Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Bharat
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Bharat » 05 Jan 2004 02:17

If Pakistan has been denuked then the non proliferation Gurus would expect India to be presurrised next. But right now Iran, NK, and Libya are the nations on the radar.
It would be very tough for GOTUS to get the Indian Nuclear forces rolled back. The amount of nuclear infrastructure in India is growing in the sense of technology,personnel and literature. Also the Indian goal of having a nuclear front is to deter China and place us in an equal footing with other Nuclear nations exception of US, Russia.
The Indian Thought pool is now churned towards a geopolitical leadership role with strong economic and military roles. There is also a lot of thought in the US geostrategic arena that India would be a strong ally in the Asian continent. We straddle the important sea routes and also land routes.

We would be a strategic competitor to China which would be to US liking. In case of denuking India then we would definitely succumb to Chinese pressures on critical policies which would make China the undisputed leader in Asia.

With Iran,NK and Libya having Pak connections for the Bomb one wonders what is bringing all these facets out at this point of time. Maybe GOTUS is pressurizing Mush to act further or preparing a fertile ground to take immediate action. I am sure GOTUS is having a life indicator on Mush to take out Pak nukes at any given point of time.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Gerard » 05 Jan 2004 03:33

So, Israel can afford to have an overt de-nuking safe in the knowledge that her enemies must always take into account the US protective umbrella.
I don't see Israel accepting this.
The Jewish lobby in the USA is also too powerful for this to fly.

This is the nation that developed nukes in defiance of US, that constructed a whole facility to deceive the US, that attacked a US navy warship.
The ultimate guarantee of Israel's existence will not be exchanged for a US umbrella that can be withdrawn at will.

I think the memory of the holocaust and their masada complex will ensure that their nukes remain.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby abrahavt » 05 Jan 2004 03:39

I doubt that Israel will be denuked. The US interest is primarily in seeing Iran, NK and Libya denuked along with the covert denuking of TSP to allow them to save face. Wish someone had a better idea of how far the US come in their covert operation because we see conflicting reports. Some say the Pak nukes are safe (implying US control?) others reports say that the US is worried because it doesn't know where the nukes are hidden.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Sam » 05 Jan 2004 04:23

US is the only nation on earth that has ever used the nukes on another nation, twice.

Considerations for 'denuking' will depend on the stated usage e.g. 'first use' by Pakistan and the (jock) 'itch' factor ;) which every Arab nation has when it comes to Israel.

IOW Pakistan, Iran, NK are prime candidates for denuking.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Gerard » 05 Jan 2004 06:47

BBC profile of A. Queer Khan
Profile: Abdul Qadeer Khan

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Philip » 05 Jan 2004 06:47

Here's more acute embarrassment for Pak and its proliferating tribes!However,the evidence has been staring the world in the face for decades.it is only now that the US is revealing what it always knew.Had the various US govts been hard on Pak from Zia's time,we would not be in the situation that we are.All these years the US just turned a blind eye to the Sino-Pak-N.Korean-Saudi nuclear weapons-missile axis through cretins like Clinton and Madeline"Halfbright".It is only when a US ally has been discovered to have gone too far does the US then turn on him,as it did with Saddam Hussein!It is now too late.The genie was out of the bag a long time ago.With Khan & Co. peddling their nuclear wares for decades through open brochures one can only imagine who has obtained such wares from Paki labs?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/05/wpak05.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/01/05/ixportal.html
Nuclear weapon 'brochure' adds to US dilemma over Musharraf
By Alec Russell in Washington
(Filed: 05/01/2004)

Pakistan faced embarrassment yesterday with the publication of a sales brochure from its top-secret nuclear facility, apparently hawking technology and components to would-be nuclear powers.

The brochure from the AQ Khan Research Laboratories, the centre of Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme, has an official-looking seal on the cover saying "Government of Pakistan".


Nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan
Its publication in The New York Times yesterday undercuts Islamabad's claims that any transfer of its nuclear technology to rogue states has been the work of individuals.

It also highlights the dilemma of President George W Bush's administration over how to tackle a country that is an ally in the fight against global terrorism and yet also increasingly appears to be at the centre of the murky world of nuclear proliferation.

Pakistan last month conceded that its technology and expertise may have helped the nuclear programmes of "rogue" states, including Iran and North Korea and possibly Libya, but blamed this on individuals motivated by "ambition or greed".

Yesterday's leak, on the eve of important talks between India and Pakistan, prompted speculation in Pakistan that it was deliberately timed to put pressure on President Pervaiz Musharraf to make concessions over the long-running dispute over Kashmir.

The brochure carries a photograph of the "father" of the Pakistani nuclear bomb, Abdul Qadeer Khan, and will once again draw attention to the shadowy international marketing role of the mastermind of Pakistan's three-decade-old nuclear project.

Mr Khan was formerly a leading figure at the Khan Research Laboratories in Kahuta, where Pakistan's own bomb was developed. This has been linked to the transfer of nuclear expertise and technology to Iran in the 1980s and 1990s and North Korea as recently as 2002.

Pakistan's foreign ministry said last month that Mr Khan was one of four nuclear scientists being "debriefed" after Iran told the United Nations nuclear watchdog that it obtained uranium enrichment centrifuges, a vital part of nuclear weaponry, from Pakistan in the late 1980s.

Mr Khan, who is believed to have visited North Korea 13 times since 1997, is a hero in Pakistan and his history of religious statements has led to his lionisation by the Islamist parties that snap at Gen Musharraf's heels.

"All Western countries," Mr Khan was once quoted as saying, "are not only the enemies of Pakistan but in fact of Islam."

According to The New York Times, before Pakistan tested its first bomb in 1998, Mr Khan and his colleagues began publishing papers on making and testing uranium centrifuges that in the West would have been deemed highly classified.

Administration officials have long repeated claims by their Pakistani counterparts that their nuclear export industry, if it ever existed, is now over.

But the publication of the brochure further undermines the credibility of those assurances.

Mr Bush has made the fight against nuclear proliferation a goal of his presidency but, like his three predecessors, has shrunk from criticising Pakistan for fear of destabilising an ally. He has never cited Pakistan's laboratories in the context of proliferation and publicly remains stalwart in his support for Gen Musharraf.

24 December 2003: Greedy scientists 'sold nuclear secrets'

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Rangudu » 05 Jan 2004 07:31

From The Sunday Times (London).

