Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

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Rangudu
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Rangudu »

Selig Harrison at his usual best.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/02/09/pakistans_nuclear_loopholes/
Pakistan's nuclear loopholes

By Selig S. Harrison, 2/9/2004

DESPITE MULTIPLYING evidence that Iran, North Korea, and Libya have obtained their key nuclear technology from Pakistan, the United States continues to coddle General Pervez Musharraf, accepting his assurances that nuclear transfers occurred long before he took power and were perpetrated only by "corrupt individuals" in the nuclear program -- not by generals or political leaders. In a carefully stage-managed scenario, the father of the Pakistani nuclear program, Dr. A.Q. Khan, publicly confessed to amassing millions through illicit foreign nuclear sales and appealed for clemency. Musharraf promptly pardoned him to avoid a trial that might implicate leading military figures, including Musharraf himself. But even the sternest punishment of Khan and his cronies would only be the first step in a meaningful Pakistani effort to reassure the world that future nuclear transfers will not occur.

Islamabad has enough enriched uranium stockpiled for 52 more nuclear weapons in addition to the 48 it already deploys. To find out whether nuclear transfers have really stopped under Musharraf and whether adequate safeguards are in place to prevent the leakage of nuclear materials to terrorist groups, the United States should insist on three steps by Pakistan as a precondition for the $3 billion in new military and economic aid promised by President Bush last June.

The most urgent would be the installation of new protective measures in Pakistani nuclear laboratories, supervised by US scientists. Second, Pakistan would have to permit regular inspection access by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Finally, radically strengthened Pakistani export controls would be essential to restore Islamabad's nonproliferation bonafides.

A recent study by the University of Georgia shows that Pakistani export control machinery is riddled with loopholes that would make it easy for Al Qaeda sympathizers to smuggle out nuclear components and know-how.

The study emphasizes the need to reverse export control regulations, promulgated after Musharraf took over, that exempt the armed forces and Defense Ministry agencies from its scope. Since "nuclear weapons and missiles are directly controlled by the armed forces," the study declares, "unless these exemptions are clarified or withdrawn, unlicensed exports by defense agencies would legally not be violations of domestic export control laws." This glaring loophole would have enabled the A.Q. Khan Research Laboratories to continue providing nuclear technology to Iran and Libya during Musharraf's tenure in addition to the earlier transfers documented in October by the IAEA. It could also explain how Khan managed to make his latest suspected nuclear transfer to North Korea less than two years ago in payment for missiles.


According to the CIA, Pakistan used US-supplied C-130 transport planes to ship Nodong missiles from Pyongyang in July, 2002. This provoked the imposition of US trade sanctions against the Khan Laboratories and a North Korean company in March, 2003. But the State Department stressed that the sanctions related solely to missiles and did not reflect a formal US finding that North Korea had exported nuclear technology to Pyongyang.

The administration fears that a showdown with Musharraf over Pakistan's relations with North Korea might jeopardize his help in combating Al Qaeda. But there is little doubt that North Korea did get its uranium enrichment technology from Pakistan. When the administration accused Pyongyang of violating its 1994 nuclear freeze pledge by conducting the uranium program, it leaked two internal reports documenting the Islamabad-Pyongyang connection.

A transfer of North Korean missiles to Pakistan as late as 2002 raises the question of how Pakistan is paying for them. If Islamabad did not pay with nuclear technology, did it divert some of the aid money given by the United States since 9/11 to buy missiles from the North Koreans?

In the internal administration debate over how to handle Musharraf, the argument against a get-tough posture on the nuclear issue is not only that it would jeopardize his cooperation against Al Qaeda, but also that it could lead to his ouster by a more nationalistic general sympathetic to Al Qaeda. But these arguments ignore the fact that the unpopular military regime needs US economic and military aid for its survival. Moreover, Musharraf's principal potential challenger, General Mohammed Aziz, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is a hardline nationalist from Kashmir, not an Islamic fanatic. Aziz might take a tougher line with India than Musharraf, but would be ready, like Musharraf, to cooperate on nuclear controls if this is the price for US aid.

In return for nuclear inspections, the United States should be prepared to offer Pakistan compelling new incentives, including access to the US textile market, which the White House promised when Musharraf signed on as a US ally after 9/11.

Stepped-up textile exports to the huge US market would be an economic bonanza for Pakistan. President Bush has been reluctant to confront US protectionist interests opposed to letting in Pakistani imports, but he should be willing to spend some of his political capital on this issue. Stopping the proliferation of nuclear technology and the leakage of nuclear materials is a paramount US interest, no less important than combating Al Qaeda.

Selig S. Harrison is director of the Asia Program at the Center for International Policy in Washington.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by jrjrao »

LA Times editorial today:

Pakistan Owes U.S. Answers
Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf loaded his country's nuclear proliferation sins onto the shoulders of the nation's premier nuclear scientist, Abdul Qadeer Khan, last week and then pardoned Khan, who is revered as a national hero.

That was a sharp contrast with Musharraf's promise in December to punish "enemies of the state" who passed on nuclear secrets.

...if Washington is publicly silent, it should be privately thundering for answers. Khan should be made to produce a list of the companies that provided him with metals for centrifuges and other technology and the names of those to whom he gave nuclear blueprints and essential machinery to make weapons.

...Musharraf has to live up to his pledge to stop the nuclear leakage if he wants Pakistan to be seen, in the long run, as more than just another rogue nation.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Tim »

University of Georgia - could be Seema Gahlaut, Gary Bertsch, and/or Anupam Srivastava. Seema and Anupam are familiar to BRM readers.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by suryavir »

Sunil,

"Pakistan's sale of nuclear weapons technology has nothing to do with India. The Pakistanis may have acquired nuclear weapons tech. after 1971 with India in mind, but the business like attitude with which they went about hawking the nukes tells me that the Indo-centric focus of Pakistani efforts quickly ebbed away."

I agree completely with the above. That the US has continually blundered with Pakistan since almost 1947 is a given. That it continues to blunder even today is most regrettable and dangerous both for itself and India.

"And all this while the Pakistani drones in the Non Proliferation community are mouthing off stuff like " It was profit that drove this, and not Islamist fervor." etc..."

Perkovich's above statement is preposterous to say the least. There is no question that there are some influential Americans who are plain ignorant or who have views that are inimical of India.

"The US-Pakistan equilibrium has shifted and the US is being sucked totally into a slavery to Pakistan's national interest."

I agree with that assessment too. Many Americans feel smug that with the dollars they are showering on Pakistan, they are making Musharraf dance to the American tune; the reality is otherwise, it is Musharraf that has been able to make the US dance to his tunes. As I have said in other posts, the US has no chance of winning against Pakistan if it relies on chicanery, deceit and deception - these are the Pakistani forte and Americans don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of outwitting the Pakis in this game. It is far better for the US to play to its strength: clarity of purpose, resolve, and the open willingness to use force to change Pakistani behavior.

"(F)rom now on it will be difficult to view them as distinct entities."

This is the part I do not agree with.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Rudra »

wonders never cease: a 10lb chimp with half a stick of dynamite making a 8000lb gorilla do the dance!

all we need is myself and jumrao to play the tabla
and harmonium and the Mujra would be complete.

Nach mayuri Nach!
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Sunil »

Suryavir,

Like I said I can understand why you feel this way but Americans (including Indian Americans) need to see that not taking a very strong and visible posture on Pakistan's sale of nuclear technology to NPT signatory states is an invitation to a terroristic nuclear attack. The lack of a visible and meaninful punishment for this sort of behavior in effect tells the people who did it that they can get away with it.

This permissive attitude in Washington is going to bring tremendous grief to us all. The appearance being given is that Washington is willing to trade off holding Pakistan responsible for sale of nuclear material if Pakistan agrees to hand over Osama Bin Laden. Little thought appears to be focussing on the apparent consequences of making such a trade.

