Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 May 2014 01:40

SwamyG wrote:[
It is getting ridiculous. Like I said, Modi's biggest enemies are his supporters.

Let us get one thing straight, India is not going to become a Hindu Kingdom - anytime soon. It has to remain secular - treating all religions with respect or skepticism - keeping them away at an arm's distance for the actual functioning of government and betterment of its people. Keep the battlefield (conversion ground) even and fair, and the let people decide if they want to follow Mo, Jo or Mu.

Oh I see, so people who vote for them to listen to their nautanki like "Bangladeshis be ready to pack your bags" and vote for them, but not question them if they cant even put that in their manifesto. Wth man??

I am a stats guy and used to maintain the border fencing data for BR. So I pretty much have a good feel to what zilch they did from 98-2004 on that issue. the answer is squat.

So it is well within the rights of BJP supporters to question them.

Let me throw this at you

Check BJP's 2009 manifesto, they very clear say, if elected we will free temples from state control,

Can I ask you why Namo led BJP has not spoken or mentioned this issue in their manifesto??

I voted, I am not sure if you did and I will ask these questions on every forum available. After all after 5 years of zero deportations in 2019 Namo can tell us suckers that the deportation issue was not in our manifesto at all. So what value does his speech or claim hold??

The point is commitments are needed on paper, not hawa baazi.

I am not asking for draft like some on the proposed mechanism, all I am asking for is a commitment like they have done on other issues.

in these youtube days, it is not very hard to expose your hero, so be careful. I can pull up old videos of Namo (zee news interview with Swati Chaturvedi in 2007) where he has publicly said that people like Paswan and Lalu are the worst creatures in Indian democracy and he cannot even imagine shaking hands with them. He said this in response to a question when the interviewer asked his opinion on the fact that "paswan said bd's should be given citizenship". Namo goes one step further and says paswan campaigned in bihar with osama masks and he considers such politicians the lowliest creatures in india.

Hmm, here he is publicly with paswan to grab power. Again i understand certain compulsions, but then what is to prove that it is those same compulsions that prevented them from expelling bd's in their manifesto and not freeing temples.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 May 2014 01:42

muraliravi wrote: Hmm, nothing wrong in being suspect about a party which has time and again fooled hindus. RSS has seen the damage antonio maino has done over 10 years and decided to go full throttle to support modi, that does not mean they trust he will do everything they need. Well, the truth is BJP has actually fooled RSS. Speeches mean nothing, what matters is the manifesto.

So how has BJP fooled RSS and Hindus in their manifesto

If Hindus are such fools, and they continued to be duped by the party then they have three choices:
1) Continue being fools and vote for BJP.
2) Vote for another party.
3) Stay home.

Speeches & Manifesto matters zilch. What matters is what the government does in reality. Everything else is maaya. Modi is a politician, clearly different and apart from others. He wants to win, and will say and act in ways that he thinks is right for him/party.

While all of us have our own pet wishes, bucket list and agenda that we would want Modi to implement. It is a democracy, and in spite of any winning margins he can do only so much. He is not the silver bullet, but if given a chance he can set the direction of India. He is not a sarva roga nivarana legiyam.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 May 2014 01:44

Wow

Both Paswan & Modi will be right when BD Muslims convert to Hinduism in order to get Indian Citizenship.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 04 May 2014 01:44

muraliravi wrote:
SwamyG wrote:[
It is getting ridiculous. Like I said, Modi's biggest enemies are his supporters.

Let us get one thing straight, India is not going to become a Hindu Kingdom - anytime soon. It has to remain secular - treating all religions with respect or skepticism - keeping them away at an arm's distance for the actual functioning of government and betterment of its people. Keep the battlefield (conversion ground) even and fair, and the let people decide if they want to follow Mo, Jo or Mu.
Oh I see, so people who vote for them to listen to their nautanki like "Bangladeshis be ready to pack your bags" and vote for them, but not question them if they cant even put that in their manifesto. Wth man??

