Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

[vivek.rao]

a lot of people are doing that this time and they'll go back to Cong., the moment any of the Hindutva issues are uttered by Modi.

This I feel is quite true, the wave is a vote for change as people are fed up with the current government not delivering, interpreting it as a hindutva wave is erroneous logic, that concept died with the 2004 elections. It will be for the better if BJP transforms into a secular party and deliver on good governance to make it win each election for the foreseeable future and the larger good of India. All other issues are sidebar to the goals that average Indians care about.

What is secular party?

Fight with SP,BSP,CONGis to promise more and more concessions to Muslims?

Tell Hindus to shut up when the readicalized Muslim groups attack temples and riot?

Shelter IM terrorists in MLA/MP quarters?

Don't let Police arrest IM terrorist because it offends Muslim sentiment?

Create Caste/Religious votebanks and promise Muslims that their accuse will never be touched by Police while they riot?

Touch one illegal Bangladeshi Muslim. I will cut your hands off thunders WB CM. Instead you can Kill/kick out as many Indian Hindus form BWB if they are from Bihar/UP she says. Should BJP follow her policies?

This is called inclusive and secular by 99% of PAIDMEDIA and CON/LEFT/CASTIEST parties.

Is that what you want BJP to become?

[geeth]

"If people had voted for Hindutva alone, then BJP should have won the previous two elections irrespective of development concerns. But they did not, why ? ""

They lost precisely because of loss of Hindutva votes to "Jinnah Secular" Vadi and Atal kangress Vadi. The stark difference more apparant when we see Namo Campaigning now.

Counter question..was "India shining campaign" Hindutvavaadi? If not, whynot they won?

[SRoy]

If avg people don't care about Hindhuthva/ideology, then whats the problem if there is pro-Hindhuthva policies? Is it being suggested that people will vote against the party if it tries to implement pro-Hindhuthva policies? But, this is against the suggestion that people don't care for ideologies? So, is it being suggested that people actually are against Hindhuthva and are voting to BJP despite that? I think people are projecting their own bias on to the voting masses. People in riot hit areas know exactly what they are voting for. People who are having trouble with increasing non-Hindhu religions know exactly what they are voting for. People who see mosques and churces sprouting all over the place know exactly what they are voting for. People who see illegal immigration being unpunished(or even facilitated) know exactly what they are voting for.

Anyway, this theme keeps repeating again and again: Hindhuthva will hinder development. Someone please explain to me, exactly how Hindhuthva policies will hinder development policies. If Hindhuthva policies don't hinder development, then why create this fake choice that people have to choose between hindhuthva or development?

BJP's ideology is Hindhuthva. It has talked about development. If people elect BJP, then it means people are buying Hindhuthva + development.(not just development and not just hindhuthva but Hindhuthva + development).

sirji,

I would request that you think over the following and make a post in the appropriate thread.

First and foremost I don't think anyone is saying that development and Hindutav are mutually exclusive. For driving Hindutva you need 272+ own your own and it will not come from saffron dhotis like us alone. You'll have to take in fence sitter on some topics and detox them slowly. So, Hindutva alone will not get you political power.

I believe within the Hindutva agenda there topics that can be divided into active and passive list.

Freeing up of temples, freedom for Hindu orgs to run their educational institutes and similar are passive topics. They do not impact any community outside the Hindu society. If Mullahs or EJs oppose, then it will be open for the larger Hindu society to see for themselves and decide accordingly. The secularism concept itself will come under question.

On the other hand there are topics which affects the so-called minorities. UCC, anti-conversion, RJB etc. If they are implemented first the affected communities will cry foul and the Hindu fence sitters will be manipulated with "We told you so" lament by the sold out media.

The passive list does not require a broad approval from all and sundry. They are internal issues to Hindus. As an added benefit it will draw out all manner of anti-Hindus out in public to cure upper / middle class Hindus of secularitis.

Finally on BD infiltrator issue.
Either say openly that only the M BD's will be deported because they have a country carved out for themselves solely on theological basis or do not raise the topic at all in public.
I do not think the intent is obvious to all Bengalis, due to the experience of last deportation drive.
From my own experience in NCR, not only were all lower class Bengalis targeted, the local population there itself thinks that all the Bengali speaking maids, rickshaw puller, laborers etc. are BD infiltrators.

[Bade]

The 2004 loss has been attributed due to over promise "shinning.." and people not buying it, in the next two cycles BJP had no development plank, except for the core philosophy that is attributed as Hindutva. It may not have actively projected it, but that does not mean it was absent as the claim is it is still a Hindutva party. Has anyone disputed that from the BJP. The point is it still did not win.