The threat of an American invasion of NWFP simply does not scare the Pakistanis. Look at Musharraf's interview, he has already told the American media that they will find nothing in the NWFP and that their `spring offensive' will have no success there, they may be able to generate a video of some US medical officer shaving Osama Bin Laden, but that is all. Al Qaida attacks will continue and so will the destablization of the Karzai regime.

Musharraf has more or less told the USG there that they will be wasting their time if they invade Pakistan. Given how much trouble the Americans are having living in a country of `friendly Afghans', and `grateful Iraqis', imagine how much joy they are going to have in not-so-friendly Peshawar and hopelessly hostile Waziristan.

I feel the USG understands this message, and consequently it is impossible to imagine a US interest that lies outside the boundaries defined for it by Pakistan's (Musharraf's) interests.

Yes every mule kicks out when you try to make it go places it doesn't want to, but then eventually it comes around to your point of view. This imo is the Pakistani pov.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Umrao »

Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
wonders never cease: a 10lb chimp with half a stick of dynamite making a 8000lb gorilla do the dance!

all we need is myself and jumrao to play the tabla
and harmonium and the Mujra would be complete.

Nach mayuri Nach!
Guruji>>
A better song for this occassion would

"Naach meri jan katafat" song of Kishore & Asha (Mai sundar hoon,[Movie circa 1971] aakhir umrao Jaan to hai na ji :D
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by kgoan »

Tim, thanks.

But there are two issues that don't seem to be clear.

Specifically, give the Chinese help, It may certainly be true that they may have warheads designed to fit the Chinese missiles. But: what about the N Korean ones?

They would need to change the physical charateristics of the warhead. The geometry would be different implying modifications in things like the shape of the charge, the timing mechanism, Precision re-machining of crucial parts etc.

This is a highly non-trivial change to the warhead design. Maybe not for P-5 nations, but Pakistan? Yes, as Calvin says, aking nukes is not as hard as people thing (although the engineering is no trivial matter either).

Now the thing is: *if* the N Korean nukes are based on Pak designs, then clearly the N Koreans could *not* make changes for the Paks - the nukes are Paks after all. It's hardly credible to claim the N Koreans who needed Pak help in the nuke making business could change the design for the Paks.

Certainly, the two sides would co-operate, but it would be a standard joint research endeavour, not the tech-transfer and heres-how-its-done show the chinese could do.

Therefore, the question remains wether the Paks have tested warhead designs that they could be confident would work with the N Korean delivery systems.

If so, and given the timelines here, did the Chinese help them? If they did, then it goes to the "Pak-as-Chinese-catspaw" scenario. If they did not, and Pakistan did expend the time and money to ensure they had warheads to fit, then the question is, given their limited resources and *supposed* India fixation, what did they need the long range delivery mechanism for?

Simple competition between PAEC and KRL maybe the answer but; is that really tenable given the nature and *range* of Pak proliferation? I think there are apects of the Pak nuke doctrine that simply don't fit.

Khans statement of creating other Islamic nuke states to take the pressure of Pak is redolent of the Chinese strategy. And given the nature of N Korean missile sales *and* the regimes they sell to, what would be the result if Pakistan had a *successful* process to fit nuke warheads onto these missiles which could, depending on what country we're talking about, target European cities?

I think the nature of the response to 9-11 could have been *significantly* different had the paks had that type of capability and could deliver it to potential US targets.

Clearly, they *intended* to help anti-US nations. But they did not. Ergo, it's reasonable to come to the conclusion that they did *not* have the capability and therefore do *not* have a warhead to fit the N Korean missiles. Or, in my view, the ability to *independently* design warheads to fit the Chinese missiles either.

If they did, I think both the response to 9-11 and the world would be different today.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Umrao »

This is what China stole from Lost Almost labs.
<img src="http://lhe.physics.lsa.umich.edu/214/ot ... nuke.1.GIF" alt="" />

Read this to understand what was happening.
**********
September 7, 1999

SPECIAL REPORT
Spies Versus Sweat: The Debate Over China's Nuclear Advance

By WILLIAM J. BROAD
When American bomb makers began visiting China in 1979, they were startled by increasingly pointed questions that suggested their Chinese peers were hot on the trail of the secret to building a modern nuclear arsenal. It allows H-bombs to be made so small that many can fit atop a single missile or be fired from trucks, submarines and other mobile platforms.

China succeeded on Sept. 25, 1992, the news coming from a spy who told his American handlers that Beijing had exploded a bomb based on the miniaturization secret.

ESPIONAGE IN LOS ALAMOS
Recent Coverage

Official Who Led Inquiry Into China's Reputed Theft of Nuclear Secrets Quits (Aug. 24)
Official Denies Spy Suspect Was Victim of Bias (Aug. 19)
Official Asserts Spy Case Suspect Was a Bias Victim (Aug. 18)
Nuclear Lab Should Punish 3 Colleagues, Official Says (Aug. 13)
Security of Los Alamos Data Could Delay Trial U.S. Says (Aug. 7)
Suspect in Atom Secrets Case Publicly Denies Aiding China (Aug. 2)
In China, Physicist Learns, He Tripped Between Useful Exchange and Security Breach (Aug. 1)
News Analysis: Is China Waving a Bomb at Taiwan? (July 16)
China Proclaims It Designed Its Own Neutron Bomb (July 15)
U.S. Is Said to Have Known of China Spy Link in 1995 (June 27)
Suspect in Loss of Nuclear Secrets Unlikely to Face Spying Charges (June 15)
Report Scolds Bureaucracy for U.S. Nuclear Lab Lapses (June 15)
On Unofficial Level, at Least, Chinese Value Ties to the U.S. (May 27)
China Is Installing a Warhead Said to Be Based on U.S. Secrets (May 14)
Lawyer Issues Denial for Los Alamos Scientist Suspected of Spying for Beijing (May 8)
1998 Report Told of Lab Breaches and China Threat (May 2)
Unsecure Codes Are Recipes for A-Bombs, Experts Say (Apr. 29)
Intelligence Report Points to Second China Nuclear Leak (April 8)
Suspect Scientist Led Key Los Alamos Program (March 24)
Nuclear Lapses Known in '96, Aides Now Say (March 17)
China Stole Nuclear Secrets From Los Alamos, U.S. Officials Say (March 6)
A team of scientists at the Los Alamos weapons laboratory in New Mexico set to work on a whodunit with huge implications: Was China's advance the result of espionage, hard work or some mix of the two?

Today, the debate rages on. Experts agree that spying occurred, but clash violently on how much was stolen and what impact it had on Beijing's advance, if any.

The Los Alamos team concluded in 1995 that China's stride was probably based on espionage. A report this year by a Congressional committee that made the case public went further, claiming that it would have been "virtually impossible" for China to have made small warheads "without the nuclear secrets stolen from the United States."

The Congressional report unleashed criticism from scientists inside and outside the Government who said the importance of the espionage was overstated, and that China could well have achieved the breakthrough on its own, as it insists publicly.

A review of the dispute, based on months of interviews and disclosures of weapons and intelligence secrets, suggests that the Congressional report went beyond the evidence in asserting that stolen secrets were the main reason for China's breakthrough.

The review also bolsters a point of emerging agreement among feuding experts: that the Federal investigation focused too soon on the Los Alamos National Laboratory and one worker there, Wen Ho Lee, who was fired for security violations. The lost secrets, it now appears, were available to hundreds and perhaps thousands of individuals scattered throughout the nation's arms complex.

Federal officials asked in recent days that some details about weapons design and intelligence sources not be published, and The New York Times agreed to withhold them.

For the Los Alamos team of detectives, the overall spy theory was supported strongly in 1995 when the Central Intelligence Agency obtained an internal Chinese document that included a description of the United States' most advanced miniature warhead, the W-88. Revealing for the first time their top evidence in the case, the document's secret contents, Federal officials say the Chinese text cited five key attributes of the warhead, including two measurements accurate to within four-hundredths of an inch.