I am a stats guy and used to maintain the border fencing data for BR. So I pretty much have a good feel to what zilch they did from 98-2004 on that issue. the answer is squat.

So it is well within the rights of BJP supporters to question them.

Let me throw this at you

Check BJP's 2009 manifesto, they very clear say, if elected we will free temples from state control,

Can I ask you why Namo led BJP has not spoken or mentioned this issue in their manifesto??

I voted, I am not sure if you did and I will ask these questions on every forum available. After all after 5 years of zero deportations in 2019 Namo can tell us suckers that the deportation issue was not in our manifesto at all. So what value does his speech or claim hold??

Can you take this to whine thread?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 May 2014 01:48

muraliravi wrote: Oh I see, so people who vote for them to listen to their nautanki like "Bangladeshis be ready to pack your bags" and vote for them, but not question them if they cant even put that in their manifesto. Wth man??

I am a stats guy and used to maintain the border fencing data for BR. So I pretty much have a good feel to what zilch they did from 98-2004 on that issue. the answer is squat.

So it is well within the rights of BJP supporters to question them.

Let me throw this at you

Check BJP's 2009 manifesto, they very clear say, if elected we will free temples from state control,

Can I ask you why Namo led BJP has not spoken or mentioned this issue in their manifesto??

I voted, I am not sure if you did and I will ask these questions on every forum available. After all after 5 years of zero deportations in 2019 Namo can tell us suckers that the deportation issue was not in our manifesto at all. So what value does his speech or claim hold??

You might be whatever you claim or want to be. It does not matter to me. Sure every person has rights to question Modi or anyone. It is a free world after all. And equally others have the right to cast opinions on the questions that are being asked.

Why do you think Manifesto is a veda vaakku? Things mentioned in the manifesto need not be done, and things not mentioned in the manifesto can be done. In fact they are mutually exclusive, as a stats guy you probably know that already.

Dude, you ask questions in any forum you want. I am not stopping you from raising questions that you think are important to you. But I have the right to state my opinions too.

So if you did not trust Modi and BJP, then what is the big deal then, because he is not going to do anything you want anyway.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 May 2014 01:50

sivab wrote: Can you take this to whine thread?

I bet you guys while wine about ABV 2 by 2019.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 May 2014 01:52

muraliravi wrote:
sivab wrote: Can you take this to whine thread?
I bet you guys while wine about ABV 2 by 2019.

err you mean 2029??

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 04 May 2014 01:53

Aaj tak was having a panel discussion on why Amit Shah is complaining of rigging in UP. Samajwadi Party saying he is preparing excuses for defeat in UP.

Dhoti shivering please explain

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 04 May 2014 01:53

Saar not all politics happens out in the open. In fact most of the crucial ones happen behind the scene.

Also, his focus will be on development and governance in the 1st term. He will not go for any big ticket Hindutva that too is given but that doe not mean he has diluted his commitment.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 May 2014 01:54

chaanakya wrote:
muraliravi wrote:[
I bet you guys while wine about ABV 2 by 2019.
err you mean 2029??

No sir, i am pretty sure he will go to lahore in his first term and do namaz there and BJP cadre will disown him by 2019.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 04 May 2014 01:55

Bhaiyon can we wait till May 16 before the policy making is discussed for the new Govt. BTW, white may be the official color for polls but do any one of you who are well wishers of Bhajapa plan to switch to white from Saffron. Why do you think that the karyakartas will give up Saffron. Saffron is our identity and I do not think poll requirements will make us give it up in the long run.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 04 May 2014 01:55

muraliravi wrote:
sivab wrote: Can you take this to whine thread?
I bet you guys while wine about ABV 2 by 2019.

