Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

M Joshi
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby M Joshi » 09 Dec 2013 19:03

Among all the things that are happening, what's baffling me the most is Anna Hazare's decision to sit on Jan Lokpal fast & his comments on TV that Kejri is an honest man, BJP & Congi are same, Kejri is a different non-corrupt honest option for people. Is this guy schizophrenic or something?

OTOH Vijay Goel just mentioned on CNBC to Ashutosh reporter guy that a certian section of media is hyping Kejri & downplaying or even belittling Modi as much as possible. Need to appreciate the guy's guts. Ashotosh was smug in his reply basically telling Vijay GOel that they can do what they want & thus will do what they want.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby manju » 09 Dec 2013 19:04

pankajs wrote:Janlokpal is long-term dilemma for AAP but how are they going to implement a simple promise like reducing the electricity bill by 50% in 30/60/90/<..> days? I haven't read their manifesto so substitute the appropriate promise period.

It is such simplistic promises that is going to kill them before Lok Sabha where they hope to make an impact. Electricity bill is easy to understand for Aam admi so difficult to fool him on that .. no? That is when the hollow sloganeering will be exposed and why government formation is being avoided by Farzi.



Need to rub points like these into the AAP fanbois

nachiket
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby nachiket » 09 Dec 2013 19:07

M Joshi wrote:Among all the things that are happening, what's baffling me the most is Anna Hazare's decision to sit on Jan Lokpal fast & his comments on TV that Kejri is an honest man, BJP & Congi are same, Kejri is a different non-corrupt honest option for people. Is this guy schizophrenic or something?

No, he is just naive. Kejriwal exploited Anna's agitation along with his clean image for his own benefit.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby member_20317 » 09 Dec 2013 19:07

Harshwardhan - Kejriwal ji we want to form minority sarkar and work on our agenda which is 30% reduction in electricity. We do not know how to reduce electricity bill by 50% and give 700 liters water in every home.
Kejriwal - No no we will give you jhadu we want 50% reduction and 700 liter water for every home.
Harshwardhan - @#$@#%

Harshwardhan - Kejriwal ji pls give us issue based outside support. Which means you support us reach at least 30% reduction in electricity bills.
Kejriwal - No no we will give you jhadu we got a mandate for jhadu phering on all BJP because BJP == Congress.
Harshwardhan - @#$@#%

Harshwardhan - Kejriwal ji then you make a government with outside issue based support from us.
Kejriwal - No no we will give you jhadu we got a mandate for jhadu phering on all BJP because BJP == Congress
Harshwardhan - @#$@#%

Harshwardhan - Kejriwal ji then you make a government with outside issue based support from Congress.
Kejriwal - No no we will give you jhadu we got a mandate for jhadu phering on all BJP because BJP == Congress
Harshwardhan - @#$@#%

Harshwardhan - Kejriwal ji then you form a minority sarkar
Kejriwal - No no, what if i win. How will I reduce electricity bill by 50% and give 700 liter water to every family. You will cry haram haram about me before the Delhi Public and I have to become PM now.
Harshwardhan - @#$@#%

Harshwardhan - Kejriwal ji then lets go for re-election rightaway
Kejriwal - No no, what if i win. How will I reduce electricity bill by 50% and give 700 liter water to every family. You will cry haram haram about me before the Delhi Public and I have to become PM now.
Harshwardhan - @#$@#%

Harshwardhan - Kejriwal ji then lets have president's rule in Delhi
Kejriwal - No no, the mandate is for you to form a minority sarkar.
Harshwardhan - @#$@#%
Last edited by member_20317 on 09 Dec 2013 19:10, edited 2 times in total.

muraliravi
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby muraliravi » 09 Dec 2013 19:08

nachiket wrote:
M Joshi wrote:Among all the things that are happening, what's baffling me the most is Anna Hazare's decision to sit on Jan Lokpal fast & his comments on TV that Kejri is an honest man, BJP & Congi are same, Kejri is a different non-corrupt honest option for people. Is this guy schizophrenic or something?

No, he is just naive. Kejriwal exploited Anna's agitation along with his clean image for his own benefit.


