Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 23 Dec 2012 10:37

^^The BJP's erstwhile slogan - 'cultural nationalism' back from the halcyon days of its majestic isolation and its party-with-difference image - is now as forgotten as its 'India shining' slogan. Both were a tad premature perhaps, ahead of their time. Their time may come now, with a larger, more vocal and more organized critical mass of awake-n-aware citizenry as a natural reservoir to draw upon. Or so I hope.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 23 Dec 2012 10:41

Hari Seldon wrote: Both were a tad premature perhaps, ahead of their time.

Probably a little ahead of their time, but also implemented by a team who perhaps did not know how to market it properly....Modi really, really gets the latter part.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 23 Dec 2012 11:09

Arjun wrote:
Carl wrote:She hit the bullseye in saying that the revival of the innate spirit of India is the chief feature of all this 'asmita' politics of Modi..
The 'Asmita' factor is hugely significant...Hopefully this concept can be refined and rolled out across India at a state-level. What that would mean for example is that 'Moditva' is supportive of say revival of Tamil spirit and cultural identity as long as (a) it does not become chauvinistic and (b) the local revival remains harmonious with and within the context of the larger Indic spirit....I am taking TN as just one example - hoping this concept would be applicable to all states.

More than TN, i feel AP which has been running on dictates from the Delhi durbar perpetually, where the decision of "Madam" is the final word on even the most local of politics is a ripe case for such an asmita movement .
Its sickening to the core to see daily, the local state congress leaders rush to Delhi to have a darshan of "high command" and get their "advice" on the most trivial of issues concerning state governance, factional settlements etc. Even as iam typing this the CM of AP is camping in Delhi to get "guidance" from the Madam a midst talk of him getting replaced .

Best example of the disdain the high command has for local leadership is seen in the way Sonia G announced her "gift" of Telangana state to the people of AP on the eve of her birthday on December 9, 2009 without even presenting a fig leaf of apparent consultation with the local congress leaders. The burning embers from that fire put to AP are still smoldering and people from both sides of the cause are slowly realizing the malicious role and intent of the "High command" in fracturing the AP polity on the telangana issue.

Additionally the role of CBI in selective targeting of local political leaders which fills the headlines of the vernacular dailies most of the time is increasingly being realized as nothing but machinations by the "High command" .

There is potential for this issue to become a huge vote puller, but only if CBN gets his game together - till now he was a total disappointment on this front and there is a real danger of Jagan monopolizing the anti-Sonia vote.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 23 Dec 2012 11:40

The cry for Cultural Nationalism has been demonized sufficiently. Any espousal of our local culture is taken to mean uncouth. Since last few decades the Indic culture is steadily yielding to Umrikhan and Uropain cultures especially so in the Metros and within the monied class. To these classes the Nationalism part is desirable but the cultural part is something they would rather have permission for. Then their are people who do not per se have a problem with the culture (basically having their own culture) but do have a thing against the Nationalism part.

If Cultural Nationalism has to stage a come back in our lives then it has to piggy back on the development plank and 'Asmita' is a fine rebranding of the same. Idea of Asmita can actually be desiminated much better down till Gram level without giving any hint of an artificial conflict.

But then the people vested in Secularism/Modernism/WTHism carry a lot of money and muscle power (state money and state power) and will not give in easily against the idea of Asmita. There will be a campaign to malign Asmita too. You can rest assured the next time there is some 'Honour killing', the English media will take pot shots at Asmita.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 23 Dec 2012 18:23

Arjun Saar, it is good to compare other parts of the World. Indian Constitution makers consulted several Constitutions of this World before coming up with India's. However, your comparison with America does not have value in this conversation.

You brought only feudalism as a good point, however you have not backed it up on how it can manifest in Indian 21st century politics.

In my mind, a good point against dynastic politics would be the factor of legacy. A genetic descendent of a leader is far likely to be interested in his or ancestor's legacy, and would strive to keep the ancestors' legacy shiny and clean. A non-genetic descendant would only go to an extent to protect a former leader's legacy.

Another point against dynastic politics is that a genetic descendent is likely to inherit behavioral traits, political and social thoughts and will be shaped in the mold of his or her ancestors having grown in the same household. This might work for family owned businesses, but will not necessarily translate to the welfare of nation.

I would expect arguments for you on these lines,

but we cannot preclude any individual from politics or any sphere because he or she was born into a particular family, how much ever we might find faults in that family. In fact highlighting the dynasty might back fire in some sections of voters who would vote because of dynastic connections.

