Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Rangudu
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Rangudu » 19 Dec 2003 21:21

Cross-posted.

BBC's European Press Review talks about Iran's Nuclear "compromise" deal.

The Swiss Le Temps, however, warns that the good news should not be allowed to hide "the disturbing fact" that the whole non-proliferation system is suffering "from a crisis of confidence... with some American political officials challenging the very principle of such a system".

The paper points to the fact that Tehran has been shown to have benefited from foreign - and specifically Pakistani - technology.

"Particularly heavy suspicions fall on Islamabad," it says, "and some do not hesitate to regard" Pakistan "as the third member of the 'Axis of Evil', now that Iraq has fallen".


Le Temps wonders if Tehran will be willing to put a complete stop to its production of enriched uranium, and concludes that "the Iranian nuclear file" is "far from closed".

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Div » 21 Dec 2003 03:43

Anyone see the interview of Harvard's Jim Walsh on CNN just a few minutes ago? Hilarious....

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Rangudu » 21 Dec 2003 03:49

Originally posted by Div:
Anyone see the interview of Harvard's Jim Walsh on CNN just a few minutes ago? Hilarious....
What'd he say?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Div » 21 Dec 2003 03:51

In his own words called TSP the biggest pusher of nuclear tech in the world. Mentioned that the nuclear non-proliferation treaty should be renamed the Pakistan non-proliferation treaty...didn't mince any words in making it clear that Pakistan (and not North Korea) is the biggest threat when it comes to proliferation.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby durvasa » 21 Dec 2003 03:58

Originally posted by Div:
Anyone see the interview of Harvard's Jim Walsh on CNN just a few minutes ago? Hilarious....
It was really neat. The anchor initially tried to move the discussion towards N Korea but Walsh kept reiterating the fact TSP is the center of proliferation. He must have repeated his charge at least half a dozen times..

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Rangudu » 21 Dec 2003 04:29

Div,

What was the program name?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Div » 21 Dec 2003 06:00

I think it was CNN Saturday Night with Carol Lin.

Waiting for transcripts to be added;
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2003.12.20.html

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby kgoan » 21 Dec 2003 06:37

The Paks spent oodles of time and money denying the facts. Now that they aren't deniable anymore, a possible new attempt to wheedle of the hook:

Individual violations of N-control rules
By Shakil Shaikh

ISLAMABAD: As comprehensive and intensive investigations got underway to pinpoint those who stole and sold the country's nuclear secrets for their personal financial glory, several top Pakistani scientists were found involved in nuclear proliferation only to jeopardise national security.

Informed circles say that recent debriefing of some scientists revealed that certain individual scientists of the country's top nuclear establishment might have breached the strict export control procedures by making unauthorised and irresponsible contacts with foreign nationals.

"In the process these individual nuclear scientists have been instrumental in leakage of information or components to foreign sources," said a source, who declined to disclose the name of a Dubai-based foreign individual (not Pakistani) who purchased loyalty of these scientists in lieu of hefty financial favours.

Senior officials said the case of Iran, now under investigation by International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), as well as the latest news of Libya's enrichment programme prompted Pakistani authorities to conduct thorough debriefing of certain scientists. The government has already acknowledged that fact.

In the recent past, Director-General Khan's Research Laboratories (KRL) Dr Farooq, Director KRL Yasin Chohan and two other individuals were taken into custody for debriefing.

"One of these scientists has given clear leads to the investigators. He is cooperating with the authorities and revealing the information relating to misconduct of some top scientists," the source told The News on Saturday.

Investigations and background informal chat with some top officials reveal that both Iranian and Libyan sources are confirming that they are telling the IAEA some untold stories of this nuclear proliferation and stolen components and drawings.

"We are more than convinced that these individual top scientists involved in Pakistan's nuclear-related entities have done all this proliferation and stolen national secrets in their lust for money and artificially-glorified life," said one top source.

An initial probe launched in the recent past following a spate of allegations against Pakistani entities of having passed on vital information linked with uranium enrichment process unearthed some basic solid proofs of the involvement of these top scientists in stealing nuclear secrets.

The living standards of some of these individuals, said the source, have been ostentatious and opulent indicating accumulation of wealth, which can come only through abnormal and devious methods. So much so, the fat bank balances and costly properties, including palatial houses, are considered a "definite indicator" of their misdeeds and ill-gotten wealth.