So be it. Its still better than dienasty. He hasn't even had a chance to rule India and complaints already. He has done more good for Hindus than anyone in this forum has. IMO, etc.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 May 2014 01:58

BijuShet wrote:Bhaiyon can we wait till May 16 before the policy making is discussed for the new Govt. BTW, white may be the official color for polls but do any one of you who are well wishers of Bhajapa plan to switch to white from Saffron. Why do you think that the karyakartas will give up Saffron. Saffron is our identity and I do not think poll requirements will make us give it up in the long run.

Check BJP manifesto cover page. that is proof enough that in this mirage of a wave, somethings have been swept under the carpet

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 May 2014 01:58

muraliravi wrote:

No sir, i am pretty sure he will go to lahore in his first term and do namaz there and BJP cadre will disown him by 2019.

But Lawhore is a Good city to visit. What's wrong with that? That is part of Akhand Bharat anyway. About Namaz part, though , I am not sure. Remember topi episode.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 May 2014 01:59

sivab wrote: So be it. Its still better than dienasty. He hasn't even had a chance to rule India and complaints already. He has done more good for Hindus than anyone in this forum has. IMO, etc.

And what good has Modi done for hindus so far, can you name some of them?

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 May 2014 02:00

chaanakya wrote:
muraliravi wrote:

No sir, i am pretty sure he will go to lahore in his first term and do namaz there and BJP cadre will disown him by 2019.
But Lawhore is a Good city to visit. What's wrong with that? That is part of Akhand Bharat anyway. About Namaz part, though , I am not sure. Remember topi episode.

Yah, that akhand Bharat in which close to 50% are non hindus which if formed again by mistake will destroy hindu civilization in a span of 10 years.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 May 2014 02:01

muraliravi wrote:
sivab wrote: Can you take this to whine thread?
I bet you guys while wine about ABV 2 by 2019.

Ah....now should I take all your numbers with a truck load of salt because it is biased?

Modi has already done what ABV did not do....he has openly attacked the family like no one has ever done before. Leaders always run the risk of disappointing their followers, it comes with the territory for them.

I understand, you have certain expectations from BJP and Modi, and you have the right to expect that from them. Modi has both Hindutva and non-Hindutva crowd behind him, and he has a tough balancing act to do when he gets the post. Every step he makes will be keenly watch and analyzed by:
1) His Hindtuva supporters.
2) His non-Hindtuva supporters
3) His opposition -pseudo-seculars, NGOs, Marxists, Missionaries, Dynasty ityadi.

It is not a very envious position. He will be doomed anything he does or says. He understands that too.

There are things that can happen, will happen, should happen and should not happen.

Neram, kalam and samyam undu.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 04 May 2014 02:02

muraliravi wrote:
BijuShet wrote:Bhaiyon can we wait till May 16 before the policy making is discussed for the new Govt. BTW, white may be the official color for polls but do any one of you who are well wishers of Bhajapa plan to switch to white from Saffron. Why do you think that the karyakartas will give up Saffron. Saffron is our identity and I do not think poll requirements will make us give it up in the long run.
Check BJP manifesto cover page. that is proof enough that in this mirage of a wave, somethings have been swept under the carpet

Bhai why are you thinking that we will rule only for 5 years and then give the chair back to the Hand. We need to be patient. The first term will be more NDA and less BJP. Once desh nay humme parakh liya then we will turn white to saffron.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 04 May 2014 02:02

muraliravi wrote:
sivab wrote: So be it. Its still better than dienasty. He hasn't even had a chance to rule India and complaints already. He has done more good for Hindus than anyone in this forum has. IMO, etc.
And what good has Modi done for hindus so far, can you name some of them?

