AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

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RamaY
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by RamaY »

ashashi wrote:News reports on how may congress ministers and legislators resigned is confusing.
Can someone shed light on the subject?
They are just trying to create smoke screens and are trying to fool Telugus (on both sides).

On wednesday Eetela Rajender said this on TV.

"Nothing is changed for Telugus. They can live peacefully and happily in Hyderabad. They can buy the lands anywhere in Telangana and continue to do the businesses as usual."

Assuming telangana state gets their fair share of River waters, how long do people think it will take for them to build the dams and infrastructure to consume it? Will it be any different from the already existing Jalayajnam projects in pipeline?

So what changed for Telangana commoner? How many new Govt jobs can be created? Can they be more than 10-20K (1:2000 per population).

How is this going to solve any problem for Telangna people?
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by SaiK »

The vanniyaars of TN should have begun for state-ful separation. 13/29 districts for vanniyars (bijnej).

split fever should spread now to KA.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by shaardula »

some maps to follow.

population
Image
Note this is a low res map, which shows densities in kutch and marwa same as those in rayalaseema. not true. but good enough to identify really high density areas.
natural corridors of high density in AP and how these are connected internally, not to mention to the corridors in the rest of the country.
TN near homogenous density. Same KL, with chessboard pattern of alternating high density bands.
Map does not show it, but corridors basically all along river basins.
Last edited by shaardula on 02 Aug 2013 20:29, edited 1 time in total.
shaardula
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by shaardula »

river basins in AP
Image

more conceptual map
Image
lines are isolines of rainfall. note godavari region across state same rainfall profile. not krishna though.
a higher res map showing the same information here
Image

ground water irrigation
Image

given that half of krishna basin is rain deficient, i can understand groundwater usage in krishna bsin, ut check the ground water usage in godavari delta :shock:
another trend in godavari delta, is to fill rich maagaNi lands lands with salt water for prawn/shrimp fishing. criminal waste.
Last edited by shaardula on 02 Aug 2013 20:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Hari Seldon »

From kanchan da on twitter:

>>Kanchan Gupta ‏@KanchanGupta 1 Aug
MIM wants Urdu as official language of Telangana? Why Urdu? They should demand Arabic.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by shaardula »

finally topography
Image
SaiK
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by SaiK »

T state appears rich from the above maps.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by shaardula »

a very basic geology map.
Image
contiguity between the middle 1/3 of the deccan and an illustration of the kadapa pocket and godavari delta. and how basic geology that starts in notn extends all the way up to bengal(?)

note: see topo map to see correspondence to drops in altitude.

from what i understand, east of the western ghats all land has a negative gradient towards to the bay of bengal. all rivers flow east. things fall rapidly east of hyderabad ofcourse.


so question to folks like theo here, on the high altitude shelfs of TL, can we not build lakes instead of dams? it rains in these areas, and the water flows. why not lakes instead of dams? they also mine these areas. that too open earth type.

point being circa 2013, one would think maximizing utilization of available resources rather than condemn pockets within state to the vagaries of their geological curse for the lack of proactive engineering would be of high importance.

we know gults love hacking JEE, can they hack geography?
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by SaiK »

^hacking JEE!?
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by shaardula »

yes hack JEE. bidda engineer does not mean being smart with irodov or r&h. it does not end with mastering trigonometric equalities. bhagiratuDuvaayi monDu talli godaari ni oppinchevaaDe engineeru.

i have to say this. AP demerger is not like any of the other prior state formations. its not like jharkand or chattisgarh you know. how much human capital exists in both TL & CAP? and WTF are they doing? and how the fukk did they mess up so much. i have zero investment in AP and even i'm scandalized by the state of things.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by shaardula »

look up CBN for example. He talks more like real estate developer than a concerned citizen. WTFman, give him new capital as developed as h'bad and he would be fine? how the hell did did this all reduce to such brick and mortar thinking? wtf is wrong is with this guy, and htf is this guy even in political reckoning?
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Vayutuvan »

Some amount of lake/pond irrigation takes at least in some parts of T region (will it finally become a state? Let's wait and see - many a slip between ... and all that). During CBN's time there was quite a bit of interest in rain water harvesting but not sure to what extent that idea took hold in the large swath of rural areas. Certainly was fashionable and one would see models in science fairs in hyd. Now a days all is quiet on western front.

No comment on relative merits of the leaders of AP. In general all have strengths and weaknesses. Without the former they could not have reached highest positions in govt. and the latter usually is the cause of their downfall.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Vayutuvan »

Shaardula By the way the maps are very good. Any hi res and are they open?
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Sushupti »

Image
ramana
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by ramana »

shaardula. You got it. Its unlike anything we have seen before. But I could be discounted for being from the state.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by SaiK »

Engineering a living system or operational space is widely different to a well scoped smaller or tiny bit of some xyz system of information domain.. It would be bad to even imagine to consider them as domain experts, when it comes to reality check.