Some sources maintain that any "pilferage" of know-how would not have been possible without the connivance of the top management of certain research organisations. This, they believe, cannot take place in presence of stringent procedures and measures to account for classified and sensitive information and technology.

However, since Pakistan's open acknowledgement in 1985 of possessing an enrichment facility, some individuals might have gradually transferred some basic know-how, drawings or small components over the next decade or so purely in pursuit of personal greed.

The situation, following the initial probe, has reached to an alarming extent and the authorities are now considering conducting investigations of some of the top nuclear scientists who are otherwise revered by the nation.

In weeks to come, the government looks determined to weed out such corrupt elements from the country's strategic programmes to ensure that its national security and international obligations remain doubtless and beyond reproach.

"It will be a sad day for the country for these individuals may have violated the national trust and confidence by jeopardising national security," commented a top source. "However, the authorities are determined not to let the country's image and standing in the international community suffer on account of any individual."

Hectic assessment exercise is also put in place to gauge the damage these individuals might have caused to the country.

The ongoing probe and inquiry is also expected to focus not only on Pakistani nationals but also on a number of European sources and individuals without whose collaboration the illegal operations would not have been possible.
From: http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/dec2003-daily/21-12-2003/main/main1.htm

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby arun » 21 Dec 2003 08:19


Originally posted by kgoan:

Individual violations of N-control rules

Former Pakistani Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar on November 1, 2001 quoted in People's Daily :



"Pakistan has an impeccable record of custodial safety and security, free of any incident of theft or leakage of nuclear material, equipment or technology”

Apparently not impeccable enough a record.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Pulikeshi » 21 Dec 2003 10:53

What is the reason for TSP's aid to Iran other than the obvious monetary one? In the case of North Korea we know what they had to gain. What is the story with Iran?

Nuclear Program in Iran Tied To Pakistan

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Vivek_A » 21 Dec 2003 19:23

Originally posted by Pulikeshi Varma:
What is the reason for TSP's aid to Iran other than the obvious monetary one? In the case of North Korea we know what they had to gain. What is the story with Iran?

Nuclear Program in Iran Tied To Pakistan
It's better than you think...I just got back from the gas station/krispy kreme and saw the print edition. This news is displayed prominently on the upper half on the right. Lots of coverage for TSP.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Calvin » 21 Dec 2003 19:35

Looks like the Libyan program was buit around centrifuges (a Pakistani trademark), and we know that the Ku Wol San was headed to Libya and Pakistan when it was stopped at Kandla.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby arun » 21 Dec 2003 20:44

Originally posted by Calvin:
Looks like the Libyan program was buit around centrifuges (a Pakistani trademark), and we know that the Ku Wol San was headed to Libya and Pakistan when it was stopped at Kandla.
The tie in of the Libyan nuclear programme to Pakistan is already happening.

Joseph Cirincione on CNN :

We don't know yet if these were new centrifuges that they acquired recently, from Pakistan , perhaps, or just remnants of the old nuclear program that they had back in the 1980s, and back in the 1990s.
Added Later :

The 7.07PM artcle from Jung posted by Kgoan also alludes to a Pakistani Libyan Link :

Investigations and background informal chat with some top officials reveal that both Iranian and Libyan sources are confirming that they are telling the IAEA some untold stories of this nuclear proliferation and stolen components and drawings.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Rangudu » 21 Dec 2003 21:08

Okay, here are the transcripts of the Jim Walsh thing.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0312/20/cst.12.html

So what is Libya hoping to gain with its apparent show of acquiescence on its weapons programs? Jim Walsh is a Mideast expert with Harvard University. Thank you very much for joining us today, Jim.

JIM WALSH, MIDEAST EXPERT, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Good to see you Carol.

LIN: Well, it sounds like the fact that Moamar Gadhafi may have been trying to develop a nuclear weapon actually came as a surprise to you. Why is that?

WALSH: Well, I think most people who have studied Libya have doubts about its raw nuclear capability. It only has a small experimental research reactor. It doesn't have feedstocks. It is part of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, so there were inspections going on. So most of us who study weapons of mass destruction thought that the real jewel here that the Libyans had were their chemical weapons not nuclear weapons. And that is still more or less true. They did not have a full enrichment program. They did not have an enrichment plant. What they had was a couple of centrifuges.

