Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Guest » 04 Feb 2004 02:18

Four awarded 3-month detentions for proliferation

Four Pakistani scientists awarded 3 months detention
(Updated at 2300 PST)
ISLAMABAD: Pakistani government has ordered to detain four Pakistani scientists for three months who were accused to have given nuclear weapons technology to other countries.
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The scientists who have been issued the orders included Dr Farooq, Dr Nazir Ahmed, Brigadier (R) Sajawal and Major (R ) Islam-UL-Haq.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby SaiK » 04 Feb 2004 02:23

Mmmm.. going by the peace initiatives our PM has taken, perhaps we can be the real "big brother" for pakis. We can offer them a deal for "securing their nuclear interests", and provide the "Never use Lock!"
;)

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby MurthyB » 04 Feb 2004 03:14

Khan says that he would like to have his panties removed with all his general pals.
Khan and his underwear buddies

In conversations with investigators, Khan urged them to question the former army commanders and Musharraf, asserting that ``no debriefing is complete unless you bring every one of them here and debrief us together,'' :D :rotfl: according to the friend, who has met with the accused scientist twice during the past two months.

This is the gayest proliferation scandal yet!

BTW, note to Tantex corporation: time for entering Paki market!

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Rangudu » 04 Feb 2004 03:15

You guys wanna see a tap dance with words? See today's White House briefing

Q Two subjects. First, Dr. Khan, the so-called father of the Pakistani bomb, is now saying that top leaders of the Pakistani army, including General Musharraf, were aware of his illegal transfer of expertise and nuclear weapons technology to Iran and Libya and elsewhere. First, does that square with what the administration knows? And what would be the consequence for someone like General Musharraf --

MR. McCLELLAN: President Musharraf has assured us that Pakistan was not involved in any kind of proliferation -- I'm talking about the government of Pakistan. We value those assurances. The ongoing investigation into these proliferation issues by the government of Pakistan is a sign of how strongly Pakistan takes that commitment.

Q If that investigation leads to General Musharraf, as Dr. Kahn seems to suggest it should, what would be the consequences for his relationship with the United States?

MR. McCLELLAN: The spread -- well, one, I think I just addressed that matter. The spread of nuclear weapons-related goods and technology is a matter of global concern, particularly since the attacks of September 11th. And I think that the investigation by the government of Pakistan demonstrates their commitment to working to address proliferation issues. And we are working with other nations, as well, to stop individuals who are involved in the proliferation, as well as to work with other issues on the proliferation security initiative, which is another tool to help stop the spread of these technologies to states and other non-state actors.

Q So is it fair to say that when it comes to Pervez Musharraf, the President's attitude is, we value his assurances that he's not doing these things now, we don't really mind that he did them before?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, no, I don't know that I would characterize it the way you did. I made it clear -- very clear that we value his assurances. He has assured us that Pakistan was not involved in any of the proliferation activity that you are talking about. And we continue to expect Pakistan to follow through on those assurances.

Q You're taking him on faith, Scott, or do you have evidence to back that up?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, John, I would point out that Pakistan is working closely with us on a number of fronts in the global war on terrorism. And we are continuing to work closely with Pakistan to win the war on terrorism, and we appreciate the efforts they are taking to address these proliferation issues.

Q Again, are you taking his assurances on faith?

MR. McCLELLAN: No, I said, we value his assurances.

Q But are you taking them on faith, or do you have independent evidence to back up that what he's saying is true?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I think that I would leave it the way I did. We value his assurances.
:roll:

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Umrao » 04 Feb 2004 03:18

The secret empire of Dr Khan
Pakistan’s nuclear proliferation poses a tricky challeng
JASJIT SINGH



Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan, the “father” of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons programme and the man who relentlessly pursued it through clandestine means and methods for decades, has finally admitted in a written statement that he oversaw its further clandestine spread to at least three other countries. Official Pakistan, which for years insisted that its nuclear weapons programme is tightly controlled and completely secure, is now claiming that nuclear trade has been made into a private enterprise by some of its national heroes! Extensive evidence has emerged in the public domain about detailed plans for enrichment of uranium for bomb making having been transferred from Pakistan to a number of countries along with a new version of a “yellow pages” directory of networks from Malaysia to Europe and North America for supply of materials and components.

What is of critical importance is not only the world’s most adventurous multinational nuclear proliferation but the reason Khan has put forward for his activities. Pakistani officials are saying that, contrary to earlier assumptions, he did not do so for money, but that he “was motivated enough to make other Islamic countries nuclear powers also” and reduce pressure on Pakistan. This may be an effort to garner public support from Islamic parties and countries. It also harks back to Bhutto’s notion of the “Islamic Bomb” for its Um’mah. The only exception known so far is the supply of nuclear weapon making technology to North Korea for strategic reasons in exchange for long-range ballistic missiles for nuclear weapon delivery.

