Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Prof Raghu
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Prof Raghu » 06 Feb 2004 16:27

From SSridhar's link above to Ayaz Amir -- see the following. Just confirms that the so-called moderate Pakistanis are much more rabid about their stolen nukes than anyone else!
_______________

...

The North Korean angle, however, doesn't fit the "glory of Islam" line. What was Khan doing with North Korea? Or were the guardians of Pakistan's nuclear capability in the dark about that too? It is widely suspected Khan had some sort of a North Korean connection. What did intelligence specialists in Islamabad think this connection was for? To promote cultural exchanges?

After Khan's confession it would have been natural if he were denounced for betraying the nation's trust. But public reaction (read the papers) is altogether different: that by accepting blame Khan has done the nation one more service. Judging from this, my guess is the whole confession affair will be taken as the Pakistani version of the Hutton Report - whitewashing the guardians and making a sacrificial lamb of Khan.

Sacrificing Khan is a small price to pay if it saves Pakistan's nuke capability. But do we really take the Yanks to be so dumb? Will they take Khan's confession at face value that he was the lone ranger of proliferation?

...

So what should Pakistan have done? We should have protected Khan even if he was guilty of proliferation charges. We should have used our services in Afghanistan as a trading chip to ward off American pressure and, summoning a bit of nerve, to tell the Americans that the past was the past and should be allowed to bury its dead. By thus protecting Khan we would have been protecting ourselves.

...

But just as madams with a past don't flaunt their past, it hasn't served Pakistan's interests to go about uncovering its nuclear past in such a blithe manner.

...

We wanted the bomb so badly we made Khan Emperor of Kahuta. Emperors make mistakes but then they are not alone in making them. In trying to convince the world he acted on his own, we may save a skin or two but at the cost of imperilling the future of what we once considered our most sacred possession. This choice made in a moment of national weakness is likely to haunt Pakistan for years to come.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby SSridhar » 06 Feb 2004 16:44

Nuclear expert receives pardon from Musharraf - NY Times
Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, the leader of a pro-Musharraf political party, the Pakistan Muslim League Quaid-e-Azam, conducted the secret negotiations with Dr. Khan, a senior party official said. The deal's elements — the request for a pardon, public apology and granting of the pardon — came together this week. The official said the deal aimed to avoid a public backlash against the government, to prevent opposition political parties from turning Dr. Khan's case into a political issue, and to prevent details of China's nuclear weapons assistance to Pakistan from becoming public.

A senior member of the Pakistan Muslim League Quaid-e-Azam, told a Pakistani journalist that Chinese officials had expressed a desire[color='blue'](since when is 'desire' a synonym for 'warning' ?)</font> for the inquiry to end quickly. The senior party official said government officials did not fear that Dr. Khan would identify top army officials if prosecuted. They feared he would publicly detail China's assistance — an embarrassment to a crucial ally that Pakistan considers a strategic counterweight to India.

Western nonproliferation experts believe China has provided Pakistan with a nuclear warhead design, ballistic missile aid and help with a plutonium production reactor.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby daulat » 06 Feb 2004 17:34

http://in.news.yahoo.com/040205/137/2bbwn.html
By Simon Denyer
"A.Q. Khan has been made a scapegoat," said Samina Ahmed, Pakistan director of the International Crisis Group, a Brussels-based think thank. "Will the issue die that easily in Pakistan? It will be interesting to see."
identity of mysterious brussels based 'diplomat' to be oft quoted in TSP press now revealed?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby arun » 06 Feb 2004 17:40

Jack Straw's take :



Pakistan Nuclear Threat 'Different' to Iraq - Straw

Iraq’s alleged proliferation of weapons of mass destruction was “a different situation” from Pakistan’s spread of nuclear arms secrets, Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said today.

Straw, at a press conference in New Delhi, said Iraq broke UN resolutions and the United States and Britain were forced to act militarily.

He responded after being asked why Britain used a different yardstick when comparing Pakistan’s weapons proliferation to Iraq’s.