But even that makes it a more interesting story, because as you raised in the last segment the real question here is where did they get him. They didn't have the capability to produce them themselves, so where did they get them. And if they got them from Pakistan, we don't know that, but if they got them from Pakistan that would make Pakistan the world's worst proliferator in the history of the nuclear age, having sold material to North Korea, to Iran and then finally to Libya. So that would be quite an eye opening revelation if, in fact, that is the case.

LIN: Jim, we are going to pick up on that point in just amount, but you raised two very interesting points. Number one, the fact that the international community had been watching any weapon development going on in Libya. Has is it that this nuclear program flew under the radar? And what does that say about the International Atomic Energy commission's ability to actually monitor these activities around the world?

WALSH: Well, it is a great question, Carol. And I think we are going to have to wait and see, because we still do not have the full inventory of what Libya had. But based on what we have heard so far, which is they had centrifuges, they had centrifuge parts. They had not build a cascade. They had not built a plant. In other words, they hand built a facility that would have allowed you to produce enriched uranium. Moreover, they had not produced any enriched uranium. That is the material you use for nuclear weapons.

So it is at that point that the IAEA, the International Atomic Energy Agency, probably would have been able to discover that activity. So they were at the early stages. It was really they were importing material and technology not building the facilities.

LIN: All right, your second point then, where do you think Libya was able to get the materials. You raise Pakistan, what about north Korea, Iraq? :D First of all, unlike most of those countries, they had a full functioning enrichment capacity. North Korea, to the extent that they have any at all, it is only in the beginning stages. Similarly, Iran has a pilot plant but again it is only recently developed that. [color=red]The number suspect has to be Pakistan.</font> And if that is the case, you know, the reason that we are concerned about North Korea, one of the reasons is that we are afraid North Korea will sell this technology to rogue states. [color=red]Well, it appears as though our friend Pakistan, again, we don't' know, but if it's true that our friend Pakistan has sold them to North Korea, Iran and Libya, what we need is not a nonproliferation policy but a Pakistan policy, because if it is true they are out of control. </font>
LIN: And if that were to be the case, then what should -- how should the Bush administration respond given its -- given its intent in Iraq, the war against Saddam Hussein to rid him of his weapons of mass destruction?

WALSH: Well, a lot of countries are going to wonder about this. We invaded Iraq. We threatened Iran. [color=red]But we don't say, boo, about Pakistan. It is like arresting the person who buys drugs and never arresting the pusher, the person who is selling the drugs. We seem not to be arresting the country that is selling the technology to other countries we don't like.</font> And part of that, you know, let's not kid ourselves, this is difficult because Pakistan is so crucial to the war on terrorism. We need Pakistan's help to defeat al Qaeda. [color=red]But at the end of the day, we cannot afford a country to be the worse country in history as far as selling sensitive nuclear technology to other countries. We have to do something even if they are helping us with bin Laden.</font>


LIN: Well, who was it who once said that there is no such thing as friends or enemies on the international stage only interests, Jim.

WALSH: It is certainly true in this case.

LIN: You bet. All right, thank you very much, Jim Walsh from Harvard.

WALSH: Thank you, Carol.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Calvin » 21 Dec 2003 22:15

Time to write an article about "Who controls the axis of evil?" Rangudu, you game?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Rangudu » 21 Dec 2003 22:22

Originally posted by Calvin:
Time to write an article about "Who controls the axis of evil?" Rangudu, you game?
Heh heh.

You bet!

Check your mail.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Pulikeshi » 21 Dec 2003 22:52

Calvin, Rangudu,

If you guys were going to be kind enough to write about TSP being the root of the axis of evil, it would be remiss of y'all to not implicate China/Saudi Arabia. TSP is certainly culpable of being a rogue state, but what excuse do China and Saudi Arabia have? China wants to be a super power and Saudi Arabia wants to be a role model for the world’s Muslim states! These states use TSP as a tool (drug pusher).