Islamism has been deepening in Pakistan for three decades. Its concept of “strategic depth”, especially to its west, led to intervention in Afghanistan to control Kabul through covert Mujahideen operations. Strategic depth made no sense in modern conventional military terms. But in the context of Islamic jihad, as an instrument of politics by other means in Clausewitzean terms, it incorporated deadly logic, especially when the Holy Quran was invoked under General Zia ul-Haq to justify terrorism. To this has been added the strategic depth of an “Islamic Bomb” whose wherewithal is controlled by Pakistan. One look at the map would show that Pakistan’s Islamic nuclear mushroom covers the whole of West Asia with what Mansoor Ijaz terms as the “North Korean-made missiles armed with a Chinese-made nuclear device assembled in Islamabad’s nuclear labs whose fuel came from gas centrifuges sold by Pakistan’s rogue Islamists.” Small wonder Al-Qaeda, which received extensive support from Pakistan and its most radical surrogate, the Taliban, boasted it could make a “dirty” nuclear bomb.

The incontrovertible truth is that Pakistan’s nuclear programme in every aspect has been, and remains, under the firm and total control of its army at least since 1977; even its navy and air force have little role in it. Its clandestine nature relied on building a black market largely managed by trusted senior army (and ISI) officers and senior scientists in the nuclear establishment. Such people have undoubtedly been under a strong security and intelligence cover as much for their safety as to keep an eye on them. With a flourishing $2 billion-plus annual narcotics trade, and banks like the former Dubai-based Pakistani-owned “Outlaw Bank”, the BCCI (Bank of Credit and Commerce International), and the Mehran Bank to manage the black market in narcotics, nuclear trade and tools for terrorism, there was obviously no dearth of unaccounted funds for the purpose. General Aslam Beg, the army chief in late 1980s who controlled the nuclear programme, later publicly acknowledged receipt of hundreds of crores of unaccounted funds which he passed on to the ISI and President Ghulam Ishaq Khan.

The bulk of transfer of nuclear technology and networking of components supply for a weapons programme to Libya and other countries took place in the late 1980s and early 1990s when Aslam Beg was in full control of the programme. He has been questioned. But it is apparent that nuclear trade continued under the Musharraf regime. In 2002 a Pakistani military aircraft carried stuff from North Korea. It is likely that A.Q. Khan’s special “furniture” reportedly transported by Pakistan Air Force to Libya in 2000 was a cover for continuing supplies, especially since Muhammad Farooq, the nuclear laboratory’s head of oversees trade, accompanied the consignment.

Pakistan has confronted the world with its most serious challenge in limiting proliferation. But the one country which should have spearheaded an objective approach to what must be the biggest, most dangerous and most dramatic spread of nuclear weapons technology since the bomb was invented has already signalled closure in this inconvenient chapter as long as Pakistan takes some legal action against somebody. <h3>The White House spokesman said last week that spread of nuclear weapons technology from Pakistan (to states the US has listed as rogue and/or part of the axis of evil) was “part of the past, and the past is past.”</h3> Thereby the US has once again demonstrated that its short-term interests over-ride its commitment to non-proliferation. It might be recalled that in 1980-81 negotiations with Pakistan army’s vice chief, Lt Gen K.M. Arif, Washington had agreed to allow Pakistan’s clandestine nuclear weapon programme in return for its role as a frontline state vis-a-vis Afghanistan!

The proliferation chain, according to US experts, starts from China to Pakistan, and then extends to North Korea, Libya and Iran, with Turkey and Saudi Arabia being suspected of ambitions to join the chain. There could be others — after all, we don’t know what we don’t know! Existing non-proliferation regimes built around the NPT reached their apogee some time ago and now produce only diminishing returns. Still, the case for effective export controls is strong. But their enforcement would remain a key uncertainty till breakout is discovered. For example, where states and semi-state actors decide to proliferate to other countries, like Pakistan has been doing, and/or turn a blind eye to clandestine programmes, like the US did in the case of Pakistan in the 1980s, how can such export controls be adequate in stopping proliferation? There is also a need to ensure that continuing adverse consequences of technology do not hamper techno-economic development in responsible states at least.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Umrao » 04 Feb 2004 03:20

The road to proliferation starts in Islamabad passes thru Bejing to Pongyang, Tripoli, Tehran & Istanbul.

Sounds like what Spinster had said in 1998.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby RajeshG » 04 Feb 2004 04:21

Hello John Umrao,

Originally posted by John Umrao:
The road to proliferation starts in Islamabad passes thru Bejing to Pongyang, Tripoli, Tehran & Istanbul.

