Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Rangudu » 23 Dec 2003 00:31

Shabash Foggies. Keep it up.

US believes Pakistan's vow not to shop nukes <img src="http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ubb/icons/icon11.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ubb/icons/icon11.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ubb/icons/icon11.gif" alt="" />

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher referred reporters to remarks made by Secretary of State Colin Powell in October 2002, after he addressed the matter with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.

"He assured us that Pakistan was not participating in any kind of activity of that nature, and I checked this morning and I would say that we continue to accept that assurance," said Boucher.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby jarugn » 23 Dec 2003 00:31


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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby b_ravi » 23 Dec 2003 00:43

Is it me or is the US actually not saying a thing at all about the mass nuclear proliferation. It appears that they don't seem to mind about WMD proliferation but rather the fear of these nations developing ICBMs.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby ldev » 23 Dec 2003 01:10

See, Mushy has given his 400% guarantee to the US that the Government of Pakistan has not officially sanctioned any proliferation. Seems awful like they are only extending moral and diplomatic support :roll: - ala Kashmir - to their scientists like Xerox Khan who are proliferating like crazy all over the world.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Vivek_A » 23 Dec 2003 01:43

Bush Doctrine Works: Pakistan Follows Libya in Bowing to U.S. Pressure

VIENNA, Austria – Libya has agreed to open its nuclear activities to pervasive inspection by the U.N. atomic agency as early as next week, a key step toward honoring a promise to scrap its nuclear weapons program, the agency's chief said Monday.
Also Monday, Pakistan acknowledged that some scientists participating in its nuclear program may have been involved in the proliferation of sensitive technology.

Pakistan Doesn't Want to Be the Next Iraq

Pakistan's government has strongly denied allegations it spread nuclear technology to countries such as Iran and North Korea but said it was investigating whether individual scientists acted without authorization.

"Some individuals may have been doing something on their own. We are investigating that," Pakistani Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed told The Associated Press in Islamabad.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Vivek_A » 23 Dec 2003 02:56

TOI rubs it in.. Cornered Musharraf turns a good boy

NEW DELHI: For several weeks, there has been speculation in New Delhi as to why Pakistan has changed its tone in its dealings with India.

Now, say officials, things have become clearer. The Musharraf-Jamali regime is being forced to confront mounting evidence of Pakistan’s irresponsible transfer of nuclear technology to a number of countries, some of them prominent in the American ‘‘axis of evil’’ category. The US is not amused. Actually, according to Indian diplomats, it is livid.

In 2002, South Korean intelligence came across evidence that Pakistan had transferred nuclear technology to North Korea in exchange for missiles that could hit India.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby A_Gupta » 23 Dec 2003 03:09

http://www.nci.org/t/t102287.htm

Let me conclude by emphasizing that the United States' credibility is on the line. Although the President of Pakistan has publicly stated that his country is not producing weaponsgrade uranium, in fact U.S. intelligence information shows that this is not the case.
Oh, how ironic. Just replace the "not producing weaponsgrade uranium" with Mushy's 400% guarantee that Pakistan isn't a compulsive proliferator.[/QUOTE]

In the 1980s, Pakistan played on its indispensability as a frontline state against the Soviets to get away with all this. Presumably this time, the frontline ally will not be able to play fast and loose.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby jarugn » 23 Dec 2003 03:09

Inquiry Suggests Pakistanis sold US down the drain!

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/22/international/asia/22STAN.html?pagewanted=all&posit ion=

WASHINGTON, Dec. 21 — A lengthy investigation of the father of Pakistan's atomic bomb, Abdul Qadeer Khan, by American and European intelligence agencies and international nuclear inspectors has forced Pakistani officials to question his aides and openly confront evidence that the country was the source of crucial technology to enrich uranium for Iran, North Korea and possibly other nations.

Until the past few weeks, Pakistani officials had denied evidence that the A. Q. Khan Research Laboratories, named for the man considered a national hero, had ever been a source of weapons technology to countries aspiring to acquire fissile material. Now they are backing away from those denials, while insisting that there has been no transfer of nuclear technology since President Pervez Musharraf took power four years ago.

Dr. Khan, a metallurgist who was charged with stealing European designs for enriching uranium a quarter century ago, has not yet been questioned. American and European officials say he is the centerpiece of their investigation, but that General Musharraf's government has been reluctant to take him on because of his status and deep ties to the country's military and intelligence services. A senior Pakistani official said in an interview that "any individual who is found associated with anything suspicious would be under investigation," and promised a sweeping inquiry.

Pakistan's role in providing centrifuge designs to Iran, and the possible involvement of Dr. Khan in such a transfer, was reported Sunday by The Washington Post. Other suspected nuclear links between Pakistan and Iran have been reported in previous weeks by other news organizations.

An investigation conducted by The New York Times during the past two months, in Washington, Europe and Pakistan, showed that American and European investigators are interested in what they describe as Iran's purchase of nuclear centrifuge designs from Pakistan 16 years ago, largely to force the Pakistani government to face up to a pattern of clandestine sales by its nuclear engineers and to investigate much more recent transfers.