Sorry sir, I disagree. If anything he is even more sold out. All his opposition to khujliwal was just to gain attention. There is absolutely no reason why Anna Hazare or any of his minions got so much media coverage when the great rajiv dixit ji did not even get a 2 min mention in any MSM channel even after his death. All same coterie. BJP can no longer handle these guys with kid gloves. They need to unleash a full frontal attack on Anna, Khujliwal and use Baba Ramdev for this purpose. After all this Anna minion was propped up for mainly destroying baba ramdev's popularity.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Rahul M » 09 Dec 2013 19:16

meanwhile

holy ravioli, this is big.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/middl ... 9/1204792/

Middlemen's 'budget sheet' in Italy court refers to bureaucrats, 'AP', 'FAM' (Family)
Manu Pubby : New Delhi, Sun Dec 08 2013, 04:08 hrs Small Large Print
244G +3SU0Reddit0 1
Chopper dealThe document is in the hand of Swiss businessman Guido Haschke, who has confessed to having written it during a meeting with British middleman Christian Michel in 2008. PTI
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Italian prosecutors in the VVIP chopper deal have produced in court a "budget" drawn up by two key middlemen, which purportedly lists initials of Indian politicians and designations of bureaucrats, besides those of IAF officers, who it says would need to be "handled" for the deal to come through.

This is the first time that references to Indian officials other than IAF officers have figured in the investigations into the alleged corruption in the deal. No evidence has, however, surfaced yet to suggest payoffs were made to any of these individuals, either in accordance with this "budget" or otherwise.

The document is in the hand of Swiss businessman Guido Haschke, who has confessed to having written it during a meeting with British middleman Christian Michel in 2008. Prosecutors have presented it in court as a key piece of evidence to make the case that kickbacks of over 51 million euros were generated in the deal.

The note, which has been accessed by The Sunday Express, has three sections under which initials of politicians, designations of IAF personnel, and positions of bureaucrats respectively have been listed. Haschke has confessed in court that he drew up the list based on Michel's assessment of what would be needed for the "operation in India".

More evidence in the probe — the details of which were first reported by The Indian Express — is expected to be revealed in court in coming days.

Under the heading "POL" — Guido Haschke explained in court that this referred to Indian politicians — there are two references. One is to "AP" against which "3 million Euro" has been listed. The other is "FAM" — explained by Italian investigators in other documents as "Family" — against which "15/16 million Euro" has been listed. It is not clear if Haschke has explained in court what "AP" and "FAM" refer to.

Under the heading "BUR" — explained as "bureaucrats" in court by Haschke — six abbreviated designations have been listed. Five are key posts in the defence ministry — "DS", "JS AIR", "AFA", "DG Acquisition" and "another Gen". The sixth abbreviation in the list is "CVC". A total of "8.5 million Euro" has been "budgeted" under the "BUR" head.

Under the third heading "AF" (Air Force), four abbreviations have been mentioned. Two are "PDSR", and "DG"; the other two are not clear. Details are awaited on whether Haschke — who was arrested earlier this year, and whose confession to investigators last year produced several clinching clues — has revealed what the abbreviations mean.

During court proceedings on Friday, Ennio Amodio, defence lawyer for Giuseppe Orsi, the former Finmeccanica CEO who has been accused of generating bribes in the contract, contended that nothing written in the sheet was actually ever done, and it could not, therefore, be shown as proof of corruption.

In India, the anti-corruption probe into the deal is going slowly. The CBI has filed an FIR naming several Indian businessmen and former Air Chief S P Tyagi and his cousins. There is no indication yet that the CBI has probed the role, if any, of politicians and bureaucrats in fixing the deal.

Meanwhile, defence ministry officials said that the Italian court has granted permission to the Indian side to cross-question Haschke. Sources said that the cross-questioning would be done by Italian lawyers hired by India on December 13.

nachiket
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby nachiket » 09 Dec 2013 19:20

muraliravi wrote:Sorry sir, I disagree. If anything he is even more sold out. All his opposition to khujliwal was just to gain attention. There is absolutely no reason why Anna Hazare or any of his minions got so much media coverage when the great rajiv dixit ji did not even get a 2 min mention in any MSM channel even after his death. All same coterie. BJP can no longer handle these guys with kid gloves. They need to unleash a full frontal attack on Anna, Khujliwal and use Baba Ramdev for this purpose. After all this Anna minion was propped up for mainly destroying baba ramdev's popularity.