This time due to bad governance of the current govt, there is a good chance to win for the BJP. Talking to neutral apolitical voters give me that feeling.

[krishnan]

Retweeted by AbkiBaarModiSarkar
Smriti Z Irani ‏@smritiirani 19m

Khabar mili ki saree, chappal, ghadi baatne se fursat mili to kuch log raat ko Munshiganj guest house mein pradhano ko bula rahein hain.

[Bade]

.....
Is that what you want BJP to become?

Simple answer, no definitely not !

[KLP Dubey]

All this talk about "changing into a secular party" etc etc is futile.

I will say it again, and Shri Modi has said it many times, read the party manifesto. It defines exactly the direction of the party for the next 5 years at least. People cannot just project their own desires and fantasies and expect them to be fulfilled.

There was plenty of time to send in suggestions earlier when the manifesto was being prepared. Now it is done and published. If somebody has a big problem with what is in there, then don't vote for NDA.

[Shanmukh]

The 2004 loss has been attributed due to over promise "shinning.." and people not buying it, in the next two cycles BJP had no development plank, except for the core philosophy that is attributed as Hindutva. It may not have actively projected it, but that does not mean it was absent as the claim is it is still a Hindutva party. Has anyone disputed that from the BJP. The point is it still did not win.

Are you joking? BJP had dumped every bit of Hindutva in 1999 itself, to form the government. Do you think people are idiots that they will keep voting for a party that promises Hindutva and does nothing? What did BJP do in early 2000s when VHP tried to build the temple at Ayodhya? In fact, most BJP volunteers will tell you that from 1999 onwards, there was no difference between the Narasimha Rao Congress and Vajpayee Congress, sorry BJP. The collapse of the BJP in UP can be directly tied to the collapse of the BJP credibility on all Hindutva issues (if BJP is as timid as others about Hindutva, what is the difference between the BJP and the Congress? BJP cadres and voters stayed home, Congress won).

This time due to bad governance of the current govt, there is a good chance to win for the BJP. Talking to neutral apolitical voters give me that feeling.

This time, BJP might scrape through, mainly because cadres are backing NaMo to the hilt. Your neutral, apolitical voters are the most undependable kind, who tweet and offer gratuitous advice to BJP about development and secularism, and are missing when it comes to voting, or shamelessly choose caste factors while voting. And in any case, even getting these `neutral, apolitical voters' to the booth requires a committed effort by the BJP cadres to get them to the booth (try volunteering for the BJP in an urban constituency, and you will find out what I mean). The BJP lives and dies by the cadres. If cadres solidly back the BJP agenda AND candidate, the candidate has a chance. Otherwise, it will lose.

[johneeG]

Bade,
what exactly is hindhuthva according to you?
how are you concluding that people are not voting for Hindhuthva?
how do you know that people will turn against if Hindhuthva policies are followed?

1) I need not answer that as it does not matter what I think it is.
2) If people had voted for Hindutva alone, then BJP should have won the previous two elections irrespective of development concerns. But they did not, why ?
3) Frankly, I do not know if they will turn against Hindutva, if development is delivered above expectations by a BJP govt. On the other hand if that does not happen and only the Hindutva card is used and talked about, then winning consecutive elections becomes a problem.

Of course, we will have to go through a few election cycles to know the truth, till then it is just speculation and I will grant you that.

You are saying that people don't vote only for Hindhuthva because BJP did not win in 2004 and 2009.

First, did BJP go to elections in 2004 or 2009 on Hindhuthva plank or development plank? As far as I can remember, BJP went to elections on non-Hindhuthva issues. Advani regretted Babri demolition in 2009. In 2004, it was India shining campaign. Yet, BJP lost. What does that mean?

In 2014, BJP projects Modi who is accused by all his opponents of being a Hindhuthva hitler. Yet, Modi is winning(apparently). What does that mean? BJP came to national scene with Raam Janma Bhoomi movement. Even now, BJP seems to be doing very well in UP(which is the key state in elections) due to the riots.

You are saying that people are voting for development and don't care for Hindhuthva.
If that is the case, then the people will not care when the Hindhuthva issues are implemented.

You are saying that if there is no development and only Hindhuthva, then the people may turn against.
Well, your original claim was that people were voting for development and therefore BJP should abandon Hindhuthva. Now, you are saying that if development is not implemented people will turn against.

Anyway, this whole debate between Hindhuthva vs development is misplaced because BJP is going with Hindhuthva + development as its agenda. This combination is seen throughout its campaign. So, people who claim that votes are coming only for development are wrong just as people who claim that votes are coming only for Hindhuthva. Votes are coming for development + hindhuthva. Therefore, the expectations will also be on both development and hindhuthva.