Britain reacted without condemnation when Pakistan’s top nuclear scientist – Abdul Qadeer Khan – was pardoned by President General Pervez Musharraf after passing on nuclear technology information to Iran, Libya, and North Korea.

“The situations are different,” Straw said. “We judged that their (Iraq’s) breach of the United Nations Security Council resolutions was so serious as to warrant the action that we took.”

The US and Britain accused Saddam Hussein of being an “imminent” threat because, they said, Iraq possessed nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons which could fall into the hands of terrorist groups.

No such weapons have been found since the March 20, 2003, invasion, however.

Straw said nations that have signed the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty must observe their obligations.

Citing the examples of Iran and Libya, he said the treaty was an effective control against proliferation.

India’s External Affairs Minister Yashwant Sinha, who also addressed the press conference, said the proliferation of nuclear technology by Pakistani scientists could not be viewed as an internal matter.

“Obviously things will not stop here. It is a matter that concerns the international community, as Pakistan is not a signatory of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty,” Sinha said.

India – also nuclear-armed – is not a signatory either.


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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby daulat » 06 Feb 2004 17:57

see the caveat?

if (npt sign = true .and. WMD programme = true) then
war = true
else if (npt sign = false .and. country = TSP) then
ignore = true
deny = true
do while (i < 1000)
forgive = forgive + 1
end do
else
statement$ = "India/Pakistan equal=equal"
India = bad
end if

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby SSridhar » 06 Feb 2004 18:02

US asks TSP not to do 'it' again , but share the information with us...
It is important that Pakistan take steps to make sure that it is not a source of proliferation again, either with materials, equipment, or especially with the intangibles, the expertise that can help other countries develop Weapons of Mass Destruction, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher, told reporters here yesterday.

"We see Pakistan taking steps that go to that end. We see Pakistan developing information as part of an investigation that is useful to the whole international community to go after this private network, this network of people sharing materials, information and expertise. And we would expect them to share that information with the international community. Those are the important things," he said.

In an apparent disapproval of the Presidential pardon to the father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb, Abdul Qadeer Khan, for leaking nuclear secrets, he said: "We would expect any country that is conducting an investigation to decide what the appropriate penalties under their judicial system and their laws."

Whether it is Pakistan or Malaysia, the US, he said, would expect any country that is conducting an investigation to decide the appropriate penalties under their judicial system and their laws.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby SSridhar » 06 Feb 2004 18:04

Pallone wants US to monitor TSP nuke programme.
"I am writing to you today to express my deep concern regarding the recent developments of Pakistan's transfer of nuclear equipment to North Korea, Iran and Libya.

"In the last several days, Dr. A.Q. Khan has admitted his role in providing nuclear technology to non-nuclear nations, however, President Musharraf has pardoned Dr. Khan, declared him a national hero, and refused to allow for further inquiry into this situation.

"This is extremely disconcerting on a number of levels, and I request the State Department work with UN and appropriate agencies to enter Pakistan and monitor its nuclear programme," Pallone wrote in the letter.

He said although Pakistan had been declared an ally in the global war on terror, its nuclear behaviour exemplified just the opposite.

"I fear that there are no safeguards in place to prevent further nuclear assistance from Pakistan to rogue nations that do not have an agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency, and therefore UN supervision is necessary to ensure Pakistan is no longer capable of allowing nuclear information to fall into wrong hands."

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Raj Singh » 06 Feb 2004 18:52

Iran Nuclear Chronology 1986

.

February 1986
Abdul Qadir Khan, Pakistan's leading nuclear scientist, makes a secret visit to Bushehr. Pakistan and Iran sign a secret nuclear cooperation agreement later in the year.
--Kenneth R. Timmerman, "Weapons of Mass Destruction: The Cases of Iran, Syria and Libya," a Simon Wiesenthal Center Special Report, August 1992, p. 41-42.

----------------------------------------------------
.