Sounds like what Spinster had said in 1998.
Why Istanbul ? :confused: Dunno anything about Istanbul.

One more general ques. for everybody - why is Iran cooperating so much - some deal regarding Iraq ?

Regards..

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby svinayak » 04 Feb 2004 04:39

What happens if tomorrow a scenario unfolds where the news is leaked that AQK made a trip to Baghdad.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Roop » 04 Feb 2004 05:06

Originally posted by acharya:
What happens if tomorrow a scenario unfolds where the news is leaked that AQK made a trip to Baghdad.
Well, that depends on who is unfolding this scenario, i.e. who is doing the leaking. If it's Bush and the neocons (or Bush's mini-me Blair) we'll know that the scenario is a pack of lies. If it's someone with at least a modicum of credibility (like George Fernandes, for instance) I'll have to say to myself, "Self, this looks interesting. Let's check this out".

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Calvin » 04 Feb 2004 06:16

Rangudu the press briefing is a politically correct way of saying "Trust, but verify", isn't it.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby NRao » 04 Feb 2004 06:26

why is Iran cooperating so much
1. Pressure from nations - on going since a while, then
2. Got caught

I think there was a story about Brit Intel breaking into TSP Emby in London. If true, they must have got a ton of info on which countries were involved.

Besides Iran and Libya Mush and his Public have become very quite too. When was the last time that "nuclear armed" India tested a Akash/Trishul and TSP did NOT "test" a Ghauri?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Airavat » 04 Feb 2004 06:42

Did AQ Khan have a stake in the drugs trade? Or in the financing of terror groups?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Rangudu » 04 Feb 2004 06:56

Calvin, the White House press conf reads "n o o k n o o d"

BTW, here are some comments from our Foggy Bottom weight lifter.

Amritraj interview to Japanese paper

ASAHI: It’s been reported just recently that A.Q. Kan, of Pakistan, has made a confession that he admits that all of the past 15 years he provided Iran, North Korea and Libya the designs and technology to produce fuel for nuclear weapons. As for North Korea, the transfer was made from ’91 to’97, and also an additional one until 2000. Has the U.S. government confirmed this kind of proliferation by Pakistan?

ARMITAGE: Well, be careful. First of all, you’re talking about proliferation by Pakistan, and the comments, or the article, which you referred talked about proliferation by an individual. There’s a difference, OK?

ASAHI: The government of Pakistan . . .

ARMITAGE: No, the government of Pakistan – we’ve had significant discussions with them. They’ve been very forthright in the last several years with us about proliferation. <u>We do not have any information that they are involved.</u> The question of A.Q. Kan is one that’s under investigation by Pakistani authorities. I’ll let them make any comments they want to about it. <u>I don’t care to talk about that, nor any intelligence we may have on it.</u>

ASAHI: So the United States government does not have any knowledge that A.Q. Kan proliferated to North Korea?

ARMITAGE: What I said was <u>I don’t care to talk about it.</u> :roll: :roll: :roll: There’s an ongoing investigation and I don’t care to talk about what we may know from intelligence or otherwise. This is something that I think the Pakistanis should be out in front on.

ASAHI: Sir, this report is out in the New York Times and the Herald Tribune.

ARMITAGE: Well, wait a minute. The New York Times is not exactly accurate all the time . . .

ASAHI: I see.

ARMITAGE: . . . unlike Asahi Shimbun. (laughter)

ASAHI: It's a big burden. (laughter)

ARMITAGE: But someone's got to carry it! (laughter)

ASAHI: Whether you say in the public or not, does this case of Pakistan have any impact on six-party talks from now on?

ARMITAGE: I can’t see why. The information was already out there before the announcement of the . . . I mean, the article to which you refer was already out there before the announcement in Pyongyang, and in a few minutes in Beijing. So I don’t think it does have any impact. Over time, as we understand more about the Iranian program, the Libyan program, etc., that may have some, not impact directly on North Korea, but it may sort of help the international community understand better the network of clandestine provision of WMD materials.

ASAHI: You think the administration of Musharraf can survive?

ARMITAGE: Yes.

ASAHI: He’s already gone through two attempts of assassination.

ARMITAGE: Yes, he has.

ASAHI: What makes you think that he can survive, sir?

ARMITAGE: I think that there’s a growing realization that Pervez Musharraf is the right man at the right time in the leadership of Pakistan. The very fact that some people are trying to assassinate him indicates to me that he’s being successful in trying to bring Pakistan into a modern and productive life, both in south Asia and more broadly in the world. It’s something to be applauded and supported, and the government of Japan is supportive of Pakistan. We certainly are, and we will continue.

