India - Nuclear News and Discussion

vsudhir
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Postby vsudhir » 21 Jul 2007 09:10

ramdas wrote:What is more galling is that MMS and his clique are reneging on solemn assurances given to parliament. They are equivocating on teir commitment to the parliament and therefore the whole people. This is what gives anybody the right to declare them as traitors.


Ramdy,

This sellout thing is more heat than light. Creates needless semantic diversions from issues at hand.

Chances are this thing may NOT be as bad as I'd feared. Perhaps. Hopefully. Wait and see before going all hyper ....

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Postby ldev » 21 Jul 2007 09:13

Ramdas,

Will respond in a few hours to your post.

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Postby Sanjay M » 21 Jul 2007 09:17

Raju wrote:Now the spin is that the 'safeguards offer' is what did it for India....

Safeguards offer swung it for India

Indrani Bagchi | TNN
21 Jul 2007, 0230 hrs IST

NEW DELHI: It was India's offer of a dedicated safeguarded facility for reprocessing of imported nuclear fuel that tipped the scales and swung the US to concede reprocessing rights to India. Without this, the Indian government had made it clear that there could be no deal.


Geez, it makes it sound like the US is having to undergo safeguards to satisfy us, and not the other way around. What a nutty reversal of reporting.

But is this safeguarded facility only for US fuel? If so, then I can live with that part, since we've plenty of other suppliers. If we reprocess all non-US fuel without safeguards, can't we use that reprocessed non-US fuel to develop the fast-breeder program?

I find it unacceptable that we can't do an N-test under the deal. I feel that somehow China and Pak will try to take advantage of this by provoking us with N-tests of their own.

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Postby sunilUpa » 21 Jul 2007 09:25

Wow, 3 lines of official press release produces 3 pages of whining..and couple of DDM reports. More of both to come.. :)

Raju

Postby Raju » 21 Jul 2007 09:32

Considering that safeguards offer was there on the table from day 1 of the so-called 4 day talks, why should it swing it for India only on the 5th day.

Cheney has asked for something and the SSM/MK combo have got the orders to convey to him that whatever he has asked for will be discussed at top priority. And as someone speculated it could well be Iran.

We have to wait for details on what has been given up, nuke or Iran.

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Postby Sanjay M » 21 Jul 2007 09:33

What if Cheney has suckered us, just so that he can get our support temporarily for an attack on Iran?

After Tehran's mullahs have been overthrown and Iran stabilized, then Cheney wouldn't need us anymore. By that time he could just let the N-Deal lapse amid squabbling between the two sides.

On the other hand, regime change in Iran would help India no matter what. I just hope it's regime-change that the US has planned for Iran, and not mere containment, which could be painful for both India and the US. Merely bombing the Iranian N-facilities won't be enough to remove the Iranian threat, and Tehran will lash out powerfully across the Middle East and elsewhere.

Raju

Postby Raju » 21 Jul 2007 09:36

Sanjay M wrote:On the other hand, regime change in Iran would help India no matter what. I just hope it's regime-change that the US has planned for Iran, and not mere containment, which could be painful for both India and the US. Merely bombing the Iranian N-facilities won't be enough to remove the Iranian threat, and Tehran will lash out powerfully across the Middle East and elsewhere.


How will an american puppet regime in Iran help India ?

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Postby Sanjay M » 21 Jul 2007 09:42

Because with Iran in US hands, then Pak won't have a monopoly on US/Western access to CentralAsia. Pak will lose all strategic worth for the West, and the way will be opened for breaking Pak into pieces. US control of Iran and breaking of Pak into pieces will further help to cut China off from the Persian Gulf. China's String-of-Pearls strategy to encircle India will be rendered worthless.

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Postby nkumar » 21 Jul 2007 09:54

Not sure if this interview (with Bharat Karnad) has been posted here. Excerpts-


What do you think of the deal?

I don’t think it is going to go through. I have always said that it is not going to go through. If Prime Minister Manmohan Singh keeps to his commitments (made) in Parliament in 2006, then there is no question of the deal going through. If India makes concessions in its powers (as a nuclear weapons’ state), only then could the deal happen.