November 1986
Following a request from Iran, Pakistan's president says Pakistan is willing to cooperate with Iran on nuclear matters.
--Worldwide Report, 17 February 1987, p. 38; in Saeed Qureshi, The Muslim (Islamabad), 23 November 1986, p. 1.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby SSridhar » 06 Feb 2004 19:20

Things happening thick and fast...

Kin question detention of other scientists while Khan goes scot free.
Expressing "shock and dismay" over President Pervez Musharraf's decision that all the accused scientists would continue to be in detention, the family members questioned the pardon granted to Dr. Khan but not others who acted on his instructions.

"This is so confusing a situation as the head of the organization whose orders were being followed has been pardoned but the subordinates are given no relief," media reports quoted Saima Adil, elder daughter of detained nuclear scientist Nazeer Ahmad, as saying.

Asim, son of another detained scientist, Dr Farooq Muhammad said Dr. Khan had clearly accepted responsibility of all the acts, thus clearing the position of those serving under him.

Accusing the detained scientists of selling nuclear technology for money, Musharraf last night told the media that they would continue to be in detention until the Government decided otherwise.

Both Asim and Saima Adil insisted that they strongly believe that Dr Khan's confessional statement has resulted from pressure to bail the country out of the current crisis.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Vijay J » 06 Feb 2004 19:36

Did talbot get some sweet stuff through BCCI too for looking the other way so that NPT signatories like Iran and Libya could secretly build nuclear programs?

Is it okay to say that the entire non proliferation regime appears to have been built in such a way that it generated vast profits and maximized the kickback to influential people in Washington DC?

When these non proliferation people say India was the problem, are they actually trying to say that India would not voluntarily pay black market rates for the stuff instead asked for over the counter deals and that the India played the P5 against each other to ensure that it got the best over the counter deal, so there was no scope for talking heads in DC to make any real money?

BCCI fell apart because there were too many greedy hands in the money pot. There must be a succesor someone that took its place because clearly the nuclear and the drug market did not die then, and it must have continued to generate kickbacks.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Div » 06 Feb 2004 20:15

I've just been thinkin...all these nuke proliferation reports seem to describe the Paki tactics as the "worse case of nuclear proliferation known" - shouldn't we be seeing an emergency UN Security Council/General Assembly meeting to discuss this and maybe calls for across the board sanctions? Kofi and his posse seem to be a little quiet these days.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby AJay » 06 Feb 2004 20:33

Originally posted by Johann:
Originally posted by Rangudu:
[b]Johann,

When you say overt inspection, I take it you include the Pakistani facilities.
Yes absolutely.
[/b]
Musharraf has said (paraphrasing here) that no rollback of Paki Nuke program will be allowed. Also, just heard a wail by IAEA spokeswoman about desperately needing information on Paki nuc program.

Joahnn

Do you think that Pakistan would allow overt intrusive inspections even when they are not signatory to NPT and are not being forced to be signatories? I am looking for an answer which does not contain the word India or any oblique references to it by the word "neighbor".

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby fanne » 06 Feb 2004 20:47

Do you guys think the self flageration on the day 'after' the pardon in western press is targeted at audience like us,(to lessen the anger at this nautanki) to say, see we feel your concern, we are not hippos, we are credible... so next time when we say India is bad, believe us and get rid of your ....(pick your favorite)

Sorry guys if I sound cynical but I believe that this may be the truth... dont feel happy/optimistic about all this jhapad, it's pre planned, to convince us that west does have a moral high ground over us dark yindoos.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby AJay » 06 Feb 2004 21:00

Originally posted by Johann:
There's no doubt that there were mistakes in Western threat assessment. Its possible to recognise that without public self-flagellation.
An absense of such a public self-flagellation is a hallmark of somebody who does not learn from past mistakes and would be punished for those same mistakes in the future. To make that abstract thought concrete, if US citizenry comes to a colective conclusion that Bush's policies are inimical to their personal security, he would be out pronto come Nov 04. Bush would do well to fire the foggies starting from Al Quolin (or indicate that they would not be part of the administration in Jan 05) if he wants to keep his job.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby AJay » 06 Feb 2004 21:16