In drug pusher – user terminology, we should not forget the dealers (China and Saudi Arabia) that live in fancy boardrooms. The correct strategy would be to take on the guys at the top. The bottom will crumble out without direction. JMT.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Prateek » 21 Dec 2003 22:58

Originally posted by Calvin:
Time to write an article about "Who controls the axis of evil?" Rangudu, you game?
Who else other than the KSA and China! This might just lead to the Evil Pentagon I talked about since long here. China, KSA, Pakistan, NKorea and with Iraq gone it is either Iran or Syria. I will look forward to R's work on this. :)

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Rak » 21 Dec 2003 23:12


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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby durvasa » 21 Dec 2003 23:17

Originally posted by Pulikeshi Varma:
Calvin, Rangudu,

If you guys were going to be kind enough to write about TSP being the root of the axis of evil, it would be remiss of y'all to not implicate China/Saudi Arabia.
Nah! no need to implicate others. Just a passing mention of China/SA for objectivity sake. Let the focus be on TSP and TSP alone.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Arun_S » 22 Dec 2003 03:55

This news is on frontpage of SanJose Mercury News
Posting in full since it will lost in 7 days:

Pakistan link to Iran nuclear plan suspected

ATOMIC CAPABILITY WAS GAINED IN SECRET
By Joby Warrick Washington PostPosted on Sun, Dec. 21, 2003

VIENNA - Evidence discovered in a probe of Iran's secret nuclear program points overwhelmingly to Pakistan as the source of crucial technology that put Iran on a fast track toward becoming a nuclear weapons power, according to U.S. and European officials familiar with the investigation.

The discoveries prompted a decision by Pakistan two weeks ago to detain three of its top nuclear scientists for several days of questioning, with U.S. intelligence experts allowed to assist, the officials said. The scientists have not been charged with any crime, and Pakistan continues to insist that it never knowingly provided nuclear assistance to Iran or anyone else.

Documents provided by Iran to U.N. nuclear inspectors since early November have exposed the outlines of a vast, secret procurement network that successfully acquired thousands of sensitive parts and tools from numerous countries over a 17-year period.

While Iran has not directly identified Pakistan as a supplier, Pakistani individuals and companies are strongly implicated as sources of key blueprints, technical guidance and equipment for a pilot uranium-enrichment plant that was exposed by Iranian dissidents 18 months ago, government officials and independent weapons experts said.

Facility unnoticed
While American presidents since Ronald Reagan worried that Iran might seek nuclear weapons, U.S. and allied intelligence agencies were unable to halt Iran's most significant nuclear acquisitions, or even to spot a major nuclear facility under construction until it was essentially completed.

Although the alleged transfers occurred years ago, suggestions of Pakistani aid to Iran's nuclear program have further complicated the relationship between the United States and Pakistan, a key ally in the war against terrorism.

In documents and interviews with investigators of the International Atomic Energy Agency, Iranian officials have offered detailed accounts of how they obtained sensitive equipment from European, Asian and North American companies. Much of the equipment was routed through a transshipment hub in the Persian Gulf port city of Dubai to conceal the actual destination, according to officials familiar with Iran's disclosures.

China and Russia also made significant contributions to the Iranian program in the past, IAEA documents show. Both countries were the focus of a long-running U.S. campaign to cut off nuclear assistance to Iran.

The disclosures about Pakistan offer a striking illustration of the difficulties faced by U.S. officials in trying to detect and interdict shipments of contraband useful in making weapons of mass destruction. Iran appears to have obtained the equipment by exploiting a gray zone of porous borders, go-betweens, front companies and weak law enforcement where the components of such weapons are bought and sold.

Iran's pilot facility, which is now functional, and a much larger uranium-enrichment plant under construction next door are designed to produce enough fissile material to make at least two dozen nuclear bombs each year. The United States has sought for years to prevent Iran from joining the group of nuclear weapons states.

In a new finding, sophisticated laboratory tests by the IAEA detected traces of Soviet-made highly enriched uranium at Iran's Kalaye nuclear facility, a former testing center for uranium-enrichment equipment, knowledgeable officials said.

Wrong focus

It is unclear exactly why the United States and its allies failed to detect and halt Iran's most significant nuclear acquisitions.

One possible reason, according to some former government officials and outside experts, is that U.S. agencies were looking in the wrong place. American administrations since the late 1980s viewed the Soviet Union and then Russia as the most likely source of nuclear aid to Iran, launching intensive efforts to persuade Moscow to sever or scale back technological links to the Islamic Republic.

``For too long, we were running our Iran policy through Moscow,'' said Jon Wolfsthal, a non-proliferation expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. ``We saw Russia as Iran's main source of technology, and if shut off, the flow to Iran's program would freeze in its tracks. That was shortsighted.''

Former top U.S. proliferation officials contend that the attention paid to Russia was hardly misplaced. The United States foiled several efforts by Iran to obtain sensitive technology from Russia in the 1990s. But some officials acknowledged they were stunned to learn of the progress Iran had made with the help of partners closer to home.