Did Manmohan Singh know what he was getting into?

Apparently not. Even the Opposition completely misjudged the American political system. They did not know that the US Congress has its own rights over anything that President (George W.) Bush does.

Could you explain this deal from the perspective of current international geopolitics?

The Americans are thinking in terms of having India as a nominal counterweight (not a genuine one) to China, which would be dependent on the US. They think that they would be able to control India and then they can counter-balance China.


What do you think of Anil Kakodkar?


Kakodkar is a weak man. He is unable to protect the nuclear estates of the country. He failed to protect his own policy turf. When the July 18 statement was made, he had no role to play. He should have resigned then and there. He does not have the guts to say that if you do not follow the scientists’ technical advice, I resign. Now he is saying this. Where was he two years back? And he threatened to resign to (the Foreign Secretary), Shiv Shankar Menon, and not to the Prime Minister. People like him are not strong, not like the legendary Homi Bhabha.

If the deal collapses, where would we be with our strategic and nuclear power programmes?

Testing is very important for our strategic programme. If you do not test, your thermonuclear weapons’ programme will be incomplete. The military today is not convinced about the weapons given to them. For the nuclear power programme, I would say that India has worked splendidly well under US sanctions. We are today world leaders with the nuclear breeder technology and thorium reactors. How did we get there? Because we were compelled by the sanctions to go on with our nuclear power programme. So I wish the US would put more sanctions on us!

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Postby negi » 21 Jul 2007 10:28

nkumar wrote:What do you think of Anil Kakodkar? [/b]

Kakodkar is a weak man. He is unable to protect the nuclear estates of the country. He failed to protect his own policy turf. When the July 18 statement was made, he had no role to play. He should have resigned then and there. He does not have the guts to say that if you do not follow the scientists’ technical advice, I resign. Now he is saying this. Where was he two years back? And he threatened to resign to (the Foreign Secretary), Shiv Shankar Menon, and not to the Prime Minister. People like him are not strong, not like the legendary Homi Bhabha.

Sorry boss its inappropriate to say that Kakodhar is weak,he aint the one buying BS it is MMS and Co's fault why should he resign ? Oh Btw do you think that his resignation would serve as some kind of an eye opener for those who have sold their souls.

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Postby mandrake » 21 Jul 2007 10:35

Talking about US sanctions look, learn and remember! :)


Image

I was surprised to see this archived here,

http://www.cmmacs.ernet.in/cmmacs/News_clips/index.html


Our government is mis-using us Indians as a whole, All these LM innovation programme is here to take away the creamest of the talents and create IPR in their country, We are not defining the world order the Indian way, let alone define it NOT EVEN TRYING TO DO IT. When will our government understand the potential of our talent pool and do the needful to create IPR? This nuclear deal is essentially taking us in the same path, weapons or not-weapons it should be WE who should posess the market potential for future export of Thorium reactors and it shoulod be OUR GOVT who need to provide ALL THE basic facilities and funding to create the room for making such a viable commercial entity out of the r&d entity.
Last edited by mandrake on 21 Jul 2007 10:47, edited 3 times in total.

edwin
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Postby edwin » 21 Jul 2007 10:36

Hi to all the members,

I've followed BR since 1999 and finally opted on posting my first reply. While the jury is out on the current nuclear deal, I cannot help but feel uncomfortable with it given the opposition posed by the SciCom. Even Kalam himself has called for a need for leaders with more integrity a few weeks ago, perhaps he saw this coming.

It seems that Anil K aside, the rest of the Indian negotiating team are pushing through with the deal while trying their best to keep details under wraps and then presenting it as the finished article once the negotiations are sewn up. Effectively, if the safeguards are going to continue into perpetuity, no doubt our foreign policy is going to go down the drain as we are going to be held hostage to the terms of this agreement. Factor in the upcoming MRCA deal to the US and we have effectively given up all our strategic initiative, with nothing to show in return. We'll effectively be in the position Japan is today, sans advanced weapons. Many will snigger, but at the pace and path the Congress government is taking, this is moving from the realm of fiction into fact.