Those include shipments in the late 1990's to facilities in North Korea that American intelligence agencies are still trying to locate, in hopes of gaining access to them.

New questions about Pakistan's role have also been raised by Libya's decision on Friday to reveal and dismantle its unconventional weapons, including centrifuges and thousands of centrifuge parts. A senior American official said this weekend that Libya had shown visiting American and British intelligence officials "a relatively sophisticated model of centrifuge," which can be used to enrich uranium for bomb fuel.

A senior European diplomat with access to detailed intelligence said Sunday that the Libyan program had "certain common elements" with the Iranian program and with the pattern of technology leakage from Pakistan to Iran. The C.I.A. declined to say over the weekend what country appeared to be Libya's primary source. "It looks like an indirect transfer," said one official. "It will take a while to trace it back."

There are also investigations under way to determine if Pakistani technology has spread elsewhere in the Middle East and Asia, but so far the evidence involves largely the exchange of scientists with countries including Myanmar. There have been no confirmed reports of additional technology transfers, intelligence officials say.

The Pakistani action to question Dr. Khan's associates was prompted by information Iran turned over two months ago to the International Atomic Energy Agency, under pressure to reveal the details of a long-hidden nuclear program. But even before Iran listed its suppliers to the I.A.E.A. — five individuals and a number of companies from around the world — a British expert who accompanied agency inspectors into Iran earlier this year identified Iranian centrifuges as being identical to the early models that the Khan laboratories had modified from European designs. "They were Pak-1's," said one senior official who later joined the investigation, saying that they were transferred to Iran in 1987.

Pakistani officials said the sales to Iran might have occurred in the 1980's during the rule of the last American-backed military ruler, Gen. Mohammad Zia ul-Haq. They acknowledge questioning three scientists: Mohammed Farooq, Yasin Chohan and a man believed to be named Sayeed Ahmad, all close aides to Dr. Khan.

A senior Pakistani intelligence official said Mr. Farooq was in charge of dealing with foreign suppliers at the Khan laboratory, run by Dr. Khan until he was forced into retirement — partly at American insistence — in the spring of 2001. At the laboratory, where much of the work was done that led to Pakistan's successful nuclear tests in 1998 and its deployment of dozens of nuclear weapons, Mr. Chohan was in charge of metallurgical research, according to senior Pakistani officials.

Contacted by telephone last week, relatives of Mr. Farooq said he was still being questioned. Mr. Chohan's family said Sunday that Mr. Chohan had been released and was at home.

Pakistani officials have insisted in that if their scientists and engineers had done anything wrong, it was without government approval. They said their bank accounts and real estate holdings were also being investigated. A senior Bush administration official, while declining to comment on what was learned when Pakistani officials questioned the men, said that all three had been "well known to our intelligence folks." Another official said the United States had steered Pakistani officials to the three, in hopes it would further pressure Dr. Khan.

Dr. Khan declined several requests in November for an interview, routed through his secretary and his official biographer, Zahid Malik. However, Mr. Malik relayed a statement from Dr. Khan that he had never traveled to Iran. "He said, `I have never been there in my life.' " A European confidante of Dr. Khan's, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the Pakistani scientist put the blame for transfers on a Middle Eastern businessman who he said was supplying Pakistan with centrifuge parts and, on his own, double-ordered the same components to sell to Iran. "There is evidence he is innocent," the confidante said of Dr. Khan in an interview. "I don't think he is lying, but not perhaps telling the whole truth."

Iran has insisted that all of its centrifuges were built purely for peaceful purposes, and last week it signed an agreement to allow deeper inspections.

But for 18 years Iran hid the centrifuge operations from the agency's inspectors.

In Pakistan, the disclosure of the investigation is already complicating the political position of General Musharraf, who narrowly escaped an assassination attempt a week ago. An alliance of hard-line Islamic political parties has already assailed him for questioning the scientists, saying the inquiry shows he is a puppet of the United States.

Any attack on Dr. Khan, hailed as the creator of the first "Islamic bomb," is likely to be seized by the Islamist parties as a major political issue. Many Pakistanis opposed the American-led invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as what is seen as the United States' one-sided support of Israel. Many also perceive the United States as trying to dominate the Muslim world — and through pressure on the nuclear scientists, to contain its power.

While General Musharraf was responsible for sidelining Dr. Khan nearly three years ago, he has also praised him. When the nuclear and military establishments of Pakistan gathered for a formal dinner early in 2001 to honor Dr. Khan's retirement, General Musharraf described him this way, according to a transcript of his speech in a Pakistani archive: "Dr. Khan and his team toiled and sweated, day and night, against all odds and obstacles, against international sanctions and sting operations, to create, literally out of nothing, with their bare hands, the pride of Pakistan's nuclear capability."

European and American officials have a different view of Dr. Khan, from his work from 1972 to 1975 in the Netherlands at a centrifuge plant, Urenco.

At the plant, Dr. Khan gained access to centrifuge designs that were extremely sensitive, records from a later investigation show. Suddenly, around 1976, Dr. Khan quit and returned to Pakistan. Not long after, Western investigators say, Pakistan started an atom bomb program that eventually began to enrich uranium with centrifuges based on a stolen Dutch design.