Engineers should normally chase after model driven development.. collect metrics, and apply the outcomes to generate the actual prototypes. Still, they may have to fine tune to operational changes.. this is where the designer comes in, and the art of engineering merges with science and math. City or capital making most of the times are not Engineer driven sadly in desh.. it just gets formed out of personal ambitions.

This is a sad state of affairs.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Bade »

It is sad to see the protests taking this kind of turn in the pics. Nothing to be gleeful about. I say this even as I can understand the angst of AP folks as an outsider. The bifurcation seems to have the support of most political parties. This is what I mean when I say Indians are not mature at 18 yrs or even at 48 yrs by and large. Mob violence is the rule everywhere.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by SaiK »

manifestations of seeds that our fathers have sown.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by hanumadu »

Narayana Rao wrote:We do not know that for sure sir. INC and TDP which are suppose to be anti T parties as per TRS and Naxal JAC have won handsomely in the just concluded Panchayath Elections. How can that happen if every one wants T State how come TRS did quite bad in most of the Telangana?

Let us be clear sir, this is about wining maximum MP seats in 2014 elections - There are not other background or idea behind it. Any one with pea size brain will understand that plan.
You are saying two contradictory things. You are saying, INC and TDP will do well irrespective of T sentiment. In the very next sentence, you are saying Congress will win because of the T split. Sir, please make up your mind.

Any one with a pea size brain will understand that whatever be the motivation for the division, it might have a beneficial effect for Telangana.
Theo_Fidel

Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Shaaradula, thanx for the maps. they are very interesting.

I too think this entire battle is over water. Even the fury in Seemandhra is all about water. The problem in SI is never rainfall, it is the evaporation rate. Some of the highest in the world. Even dry NI karnataka receives about 25-30 inches of rainfall a year, which about what chicago gets. But the evaportion rate in Telangana is roughly 180 cm's per year or 50-60 inches. Also notice that your map identifies that Telangana is underlain by the Dharwar Craton, very old dense granite, read, low porosity, little ground water. RWH will have a very limited potential here. Need something line sandstone, limestone or even weathered basalt to help with ground water retention.

My own view is complex. Take the looong term. Agriculture in India is already down to 15% of GDP and in our lifetime will probably drop to 5%-6% of GDP. Between WB, Mahanadi, Godavari, Krishna Cauvery Delta regions there is roughly 50 million acres of land. When operated to 2/3 of world level performance these areas can easily produce 12-15 tonnes per Hectare of grain and produce. In a scientifically run hydroponic system as in Almira Spain, you can easily produce 60-80 tonnes of tomato's per hectare for instance. Delta regions around the world are fantastically productive due to a combination of high sediment, nutrient flow, 330+ days of sunshine, High air pressure @ MSL (important), low pest concentrations, etc. Throw in a few other areas like parts of Punjab, Haryana, Western UP etc, these areas can easily feed 2-3 times India's population without really breaking a sweat. Just need high skill level and organized agriculture.

All the rest are also rans, IMVHO. There is simply no way Telangana highland agriculture can ever compete with seemandhra delta agriculture. Notice also that Telangana highland is Dharwar craton, this is old, very old, granite shield material. Depleted in nutrients and not good agriculture material.

If you look at the map you will notice that the northen band of Telangana is quite wet, the problem is that the Godavari valley stands between it and and the arid highlands south. The Highlands are typically 1600' plus. The Krishna Godavari valleys are at 500' or so. Some parts of krishna are at 1000'. This has always been a challenge, how to get the water up there. And do it in a financially viable manner. The truncated state could easily bankrupt itself trying to compete with the delta areas in agriculture.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by ramana »

One of the complaints is that rain fe marginal crops were replaced with high water demanding crops. Read the Hindu essay on State and Identity.

So common people were pointing out things but no one is listening.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Sushupti »

Looks like Opus dei has decided to implement tutsi vs hutu Rawanda model in AP to spread the message of "Love".
AICC had struck a ‘secret deal’ on Rayala-Telangana

HYDERABAD, August 3, 2013

Rayala-Telangana may, after all the protests, may become a reality as the AICC’s top brass had forged a ‘secret pact’ with leaders from Kurnool and Anantapur on merging the two districts with Telangana.