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-951183,00.html

Gadaffi's nuclear deal with Pakistan

THE son of Colonel Muammar Gadaffi revealed yesterday that Libya bought plans to make a nuclear bomb from Pakistani scientists for “millions of pounds”. Saif al-Islam Gadaffi said that the country had spent $40m on its quest to acquire nuclear capability. Some of the “five-star Libyan scientists” working on the bomb had trained in Britain.

He also revealed that Britain would be involved in training and re-equipping the Libyan army as part of a historic deal announced by Tony Blair before Christmas under which Tripoli pledged to give up its nuclear and chemical weapons programmes.

He said there would be “no problem” with British or US troops being stationed in Libya, adding: “We are giving up our weapons so we need an international umbrella for protection.”

Revelations of the extent of Pakistani involvement look certain to increase American and British pressure on President Pervez Musharraf, who already stands accused of failing to prevent the illicit sale of nuclear material to Iran.

Pakistan admitted last week that “rogue scientists” may have peddled technology for “individual gain”. It said that several had been questioned, among them Abdul Qadeer Khan, a fundamentalist sympathiser regarded as the “father” of the country’s nuclear bomb. Several of his colleagues have been detained for interrogation.


In an interview in his Tuscan-style villa on his farm east of Tripoli, Saif Gadaffi, 32, confirmed that Libya had bought nuclear components, including centrifuges, from a variety of black market dealers.

Some of the material came from Malaysia and various Asian countries, he said. Other components had been bought on the black market in South Africa. “We dealt with an underground network of middle men and secret workshops,” he said. “This piece from here, that piece from there.”

Dressed in traditional gold silk Libyan robes and a checked turban, he spoke excitedly of a “new page in Libya’s history” and revealed how he had worked as a “trouble shoooter” in talks that alternated between London and Tripoli.

“I was able to take messages to my father and explain to him. By the end we had a good relationship with the CIA, MI6 and all the Americans and British,” he said. His father had needed reassurance, though, that they were not secretly pushing for “regime change”.

“Once they assured us that they did not, everything went forward.”

Saif Gadaffi said he now expected Libya to open up, with BAE Systems and British Petroleum coming to the country for “big deals”.

A senior Arab source revealed that some of the components for the Libyan nuclear programme were bought in Dubai and shipped to Libya. Dubai has hitherto been thought of as a transit point for illicit goods from Iran and other countries. This is the first time it has been accused of selling nuclear components.

It also emerged this weekend that Libya appeared to have begun the process of enriching uranium, indicating that Gadaffi was far closer to making a nuclear device than hitherto thought.

British and American experts who went to inspect Libyan weapons sites were taken aback when they found that nuclear scientists working for Gadaffi had what one western official described as a “full bomb dossier” from the Pakistanis.

Western officials said that the Pakistani scientists had received the payments from Libya — which they said could have been substantially higher, even as much as $100m — over several years, starting in the late 1990s. They appeared to have been working on their own account, without the knowledge of the authorities in Islamabad.

The key role played by Pakistani scientists in the Libyan programme will nevertheless prove extremely embarrassing for Musharraf and will strengthen demands from hawks in Washington for a firmer line.

“We should get tougher,” said Kenneth Adelman, a member of the Pentagon’s defence policy board and an adviser to Ronald Reagan when he was president. “It’s clear that Pakistan has been promiscuous over nuclear issues. It was true under General Zia, under Benazir Bhutto and under President Musharraf.”

Mahnaz Ispahani, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, said an American aid package for Pakistan that was due to be discussed by Congress could now come into question.

“This is the moment of decision,” said Ispahani, who has just returned from a visit to Pakistan. “Some members of Congress are going to ask: are we rewarding a proliferator?”


The revelation is just part of a treasure trove of information disclosed to a joint American-British team that inspected Libya’s nuclear, chemical and biological programmes during nine months of negotiations. The talks ended with Gadaffi’s agreement on December 19 to give up his weapons of mass destruction.

According to one senior western diplomat based in Tripoli, experts were startled to discover how advanced the country’s nuclear programme was.

Libya had a “uranium enrichment programme actually in progress,” the diplomat said. “They (the centrifuges) had been taken out of their cases.”

This contradicts assertions by Mohamed El Baradei, director-general of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), who led a delegation to Libya last week.

He described its nuclear programme as a “low-level, small-scale testing of enrichment equipment” that consisted of “nothing really special . . . mothballed and in containers”.

The western diplomat said El Baradei’s agency would not necessarily know the truth since its inspectors had visited only four sites near Tripoli. The American-British team, by contrast, had gone to more than 10.

The difference in opinion could foreshadow a clash. El Baradei wants inspections and the dismantling of the Libyan weapons of mass destruction to take place under the auspices of the IAEA. Washington is insisting that an expanded team of British and American intelligence officials and nuclear experts should take charge of the disarmament.

The American-British team had planned to return this month, although the squabbling may further complicate how the disarmament of Libya will proceed.

Shukri Ghanim, the de facto Libyan prime minister, said that Libya considers the IAEA to be in charge. “We will act according to the international agreement we signed,” he said in an interview. “Mr El Baradei can include Americans and British on his team. These are not tourist sites that anyone can come and visit.”

Saif Gadafi said Libya would allow El Baradei to do whatever he thought best with the components of the nuclear programme — destroy, dismantle or even remove them from the country. Libya, he added, would like to be paid for anything it turned over.

Whatever the next steps, there is no underplaying the drama of Gadaffi’s sudden about-face, which was born of the Libyan leader’s need for western economic help to revive his country’s economy.

“The agreement we made was not just for disarmament,” Saif Gadaffi said. “It’s a package deal. The Americans and British promised they would help us reform our economy.”

Britain is to send a team of economic experts to Libya this month for a “round table” on economic changes.

The first steps towards the deal were made last March when Musa Kusa, the Libyan head of external intelligence, approached Britain and said his country would be ready to negotiate. The meetings that followed were conducted with caution on the British side.

Matters came to a head in October when the Americans seized a German cargo ship destined for Libya and carrying thousands of parts for the centrifuges that purify uranium for nuclear warheads. “They knew everything,” Saif Gadaffi admitted.

The deal done in December went down to the wire. Anthony Layden, the British ambassador to Libya, was faxed the hand-written statement with last-minute notations by Tony Blair hastily scribbled in the margins. He had to watch on television and make sure that every word was uttered.

While Libya co-operates, international attention is turning to Pakistan and what can be done to curb its role in nuclear proliferation. The problem is complicated, however, by the desire not to do anything to destabilise Musharraf.