Investigators in the Netherlands found a letter he wrote in the summer of 1976, after having returned to Pakistan, to Frits Veerman, a technician friend at the plant. "I ask you in great confidence to help us," Dr. Khan wrote, according to an article by David Albright, a nuclear expert, in The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. "This is absolutely urgent."

Dr. Khan asked for help on how to etch special grooves on a Dutch centrifuge's bottom bearing, a critical part. The grooves were to aid the flow of lubricants. He also asked if Mr. Veerman might like to vacation in Pakistan "and earn some money at the same time?"

Suspicious, Mr. Veerman gave the letter to officials at Urenco. It was eventually used against Dr. Khan when he was put on trial in absentia in the Netherlands. In 1983, he was sentenced to four years in prison for stealing nuclear secrets. The conviction was later overturned, however, on a legal technicality.

By 1986, American intelligence had concluded that Pakistan was making weapons-grade uranium. And Dr. Khan was making no secret of his expertise: he published two articles that advertised his knowledge. He did so, he wrote, "because most of the work is shrouded in the clouds of the so-called secrecy" controlled by Western nuclear powers.

At around the same time, Iran made its secret deal and obtained basic centrifuge designs, the ones that now bear Pakistan's technological signature.

But it was in the mid- to late 1990's, as American sanctions tightened, that Pakistan made its biggest deal — with North Korea, American intelligence officials have said. Though Pakistan continues to deny any role, the laboratories are believed to have been the centerpiece of a barter arrangement of nuclear technology for missiles. South Korean intelligence agents discovered the transactions in 2002 and passed the information to the C.I.A. In the summer of that year, American spy satellites recorded a Pakistani C-130 loading North Korean missile parts in North Korea.

Earlier this year the State Department barred American transactions with the Khan laboratory because of the missile deal.

Pakistani officials say that since Dr. Khan's retirement, he has no longer been officially affiliated with the laboratory that bears his name. Still, one former Pakistani military official described him as a proud nationalist who saw himself as a Robin Hood-like character outwitting rich nations and aiding poor ones. Dr. Khan, he said, "was not that sort that would think it was a bad thing" to share nuclear weapons technology. "In fact, he would think it was a good thing."

David Rohde reported from Pakistan and Boston. William J. Broad and David E. Sanger reported from Vienna, New York and Washington.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Rangudu » 23 Dec 2003 03:14

Earthshaster's report on the brown pant issue.

Pakistan Observer has learnt from senior sources that President General Pervez Musharraf has expressed his dismay over the handling of this sensitive issue. He may intervene to put an end to the smear campaign being carried out by a section of press about Pakistan’s nuclear programme which is of defensive nature. It is learnt that the President has not really appreciated the way issue of de-briefing is being handled by authorities concerned. [color=blue size=0.5]Yeah Mush wants chaddy to be removed from front, not back</font>

Similarly the economic managers of the Government of Pakistan are also showing signs of uneasiness by the irresponsible reporting of the de-briefing issue. Sources in the Ministry of Finance say that Pakistan is striving hard to convince international donors particularly Japan to resume 500 million US $ bilateral aid which remains suspended from May 1998 after Pakistan conducted nuclear tests. They say Japan and other donors have been demanding effective command and control system and also water-tight export control regime. Pakistan’s case has become quite weak after these out of the context and frivolous reporting by the national press over the alleged nuclear proliferation by KRL scientists and the so-called de-briefing of some of the KRL scientists by the agencies concerned.[color=blue size=0.5]Say Good bye to the Japanese moolah</font>

In the meanwhile, <u>Patriotic circles</u> :roll: of all across the country have expressed shock and dismay at some derogatory reports published by a section of the press last week which amount to indirect mud slinging and character assassination of top nuclear scientists of the country. They said the sudden revival of the old tactics of anti-Kahuta lobby, which used to circulate imaginary stories of “Palaces” of Dr AQ Khan, the number of which has now been raised by this lobby from 3 to 29, synchronizes with the similar stories being published by western press.

These circles have questioned that even if there have been some cases of “pilferage” of nuclear know-how to Iran or any other country how it can be construed as having been carried out by the high-ups of KRL. [color=blue size=0.5]Because you guys say security is watertight. Samjhey?</font>Talking about the foolproof security system of the KRL and similar other sensitive establishments in the country, these circles emphasized that the KRL had been under the strictest security and vigilance of the Military Intelligence (MI) and how anyone, even at the junior level, could manage to take out some secrets of the Khan Laboratories? Secondly, if at all some individuals have indulged in passing proliferation of nuclear knowledge to a country, how such an act, though highly condemnable, can possibly jeopardize the national security of Pakistan. [color=red]Some exchange of nuclear information can strengthen the security of the receiving country but in no way it can weaken Pakistan’s security.</font> :eek: :eek: :eek: [color=blue size=0.5]What?!!!</font>