Originally posted by suryavir:
2) How can anybody rest assured that the international community (led by the US)has the will and the wherewithal to blow the cover off the proliferation racket and ensure its permanent death?
Suryavir

I agree with the rest of your post, but the above is impossible. It is axiomatic that the nuclear genie cannot be stuffed back into the bottle.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Nandu » 06 Feb 2004 21:23

Transcripts from yesterday's Newshour:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/jan-june04/pakistannuclear_02-05.html

Realaudio of yesterday's Forum program on KQED radio, San Francisco.

http://www.kqed.org/.stream/real/radio/forum/2004/02/2004-02-05a-forum.rm.ram

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby AJay » 06 Feb 2004 21:33

Originally posted by James Bund:

-turn into a liberal, secular democracy.
Turn into 5 or 6 liberal secular democracoes would be even better.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Nandu » 06 Feb 2004 21:37

Originally posted by Div:
I've just been thinkin...all these nuke proliferation reports seem to describe the Paki tactics as the "worse case of nuclear proliferation known" - shouldn't we be seeing an emergency UN Security Council/General Assembly meeting to discuss this and maybe calls for across the board sanctions?
Pakistan has proven itself to be an irresponsible nuclear state, which is also a state sponsor of terrorism. The refusal to put Qadeer Khan on trial shows the involvement of the top echelons of the Pakistani Army and Civilian government in the proliferation of nuclear technology to terrorist countries. Pakistan's security establishment also is in close cohorts with several non-state terrorist organizations, and has links with Al Qaeda. When you consider these facts, sanctions are far from adequate. The only appropriate action that can secure the world from the threat of nuclear armed terrorism is to completely destroy all of Pakistan's nuclear weapons and materials capabilities. Anything less is a whitewash.

The United Sates is being highly irresponsible by throwing its support behind Pakistan at this critical juncture.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby suryavir » 06 Feb 2004 21:43

Posted by AJay
It is axiomatic that the nuclear genie cannot be stuffed back into the bottle.
AJay, I don't think the world can afford to throw in the towel so soon; the dangers to the world are too great to take that defeatist attitude so easily. Yes, it is an enormously difficult problem and may be an impossible problem. Pakistan, along with China, have been the biggest mischief makers in proliferating nukes on the global scene: NK, Libya, Iran, Iraq, and who knows where else.

While in due course China's role will also need to be examined, the most imminent threat to the world is from the Pakistani nuclear program. I think if the US accepts at face value the charade we have witnessed over the last few days and allows Pakistan to escape real consequences, the US is guaranteeing a another 911, with a nuclear dimension this time. I certainly hope that the Bush Administration will not be so foolish in bringing a death wish upon itself - but we have witnessed stranger things in the last two years, haven't we?

This matter cannot be treated as business as usual this time. There must be some ramifications. While there may not be punishments for Pakistan for past proliferation, on grounds of political expediency, at a very minimum some regimen of oversight must be imposed on the Pakistani nuclear program to prevent further proliferation. To not do so would be a dereliction of duty by the Bush Administration of the highest order.

Added later: Ideally of course the Pakistani program must be completely dismantled (as Nandu says above) on grounds that Pakistan has proven, beyond a shadow of doubt, that it is reckless and irresponsible state that cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby jarugn » 06 Feb 2004 21:46

CIA director picks on Malaysian company!

http://nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Malaysia-Nuclear.html?hp

Tenet made his comments Thursday in a speech at Georgetown University to defend prepare intelligence.