A vital ally in the war against terror and the hunt for Osama Bin Laden, the Pakistani leader has survived two assassination attempts — apparently by Islamic extremists — in the past month. Musharraf, an army general who seized power in 1999, had promised Washington he would secure Pakistan’s nuclear secrets, but the evidence suggests he has failed to do so.


The problem is compounded by the presence of powerful figures in the country’s security apparatus who are deeply critical of Musharraf’s policy of alignment with America.

Donald Anderson, chairman of the Commons foreign affairs select committee, said it was clear that the president had not been involved in dealings with Iran and hoped “his fingerprints” were not on the trade with Libya.
:roll:
North Korea, meanwhile, is expected to face a stark new ultimatum from America, Japan and South Korea to dismantle all its nuclear facilities.

Back in Libya, Saif Gadaffi denied reports that he is the heir apparent — although that seems disingenuous given his political charisma and studies in “global government” at the London School of Economics.

“My father wants me to be a professor,” he said. “It’s his dream.”

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby jrjrao » 05 Jan 2004 16:28

Writing in response to this stern editorial from the St. Petersburg (Florida) Times, the pretty Ms. Ali fumes thus:
The following is my response to St. Petersburg editorial on Pakistan ...

Please note that;

1. There is no such evidence that Pakistan has sold nuclear know how to Iran and North Korea in officail capacity. Pakistan can not be held responsible for activities by individuals (if any, and there is no concrete evidence for that either). American media outlets must stop this irresponsible propaganda. :)

2. .....

3. I agree the with the editorial that Washington must continue it support for Musharraf and Pakistan.... What it needs from the US is more investment, trade, and removal of discriminitory quotas, specially in textile sectors.
First, lie. Then, make unbelievable excuses. And then demand baksheesh... Nicely Paki...

http://www.paknews.com/letters.php?id=2&date1=2004-01-05

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby jrjrao » 05 Jan 2004 18:46

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/05/wpak05.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/05/ixnewstop.html]Nuclear weapon 'brochure' adds to US dilemma over Musharraf
[/url]

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Vivek_A » 05 Jan 2004 19:12

Nothing to see here...just saudis with paki nukes. The saudis would never do anything to hurt America, would they?

Saudi nukes

The Saudis have a pool of strategic interests that likely put them at odds with American counterproliferation policy. Riyadh's major regional rivals are capable, or soon will be, of threatening the Saudi kingdom with nuclear brinkmanship; Israel has the most formidable nuclear weapons capabilities in the region; Iran appears bent on acquiring nuclear weapons; and Iraq might resurrect a nuclear weapons program after the Americans depart Baghdad. The Saudi royals might also worry that the United States could become a threat to the kingdom. The Saudis, for example, might consider a scenario in which relations between Riyadh and Washington deteriorate into conflict over the methods and means to combat al Qaeda. The Saudis realize that their conventional military capabilities—notwithstanding their modern weapons inventories—would be hard-pressed to defend against the larger military manpower pools in Iran or Iraq or against the sophisticated technological capabilities of the Israeli or the American militaries. In short, the Saudis would be strategically sensible to look to nuclear weapons as a potential "quick fix" to keep rivals at bay.
The Saudis already have in place a foundation for building a nuclear weapons deterrent. In the mid-1980s, they clandestinely negotiated the purchase of about 50 to 60 Chinese CSS-2 missiles. The Chinese and Saudis were able to complete the deal before American intelligence was wise to the relationship. The Saudis paid handsomely, with about $3 billion to $3.5 billion dollars for the Chinese missiles capable of reaching up to about 4,000 kilometers (2,500 miles).
[/quote]

Doesn't this violate the MTCR? Or do the commie rats have a "get out of treaty obligations" card?

[quote]
The CSS-2s had been armed with nuclear warheads when they were operational in the Chinese force structure, but Riyadh and Beijing claim that the missiles delivered to Saudi Arabia were armed with conventional warheads and rebuffed U.S. requests to inspect the missiles. The CSS-2 missiles, however, are too inaccurate to be militarily effective with conventional munitions, but more than accurate enough for the delivery of nuclear weapons. It is well past time for Washington to renew calls for independent inspection of the Saudi missiles to ensure that they are armed as the Chinese and Saudis claim, and that ballistic missile modernization efforts are not underway.
Even if the Chinese refrained from selling nuclear warheads to the Saudis as part of the missile deal, Beijing and Riyadh could look to Islamabad to work around their ostensible commitments to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. The Chinese are suspected of past provision of nuclear weapons designs to Pakistan, and the Pakistanis might be able to tap their Chinese-honed nuclear weapons expertise to design a warhead suitable for the Saudi CSS-2s. Recent public exposures of Pakistan's willingness to provide expertise to the nuclear weapons programs in North Korea, Iran and possibly Libya show that Islamabad's view toward nuclear weapons proliferation equates to "show me the money." Riyadh was willing to pay the Chinese lucratively for the CSS-2s and no doubt would be similarly generous in subsidizing Pakistan's nuclear weapons program in exchange for nuclear warheads.
Recent high-level official travels between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan lend some evidence of ballistic missile and nuclear weapons cooperation. Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah traveled to Pakistan in October 2003 and reportedly secured a secret agreement with President Pervez Musharraf, under which Pakistan will provide the Saudis with nuclear weapons technology in exchange for oil. The crown prince sent one of his sons to Pakistan in May 2002 to view a Pakistani ballistic missile test. And earlier still, Saudi Defense Minister Prince Sultan in May 1999 visited a Pakistani uranium enrichment facility. American intelligence officials are dismissive of "stories" of Saudi-Pakistani nuclear cooperation, citing the "absence of evidence."
Such a conclusion implies reasoning along these lines: If a tree falls in the forest and doesn't land on a CIA agent's head, the tree didn't fall. :rotfl: :rotfl: Unfortunately, the CIA's failure to detect the Saudi-Chinese missile deal, much like its more recent failure in 1998 to anticipate the Indian nuclear test that set off the arms race in South Asia, shows that trees are falling throughout the nuclear proliferation forest, but that the CIA's agents are too few and far between not to get hit on their heads.
American intelligence has to work with a blend of humility in the face of raw intelligence shortcomings—especiallyfromhuman sources—and an analytic toughness to push intelligence collectors to fill gaps to ensure that Saudi nuclear weapons mounted on ballistic missiles will not come to be just another entry on a longer list of intelligence failures.