Ps: Rajendra Chola I was as great if not greater than his illustrious father Rajaraja Chola. We can find examples in our history for both for and against. It boils down to individuals.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Dec 2012 18:34

One way of stopping individual/die nasty cult is restricting the number of years of rule by a person.

However easier said than done as India has a different form of governance with leader selected from the majority in the parliament.
May not work out.

Bad news will be the continuation of corrupt system.
Good news is time does not stop. All bad and good will come to an end one day.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 23 Dec 2012 18:44

Good analysis of 'neo-middle class' politics :

Narendra Modi win signals rise of neo-middle class

For much too long social engineering and victimhood narratives have been the dominant paradigms for both understanding politics and for advancing political agenda. Since the advent of the UPA, the Sonia Gandhi lead National Advisory Council with its agenda of Rights based Entitlements has further obscured the rise of the neo-middle class with the universal appellation aam admi gaining currency within the national political discourse.

Back in 2009 in the aftermath of the Lok Sabha defeat of the BJP in a three part series of blogs, this columnist argued for displacing social engineering with ‘socio-economic engineering‘ for the Centre Right to reclaim the dominant political narrative using the twin constructs of the ‘Ladder of Opportunity’ and the “Safety of the Net” to better target the neo Middle Class.

Most recently examining hard survey data collected in Gujarat earlier this year, this columnist had posited that the rise of the Neo Aspirational class presents the most potent challenge to the UPA’s aam admi politics.

“It is this “neo-aspirational” class’ hunger for job opportunities and infrastructure that is shaping a different kind of electoral discourse where development and economic growth are viewed as essential to the ladder of opportunity while concerns over inflation manifest into the desire for a subsidy-oriented safety net. This is markedly different from the UPA’s aam admi rhetoric which is all about imaginary rights and entitlements from NREGA to Food Security with the lure of cash transfers. The key difference is that the neo-aspirational class is far more impatient to climb the ladder of opportunity rather than militate like the UPA’s aam admi for a safety net woven out of rights and entitlements. The anger against UPA’s corruption is also reflection of this impatience.”

Social engineering and victimhood narratives have been political anomalies for some time now with a young and impatient India hungry to satisfy its aspirations making electoral choices that defy conventional political wisdom. Soon they will become anachronisms with the Gujarat victory marking the first time an explicit agenda targeting the neo-aspirational class being advanced by a major political party receiving such a resounding endorsement from the citizenry.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 23 Dec 2012 18:57

SwamyG wrote:...but we cannot preclude any individual from politics or any sphere because he or she was born into a particular family, how much ever we might find faults in that family. In fact highlighting the dynasty might back fire in some sections of voters who would vote because of dynastic connections.

Fair enough....that's your opinion. Modi has been very much playing up his non-dynastic credentials in his electoral contests - and I take a fairly dim view of analysts who state X & Y are ideas that can never be sold to the Indian electorate. It all depends on the skill and talent of the candidate communicating with the electorate (in this case Modi), and as you probably know very many 'generally accepted' shibboleths have been proved wrong by Modi in this election.

Sponging off of a surname, especially by a family so spectacularly untalented as the one following IG - is instinctively repulsive to me and I would think to most right-thinking folks. Lets leave it at that.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 24 Dec 2012 03:08

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/how-t ... 66907.html
How to become a national leader: A three step guide for Modi

The Bekaar Patel is back. The bekaar peddled so many theories how patels are going to destroy modi. With all his hopes dashed, Bekkarji now came back with few ideas on how Modi can go national

.

Modiji has been waiting last 2 days for this to come out. Now that he has the plan from Bekaarji, he is all set.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 24 Dec 2012 04:47

Won't let BJP make Modi PM, says Mayawati

Bahujan Samaj Party chief Mayawati on Sunday said the Bharatiya Janata Party was "dreaming" of making Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi the prime minister after the Lok Sabha polls, but her party would not allow that to happen.

In a statement, she slammed Modi for strengthening communal forces and said the BSP would never support the BJP for making Modi the prime minister.
Mayawati accused the BJP of stalling the passage of the quota in promotions bill in the Lok Sabha.

She said the BJP was in league with the Congress on stonewalling the issue.

In a letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, she demanded a special Lok Sabha session for clearance of the bill.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 79893.aspx

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 24 Dec 2012 04:55

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 24 Dec 2012 05:49

Hari Seldon wrote:^^The BJP's erstwhile slogan - 'cultural nationalism' back from the halcyon days of its majestic isolation and its party-with-difference image - is now as forgotten as its 'India shining' slogan. Both were a tad premature perhaps, ahead of their time. Their time may come now, with a larger, more vocal and more organized critical mass of awake-n-aware citizenry as a natural reservoir to draw upon. Or so I hope.