Anaa Hazare's past record doesn't make me believe he is sold out. He is an old school activist for whom MKG is God and hunger strikes and fasts are the solution to everything. The 2011 agitation got so much attention because people were fed up with the UPA govt. and were ready to latch onto anything. Kejriwal saw an opportunity and took full advantage perhaps with the back-door support of the Congress.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Rahul M » 09 Dec 2013 19:28

if AH is sold out you will have to explain what price he pegged himself at because he didn't seem to get any.
just FYI, full GOI machinery was searching for dirt to throw on him (much like modi) and didn't find any.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby muraliravi » 09 Dec 2013 19:29

By the way for all those fretting about MSM,

This is in himachal

Image

These guys are nothing, we should not waste our time on them. Did anyone find AAJ Tak also equally sold out?

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Altair » 09 Dec 2013 19:32

^
Many people think that analysis is Binary Logic, means
Either corrupt or national hero.
Either pseudo-secularist/Leftist or Hindu Nationalist etc..
This is never a case in real world. There will always be cases where people exhibit multi-polar behaviour. They do something extraordinarily great for a country but also harm her more than anything. Sometimes both at the same time.
Once we do analysis that people can behave in many ways at the same time you will get a more accurate big picture.
A guy is honest to his wife and takes good care of her but he may have met some super hot chick at work who wants to have a one-nighter with him for a promotion. He may spend that night and still take care of his wife. May be a bad analogy but its easy to understand people by not looking at them as logic circuits.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby M Joshi » 09 Dec 2013 19:33

nachiket wrote:
muraliravi wrote:Sorry sir, I disagree. If anything he is even more sold out. All his opposition to khujliwal was just to gain attention. There is absolutely no reason why Anna Hazare or any of his minions got so much media coverage when the great rajiv dixit ji did not even get a 2 min mention in any MSM channel even after his death. All same coterie. BJP can no longer handle these guys with kid gloves. They need to unleash a full frontal attack on Anna, Khujliwal and use Baba Ramdev for this purpose. After all this Anna minion was propped up for mainly destroying baba ramdev's popularity.

Anaa Hazare's past record doesn't make me believe he is sold out. He is an old school activist for whom MKG is God and hunger strikes and fasts are the solution to everything. The 2011 agitation got so much attention because people were fed up with the UPA govt. and were ready to latch onto anything. Kejriwal saw an opportunity and took full advantage perhaps with the back-door support of the Congress.


But the question is why is he batting for Kejri now? If he is even tiny bit aware that Kejri took advantage of him then why is he parising Kejrilike he is his own son? What was the reason he left in-between the Jan lokpal agitation last year? If he left, then why is he coming back for agitation? Who is he letting his support to through this agitation, thereby grabbing more media attention & making a fool of gullible youth?

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby nachiket » 09 Dec 2013 19:33

Rahul M wrote:if AH is sold out you will have to explain what price he pegged himself at because he didn't seem to get any.
just FYI, full GOI machinery was searching for dirt to throw on him (much like modi) and didn't find any.

Yeah, unlike some other "activists", he really has had no personal benefits. He has little money and lives in the same small room since 1975.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Lilo » 09 Dec 2013 19:35

muraliravi wrote:By the way for all those fretting about MSM,

This is in himachal

[img]http://s2.postimg.org/z0dybtfd5/Print_and_TV.jpg img]

These guys are nothing, we should not waste our time on them. Did anyone find AAJ Tak also equally sold out?
^^ELM sets the "agenda" so as to speak. Vernacular media tends to imitate them.

So ELM's effect is not limited to their regular viewership.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Karan M » 09 Dec 2013 19:36

Pet turned on the master...master giving up details and inside info.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/shei ... 28627.html

Perhaps on second thoughts, the Congress veteran went on to remark, "I think it is just the dreams that they spun."

Would the AAP phenomenon last? "No, they might once. But it does not mean it is going to be there for ever. The dream has to be also tested," said Sheila.

For instance, AAP had promised a 50 per cent reduction in power tariff in Delhi :mrgreen: while BJP had promised a 30 per cent slash. AAP had come up with the idea of holding assembly session at the Ramlila ground where the Lokpal bill would be passed, she said. :mrgreen:

Dikshit said she had explained hundreds of times that her government was not corrupt and also that electricity charges were decided by power regulator DERC.