Richard L. Russell is an adjunct assistant professor in the Security Studies Program at Georgetown University.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Kuttan » 05 Jan 2004 20:08

Wow!
Lets see the reasoning here:

In the mid-1980s, they clandestinely negotiated the purchase of about 50 to 60 Chinese CSS-2 missiles. The Chinese and Saudis were able to complete the deal before American intelligence was wise to the relationship. The Saudis paid handsomely, with about $3 billion to $3.5 billion dollars for the Chinese missiles capable of reaching up to about 4,000 kilometers (2,500 miles).

... The CSS-2s had been armed with nuclear warheads when they were operational in the Chinese force structure, but Riyadh and Beijing .. rebuffed U.S. requests to inspect the missiles. The CSS-2 missiles, however, are too inaccurate to be militarily effective with conventional munitions, but more than accurate enough for the delivery of nuclear weapons.

..Even if the Chinese refrained from selling nuclear warheads to the Saudis as part of the missile deal, Beijing and Riyadh could look to Islamabad to work around their ostensible commitments to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. The Chinese are suspected of past provision of nuclear weapons designs to Pakistan, and the Pakistanis might be able to tap their Chinese-honed nuclear weapons expertise ..
Recent public exposures of Pakistan's willingness to provide expertise to the nuclear weapons programs in North Korea, Iran and possibly Libya show that Islamabad's view toward nuclear weapons proliferation equates to "show me the money." Riyadh was willing to pay the Chinese lucratively for the CSS-2s and no doubt would be similarly generous in subsidizing Pakistan's nuclear weapons program in exchange for nuclear warheads.
.. And earlier still, Saudi Defense Minister Prince Sultan in May 1999 visited a Pakistani uranium enrichment facility."
BUT now look what thie Einstein who claims to be..

Richard L. Russell is an adjunct assistant professor in the Security Studies Program at Georgetown University.
sees as the root cause of the arms race in "South Asia":

Unfortunately, the CIA's failure to detect the Saudi-Chinese missile deal, much like its more recent failure in 1998 to anticipate the Indian nuclear test that set off the arms race in South Asia, shows that..
And THIS is the genius who will save the CIA from its flawed reasoning ability. :roll: Another **** from tubelightabad.

What's with this Georgetown dUmp anyway?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Vriksh » 05 Jan 2004 20:28

Isn't Georgetown is home the US Army officer training school.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Umrao » 05 Jan 2004 20:31

What's with this Georgetown dUmp anyway?
Many a South Asian expert has had indoctrination in that esteemed university. What to do?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby JE Menon » 05 Jan 2004 21:18

I've heard that the quality of intellect there has declined since the departure of Madeleine Albright :)

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Leonard » 05 Jan 2004 21:29

May be All those De-CLASSIFIED BROCHURES from PENTAGON's JIHADI ARCHIVES ??? :D :D

must be used for

a. DIA Research Grants/Proposals
b. NSC analysis Papers :p

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Umrao » 05 Jan 2004 21:31

Gaddafi son confirms Pakistan nuke link

PRESS TRUST OF INDIA
LONDON, JANUARY 4: Libya bought plans to make a nuclear bomb from Pakistani scientists for ‘‘millions of pounds’’, Saif al-Isalm Gadaffi, son of Libyan Chief Colonel Muammar Gadaffi, has admitted.

In an interview published in the Sunday Times today, 32-year-old Saif said his country had spent 40 million dollars on its quest to acquire nuclear capability.

Some of the ‘‘five-star Libyan scientists’’ working on the bomb had trained in Britain, he claimed.

He confirmed that Libya had bought nuclear components, including centrifuges, from a variety of black market dealers. Some of the material came from Malaysia and various asian countries, he said. Other components had been bought from the black market dealers in South Africa.

‘‘We dealt with an underground network of middlemen and secret workshops,’’ he said. ‘‘This piece from here, that piece from there.’’

According to the report, revelations of the extent of Pakistani involvement will certainly increase American and British pressure on Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf, who is already accused of failing to prevent the illicit sale of nuclear material to Iran. Pakistan admitted last week that ‘‘rogue scientists’’ may have peddled technology for ‘‘individual gain’’. It said several had been questioned, including Abdul Qadeer Khan, regarded as the ‘‘father’’ of the country’s nuclear bomb.

British and American experts who went to inspect Libyan weapons sites were taken aback when they found that nuclear scientists working for Gadaffi had what one western official described as a ‘‘full bomb dossier’’ from the Pakistanis.

Western officials said that the Pakistani scientists had received the payments from Libya — which they said could have been substantially higher, even as much as 100 million dollars — over several years, starting in the late 1990s.

They appeared to have been working on their own account, without the knowledge of the authorities in Islamabad, the report said. About Libya’s abandoning of its nuclear ambition, Saif said he had worked as a ‘‘trouble shooter’’. ‘‘I was able to take messages to my father and explain to him. By the end we had a good relationship with the CIA, MI6 and all the Americans and British,’’ he said.

His father had needed reassurance, though, that they were not secretly pushing for ‘‘regime change’’. ‘‘Once they assured us that they did not, everything went forward.’’

Saif said he now expected Libya to open up, with the leading defence manufacturer bae systems and British petroleum coming to the country for ‘‘big deals’’.

The report quoted a senior Arab source saying that some of the components for the Libyan nuclear programme were bought in Dubai and shipped to Libya. Dubai has hitherto been thought of as a transit point for illicit goods from Iran and other countries. This is the first time it has been accused of selling nuclear components, the report said.

***************
Why now these disclosures?

Because Pakis true to their cheating spirits did not supply 'Asli maal' to Libya. But one must also take into consideration that the Paki bums are really Chinese bums, as the real bums at George town discovered lately.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Leonard » 05 Jan 2004 22:03


Paki Bums were Always Chinese Re-painted Imports


Imagine the Paki Technical Jihadi Geniuses :D

probably import bicycles from PRC ...!!!

doesn't manufacture basic medicines ..!!

imports "Tires" ......

even Paki Foose-balls made by Kids are loosing Market Share !!!!

Chinese are selling machine made Foot-Balls for $1.00 in most Grocery stores ... ;)


KRL, Chasma, etc etc are a MONDO CON JOB
on those Petrol-Pumps & Missile-Pumps,
another "Revenue Generating Exports" from
Terror-Stan

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby laxmibai » 05 Jan 2004 22:15

IMO, this episode may have taken away the "rhetorical" edge from US's use of sanctions as part of the missile-nuke control regime.