But the critics, who are also revealing new information, insist that Beijing, even if it spied, made the miniaturization breakthrough on its own, pursuing it for at least 13 years, from 1979 to 1992.

The prowess of Chinese scientists, American experts said, is suggested by a camera they built for photographing nuclear blasts, which was far better than a similar one made by the United States.

"They don't need any help from us," said Harold Agnew, a past Los Alamos director, visitor to China and Federal intelligence adviser. "They're just curious, as we are curious about them."

Some secret specifications of the W-88, an American miniature hydrogen bomb, that were found in a Chinese document.

The New York Times;
Illustration by Mika Grondahl
Deconstructing the damage wrought by espionage is an imprecise art that mixes inference, evidence and deduction. In the vacuum between what is known and what is suspected, personal, partisan or institutional bias often rushes in.

The debate over Chinese spying has been blurred by issues that include Republican distaste for President Clinton's China policy, accusations of racial bias in the investigation and fears among scientists that the uproar is prompting security measures so tight as to damage work, morale and recruitment.

As in most spy cases, the evidence is open to interpretation.

Several critics familiar with the Chinese document obtained by the C.I.A. said that its description of the American warhead was not by itself sufficient to build a miniaturized warhead.

The Energy Department official who supervised the Los Alamos inquiry, Notra Trulock, agreed with this assessment but said the information was secret and had never been mentioned in any public document or Internet posting. Anyone who had it, he and his team reasoned, must have also obtained access to a much broader range of secrets about the warhead's design.

In addition, Trulock said in an interview, knowing the approximate size and shape of the components provided a road map to Chinese bomb makers, probably allowing them to skip years of preliminary testing.

Trulock added, however, that the Congressional committee was too categorical in its report, which was based in part on his testimony.

"When I testified, I used the appropriate caveats to express uncertainties in our evidence and our conclusions," said Trulock, formerly the Energy Department's intelligence chief. "We typically said: 'Probably this. Probably that.' " The committee, he said, "made judgments" about the centrality of spying in China's breakthrough.

Representative Christopher Cox, a California Republican who was chairman of the committee, defended the work of his staff of 47, which included no one with nuclear design experience. The panel, he said in a lengthy interview, drew largely on Clinton Administration witnesses for its expertise. The conclusion that espionage allowed Beijing to skip decades of research, he said, was an appropriate one, based on the Government's own evidence.

"Judgment matters," he said, responding to Trulock's criticism. "We don't know everything to a certainty. The question is what is more likely than not."

In the interview, Cox expressed surprise when told of the depth and breadth of China's interest in the miniaturization secret. He also played down the idea, cited by Federal skeptics of Chinese spying, that most of the world's nuclear powers have figured out the secret of miniaturization.

Can China, Cox asked, "develop it indigenously because France did? That is a stretch. It's almost apples and oranges."

The Secret: America Shrinks an Atomic Match

From the dawn of the nuclear age, miniaturization has been an obsession of weapons designers.

The world's first atomic bomb, designed by the Los Alamos laboratory and detonated in the New Mexico desert in July 1945, was an awesome but cumbersome affair. A lump of plutonium the size of a softball was surrounded by a much larger ball of high explosives that was five feet wide and made up of 32 explosive charges and 64 detonators. Big as a car, it could not have fit into a small airplane, let alone a missile.

In 1952, American physicists made an important breakthrough: the H-bomb. Roughly a thousand times more powerful than the first atomic weapon, the hydrogen bomb was a two-stage device. Inside its dense casing, an atomic explosion -- called the primary -- worked as a match to kindle an even more powerful detonation by the bomb's hydrogen fuel, which was known as the secondary.

Size was an issue from the start. The first H-bomb stood two stories high and weighed 82 tons. It would be militarily useful only if it could be shrunk, and over the next few years, the country's best physicists set out to do just that.

After considerable trial and error, they figured out that they could obtain the same kind of explosive power from a smaller package. A main breakthrough centered on the large, heavy atomic match. By shaping its plutonium fuel into an ovoid, roughly like a watermelon, scientists were able to drastically shrink the size and number of the explosives that triggered the nuclear blast.

After at least one flop, the radical idea roared to life in July 1957 in a nuclear explosion in the Nevada desert, according to Chuck Hansen, author of a detailed history of America's early nuclear efforts. It had taken the United States a little more than five years to move from the first H-bomb to its miniaturized cousin.

The development had profound implications for the cold war's nuclear competition.

Shrinking the atomic trigger from something roughly the size of a washing machine to something smaller than a football allowed weapons designers to put thermonuclear arms atop small missiles that could be launched from submarines or mobile platforms like trucks. Arms would no longer be confined to bombers or silos in the ground.

The advance meant weapons could now be carried, quite stealthily, closer to enemy shores and could be made safer from attack. It also meant warheads could fit into the cramped spaces of narrow nose cones, which streaked faster to Earth than blunter shapes and were less buffeted by winds during the fiery plunge, making them more accurate.

The first warhead in the new generation of weapons, the W-47, was less than half the size of the bomb that leveled Hiroshima but up to 80 times more powerful. In 1960, when the first Polaris submarine put to sea, each of its 16 missiles was armed with a W-47.

The weapons continued to evolve, and by all accounts, the apex was reached in the 1980's with the W-88, one of the most deadly weapons in the American arsenal.

The warhead, made for submarines, first went to sea a decade ago and is considered quite powerful for its small size. The precise size is secret. But at least eight W-88's can fit atop the Trident D-5 missile, which is less than seven feet wide.

Since Trident subs have 24 missiles, a single submarine can carry up to 192 of the thermonuclear arms.

Today, American submarines on patrol in the Atlantic carry the small warheads. And the Navy is adding them to its Pacific fleet, so in the next few years the W-88 is likely to be aimed at China.

The Chinese: Late to Start, Quick to Excel

China was late in joining the nuclear club, but showed considerable skill when it did.

Beijing detonated its first bomb in 1964. The tricky design was based on uranium, like the Hiroshima bomb, but saved costly fuel and made the bomb lighter, increasing its military value.

Sidney D. Drell, a Stanford physicist and Clinton Administration adviser, writing in "China Builds the Bomb" (Stanford University Press, 1988), called the feat "enormously impressive." Beijing's first hydrogen bomb came just 32 months later.

By comparison, the step from nuclear to thermonuclear took London 66 months, Moscow 75 months, Washington 87 months and Paris 103 months, said Robert S. Norris of the Natural Resources Defense Council, a private group in Washington that monitors nuclear arms.

China set off just 6 test blasts to get to the H-bomb stage, versus 31 for the United States. The low number was typical. While developing at least six types of weapons, Beijing over the decades conducted relatively few nuclear tests, 45 in all, versus 1,030 for the United States.

The evidence strongly suggests that China, in its first phases of missile building, had no idea how to shrink thermonuclear arms. According to "China's Strategic Seapower" (Stanford University Press, 1994), the warhead for the submarine missile deployed by Beijing in the 1970's weighed 1,300 pounds, more than twice the old American W-47, suggesting that the Chinese were still using a spherical atomic match to ignite H-bombs.

China's land force was modest. Starting in the 1980's, it deployed about 20 missiles that can now reach anywhere in North America, each topped by a single warhead that can unleash a force equivalent to up to five million tons of high explosives. That is about 300 times stronger than the Hiroshima bomb.

The big warheads are not particularly accurate, but they fit China's professed war doctrine -- to fire nuclear arms only in retaliation. The big missiles can, if necessary, hit a city.

China's interest in building smaller weapons was spurred, in part, by the United States' development in the late 1970's of a high-accuracy design known as the Missile Experimental, or MX, that bristled with 10 warheads. Though meant primarily to unnerve Moscow, the weapon also worried Beijing, which quickly grasped that its handful of big land-based missiles looked like sitting ducks that could be destroyed in a first strike of precisely aimed H-bombs.

