BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Bade
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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Bade » 21 Feb 2015 19:53

Of course you miss the point as always as you have a colored vision :-) The filtering work needed is now taxing, as both extreme leftist and extreme rightist filters have to be waded through to get to the real news. So it is harder now not easier.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby RamaY » 21 Feb 2015 20:11

Badeji,

If you have NetFlix, watch the program called Brain Games. You will realize that, what you perceive (left, saffron, color blind) is all in your mind.

BRF is the same BS (whatever that is) all along. It appears different for your shadows changed.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Bade » 21 Feb 2015 20:27

BS part I can agree with, but the type of BS matters too. I personally do not long back to old days etc on BR. Without naming postors many prominent ones had big chips and wrote monologues I did not read or even if I did so never gave it any credence. It is just that though they have disappeared for good or bad reasons, the replacements have been equally onerous on one's mind, just that they have a unilateral vision and repeat themselves even more than that lost generation of postors. It just seems like we managed to replace tolerable BS with more frequent less tolerable BS from a pure readers point of view. BR postors were not extreme leftist view holders even in the old days, so that reference I make is to news sourced from elsewhere some even mainstream vendors. So in essence it gets harder for the free roamer seeking for neutral true news portals.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Prem » 22 Feb 2015 01:06

RamaY wrote:Badeji,
If you have NetFlix, watch the program called Brain Games. You will realize that, what you perceive (left, saffron, color blind) is all in your mind.BRF is the same BS (whatever that is) all along. It appears different for your shadows changed.


Kids love it, its real educational programme.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Prem » 22 Feb 2015 01:10

Paul wrote:There was a pompous person named prof raghu in the late 90s. I think I have been here for 17 yrs or more.


We are missing Hari Sood of Britain and Caneda.
[youtube]zfpqfwt_cLg&list=PL3418B7543E9893CC[/youtube]

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Theo_Fidel » 22 Feb 2015 03:32

Bade wrote:It just seems like we managed to replace tolerable BS with more frequent less tolerable BS from a pure readers point of view.


So true. There are entire threads that are almost unreadable these days. The worst began when the politics thread was allowed on GDF. As long as the politics thread continues the politically colored posters will continue to act as stone throwers. I do not know why that vile thread continues on this forum. Not a moments hesitation is taken before posting vile insults and unreadable garbage, with mods looking on and sometimes approving even. I have said this before and I will say it again, very very few on BRF will allow their children onto this forum anymore. I know I will not. Ages past my daughter used to occasionally check in on posts, but not for many years now. That in itself should say something....

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby RamaY » 22 Feb 2015 03:45

^

It all depends on parents. If they don't allow their children to read BRF, the children have less motivation to visit the forum. It doesn't say anything about the forum.

I have at least a dozen of my family reading the forum now. It compensates.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Vayutuvan » 22 Feb 2015 06:34

.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 22 Feb 2015 11:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Vayutuvan » 22 Feb 2015 06:38

Theo_Fidel wrote: I have said this before and I will say it again, very very few on BRF will allow their children onto this forum anymore. I know I will not.

Theo garu: Politics is not for children (of any age :) ).

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Sridhar K » 22 Feb 2015 10:18

SBajwa ji

The Toronto meet was after the one you attended. Guess it was a bigger meet where a Paki joined the meet and boasted about it in a Paki forum. I remember that you couldn't make it to our meet and it was attended by Ldev, Spin, myself Rakesh Akula Mithaiwala (thanks LDev) and one more (he arranged the meeting at the hotel) who I don't remember.

Miss SpinRao garu these days.
Last edited by Sridhar K on 22 Feb 2015 11:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Sridhar K » 22 Feb 2015 10:18

** deleted - duplicate post**
Last edited by Sridhar K on 22 Feb 2015 11:30, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby ldev » 22 Feb 2015 11:00

Sridhar K,

Rakesh K was at that meeting. Spinrao was worried about being ambushed on his way back by a certain poster who no longer posts here!!

