again., you brought out an important fact., it is "smidge" above the 3 states (Odisha, Punjab and Assam) - but the fact is it is above. Punjab is a richer state compared to Gujarat and had a head start in green revolutions., Gujarat has kutch which is salt marsh and a desert (mostly)., Saurashtra - which is arid and has dangs which is a tribal forested area.

Coming back to state comparison., the populations of Odisha and Assam combined is a smidge above Gujarat. And unlike Gujarat none have an immigration issue like Gujarat (maybe Assam has BD immigration., leave that aside for now). For example., in Surat., the actual native population is at 40%. The rest are immigrants. Get on the train from Hyderabad to Rajkot and you will find gujarati speaking tamilians and telugus. Check out the YMCA center in Ahmedabad and note that there is a malayali from every village of Kerala working in Gujarat.

You sir, do not have a single clue on the challenges in health and education of immigrants. And neither having visited Gujarat., you do not know the level of immigration.

Third, check out the "women empowerment" between Gujarat and your favourite state Kerala. Women empowerment ratios in Kerala is pathetic. All the "HDI" jholawalas should commit harakiri looking at the women empowerment situation in Kerala and before even bringing Gujarat in the debate.

Fourth, culturally an entrepreneur oriented society., education beyond a certain point is given a short shrift. This has to be accounted for in the "HDI models" but is sorely missed., because it takes effort. It is easier to say Kerala has better HDI. My foot.

Fully back the latest program to drag every girl child if necessary into school. My one criticism would be that it seems very top down, simplistic and makes mistakes on the dynamics of what is keeping girls out of school. The problem consistently has been the status of the girl child. All the way from, leaves family, dowry cost, family name, needed for house work, early marriage, early pregnancy, poor nutrition, low work participation, etc. The data indicates that female sex ratio in GJ is very low and surprisingly getting lower. This tells me that the status of the girl child has not changed. All this /Government officer monitoring is not going to change that dynamic. You can see what happened in Haryana or Punjab where education & prosperity without social reform has created a female infanticide crisis. These are complex issues that refuse to be solved with simplistic solutions.

Female sex ratio in GJ is very low and will keep on getting lower.

Female sex ratio (males:females) in Surat: 53:47. I will leave it to you to do the homework on the following cities:

Ahmedabad
Rajkot
Vadodra
Bharuch
Bhavnagar

why I pick Surat? Ahmedabad is the fastest growing city., Surat and Rajkot are comparable and Vadodra comes up behind. All of them are fastest growing city. Bharuch and Bhavnagar have largely internal migrations (as opposed to largely immigration from other states)

Given the above, the male-female ratios get skewed and with immigration the child sex ratios get further skewed. As a case in point., take Unjha - which is not growing as fast as above cities and the sex ratio is not so skewed.

So in your bias, you are taking data selectively and which actually does more harm than good. For example, have you wondered why inspite of such skewed male-female ratios - the violence against women in Guj. is low? If they are not hatta-katta machans like the tamil or mallu male and are soft spoken - then why do people bring in Godhra? Given that argument is out of the door., the only one that one can work with is "women empowerment"., more they are empowered the less likely they will be violated against. Of course better governance and law and order helps., but then they are all tied. Women are empowered only when they feel safer!

And that shows in the statistics for dowry deaths. The trend is downward and for eg. in Dangs, there was no dowry death related case for an entire year! And in India, large number of dowry deaths are reported from BiMaRU states (Bihar, MP, Raj, UP)., and guess what - Guj is surrounded by MP & Raj. And a latest sampler: http://www.dailypioneer.com/sunday-edit ... by-sc.html

So sir (cannot call you otherwise)., when you say:

This tells me that the status of the girl child has not changed.

It tells me that you are using the data subjectively to underline your own bias. Now what you are saying is that the CM taking a girl child to the school is useless because the status of the girl child has not changed. How hypocritical! And why., because immediately you say this:

All this Government officer monitoring is not going to change that dynamic.

Now to your statement ...

You can see what happened in Haryana or Punjab where education & prosperity without social reform has created a female infanticide crisis. These are complex issues that refuse to be solved with simplistic solutions.

Key here is something called "women empowerment"., which takes a generation or two (that is 50 years) to change. It is where in general women feel confident in taking life changing decisions. The higher women empowerment., the lower case for dowry deaths and female infanticide. Female infanticide occurs even in China and I blame the congress government and AIIMS fair and square for creating this horrible nightmare. Just like in emergency, forcible sterilization was a Congress pet theme., concept of female infanticide was introduced by them to control population.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 18 Jun 2013 01:43

apoorv wrote:Modi will meet Advani tomorrow. Any idea what will be discussed?

Modi will carry a special ayurvedic oil prepared personally by Baba Ramdev. It is called Vaardhakya-dosha-nivarana-thailam. Dasoge:Two ounces on the baldhead every two hours and not venture for an hour after 30 minutes of massge into any place where there is light. Once the cure is done he can become PM of India in 2024.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 18 Jun 2013 01:54

Muppalla wrote:
apoorv wrote:Modi will meet Advani tomorrow. Any idea what will be discussed?
Modi will carry a special ayurvedic oil prepared personally by Baba Ramdev. It is called Vaardhakya-dosha-nivarana-thailam. Dasoge:Two ounces on the baldhead every two hours and not venture for an hour after 30 minutes of massge into any place where there is light. Once the cure is done he can become PM of India in 2024.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Jun 2013 02:58

Theo_Fidel wrote:
SwamyG wrote:ps: So what do you think about the sanitation and girl student numbers in Gujarat?
One hopes that in its quest for purity the BJP does not forget what politics is about.
Personally this quest for purity makes me uncomfortable.

What is purity? Is Modi, me or anybody in BRF - or for that matter in social media talking about any purity? Race purity? Religious purity? What is purity...seriously I do not understand this purity talk?

Modi's views on secularism is "India First". It is not Hinduism first. It is not Hindutva first. So what are you afraid of? He is not going to convert Christians into Hinduism. He is not going to drive Muslims to Pakistan or Bangladesh. He probably will drive out illegal Bangladeshis - but that is not likely.

So what bothers you really?

Sanitation & Girl students. Sanitation, good start but data does not back up the extreme claims. For instance infectious disease numbers are in the middling range. Female literacy, remains a laggard, per census 2011, @ 63.31 only a smidge above Odisha, Punjab and Assam.

Hey, as long it is moving in the right direction. It is good, no

? Or do we want everything to be so perfect only then can he enter the national scene?

Fully back the latest program to drag every girl child if necessary into school. My one criticism would be that it seems very top down, simplistic and makes mistakes on the dynamics of what is keeping girls out of school.

Lack of sanitation, is pretty much an important topic. And if he addresses it and leaves the situation better than yesterday. Then full marks to him, no?

The problem consistently has been the status of the girl child. All the way from, leaves family, dowry cost, family name, needed for house work, early marriage, early pregnancy, poor nutrition, low work participation, etc. The data indicates that female sex ratio in GJ is very low and surprisingly getting lower. This tells me that the status of the girl child has not changed. All this /Government officer monitoring is not going to change that dynamic. You can see what happened in Haryana or Punjab where education & prosperity without social reform has created a female infanticide crisis. These are complex issues that refuse to be solved with simplistic solutions.

So how is Modi to blame if people are slow to change? It took how many years after USA independence to abolish slavery? How many years for women to get suffrage? Sure social dynamics and reform are complex and a single leader or party cannot swing magic wand (unless they are in China). But those generational changes cannot be faulted on Modi. Is he doing for the betterment of people, is the key question. Not enough is secondary.