Iran denies seeking nuclear weapons, insisting that it is only exercising its right to develop a civilian nuclear power industry, including its own indigenous supply of nuclear fuel. Russia is helping Iran build a nuclear power plant in the port city of Bushehr that both countries insist is a civilian nuclear project.

Doubts are already being voiced regarding whether the IAEA, or anyone, will be able to provide definitive answers about Iran's nuclear history and future intentions, said Henry Sokolski, a former Defense Department adviser on non-proliferation.

``What is most worrying is not what the Iranians did in the past, but rather, what they're going to do,'' said Sokolski.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby jrjrao » 22 Dec 2003 03:57

Abdul Qadeer Khan ‘restricted’
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_22-12-2003_pg1_2
ISLAMABAD: Certain “unspecified restrictions” have been imposed on nuclear scientist Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan following continuing investigations by the government into alleged links between some Pakistani scientists and Iran.

Daily Times has learnt that the movement of Dr Qadeer, who established Khan Research Laboratories at Kahuta, has been restricted and he is being “debriefed”.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby jrjrao » 22 Dec 2003 03:59

From above:
Mr Masood Khan reiterated that the government of Pakistan had never authorised :roll: any transfers of sensitive nuclear technology to other countries.

Sources claim that Iran has told the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) that a couple of top Pakistani nuclear scientists gave nuclear-related know-how and information to Tehran. “The president was shattered when Iran named some Pakistani scientists,” :whine: the sources said, adding that a detailed investigation was ordered by no less a person than General Pervez Musharraf himself.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Guest » 22 Dec 2003 04:01

Abdul Qadeer Khan "restricted".
ISLAMABAD: Certain “unspecified restrictions” have been imposed on nuclear scientist Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan following continuing investigations by the government into alleged links between some Pakistani scientists and Iran.

<hr>
DailyTimes Editorials: The ghost of proliferation: Libya, Iran.... and Pakistan
Islamabad has already taken note and is hurrying to make amends for some past carelessness :roll: .

The first charge of proliferation was laid at Pakistan’s door with the alleged North Korean connection. Then the IAEA found the Pakistani spoor in Iran. There are reports that Iran has been singing to the IAEA and some western governments about companies and middlemen that have been traced back to some individuals in the Pakistani nuclear establishment. The recent detentions of some top Pakistani scientists — euphemistically referred to as “debriefings” — prove that all is not as it should have been. The fact that some scientists might have jumped their national brief for financial or ideological reasons has been admitted in a roundabout manner by highly placed officials.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Guest » 22 Dec 2003 05:00

Given the Pakistani inclincation to be rouges in all departments from terrroism to proliferation - shouldn't the International Commmunity and the US demand a dismantling of the Paki nuke program as it is doing for Iran, North Korea, and Lybia. Afterall these last three states would not have an advance nuclear program, by their own admission, without Paki help.

I would think the US would want to rollback the Paki program to:
1) No Nukes
2) Sign the NPT
3) CTBT

or

1) Flatten their reactors
2) Make them nuke nude
3) Arrest all involved in proliferation
4) Make sure the 6 second delay is turned off this time when Mushy crosses the bridge
Any takers for this proposal?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby James Bund » 22 Dec 2003 05:56

Mr Masood Khan reiterated that the government of Pakistan had never authorised any transfers of sensitive nuclear technology to other countries.

Yeah like it never authorized Jihad in Afghanistan or Kashmir, Taliban, al-Qaeda in Afghanistan,Taliban dregs in Pakistan, Shia killings, Mohajir killings, Balwaristani killings, North Korea nukes, Kargil, Pearl's murder etc etc.

If Pakistan's dictators can't govern their country,why not dissolve this enterprise and ask their Islamic superiors in the Gulf, Iran,central Asia or Afghanistan to rule them as before.I am positve Pakistani Panjabis are not fit to rule.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Sam » 22 Dec 2003 05:57

Again it is Pakistan! :mad:

[url="http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3770729&p1=0"]Nuclear program in Iran tied to Pakistan
[/url]

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Kumar » 22 Dec 2003 07:04

Other question that might be of interest is whether Iran and Libya are trying to get back at Musharraf for some reason. Note that Iran's deal with IAEA allowing surprize inspections, and Libya's declaration regarding giving up its rudimentary nuclear capability, have given these two countries a lot of brownie points.