Beijing's unease grew as the American Navy in the late 1970's unveiled plans for a new submarine-launched missile nearly as unerring as the MX and bearing an even more powerful warhead -- the W-88.

American intelligence agencies knew little about China's nuclear program and modernization plans, if any, before President Richard Nixon's visit to China in 1972. But the military ties that followed the Nixon diplomatic initiative opened the door.

By 1979, American nuclear arms designers and security experts were starting to visit their Chinese peers, weapons labs and Lop Nur, the sprawling site in China's western desert where prototype nuclear weapons were detonated.

From Los Alamos alone, at least 85 scientists and officials made trips from 1979 to 1990, according to Robert S. Vrooman, a former C.I.A. officer who at the time directed counterintelligence at Los Alamos.

Top visitors included Dr. Agnew, the past director of the weapons lab; Danny B. Stillman, its head of intelligence; and George A. Keyworth 2d, a physicist who later became President Reagan's science adviser.

The benefits were judged to far outweigh the risks that arms scientists in informal settings and conversations might, by accident or design, give away secrets. And indeed, the Americans learned much.

"This was a huge intelligence game for the United States," said a United States official who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "At the beginning we knew zip about China."

One discovery was that parts of the Chinese program were quite advanced, including technologies for bomb development.

"They have excellent facilities, some better than ours," said Dr. Agnew, who in 1979 and 1982 was among the first visitors.

For instance, he said, the Chinese were able to peer into fiery blasts with an advanced camera known as pinex, revealing details to aid warhead development.

The American version of the device had one axis, he said, the Chinese version two, doubling its usefulness. "It's much better," Dr. Agnew said.

The American visitors also learned much about what China lacked. From a barrage of inquiries over the years, it became clear that Beijing was eager to learn everything it could about shrinking the atomic trigger. The questions were regular, increasingly pointed and never answered, American officials said, insisting that Beijing got no secrets that way.

But in one case, investigators became suspicious about an American scientist at the Livermore weapons lab in California who in 1979 had talked with Chinese scientists.

The suspect, born in Taiwan, never confessed. But some Federal investigators, in an investigation code-named Tiger Trap, feared the scientist had compromised not only the design of the W-70, a neutron bomb, but the secret to making small atomic triggers.

Weapons experts say that the crucial insight of the watermelon shape can be communicated with a few comments, a hand motion or a simple drawing on the back of an envelope, although years of computing, calculation, experiment and factory labor are then needed to turn the idea into nuclear blasts.

"The real challenge is not in the design, it's in the manufacturing," said Houston T. Hawkins, head of international security studies at Los Alamos.

For example, he said, plutonium, one of the most complex metals known to science, is difficult to cast because of its odd ways of reacting with other metals and materials.

"It's a strange beast," Hawkins said of the dense metal that fuels most atom bombs.
****************************************
The Irony of all this is

1) PRC gets positive role and positive image inspite of openly thumbing the nose at unkil, in proliferation matters.

2) TSP gets the role of front line allie which openly proliferates to N Korea and other known rogue nations.

3) N. Korea flexes its muscle at unkil with Paki nad Chinese nooks, while unkil appoints PRC to be strategic partner.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by jrjrao »

Washington Times editorial.

Pakistan's nuclear polemic
Pakistan's nuclear mastermind Abdul Qadeer Khan delivered his scripted mea culpa last week for exporting nuclear know-how, amid crocodile sighs. The unclimactic next act, a presidential pardon, was widely anticipated in the media and interpreted as a quid pro quo. Mr. Khan assured the global public that the Pakistani government didn't know about or condone the scientist's proliferation, and in return President Pervez Musharraf got Mr. Khan off the hook legally. But the great Mr. Khan is moribund. <u>His very public capitulation, in what author Ahmed Akbar describes as Pakistan's honor culture, has debased him.</u> The global audience, meanwhile, is horrified by his reckless endangerment of the international community.

The question then remains: What is the damage to Pakistan in general and Gen. Musharraf specifically? Mr. Khan's admission represents an attempt by Gen. Musharraf to give some sort of airing of Pakistan's proliferation wrongs, which have become very clear in the wake of recent revelations by Libya and Iran. But most serious observers recognize the admission as more whitewash than sunlight. <u>Mr. Khan's contention that no military or government officials were aware, for example, of the weapons of mass destruction links between Pakistan and North Korea is not credible.</u>

...if U.S. officials are calculating that turning a blind eye towards proliferation will produce a tied and shackled Osama bin Laden, compliments of Pakistan, they are probably mistaken. As Pakistani experts maintain, Islamabad fears that given the history of U.S.-Pakistani relations, producing bin Laden would lead to an incremental end to the U.S. courtship. While a bin Laden capture can't be ruled out, such a move (if tactically feasible for Pakistan) would probably be poorly timed in Islamabad.

Washington should not therefore soft-peddle its concern over nuclear proliferation, but should blunt the impact of its measures by directing all actions through international organizations. Mr. Khan's professed contrition doesn't put to rest proliferation issues. Gen. Musharraf will have many questions to answer in the next few months, in Pakistan and beyond.
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20040208-102851-1717r.htm
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Tim »

kgoan,

Great points, for which I have no answers. A couple of things do spring to mind, though.

>>>Specifically, give the Chinese help, It may certainly be true that they may have warheads designed to fit the Chinese missiles. But: what about the N Korean ones?

They would need to change the physical charateristics of the warhead. The geometry would be different implying modifications in things like the shape of the charge, the timing mechanism, Precision re-machining of crucial parts etc.

This is a highly non-trivial change to the warhead design. Maybe not for P-5 nations, but Pakistan?
>>>>

I agree, and don't know the technical aspects well enough to really have any good answers. There have been persistent reports from the US (again, reading between the lines of official reports) that suggest the Pakistanis have some technological expertise - but I don't know how far that goes in the warhead field.

>>>>>Now the thing is: *if* the N Korean nukes are based on Pak designs, then clearly the N Koreans could *not* do these changes for the Paks. Certainly, the two sides would co-operate, but it would be a standard joint research endeavour, not the tech-transfer and show-how-its-done show the chinese could do.
>>>>>

However - it's not evident to me that N Korean nukes are based on Pakistani designs. The primary DPRK program is Pu based, and was shut down (in theory, by the Agreed Framework) several years before the Pakistani plant started running. It seems to me just as likely that DPRK has an indigenous design or even a different Chinese design.

>>>>>Therefore, the question remains wether the Paks have tested warhead designs that they could be confident would work with the N Korean delivery systems.
>>>>>>

Which raises a possibility - could the Pu at Chagai have been from North Korea? I doubt it - I think that would have gotten some kind of press leak, because it would have driven Washington absolutely crazy.

I'm not sure what they have. But the fact that they moved the Ghauris out of Kahuta on May 27th due to the Israeli scare may indicate something. I wouldn't want to read too much into it, since they'd probably want to move the missiles anyway, but it may suggest something about warhead availability. The Riedel report doesn't specify which missiles had warheads - and no other source has confirmed it, which casts some doubt on its credibility.

>>>>>If so, and given the timelines here, did the Chinese help them? If they did, then it goes to the "Paks-acting-on-Chinese" behalf scenario. If they did not, and Pakistan did expend the time and money to ensure they had warheads to fit, then the question is, what did they need the long range delivery mechanism for?

Simple competition between PAEC and KRL maybe the answer, but is that really tenable given the nature and *range* of Pak proliferation? I think there are apects of the Pak nuke doctrine that simply don't fit.
>>>>>>>>>>

Can't disagree with that last statement :-)

>>>>>>>>Khans statement of creating other Islamic nuke states to take the pressure of Pak is redolent of the Chinese strategy. And given the nature of N Korean missile sales and to the regimes they sell to, what would be the result if Pakistan had a *successful* process to fit nuke warheads onto these missiles which could, depending on what country we're talking about, target European cities?
>>>>>>>>>

Which, given proliferation to Libya (a very short shot - they hit Italian soil with an unmodified SCUD in 1986), is a pretty scary question that no one seems to want to answer.