Those people who voted for BJP for the sake of development will not mind Hindhuthva. Those people who voted for BJP for the sake of Hindhuthva will cheer development. Those people who mind Hindhuthva, do not vote for BJP even if it talks development. Most of the Hindhuthva fans will also cheer development angle.

But, you didn't even answer the basic question: what is hindhuthva according to you?
On one hand you want to talk about Hindhuthva(you even give advice that BJP should drop Hindhuthva), on the other hand, you don't even want to specify what is Hindhuthva?

If any policy is termed 'Hindhuthva', some people will oppose it. If the same policy is termed 'secular', they will support it. Is uniform civil code, Hindhuthva or secular? Is acting against illegal immigration, secular or hindhuthva? Is preventing foreign funding, secular or Hindhuthva? Is removing art 370, Hindhuthva or secular? Is removing the control of secular sarkaar over Hindhu temples, secular or Hindhuthva?

Basically, what is your definition of secularism? If your definition of secularism is same as chacha's, then anything that helps Bhaarath will be termed as Hindhuthva only.

----
Bade,
Just read your latest post and your logic seems to be:
if BJP wins, it is despite Hindhuthva.
if BJP loses, it is because of Hindhuthva.
...either way, Hindhuthva is a villain.

But, if BJP can win despite Hindhuthva, then why should BJP give up Hindhuthva and become secular? Where is the need for BJP to give up Hindhuthva? Is it BJP's need or your desire?

It seems to me that you are a kongi supporter and are hoping that lotus becomes like kongis. What you are unable to understand is that if the lotus becomes like kongis, then they will indeed become like kongis onlee. So, do you really want lotus to become kongis?

Here is a question to you: why was development not provided by the secular establishments in last 60 years? Why couldn't they do it? Is it failure of secular governments or is it the failure of secularism?

[vic]

Nagesh is right, the shock defeat of BJP in 2004 was because Sangh Cadre rebelled against Congress culture introduced into BJP and Muslim appeasement by Advani.

[Bade]

JohneeG, I cannot disagree with a lot of what you have said about development vs. hindutva, the right proportion of which is hard to fixate on and elections will decide that. I personally have no issues living under a hindutva regime or a secular regime as is understood by many. There isn't a need to delve into meanings of these two categories here in this thread. Whatever the regime, the average people want development, because without it each of these philosophies have little meaning to their daily lives.

When I made the secular party makeover comment, it is because a lot of Hindus who are not "secular" as understood (pandering to minorities etc) still vote for secular parties like Congress. It is for BJP to win over these voters. The other minorities who vote for so called secular parties may never vote for BJP. But Hindus are still 80% of the population, so there lies an anomaly for the BJP. If BJP wins successive elections on whatever plank is highlighted in the manifesto, then it does become apparent what works the best. But losing successive elections does not bring it closer to its core goals either. It has to do what it takes to win now to remain in the game. Modi may be doing just that for the BJP.

[Bade]

Here is a question to you: why was development not provided by the secular establishments in last 60 years? Why couldn't they do it? Is it failure of secular governments or is it the failure of secularism?

This failure has more to do with a closed economy than any core philosophy.

[Lilo]

BJP is winning today because the core (sangh) mobilized for this fight bigtime (they didnt in 2004,and never in 2009(lead by infamous Djinnahrjuna Advani) - read the caravan artecal posted by Atri garu.

This time the politically correct issue(vocalized for media soundbites etc) is "Development and Good Governance", Actual nonPC reason drawing people to BJP is perceived "Hindutva"ness associated to Modi's character and persona - and this exponentially increased its outreach .

Heck most on twitter rooting and actively campaigning in their circles(network effects) and ground are Hindutva types if one carefully peels their onions.They may use the Development and Goodgovernance lingo to campaign among neutrals but converted eventually endorse the Hindutva issues - because once on BJP side their eyes are suddenly opened to facts of life hitherto suppressed by sikularist paid media.
They even appropriated the "Internet Hindus" term highlighting their Hindu identity.
(This term itself is originally coined as a derogatory reference by sikularists)

Many have #HDL(hindu defence league tags in their profile name - AFAIK this was started by hindutvavaadis in Tulunad now being increasingly appropriated by rest of Hindu BJP supporters).
Many have gods and goddesses in their display pics and have hindutva bylines(in profile description).

This campaign with out a doubt is driven by a Hindutva undercurrent.

English media(especially electronic media) - though it carters to <1%, used to wield its disproportionate agenda setting capacity for middle class (keeping them morose on sikular koolaid).And middle class sets the agenda of a nation and its role has only grown with time.

Now this role has been usurped by social media from the sikularist paidmedia (most "generally politically active" on social media are predominantly hindutvavaadi) .