Hari garu,

we need to let the current "youth" settle down. give about 10 years, and we will start seeing the first stirrings of the future.
these are the first generation to pass through the "open hedonism" phase. they will offer a small glimpse in about a decade's time.
there's no guarantee that it will be "cultural nationalism" though.
considering the deracination we have been put through, it might take a long, convoluted path to eventually get there. and that might take decades.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Dec 2012 08:23

Arjun, this thread will remain here.

niran · Post by **niran** » 24 Dec 2012 09:32

ravi_g wrote:The concentration of power. There have been reports (I cannot confirm, merely reporting what I heard) that just about 15 people decide on the adminstration of Gujarat. Request the better informed ones to share their ideas on how this will affect things if Modi does come on to the national scene.

NaMo administers Gujarat kinda like a hands down CEO would, imagine a PCS affsar enjoying SRT 100th 100 and his phone rings
haallo!
may i speak to ........
speaking
do you sir know that there is a water leak in such and such area
...oh!ah!um... Sir...
just go and do the needfull

the affsar tie his dhoti or lungi as per the need and rushes off

get the point Saar?

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 24 Dec 2012 09:34

Modi has a task cut out for him.

Considering the Social media thing happening these days. He will have to strengthen the State intel structure. Prevention is always better then crisis management.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 24 Dec 2012 11:44

My God, Mayawati speaking out against communalism? This kind of species sees and feels caste in each and every thing and the only leader who has thrown identity to the dustbin is being targeted by her?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 24 Dec 2012 11:47

A respone to the spate of articles wondering about Modi's suitability for India's top job

Kaun Banega Pradhan Mantri?

http://jaideepprabhu.org/2012/12/21/kau ... an-mantri/

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 24 Dec 2012 11:49

Good only. Now Miyan Mulla-e-aam can share his love for Muslims with Maya memsahib.

In any case OBCs and Uppar wala Kast need to ignore Maya and get back to where they belong.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 24 Dec 2012 12:02

Yogi_G wrote:My God, Mayawati speaking out against communalism? This kind of species sees and feels caste in each and every thing and the only leader who has thrown identity to the dustbin is being targeted by her?

ravi_g wrote:Good only. Now Miyan Mulla-e-aam can share his love for Muslims with Maya memsahib.

In any case OBCs and Uppar wala Kast need to ignore Maya and get back to where they belong.

Let me make a prediction, Mullahyam will keep quiet.

Neither of two care about either Modi or FDI, all they care about is timing of elections, money and CBI.

Mullah-yam wants election ASAP before UP's junta realizes the mistake they made by electing SP, whereas Mayawati wants elections as late as possible for obvious reasons.

Also.. although I am not sure I think Maya is worried about Upper Castes Brahmin voting for BJP if Modi is chosen so is seeking to replace that votebank with Muslims..

Chandrasekhar · Post by **Chandrasekhar** » 24 Dec 2012 12:49

Sushupti wrote:
Won't let BJP make Modi PM, says Mayawati

OT:
Sonia's stand on dalit promotion quota bill is pure drama, Mayawati says

A livid Mayawati is making no bones about her belief that Congress was the villain of the quota piece, while ignoring the voice of dissent from the BJP.

How can I say BJP is against the bill when it voted for it in Rajya Sabha?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 24 Dec 2012 18:16

Force Modi on a roll

Lofty oratory was ever India Today's S.Prasannarajan's forte. So it is again. Warms the jingo heart. Some of his observations are brilliantly articulated, IMHO.

In a country where the attitudes of its ruling class are invariably incompatible with the aspirations of its people, his hat-trick in Gandhinagar essays the possibilities of leadership and the rewards of conviction.

The size and sweep of his conquest shows in three-dimensional clarity that power, even absolute power, when wielded by a politician with integrity and vision, doesn't necessarily corrupt; rather, it becomes a mandate for change. Today, in an India of calcified reputations in governance, change becomes Modi, and going by the velocity of his ascent, his domain is bound to be larger than Gujarat.

For India's sake, I hope so.

In Moditva, the bestselling idea of Indian Right, merges the uses of good economics and the reach of evangelical politics. Modi is that rare Hindu nationalist who doesn't shop in mythology for his political wares in spite of being labelled as an ideological zealot; he buys his goods for mass consumption from the marketplaces of twenty-first century. Modi on the stump has never been a salesman of the Great Yesterday unlike desperate right wingers elsewhere.