ASAHI: You’re not concerned that he might be in any way taken out, or assassinated?

ARMITAGE: I’m very concerned always of the possibility of that kind of attempt. But I know with great leaders come great responsibilities, great decisions and, sometimes, great dangers, and I think that’s where we are with Pervez Musharraf.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Rak » 04 Feb 2004 07:43

Originally posted by Rangudu:
Amritraj interview to Japanese paper

Armitage - The Bald Goon, needs to be irradiated for him to 'care'. With SOBs like this, proliferation will lead the next wave of globalization.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Rangudu » 04 Feb 2004 07:53

Heh Heh. The shipments that landed in Tennessee from Libya include bomb Xerox copies from who less - Dr.Xerox himself. :roll: , and they wave aside recent accusations by Mr. Khan's allies that President Pervez Musharraf was himself aware of the transactions. :roll: But some experts inside and outside the government say it is difficult to believe that Pakistan's nuclear secrets could have been exported without the knowledge of some in the military and the Pakistani intelligence service, the I.S.I., especially since some shipments were made on Pakistani military aircraft. [/b]

Whoever was responsible, the warhead design appears now to have been a sought-after prize of the network of nuclear middlemen and parts producers that American officials say is being broken up, from Germany to Malaysia, and from Dubai to the Netherlands.

"Ever since the Libya revelations last month, there have been a lot of detentions, and some arrests," one American official said Tuesday.

The documents were hurried out of Libya on the first flight that could be arranged — a Jan. 22 charter that had arrived in Libya with equipment for the C.I.A. and others dismantling the Libyan nuclear complex. The documents are being held by the Department of Energy, which oversees America's nuclear arsenal. A second flight, a few days later, took thousands of parts for centrifuges to a location Tennessee.

Inside the White House and across the Potomac at the Central Intelligence Agency, the documents from Libya have raised as many urgent questions as they have answered.

American intelligence officials say they are uncertain who else possesses copies of the design, but they assume there are others. Obtaining the enriched uranium or the plutonium to make a bomb is more difficult than getting a workable bomb design, but their fear is that the network they are uncovering sold both.

Investigators are also trying to determine whether the network of suppliers and experts sold a similar weapons design to North Korea.

American and South Korean officials say that North Korea traded its missile technology to Pakistan in return for nuclear weapons technology in the late 1990's. That is during the same period when Libya paid to obtain the design and the centrifuge parts, investigators say.

<u>The last shipment of those parts to Libya was intercepted in October, which was several years after Washington began pressuring Mr. Musharraf's government to shut down the scientists at the Khan lab.</u>


According to American and European investigators, the network that supplied Libya was enormously complex, and not all the paths led directly back to the Khan laboratory. Centrifuge parts were made in Malaysia, and other parts were obtained in Germany and Japan. The Japanese last year seized critical equipment headed for North Korea, though they never announced it.

But both the centrifuge designs and the bomb designs seized in Libya appear to have come from the same country, according to experts who have reviewed them. "My understanding is that it did come from Pakistan," said David Albright, a physicist and president of the Institute for Science and International Security here.

The I.A.E.A. has not publicly said where the designs came from. But Mr. ElBaradei said publicly two weeks ago that weapons designs had been found and secured — apparently a reference to the documents flown to the United States. He did not say how Libya had obtained the blueprints or the origin of the bomb designs.

Mr. Khan was convicted in the Netherlands of stealing a centrifuge design in the 1970's. His conviction was overturned on a technicality, and American officials say it is possible that he or his associates also stole the warhead design in Pakistan without the government's knowledge. Mr. Khan had access to almost every aspect of Pakistan's nuclear program.

Mr. Khan has not spoken publicly since he was relieved of his post as an adviser to President Musharraf and accused — but not arrested — by Pakistani government officials of having supplied nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea and Libya.

Bush adminstration officials said today that they are waiting to see if Mr. Musharraf is willing to order his arrest, and face the wrath of Pakistani nationalists who regard Mr. Khan as a hero.

Statements by Mr. Khan's supporters already leave little doubt about the scientist's strategy: If arrested, he appears ready to argue that the Pakistani leadership knew about his transaction at the highest levels. That would put the White House in a difficult position, because President Bush is attempting to support Mr. Musharraf, a critical ally in tracking down members of Al Qaeda, while forcing him to shut down what officials say was a widespread source of nuclear proliferation.

The discoveries in Tripoli are causing intelligence agencies and investigators to revisit some older cases, including one involving Iraq — which documents suggest was offered nuclear technology before the start of the Persian Gulf war of 1991.