BJP better keepup the morale of its campaigners if it wants to keep them around for their next reelection attempt in 2019(including the 2 dozen state elections in between).

[geeth]

Deleted

[Supratik]

The 2004 loss has been attributed due to over promise "shinning.." and people not buying it, in the next two cycles BJP had no development plank, except for the core philosophy that is attributed as Hindutva. It may not have actively projected it, but that does not mean it was absent as the claim is it is still a Hindutva party. Has anyone disputed that from the BJP. The point is it still did not win.

This time due to bad governance of the current govt, there is a good chance to win for the BJP. Talking to neutral apolitical voters give me that feeling.

The 2004 loss had been attributed to "Godhra riots" by "secular experts". 90% of India does not vote on TV campaigns. If that was the case Modi should get two seats in 2014. The explanation is what nagesh has pointed out. The cadre did not work for Vajpayee as there was no progress on core issues and his Govt was a more efficient version of the Congress. BJP w/o Hindutva is like CPI-M w/o Communism. I personally don't have a problem with secularism in the constitution but there are clearly issues affecting the Hindu community that needs to be addressed and the so-called "seculars" have either contributed to it or ignored it. If you ignore the concerns of 80% of the population you are simply not going to rule India particularly in the future when more and more people get out of casteism. You are, however, right about economy and development. The NDA between 1998-2004 and Modi in Gujrat has shown that they are interested in making India a developed nation. I have not seen any such vision in the Congress. And the left and regional parties with some exceptions are even worse.

[geeth]

When I made the secular party makeover comment, it is because a lot of Hindus who are not "secular" as understood (pandering to minorities etc) still vote for secular parties like Congress. It is for BJP to win over these voters.

They are the deracinated lot who worship the white skin and find fault with anything Indian..It is easier to convert a hard core Thalibani than these lot. They will always find reasons not to vote for BJP. No point in trying..I am telling from personal experience..my father feels the rosy cheeks of pappu is anyday better than white beard of NaMo! Fed up I say

[AjitK]

On Bihar: https://twitter.com/iamnarendranath

1-नीतीश के बीजेपी से अलग होने के बाद ऐसे आसार बने कि आरजेडी-कांग्रेस-एलजेपी,जेडीयू और बीजेपी आपस में लड़ेगी। तीनों के चांस बनेंगे
2- आरजेडी के पास लालू,जेडीयू के पास नीतीश का चेहरा था।बीजेपी को मोदी के सहारे उतरना मजबूरी था और उरते भी। चुनाव पूरे जातीय समीकरण पर होने थे
3-नीतीश का गणित था कि महादलित,ओबीसी और कुछ मुस्लिम वोट के सहारे सम्माजनक कुनबा बचाने में सफल रह जाएंगे। तीनों के वोट मिल जाएं तो संभव भी था
4- बीजेपी का गणित था कि नरेन्द्र मोदी के नाम पर ओबीसी,सर्वण और चुके हुए लालू से यादव वोट खींचकर बिहार फतह कर लेंगे
5-मोदी ने यादव वोट पर टारगेट किया,इस क्रम में लालू पर उन्होंने तीखे हमले नहीं किये। लालू ने बदले में तीखा हमला किया।लालू अडवांटेज में रहे
6- चुनाव जैसे-जैसे करीब आया यादव-मुस्लिम लालू के साथ आ गये,बीजेपी सवर्ण, दलित वोट के सहारे आगे बढ़ने लगी।नीतीश लड़ाई में लगातार दूर होते गये
7-चूंकि फील्ड से यादव-मुस्लिम के अग्रेसिव वोटिंग की खबर आई अचानक बिहार से हवा बदलने आई। यह आंशिक रूप से सही भी है।
8- जो बिहार में रहते हैं वह जानते हैं कि यादव-मुस्लिम थोक में वोटिंग करते रहे हैं।इसे लालू लहर कहा गया मोदी लहर से भारी साबित होगा
9-कुछ सीटों पर जहां आरजेडी-बीजेपी की लडाई कांटे की थी,जेडीयू के लोकल उममीदवार ने ऊपरी शह से लालू के पक्ष में अपरोक्ष रूप से मैदान छोड दिया
10-लेकिन लालू के काट में बीजेपी ने भी हिंदु वोट को बहुत हद तक पोलराइज्ड करन में सफलता पा ली। कुछ जगह निश्चित हार को बचाने में सफल हो गये
11- वोटिंग पैर्टन इस कदर से उलझी कि सारे अनुमान-ट्रेंड एक तरफ हो गये और बिहार की गणनाा नये सिरे से होने लगी। हर कोई नया अर्थ निकालने लगा
12-यहीं मोदी लहरबीजेपी के लिए संजीवनी बनी।मोदी न होते तो बीजेपी की हालत नीतीश सी होती। माइनस यादव,हिंदुओं का वोट मोदी के नाम पर मिल गया
13-हालत यह है कि बाकी के 13 सीटों में मोदी-लालू में जो कुनबा अपने वोट बैंक का अधिक उपयोग करेगा,अडवांटेज में वही रहेगा।
14- इन बार-बार बदलती परिस्थिति में तीन कारणों से लालू-मोदी की सीधी लड़ाई में मोदी को अडवांटेज दे रहा हूं। अधिक सीट जीत सकते हैं मोदी।
15-ए-बेहतर कैडर बी-मोदी के पीएम बनने के चांस सी-पटनाब्लास्ट ने मोदी को अडवांटेज दिया और वे लालू से थोड़ आगे नजर आ रहे हैं
16-अंत में कई सीटों पर अंतिम बॉल पर फैसले वाली सीन है। अत: अपने स्टैंड पर कायम,लेकिन परिणाम बदले तो हैरान नहीं हूंगा,हार स्वीकार कर लूंगा
17- मैंने एनडीए 25,यूपीए 15 की बात कही थी। कायम हूं। एक-दो सीट के फेरबदल की चांस हमेशा बनी रहती है। और मुझे इसके लिए कोई पैसे नहीं मिले हैं
बिहार में आपको वोटर एक लाइन में कहेगा-नीतीश ने अच्छा काम किया है।इस बार मोदी को वोट देंगे।बाद में फिर नीतीश को देंगे जब उनका दिमाग ठंडा होगा
नीतीश कुमार भले बिहार में एतिहासिक पराजय झेलने की दिशा में हैं लेकिन उनकी "राजनीतिक श्रद्धाजंलि"लिखने की हड़बड़ी में न रहें। वह वापसी करेंगे