``Now, as you know from the news coming out of Pakistan, Khan and his network have been dealt a crushing blow and several of his senior officers are in custody. Malaysian authorities have shut down one of the network's largest plants. His network is now answering to the world for years of nuclear profiteering,'' Tenet said.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby ramana » 06 Feb 2004 21:47

Sridhar,
Can we translate the Mushy press conf for the benefit of all? Thanks, ramana

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Amber G. » 06 Feb 2004 21:52

Sridhar,
Can we translate the Mushy press conf for the benefit of all? Thanks, ramana
Can you? ..Please!!! (I have tried to listen but no luck - the link - for me - does not work -- is there any place where the transcripts are?.. Thanks.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Mudy » 06 Feb 2004 21:56

ramana,Amber G.
You must listen original, it is hilarious, his dialoques are from Bollywood. Gosh, Mushy talk like Pandu, his tone is like really mavali or some sarak chaap. I am not really sure whether all Pakistani talk like him.
Well have fun. :D

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Div » 06 Feb 2004 21:59

Yes Nandu, but the UN purports to be a higher moral authority so imo its silence is extremely damning.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby James Bund » 06 Feb 2004 22:00

Ayaz Amir fully understands the ground situation, but he is deluding himself if he thinks there is any other way for Pakistan to play it except to grovel. Pakistan is not Iran.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby jarugn » 06 Feb 2004 22:01

Giving Pakistan a pass - Bush is no good!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17474-2004Feb5.html

Such belligerence could be expected from a military ruler. What's hard to believe is the Bush administration's reaction to it. Rather than moving to impose sanctions on Pakistan -- action that might be expected for a government that has been caught providing the technology for nuclear weapons to such countries as Iran, Libya and North Korea -- it has swallowed his coverup and even congratulated him on it. "We value the commitments Mr. Musharraf has made to prevent the expertise in Pakistan from reaching other places," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said yesterday. "We think that Pakistan is taking serious efforts to end the activities of a dangerous network." As for the pardon of Mr. Khan -- who by Pakistan's account is probably the worst criminal in the history of nuclear weapons proliferation -- "I don't think it's a matter for the United States to sit in judgment on," Mr. Boucher said.

President Bush has said since Sept. 11, 2001, that his first mission as president is to prevent the spread of weapons of mass destruction to terrorists and the regimes that sponsor them. His national security doctrine declares that even preemptive military action is justified in order to stop it. Yet now that Pakistan's regime has been caught making such transfers, his administration is seemingly prepared to accept its implausible alibi, allow the very generals who oversaw the traffic to investigate it, and trust that they won't do it again. There's no need for U.S. or U.N. action, suggests Mr. Boucher: "What penalties, sanctions, controls or steps are used to prevent it from happening again, those are up for individual governments to decide," he said. "It's up to the Pakistani government to make sure that this sort of thing doesn't happen again." Iran and North Korea, which are facing U.S. demands for intrusive international inspections and the threat of a referral to the U.N. Security Council, may take comfort from those words.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Nandu » 06 Feb 2004 22:13

I think it is high time we arranged a state visit by our President to the United States of America. The more ceremonial, the better. :D

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Neshant » 06 Feb 2004 22:21

Since the North Korea and to some extent Iran horse has already bolted from the stables, one wonders what was the purpose of the whole drama. Obviously musharaff would never imprison the nation's top nuke scientist.

It may be a convenient excuse for Pak to not hand over nukes to Saudi Arabia. They can now claim they are under strict observation by the US and can't handover anything.

So the saudis who bankrolled Pak's program end up swindled.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Aarya » 06 Feb 2004 23:08

Yesterday, Musharraf was angry at the journalists because they were not thinking how much damage it could cause Pakistan if the role of the Army or Govt. is exposed. In his words, UNSC could impose sanctions, IAEA could demand inspections, creating a danger for the Pakistan's vital interests. In his words, "these people might be taking orders from outside, they are putting the nation at risk by implicating the army".

Today, Yashwant Sinha siezed on the moment and categorically declared this proliferation is not an internal issue of Pakistan. A masterful stragetic stroke, IMO.

We need to expose the Paki army's involvement.

At this time when W is trying to sweep everything under the rug in preperation of the election --there by creating an unprecidented danger to the world atlarge, the best bet seems to be arming the democratic candidates with material against the administration.

Sending a detailed letter to the four major dem candidates backed by references might just do the trick to turn on the pressure on Papistan as well as the US administration (State Dept).

Any volunteers?