Mr. Albright and his associate, Corey Hinderstein, who have reviewed documents found at the farm of Hussein Kamel, Saddam Hussein's son in law, after he defected from Iraq in 1995. Mr. Kamel told the C.I.A. that many of Mr. Hussein's weapons had been destroyed — a statement that appears to be correct, in light of the findings of David A. Kay, the former chief American weapons inspector in Iraq.

A memorandum he turned over, dated June 10, 1990, appeared to be a proposal from an unidentified middleman referring to offers "from the Pakistani scientist Dr. Abd-el-Qadeer Khard regarding the possibility of helping Iraq establish a project ot enrich Uranium and manufacture a nuclear weapon."

The I.A.E.A. later concluded that that the Iraqis never took up the offer they already had sophisticated enrichment technology, and they suspected a sting operation or a scam

The I.A.E.A. reviewed the memorandum and informed the United Nations Security Council four years ago, but said its study of the memo, and whether it represented a genuine offer, was inconclusive. But American officials say that details in the memorandum match up with what they are now learning. [/quote]

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby SSridhar » 04 Feb 2004 08:38

The road to proliferation starts in Islamabad passes thru Bejing to Pongyang, Tripoli, Tehran & Istanbul.
Umrao John, a small correction. It starts in the SD at Washington.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Manne » 04 Feb 2004 08:52

Originally posted by Niranjan Rao:
[QB]
why is Iran cooperating so much
1. Pressure from nations - on going since a while, then
2. Got caught

I think there was a story about Brit Intel breaking into TSP Emby in London. If true, they must have got a ton of info on which countries were involved. QB]
Added to that, there's also the matter of reformists trying to set things right and Iran having witnessed what happened to Iraq. Iran may yet take on US but not for something it could sell to buy a second chance a la Libya.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby SSridhar » 04 Feb 2004 09:17

Iran also has other problems. It is unable to derive sufficient returns from its huge oil and gas reserves as most Western oil companies are unable/unwilling to work due to the D'Amato legislation. The gap is being filled by Hyundai, Petronas etc. but they are not good enough.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Neshant » 04 Feb 2004 09:44

I'm still surprised how quickly Xerox khan has moved from being a national hero to being branded a criminal. Its astonishing the amount of control US has over musharaff. It has implications for India.

My best guess is that the US is trying to scare all Pak nuclear scientists & especially the ISI into non-proliferation. Whether they will actually do anything to xerox remains to be seen. It may be just a drama, a scare tactic to warn would be ISI/scientist proliferators in Pak.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby James Bund » 04 Feb 2004 10:00

Abdul's best days have long been over, his most original contribution being the purloined centrifuge blueprints. Further there is no real evidence that uranium enrichment by Libya, Iran, North Korea or indeed Pakistan has ever produced fissionable U.

Why go after him now? I think it's to stigmatise, to delegitamise the Pakistani nuclear enterprise.It sets the agenda:there is a problem... America will help you fix it..and oversee your program with inspections, surveillance, access restriction to those with no beards, installation of saftey locks that contaminate nuclear labs or make the centrifuges spin fast enough to cause a little accident just when all 20 Pakistani nuclear engineers are in the building.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby eas » 04 Feb 2004 10:16

Mostly a spitting-venom-against-Mushy edit, but has some gems...
Nuclear Sales: The Toughest Test For Army and Musharraf


GENERAL Pervez Musharraf is a very unlucky man. The more he tries to extricate himself from the densely clogged web of domestic and regional hot wires, the more he sinks into the cesspool of uncertainty, despair and hopelessness.

Tragically all of this can easily be traced to his sheer incompetence, his bloated ego, pointless arrogance and needless bravado.
...

fter wasting 15 months, through sheer crookedness and arm-twisting, he pulled some politicians on board to get a Parliamentary majority. Then he came to the Parliament, sweated out his 15 minutes of infamy and left thinking his troubles may be over. Not yet.

Bang came the Western media blitz that Pakistan had been proliferating nukes and even during Musharraf’s days shipments to Libya had been detected. His nuclear deterrence had become an albatross around his neck. Now he is doomed if he admits the blame and will be damned if he does not.

No one else, fortunately, can be held responsible for Musharraf’s predicament. For the last 4 years he has been calling all the shots so he must take all the blame. His so-called elected Prime Minister has been too cunning with his folk wisdom – he never claimed to be in charge and always addressed the boss with his real title.