This is also evident from the carefully worded resolution passed by the Congress Working Committee on the formation of Telangana and AICC general secretary Digvijay Singh’s statement that a Group of Ministers would take a call on the demand for inclusion of more districts in Telangana State. Highly placed sources told The Hindu that Mr. Digvijay made these observations only after extracting an assurance from leaders of the two districts and some key persons in Telangana. A top AICC functionary telephoned Ministers from Kurnool and Anantapur and informed them of the plan to merge the two districts with a view to ensuring that there were 147 Assembly and 21 Lok Sabha seats each in Andhra Pradesh and Telangana.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... epage=true
Last edited by Sushupti on 03 Aug 2013 03:32, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by SaiK »

I have not forgotten about farmers committing suicide due to non-suitable farming methods. Without accounting farming and agricultural needs, there is absolutely no point in all this hair splitting deals kangrez is engaging in.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by ramana »

3 August, 2013
Hindu:

KCR: Coastal Districts employees have to go back

Next what else?
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by SaiK »

So, there is nothing called residency and domicile?
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Vayutuvan »

ramana wrote:3 August, 2013
Hindu:
KCR: Coastal Districts employees have to go back
Next what else?
That is a hugely bad idea - what coastals had been fearing and might lead to a lot of bad blood.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Vayutuvan »

ramana wrote:One of the complaints is that rain fe marginal crops were replaced with high water demanding crops.
Totally true in T where tobacco replaced lentils (tur daal, channa, Pesalu), Jonnalu (sorgham) and makkalu (corn) and peanuts. A lot of veggies are also replaced with cash crops - tobacco and sugarcane. There used to be wheat which is now non-existent, AFIK. Of course, rice is always grown (and water hungry). There are a lot of "metta bhoomulu" (high and dry fields) that are quite suitable for lentils and peanuts.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Muppalla »

ramana wrote:shaardula. You got it. Its unlike anything we have seen before. But I could be discounted for being from the state.
No sir. I have been through couple of agitations in AP. This time they may have lost and every person knows that the state is divided but this is a wakeup from "let me make to another H1B/ US trip or but some land or do some biziness" slumber. This is the region that returned Dynasty loyally. Now they have uprooted even JLN and that is a unique feature. The symbolism is like when Soviet Union fell they uprooted Lenin etc. Seemandhra is going through that. It has to cool down but the crony-capitalist type politicos are a gone case. Instead of stone, most of these are bronze statues and hence fire glowing.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Muppalla »

shaardula wrote:look up CBN for example. He talks more like real estate developer than a concerned citizen. WTFman, give him new capital as developed as h'bad and he would be fine? how the hell did did this all reduce to such brick and mortar thinking? wtf is wrong is with this guy, and htf is this guy even in political reckoning?
This is f-shit on the entire coast. You should visit US. No APite want to do job and do something where you need to make quick but a lot. Group-r-estate buying in US is also going on. Gold, IT companies, body shopping, real estate and all such things. 50% of Indian restaurants in n.va are all APites. CBN will click because of those things.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by krisna »

Statue falling is very bad omen.
Reminds me of ussr where comrades statues were torn down,
Iraq whet Saddam statues torn
Now Nehru Indiramma and Rajiv torn down.

Never a good sign.

Statues are a potent visible sign of all powerful for the ruling establishment.
Especially when it happens in a place ruled by its own coterie. It shows people have outgrown fear and love of the rulers. Very ominous sign. It emboldens others also.
Think of ussr Iraq and now AP.

I do count bad days for congis which is good in the long run for India.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by hanumadu »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Shaaradula, thanx for the maps. they are very interesting.

I too think this entire battle is over water. Even the fury in Seemandhra is all about water. The problem in SI is never rainfall, it is the evaporation rate. Some of the highest in the world. Even dry NI karnataka receives about 25-30 inches of rainfall a year, which about what chicago gets. But the evaportion rate in Telangana is roughly 180 cm's per year or 50-60 inches. Also notice that your map identifies that Telangana is underlain by the Dharwar Craton, very old dense granite, read, low porosity, little ground water. RWH will have a very limited potential here. Need something line sandstone, limestone or even weathered basalt to help with ground water retention.

My own view is complex. Take the looong term. Agriculture in India is already down to 15% of GDP and in our lifetime will probably drop to 5%-6% of GDP. Between WB, Mahanadi, Godavari, Krishna Cauvery Delta regions there is roughly 50 million acres of land. When operated to 2/3 of world level performance these areas can easily produce 12-15 tonnes per Hectare of grain and produce. In a scientifically run hydroponic system as in Almira Spain, you can easily produce 60-80 tonnes of tomato's per hectare for instance. Delta regions around the world are fantastically productive due to a combination of high sediment, nutrient flow, 330+ days of sunshine, High air pressure @ MSL (important), low pest concentrations, etc. Throw in a few other areas like parts of Punjab, Haryana, Western UP etc, these areas can easily feed 2-3 times India's population without really breaking a sweat. Just need high skill level and organized agriculture.

All the rest are also rans, IMVHO. There is simply no way Telangana highland agriculture can ever compete with seemandhra delta agriculture. Notice also that Telangana highland is Dharwar craton, this is old, very old, granite shield material. Depleted in nutrients and not good agriculture material.