A senior source said that we need to appeal to the national press to refrain from carrying frivolous reports about the ongoing nuclear controversy. They are in fact lending credence to western assertions that Pakistan is an irresponsible nuclear state and that its nuclear assets might land into the hands of so-called “Al-Qaeda”. The very process of “de-briefing” of KRL scientists by government agencies has also been questioned by some very senior analysts saying that IAEA documents show that China and Russia made significant contributions to the Iranian nuclear programme in the past. Similarly some Indian scientists actively collaborated with the Iranians. “Never we have heard reports that China, Russia and India have arrested their scientists concerned”, they said adding that why Pakistani authorities are investigating Pakistani scientists and that too with the assistance of US intelligence officers? In the meantime, according to reports, the opposition in the parliament is planning to raise the issue of the so-called debriefings of nuclear scientists on the floor of the House. “When will this nation learn to respect its heroes” said a senior opposition leader who plans to spearhead the agitation in the National Assembly.[color=blue size=0.5]First get some real heroes, not Xeroxcopies of them :lol: </font>

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Philip » 23 Dec 2003 07:00

Here's another report.This report about Pak's proliferation also confirms what I've been warning members about for the last few years,the growing Sino-N.Korean-Pak nexus in supplying Burma with missiles to include in the future ballistic missiles,a nuclear weapons programme and the massive arming of the Burmese military with Chinese conventional weapons to counter India and to provide the logistic arm for the PLA's armed forces' future forays into the Bay of Bengal and the IOR.At the present time,there are reported to be hundreds of N.Korean military and technical personnel in Burma at various locations related to the various military programmes being pursued.The eqpt.is being secretly sent to Burma through China by rail to avoid another interception as was done by Indian naval vessels in the Arabian Sea of a Burmese merchantman carrying missile parts to pak in an earlier incident.Burma is rapidly becoming another "Israel" for China, as it describes Pak.Chinese chicanery has to be countered by more pro-active countermeasures in order to stall the Chinese frommcarrying out their devilish plans in our backyard.India must use the Tibet,Taiwan and Vietnam cards.It has stupidly almost thrown away these cards in ABV.s "Chinese gambit" ,which saw the Chinese still refusing to acknowledge Sikkim as Indian territory!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003 /12/23/wpak23.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/12/23/ixportaltop.html

Atom scientist questioned on rogue states link
By Ahmed Rashid in Lahore and Anton La Guardia, Diplomatic Editor
(Filed: 23/12/2003)

Pakistani intelligence officials are questioning the country's top atomic scientist about the alleged transfer of key technology to rogue states pursuing nuclear weapons programmes.


Abdul Qadeer Khan
Under pressure from America, Pakistani authorities have begun to investigate accusations that technology was passed to states such as Iran, North Korea and possibly Libya.

Pakistan's foreign ministry yesterday denied a newspaper report that Abdul Qadeer Khan had been arrested, saying he was "too eminent" for such treatment. But it confirmed that "questions have been raised with him".

A fuller statement is expected today.

Western governments now face an acute dilemma over how to handle Pakistan - privately regarding it as a prime nuclear proliferator and a centre for Islamist extremism but publicly supporting President Pervaiz Musharraf as a key ally in the war against terrorism.

Western diplomats say the US and United Nations nuclear inspectors would like to talk to Mr Khan, who is known to hold extreme Islamist views, and three other scientists.

Diplomatic sources say the Americans may demand the extradition of any suspects to the US.

Mr Khan is known as "The Father of the Pakistani Bomb" and is regarded as a hero by Islamist groups.

As a metallurgist working in the Netherlands, he fled to Pakistan in the 1970s amid strong accusations that he stole designs for uranium enrichment centrifuges from Urenco, a British-German-Dutch consortium. He was convicted of stealing secrets but this was overturned on appeal.

Pakistan has long denied reports that it passed on the know-how to others, saying it would make no sense to arm a neighbour and potential rival.

But when Iran grudgingly opened up its nuclear programme to international inspection this year, United Nations experts found that the centrifuges being built at a large plant in the town of Natanz were apparently based on one of the Urenco designs thought to have been taken by Mr Khan.

As the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) traces Iran's secret procurement network, Pakistan now appears to be establishing a second line of defence.

It claims that, while the present government of Gen Musharraf has kept a tight grip on its nuclear secrets, previous governments may have been more lax and individual scientists may have sold technology for personal gain.

America will be particularly concerned by any suggestion that Pakistan's military, which oversees the nuclear programme, knew about any such transfers.

The Daily Times in Lahore reported yesterday that President Musharraf was "shattered when Iran named some Pakistani scientists".

It quoted senior officials as saying Mr Khan was being "debriefed" about accusations.

But a spokesman for the Pakistan foreign ministry said: "Nobody is under detention. Two scientists are undergoing debriefing sessions.

"There are no restrictions on A Q Khan. He is too eminent a scientist for a normal debriefing session. However such questions have been raised with him."

He said suggestions that the US would be seeking extraditions were "wild rumours".

Although Pakistan initiated its nuclear weapons programme as a nationalist venture to counter India in the 1970s, Pakistani scientists, including Mr Khan, are well known for their Islamist views.

Mr Khan has criticised the US and the major powers for their monopoly over nuclear weapons and has portrayed himself as willing to help the underdogs in the Muslim world.

Several retired Pakistani scientists were questioned by the CIA after the September 11 attacks on America amid suggestions that they provided nuclear know-how to al-Qa'eda.