.....

Dikshit said Kejriwal had "paid workers". Was that the future?, she asked
, adding that Congress would have to look at all options.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby muraliravi » 09 Dec 2013 19:39

Rahul M wrote:if AH is sold out you will have to explain what price he pegged himself at because he didn't seem to get any.
just FYI, full GOI machinery was searching for dirt to throw on him (much like modi) and didn't find any.


Sir ji,

How can we find out how much payment he got, I cant investigate his swiss account or his benami's bank accounts.

The GOI machinery was acting as if they are against him. Just like the brits created MKG.

The simple fact that this 2 paise activist got so much attentions compared to the doyens there is proof for me that he is a stooge.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby nachiket » 09 Dec 2013 19:41

It will be fun to see AAP try to run the Delhi govt. and try to cut power tariffs by 50% only to be told by the babus that they can either give up their ridiculous promises or run out of money.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby nachiket » 09 Dec 2013 19:44

muraliravi wrote:Sir ji,

How can we find out how much payment he got, I cant investigate his swiss account or his benami's bank accounts.

You may not get his account details, but it is easy to find out how much money a person has by seeing how he lives. What good is a swiss bank account if you are not going to be using any of that money to buy stuff even in the twilight of your life and no children to pass it on to?

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby kapilrdave » 09 Dec 2013 19:48

Also, anna spoke against RSS, the institution which supported him all through his life and also from where he comes originally. He removed photo of bharatmata from his campaigns just to appear secular. It is unbelievable that he didn't knew about the background of the likes of prashant bhushan and swami agnivesh (I would give benefit of doubt for farzi). Yet he not only let them in but allowed them to lead his campaign. He may not be sold out, but he has definitely proved himself as a useful idiot. And now he is crossing all limits of idiocy by supporting farzi even after seeing his antics.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby muraliravi » 09 Dec 2013 19:49

Lilo wrote:
muraliravi wrote:By the way for all those fretting about MSM,

This is in himachal

[img]http://s2.postimg.org/z0dybtfd5/Print_and_TV.jpg img]

These guys are nothing, we should not waste our time on them. Did anyone find AAJ Tak also equally sold out?
^^ELM sets the "agenda" so as to speak. Vernacular media tends to imitate them.

So ELM's effect is not limited to their regular viewership.


Sir, looking at those stats, I see no reason why Amar Ujala with 42% market share should allow TOI with 0.5% share to set the tone. I dont agree with your logic. And on the ground too, Amar Ujala has a far (in fact far more) neutral opinion of things than the sold out TOI.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Rahul M » 09 Dec 2013 19:50

@muraliravi, I just know what I know from people involved. facts on the ground support what I've learnt. that's good enough for me.
it's up to you to believe or not. I can't make you believe something.

if AH was really playing for cong, how do you explain the anti-cong wave, esp in delhi ? much of which is due directly to his movement ?
of course he might have a soft corner for kejriwal because he supported him at that juncture. IMO it's better not to see the world in black and whites.


@kapil, agnivesh was also thrown out of the movement if you remember.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby kapilrdave » 09 Dec 2013 19:55

^^ Only after he was caught on camera.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby SaiK » 09 Dec 2013 19:55

modi caused delhi debacle (doom by broom) : nitish kumar the bad santa from birhar

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Karan M » 09 Dec 2013 19:56

AH is just a local leader from MH, with a limited worldview who was co-opted by Kejri for his own ends (Lokpal, elections). He is simplistic when it comes to the big picture, shrewd when it comes to dealing with local issues. INC treated him with kid gloves as they have history of tackling him and also they didnt know what else to do, given media focus. Doesnt mean AH is corrupt. Just that he is a man of limited means with limited aims, expected to give soundbytes on national issues.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Rahul M » 09 Dec 2013 20:03

kapilrdave wrote:^^ Only after he was caught on camera.

he was thrown out because they felt he was pushing govt position in negotiations. what did you expect them to do ? conduct thorough character antecedent checks through police and IB ? who are they ? GOI ?

they accepted help from people who claimed they wanted to and when they doubted the loyalty of one he was kicked out.
your point being ?