That is why the overwhelming vote for Modi Part Three is also a mandate for the moderniser who has reaped the biggest demographic dividend of the country: The youth. He ensured them a future. At a time when the professional politician is struggling to overcome the trust deficit, Modi's record in governance highlights the essential virtues of a ruling politician: Honesty and an ability to deliver on economic promises.

Ooooh, loving it. Every single word. Stopping trying to highlight as I'd have to bolden the entire text only. Read, wonder, ponder. If only. Only.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 24 Dec 2012 21:23

India’s New Face

By ROBERT D. KAPLAN

Meet Narendra Modi, chief minister of Gujarat and the brightest star in the Hindu-chauvinist Bharatiya Janata Party. Under Modi, Gujarat has become an economic dynamo. But he also presided over India’s worst communal riots in decades, a 2002 slaughter that left almost 2,000 Muslims dead. Exploiting the insecurities and tensions stoked by India’s opening to the world, Modi has turned his state into a stronghold of Hindu extremism, shredding Gandhi’s vision of secular coexistence in the process. One day, he could be governing the world’s largest democracy.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ce/307332/

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 Dec 2012 22:30

Sushupti wrote:

Interesting! Is Niti central is saying that RSS/BJP factions are the first opposition to NM? Is this even correct?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 24 Dec 2012 22:36

RamaY wrote:
Interesting! Is Niti central is saying that RSS/BJP factions are the first opposition to NM? Is this even correct?

If i am correct it was the Kanchan Da who started using D4 as early as 2008-2009 as a symbol of protest to the shenanigans of "LOh Purush". Regarding RSS, gone are the days of Grurji and bala Saheb Deoras. Moral corruption of RSS (specially among "Prant" level and district level guys coordinating with BJP) due to BJP tasting power in 90s is breathtaking.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 25 Dec 2012 10:01

That could easily be one of the reasons for the stagnation in the growth of Shakhas.

RSS brass commanded more respect earlier and their opponents were also more vicious. Today the opponents of RSS have mellowed down and now they rail against Modi. Possibily because Modi carries the same flame that RSS used to do earlier.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 25 Dec 2012 10:25

Ultra secular MK Bhadra Kumar joins Modi que

http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2 ... les-court/

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 25 Dec 2012 10:45

WTF this comes from MKB?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 25 Dec 2012 11:06

deleted

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 25 Dec 2012 11:29

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?283393

Madhu Kishwar cover page article.

She had tweeted of the extremely cold reaction she got on NDTV and how she was being cut off.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 25 Dec 2012 15:01

Modi is a workaholic. He does not have any distractions in his life. No one to be cared for or worried about in next generation. Anyone who closely knows him knows this fact.
He likes people who comes up with right development ideas. He had recruited quite young blood in gujarat who are starting their career and less likely to be corrupt for first ten years of their career.
His team of beurocrats are high achievers being low on corruption index as they are constantly watched upon by people around for slightest hint of corruption.
Certain facts are legendary about his working style. He was ruthless in cleaning up people early on in his tenure and as a result the administration is clean or say less corrupt even now. Low level corruption exists everywhere. Even today if official at higher level is caught red handed he will be pursued for every penny till money goes back to govt. coffers.
However certain facts and challenges remain to be addressed. I think that is natural progression as it takes some time for development work to be recognised at every level of society in a democracy.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 25 Dec 2012 21:54

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 25 Dec 2012 21:56

Modi has arrived. But is India ready?

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/gujar ... 121225.htm

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 25 Dec 2012 22:01

The road to Delhi will go via Lucknow: Is BJP pitching Modi as Vajpayee's successor?

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/bjp- ... 39407.html

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 25 Dec 2012 22:20

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/a-new ... /1048996/0
A new idea of India?

Can Narendra Modi sell Indians a new dream of India? The first time I asked myself this question was after a university commencement ceremony he presided over in Ahmedabad some years ago. What was unusual about the ceremony was that it was completely Indian without being self-consciously so. The graduating students wore Indian clothes and saffron scarves instead of black caps and gowns and when they received their degrees from the Chief Minister, it was to the sound of Sanskrit chanting. It was as beautiful and pristine a commencement as I have seen anywhere. But, the reason why the occasion has remained vivid in my memory is because I saw in it the possibility of an Indian education system that could one day be decolonised.