[johneeG]

JohneeG, I cannot disagree with a lot of what you have said about development vs. hindutva, the right proportion of which is hard to fixate on and elections will decide that. I personally have no issues living under a hindutva regime or a secular regime as is understood by many. There isn't a need to delve into meanings of these two categories here in this thread. Whatever the regime, the average people want development, because without it each of these philosophies have little meaning to their daily lives.

When I made the secular party makeover comment, it is because a lot of Hindus who are not "secular" as understood (pandering to minorities etc) still vote for secular parties like Congress. It is for BJP to win over these voters. The other minorities who vote for so called secular parties may never vote for BJP. But Hindus are still 80% of the population, so there lies an anomaly for the BJP. If BJP wins successive elections on whatever plank is highlighted in the manifesto, then it does become apparent what works the best. But losing successive elections does not bring it closer to its core goals either. It has to do what it takes to win now to remain in the game. Modi may be doing just that for the BJP.

Saar,
in any other country, many of the issues that are portrayed as Hindhuthva would be considered as nationalistic or just common sense. For example, illegal immigration, foreign funds, art 370, ...etc. But, they are supposedly Hindhuthva. This is very important to understand. Once you understand this point properly then you would actually understand what secularism and Hindhuthva seem to mean.

Coming to the point that some Hindhus are 'secular' and to win them BJP has to give up Hindhuthva. Well, the first question to ask is 'isn't it strange that Hindhus are secular?'. It is ironic. Because how can Hindhus be secular unless Hindhuism is same as secularism. If Hindhusim is same as secularism, then, people should not have problem with Hindhu raaj. So, the question is 'how did some Hindhus become secular?' This is another important question.

This has happened over the years due to many factors on ground. And when those factors are removed, the curious phenomenon described by you will not happen. So, BJP has to remove those factors that make certain Hindhus oppose Hindhuthva for BJP to maximize its electoral success.

What are those factors?
a) media: leftist journos and foreign funding
b) tackling foreign funding and associated conversions.
c) education syllabus with leftist bias. Education universities with leftist establishment. Convent schools which make the Hindhu kids pray in churches.
d) lack of exposure to Hindhuism for Hindhus. That means strengthening Hindhu structure which means strengthening temples i.e. removing temples from govt control and placing them in some hindhu democratic system.
e) Movies and popular culture. For this, it needs to patronize and promote the right people.

If BJP follows these tactics(it is actually undoing the tactics of previous regimes) then Hindhus will not be opposed to BJP's ideology. Infact, those Hindhus who are opposed to BJP's ideology are already under a certain brainwashing i.e. macualyte education and nehruvian secularism. The above 40 group seem to be exposed to this for a longer time and find it harder to get rid of. Compared to that, the under 40 have easier time.

Here is a question to you: why was development not provided by the secular establishments in last 60 years? Why couldn't they do it? Is it failure of secular governments or is it the failure of secularism?