karan, +1. you can see that from some of his solutions. tie up people to trees and what not.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby johneeG » 09 Dec 2013 20:03

Altair wrote:^
Many people think that analysis is Binary Logic, means
Either corrupt or national hero.
Either pseudo-secularist/Leftist or Hindu Nationalist etc..
This is never a case in real world. There will always be cases where people exhibit multi-polar behaviour. They do something extraordinarily great for a country but also harm her more than anything. Sometimes both at the same time.
Once we do analysis that people can behave in many ways at the same time you will get a more accurate big picture.
A guy is honest to his wife and takes good care of her but he may have met some super hot chick at work who wants to have a one-nighter with him for a promotion. He may spend that night and still take care of his wife. May be a bad analogy but its easy to understand people by not looking at them as logic circuits.


Good point, saar. Thats why things are so complex.

----
Muraliravi saar,
carefully note that Anna did not really get much coverage. He got coverage only till he was with Fordriwal.

Right now, Anna seems to be trying to get back some control on 'anti-corruption movement'. He must have just realized after this election that his plank really worked but he could not make much out of it and the whole gain went to Fordri. So, he is trying to regain the space. Thats why he is launching another fast now. Thats how I read it(though I have no inside infos).

It seems to me that Anna saheb is driven by the vanity and need to get some attention. I think he knew very well that he was taking the help of overground naxals and did not mind it. So, as such is always a danger.

The reason for success of his campaign was that it was supposed to divert people from the campaign of Baba Ramdev. Anna may seemed more manageable because the kongis had infiltrated his group completely. They had pretty good handle. So, they allowed his movement to proceed while curbing the Ramdev Baba. The kongis were in a fix and were trying to divert people's attention from Baba to Anna or from Anna to Baba. Misfortunately for them, Anna and Baba both hit it off. Baba among non-dilli crowd and Anna among dilli janta. So, it became double whammy. I think Pappu was handling the issue at that time.

When Anna was arrested, they may have feared a literal revolution in Lootyens. Some say that Pranab was mighty angry against Pappu and then it was decided to send Anna away from dilli to defuse the situation. Fortunately, no revolution happened.

Edit:
Also, Baba Ramdev movement was more RSS friendly. While, Anna movement(with insistence of overground naxals) was supposed to equidistant from all political parties. Essentially, it was supposed to stop the BJP from taking advantage of kongi scams. Even then, RSS and BJP supported the Anna movement.
/Edit.

About the media:
mental slave society: The angrez sets the tone. The dheshi deracinated elite follow it. Then the masses imitate the elites. The same phenomenon can also be seen in media. Infact, it is even more pronounced in the media. The international papers set the tone. The dheshi angrezi media follows it. The angrezi media is followed by the regional media. The one in the lower hierarchy is looking for some pat on the back(recognition) from the one on the top of hierarchy.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Rahul M » 09 Dec 2013 20:06

Altair, very well explained.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby kapilrdave » 09 Dec 2013 20:09

Rahul M wrote:he was thrown out because they felt he was pushing govt position in negotiations. what did you expect them to do ? conduct thorough character antecedent checks through police and IB ? who are they ? GOI ?

they accepted help from people who claimed they wanted to and when they doubted the loyalty of one he was kicked out.
your point being ?

My point is that he is a dishonest man. Tomorrow if you start a agitation, would you allow people like teesta setalwad, A Roy anywhere around you even if they support your idea? He keeps blind eye for the people who support him. And to get the larger support base he ditched RSS even though it was RSS which made his agitation a huge success. He was explained multiple times that his version of janlokpal is a silly idea but he wouldn't listen. Perhaps purposely. He is much like MKG who has no clue of what he is doing but wants people's attention anyhow. Simply put, A useful idiot.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby panduranghari » 09 Dec 2013 20:10

muraliravi wrote:By the way for all those fretting about MSM,

This is in himachal

These guys are nothing, we should not waste our time on them. Did anyone find AAJ Tak also equally sold out?


Punya Pasoon Vajapayee is quite allright and perhaps the most balanced of MSM journalist. His news laundry is very good too.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby pankajs » 09 Dec 2013 20:15

Pehle AAP: Behold the polite new face of Delhi politics
A day after the results, Delhiites at large are a bit disappointed that after venting all their anger to vanquish Congress party, they still don't have an alternate government in Delhi.