The speed and guile to which MMS is trying to sew up this deal points to something larger on the agenda which we may not be aware of at the moment and I hope it's nothing sinister. If the deal neuters India's nuclear capabilities, I hope he sleeps well, because obviously he's been losing sleep ever since the mother of the terrorist was caught pleading for her son's innocence.

At critical junctures like these, the decisions of a select few will determine the path of the nation for the next 15-20 years at least. The tribute paid by Haksar to his mentor, Krishna Menon is apt in this regard, and I quote:

"I said that I spent four years of apprenticeship under Krishna; this might be as
good an occasion for me to acknowledge publicly what I owe to him. What little
I learnt about the art and science of diplomacy, it was at his feet. From him
I learnt the art of negotiation. I learnt from him that in diplomacy the most
important thing was courage, a non-negotiable sense of dedication to the
interests of one's country; a capacity to see what your opponent has in mind
and to discern whether there was a basis for linking your opponent's concern
with your own.

Krishna was fiercely dedicated to his country's interest and he sought to protect
it, advance it, and project it with an incisive mind which was most elegantly
furnished with a fine tapestry of wisdom and wit. It was this mind which he
dedicated to the cause of our country, both prior to Indian Independence and
subsequently in the councils of the world where Krishna's name attracted immediate
attention and respect. He could not be deflected by flattery or blandishments from
pursuing the interests of his country with tenacity.

I am not saying that Krishna was a man without flaws, He had them, but these were
nothing when compared to the extraordinary qualities he possessed. Of course,
he just could not suffer fools, especially of the more active variety."

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Postby Tilak » 21 Jul 2007 10:51

joey,

Can you avoid using the hyper-sized fonts..

Thanks..

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Postby SaiK » 21 Jul 2007 11:18

If the agreement goes through as is now expected, India will
have to accept international inspection in its civilian nuclear


this is catching by the balls on the wordings.. time and again, our special communities warned govt not to agree on an abstract (not sure till we see the actual document - assumption here of course, but a fish bone analysis inference), like "international inspection on civilian nuclear reactor".

agreeing to this, how will we transfer pluts from spent fuel into FBRs that we are not planning to release into civilian?

if we establish those special zones where IAEA and CIA and other men will be watching very closely to check into our tech progress and etc.. how is it possible to move those reprocessed pluts to FBRs or ATWRs.

For this, we need to release these FBRs into civilian zone. We have argued about this many times, but no body has emphatic answers as to how we are to handle this?

IIRC, even Alok had reservations on such murky wordings.. Its time, we get the IP rights done and registered in US as well, but that might reveal more about our strategic program.

We can agree at an inspection level that does not look or cross lines like stepping into scientists and asking questions about design etc.. IAEA should be only acting like a cop that onlee checks if there is any proliferation concerns... it does not work even that way, since, FBRs are not to be in civilian zone, then where is the question of inspection to those areas.

This means, we are restricted to reprocessing use and / or either put FBRs into civilian zone, or dont use intl spent fuel on home grown reactors until its put on civlian list.

It should be okay with us, but the cost of such a separation plan is going to make nu energy not economical at all!?!?!? what is mms doing? he should have numbers in his brains.

We need to define what inspection means? to get some comfort feeling. I think AK et al would soon be heard. If they are happy, we all are happy.
Last edited by SaiK on 21 Jul 2007 11:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Satya_anveshi » 21 Jul 2007 11:18

Some folks have invoked Enron...if you all folks remember that so called 'historic' deal too was initiated by MMS under the directives of world bank. That deal promised 30% IRR to Enron and payments were to be made in dollars. Also, during his term as finance minister rupee depreciated from what 17(?) to 42 so it was all gains for his masters. In the end he put us in a situation where cost of khhr was Rs 8 something against the going rate of Rs 2 something.

The whole project was essentially handing over our b@lls on the platter.

In his very next opportunity, he is giving us this deal. What a great itch to screw the nation!