I suspect they were becoming increasingly suspicious/anxious with Musharraf that he may give in to US and spill beans about centrifuge transfers to Iran and Libya. May be Iran and Libya are just insuring themselves against an unreliable and unpredictable musharraf squealing on them. By squealing first, they are making sure it is Pakistan which will be seen as the bad boy.

If true, this means Pakistan's and Musharraf's credibility in the "Islamic world" is very low at the moment. Cheers to that.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Calvin » 22 Dec 2003 07:14

Nukes are such huge deterrents, countries do not go about cutting their noses to spite someone else. I'd suspect that the threats proferred by Uncle and the EU were such that the limited carrots appeared preferable to the alternative.

Our discussions should perhaps focus on what those threats are, and whether we would be able to deflect those threats if they were made to us.

Remember, neither Iran nor Libya were proliferating technology to others, but merely seeking to create a deterrent.

Therefore, I'd submit that the potshots that Musharraf is taking are being fired from Washington, not Tripoli or Tehran. This would probably indicate why Musharraf is being quite pliable on Kashmir and the terrorists in Kashmir. However, he is not pliable enough on the Afghan front, I wonder why, and whether that lack of pliability was related to the assassination attempt.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Neshant » 22 Dec 2003 07:48

has this been posted yet?

Pakistan, Saudi Arabia in secret nuke pact

By Arnaud de Borchgrave
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have concluded a
secret agreement on "nuclear cooperation" that will provide the Saudis
with nuclear-weapons technology in exchange for cheap oil, according to
a ranking Pakistani insider.
The disclosure came at the end of a 26-hour state visit to
Islamabad last weekend by Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdulaziz, Saudi
Arabia's de facto ruler, who flew across the Arabian Sea with an
entourage of 200, including Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al Faisal and
several Cabinet ministers.
Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud, the pro-American defense
minister who is next in line to the throne after the crown prince, was
not part of the delegation.
"It will be vehemently denied by both countries," said the
Pakistani source, whose information has proven reliable for more than a
decade, "but future events will confirm that Pakistan has agreed to
provide [Saudi Arabia] with the wherewithal for a nuclear deterrent."
As predicted, Saudi Arabia — which has faced strong international
suspicion for years that it was seeking a nuclear capability through
Pakistan — strongly denied the claim.
Prince Sultan was quoted in the Saudi newspaper Okaz yesterday
saying that "no military agreements were concluded between the kingdom
and Pakistan during [Prince Abdullah´s] visit to Islamabad."
Mohammad Sadiq, deputy chief of mission for Pakistan's embassy in
Washington, also denied any nuclear deal was in the works. "That is
totally incorrect," he said in a telephone interview. "We have a clear
policy: We will not export our nuclear expertise."
But the CIA believes Pakistan already has shared its nuclear
know-how, working with North Korea in exchange for missile technology.
A Pakistani C-130 was spotted by satellite loading North Korean
missiles at Pyongyang airport last year. Pakistan, which is estimated to
have between 35 and 60 nuclear weapons, said this was a straight
purchase for cash and strongly denied a nuclear quid pro quo.
"Both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia," the Pakistani source said, "see a
world that is moving from nonproliferation to proliferation of nuclear
weapons."
The Saudi rulers, who are Sunni Muslims, are believed to have
concluded that nothing will deter the Shi'ite Muslims who rule Iran from
continuing their quest for a nuclear weapons capability.............

Full report at http://www.washtimes.com/world/20031021-112804-8451r.htm

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Amber G. » 22 Dec 2003 08:41

Topmost news in New York Times:
Inquiry Suggests Pakistanis Sold Nuclear Secrets
lengthy investigation of the father of Pakistan's atomic bomb, Abdul Qadeer Khan, by American and European intelligence agencies and international nuclear inspectors has forced Pakistani officials to question his aides and openly confront evidence that the country was the source of crucial technology to enrich uranium for Iran, North Korea and other nations.