Two scientists who were running a charitable organisation to help the former Taliban regime in Afghanistan admitted meeting Osama bin Laden.

Questions have long been asked about Pakistan's role in nuclear proliferation. Western intelligence experts believe Pakistan provided nuclear technology to North Korea in the 1990s, in exchange for missile technology.

Yesterday The New York Times said Pakistan may also have provided nuclear technology to Libya, which has now promised to dismantle all weapons of mass destruction. Pakistani nuclear scientists have also visited Burma.

But Iran's dramatic disclosures to the IAEA are potentially devastating to Pakistan because they may provide verifiable evidence of a nuclear supply route.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Vriksh » 23 Dec 2003 07:17

Now even if the India and USA decide to help out the democratic movemnet in Burma then we need unequivocal support from Thailand and ASEAN.

We also need very massive landing fleets that can over run Myanmar junta. Second I full expect the Red army to rush down the Irrawaddy to provide "support" to the legitimate rulers.. Myanmari Junta. Thailand must be made to realize that only a democracy can help stabilze its borders. This could easily lead to a N.K S.K type situation. This is where we have to make the Chinese pay for all the trouble they have put our nation to. A 2 pronged pincer movement from the NE and a naval landing on Burmese shores should be created to stop the PLA in their tracks. However we will see an unceasing flow of arms from China into Burma and a lot of men too. Does India have the courage to sacrifice so that legions of SE Asians and Indians can live in a democratic region.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby durvasa » 23 Dec 2003 07:50

Originally posted by cshankar:
Now even if the India and USA decide to help out the democratic movemnet in Burma then we need unequivocal support from Thailand and ASEAN.

We also need very massive landing fleets that can over run Myanmar junta. Second I full expect the Red army to rush down the Irrawaddy to provide "support" to the legitimate rulers.. Myanmari Junta. Thailand must be made to realize that only a democracy can help stabilze its borders. This could easily lead to a N.K S.K type situation. This is where we have to make the Chinese pay for all the trouble they have put our nation to. A 2 pronged pincer movement from the NE and a naval landing on Burmese shores should be created to stop the PLA in their tracks. However we will see an unceasing flow of arms from China into Burma and a lot of men too. Does India have the courage to sacrifice so that legions of SE Asians and Indians can live in a democratic region.
Paranoia won't take you far!

I don't have any problem in living with a non-Dem Myanmar, for that matter even with a Mullah-ruled pakistan, as long as they mind their own businesses.

There is now a lot better understanding between India and Myanmar's current Junta than you seem to understand. India seems quite comfortable with cooperation shown by Myanmar and can live with it, despite obvious differences.

There are better domains and arenas where India should be rivalling with china.
Let Indian fight with China on the streets of myanmar, Afganistan and aisles of Walmart to sell goods, rather than battle PLA to make our neighbourhood democratic.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby jrjrao » 23 Dec 2003 13:45

Lead editorial in the NY Times today:

Pakistan's Nuclear Commerce
The United States has again been given good reason to wonder whether Pakistan is the trustworthy ally it claims to be. Fresh evidence indicates that it has sold nuclear-weapons secrets to Iran, North Korea and perhaps other countries over the years. Pakistan's military ruler, , insists that he stopped such sales after seizing power four years ago. Yet just last year, American spy satellites detected a Pakistani plane picking up North Korean missile parts thought to be part of a swap for Pakistani nuclear technology. The Bush administration must demand stronger controls over Pakistan's nuclear labs, which seem to have been central to the transfers.

General Musharraf, who narrowly escaped assassination last week, is a key to American policy in south-central Asia. The general supported America's war in Afghanistan and has helped arrest Al Qaeda fugitives in Pakistan. Yet it is not clear how fully he shares American objectives on fighting nuclear proliferation and international terrorism.

During the 1980's and 90's, Pakistan, although closely allied with Washington, was virtually a rogue state. It shared nuclear bomb technology with Iran and North Korea, sponsored terrorism in Indian-ruled Kashmir and backed the Taliban government that sheltered Osama bin Laden. General Musharraf has changed some of these policies. But Washington must pressure him to do more.

Washington should demand changes in other policies as well. General Musharraf's undermining of mainstream opposition parties has helped strengthen the Islamic parties that now rule areas along the Afghan border where Taliban recruiters openly operate. Containing Islamic extremism in Pakistan requires allowing mainstream opposition parties to function freely.

General Musharraf is again pledging to stop terrorists crossing into Indian-controlled Kashmir. Such vows are easily made in December, when infiltration routes are blocked with snow. An effective crackdown requires reining in army leaders who use the Kashmir issue to win higher military budgets than Pakistan can afford and local commanders who wink at border-crossing militants.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/23/opinion/23TUE1.html

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Vriksh » 23 Dec 2003 14:29

Hell No only the Paranoid survive. THis is a dog eat dog world. Burma is our sphere of influence, Indian buddhists other Indian religions ranging from Hinduism Sufi Islam have long been established there.