This is where both the Risk as well as the opportunity lies for BJP.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby SaiK » 09 Dec 2013 20:22

^should not that speak a lot about delhites more than anything else.. they are visionless! 1010 precisely

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby g.sarkar » 09 Dec 2013 20:24

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/will- ... 131209.htm
"Will its allies desert the Congress with the escape velocity of Jupiter?
'The Congress's allies won't be left behind in looking out for their own interests. Some will demand a bigger share of the ministerial or electoral pie, others will simply jump ship,' says T V R Shenoy.
Stop worrying about Narendra Modi.
Stop worrying about the BJP's hat-tricks in Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh.
Stop worrying about the decimation of your party in Rajasthan and in Delhi.
You have more to be concerned about, Congressmen!
Madhya Pradesh (29 seats), Rajasthan (25 seats), Chhattisgarh (11 seats), and Delhi (7 seats) account for just 72 Lok Sabha constituencies. Even if you add Mizoram's single seat, that accounts for only 73 parliamentary seats.
Last week, I asked what might happen if the Congress 'High Command' could no longer command. The answer should worry the Congress.
It was the common refrain of all Congress spokespersons that the party put no faith in opinion polls and exit polls -- since when? -- and refused to participate in any debate based on those surveys.
But one Congressman who took them very seriously indeed was Kiran Kumar Reddy.
Before a single vote was counted -- after the exit polls were released -- the chief minister of Andhra Pradesh unfurled the banner of revolt against the 'High Command'.
The decision to carve a separate Telangana out of Andhra Pradesh was approved by the Congress Working Committee and by the Union Cabinet. But Kiran Kumar Reddy said he would ensure the proposal would be defeated when debated in the Andhra Pradesh assembly......."
Gautam

muraliravi
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby muraliravi » 09 Dec 2013 20:26

johneeG wrote:Muraliravi saar,
carefully note that Anna did not really get much coverage. He got coverage only till he was with Fordriwal.



Sir, thanks for raising this point. I will do a google search with domain specific search to see how much coverage was given to Anna before and after he ditched khujliwal.

muraliravi
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby muraliravi » 09 Dec 2013 20:32

Rahul M wrote:@muraliravi, I just know what I know from people involved. facts on the ground support what I've learnt. that's good enough for me.
it's up to you to believe or not. I can't make you believe something.

if AH was really playing for cong, how do you explain the anti-cong wave, esp in delhi ? much of which is due directly to his movement ?
of course he might have a soft corner for kejriwal because he supported him at that juncture. IMO it's better not to see the world in black and whites.


@kapil, agnivesh was also thrown out of the movement if you remember.


Sir, I will dig out more details for you. But here is one data point, NDTV survey in early 2011 before Anna movement got much coverage showed BJP sweeping delhi with 6 LS seats of the 7. It was only after this junk movement, surveys started giving BJP 4 / 7. So probably congress saw that they were going to lose in delhi anyway, so they thought, lets try and split opposition vote, but things got out of hand and AAP saw chance of them coming to power themselves

RoyG
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby RoyG » 09 Dec 2013 20:45

Jaitely has just tossed the ball into AAP's court saying that we don't have the numbers and that it is up to Congress to give support to AAP. If they take the bait they will be finished.

vivek.rao
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby vivek.rao » 09 Dec 2013 20:45

Rahul M wrote:meanwhile

holy ravioli, this is big.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/middl ... 9/1204792/

Middlemen's 'budget sheet' in Italy court refers to bureaucrats, 'AP', 'FAM' (Family)
Manu Pubby : New Delhi, Sun Dec 08 2013, 04:08 hrs Small Large Print
244G +3SU0Reddit0 1
Chopper dealThe document is in the hand of Swiss businessman Guido Haschke, who has confessed to having written it during a meeting with British middleman Christian Michel in 2008. PTI
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Italian prosecutors in the VVIP chopper deal have produced in court a "budget" drawn up by two key middlemen, which purportedly lists initials of Indian politicians and designations of bureaucrats, besides those of IAF officers, who it says would need to be "handled" for the deal to come through.