Suppose, for example, India goes ahead with "bigger and better" missile development and US threatens to impose sanctions on India to restrain it.

India can point out that by its own admission, the US had no information about nuke/missile proliferation which went on unhindered in the 1980s and afterwards. Hence India cannot afford to hinge its security perceptions/options on US's mis-informed mis-perceptions about what threats India faces and what should constitute India's response to these threats.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Prateek » 05 Jan 2004 23:25

I can only say that Pakis are right, just because the root cause or the TRUE proliferator who uses Pakistan, CHINA doesn't appear anywhere. That must be sure un substantiated. Otherwise Paki hands are everywhere ...

http://www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp?type=worldNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4073519

Libya nuclear report unsubstantiated - Pakistan

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby putnanja » 05 Jan 2004 23:38


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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Nandu » 05 Jan 2004 23:44

Just FYI, the KRL nuke technology brochure was first discussed here on BRF more than a year ago. NYTimes was very slow at breaking that story.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Rak » 06 Jan 2004 08:02


Kuttan
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Kuttan » 06 Jan 2004 08:15

I think the Pakis are right. Since their weapons didn't work, why does anyone suppose that they REALLY transferred effective weapon technology to anyone?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Div » 06 Jan 2004 08:54

When it comes to one-liners, no one can beat the ubiquitous "Western diplomat". These must be straight from a SNL skit...

"It has all the hallmarks of a Pakistani system," a senior official in Washington said. "These guys are now three for three as supplier to the biggest proliferation problems we have," the official added, referring to previously disclosed Pakistani aid to the nuclear programs of North Korea and Iran.
One Western diplomat said Monday that some Pakistani nuclear scientists operated as though they were running "Nukes 'R' Us."

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby jrjrao » 06 Jan 2004 16:19

Letter to the Telegraph, UK:
6 January 2004
[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/Content/displayPopup.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/01/06/dt0605.xml&site=15]A Weapons smear on Pakistan
[/url]
Sir - Who can believe that Pakistan's top nuclear facility would publish a brochure to sell nuclear technology and components to would-be nuclear powers, as claimed in your report (Jan 5), based on an item published in the New York Times?

Far from embarrassing Pakistan, the publication of the obviously fake brochure should expose those involved in forging it.

I could not agree more with your report when it says that leaking of the brochure on the eve of important talks between Pakistan and India was "deliberately timed to put pressure on President Pervaiz Musharraf to make concessions over the long-running dispute over Kashmir".

Permit me therefore to reiterate that, if such a brochure exists, it is the handiwork of forces that are engaged in dirty tricks to smear Pakistan.

From:
Javed Akhtar, Obviously Fake High Commission for Pakistan, London SW1

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Kuttan » 06 Jan 2004 21:04

jrjr:

Its interesting that the Fake HC should send that letter - and may offer an opportunity. Somewhere on my HD is an article from Paki newspapers circa 2000 where the GOVERNMENT OF PAKISTAN published an advertisement in all the newspapers offering nuclear components for sale. Do u remember this? It may be worthwhile getting a few people to send that over, and nail the Fake HC.

BTW, how can Pakistan have a "high" Commission when they're kicked out of the Commonwealth? Does "high" refer to his state of abstinence?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby jrjrao » 06 Jan 2004 21:11

N., I remember reading about the newspaper ad in the Dawn then. If we know the dates, that paper may have the archives...

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Rangudu » 06 Jan 2004 21:49

Just call out my name...

See this:

http://www.dawn.com/2000/07/24/latest.htm

I have already despatched my letter to DT.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Kuttan » 07 Jan 2004 00:12

Awesome. Actually, about a week after that, there is an article that says, essentially: "Government withdraws ad.."

I remember that the gist was that someone in the bureaucracy posted the ad in the papers to expose what was going on. Mentioned something about Pakistan poor country onlee - needs phoren exchange cash onlee etc.

That was the really sensational one.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Prateek » 07 Jan 2004 00:37

Libya had Pakistani nuclear know-how - U.S. official

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Libya obtained nuclear weapons technology from Pakistan, a key U.S. anti-terror ally, but there was no sign Pakistan's government was involved, a Bush administration official said on Tuesday.

The White House said Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf, whose country is nuclear-armed, had given earlier assurances it had no role in any "proliferation activity" regarding unconventional weapons. But a White House spokesman said "rogue individuals" may be hard to control.

"We fully expect President Musharraf and the government of Pakistan to follow through on those assurances," spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters. "We recognize that it's always difficult to control the activities of rogue individuals whose motives are personal gain."

McClellan declined to confirm a New York Times report that Pakistan was the source of centrifuge design technology that helped Libya advance toward a nuclear weapon over the last two years.

Another U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed the report but said he was not certain when the transfer took place. He said there was no sign of Pakistani government involvement.

The disclosure comes at a sensitive time for U.S. relations with both countries, and Washington's suggestions discounting a Pakistani government role are in line with previous Pakistani denials that it aided proliferation.

Pakistan supported the U.S. effort to topple the Taliban government in Afghanistan following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, which were blamed on the Afghan-based al Qaeda network of Osama bin Laden. Musharraf has faced two assassination attempts in the last month, and suspicions have focused on al Qaeda and other militants.

EARLIER CONCERNS

But Western diplomats have expressed concern previously that Iran and North Korea may have obtained nuclear technology from Pakistan.

Libya last month said it would abandon its unconventional weapons programs, and Bush said on Monday that if Libya follows through, Washington would take "tangible steps" to improve relations. Secretary of State Colin Powell said on Tuesday these could include a review of U.S. sanctions on Libya.

A congressional foreign policy aide said it was unclear whether Congress would take action.

Even though Musharraf may not be directly responsible for the technology transfer, people "representing institutions of the government" may have played a role, the aide said.

Pakistan on Monday described as unsubstantiated a British newspaper report that Pakistani scientists sold nuclear weapons plans to Libya. But a Pakistani government official said any official complaint would be investigated.

Asked whether he believed there was a Pakistani link to Libya's nuclear program, Powell said he did not have enough information to answer. "There have been cases where individuals in Pakistan have worked in these areas and we have called it to the attention of the Pakistanis in the past. And I'm very pleased now that President Musharraf is aggressively moving to investigate all of that," he said.

He said there was no U.S. reluctance to press Musharraf. "I can assure you of that, because I've been the one who's been talking to him about it over these years," he said.