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Postby UPrabhu » 21 Jul 2007 11:27

* * Deleted, Inappropriate. * *
Last edited by UPrabhu on 21 Jul 2007 11:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby nkumar » 21 Jul 2007 11:31

Sorry boss its inappropriate to say that Kakodhar is weak,he aint the one buying BS it is MMS and Co's fault why should he resign ? Oh Btw do you think that his resignation would serve as some kind of an eye opener for those who have sold their souls.


Negi bhai, I did say anything about AK, it was the opinion of Bharat Karnad, he may be knowing more than all of us. But I agree, what he said is debatable.

IMO, a dhamakedaar resignation by AK and followed by a campaign would have surely made our PM and UPA lose sleep. Look what happened in our neighboring country. A nobody CJ made Mushy's life hell. I still feel only a big campaign by Scicom and the likes of Kalam can save India's future. Our ancient philosophy and science were so great but west got all the credit. How long will we be denied our rightful place in modern power equation. Having said that, I blame the *system* we have in India for all the pains. We need an effective-decentralized-democracy to change things otherwise this shit will keep on happening both outside and inside[e.g. SEZs -a state within a state]. We vote once in 5 years and that is it and afterwards no one is held accountable, they subvert the system for personal gains. This story is repeated in one way or the other again and again. Fix the system first or we will just keep crying for ever.

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Postby UPrabhu » 21 Jul 2007 11:50

AK resigning may not be a good idea in case the deal goes through the political process. I am counting on scicom and Kalam making enough statements to give impetus, high ground to NDA and REDS (hmm... for the first time in my life I am hoping for commie action...) to make some noise..

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Postby nkumar » 21 Jul 2007 12:42

CNN-IBN is singing a different tune. It says that US has agreed to India's demands but does not reveal anything in detail. Looks very shady indeed.

http://www.ibnlive.com/videos/45349/breakthrough-in-indous-nuclear-deal.html

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Postby Philip » 21 Jul 2007 13:27

What is actually happening is a total sell-out of the ENTIRE independent defence policy of India,its Non-Aligned stance,since Independence.All this too as we are about to celebrate (or rather mourn) our 60th B'day.

Condy Rice's unguarded statement about NAM and India revealed how far the US has intruded into the corridor's of power in the capital.Let me give you a few examples.The helo deal for the IArmy with Eurocopter is being overturned by US diplomatic pressure.The 126 MRCA deal ,by US accounts is all "sewn up".The carrot of the JSF (perhaps) in the future for a reasonable price,is being "dangled" in front of our eyes if we buy the F-16.The real fight is bewteen the F-18 and the F-16.It has earlier done the same as in the case of Isael (later versions) and Egypt,selling them both the F-16.The US is 100% sure that only a US aircraft will be the choice of India,because they have been secretly assured so by our "sergeants and constables".Confident about the coup-the takeover of India's defence policy,the US is now trying to dump another 35 yr. old LPD upon the IN apart from the P-8.The missile rpograme testing of AGNI-3 was delayed by a few years thanks to the US.They are not worried as the missile is China specific and are jubilant that we are turning more attention to the Chinese "threat".It serves their purpose totally if we become the country to stop the Chinese,in the same manner that Saddam was used to stop Khomeini's revolution from spreading in the Middle East.

The most shocking proof of the US great Indian "takeaway",is the utterly scandalous and shameful manner in which the perpetrator (the company)of the Bhopal WMD attack is being quietly brought back into India and even Ratan Tata has allegedly for the same. This was the worst industrial disaster in the world,in which thousands of Indians died and their corpses and survivors were subsequently secretly being used as Uncle Sam's chemical warfare guinea-pigs .I knew of one American who flew down within days of the disaster to Bhopal,ostensibly to look after the "orphans" left behind! Many US military doctors,chem-warfare specialists, like vultures to the corpses,masqueraded as US NGOs in the aftermath of the world's worst peacetime chemical disaster,collecting samples,etc. The survivors of the disaster today have been let down by the perpetrators of the crime and the GOI,which has turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to the pleas of the families of the suffering and the victims.