This failure has more to do with a closed economy than any core philosophy.

Secularism and socialism were inserted into constitution at the same time. Those who followed secularism followed socialism also. BJP also talked about socialism. Yet, there was development under BJP, but not under others, why?

Even now, the economy has been open for a long time now, yet the economy is doing very badly. Why? If the open economy was enough, then why is not there a development?

I think you are unable to understand what secularism means and how it is used.

Rome was declared as secular by Constantine. After a few decades, it became a Christian country. Then, it was dark ages. Rome did very well under Pagan kings. It was secular and developed. But it all changed. Why? In christian dark ages, Europe was neither secular nor developed. When the development did come, it came by exploiting the pagans of the rest of the world through colonialism. Now that colonialism has ended, the development also seems to have stopped or is on the roll back.

[harbans]

BJP is this time getting a lot of votes not just for development and good governance but also smashing the Pseudo-Secular plank. It also is helpful lot of people finding merit and understanding vote/ caste bank politics is keeping them poor. This is the result of hard education all along the campaign trail by Modi ji. THe main planks thus getting huge votes are:

1. Gujarat model: Development/ good governance
2. Bijlee/ Paani promise. Not free but quality 24x7.
3. Screwing Pseudo Secular politics: People are understanding this part very well all over.
4. Rising above overt caste based considerations is getting a lot of respect for this campaign.
5. Massive anti-incumbency due to scams/corruption etc.

Every one of these Modi has delivered to a large extent in Gujarat and is confident in doing so for India. These would summarize the real reasons that people are voting and rooting for Modi in very large numbers.

[kmkraoind]

This photo is floating in Twitter and it shows how poor EC and state govts are taking care of Jawans who are on poll duty. No doubt the space is very cramped, but this Jawan who is sleeping while sitting with his neck leaning back has made my eyes a litter wetter. What worse is, if it a school, them imagine where they will go for early morning rituals. I think many of CRPF and BSF guys are doing a job that gets no thanks to them at all. Salute to all those Jawans.

[ramana]

We have OT thread just for this reason. Bade you should have made use of that faciity and not led to derailment.
All, Anyway no more continuation in this thread.

[Kati]

@SRoy, what's the ground in WB? Will BJP get 4/42? What's your take based on latest?

WB 4/42 is quite a possibility. But the ground report says that TMC is now most fearful of BJP taking a large chunk of its voteshare, and hence resortedto unprecedented rigging. The entire Srerampore-Konnogar-Hindmotor-Uttarpara area (all coming under Srerampore seat) are the Hindu refugees from
East Pakistan (from 1941 till 1974/75) - including my mother's side - and hence very prone to Hindu feelings/Hindu refugee protection. They would vote for Modi in a flip. Bappida had a great chance, but after 12 o' clock on Apr. 30th TMC resorted to heavy rigging.

[RajeshA]

For driving Hindutva you need 272+ own your own and it will not come from saffron dhotis like us alone. You'll have to take in fence sitter on some topics and detox them slowly. So, Hindutva alone will not get you political power.

Let's say Modi govt. is a coalition of Hindutva agenda and Vikās & Surāj agenda. Coalition of Secular parties and Development politics has obviously not been able to deliver!

So here is the deal: Those who want development and good governance from Hindutva would get that. But they should also accept that Hindutva has a bigger agenda.

The rhetoric one hears is that those who are voting Modi for development and good governance are somehow doing some favor on Hindutva. They are not. They would be getting something in return. They may have voted Modi for development and good governance, but they should consider that there are also millions who too have voted for Modi and they have done so with Hindutva in mind. They too deserve consideration by the next govt.

[SwamyG]

Yah ground reports say BJP will win 400 seats, keep believing in that. every election these ground reports of yours seem to be way ahead of actual results and yet you want to believe that, what can i do. We will meet again on may 16. I again repeat, BJP on its own will not cross 210 seats in the wildest of its dreams. Cong will not get less than 100 seats whatever happens.

I dont want to retort to your stupid logic on deporting BD's, fencing work was zilch when they were in power.

BJP alone getting 210 seats is good. That number is almost 100 more than what they got in 2009. All credit to Modi and his team. Thanks to the oldie and incompetent BJP that did not capitalize on the follies of Congress and UPA. 'The Lost Decade' will not only be known as the decade when Congress pushed India towards the cliff by missing opportunities, but it will be known for BJP sitting on its buttocks not doing enough to grow. Having 3 or so states in its pockets is not good enough for a national party. If BJP wished to see 272+ on its own! it should have done something more.