I have no wish to see a militarized opium growing Burma on our borders aiding the CCP-PLA in destabilizing our nation. Could you tell me one reason why the Chinese should be allowed easier access to ASEAN whereas our industrialists have to fight thru the insurgent infested NE/Burma/BD area in order to improve the lives of Indians.

Inherently our industries are far more efficient in generating money, and the Indian govt. has to ensure that the playing fields are level.

BTW now how long before TSP has to de-nuke itself and place its security in NATO/US hands. How can we help the USG in precipitating this most noble outcome?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby SSridhar » 23 Dec 2003 19:20

What happened to the two TSP nuke scientists who went to Myanmar immediately after the Afghan ops started ?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Rangudu » 23 Dec 2003 19:30

Originally posted by SSridhar:
What happened to the two TSP nuke scientists who went to Myanmar immediately after the Afghan ops started ?
The Wall Street Journal published an article last year that those 2 guys were helping with Mynanmar's nuclear program.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Hari Sud » 23 Dec 2003 20:50

If US has a worst enemy today, it is Pakistan. On one hand it smiles at US when billions of dollars are transferred to its account to prop it up from its economic mess. On the other hand, now we know, that it was Pakistani engineers who have been helping Iran, Libya and North Korea build nuclear weapons. Don't forget Pakistan is also supposedly helping US to catch Osma Bin Laaden and AlQaeda in Pakistan.

It is a worst nightmare coming true for America. Neither Osma will be caught, thanks to the rogue Pakistani Army and its intellelligence service and add to it the Pakistani Nuclear establishment nor US will be able to prevent AlQaeda from acquiring dirty bomb technology.

Where will this bomb in the hands of AlQaeda going to end up? It will be somewhere on US soil.

Pakistani strongman is pretending that he or his predecessors did not know.

Baloney

It was funds from Libya, Iran and North Korea which have been keeping the nuclear establishment in Pakistan alive and well for the last 25 years. The nuclear engineers in question have been under 24 hour army gaurd with layers of strict security ever since work on Pakistani Bomb started in 1978. The army knew every bit of their activities. US only discovered it two weeks back, That only when the Iranians decided to tell all or face the America's might next door in Iraq.

So what do we do know?

Libya has agreed to dismantle its nuclear plans, Iran is coming around. North Korea will toy around with the nuclear idea for a few more years until a bit more practical leadership in Peking tells the North Korean that enough is enough.

That leaves, Pakistan with nuclear technology & weapons and US's worst fears i.e. desire to sell the technology to the highest bidder. AlQaeda, if already does not know will be bidding for the technology using not even money but a simple logic i.e. religious fervor to teach America and non muslim world their worst lesson.

For America, the most urgent task today is to contain Pakistan.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby jarugn » 23 Dec 2003 21:14


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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby James Bund » 23 Dec 2003 21:21

You can kiss the 'Chenab' formula goodbye. :lol:

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Sam » 23 Dec 2003 21:41

You can kiss the 'Chenab' formula goodbye.
You never know. With historical tradtion of US Gov to deal with, reward or negotiate with dictators, Musharraf could still get away with murder.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby jarugn » 23 Dec 2003 21:47


Div
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Div » 24 Dec 2003 00:09

These nine absconding nuke scientists is old news...right? Same as this, I'm assuming.

http://www.2views.com/asianpost/newsframe.php?id=36

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby MurthyB » 24 Dec 2003 00:44

Just heard the talk of the nation piece on NPR exploring the Pakis proliferation activities. The sh** is really starting to hit the fan now, but they still persist in believing that Musharaff is trying to rein it in. It was gratifying to hear it openly said how the Pakis stole nucular technology from the Dutch tho :rotfl: . An Indian patriot came on and gave the BR spin on the pukes but I gotta say, when Ahmed Rashid is on implicating them, and they are discussing how pukes stole stuff, no need for us to muddy the waters and put them on the defensive, as it happened...The transcript will be available on the site later:

NPR Talk of the Nation - An investigation is under way in Pakistan to determine if some of its scientists were sharing nuclear secrets with Iran and other nations.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Arun_S » 24 Dec 2003 01:22

Abdul Qadeer Khan ‘restricted’

BTW if some of you remember about 3 years ago Abdul Qadeer Khan was removed from the helm (in house arrest) of Puki Nuclear establishment in main because he is an Ahmadia (A kafir by Sunni Islamist doctrine, even worse Kafir^3 by Wahaabi/Deobandi Islamist doctrine of International Islamist Federation (IIF) (whose founder members are Taliban, LeT, ISI, Al-Quaida etc. Osama Bin Laden is BTW the head of both IIF and Al-Quaida) after serving it utility. The official reason for house arrest was Quadir Khan's involvement in embezzlement

And another one:

Atom scientist questioned on rogue states link
America will be particularly concerned by any suggestion that Pakistan's military, which oversees the nuclear programme, knew about any such transfers.

The Daily Times in Lahore reported yesterday that President Musharraf was "shattered when Iran named some Pakistani scientists".
? brown pants?
Yesterday The New York Times said Pakistan may also have provided nuclear technology to Libya, which has now promised to dismantle all weapons of mass destruction. Pakistani nuclear scientists have also visited Burma.