Now you are talking like Congi/AAP. I can list, but don't want to go further with this insanity.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 May 2014 02:04

It is truly like the movie Roshmon. People look at things differently from their perspective. On the cover page thingi, look what Coomi Kapoor has to say:

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... y-bhag/99/

The cover of the BJP manifesto, which was released belatedly, has some interesting pointers. For instance, the background of the cover is entirely saffron whereas earlier documents used to be coloured part saffron and part green, the colours of the BJP flag. The placement of senior leaders on the cover page is also intriguing. Atal Bihari Vajpayee, L K Advani, Murli Manohar Joshi and Rajnath Singh have all been positioned in a vertical line on the left-hand side, while Modi, surrounded by pictures of Arun Jaitley, Sushma Swaraj and all BJP chief ministers, is in a horizontal line at the bottom of the page. The placements suggest that the figures to the left are the party’s emeritus, distinguished party members who are no longer in active service. The intriguing question is why Rajnath Singh, who at 62 is one year younger than Modi, has been lumped with three octogenarians who, one assumes, will be semi-retired if Modi comes to power. The suggestion emanating from Modi’s camp is that, in a new dispensation, Rajnath should continue as party president and not serve in a ministry. That way Rajnath will technically be No. 2 in the party, but not part of the decision-making process in government. But Rajnath’s camp is surely interested in a ministerial portfolio?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 May 2014 02:05

muraliravi wrote:
sivab wrote: So be it. Its still better than dienasty. He hasn't even had a chance to rule India and complaints already. He has done more good for Hindus than anyone in this forum has. IMO, etc.
And what good has Modi done for hindus so far, can you name some of them?

And what you want him to do for Hindus?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 04 May 2014 02:05

The white lotus has nothing to do with peace or Christianization. All the symbols shown on the EVMs are black and white prints, not color. Feedback from low level cadre indicated that some voters were confused that the EVMs did not show the coloured lotus they expected. The BJP therefore sent a missive to all state level cadre to publicize the white lotus imagery. This was mentioned in a news article about 2 weeks ago.

The Shiv Sena has a lesser problem with their teer/dhanush symbol being misinterpreted because they're a regional party with whom their regional demographic is familiar. In the case of the BJP, considering their previous vote share was 18% and current 5forty3 estimate is >30%, a lot of voters are new to BJP, and are considering them because of Modi. They should be able to identify the symbol unambiguously, which is why the BJP has taken pains to use the white silhouette symbol instead of their coloured version.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 04 May 2014 02:08

If Modi had spoken of his determination to bring in UCC in his 1st term about 10% (some say 15%) floating Hindu voters that now back BJP would have straightaway bolted to CON. Why would he talk of it or stress upon it in the manifesto if he knows that would prove deadly to his first goal i.e to get the Gandhi family out of the circle of power.

member_24042 · Post by **member_24042** » 04 May 2014 02:09

Modi never was pro-Hindutva. He demolished so many Hindu temples ruthlessly in Gujarat to make way for roads. Soon BJP will become like Khangressi B-team. I too was disappointed when the bhagwa lotus became white. Trust me Modi is going to be a second ABV2, nothing less, nothing more.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 May 2014 02:11

BTW, this is the cover page that is being discussed. How more saffron can one get? It might be personal tastes, but I prefer this visual than a visual where the page is white and the lotus is saffron in color. The modern/2014 Web design trends calls for bold colors. If people would have noticed, JJ and AIADMK had gone through color revolutions as well. She has gone for white and green theme. White backgrounds with clear green fonts. Of course she is in bed with some Muslim groups.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 04 May 2014 02:13

Saars if Modi or any other BJP leader is unable to unite the Hindus none of your dream projects are going to be implemented. CON and its clones have handed the Muslims a virtual veto. The first goal is to make mandal politics irrelevant and that requires steady and non controversial BJP government. Modi has repeatedly stressed the latter and it remains his goal. So why is it a surprise that he does not touch upon controversial topics?

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 May 2014 02:14

That means nothing, it is the lotus that is seen on posters

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 May 2014 02:14

muraliravi wrote:
sivab wrote: So be it. Its still better than dienasty. He hasn't even had a chance to rule India and complaints already. He has done more good for Hindus than anyone in this forum has. IMO, etc.
And what good has Modi done for hindus so far, can you name some of them?