I doubt they'll tell us whether the Libyan warhead would work on a SCUD - I'd think that would be pretty seriously classified. But watch the leaks carefully.

>>>>>>>>>I think the nature of the response to 9-11 could have been *significantly* different had the paks had that type of capability and could deliver it to potential US targets.

Clearly, they *intended* to help anti-US nations. But they did not. Ergo, it's reasonable to come to the conclusion that they did *not* have the capability and therefore do *not* have a warhead to fit the N Korean missiles. Or, in my view, the ability to *independently* design warheads to fit the Chinese missiles either.
>>>>>>>>

I'm not quite sure I get that one. They certainly intended to help anti-US nations. But until we more about the Libyan warhead design, for example, or about North Korea - or even what they offered to Iraq - you might be able to make the argument that they were either selling pieces of the puzzle one at a time (profit-maximization) or that they actually WERE giving away the whole store (if the warhead works on a SCUD/No Dong).

I feel like I need more data. :-)

>>>>>>>If they did, I think the world would be different today.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by suryavir »

Sunil, fwiw, I agree with your last post completely. The Bush Administration is treating the nuclear proliferation issue as being distinct from the terrorism problem, and is willing to trade one for the other. This is a fallacy. Both are the fruits of the same poisoned tree: Pakistan. Neither proliferation nor terrorism can be handled in isolation. Sooner or later, the US will have to drop this misguided hope that it can change Pakistan using the velvet touch, lined with billions of dollars in gratis payment to Pakistan. The Pakistanis are going to milk Uncle all the way, and laugh all the way to the bank. And they will continue to play dangerous games on both the terrorism and proliferation fronts - that is the Paki character and proven history. Unkil is deluding himself that this cancer will be cured by pampering it.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Y I Patel »

If the mujrewaali offered these services for two bit majnus, one has to wonder what favors she did for the real qadardaans. And with her being in such fine singing form in bhari mehfil, everyone has to wonder what raag she is singing in the mujra!

To switch metaphors to the rude argot of non-proliferation, this is bound to place the qadardans in a use it or lose it situation.

Now figure in that quayamat ki raat is fast approaching in DC. The the old qadardaans know it, the new maherbaans know it, the qadardaans know that the maherbaans know, the maherbaans know the qadardaans know, and the mujrewaali will be singing and dancing like never before.

So what's the point? I don't know, but if I were Tom Ridge, I would be jacking the threat level up to red or scarlet or crimson or whatever, and keeping it there for the next year.

Jab raat hai aisi matwaali tab subah ka alam kya hoga, tab subah ka alam kya hoga!

See jumrao, you have kompeteshun!
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Umrao »

from the
Kgoan - Dr. Tim (samvada) aka correspondence in the above, I give my below comments.

1) True N Korean Nukes could be based on Pu but so was Pakistani Nukes that (were) exploded. Chinese gave the Pu balls (Machined) and the firing mechanism, after the first HEU device of Abdul Xerox Khan failed. Refer to the flutter caused by Germans and the detection of Pu by CIA plane but were later hosed down by SD wallahs and their Highly Paid :) SA pundits on pay roll.

2) Profit maximization is not the sole intent in selling such toys as Nooks , it is multivariate problem involving apart from money payments, the scope of evading any detection, the convenience of deniability,the trade off international reaction and the general infatuation of the Spin city at that time, such as utility o fthe proliferating nation to the Sd wallahs and advisor. (just to cite some examples).

3) The role PRC in this whole affair is very subtle like the love between the hero and the heroine in the movie 'Crouching Tiger Leaping Dragon' :) .

4) Pakis as a reliable and rational players have not scored high in the Bejing community, especially after India burried all their facade in POK II blasts. In addition the arrogance of TSP H&D has gone to their HEAD (Nature abhors vaccum :) ) and now we have complete picture about people who propose CTBT, NPT and strangely they are not very different from Jimmy Swaggart found in position of missionary zeal with a Madame.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by jrjrao »

Lo kar lo gull. TIME hires a Pakistani to write an op-ed. Guess what and which way he pleads....

Nuclear Reaction -
The proliferation scandal must not be allowed to derail Pakistan's progress
...We are—because of our history, our often hostile neighbors and our own mistakes—an insecure nation ...

We cannot risk the loss of our momentum for change, either by bringing to trial a man once considered a national hero and thereby alienating a large segment of our population, or by making public any role by elected politicians and army chiefs and thereby destabilizing our current leadership. We know that Pakistan has made grievous errors in the past. This is the moment to correct our errors quickly and to move on rather than to focus on assigning blame.

...we must stay the course in our pursuit of economic growth, peace and a more liberal Pakistan.
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501040216-588909,00.html
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Vivek_A »

Originally posted by Tim:
However - it's not evident to me that N Korean nukes are based on Pakistani designs. The primary DPRK program is Pu based, and was shut down (in theory, by the Agreed Framework) several years before the Pakistani plant started running. It seems to me just as likely that DPRK has an indigenous design or even a different Chinese design.
this was posted on the previous proliferation thread.

Defector: N. Korea Has Uranium Program
TOKYO - A top-ranking North Korean defector said the North launched a uranium-based nuclear weapons program in 1996 with the help of Pakistan, a Japanese newspaper reported Sunday.

Hwang Jang Yop, a former mentor to North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, told the Tokyo Shimbun in an interview that a top military official told him eight years ago about an agreement with Pakistan to develop an enriched uranium weapons program.
Either the defector lying to increase his own importance( not uncommon for defectors) or the North Koreans agreed to shut down the PU program because they already had a uranium program going on the side with Paki help.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Umrao »

Chiddu says

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/485699.cms
Please let it not be thought that the same proliferation activity will start again," Musharraf told NBC’ s Tom Brokaw in Islamabad. "Never. That will never happen."

Too late, according some reports and analysts. The Arabic newspaper Al Hayat reported Sunday that al-Qaeda was already in possession of small nuclear weapons, possibly bought from Ukrainian scientists in 1998.

Reports in the US too express fears that the horse may already have already bolted from the stable, and blames Pakistan for the frightening spectre.
Awe right time for Indiana Jones to go and bash up the Pakis.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Umrao »

read this and then think why the Pakis could not do with out PRC help.
**************
http://artsandscience.concordia.ca/poli419n/lectures/lecture04_txt.html
Two Principal Types of Fission Design:

_(1). Gun-Method of Fission Detonation: Consists of firing with conventional explosives at a high speed a smaller sub-critical component of uranium-235 at a larger super-critical bloc of uranium-235 to set-off fission.

_Plutonium does not work as well in a gun mechanism because there is too much plutonium concentrated and this could lead to spontaneous fission. Pu-239 is hard to acquire as pure because Pu-240 emerges quickly as a decayed isotope and emits neutrons that triggers the fission before super-criticality necessary for a detonation.

_It also requires high isotope purity of the uranium-235 to operate (90% optimal but can operate at 70% producing only 0.5 to 2.5 kt).

_This design does not require an external neutron source. Its simplicity and ruggedness permits it to be used for high stress weapons such as nuclear shells fired out of artillery (as opposed to missile-launched warheads).

_EG: Little Boy dropped by a B-29 bomber and detonated at 580 m altitude on Aug 6, 1945 at Hiroshima: 60 kg of U-235 created 12.5 kiloton yield.



_(2). Implosion Method of Fission Detonation: (1). 20-50 parabolically-shaped conventional explosive lenses with a pressure of millions of lbs per square inch squeezes U-235 and/or Pu-239 segments into a single mass with 10 to 25 times normal density increasing the chances a neutron hitting a nucleus. (2). A neutron projector then injects the neutrons into the super-compressed uranium/plutonium to trigger the detonation. (3). There is usually a beryllium or U-238 reflector.