When I censure BJP it is not supporters and cadres, but the top leadership. Hats off to Modi for bringing the country and BJP this far. He can do only so much against his own party, congress, MSM and NGO nexus.

The dynamics of the country has changed where regional parties are here to stay and will pocket 10-15 seats in some big states. A national party is not fighting 543 seats but some where about 443 seats. So in my books, 210 is almost 50% and a good showing. 250 on its own would be awesome. 272+ is earth engulfing tsunamo.

[R_Kumar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xphsq1CWmho
Modi clearly said Election Commissioner is working for Congress. Watch at 18:00 m onwards

[Arunkumar]

If ChapraEC (chaprasis of EC) doesnt take cognizance of modi's complaint regarding wb , what are the probable scenario post may-16. It would be interesting since modi has clearly said bds would be pushed back post may-16. So a repoll if ordered would be with a signifacant population of bds absent.

[Kati]

I'm missing B. Raman-garu very much with whom I used to share opinion.
On many occasions, while sharing news about Indo-BD border, I suggested two important things, apart from other measures:

1. Pass a law making it a crime to employ/vouch/help any illegal immigrant who is entering Bharat for economic benefits only. (Mind it - I'm excluding refugees who are fleeing religious persecutions.)
This may deter, to some extent, the local secular politicians to vouch for faithfools from getting rationcards, voter cards, etc. Also, potential employers will think twice.
(There is a loopholes though: I know many muslim illegal migrants taking up hindu names and getting settled happily - at least initially. But they made be made to bring witnesses to vouch for their identity.)

2. About BSF and border management: Rotate BSF more frequently before they get compromised by the local smugglers. Always post about one-third female personnel. Place flood lights along the border. In desolate areas make a deep ditch next to the fence on the Indian side, and mobilize local RSS/VHP people discreetly as eyes and ears for border management. particularly, in meghalaya-Assam-Tripura-Mizoram side recruit the personnel from the local tribes who are seeing their population diluted due to illegal migrations.

...Anyway, any one visiting the Indo-BD border in South24 Parganas/north 24 Parganas districts will see the pathetic condition. ichamati river forms the boundary for many many kilometers. Not a single BSF patrol boat/platoon can be found on a given day (they are too busy drinking in their camps). it is just a miracle that Bharat is not getting run over by BD migrants.

3. Latest BD migration is taking place along the east-coast. The faithfools are entering through Sundarban area and dispersing as far as odisha coast. Over the last two decades these BD faithfools have settled in Odisha in thousands, acquired local identity cards, and now form a sizeable votebank whom Naveenbabu was trying to woo by distancing himself from BJP......


NaMo will have a tough job ahead. I'll be more than happy to help him at the ground-zero level with my local contacts. Please convey this message to him.

[Bade]

We have OT thread just for this reason. Bade you should have made use of that faciity and not led to derailment.
All, Anyway no more continuation in this thread.

If you do not want me to participate in this thread you can say so, rather than accuse me of thread derailment.

[SwamyG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xphsq1CWmho
Modi clearly said Election Commissioner is working for Congress. Watch at 18:00 m onwards

Usually losers bring attention to such things. Why is Modi bringing up this now? What is the plan?

[Rahul M]

polling is not completed yet.

[Sridhar]

For driving Hindutva you need 272+ own your own and it will not come from saffron dhotis like us alone. You'll have to take in fence sitter on some topics and detox them slowly. So, Hindutva alone will not get you political power.

Let's say Modi govt. is a coalition of Hindutva agenda and Vikās & Surāj agenda. Coalition of Secular parties and Development politics has obviously not been able to deliver!

So here is the deal: Those who want development and good governance from Hindutva would get that. But they should also accept that Hindutva has a bigger agenda.

The rhetoric one hears is that those who are voting Modi for development and good governance are somehow doing some favor on Hindutva. They are not. They would be getting something in return. They may have voted Modi for development and good governance, but they should consider that there are also millions who too have voted for Modi and they have done so with Hindutva in mind. They too deserve consideration by the next govt.

Then why don't you (as in those millions who think they are voting for him because they want him to advance the Hindutva agenda) force him to say that? In this whole campaign, he has been largely silent about that, and even when specifically asked, has said that the focus is on development. If his agenda is truly that of development AND Hindutva, let him be clear about that. Then, what you say is correct. If not, it would be a case for deception, to appeal for votes on an agenda of governance and development, and then after the election tag on other issues on which the mandate was never sought. Complaining later about his not delivering on the Hindutva issues would be a case of sour grapes.

The problem, though, is that if he does say that his agenda is governance and Hindutva, he would not win the election. Hence many who are voting for him because they want the Hindutva agenda advanced exactly want such deception. They want him to do things that he not just did not fight on, but rather his campaign hinted and even explicitly said in some cases were on the back burner. The question is whether that is a recipe for long term success? And whether Modi is comfortable with being front and center of this deception? So far he has shown no inclination of being so.