Very pertinent question. I will put these three points so far.
1. Making Hindus progress, without shackling them with Muslim/Christian millstone. Its a different matter if Muslims/Christians also progress under him, if they want. If this strategy empowers & enriches 1 million Hindus in Gujarat, it is that few Hindus falling for Christian/Islamic inducements. On a national scale I expect this number to be 50-75 million per year.

2. Showing the Burkha of Secularism for what it truly is. This is the true benefit of 2014 election. At least 50-100million Hindus now identify Secularism for what it truly is. It is a chain-shackles & millstone in Hindu necks.

3. Strengthening of 2nd India, the Babudom (read my post on Three Indias a couple of years ago), and making it answerable/responsible for the real India, the Bharat. When Modi becomes PM, this will be third most valuable contribution he will do to India.

I told earlier that it is stupid of Hindus for not making India a Hindu Rashtra and believing the nonsense called Sarva-dharma Samabhava (this is secularism translated into Sanskrit to make it sound like some Vedic chant, while Vedas never say such nonsense, other examples being Sramaye Daivam/Work is worship by commies etc). Now they cannot cry at Modi for not removing all aspects of double colonization from India.

It is more important and purposeful for Hindus to get rid of intellectual double-colonization than removing some symbols of pillage. The Hindus who want this are still in minority and unless they want to put aside Democracy completely, there is no other way but self-education and self-empowerment until ALL Hindus feel the same and vote the same.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 May 2014 02:15

CT alert : there are two barely visible crosses(or crosshair ?

) over the images of RNS and MMJ, clearly missionary influence.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 May 2014 02:16

pankajs wrote:Saars if Modi or any other BJP leader is unable to unite the Hindus none of your dream projects are going to be implemented. CON and its clones have handed the Muslims a virtual veto. The first goal is to make mandal politics irrelevant and that requires steady and non controversial BJP government. Modi has repeatedly stressed the latter and it remains his goal. So why is it a surprise that he does not touch upon controversial topics?

The issue is that they will dilute agenda to come to power, screwup and then again give 10 years to congis

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 May 2014 02:17

muraliravi wrote:That means nothing, it is the lotus that is seen on posters

There is no good way to counter vidanda vadam.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 04 May 2014 02:17

MuraliRavi-ji,
I won't get into other points, but I will just mention about the change in the Lotus. Based on the BJP's urging, the EC changed the appearance of the Lotus, making some bits of it bolder in the EVMs. The exact same Lotus that was brought out by the ECI for the EVMs was used by the BJP, precisely because it was making headway in a lot of places where most people don't even recognise BJP symbol. I have head enough comments in TN about NaMo party as `Avanga Katchi Tamil Naatila Kaadayathu'. In order not to confuse the voters about the symbol, the BJP is using the same Lotus as the one on the EVMs. I don't think there is any other reason.

And can anyone please tell me why betraying the BJP agenda is harder if they have a saffron Lotus? After all, ABV dumped all of the BJP Hindutva agenda keeping the saffron Lotus.

Finally, why would the BJP even try to please the EJs and the missionaries (please don't tell me you have bought into Rahul Mehta's nonsense, pretty please - I have too much respect for your sensible nature.) If there is one group more fanatically opposed to the rise of the BJP than the Jihadis, it is the EJs (I ran into enough desperate EJs, moving heaven and earth to stop the BJP while campaigning in KT and TN). Why in the name of all that is wonderful would BJP try to appease the EJs?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 May 2014 02:18

muraliravi wrote:

Yah, that akhand Bharat in which close to 50% are non hindus which if formed again by mistake will destroy hindu civilization in a span of 10 years.