If you look at the map you will notice that the northen band of Telangana is quite wet, the problem is that the Godavari valley stands between it and and the arid highlands south. The Highlands are typically 1600' plus. The Krishna Godavari valleys are at 500' or so. Some parts of krishna are at 1000'. This has always been a challenge, how to get the water up there. And do it in a financially viable manner. The truncated state could easily bankrupt itself trying to compete with the delta areas in agriculture.
Theo, there is no competition with anyone, only an aspiration for better lives. There is nothing wrong with T soil. If water is available, you can comfortably grow three crops. Though agriculture's contribution to GDP is less and decreasing, the number of people dependent on it still very high. Without increasing the purchasing power of these people, the region as a whole will remain backward. Water is needed for industries too, not only agriculture.

For regions that are at a height, lift irrigation is the proposed method. That's true even for coastal areas that are high. Same for Rayalaseema too.
matrimc wrote:
ramana wrote:One of the complaints is that rain fe marginal crops were replaced with high water demanding crops.
Totally true in T where tobacco replaced lentils (tur daal, channa, Pesalu), Jonnalu (sorgham) and makkalu (corn) and peanuts. A lot of veggies are also replaced with cash crops - tobacco and sugarcane. There used to be wheat which is now non-existent, AFIK. Of course, rice is always grown (and water hungry). There are a lot of "metta bhoomulu" (high and dry fields) that are quite suitable for lentils and peanuts.
I have seen tobacco grown occasionally, sugar cane even rarer, but its cotton, mirchi, rice, peanuts and legumes that are common - at least when I was growing up. ButRice is staple food, so you have to grow even if only for personal consumption. It is also necessary for food safety of AP and India. If T stops cultivating rice, rice prices will shoot through the roof.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Manish_Sharma »

^ So maybe we are hearing the first padchaaps of Hindu Bharat's resurgence from Andhra Pradesh as predicted by Brihaspati ji !
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Sushupti »

India by 2040 with 5o states instead of 28

http://kddf.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/map.jpg
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by devesh »

KCR opening his mouth once again after recent meetings with "Delhi" should tell us who is pulling his strings.

he is following Center's command. so what is INC planning? riots on a massive scale?

I really pray that the local elites have enough balls to say NO to INC's diabolical plans.

my biggest fear is that AP has become playground of both the Islamic and Christian proselytizers, the former in the interior, the later Kosta/Seema side. if they are involved in the current scenario, any widespread riots between T and Kosta will be very bad for the long term.

I can easily see the Kosta elite ratcheting up the tried and tested line of "using the M's to keep the T-Hindus down."

and in reply, I can easily see the T-elites doing something similar with the Christian proselytizers.

that is the scenario I fear most. both areas will be divided up by the foreign imperialist sourced fronts and ultimately the Hindu goes down the drain.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by devesh »

Manish_Sharma wrote:^ So maybe we are hearing the first padchaaps of Hindu Bharat's resurgence from Andhra Pradesh as predicted by Brihaspati ji !

I don't think so. the way things are going, especially with KCR once again talking about "sending people back", the reverse might be happening. the seeds of long-term surrender to the proselytizers.

INC is whispering in his ears. and he is following the tunes faithfully.

somebody needs to rein him in. BJP is a good candidate. I think they need to come to power at the earliest. if only to end once and for all, his family's involvement in politics. him, his son, his daughter, the whole damned family.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by RamaY »

Devesh garu,

What did KCR say, links please?
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by SriKumar »

The article posted by ramana has a comment about 'jago/bhago', that this was not raised in the past (plus the '....have to go back' comment). This is cryptic.....What is the need for these comments especially after getting the bifurcation? And how does the 'go back' comment fit in with the 10-year thing about hyd. When do they have to go back? Article is dated Aug. 3, 2013, i.e. today.

Link: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 983220.ece

NDTV reports on the same news: 2nd para has a direct quote.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/telan ... kcr-400631
Last edited by SriKumar on 03 Aug 2013 06:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by member_27444 »

SaiK wrote:So, there is nothing called residency and domicile?
once called Mulki
Mulk = country

Mulki = certified citizen

now

PTO card = People of Telangana Origin

KCR is first PTO he is originally from Far East (of Andhra) Srikakulam

Back to the future of telengana 1969

Next the fate of Cine field
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by ramana »

AmyRao, What are KCR's antecedents? Is there a family history? Is he from Madgolu, Srikakulam?
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Re: AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Post by Bade »

Today I heard the word "Mulki" too from someone at work who is from Guntur. Had never heard the word. Got a background of the whole issue of Telengana right from days of independence. He is a senior person. His opinion was this was inevitable.

Hope things do not come to what KCR is reported to have said. Then it is bad news not just for AP, but for rest of the country too.
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