There was another meeting at the same venue later, you had moved on, that one was attended among others by Rakesh K and Rupak.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Sridhar K » 22 Feb 2015 11:31

^^. Sorry I missed Rakesh Koshy the mod while posting

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Supratik » 22 Feb 2015 17:38

Politics is the crux of all governance related issues. Unless you want to make BRF a purely military and economic forum. As a vet I remember the khujli of the uber-secular variety that the Hindutva variety was gaining a voice on social media including BRF and tried all kinds of tricks to block that variety of opinion. I think the political thread is only a minor portion of BRF and the quality of analysis not bad. It may appear it is dominated by certain supporters of a political party but I think the opponents just left unable to convince others about their position and unable to take the heat. The quality of posts is sometimes bad in the strat forum where we have a bunch of whiners. But this is an open forum and not a restricted club. So you will have bad posters and posts. Best is to just skip them which is what I do.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Bade » 22 Feb 2015 18:06

Posting on political matters per se is not the issue, but the language used in defending or broad-brushing opposing views, not that there are many here anyway on this forum. So it is a free for all name-calling that is not even allowed on other fellow members but allowed on political figures. Even if one were a Hindutva party voter, many would be taken aback and think twice on what kind of monsters are being groomed, if the fans themselves are so rabid. We use the same yardstick on fans of certain religious persuasion and their antics in the middle-eastern badlands. The fans here look no different than them honestly.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Supratik » 22 Feb 2015 18:16

From experience I can tell that political discussions can get nasty. I think the mods do a decent job of maintaining the thread. There are at least 4-5 mods keeping a watch on that thread. The problem is that there is a majority of one type of political opinion. I do not think it is becoz most of the supporters are nasty but becoz the political narrative has moved towards that side. This is from observation of two decades. The other side doesn't have very solid positions on a lot of issues. I have seen the change even within myself as I am unable to defend a lot of things. But I agree it could be more civil.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Rahul M » 22 Feb 2015 18:23

Bade saar, it might be a bit of confirmation bias on your part.
90% of our warnings and bans are handed out for name-calling of the variety you mention, so dont quite see how people are being 'groomed' here to become 'monsters'.

also, if people who feel there's a slide in standards did more of reporting such posts and less of complaining about those, BRF would be much cleaner than it is now.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Bade » 22 Feb 2015 18:45

The feelers one gets reading through is what I expressed. Most who post are well heeled and well placed so self-moderation in how their views are expressed, would be more helpful than reporting posts, warnings and bans even before we get there.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby ramana » 23 Feb 2015 09:39

Saral posted a triangle on refutation in nukkad. It shows the various levels. It might help to get familiar with it. Key is refute the central point directly.


Bade what is your real issue? You have made five posts in a feel good thread which clearly show you are unhappy. We do want to address it if possible. What exactly is your core/central point?


Saral wrote:Paul Graham's hierarchy of disagreement.

http://t.co/qWyKCacaTP Well worth a read on how the 7 levels set an upper bound (but not a lower bound) for quality of disagreement.

Image

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Amber G. » 23 Feb 2015 22:56

abhischekcc wrote:
panduranghari wrote:Why did they [so called "Secularism khatre mein hain" types] leave? Not that I care, but curious. Where did they go? Its great to rile these people.

I think they got tired of fighting a losing battle. I was one of the most voluble Hindu nationalists in the early days : 1999 and later. Got into major fights but somehow avoided a ban. :mrgreen:

I tend to tune off a thread whenever some emosunal nonsense starts there.


I am sure, many here do think that "secularismvaadis" lost the dharmyudha to "Hindu nationalists" as "most voluble Hindu nationalists" boast. And you may be right that most from this side of dharmayudha, who got into such a fight "avoided a ban". Some may even say that it was encouraged by the establishment. But such cases, if one is being honest, can only be called disgraceful..

Sorry to be blunt...

And I am sure truth is different, at least in a few cases. Some simply left .. just like scientists left Karachi because they did not care for indiscriminate lathicharges. Some of them found that writing in other media, (like technical journals, reputable news papers, and lecturing in universities) was good enough and did not worry about brf.... I am sure people know here, just to give one example, for a brf member, one time head of the counter-terrorism division of the RAW, loss of ability or desire to write in brf was not a concern to him - he still wrote in other places and people read even, if he did not write in brf. (It is really silly to boast that " we made him fled").

Of course, this is not an isolated example. There are university professors, experts in their fields who left brf for their own reasons. It ought to be a matter of shame, not pride, if one's acton caused them to leave.

Even in Pakistan, some people are realizing that declaring people like Salam as non-muslim and kicking them out is nothing of being proud of ...we certainly ought to know better.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Amber G. » 23 Feb 2015 23:06

Badeji -

I think I understand what you are saying and am sure others too. You have articulated it nicely.