What Blasphemy, You don't agree with idea of Akhand Bharat. Did you never participate in any Shakha ?If so obviously you are outside of core thinking process of BJP. By the way , do you know that White Raw rice is used in Pooja in Hindu worship and it is called Akshat, , "that which never diminishes or is undamaged". White color of Akshat is seen a auspicious.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 May 2014 02:18

muraliravi wrote:That means nothing, it is the lotus that is seen on posters

By your logic, Indian Christians revertd to Hinduism as per this image
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-d-OPHQHR9ZQ/Unk1x ... imgmax=800

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 04 May 2014 02:18

TonySoprano wrote:Modi never was pro-Hindutva. He demolished so many Hindu temples ruthlessly in Gujarat to make way for roads. Soon BJP will become like Khangressi B-team. I too was disappointed when the bhagwa lotus became white. Trust me Modi is going to be a second ABV2, nothing less, nothing more.

I am sure you should happy with him destroying temples. What is this fake concern about Hindus? ABV2 will be fantastic, IMO.

member_24042 · Post by **member_24042** » 04 May 2014 02:19

pankajs wrote:Saars if Modi or any other BJP leader is unable to unite the Hindus none of your dream projects are going to be implemented. CON and its clones have handed the Muslims a virtual veto. The first goal is to make mandal politics irrelevant and that requires steady and non controversial BJP government. Modi has repeatedly stressed the latter and it remains his goal. So why is it a surprise that he does not touch upon controversial topics?

Great so Hindus and Buddhists will continue to decrease demographically until our netas think standing for their rights is non-controversial. When will discussing our plight be non-controversial? When we Dharmics are a minority!?! In all his interviews, he has not once mentioned the plights of Hindus or came in defense for their cause. Its just development and good governance. Hell even in Kashi in front of the Kashi Vishwanath temple and stupid Gyanvapi mosque, he did not once utter name of Shiva. I understand its political pressure but it seems to me he is bending over too much backward to placate the Marxist-Missionary-Mulah types.

member_24042 · Post by **member_24042** » 04 May 2014 02:20

sivab wrote:
TonySoprano wrote:Modi never was pro-Hindutva. He demolished so many Hindu temples ruthlessly in Gujarat to make way for roads. Soon BJP will become like Khangressi B-team. I too was disappointed when the bhagwa lotus became white. Trust me Modi is going to be a second ABV2, nothing less, nothing more.
I am sure you should happy with him destroying temples. What is this fake concern about Hindus? ABV2 will be fantastic, IMO.

I am not going to explain my position to you again you troll.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 04 May 2014 02:21

muraliravi wrote: So the Christianization of BJP is going on in full swing, there is only one party in NDA that has the guts to ask BJP openly about this covert agenda and that is Shiv Sena. I hope they ask all these smart .... in bjp publicly "if white means peace, what does saffron mean??"

Oh hey look. http://www.religionfacts.com/christiani ... colors.htm

They're apparently using Black, Blue, Grey, Green, Brown, Purple, Red and White. I suppose you want that to be out as well? What next no use of black lettering? "Black is symbolic of death, and is therefore the liturgical color for Good Friday". Henceforth it must all be in saffron, background, lettering, borders and all.

This has to be the most silly form of 'more katar than thou". It beggars belief when people then complain about the west stealing ayurveda and yoga. This painting into a corner and asking for some obscure purity is a reflexive defense mechanism. An attempt to preserve some aspect of culture when under complete siege. The way some muslim women now voluntarily wear a burkha. To achieve any kind of aggressive hinduism you actually have to have some confidence in yourself. The ability to step into another area and act like you own it.

You ask what Modi has done for Hindus. What is he supposed to do for them when they're so scared of their own shadows. Being able to use the entirety of the color spectrum in documents might be a good first step.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 04 May 2014 02:21

TonySoprano wrote: I am not going to explain my position to you again you troll.

Pot calling kettle...

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 04 May 2014 02:22

Calm down folks. The entire thing of lotus to be white was driven by cadre only. They wanted to show it exactly as on evm during the time of elections. They even requested to put it consistent across all the fb pages too. Just relax and get back to regular programming. It is only few days to go.