This is the first time that references to Indian officials other than IAF officers have figured in the investigations into the alleged corruption in the deal. No evidence has, however, surfaced yet to suggest payoffs were made to any of these individuals, either in accordance with this "budget" or otherwise.

The document is in the hand of Swiss businessman Guido Haschke, who has confessed to having written it during a meeting with British middleman Christian Michel in 2008. Prosecutors have presented it in court as a key piece of evidence to make the case that kickbacks of over 51 million euros were generated in the deal.

The note, which has been accessed by The Sunday Express, has three sections under which initials of politicians, designations of IAF personnel, and positions of bureaucrats respectively have been listed. Haschke has confessed in court that he drew up the list based on Michel's assessment of what would be needed for the "operation in India".

More evidence in the probe — the details of which were first reported by The Indian Express — is expected to be revealed in court in coming days.

Under the heading "POL" — Guido Haschke explained in court that this referred to Indian politicians — there are two references. One is to "AP" against which "3 million Euro" has been listed. The other is "FAM" — explained by Italian investigators in other documents as "Family" — against which "15/16 million Euro" has been listed. It is not clear if Haschke has explained in court what "AP" and "FAM" refer to.

Under the heading "BUR" — explained as "bureaucrats" in court by Haschke — six abbreviated designations have been listed. Five are key posts in the defence ministry — "DS", "JS AIR", "AFA", "DG Acquisition" and "another Gen". The sixth abbreviation in the list is "CVC". A total of "8.5 million Euro" has been "budgeted" under the "BUR" head.

Under the third heading "AF" (Air Force), four abbreviations have been mentioned. Two are "PDSR", and "DG"; the other two are not clear. Details are awaited on whether Haschke — who was arrested earlier this year, and whose confession to investigators last year produced several clinching clues — has revealed what the abbreviations mean.

During court proceedings on Friday, Ennio Amodio, defence lawyer for Giuseppe Orsi, the former Finmeccanica CEO who has been accused of generating bribes in the contract, contended that nothing written in the sheet was actually ever done, and it could not, therefore, be shown as proof of corruption.

In India, the anti-corruption probe into the deal is going slowly. The CBI has filed an FIR naming several Indian businessmen and former Air Chief S P Tyagi and his cousins. There is no indication yet that the CBI has probed the role, if any, of politicians and bureaucrats in fixing the deal.

Meanwhile, defence ministry officials said that the Italian court has granted permission to the Indian side to cross-question Haschke. Sources said that the cross-questioning would be done by Italian lawyers hired by India on December 13.


This is huge

Get it on tiwtter. Pound the FAMILY

KLP Dubey
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby KLP Dubey » 09 Dec 2013 20:47

archan wrote:BS post and you will receive a warning for this. I have been watching your posts, your sarcasm which you have been using on some gullible members here. Shape up or I'll ship you back to the hole where you crept out of. We allow you and your ilk to stay here, it does not mean you will start with your mission to dilute and degrade discussions here. First and last warning.


Wow - is this a post by the moderator, or did someone hack his/her account? Mr. Archan: i will send you a private message later this week. this thread is months old, and i have made about 5 posts here. i am not expecting any reply or extended discussion. Does that seem like a "mission" to you? The abusive wording of your post - if indeed it is yours - is not warranted. I hope this is a mistake.

I do not want to distract the thread so i appreciate if there is no further discussion of this post by other members on the thread.

Singha
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Singha » 09 Dec 2013 20:48

RoyG wrote:Jaitely has just tossed the ball into AAP's court saying that we don't have the numbers and that it is up to Congress to give support to AAP. If they take the bait they will be finished.


a Kureel cartoon of AJ and Namo hiding behind a bush pulling the monkey trap shut would be hilarious.

RoyG
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby RoyG » 09 Dec 2013 20:59

Who could AP and FAM be? :D

Karan M
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Karan M » 09 Dec 2013 21:02

Kejriwal has responded. As usual calling the BJP, INC==, corrupt and that he wants a reelection and some personal jibes at Jaitley. Either ways that is good, because their nuisance will be limited to delhi for 2014.

vivek.rao
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby vivek.rao » 09 Dec 2013 21:03

RoyG wrote:Who could AP and FAM be? :D

:rotfl:

If we can get YSR and Family at one shot, WOW!


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