But Iran's dramatic disclosures to the IAEA are potentially devastating to Pakistan because they may provide verifiable evidence of a nuclear supply route.


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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Vivek_A » 24 Dec 2003 03:39

Originally posted by pk_murthy:
Just heard the talk of the nation piece on NPR exploring the Pakis proliferation activities.
The audio is now available online. Click on the "Listen to Tuesday's show" link.

Ahmed Rashid just said there is no way the proliferation could have taken place without the paki military knowing about it.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Div » 24 Dec 2003 04:48

Originally posted by Rangudu:
Originally posted by SSridhar:
[b]What happened to the two TSP nuke scientists who went to Myanmar immediately after the Afghan ops started ?
The Wall Street Journal published an article last year that those 2 guys were helping with Mynanmar's nuclear program.[/b]
I think someone posted a link about this story...dang, I can't seem to find it.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Rangudu » 24 Dec 2003 04:54

What story Div? The one which said the scientists were sent to Myanmar or the one where they were found helping the Myanmar nuke program? I have both.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Div » 24 Dec 2003 04:56

I saw a link earlier today or yesterday...on one of these threads but didn't click on it. So I'm not sure.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Div » 24 Dec 2003 05:02

Originally posted by Vivek A:
Originally posted by pk_murthy:
Just heard the talk of the nation piece on NPR exploring the Pakis proliferation activities.
The audio is now available online. Click on the "Listen to Tuesday's show" link.

Ahmed Rashid just said there is no way the proliferation could have taken place without the paki military knowing about it.
The first caller nailed it on the head...way to go Harpreet from MI! Even Ahmed Rashid had to show his "true colors" to save some H&D.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Umrao » 24 Dec 2003 06:25

Folks>>
ONE OF THE EMINENT SOUTH ASIAN EXPERT HAS SAID/CERTIFIED ON THIS FORUM THAT
"PAKISTAN IS A RATIONAL NUCLEAR POWER FAR SUPERIOR TO INDIA IN MANY WAYS."

WHILE A LESSER PERSON HAD SAID

'THE ROAD TO NUCLEAR NON PROLIFERATION STARTS IN ISLAMABAD ENDS IN PONGYANG VIA BEJING' Spinster 1998

:D

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby arun » 24 Dec 2003 06:41

Originally posted by Div:
I saw a link earlier today or yesterday...on one of these threads but didn't click on it. So I'm not sure.
Are you perhaps referring to my post of Dec 22, 9.11 AM which had linked stories of the scientists going to Myanmar?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Vivek_A » 24 Dec 2003 06:45

http://www.drudgereport.com/

US/Russian Team Seize 37-Pounds Highly Enriched Uranium from Bulgarian Plant, WASH POST Planning To Report On Weds... Developing...

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Vivek_A » 24 Dec 2003 07:03

UN Security Council hails Libya's weapons move

In a statement, the Security Council called for quick action and urgent verification of the Libyan pledge, which came as Tripoli took another step towards ending its long years of isolation.

However, the AFP news agency says Pakistan - a nuclear power - blocked wording that would have described the Libyan move a "model" for other countries.
:rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Div » 24 Dec 2003 07:06

Originally posted by arun:
Originally posted by Div:
[b]I saw a link earlier today or yesterday...on one of these threads but didn't click on it. So I'm not sure.
Are you perhaps referring to my post of Dec 22, 9.11 AM which had linked stories of the scientists going to Myanmar?[/b]
Yes this was the one.

http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources/terroristNUKE.html

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Umrao » 24 Dec 2003 08:07

How Jokers can be threat to countries like India by unkils support.
***
US sings praises of Musharraf
CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ TUESDAY, DECEMBER 23, 2003 06:25:15 PM ]

Gen Pervez Musharraf

WASHINGTON: The Bush administration has said Pakistan's nuclear proliferation activities are all "in the past". The United States believes Gen. Musharraf's assurances that no transfers are going on at the present time. :p

The issue figured in both the White House and State Department briefings on Monday and spokesmen at both places certified that Pakistan's current assurances on the matter were credible.

"I'm not in a position to discuss those (past) matters relating to classified information and intelligence matter, but let me talk to the present," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.




"President Musharraf had assured us, that that (proliferation) is not happening now. And that's important."

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher reminded a questioner that Secretary of State Colin Powell had said in October of 2002 that he had had very specific conversations about proliferation with Musharraf "where he assured us that Pakistan was not participating in any kind of activity of that nature."

"And I checked this morning, and I would say that... we continue to accept that assurance," Boucher added.
Washington's resounding endorsement came amid doubts in several quarters, including within Pakistan, about how the so-called rogue elements could have leaked or sold nuclear secrets without the knowledge of the Pakistani establishment, given the strict tabs they kept on the top scientists now under interrogation.



RELATED STORIES

Pak grounds nuke scientists
Pak nuke boss grilled for leak
Pak scientists betrayed nuclear secrets: Report

One analyst pointed out in the Dawn newspaper that "all the Pakistani scientists associated with our nuclear programme, including Dr A Q Khan , had remained under 24-hour strict military surveillance all through the years since the programme was started."