Until the past few weeks, Pakistani officials had denied evidence that the A. Q. Khan Research Laboratories, named for the man considered a national hero, had ever been a source of weapons technology to countries aspiring to gain nuclear weapons. Now they are backing away from those denials,

Calvin
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Calvin » 22 Dec 2003 09:21

Neshant, that is old news. More recently, it was reported that 3000 Pak soldiers were going to KSA, for unspecified reasons. Possibly to guard aforementioned nukes.

arun
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby arun » 22 Dec 2003 20:41

Originally posted by Amber G.:
Topmost news in New York Times:
Inquiry Suggests Pakistanis Sold Nuclear Secrets
From the above link:

There are also investigations under way to determine if Pakistani technology has spread elsewhere in the Middle East and Asia, but so far the evidence involves largely the exchange of scientists with countries including Myanmar.
Myanmar, the next named recipient of Pakistani nuclear technology?

BRites will recollect the case, dating back to 2001, of two Pakistani nuclear experts, Suleiman Asad and Muhammed Ali Mukhtar, wanted for questioning by the US for links with Al Qaeda being given asylum by Myanmar at the specific request of General Musharraf. The Link.

arun
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby arun » 22 Dec 2003 20:52

From Associated Press :

Pakistan Investigates Whether Its Nuclear Scientists Involved in Arms Proliferation.

And From Reuters :

Father of Pakistan bomb questioned over Iran link.

Pakistan's proliferation peccadilloes are certainly providing the momentum for a journalistic tour de force.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby daulat » 22 Dec 2003 21:06

what a world we live in! when the Colonel and the Ayatollah agree that giving up dodgy partial nukes in exchange for rehabilitation and lots of $ and Euros in trade is a good deal, our sole jehadi-general continues on the path resolutely towards the crack of doom!! Still pretending to be the leader of the ummah, when all the real TFTA Arabs have already written them off as 2nd class Muslims

With Libya on-side, and Syria almost in the fold - there will be no other Arab government officially against the US anymore. Iran seems keen to strike a deal. Looks like the spotlight shifts to KSA - and maybe the King can pull off some sort of liberalisation deal, leaving the final spotlight on Terroristan itself

the big chess pieces seem to be moving inexorably towards Check Mate?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Mudy » 22 Dec 2003 21:55

leaving the final spotlight on Terroristan itself
I think it is China. Master of all.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby laxmibai » 22 Dec 2003 22:08

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Here is Congressional testimony from October 1987.

http://www.nci.org/t/t102287.htm


In addition, failure to follow a forceful nonproliferation policy regarding Pakistan has potential significant, adverse consequences outside the region. Development of nuclear weapons by Pakistan could lead to the realization of an Islamic bomb. It is by no means clear that Pakistan, having taken the drastic course of producing nuclear weapons, would not choose to share such weapons or weapons materials and technology with other nations or elements of the Islamic world. The direct danger that such action would present to Israel and to the United States should be of paramount concern to the Committee.

Let me conclude by emphasizing that the United States' credibility is on the line. Although the President of Pakistan has publicly stated that his country is not producing weaponsgrade uranium, in fact U.S. intelligence information shows that this is not the case. Unless Congress takes meaningful action on the basis of this information --- action that gives Pakistan a clear choice between continuing its nuclear weapons program and continuing to receive U.S. military assistance --- the United States will be showing to the world that it is willing to look the other way, even in the face of incontrovertible facts, when there are gross violations of basic nonproliferation commitments. As matters now stand, the leader of a developing nation, standing outside the Nuclear Non- Proliferation Treaty, will have faced down the United States, blatantly lying about the nature of his nuclear program and correctly assuming that we will allow his deception to remain unanswered in the interest of "higher" U.S. priorities.


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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby jarugn » 22 Dec 2003 23:43


Rich
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Rich » 23 Dec 2003 00:12

Originally posted by jarugn:
Xerox Khan selling off his shirt along with nukes!

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/south/12/22/pakistan.nuclear/index.html
I t seems the Western media is bent on emphasizing the "individual scientists" tag so as to deflect any accusations away from Mushy. Still, this does not change the fact that Pakistan is a proliferator. Isn't it the government's responsibility to ensure that none of it's citizens actively participate in nuke proliferation, even if they are so called "eminent scientists"?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Div » 23 Dec 2003 00:16

http://www.nci.org/t/t102287.htm

Let me conclude by emphasizing that the United States' credibility is on the line. Although the President of Pakistan has publicly stated that his country is not producing weaponsgrade uranium, in fact U.S. intelligence information shows that this is not the case.
Oh, how ironic. Just replace the "not producing weaponsgrade uranium" with Mushy's 400% guarantee that Pakistan isn't a compulsive proliferator.


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