Pakistan admitted late last year that scientists involved in its atom bomb program may have been driven by "personal ambition or greed" to export technology to Iran, but insisted the government had no part in any such deals.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Rangudu » 07 Jan 2004 00:45

Check out this interesting commentary on NPR about Xerox Khan and his proliferation.

Link

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Prateek » 07 Jan 2004 00:56

My gut feeling is that US/UK will not denuke Pakistan, because they might feel that using Pakistan they might just be able to eliminate nukes in India aswell... That's the reason why US/UK can stoop down to any level to justify the Pakis.

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/06/international/asia/06CND-NUKE.html?ex=1074056400&en=c2b59b00a371457f&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE">kindly edited</a>

Pakistan Called Libyans' Source of Atom Design
By PATRICK E. TYLER and DAVID E. SANGER


Published: January 6, 2004

RIPOLI, Libya, Jan. 6 — Pakistan was the source of the centrifuge design technology that made it possible for Libya to make major strides in the last two years in enriching uranium for use in nuclear weapons, Bush administration officials in Washington and other Western experts said on Monday.

The officials emphasized that they possessed no evidence that the Pakistani government of President Pervez Musharraf — a crucial ally in the pursuit of Al Qaeda — knew about the transfer of technology to Libya, which helped finance Pakistan's early nuclear weapons program three decades ago. Nonetheless, the officials' remarks brought a furious response today from the Pakistani government, which asserted, through a senior official in its nuclear program, that "Pakistan should not be blamed for any individual's wrongful act." :roll:

Many of the centrifuge parts that Libya imported, and which Italy intercepted in October, were manufactured in Malaysia, according to experts familiar with the continuing investigation.

The timing of the transfer of the centrifuge design from Pakistan calls into question General Musharraf's ability to make good on his vow to President Bush that he would rein in Pakistani scientists selling their nuclear expertise around the globe. The general made that pledge shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks in the United States. Yet the main aid to Libya appears to have come since those attacks, suggesting that Pakistani scientists may have continued their trade even after the explicit warning.

"It has all the hallmarks of a Pakistani system," a senior official in Washington said. "These guys are now three for three as supplier to the biggest proliferation problems we have," the official added, referring to previously disclosed Pakistani aid to the nuclear programs of North Korea and Iran.

In Islamabad today, a senior official of Pakistan's Atomic Energy Commission denied any government involvement in the transfer of nuclear technology, although the official stopped short of rejecting the possibility that individual Pakistanis might have had a transfer role.

"The government of Pakistan was not behind any move aimed at transferring nuclear knowledge or technology or any other thing to any other country," the official told The Associated Press, which did not identify the official. "We do not know who has been helping Iran, North Korea or Libya."

Separately, Pakistan's information minister, Sheikh Rashid Ahmed, told The A.P.: "This is total madness. The report is absolutely false, and there is no truth in it." He added, "Pakistan's program is under tight control and in safe hands. People keep publishing this kind of trash. Let me again say that Pakistan is a responsible state and Pakistan has never proliferated."

Libya agreed on Dec. 19 to dismantle its nuclear program and open itself to full inspections, which have already begun. But on Monday Mr. Bush issued a statement saying American economic sanctions against Libya would continue until it takes "concrete steps" to disarm.

The president pointed the way to a lifting of sanctions, however. "As Libya takes tangible steps to address those concerns," Mr. Bush said in a statement to Congress, "the United States will in turn take reciprocal tangible steps to recognize Libya's progress."

The United States and Britain have declined to identify publicly the sources of uranium enrichment technology shipped to Libya. They still will not discuss the origin of many of the parts that Libya obtained from middlemen and dealers. Those shipments are often hard to trace; the ship containing the Malaysian-made components in October picked them up in Dubai, a major transshipment point for both legitimate and banned technology. :mad:

One Western diplomat said on Monday that some Pakistani nuclear scientists operated as though they were running "Nukes 'R' Us."

Still, a senior Bush administration official said it would be wrong to say the Pakistani government was involved in the shipment.
:whine:

"This is intellectual property," the official said, "and the technology of uranium enrichment is out there on the black market." He added that to say the government of General Musharraf was involved would be like saying "an American drug smuggler arrested on the border was working for the United States government." >>>>>> [color=blue size=0.5] Soooooo pathetic ... How can they compare drugs to nukes ????? I hope this official realizes the difference between the drug dealer and a nuke dealer.</font>

While Washington has waxed eloquent over the Libyan decision to disarm, some officials are concerned that Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, the Libyan leader, could change his mind, especially if the United States does not to act on an implicit pledge to lift the economic sanctions.

To speed disarmament, the United States, Britain and Libya have agreed to begin negotiations later this week in London to work out detailed plans to verify and dismantle Libya's nuclear, chemical and other weapons programs.

Senior Western officials said on Monday that over the weekend, the United States and Britain agreed on a common approach after a visit to London by John R. Bolton, the under secretary of state in charge of nonproliferation matters.

Separately on Monday, the British foreign secretary, Jack Straw, said in the House of Commons that he had invited the Libyan foreign minister, Abdelrahman Shalqam, to come to London "soon" to discuss "the process of implementing the decision by Libya to dismantle its weapons programs." After the mechanics of a disarmament plan are worked out, Mr. Straw said, it will then be Libya's responsibility to report separately to the international agencies that will undertake the long-term monitoring of military laboratories in Libya to ensure that it does not renege on its pledges to give up illicit programs.

"We have committed ourselves to helping with the preparation" of Libya's submissions to the international treaty agencies, Mr. Straw said, "and to helping dismantle the programs Libya has agreed to destroy."

Mr. Straw's statement appeared to be a carefully calibrated division of labor among the main players in Libya's disarmament, and spoke of relevant international agencies playing a part, at least after initial talks.

Earlier comments from senior Bush administration officials had suggested that there was an effort by Washington to sideline Mohamed ElBaradei and the International Atomic Energy Agency, which he heads, from playing a key role in setting out a plan for dismantling Libya's nuclear program.

Monday's statements in London and by a senior American official suggested that Mr. ElBaradei would initially play a subordinate role as Britain and the United States move swiftly to inventory the full scope of Libya's illicit weapons programs and then take a prominent role in their dismantling.

In his statement to the British commons on Monday, Mr. Straw alluded to the coming negotiations in London that will be carried out by diplomats from the three countries along with Central Intelligence Agency experts, British intelligence officers and Mr. Kussa, a Western official said.