Websites of the candidates:
http://johnkerry.com/
http://www.deanforamerica.com/

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/home.asp
http://www.clark04.com/

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Kumar » 06 Feb 2004 23:11

Originally posted by ramana:
Sridhar,
Can we translate the Mushy press conf for the benefit of all? Thanks, ramana
Ramana,

It is a really long press conference 1hour 36minutes. I have transcribed the first ten minutes. Others can join in.

--------------------------------
Musharraf's press conference transcripts (First 10 minutes)
---------------------------------


Ladies & Gentlemen, it is indeed my pleasure in addressing you and answering you, whatever question you have. But since this is a mixed gathering , or although it is a mixed gathering, I am compelled to speak in my mother tongue, Urdu, because what I am going to talk is more for the domestic audience. But wherever important I will indicate and also turn into English.

[Urdu begin]

This is a very historic conference, this conference, many things have happened, many historic things have happened and I haven’t met you in a while. Therefore I thought that this is an opportunity where I come in front of you and talk with you freely.

Gentlemen, Pakistan at this time, in my opinion is standing at a fork in the road. I have said this many times but I would like to repeat, because I am not merely talking empty, this is correct, this is indeed.

On one side, this fork is such that on one side we can make progress, prosperity, development and towards happiness we can go, if we adopt the correct path and keep going. Because we are at that stage to be able to go along that path. On the other side if we leave the correct path, keep going backwards, especially a defeatist mentality, a tendency of negativism and cyinicism if we adopt, if we keep crying over ourselves, and leaving the correct path, a downward path is also clear for us which I think our coming generations will never forgive. Because in my view there is an opportunity, this opportunity was never there before, and we are wasting this opportunity.

In this state of affairs, at this fork in the road our country is standing. Upon us, internationally there have been four accusations. This also I have told many times. But I will like to repeat again. First, that whatever is happening in Afghanistan is happening from Pakistan. Whatever is happening in IHK, Indian held Kashmir, that also is happening from Pakistan. Whatever nuclear proliferation has happened, that also has happened from Pakistan. And internally Pakistan is a terrorist, extremeist and fundamentalist society. These four negative perceptions are common in the world. I am telling this with full confidence, I have just returned from abroad, and approximately met all the media leaders of the world, in Davos. All of them ask me this same question. Definitely I keep on giving clarifications. Deinitely I keep trying to protect Pakistan.
[Urdu end]

[English begin]
Today I am not going to talk on these four issues. Today I will talk only on nuclear proliferation. I am talking only on nuclear proli… (fumbles for correct pronunciation), proliferation. I am not talking of anything else. But I would accept question on Kashmir also. Because this is the Kashmir day, 5th of February, and I have just come back from Muzaffarabad, aftyer addressing Azad J&K assembly and council, and I have spoken my mind there. Whoever has heard it, or whatever points you have, I would be too glad to answer questions on nuclear proliferation, nuclear aspect and Kashmir. But I am talking only of nuclear proliferation. [English end]
[Urdu begin]
Nowadays in all international media, talk is of nuclear proliferation, all the time CNN, BBC, any, anywhere in the world, these same talks are taking place. And Pakistan and Pakistan’s scientists are at the centerstage. It is also being said that Pakistan is a main source, hub, of nuclear proliferation activity. It is regrettable that one can see in many of our local media, that even they are pushing this forward that, government is also involved, military are also involved, scientists too, and also that scientists are not but govt and army are. They perhaps don’t realize that what could be the consequence of these things. Do they do this knowingly, or taking instructions from outside, or else they have no sense. In any case I would like to tell you for your understanding what could happen.

If government is involved, first thing, UN security council could apply sanctions on us. And in this vein if you look at N. Korea, and remember Iran and Libya. Look at this also who used to talk big, and now who have genuflected, who are lying supine, remember this too. Pardons are being asked, who is asking for pardons, we or others? Second thing is this, that people say that we are irresponsible government, so sign CTBT, NPT and rollback. Third thing, there are a few rouge states, we could join them too. The government doesn’t know how to do anything, so lets declare them rougues. And fourth thing, it can happen, that our vital national interests come under physical danger.