Musharraf has got into this box because he cannot think like a leader or a visionary. All his advisers are either boneheads or pygmies who cannot survive a day after Musharraf is gone. So their entire world depends on Musharraf’s survival.
...
Already, instead of taking a solid principled position on the issue, the country’s top scientists have been made the scapegoat, insulted, humiliated and dumped, forcing an spirited outcry on the streets. Is this a dignified position? Can Musharraf get away with throwing mud in everyone’s eyes? Will anyone agree with him that the Army was not involved in the whole affair? The then Army Chief General Aslam Beg is so nervous he is shouting from every roof top he is not involved. Beg even said Benazir was responsible. How stupid he thinks everybody is? Why can’t Beg be debriefed and asked some relevant questions? :D


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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Bharat » 04 Feb 2004 10:29

The other aspect of AQK is that in future a Pakistani scientist would think a hundred times before doing something illegal in another nation or proliferating to Fundoos etc etc. on Govt. orders.

Now only the hardline scientists would work with the super fundoos...

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Mudy » 04 Feb 2004 10:50


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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby SSridhar » 04 Feb 2004 10:58

The other aspect of AQK is that in future a Pakistani scientist would think a hundred times before doing something illegal in another nation or proliferating to Fundoos etc etc. on Govt. orders.
Bharat, TSP is founded on fraud, lies and subterfuge. That's how they were born and that's how they live. These characteristics have become national traits of every TSPian. They will not change because they have never learnt anything from history.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Manu » 04 Feb 2004 11:00

This whole "Past is Past" bunch is a pile of Horse Dung.

S Dept. shows true colors....are really willing to be *flexible* when it comes to fav. concubine.

Iraqis are bulldozed on "suspicions" of " WMD related Program Activities " (Bush speak) and Pakis are proliferating to everyone, but no problem "Past is Past".

Wait a minute, maybe they do respect international treaties, Pakis never signed NPT ...?

I sure hope Nook Nudity is the right answer.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby kgoan » 04 Feb 2004 12:13

Folks, a favour please:

If you find any links to the BCCI (Bank of Credit and Commerce International) scandal within the context of Pak prolif, please post it here, in *full* if necessary.

This is vital!

If the financing was done through BCCI, then there will be links that go from Pak through the drug cartels and probably to dim and dark places in the beltway. (And not just chefs in the culinary institute).

It would be nice to see if there's an circumstantial evidence to tie the whole boondoogle together. So please post *anything* you find that mentions BCCI in the current context.

Thanks.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby svinayak » 04 Feb 2004 12:23

Kg, Also to the UK. BCCI operated mostly from UK and the ME.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Suraj » 04 Feb 2004 12:40

PAKISTAN'S INVOLVEMENT IN NARCO-TERRORISM (Congressional Record from fas.org)

Link with more sublinks about BCCI, drugs and nukes
Excerpts (lots more tidbits on the webpage and links):
BCCI the largest criminal bank in human history, in 1972, was the center of a global laundry and a conduit for transactions involving arms, drugs, and nuclear technology.

BCCI founder Agha Hasan Abedi was committed to the development of an Islamic atomic bomb, even donating 500 million rupees for the creation of Pakistan's Gulam Ishaq Research Institute for nuclear development. (BCCI paid the lawyer for Dr. Abdul Qader Khan, head of Pakistan's nuclear program, who a Dutch court convicted in 1983 of stealing the blueprints for a uranium enrichment factory. Three Pakistanis indicted in Houston in 1984 had tried to buy nuclear triggers using BCCI gold. A Pakistani-born Canadian, indicted in Philadelphia in 1987 for conspiracy to export restricted specialty steel and metal to enhance nuclear explosions, paid for the materials through BCCI Toronto. Etc.)

In 1990, BCCI was convicted of money laundering for the Columbian Cocaine Cartels in Miami.
Another link, about the death of a journalist investigating BCCI, with more stuff
Pakistani ISI and opium/drug connections
Link about OBL and Bush, with stuff about BCCI and paknukes
DEALING WITH THE DEMON

More about BCCI
Excerpt:
Furthermore BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts.

Yet more BCCI ties
Excerpts:
BCCI-founder Abedi got Jimmy Carter to publicize BCCI to heads of state around the world. Abedi made his personal 727 jet available to Carter, and accompanied the former President to Thailand, Tibet, Hong Kong, and the Soviet Union, among other places. Carter introduced Abedi to many heads of state, from Deng Xiaoping in China to James Callahan in the U.K. Abedi donated a half million dollars to establish the Carter presidential library, and a public policy institute at Emory university.

More BCCI stuff
Excerpts:
"You're onto something and you're correct about there being no separation between [Agha Hasan] Abedi and Pakistan's intelligence agency, the ISI [Inter-Services Intelligence]. A number of Pakistan's generals have been on Abedi's private payroll for years. You might not be aware of it, but several people in the State Department have resigned over the years in protest to the extent of our tilt to Pakistan. We gave them unauthorized satellite and communications technology as well as authorized sophisticated technology like the F-16 fighter plane program, and your friend Abedi and BCCI were in the middle of all of it.