"Britain and the United States will now be taking forward the practical issues of verification and of the dismantling of these weapons in partnership with Libya" and the international agencies that monitor the treaties banning the spread of nuclear and chemical weapons.

However, a senior Bush administration official said by telephone from the United States that personnel from the I.A.E.A. and the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons will not be present for the London talks.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Rangudu » 07 Jan 2004 01:04

I was tracking the debates in the British House of Commons on the Libya thing to see if any mention of TSP is made.

Here's the transcript of Monday's (Jan 5) debate.

Two MPs Crispin Blunt and Michael Ancram specifically asked Jack Straw about the Paki role in Libya's program. Straw ducked both questions. :roll:

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Umrao » 07 Jan 2004 01:09

R>> Daniel Shorr is pro pakistani/uneven Cohen kind, still revelling in Cold war era nostalgia and Paki help during Afghan war.

Only when the Paki stink is blowing into his nostrils does he talk against Pak , even there he has to somehow bring equal equal equation.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Prateek » 07 Jan 2004 03:19

While Pakistani BAD boy acts are coming out, What is hidden is the bigger culprit's acts and face, China. China is hiding behind its proxies. So far they have managed to save their faces, may be because neither of Pakis or NKorea or Saudi are not giving out any intel on Chinese involvement, Or may be that since getting such intel can show the BAD nature of Chinese proliferation, the west and the US wants the matter to end with these nations. If persued further, I am sure the so called Evil Pentagon I had framed long back here consisting of China, KSA, Pakistan, Iran and NKorea will be exposed. I have no doubts about it at all...

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby ramana » 07 Jan 2004 04:37

The recent revelations by Iran and Libya provide a better timeline on the TSP nuke quest.

From what I have read here and there I was able to construct the following timeline.

1972. ZAB launches the TSP quest at a conference of Pak scientists in Multan. The goal could be an enriched uranium design based on the fact that the WWII Hiroshima design was used without testing. Possible delivery vehicle is the C-130.
1974. Libya and possibly Iran under the Shah start funding the quest.
1976. AQK returns to TSP with purloined centrifuge drawings and supplier lists in Europe and the West. Early reports emerge about TSP agents getting caught in European and US cities trying to obtain prohibited material. Majority of the reports are from West Germany.
1977. TSP gets Chinese design and cooperation as confirmed in ZAB memoirs.
1979. Zia ul Haq overthrows ZAB and imprisons him
1979 Book Islamic Bomb published based on TV investigative reports.
1980 Afghan War begins. Kingdom of Saudi Arabia starts funding the program sometime in this decade. It acquires Chinese long-range missiles ostensibly to deter Iran.
1984. Sharayar Khan, TSP Foreign Secretary witnesses Chinese test probably with TSP components. David Albright in BAS article.
1986. Exercise Brasstacks launched by Gen. Sunderji. Gorbhachev orders the Soviet Union to settle the problem in two years. Soviets achieve some success and in response US supplies Stinger anti-aircraft missiles to Afghan mujahdeen. Most probably TSP weaponized the components already tested in China, as there was a fear that the Soviet Union could over run the Afghan jihad and turn on TSP.
1987. Kuldip Nayyar interviews AQK who reveals the existence of TSP crown jewels
1988 Cold War ends with Reagan Gorbhachev meetings
1989. Kashmir terrorism starts aided and abetted by TSP.
1990. Early in first half, TSP President Ghulam Ishaque Khan tells US envoy Robert Gates of plans for first strike on India
1990. US President Bush invokes Pressler Amendment.
1998. - May 16th, German President Khol and Japanese Prime Minister announce TSP tested and the announcement is retracted.
- May 17th thru 20th flurry of visits by TSP diplomats etc to Beijing asking for nuclear umbrella etc. More visits.
- May 28th TSP tests in Chagai. Most probably the aircraft version of their gift from China.
- PAEC’s Mubarak Mand lionized. AQK is downgraded and is seen giving interviews to CNN. Visibly twitching hands indicate nervousness.
- May 30th TSP test of small weapon. Most probably Chinese origin Plutonium weapon for missiles. TSP does not have any known or unknown sources for this maerial. Khusab reactor goes critical only in Oct 1998 after the tests.
- Oct. Sharif dismisses Gen. Karamat and supercedes six TSP Army officers to pick Mushharaf as Chief of Staff. Mushy dusts the old Kargil plan and revamps it.
1999. – May 6th. TSP occupies Indian Army vacated posts in Kargil and ambushes a patrol starting the Kargil War.
- Indian Armed Forces retaliate and recover the heights. Nawaz Sharif goes to Washington Dc to negotiate peace terms.
- July 4th. While Sharif in Washington DC, TSP Army activated nukes. Source Bruce Reidel. July 16th ceasefire in Kargil.
- Oct. Musharraf launches coup and takes over from Sharif exiling him to KSA
- Dec TSP terrorists hijack Indian Airlines flight IC 814 in Nepal and fly to Kandahar.
2000 TSP moves its crown jewels to Afghanistan utilizing its ‘strategic depth’
2001 - Sep. 11th TSP Plans and executes 911 with Al Q help. Sep 12th Mushy brings back the crown jewels and the TSP Army personnel placed in Afghanistan by airlift. Sep 13th Mushy executes U-turn on Taleban after hearing from Colin Powell. Later on he explains his compulsions quoting the Prophet.
- Oct. US retaliates in Afghanistan and sweeps the Taleban with the Northern Alliance help. TSP evacuates its personnel trapped in Kunduz. Source Seymour Hersh in New Yorker. Also plans for joint training between US and Israeli Special Forces to corral TSP crown jewels in case of fundamentalist regime change in TSP are revealed. Later reports emerge of US troops providing ‘proximate’ security for TSP crown jewels. Most probably these are the assets brought back from Afghanistan and provided by China.
- Dec 13th TSP terrorists attack Indian parliament and India mobilizes its troops under Operation Parakram. Leaked plans indicate an attack on POK is planned.