In this column last week, I said that he is the only Indian political leader today with a clear economic vision. It is a vision that glorifies prosperity and not poverty and this has led poverty and this has led some commentators to already start speaking of him as India’s Deng Xiaoping. Deng brought prosperity to China by throwing Chairman Mao’s economic ideas into history’s trash can and if Modi decides to enter national politics, he will need to throw a lot of foolish economic ideas away and especially those that the RSS continues to propagate. But, he will need to do much more.

He will need to examine how to decolonise politics and governance especially in Delhi that to this day remains the last outpost of the British imperial system of governance. So we have political leaders who, in the name of security, live like minor potentates. They are served faithfully by bureaucrats trained to serve colonial masters and not the natives.

India remains colonial not just in the way it is governed but in its mindset. So in the engagement with modern ideas and modern technology what younger Indians are losing very quickly is their sense of being Indian.

Only a new dream will restore in India a sense of who she once was and what she would like to be again one day. As things stand all we do is pay lip service to our ‘ancient civilisation’ while watching it slowly disappear under the onslaught of modern ideas and modern technology. It is hard to think of a time when we needed a new dream more than we do now. It has to be a dream that is bigger than just a new economic vision but the glorification of prosperity instead of poverty is not a bad foundation for a new dream.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 27 Dec 2012 08:53

Interesting viewpoint from MR Vankatesh: Modi has arrived. But is India ready?

The reason for the same is obvious. Let us remember that Modi is not the first chief minister of a state who has won three consecutive terms. Yet Modi is different. Modi, let me put it bluntly, is akin to a disruptive technology that makes several inventions and innovations till date completely obsolete.

But there is an entirely different dimension to this debate about Modi. For six decades since Independence political parties in India have come to a conclusion that India can at best consistently be a developing country; not a developed nation. On the contrary, political parties have unanimously developed a sacred and secular vote bank of our poor that consistently feeds all political parties in India.

That makes Modi and his growth and development model a red herring for all political parties. How can India democracy function without its gargantuan numbers of poor? That is not all. Politics of poor invariably leads to economics of subsidy, allotments and entitlements. This in turn feeds on a massive lobby that feeds on itself and the beneficiaries of all this in turn ensure that India remains underdeveloped; and its vast majority of poor in a perennially subsistence state.

This is where Gujarat growth model excites most Indians. Crucially, Modi has ensured a robust farm growth for over a decade. Even his worst detractors concede that Gujarat -- a predominantly water starved state -- has maintained an electrifying farm growth in excess of 7% consistently for over a decade. This is in direct contrast in a country where the planning commission "plans" for a pan-Indian farm growth of 4% and gloats on ending with a growth rate far lesser than 3%.

And remember, Gujarat engines India's manufacturing and physical exports too. Of course on some social indices Gujarat is lacking behind the all India average. But why then did people of Gujarat vote him back to power? The reason for the same is not far to seek -- Indians do not seek miracles from their government. All that they want is honest leaders who put their best foot forward.

That explains why despite his intensely polarising personality, even his political opponents have failed in even levelling any credible corruption charge against Modi. This is in stark contrast in a country where several Union Cabinet ministers, including the prime minister, are under a cloud. That incorruptible personality of Modi appeals to the average Indian so very desperate for a clean and decisive leadership.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 27 Dec 2012 08:58

AOA didn't know where to post this, but here goes:

B Raman on GoI..

A Prime Minister, who neither rules nor governs nor controls and who is devoid of any warmth in his interactions either in Parliament or with the public,

· a Congress President who exercises vast powers without a proper understanding and appreciation of the feelings and sentiments of the people of this country, specially the youth, and

· the absence of competent political advisers to the Government, who could make good the deficiencies of the political leadership and provide the necessary correctives in dealing with internal crisis situations.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 27 Dec 2012 09:13

Sushupti wrote:Ultra secular MK Bhadra Kumar joins Modi que

http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2 ... les-court/

Very interesting. I guess sitting in Kerala he has begun to shift uneasily in his seat about what's happening in Mallapuram?

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Dec 2012 09:37

^^ MKB writing the above column is as amazing/unlikely as seeing a column by A.Roy/Burkha Dutt praising Modi!!

Wonder what triggered this shift!

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 27 Dec 2012 09:44

sum wrote:^^ MKB writing the above column is as amazing/unlikely as seeing a column by A.Roy/Burkha Dutt praising Modi!!

Wonder what triggered this shift!

The reality of inevitability.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 27 Dec 2012 09:54

Merely for the Farm growth aspect, we can have Modi even without anything else. If Gujarat without much water can get that much done imagine what UP can achieve. A task master like Modi can be expected to get the sleepy babooz in Min. of Agriculture to move fast.