"I don't know how your Navstar documents got to the Soviets. But if the Pakistanis obtained Synthetic aperture Radar, as your source says, somebody stole it from us. We gave them the Landsat processing equipment you talked about, but that was more or less aboveboard. They could see everything India was doing. Why do you think India built up such a massive army?"

John Kerry and his link to BCCI
Excerpt:
In 1992, Kerry coauthored a report for the Committee on Foreign Relations on the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), "an elaborate corporate spider-web" that defrauded depositors of billions of dollars, engaged in money laundering, arms trafficking, and allegedly facilitated the development of Pakistan's nuclear arms program. Kerry pursued the charges against the "Bank of Crooks and Criminals International," as it became known, despite the involvement of the late Clark Clifford, an advisor to four Democratic presidents. Clifford was the president of First American Bank, a Washington, D.C.-based, federally regulated bank that was secretly and illegally bought by BCCI with Clifford's aid in the mid-1980s.

I've only skimmed most of the links I posted. It makes me sick. The BCCI was just the front, from what it looks like. And the tentacles run a long way into the US financial and political establishment. Is it any surprise Al Qoulin will believe Mushy if he said pigs flew in TSP :(

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby SSridhar » 04 Feb 2004 12:59

Kgoan, See this extensive report

The relationship between BCCI, the Pakistani government, and the BCCI Foundation had been deeply entangled from the start. As in the Bangladesh version of the BCCI Foundation, the Pakistani BCCI Foundation was created as a means of sheltering BCCI profits from taxation. In 1981, it received tax-free status while Ishaq Khan was Pakistan's minister of finance. In turn, the foundation received BCCI's profits from Pakistani operations, and then used some of those profits to finance projects the Pakistani government wanted and could not pay for itself. For example, BCCI provided $10 million in grants in the late 1980's to finance an officially "private" science and technology institute named for Pakistani President Ishaq Khan, whose director, A. Qadir Khan, has been closely associated with Pakistan's efforts to build a nuclear bomb. The institute is believed by some experts to be the headquarters for Pakistan's efforts to build an Islamic bomb. In the same period, other BCCI officials were assisting Pakistanis in purchasing nuclear technologies paid for by Pakistani-front companies through BCCI-Canada.(94)

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby kgoan » 04 Feb 2004 13:05

Suraj, SSridhar:

Many thanks. There's some stuff on those links I hadn't seen before. Good stuff.

But folks, please also keep an eye out for anything *new*. i.e. Any *recent* stuff, (meaning anything written in "reputable"** media since the Xerox stuff blew up in Paks face), that mentions BCCI in the current context.

**Yeah, yeah I know. No need to go on about what's "reputable media" folks. You know what I mean. Needs to be "reputable" otherwise it can't be cited later on when we need to use it. And anything to do with BCCI requires that sort of "special" handling. :)

Acharya: Yes, agreed.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby SSridhar » 04 Feb 2004 13:11

The pretence is over by Shri K. Subrahmanyam.
Some Pakistani estimates put the country’s expenditure on its nuclear programme at $10 billion. Money was no consideration since it did not come from Pakistani sources but from Libya , Saudi Arabia , Iraq (initially), UAE and from the depositors of BCCI (Bank of Credit and Commerce International), the bank which failed in 1992. The bank founded by Pakistani Agha Hasan Abedi dealt with money laundering, the drug trade, clandestine arms deals etc. It was funded at the start by the royal family of Dubai . The current Pakistani disclosures reveal that the network for the international black market on nuclear technology operated from Dubai
A Q Khan has now become the nemesis of western hypocrisy on non-proliferation and of the Pakistani military establishment. It is not easy for General Musharraf to maintain that the Pak military and the ISI had no clue of Khan’s vast operations. They do know that without the European nuclear black market network, the Pakistani nuclear arsenal cannot be sustained indefinitely. Obviously, such an enormous operation could not have been missed out by the CIA, MI-6 and secret services of all major western countries. The commitment of the West to non-proliferation was never genuine.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Rich » 04 Feb 2004 13:18

<img src="http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/031226/manjul.jpg" alt="" />

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby SSridhar » 04 Feb 2004 14:52

Khan-Musharraf meeting currently under progress... Khan spoke to MMA chief before that.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby jrjrao » 04 Feb 2004 15:49

Hey, it is time to end this tamaasha. Mush needs to go on, on to doing great things for his country, and this world. No point in making the foggies burp unnecessarily any more.

Pakistan scientist asks for clemency for nuclear leaks
"Dr A.Q. Khan submitted before the President that he accepts full responsibility for all the proliferation activities, which were conducted by him during the period in which he was at the helm of affairs of Khan Research Laboratories," the government said in a statement.