The manner in which the nuclear deal is being pushed in such indecent haste,armtwisting our nuclear scientific community,who with an almost universal voice have openly spoken out against the deal in the manner in which the US is shoving it down our throats,shows how hell-bent the Bush administartion is on "wrapping up" not just the nucelar deal,but instituting the second "East India Company" that is ushering in the second periiod of "colonial rule" in India.A mafia is ruining our country,where many of our politicos have allegedly with foreign assistance created huge benami empires for themselves and their foreign partners.Some have done so openly as in the Sun TV empire,using their (former) olitical status..The country has been sold down the rain to the robber barons of extreme capitalism.Even the Tatas have been seduced by the prospect of huge defence contracts with US partnerships.ratan Tatas very prominet presence and flghts in US aircraft at Aero-India appear not just for his personal enjoyment,but acquire a deeper meaning when seen in a different light.he is now making a play for Jaguar and Land Rover,two companies owned by Ford! Backscratching aplenty!

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Postby ksmahesh » 21 Jul 2007 16:33

In my opinion Ak should not resign but should come out in open using democratic rallies and active protests. UPA wouldnot dare to sack him. He can act as whistle blower and force UPA to backoff.

There is no other hope........

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US, India finalise nuclear accord

Postby Prabu » 21 Jul 2007 16:56

{Admin Note: Please in future do not post raw urls that are super long. It messes browser width and makes the theread very unreadable. Pls use URL button located above the post box.
I have edited you post to correct it.
-Arun_S, Admin hat on.}
[url=http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=73d530f7-17e9-4509-a4fe-339496b72883&MatchID1=4500&TeamID1=2&TeamID2=6&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1=1122&PrimaryID=4500&Headline=India%2c+United+States+finalise+nuclear+accord[/url]Link[/url]

This article is silent on many aspects including Right of tests, Re processing in Campain mode and many other factors !!! Does any one have the full draft agreements sent to GOI & US president ?

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US, India finalise nuclear accord

Postby Prabu » 21 Jul 2007 16:57

Self Deleted ! (Repeat )

PRABU
Last edited by Prabu on 21 Jul 2007 18:35, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby vsudhir » 21 Jul 2007 17:21

Prabhu

your links have screwed up page formatting. Pls use the following format

http://link%20here

Raju

Re: US, India finalise nuclear accord

Postby Raju » 21 Jul 2007 17:51

Prabu wrote:This article is silent on many aspects including Right of tests, Re processing in Campain mode and many other factors !!! Does any one have the full draft agreements sent to GOI & US president ?


According to NDTV on Nuclear deal India can reprocess spent fuel, and fuel supply is assured even after testing.

Details awaited.

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Postby Muppalla » 21 Jul 2007 17:55

I read some where regarding tests I guess US has right to stop fuel shipping. However, US president has waiver authority. The president could waive the stoppage based on geo-political and international situation at that time.

Raju

Postby Raju » 21 Jul 2007 17:58

Sources also say that America has agreed to India's key demands - right to reprocess spent fuel and structuring the language to assure that fuel supplies are not hit even if India conducts a nuclear test.


URL


Is it believable ??

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Postby Muppalla » 21 Jul 2007 18:00

Raju wrote:
Sources also say that America has agreed to India's key demands - right to reprocess spent fuel and structuring the language to assure that fuel supplies are not hit even if India conducts a nuclear test.


URL


Is it believable ??


Assuming this is true( I can't believe until I see the text), what is that India is giving up as a whole. It is too confusing at this time with too many versions of news reports.

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Postby Muppalla » 21 Jul 2007 18:08

http://www.domain-b.com/aero/july/2007/ ... r_deal.htm

India, US achieve accord on nuclear deal
21 July 2007

Washington/New Delhi: After teetering on the edge for quite some time, India and the United States of America appear to have secured a satisfactory ending to the path breaking nuclear deal, which had initially promised much but ran into political quicksand after a period of time. If an accord, as reported, has been arrived at, then it portends to launch the often acrimonious India -US relations onto a different, and a very positive, trajectory altogether.