_Implosion devices require precise engineering, esp. of the timing and shape of the implosion and the timing of the neutron initiator.

_EG: The Gadget of the Trinity test was detonated on July 16, 1945 near Alamagordo, New Mexico, and consisted of 2,268 kg of conventional explosives compressing 6.1 kg of Pu-239 to produce a 21 kiloton yield. World’s first manufactured nuclear explosion.

_EG: Fat Man dropped by a B-29 bomber and detonated at 500 m altitude on Aug 9, 1945 at Nagasaki: 6.2 kg of Pu-239 created 22 kiloton yield.



(2). Atomic Fusion:

_Water-bottle gimmick.

_Atomic fusion weapons (aka thermonuclear or fission boosted fusion devices) use the energy generated by a fission detonation (described above) to fuse together the nuclei of tritium (H-3) and deuterium (H-2) (isotopes of hydrogen). 3 stages:

_(1). First Stage: fission reaction to generate energy.

_(2). Second Stage: A mixture of deuterium and tritium are fused by the fission reaction, releasing enormous energy. Deuterium-tritium mixtures require complicated cryogenic freezing to keep them in a solid state.

_This requires a minimum of 10-to-100 million degrees Celcius (billion degrees best) produced by the fission detonation because neutrons are easily repelled by light nuclei like hydrogen. The energy required is proportional to the number of neutrons in the nucleus, so less energy is required with light elements like hydrogen.

_Alternately, lithium-6 is mixed with deuterium to create a solid compound (so no cryogenic storage is required). The energy from the fission detonation converts the lithium-6 into tritium.

****************
The Pakis tried U device failed and then got the chinese to give them the Pu which worked.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Sunil »

Suryavir,

> It is a mistake to see nuclear proliferation and terrorism as distinct objects. Terrorism and Nuclear Proliferation are poisoned fruit of the same poisonous tree - Pakistan.

That is actually a very succinct way of putting it. I think this turn of phrase should be used more often.

The inability of most Americans to see this fact, coupled with the vast number of guys in the senior policy level that seem to love Pakistan for various reasons, makes it impossible for me to see the US and Pakistan as distinct entities.

In high school speak, the US and Pakistan are an `item'.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Umrao »

Delhi dossier on Pak bomb daddy
DALIP SINGH

Abdul Qadeer Khan in a Reuters file picture.
New Delhi, Feb. 8: Not only the International Atomic Energy Agency and the Americans, but India too was quietly tracking Abdul Qadeer Khan, the so-called father of Pakistan’s nuclear bomb.

Indian agencies were doing so long before news about his involvement in selling nuclear expertise to Iran, North Korea and Libya broke.

The Indian dossier on Khan claims that the Pakistan-Iran nuclear link dates back to 1984. Gnadi Mohammad Mragh, the then director of Iran’s Isfahan-based Nuclear Technology Centre, visited Islamabad, seeking Khan’s assistance. Mragh was a nuclear scientist and specialised in reprocessing.

Since then their relationship grew, leading to a stage where not only was Pakistani nuclear expertise shared with Iran but Pakistani scientists started working in Iran.

The controversial Pakistani scientist’s assistance was sought by Iran to assess the damage caused to the 1300-mw Bushehr nuclear power plant by Iraqi bombings in 1986. Khan flew several times to Iran in 1986 for this purpose.

India has documentary evidence of Khan’s presence in Iran during the eighties and nineties, especially of the times he visited Iranian nuclear facilities in Tehran, Isfahan and Karaj.

Khan’s close interaction with North Korea, Indian intelligence reports claim, began in March 1994. He visited Pyongyang to hold discussions with the top brass of Changgwang Sinyong Corporation, a front company exporting weapons. Later, he visited North Korea five times, from October 1997 to June 2000, to discuss not only nuclear technology transfers, but also purchase of Nodong missiles and the possibility of acquiring Taepodong missiles.

Khan’s assertion that President Pervez Musharraf, former premier Benazir Bhutto and ex-army chiefs Mirza Aslam Beg and Jahangir Karamat were aware of the nuclear proliferation echoes in the secret reports available with the Indian government.

Although Beg and Karamat were questioned by the Pakistani establishment, they denied any involvement in Khan’s nuclear proliferation activities.

Indicating that the Pakistan government had all along been party to the nuclear proliferation, information with Indian officials shows that 37 Iranian nuclear scientists were trained in Pakistan in 1987. It followed an understanding reached between the head of the Atomic Energy Organisation of Iran and the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission chairman.

The official mechanism between the two countries for transferring nuclear technology was set up in 1991. The then Pakistan army chief went to Iran in November 1991 to secretly sign an agreement to create a joint military commission with a specific provision for transfer of uranium enrichment technology to Iran.

This took shape after an Iranian delegation, led by their former foreign minister and including the commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps and an army technical team, landed in Islamabad to formalise nuclear cooperation.

Indian officials claim that some Pakistani scientists were working at a nuclear research centre Iran was developing at Qazvin, about 150 km west of Tehran, in the late eighties and early nineties. Khan is said to have visited this centre to oversee the work.

The reports also say the Pakistani scientists working at this plant had faced some problems, which were sorted out after seeking Pakistani assistance. On February 26, 2003, another batch of Pakistani nuclear scientists and engineers reached Tehran to replace their countrymen already working there.

American officials were aware of Pakistan transferring centrifuge designs needed to enrich uranium to Iran as far back as 1992, the reports suggest.

Interestingly, the Iranian foreign minister was the only foreign dignitary who was taken to the site of Pakistan’s nuclear tests conducted in May 1998, a day after India did.

According to reports, Khan has confessed to Pakistani investigators that Beg was aware of the assistance provided to Iran’s nuclear programme. Two other army chiefs, in addition to Musharraf, had approved of his North Korean efforts, he is said to have told the interrogators.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1040209/asp/frontpage/story_2876557.asp
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Raj Singh »

John Umrao
"Naach meri jan katafat " song of Kishore & Asha (Mai sundar hoon,[Movie circa 1971] aakhir umrao Jaan to hai na ji
Sorry, difficult to take it for some of us, like that... :)

Naach meri jaan, fata-faat-fata..
baat meri maan, fata-faat-fata...........

:)
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Raj Singh »

YI Patel
So what's the point? I don't know, but if I were Tom Ridge, I would be jacking the threat level up to red or scarlet or crimson or whatever, and keeping it there for the next year.

Jab raat hai aisi matwaali tab subah ka alam kya hoga, tab subah ka alam kya hoga!
Carrying on with the theme..

Is rang mein koi jee lay agar
marne ka oosay gum kya hoga
jab raat hai aisee matwaali .....

:)
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Raj Singh »

Sunil S
The lack of a visible and meaninful punishment for this sort of behavior in effect tells the people who did it that they can get away with it.
Is it possible that seemingly lack of visible punishment may have something to do with the timing? Meaning, time is not right for US to show some punishment visibly? Or is it possible that just to show some sort of punishment in public may jeopardise other matter or more effective punishment, which may be taking place behind the scenes? After all, other party (be it jehadis or sympathisers of jehadis, and who may have access to some dirty weapon/s)is not that weak. Even it it is, it does have some H&D and playing with that can make it bring a feeling of nothing to lose. Is that possible?
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by suryavir »

In high school speak, the US and Pakistan are an `item'.
Sunil, this blind American obession with Pakistan - a form of Fatal Attraction - is indeed one of the great mysteries of our times. Is there any state that has received so much generosity and material support from the US and still continues to cause so much grief to the US, and the US still keeps pardoning it, time after time? I would like our resident historian Johann to dust up his books to see whether there is any historical parallel to this.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Raj Singh »

Suryavir
this blind American obession with Pakistan - a form of Fatal Attraction - is indeed one of the great mysteries of our times. Is there any state that has received so much generosity and material support from the US and still continues to caused so much grief to the US, and the US still keeps pardoning it, time after time?
Is that not really the perception mainly of Indians? Do Americans actually say or believe that it is Pakistan who has caused US so much grief?
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Umrao »

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20040209&fname=kpsgill&sid=1

"This naturally forces the disturbing questions: has America, or have American agencies, in fact, been complicit in at least some of these proliferation activities? And have successive US Administrations deliberately misled the American people? While the immediate and malevolent shadow of Pakistan's activities has fallen within the region, particularly on Afghanistan and India, it is the inescapable truth that the 'nuclear dagger' is aimed irrevocably at the heart of the world's 'sole superpower', and the leakage of these technologies to rogue states and terrorist non-state actors across the world constitutes the gravest threat to the US.