"Dr Khan has submitted his mercy petition to the president and requested for clemency, in view of his services to national security," the statement added.

In his first public remarks since an investigation into the nuclear leaks by Pakistan was launched over two months ago, Khan told state-run Pakistan Television he had requested the meeting.

"The president was extremely kind and understanding. We discussed this ongoing affair, the international campaign against Pakistan about nuclear matters," he said.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby jrjrao » 04 Feb 2004 15:54

Editorial in the Telegraph, UK:

Pakistan behaves like a rogue state
There was something shocking about the photographs of a garlanded Abdul Qadeer Khan after Pakistan had exploded its first nuclear bomb. The reasons for the test were obvious - arch-rival India had detonated a similar weapon a couple of weeks before - but fêting such a devastating device with flowers had a sinister ring. Pakistan was rejoicing in heightened tension in a region that Bill Clinton was later to call the most dangerous in the world.

Nearly six years on, that unease appears more than justified. Dr Khan not only developed Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, but in the process also passed on the designs and technology for producing enriched uranium to Iran, North Korea and Libya. The first two are part of George W Bush's "axis of evil", while the third has recently agreed with America and Britain to dismantle its programme for developing weapons of mass destruction. Islamabad, a key ally of the West in the war on terror, has turned out to be a proliferator on a par with Pyongyang.

These highly embarrassing revelations have shown General Pervaiz Musharraf in a poor light. First, he attempted to ascribe the nuclear "leaks" to the greed of Dr Khan and his fellow scientists, acting on their own. That never rang true; nuclear policy has long been tightly controlled by the army. Now it is believed that the president will pardon Dr Khan rather than put him on trial for treason. The garlanded scientist is such a hero that the army fears the political consequences of letting the law take its course. Moreover, in the witness box he might well implicate Gen Musharraf and other officers in the sale of nuclear technology. The Khan case has again demonstrated the limits of the president's power. First over guerrilla infiltration into Kashmir and Afghanistan, now over nuclear proliferation, he falls well short of what the West would like.

The problem for Washington and its allies, for which they deserve sympathy, is that a successor to Gen Musharraf, especially of the Islamist variety, might be a good deal worse. For that reason, the Bush Administration is likely to accept any pardon of Dr Khan through gritted teeth, arguing that Pakistani proliferation is a thing of the past. Washington still needs Gen Musharraf's co-operation in lowering tension with India and in allowing Afghanistan to hold elections under its new constitution.

The Democrats hoping to challenge Mr Bush in November are unlikely to fall in with such realpolitik. They will argue that he is condoning actions worthy of a rogue state, and thereby sending a disastrous signal to other would-be proliferators. In that, they will be backed by the United Nations' International Atomic Energy Agency, to which Iran has admitted it was a recipient of Pakistani nuclear technology.

Mr Bush finds himself caught between particular needs in one theatre of operations and a strategic determination to halt proliferation. The contradiction is among the most striking thrown up by the seismic shock of September 11.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby jrjrao » 04 Feb 2004 16:08

Pakistani Finger-Pointing and Denials Spread in the Furor Over Nuclear Transfers Abroad
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/04/international/asia/04STAN.html
Any revelation that General Musharraf supported transfers would put both American and Pakistani officials in a politically awkward and dangerous position. :whine: Since he reversed Pakistan's support for the Taliban after the September 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States, the general has been hailed by the Bush administration as a firm ally in the campaign against terrorism.

But critics in Congress have said the general is not doing enough to crack down on militancy in Pakistan and restore full democracy in the country. Links to nuclear transfers could only intensify that criticism.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Sarma » 04 Feb 2004 16:47

Pakis are clean, says Amritraj!
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Sarma » 04 Feb 2004 16:50

Mushy and Xerox Khan have a "fine" meeting :lol:

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby Sarma » 04 Feb 2004 17:14

The more the revelations about Pakis, the greater is the cover-up by the US foggies. First mention of transfers of not just centrifuges, but bomb designs as well. Talks about the bomb designs being the 1960s Chinese ones, transferred to Pakistan. If all this charade is not just a sophisticated screw-India move by the US, whatelse can one call it! DANK report's thesis is coming true.

page 1 of the article

page 2 of NY times article

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 31 Jan 2004

Postby SSridhar » 04 Feb 2004 17:28

Abdul Xerox just appeared on TSP TV and read out an apology. Paraphrasing...He takes responsiility and he now realises that his actions have the potential to place TSP security at stake. He asks TSPians not to politicise this issue in national interest.

I think, considering his earlier request for composite debriefing and his implication of Musharraf, the climbdown is due to a deal between him and the CEO. That also explains the telephonic discussion he had with Qazi Hussain on Tuesday night before the meeting with the CEO.


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