[vivek.rao]

Neha Srivastava ‏@neha_aks 6m
OMG! "@atanubhuyan: Tarun Gogoi starts new scheme to protect minorities. To provide arms and arms training. But is it a viable solution?”

Another Ambani/Adani agent

bhupendra chaubey ‏@bhupendrachaube 2h
First day of journey through eastern UP: name "MODI" reverberating thru remotest villages. #UPinsight @ibnlive

When NaMO acts like a PM of all Indians not just of Muslims, this is what happens

Sujnan Nayak ‏@SujnanNayak 18m
@jitengajaria @Sootradhar I personally know NCP karyakartas who have voted NaMo this time in Mumbai

[gandharva]

[Sidd]

polling is not completed yet.

Counting is not over yet.

[muraliravi]

Kati sir,

Pranaams. I have your email id from our conversation maybe 5 years back. Will put u in touch with one core modi team member. Please help them

Thanks

Murali

[RamaY]

If avg people don't care about Hindhuthva/ideology, then whats the problem if there is Hindutva?

Exactly the point. 90% society is just intellectual dhimmis/slaves of the state. They will believe/follow the state as long as the state gives them prosperity, opportunity & liberty.

Give them what they want first and name it whatever you want.

Abki Bar Modi Sarkar!

[Abhijit]

what you say is correct. If not, it would be a case for deception, to appeal for votes on an agenda of governance and development, and then after the election tag on other issues on which the mandate was never sought.

Why this Agni-pariksha for bjp only Saar? For 60 years congress has claimed 'secular' appeal for votes and has switched effortlessly to an egregious anti-Hindu interpretation of its mandate. To paraphrase lord srikrishna when he asked karna (as karna was appealing to arjuna's sense of dharma while trying to extricate his chariot wheel) "where was your dharma then?"

[vic]

Hindutva agenda is strongly aligned with Development, progress and social reform. Advani wanted to ditch Sangh Parivaar and tried to use operation Parakaram and Muslim appeasement to win in 2004. But dhobi ka kutta na ghar ka na ghatt ka. No political leader in his right mind ever gives up his core constituency but Advani proved the adage vipreet kaale mand buddhi.

[Shanmukh]

Then why don't you (as in those millions who think they are voting for him because they want him to advance the Hindutva agenda) force him to say that? In this whole campaign, he has been largely silent about that, and even when specifically asked, has said that the focus is on development. If his agenda is truly that of development AND Hindutva, let him be clear about that. Then, what you say is correct. If not, it would be a case for deception, to appeal for votes on an agenda of governance and development, and then after the election tag on other issues on which the mandate was never sought. Complaining later about his not delivering on the Hindutva issues would be a case of sour grapes.

Oh really? Did all our past governments go to the people with their genuine agenda? Did Nehru go to people saying that he was betraying national security and destroying the fighting effectiveness of the army? Did Indira Gandhi go to people with a proposal for Communist-isation of India, nationalisation of banks, and all the rest of it? Did she go through with the proposal to suspend national rights and impose emergency in the country? No? Then why this demand from the BJP?

The problem, though, is that if he does say that his agenda is governance and Hindutva, he would not win the election. Hence many who are voting for him because they want the Hindutva agenda advanced exactly want such deception. They want him to do things that he not just did not fight on, but rather his campaign hinted and even explicitly said in some cases were on the back burner. The question is whether that is a recipe for long term success? And whether Modi is comfortable with being front and center of this deception? So far he has shown no inclination of being so.

If Modi delivers on development and improves the lot of the poor, then it certainly will be a recipe for long terms success of his party. Among whom is Hindutva most prominent and popular? Among the rural poor? In the slums? Among the self made middle class, and the richer farmers? And if more and more of the poor, both urban and rural, start entering the middle class, becoming richer, why do you imagine that Hindutva will wane?

The is the deal that sec-lib scum are not telling the people. For their anti-Hindu agenda to succeed, Indians have to be dirt poor, so poor that they are dependent on government handouts and worried about their next meal and next day, that they will not have the time to think of anything else. Under the cover of this poverty, it is possible to destroy India once more, by dividing Hindus, using both Islamists and EJs. It is the same strategy used by Alauddin Khilji and Aurangzeb (refer to Jadunath Sarkar here). And are your sec-lib scum telling the people their agenda? No? Why not, may I ask?

[Sridhar]

So what you guys are saying is that Modi and by extension you are no different from Nehru or Indira Gandhi or the "sec-lib scum" you hate so deeply. Nice.