This I have told you upfront, these dangers are. We, our community, if its wants to get into this, then lets go, let me join you too. Lets move forward, (lets see) which way we will come out.

Where critical national interests are facing dire consequences, as they are now, there emotional, parochial, political (considerations) should be given up. We should work with seriousness. After thinking decisions should be made and actions taken. First of all (above all), actions for Pakistan should be taken. In the minds t one thing we should have, Pakistan. What we need to save, what we need justo take forward. This is not the time for emotionalism, neither for politics.

I am seeing all the programs on TV, articles are coming in the press, discussions are happening. This I have to say with regret that misunderstandings are being created.

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby ramana » 06 Feb 2004 23:14

Maybe best to cut VCD or DVD? Mudy?

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Rak » 06 Feb 2004 23:18

India forced to bite its tongue: ATimes

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FB07Df05.html

ramana
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby ramana » 06 Feb 2004 23:18

The story so far:
The chefs knew all along AXK's shennanigans- G. Tenet at Georgetown Uty 2/5/04
AXK was using BCCI for the finanical transactions - So DC bigwigs were tainted
TSP transfers took place in three time periods
- When Gen Beg was COAS - 1988 to 1991
- When Gen Karamat was COAS - 1996- 1998
- when Gen Mushy was in charge - 1998 - present

Talbott explains how uncle was unable to pressure TSP to put controls after the 1998 tests and cites India as the difficult child. Equal- Equal chant.

Actually he casts a 'strobe' on the reason for the quiet period between Beg and Karamat.
- Could it be to induce India to accede to shitty bitty during the quiet period? That period is the Clinton Admin period in the US

Rye
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Rye » 06 Feb 2004 23:21

http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/feb/06khan.htm

(self edited: this item has some quotes from David Albright, not madeleine. Thanks, sridhar. Must be my mid-afternoon blindness)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FB07Df05.html

Asia times article on India's response

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Sridhar » 06 Feb 2004 23:23

We need to convert this into a sound file ASAP. It may disappear from the website. Also, the link does not work all the time. I tried to access it but it did not work just now.

Can somebody convert this into a sound file and then we can figure out a way to pass it around to multiple people to transcribe. It is not tough Urdu that Mush uses and anybody with a knowledge of Hindi would be able to understand it perfectly.

I think it would be valuable to have a complete transcript. There is much meat there (particularly when he refers to the history of the bomb making/stealing programme with some specific dates). There are many lies there which can be exposed. However, it is just too long for any single person to transcribe. A group of 5-6 people would be useful.

Ashok has already done the first 10 mins. I can transcribe the next 15 minutes or so.

Other volunteers? Also volunteers for converting this into a sound file?

Sridhar
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Sridhar » 06 Feb 2004 23:24

Rye, it is David Albright not Madeleine.

Rangudu
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Rangudu » 06 Feb 2004 23:26

I have the audio file. It's 87 MB.

Sridhar
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Sridhar » 06 Feb 2004 23:30

Great. Can somebody who has web space put up this 87MB file temporarily? I am not sure if BR would be able to host it temporarily. But it would be great if it could. That way, those doing the transcription can download it and then the file can be removed from the website.

Sridhar
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby Sridhar » 06 Feb 2004 23:33

Before starting the transcription, it would be worthwhile checking if somebody has already done this task (Dung/Dawn etc. - sometimes even Outlook does this).

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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 04 Feb 2004

Postby NRao » 06 Feb 2004 23:41

From teh Atime article:

India is finding it difficult to understand how the US can accept and even encourage Pakistani attempts to blame its proliferation entirely on its scientists, and absolve the military of all blame. New Delhi is also wondering what message this attitude is sending to future proliferators
It is high time India learnt to just do her part. No use barking, Uncle is deaf. Uncle reacts only when nephew is about to threaten Uncle HIMSELF. That is teh bad news. The good news is that the Paki Army is on their way to self destruct. With a nominal brain it will not be too long before they do something else to threaten Uncle. How do we accelerate that process is the question.


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