Also, for many (certainly for me) brf is more than a social club or a clique. It ought to be more than judging the poster on how well (s)he fits it the clique.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby negi » 23 Feb 2015 23:22

I would rather be in a noisy fish market than a high society wine tasting party , former might not conform to all niceties but are not politically correct , I have had enough of sophisticated bozos who peddle their own agenda under the garb of a so called nuanced take on things. New BRF is better in that sense it is crude , unpretentious and more importantly without that nice lamination of secularism .

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby panduranghari » 24 Feb 2015 00:13

I am a new member here. I however found DFI via Google search and joined up there. One thing I did note over at DFI -which I suspect may be set up by the disgruntled members from BRF who left- was the hatred for everything 'Hindu' was permitted, tolerated and encouraged. So much so that some mods were into the game too.

As compared to that I see a fine line drawn here. And that is how it should be. As Negi ji states a fish market which is not politically correct is better than high society tea party.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Gus » 24 Feb 2015 01:05

You pick your threads and you pick the people you respond to and you ignore rest of the noise and put the ignore list to use.

All of brf is not for everybody and you cannot ask everybody to conform to any standards - other than what the mods are already holding people to.

This appeal to authority won't work here anymore. If B Raman was wrong he's going to be told he was wrong. If some professor type does not feel welcome to post here and takes it elsewhere....so? World is a big place and not everybody need to feel welcome here in every thread they participate by every postor.

There is some basic posting etiquette that you can demand - no excessive or graphic cuss words, personal attacks, no stalking etc...that about it.

If you keep changing somebody's opinions as your primary goal in brf, you are just setting yourself for butthurt.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2015 02:57

Taking the balance of everything did the members benefit from BRF or not?

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Vayutuvan » 24 Feb 2015 03:47

Im my case, it is a resounding yes. The areas I benefited in (in no particular order)

1. Taking down of Biju Mathews/Angana Chatterji report
2. Games Pakistan plays
3. British perfidy over the years
4. Indo-US relations and the US policy vis a vis India
5. Technology and Economics matters - especially Math and Physics
6. History and debunking of AIT.
7. eBooks/print books and their reviews
8. Links to other blogs and groups, eg. Rajiv Malhotra
9. information that can be used to counter leftist and p-sec propaganda
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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby member_22733 » 24 Feb 2015 04:49

I fully credit BRF for turning me from a hardcore sikular waadi, paki loving libtard, with an ardent admiration of the west to what I am now: Which is 20000% comooonal.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Bade » 24 Feb 2015 07:50

Ramana, not sure what I can add to clarify further to what I said already.

Amber_G, you are many years more wiser than me so there is no need for the ji title for me. Hope you do not mind my saying so.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby SaiK » 24 Feb 2015 08:27

ji does not go by age but by gnawlijje

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Hari Seldon » 24 Feb 2015 08:51

Was introduced to BR by a senior member in 2006 under another name. Been hardly a day when I had net access that I haven't looked it up.

BRF's addictive yes. Has made a big difference to my thinking, understanding, perspective. Thanks for everything. I intend to be a positive contributor for as long as I can be one.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby ldev » 25 Feb 2015 08:29

Bade wrote:Posting on political matters per se is not the issue, but the language used in defending or broad-brushing opposing views, not that there are many here anyway on this forum. So it is a free for all name-calling that is not even allowed on other fellow members but allowed on political figures. Even if one were a Hindutva party voter, many would be taken aback and think twice on what kind of monsters are being groomed, if the fans themselves are so rabid. We use the same yardstick on fans of certain religious persuasion and their antics in the middle-eastern badlands. The fans here look no different than them honestly.


I look at it this way. Will Narendra Modi stand on a public platform today in India with "one of these monsters who are being groomed, standing besides him indulging in name calling." I think not. I think that he will run a mile away from being publicly associated with one of them in public. So long as he does that, he has my support and good wishes and let the "monsters" live their utopian existence!!

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby pradeepe » 25 Feb 2015 13:38

negi wrote: I have had enough of sophisticated bozos who peddle their own agenda under the garb of a so called nuanced take on things.


I have the same take. Only difference, I don't think them to be bozos, they peddle a very sophisticated agenda. Not saying well meaning ones aren't there...