2002 – Jan 12th Mushy makes a U turn and agrees to close terrorist camps in Pakistan. Implied that camps in POK will remain.
- May 15th TSP terrorists attack residential quarters on Indian Army camp in Kashmir and kill innocent civilians.
- May 29th Mushy declares at Almay Ata that he will stop all terrorists based everywhere. Conducts missile tests in Pakistan.
- June TSP envoy speaks in UN floor about using nukes. Indian plans appear to be for general hostilities all across the border. Reports emerge of truck convoys with excessive security moving from China to TSP through the Karakorum Highway. Most probably these are additional supplies from China independent of those in ‘proximate’ security of US.
- Crisis defused after the Almay Ata declaration.
- US appear to have decided to bring all assets under its control to prevent Al Q acquiring any sundries. The main worry is radioactive materials with terrorists and no longer weapons.
2003 - Jan India declares objectives of Operation Parakram over and starts de-mobilizing the troops at its borders. It also announces that the Draft Nuclear Doctrine is adopted with changes in line with the US.
- India signs strategic cooperation agreement with Iran allowing it base its troops in Iran in case of hostilities with TSP.

- Iraq war starts and Saddam Hussein overthrown. ABV speaks of new paradigm after the overthrow.
- Early reports of TSP proliferation to North Korea and suspected transfers to Iran. Reports emerge of Russia persisting in re-building the nuclear power reactors at Busher in Iran.
- Newinsight.net reports that India had advised Iran that it would face the full might of the US if it persists in developing nuclear weapons. Iran soon opens up for IAEA inspections and is found to have enriched uranium produced in centrifuges built to TSP designs.

- Nov. India announces various CBMs to normalize relations with TSP and later in Dec. Indian PM agrees to visit Islamabad in Jan 2004 for the SAARC summit.

- Dec. Reports emerge from first Iran and then Libya about TSP proliferation of nuclear weapon designs and supplier lists and equipment designs.

2004. - Jan. Washington and London freely disassociate the government of TSP from its officials who proliferated the nuclear technology to North Korea, Iran and Libya.
- India and TSP hold their meetings at the SAARC summit in Islamabad and announce various CBMs and the establishment of a free trade agreement in the region, which has been held up for a long time due to TSP insistence on solving Kashmir before any other moves.

From this timeline it appears that:

Early on TSP weapon design was based on enriched uranium using centrifuge technology. It was funded by Libya, Iran under the Shah, and Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. In exchange it provided Libya and Iran with the centrifuge technology and supplier lists from the West. TSP obtained from North Korea its Ghauri/No Dong missiles and gave centrifuge technology as pro quid quo.

This design did not work and the Chinese provided them with working weapons, which were tested in Chagai. These weapons were stored in Afghanistan under the Taleban after the IC 814 flight hijack drama proved the ‘strategic depth’. These weapons were brought back after 911 and were under US proximate security. The inventory was replenished in June 2002 and these were also under US ‘proximate’ security in later 2002.

The main worry is the possibility of radiological material transfers to Islamic fundamentalist groups. The prospect of rogue states in Mid East acquiring such weapons of mass destruction has been nullified with the example of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Both Libya and Iran have turned a new leaf. In fact Libya wants to have Western troops stationed on its soil to assure its security. This has shown that the prospect of an Islamic challenge to the West is not realistic. In other words national interests have supplanted the ‘ummah’ concept. This is a growing up of sorts in the international time scale. For example it’s the Peace of Westphalia that established nation states in Europe and brought relative peace and tranquility to the continent. This action of self-preservation by Iran and Libya bodes well for averting the ‘Clash of Civilizations’ worry of Samuel Huntington. The two remaining challenges are the jihadis and the training camps in TSP and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and its culture of promoting Wahabi fundamentalism everywhere. The challenge of China is becoming one of commercial competition.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Sam » 07 Jan 2004 05:46

Pakistan without nukes and islamists === Priceless!

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby svinayak » 07 Jan 2004 05:53

Need to save this thread

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Kuttan » 07 Jan 2004 05:58

Let me post what Rangudu so kindly found.

From DAWN, July 24, 2000

Latest News

Government regulates export of nuclear materials

ISLAMABAD, July 24: Pakistan announced its procedures for commercial exports of nuclear materials from the country today.

An advertisement placed by the Ministry of Commerce in newspapers said prospective exporters would need a "no objection certificate" from the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission in order to export specified nuclear substances and equipment.

The ad listed nuclear substances as: natural uranium, depleted uranium, enriched uranium, thorium, plutonium, zirconium, heavy water, tritium, beryllium, natural or artificial radioactive materials provided the activity is not less than 0.002 microcuries per gram, and nuclear grade graphite with a boron equivalent content of less than five parts per million and density greater than 1.5 gm/cubic centimetres. These substances could be in the form of metal alloys, chemical compounds or any other material containing one or more of them.

The list of nuclear equipment "for production, use or application of nuclear energy and generation of electricity" included nuclear power reactors; reactor pressure vessels; reactor fuel charging and discharging machines; primary coolant pumps; reactor control systems; reactor internals; any other items directly attached to the reactor vessels that control the level of power in the core and/or that control the primary coolant inventory of the reactor core; nuclear research reactors; neutron flux measuring equipment; equipment for the fabrication of fuel elements, including welding machines for end caps; equipment for separation of uranium isotopes, including gas centrifuges, magnets baffles, bearing, etc; UF6 mass spectrometers; frequency changers; special shut-off and control valves; equipment for the production of heavy water, including exchange towers, neutron generator systems and industrial gamma irradiators. According to the advertisement, the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission will have the authority to verify and inspect all nuclear exports.(DPA)

As I said, this was just the first article on this issue. About a week later there was a frantic cover-up, with the ads being pulled, etc. Point is, the sale of new clear Xerox technology was done openly as recently as July 2000, under "400%" Musharraf

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 25 Dec 2003

Postby Roop » 07 Jan 2004 06:00

Ramana:

That was a very interesing timeline. I just want to emphasize what you have said (and what, presumably, was known to most of us here but bears repetition): Pakistan acquired Chinese nuke designs, in the late Seventies. (My editorial note: It is a virtual certainty that the US knew about this, and acquiesced). Further, and this is important, this transfer of nuke-weapon technology occurred before the Soviet Union invaded Afghanitan.

When Reagan assumed office in 1981, TSP was already the beneficiary of Chinese nuke-weapon knowhow, and Reagan (and, by implication, Thatcher) were fine with this. Everyone who mattered in the West thought that nuke weapons were just dandy in Paki hands. Sure, India was in mortal danger, but hey, they were a bunch idol-worshipping Commie-symps, so who cared?

Now that the Paki-Frankenstein (Pakenstein) threatens its creator (US/China), everyone says Islamic nukes are a "bad thing", but it is interesting to note that "Islamic nukes" were considered just dandy when those damned Indians were the only ones under threat. Irony, anyone?????


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