Peripheral players as well as recipients of the proliferating technologies have been targeted with the full force of punitive American and international sanctions, yet the primary proliferator and central protagonist in the sponsorship of international Islamist terrorism escapes unscathed, again and again, irrespective of the enormity of its transgressions. Every US Administration in the recent past has downplayed Pakistan's role in international terrorism and nuclear proliferation, and the present Administration is no exception.

America's 'strategy' for stabilizing Pakistan - indeed, South Asia - appears to be based on a single premise: unqualified support to Musharraf, with a combination of rewards and pressures to urge him to restore control over the jehadi elements in his country. This exclusive reliance on a single individual is substantially based on Musharraf's deceptive persona, his 'westernised' ease of attire and intercourse, and his apparent servility under US pressure. Apart from the dangers of operating without viable alternatives, such an approach is also based on a poor understanding of the man. Musharraf is, evidently, opportunist par excellence; his present perceptions tie him closely to the most immediate US interests. But the current 'global war' is a war of ideologies.

Musharraf's fundamental commitments, and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan itself, are founded on an ideology in irreducible conflict with that of America. To fail to recognize this is to imperil all freedoms everywhere. To fail, equally, to recognize, behind the veneer of westernisation, the sheer absence of scruples and the ruthlessness of Musharraf's character is to create the circumstances for inevitable betrayal"
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by suryavir »

Raj, despite the sugar-coated pronouncements that official Washington makes about Musharraf's support, there is no question now that most in the media and the security industry are very seriously worried about Pakistan. Pakistan is the world's number one problem is not just the view of ("biased") Indians anymore. The events of 911 and continuing todate with the revelations of Paki proliferation are finally revealing to the world what the Paks are all about, that this is not merely an hyperactive India imagination. Btw, there is much truth to what you said in your post to Sunil above.
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by ramana »

Thoda sooncho. Why this dance with the jackal?
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Rudra »

US rulers cant even admit they were wrong in Iraq.
you expect them to admit all the statecraft and
paycheques over 50 yrs is 300% wrong and useless?

that would mean the entire US strategic community
is stupid in the extreme wrt TSP -- no no cant admit that
or all faith of the citizenry would crumble...
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by suryavir »

US rulers cant even admit they were wrong in Iraq.
you expect them to admit all the statecraft and
paycheques over 50 yrs is 300% wrong and useless?
Rudra, the question is not one of offering a mea culpa to its citizens, but whether the US Administration can read the plain hand-writing on the wall that we can all see and readjust its policies in the face of these manifest dangers. KPS Gill's op-ed in Outlook is masterful in pointing out that the Pakistani "dagger is pointed straight to the heart of the sole superpower." How long can the US ignore it and how long can it continue to rely on Pakistan's naked prevarications and deceitfulness?
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Sridhar »

For info and participation by local BR members, if possible.
================================================
UC Berkeley Lecture Series:

“India and Pakistan: Prospects for Peace in the 21st Century”

Sponsored by the Center for South Asia Studies

February 18
“India, Pakistan, and Kashmir in the 21st Century”
Stephen P. Cohen, Brookings Institute

March 8
“Nuclear Dangers in South Asia”
George Perkovich, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

March 31
“Was the Kargil Conflict India and Pakistan’s Cuban Missile Crisis?”
Peter Lavoy, Center for Contemporary Conflict, Naval Postgraduate School


April 21
“Nuclear Stability in South Asia”
Brig. Gen. (ret.) Feroz Hassan Khan, Department of National Security Affairs, Naval Postgraduate School

All lectures to be held in 159 Mulford Hall, (UC Berkeley campus)

4:00 pm

Free and open to the public

For more information, contact CSAS at 510-642-3608 or csasasst@uclink.berkeley.edu
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by svinayak »

Musharraf - Gorbachev of Pakistan?

Many a column writers in Pakistan have warned that President Musharraf may
well turn out to be the Gorbachev of Pakistan. The opinion is so widely held
that it can no longer be ignored. General Musharraf is not different to Generals

Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan who were both 'liberal' in their attitude and thought
of the US as a 'friend' but found out too late what that friendship meant.
But the USA is different now. The Zionists are in complete control over that
country and it is the sole super power. The USA used to be reluctant to betray
friends; not any more. Zionists ruled America befriends only to betray. Every
country - not just Muslims - has to give primacy to US policies and interests
over its own, or face the fiscal and military might of the US.

Musharraf is hated in Pakistan; even called a traitor. He is actually a
person with more courage than Ayub Khan or Yahya Khan. He is more like Gorbachev

than any of his military predecessors. Gorbachev did not want the break up of
the Soviet Union; he only wanted 'glasnost'. When that allowed the Jews (all
agnostic, of course) to penetrate the inner sanctum of power in USSR, he did
nothing. With Jews in control of decision making, it was easy to bring a clown
like Yeltsin to power. It was Yeltsin who broke up the Union.

President Musharraf is a 'liberal' who has surrounded himself with Qadianis
and persons of dubious antecedents. Like Gorbachev he ends up compromising
whatever he sets out to defend. He betrayed the Taliban on the plea of national
interest:

(1) security of the Northern frontier of Pakistan,
(2) security of the nuclear deterrent,
(3) security of the our position on Jammu and Kashmir.

He continues to try hard but all his efforts always end up in failure.

(1) India is entrenched in Afghanistan and is friend of Iran and Pakistan is
effectively surrounded by enemies.

(2) He has made concessions to India on Kashmir even before the start of
any negotiations.

(3) Now he has effectively 'pleaded guilty to criminal proliferation.'

Who manipulates him so effectively and how? The not so secret fact is that
Qadianis and other 'confidants' communicate directions to him as 'advice',
arrange his meetings at home and abroad; accompany him every where and oversee
his
every move. I am not sure if he believes he is under no pressure; but that is
surely what his minders insist he says.

* If he said that he betrayed Afghanistan under pressure, the people
would blame the US; now they blame him.

* If he said that he agreed to 'stop cross border terrorism' (even
though it implied that he was lying when he said that the insurgency
was internally inspired) under pressure, the Kashmiris would
probably understand and forgive; now they blame him for betrayal.

* If he had said that the acquisition of nuclear weapons by states
under threat of aggression by a nuclear power (like Pakistan is from
India, North Korea from the US) was understandable; instead of
decrying their efforts, the world should decry the threats made by
powerful nations to small countries; he would have received praise
and the covert programme of Pakistan justified by right rather than
by transient US goodwill.

It worries all Pakistanis that our Gorbachev acts under pressure but says he
is under no pressure. His minders and advisors ensure that he takes all the
blame thus paving the way for the crowning of a Yeltsin in Pakistan. While we
need to warn the people of Gorbachev like character of President Musharraf, we
also need to be alert to the Yeltsin waiting in the wings to be put into power.