The cozy ruling establishment (versus governing) has deep roots. They won't go without a fight. There's too much at stake for them. Even the fad nowadays of throwing around the Nazi word comes from similar roots. And folks moralizing Indians on "secularism" even in their convoluted definition is laughable. In this land we are born with principles much higher than these guys can even fathom. The congress version of secularism is an abomination. How they managed for so long and still find appeal is beyond me. Being sophisticated types, they always have nuances. Approaches can be nuanced, not fundamental principles upon which civilizations are painstakingly laid. All humans are only a few degrees away from their primal animal instincts. You cleave away the ingrained wisdom gained with painstaking clarity over hundreds and thousands of years at the risk of civilizational demise.

Are there fringe ideas on BRF that make me cringe. Yes..but this is a forum with its own rules. Those that don't like the ideas that are debated, can try to change it or leave. The cyber world is a very large place. But in my own personal and humble opinion they are needed to balance the garbage that has accumulated at the other end.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby ramana » 25 Feb 2015 22:42

Bade If I had to ask it means you are not clear. So either clarify or hold your peace.
Thanks, ramana

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Arjun » 26 Feb 2015 08:55

Most of us would wish to see an India that is high on logic as well as high on ideological sophistication - & living up to its natural role of Vishwaguru to the rest of the world. If in the process of arriving at this state - a few egos are bruised and voices of some of the Darwinian losers in what is a rather intense dialogue are no longer as prominent as earlier, I do think that is a very small price to pay for society as a whole.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby vishvak » 26 Feb 2015 23:40

Looking at Aero India thread as an example, AESA radars et al., it has been a very long journey that took 15 years. A lot of efforts have been put in by the defense establishment and Indians in general to reach where we are, and the info available at BR is an indicator. Too many good discussion and sources to put on a list.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Rishirishi » 27 Feb 2015 04:34

Some of the changes in 17 years.

1 US has come closer to India
2 Pakistan is colapsing
3 China is a real threat
4 Russia has still got tooth
5 All Indians has access to mobile phones
6 Shopping has totally changed.
7 Alto has changed from status to embarasment
8 Delhi metro
9 Aviation has become accessabel to the middle class.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Shreeman » 01 Mar 2015 00:45

Reading this thread after a long time, and some minor comments:

1. "I must read every thread, every post": Get help. You are addicted. The GDF shows the "human" side of BRF too much, and frankly, I pretty much delude myself into thinking it does not exist. Only this year, have I posted anything there, more or less. I can still only read post in like three threads in the public BRF only most of the time. And most of that is illegible.

2. "X Y Z philosophy/person/thing changed": Yes, cycle of life. Before time, on time, and late. Often too early.

3. "Ideology liked/disliked or religion X Y Z": Frankly, evangelism to a bunch of robots or computers is hardly smart. So when you invest emotion into a topic (I dont seem to be able to post much without upsetting people, including somewho lose it and have to go take baths to calm thrmselves!), realize how bigotted you must be to be upset over a few bytes that are incomprehensible to 99.99999% of humanity and all of the rest of life. Opposing (and disturbing) views must exist.

No one will win a Nobel prize for posting on a forum (and god forbid, why should I wish them so ill that they win; BRF has done me no harm). While it is important to both welcome and send paki ambassadors on their way, those who have left on their own volition ("I dont care if I post here or not") because of a perceived tiff from posters ought to reconsider. Dailogue fosters bonhomie.

You are not 7 years old to be upset by a post on a web forum, and if you do get upset because others dont follow your example or ideology then consider an anger management class. This lack of perspective is surely showing in the rest of your life too.

This is from the perspective of a person who has knocked, opened, and looked around every door in the world outside BR. There is no point in getting angry/attached -- it is all scented and painted (saffron, green, or stars and glitter) pakistan.

Well, at least its a LONG rant.