One in-service brigadier had always remained at the side of Dr Khan during his waking hours and a French envoy was once beaten up for getting too close the nuclear establishment.

"So, with all that protection, it appears rather impossible for these scientists to have branched out on their own to set up their individual nuclear shops. They must have had help from some of their own protectors," the commentator said.



But Washington, which evidently pressured Pakistan's military establishment to probe the leaks and appears to have an inside track of the developments, continued to insist that that all was hunky dory.

Boucher said the US welcomed Pakistan's investigation and its debriefing of individuals who may have valuable information to convey.

"It's a further indication of the priority that President Musharraf has placed on ensuring that Pakistan's sensitive assets don't fall into the wrong hands," he added.

McClelland said the US will continue to work with Pakistan on a number of fronts, including the war on terrorism and "taking steps to make sure we're doing everything we can to stop the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction around the world."

( WHen vistors come from Dupleecity to Nai delli and talk of how dangerous Kashmir and NUkes can be, GOI the should ask them shut their traps and go back.)

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Jash » 24 Dec 2003 08:15

I will be not surprised if we find Nuclear program in all 57 OIC members (yes Umah brothers) countries thanks China via Pakis.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Umrao » 24 Dec 2003 08:29

At this rate TSP are the Pioneers of distributed processing (of HEU).

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby Kumar » 24 Dec 2003 08:30

A request to jarugn and others:

Please use URL buttons from the "Instant UBB Code panel" to post an url which substitutes a shorter name for the possibly very long URL. Otherwise the formatting of the page gets problematic.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby JaiS » 24 Dec 2003 12:42

Originally posted by John Umrao:
At this rate TSP are the Pioneers of distributed processing (of HEU).
It seems that Xerox labs ended up making a copy too many ( of URENCO centrifuges ).

Meanwhile,
TorontoStar - Atomic watchdog off to Libya

Nuclear inspections could start next week

Pakistan questions top scientist over leaks

GEORGE JAHN
ASSOCIATED PRESS

VIENNA—The head of the U.N. atomic watchdog agency said yesterday he'll lead the first inspection of Libya's nuclear facilities as early as next week, aiming to kick-start the elimination of the country's programs for weapons of mass destruction.

In the wake of Libya's surprise admission that it possesses such weapons, Pakistan acknowledged yesterday the possibility that some of its scientists may have provided nuclear technology to foreign countries.

And it said it has questioned the founder of its nuclear program, Abdul Qadeer Khan, as part of an inquiry into whether any scientists acted without authorization. "Some individuals may have been doing something on their own," Pakistani Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said.

Both Libya and Iran have imported centrifuges for uranium enrichment, although Libya says it stopped short of an enrichment program. Diplomats have identified Pakistan as one source of Iran's equipment procurement.

Khan is among a "very small number of scientists" who were questioned, but is not in custody, said a foreign ministry spokesman, adding, "no restrictions have been imposed on him." At least two scientists from Khan Research Laboratories, Pakistan's top nuclear laboratory named after its founder, have been questioned this month.

The Foreign Ministry told the Washington Post yesterday that two of the detained scientists, Mohammed Farooq and Sayeed Ahmad, are still "undergoing debriefing sessions'' while a third, Yasin Chohan, has been allowed to return home.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf has assured the United States that Pakistan is not currently offering technology related to weapons of mass destruction to Libya and Iran. The U.S. State Department said it continues to accept a similar assurance made by Musharraf in 2002.

Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said he'd lead the first inspection in Libya perhaps as early as next week.

Libya agreed to tell the IAEA about current nuclear programs, adhere to the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and sign a protocol allowing wide-ranging inspections on short notice.

McClellan said the United States expects Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi "to act on commitments he's made. And the initial signs are positive."

ElBaradei said much of Libya's technology came from abroad, but wouldn't say whether there was a common source for Libya, Iran or prewar Iraq. "We do not know yet whether there was any linkage with other nations," he said.

Diplomats familiar with the agency said ElBaradei and the IAEA were scrambling to play catch-up after being caught off guard by Libya's admission and its decision to scrap its weapons — the result of nine months of secret negotiations with Britain and the U.S.

Gadhafi's decision to come clean is the latest in a series of moves to end his country's international isolation and shed its reputation as a rogue nation.

The United States imposed sanctions in 1986, accusing Libya of supporting terrorist groups. While they remain in force, U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher yesterday dangled the prospect of improved economic relations. The U.N. Security Council voted to abolish its sanctions on Libya in September, after it agreed to compensate families of 270 people killed when Pan Am Flight 103 exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988. A former Libyan intelligence agent found guilty in 2001 of the bombing was jailed for life.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 14 Jan 2003

Postby daulat » 24 Dec 2003 14:47

unkil has been noisy about iran and n.korean de-nuking. iran signs up, n.korea is holding on for more $$$$ in exchange for surrendering their capability. and then 'suddenly' libya comes in from the cold.

All this wouldn't be happening unless the Roosies and Cheenies were signed up to this plan. So, it also would seem to me that there is a secret-unkil plan underway to de-nuke terroristan with the dragon's nod and wink (assuming that its not already happened - and what is going on now in terroristan is an H&D saving operation)


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