+ Usman Khalid +
Vivek_A
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Vivek_A »

When Powell announced that the northern alliance wouldn't enter Kabul because TSP wanted it that way, people thought TSP was being coddled. If TSP was really being coddled, the AQK revelations wouldn't be out in the open. Almost every newspaper in the US has published something about this sordid affair. This seems to be a deliberate attempt to pressurise TSP and get mushy to act.
Umrao
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Umrao »

Usman Saab ko addab ( agar aap BRF ke reader hai tho)

Aap kaafi samazdar aur akhalmand dik te hain.

Janab Musharaf Saab tho bilkul RAW aadmi hai

ab thak tho aap ko 400% yakeen honahi cha hi ye.

Zaldi se Zalde unko bartaraf kardiya jaye varna, Pakistan ki akhiri saas bahoot nazdeek hai.
Khudahafiz
Umrao Jaan
Aarya
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Aarya »

Originally posted by acharya:
Musharraf - Gorbachev of Pakistan?
+ Usman Khalid +
Usman Khalid, my fav writer in LISA. :-)
svinayak
BRF Oldie
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by svinayak »

Another one
Musharraf & Bush in Trouble because of Lies - Truth might Bail Them Out!

Saddam Hussain was foisted on the people of Iraq by America and was their
chief agent in the region for two decades. He fell foul with them when he was
trapped into invading Kuwait that he thought was his pay off for killing a
million Iranians in a pointless war. Victory in Kuwait was the high point of
America
as sole super power. It had the backing of the UN; every country was eager to
provide troops; the Arabs picked up the bill for the war; and the Gulf States
gratefully allowed American bases and troops on their soil.

It was all too easy. There was an outcry from the Zionists (also known as
Neo-Cons) why the attack was not pursued all the way to change the regime in
Iraq. Out of office during Clinton years, the Zionists infiltrated and gained
commanding influence in the Republican Party. They got into position to write a
plan for induction of President Bush into office. Among the objectives of the
new administration, an important one was to invade and occupy Iraq in order to
gain control of the oil riches of not only Iraq but also of Saudi Arabia and
Iran and use that control to dominate the world for a whole century.

That is the real objective of Zionists who make and implement the policy of
the US. But that objective violates every canon of law and morality. Ridding
the world of WMD, War on Terrorism (i.e. Islam) and Regime Change are just as
illegal. War for any reason except in response to invasion must be authorised by

the UN Security Council to be legal in international law. President Bush did
not conform to international law in invading Afghanistan or Iraq. He is trying
to convince the American public that it was their national interest to invade
and occupy the two countries. But he can do that more easily by telling them
the truth. Saddam, etc. were their renegade agents who had to be removed for
the sake of American security. This rationale - the truth - may even be popular
with Iraqis.

The same advice applies to President Musharraf. When confronted with reports
that No 1 in KRL had not just been selling but advertising for sale the
products of KRL, he must have been horrified. It appears that his first reaction
was
that it was the action of individuals that did not have the blessing of the
government. But that may not be entirely correct. One wonders which planet he
is living on. The fact is that Pakistan has not signed the NPT and enriched
Uranium is the fuel for power plants that can be bought openly and legally by
signatories of NPT. The treaty, naturally, is silent on the obligations of
non-signatories. For a time, when Pakistan was in economic difficulties because
of
American sanctions, the leadership looked the other way when the KRL took the
view that it could sell designs, even plant and actual Uranium fuel rods to
countries that had signed the NPT. I believe Iran, Libya and North Korea have
all
signed the NPT. If that be the case, they did not break any law by importing
design or equipment for fuel fabrication from Pakistan. If they have enriched
Uranium to weapon grade or have plans to do so, it is they who have breached
the NPT. As far as Pakistan is concerned it can still export fuel and equipment
for fuel fabrication to signatories of NPT. If the IAEA reports that any
country has breached the NPT, Pakistan could readily agree to stop supplying
nuclear materials to that country.

The outcry in the world and tension in Pakistan is the product of ineptitude
and ignorance of Pakistani leadership. It is unfair and immoral to make the
scientists scap- goats. Unlike the case of President Bush whose lie as well as
the truth are both unlawful, the truth appears to be quite lawful in the case
of Pakistan. Powerful nations can get away with lies and unlawful actions but a
country like Pakistan that faces two big bullies - India and America - must
stay on the right side of the law and the truth. In the dire situation that
every Muslim country faces, the wise course is to: 1) speak up and speak the
truth; 2) stay on the right side of international law. We should not be bullied
into supporting unlawful invasion of countries and persist in support of right
of national self determination of all peoples.

+ Usman Khalid +
Director London Institute of South Asia
VikramS
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by VikramS »

I have a small request for folks on BR.

I was driving past the Xerox PARC the other day when a thought hit me. All of us are guilty of sullying the good name of Xerox corporation by calling AQKhan "Xerox Khan".

I suggest we find a different moniker for Mr. Khan which does not insult Xerox or the people who work there.

"Electrostat Khan" or "Photocopy Khan" might be more appropriate. I do realize that the above two suggestions are not as easy to write as 'Xerox Khan', but it would be better than Xerox suing BR for defamation and slander.
Ananda
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Ananda »

Originally posted by suryavir: this blind American obession with Pakistan - a form of Fatal Attraction - is indeed one of the great mysteries of our times.
Its not such a mystery if you really think about it. Pakistan has been extremely useful to the US for many decades. You dont discard such a useful ally. Just some examples:

Helping the US spy on the Soviets during the Cold War. Gary Power took off on his U2 from a base in Pakistan.

Serving as the middle man in the Nixon-Kissinger opening to China.

Keeping a Cold War adversary, India, contained.

Kicking the palestinians out of Jordan. General Zia ul-Haq was rewarded with the presidency of Pakistan for this service.

Playing an absolutely critical role in kicking the Soviets out of Afghanistan.

Helping the US in training and defending Saudi Arabia and UAE.

Helping contain the Ayatollahs of Iran.

Dutifully making a U-turn and helping the US defeat the Taliban.

Helping catch Al-Qaeda terrorists and turning them over to the US.

And who know what other services were rendered clandestinely.

And Pakistan's usefulness to the US is not over yet. All these fantasies of the 'condom' being discarded are naive and premature.

The war against terrorism isnt over yet and most of the battles will be fought in Pakistan. Even after Osama is history, a pliant Pakistan will still have a crucial role to play in American geo-political strategy: containing India and keeping it away from the immense wealth of the persian gulf, containing Iran, providing military service for the oil sheikdoms, helping keep the Indian Ocean an American lake....

The fact that Pakistan has become the epicenter of terrorism and nuclear proliferation is blowback, an unintended, unexpected consequence. For which the US probably blames the lax relations after the end of the Cold War. They seem to be confident that they will eventually clean up the mess with Mushharaf's help and it will be back to business as usual. Its not so hard to understand where America is coming from.
Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Johann »

Tim, K Goan,

US reports from the 1980s have talked about the 'CHIC-4' design. The fourth Chinese test was unique in the sense that the test was delivered by missile, the Dong-Feng-2A, which the Chinese withdrew from service at the end of the 1970s.

Physically the M-11 was a much smaller missile than the DF-2. As K-Goan pointed out, transferring designs is not the same thing as transferring design expertise; ie the ability to generate reliable designs to meet a variety of needs. That would be very sophisticated, and if the Pakistanis were at that level we would all be worrying about when they might produce thermonuclear weapons.

On the other hand, the No-Dong is much, much closer to the DF-2's characteristics in terms of missile diameter and payload volume than the M-9 and M-11, and would make a logical platform. In addition of course to making Pakistan's threat of assured destruction more credible by sharply increasing the number of Indian cities under threat.

If we wish to speculate further, it would be far less politically dangerous for the Chinese to provide assistance with Ghauri/No-Dong mating than to have supplied a 'new', more suitable missile type.
Umrao
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Re: Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation - 07 Feb 2004

Post by Umrao »

Point taken.

Would
Abdul X | (| = or)
Abdul Copycat Khan (ACK as in acknowledge after his confession) |
Abdul Copy right Khan

do justice to his talents?
Locked