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Mar 2015 18:06

Vayu Tuvan 's list above is excellent. What a fascinating dhaga!
#1: Shifting world opinion on India-Pakistan and 'Kashmir', by presenting the facts. In '99 there were TWO websites that gave the truth on Indian history: Indian embassy site in DC and maybe a site in Dilli. Hajaar other sides all pro-Paki, anti-India. Inside 2 years that was turned around 180 degrees, and 'V' took the lead in that. .
#2: (without proof)Hope for India in powering economic growth.[/i] Superlative BRF Nuke discussion, 1998-2004, countering, and dissing, the vicious anti-India propaganda in the wake of POK-2. BRM/SRR articles were referenced in articles from Ft. Leavenworth :shock: Also caused much takleef I am sure, and helped ppl like Ashley Tellis argue for sense.
Note: The 'great debates' circa 2009, cited by some above, were primarily motivated at least on one side by the sad certainty that the fratricidal dissing of desi nukes was politically motivated, and playing into the hands of those whom 'V' fought so hard to push back, just to get India at least talking to other world powers.
#3: 'V' led the FIRST totally non-violent 8) victory of truth over the Commie-Pakis. [/i] The Biju-nanga report was the visible tip of a HUGE conspiracy planned for over 5 years, involving Teesta Setalwad's SABRANG as front, INC Dirty Tricks Dept, Communists in India, France, UK and US, ISI, Indian NGOs such as AID, ASHA, Indian NewsMedia incl. The Hindu, Times of India, Hindustan Times, OUTLOOK, LiberalArts losers in India, US and the USA, all ganged up to destroy India. Lesson 4 present-day Energizer Bunnies: Adminullahs (and others) may ask u to quit religious bashing etc. It may have nothing to do with their own personal views. It is good strategy.
Effect #4: Corollary of #4: 'Hindu' fundraising is now AT LEAST 10 times what it was in 2002. IDRF is doing much better than its 2001 pre-crash peak. Thanks to B.Matthew, A.Chatterji, V.Prashad, G. Agarwal, S.Gera, A.Ra(h)man, Raju whatzit, K.Khawaja, T.Setalvad, J.Anand, V.Lal and Naxal Ram :rotfl:
Effect #5: Proof that Karma Matters: Many of those vicious attackers stepped on their own **** etc, as I hear. See "Justice Thread". Ppl now think AID stands for 'Allahs for India's Destruction'. Some have re-organized in the Berkeley Haas India Riots Initiative, bears watching.
# 6. NaMo's ppl read the Kaveri Engine Thread. :oops:
#7. History and debunking of AIT: Started on BRF by Shri Kaushal et al (anyone seen his fabulous book(s)?) Migrated to India Discussion Forum. The Sukeha forum disseminated Rajiv Malhotra's and Sankrant Sanu's writings like todin's fB/Teetar, 'v' (non-violently) beat the cra* out of the commie-pakis howling there. Started the rout of 'Wendy's Children' and the 'RISA', Emory cartel of Limp Phallus Courtright and Joyce F., and Wendy herself, and the whole California rout of the Witzel/Harvard gang. BRF cannot take credit for anything here after the initial Kaushal discussions.
#8The recent Shiv-led threads (as all Shiv-led threads) have been goldmines. These are to "SD" what the early 1998-2000 nuke dhagas were to the Indian nuclear industry. Priceless!
#9: The Global Economy Doomsday dhaga :(( :(( . I have to give a personal 'Thanks!'. Anytime I want to damp down any Irrational Exuberance (copyright Friedman), all I have to do is to visit that dhaga. :mrgreen:
#10. BENIS. A whole language and way of thinking. Not since Mohenjodaro has Bakistani civilization seen such a revival.
11. And then there is 11: :eek: :shock: "Anmolization"

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Vikas » 23 Mar 2015 12:23

Other than Knowledge, one of the best things I have learnt from BRF is - How to construct a argument and how to identify BS when it is peddled in bombastic language.
BRF has also taught me patience when interacting with other folks in my professional life.

Last there is no problem in this world that I can face and not ask advice from Gurus in Nukkad and L&M dhaga.

Is there a way I can find my first post in BRF ?

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Re: BRF 15 years. let us look back.

Postby Sachin » 23 Mar 2015 15:29

Came back to this thread, after a long time. I have seen many a change in myself (may be due to BR, may be not).
1. Neutral to any political party in general, 15 years back I have now turned a 100% anti-commie. Reached to such an extent that I cannot associate any goodness in a communist. Such a strong headed attitude, did have problems in social media like Facebook & Orkut, where my own friends & relatives could not understand the hatred.
2. Neutral to any religion, 15 years back. But opinions have started changing, where I see certain religions either allowing/abetting terrorism, or assuming a role that they have the sole right to show the right way. BR helped me get more insight to the Bharathiya ethos.
3. When I started off reading BR, my main curiosity was always on the Military side. Over the last 7 odd years, that has got changed to the political and social threads in BR. The "military side", now is mainly the policing and intelligence related threads :).
4. BR Forums helped me to gain information from multiple sources, with their own analysis and thought points. This helps me a lot when discussing politics and military affairs with friends, who are not very much active on internet.


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