Reports emanating from Washington suggest that the agreement, which has been reached by both the negotiating teams, will now be referred to their respective governments for a 'final review'. According to official sources, no official announcement has been made because the text first needs to be approved by the Indian Government's Cabinet and also to gauge domestic reaction.

At the end of four days of hardboiled negotiations, a joint statement issued by the two sides said, '' The discussions were constructive and positive.

''Both Under Secretary Burns and Foreign Secretary Menon are pleased with the substantial progress made on the outstanding issues in the 123 agreement.''

The bald statement, which only hints at some good news, may well see the US acceding to some key Indian demands - the right to reprocess spent fuel, and also structuring the language of the accord suitably to assure that fuel supplies are not disrupted even if India should conduct a nuclear test.
The composition of the negotiating teams reflected the urgency that both sides felt about wrapping up the deal. For a 'lame duck' Bush Presidency, as it is being increasingly characterized, the nuclear accord between the two nations would turn out to be a rare foreign policy success.

For India, a nation that has been battling nuclear isolation for well on three decades, the accord would not only ease nuclear fuel supplies for its existing and new reactors, but also provide fresh momentum to its campaign for permanent membership of the United Nations Security Council.
The top-level team of negotiators sent by India to Washington this time round included National Security advisor, MK Narayanan, Atomic Energy Chairman, Anil Kakodkar and Foreign Secretary, Shiv Shankar Menon.

On the American side, intervening at crucial stages of the negotiations were vice-president, Dick Cheney, who met with Narayanan, as well as Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

The deal now needs to be cleared by the US Congress and also pass domestic tests in India, with both the Left parties and the opposition, right wing, BJP waiting to see if the Union Government has given away more concessions to the Americans than required.

The deal would appear to be critical for India if it is to achieve 10 per cent of its energy supply from nuclear power, as against its current 3 per cent. It will also clear the path for India to access the latest dual use nuclear technology for medicine, weather forecasting, research and defence.

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Postby Singha » 21 Jul 2007 18:08

TOIs version speaks of the act saying fuel supplies would cease if India tests again but also a POTUS get-out-of-jail card waiver clause. however this means a big huge tamasha if India tests and a chance for the chinkil lobby there to call for stoppage and to teach-a-lesson to the impertinent Indians (while chinkil fine tunes the DF-41 to smack massa with)

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Postby Muppalla » 21 Jul 2007 18:19

Singha wrote:TOIs version speaks of the act saying fuel supplies would cease if India tests again but also a POTUS get-out-of-jail card waiver clause. however this means a big huge tamasha if India tests and a chance for the chinkil lobby there to call for stoppage and to teach-a-lesson to the impertinent Indians (while chinkil fine tunes the DF-41 to smack massa with)


I have a feeling that India would sell itself on the testing part. MMS was gainst testing of POK-2. He even opposed POK-1 in the conversations with PVN when he was FM. India is entering into CTBT via backdoor.

I hope I am wrong.

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Postby Amitabh » 21 Jul 2007 18:22

Raju wrote:
Sources also say that America has agreed to India's key demands - right to reprocess spent fuel and structuring the language to assure that fuel supplies are not hit even if India conducts a nuclear test.

URL
Is it believable ??

What is not believable is the amount of whining and chest beating in this thread. :roll:

Raju

Postby Raju » 21 Jul 2007 18:27

By the looks of it neither NDA or UPA will get a majority in next general election, how will a third front handle this nuclear issue ?

What is not believable is the amount of whining and chest beating on this thread. ':roll:'


People are trying to figure out what has been 'given' in turn for such big favors, if DDM first reports are proved correct. In give and take something has to give, and there is no mention of that.

And confidence in present dispensation is minimal.

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Postby Muppalla » 21 Jul 2007 18:28

Amitabh wrote:What is not believable is the amount of whining and chest beating in this thread. :roll:


You are on this forum since 1969 :) and it is surprising that whining on BR threads is still not believable for you ;)

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Postby vsudhir » 21 Jul 2007 18:33

Muppalla wrote:
Amitabh wrote:What is not believable is the amount of whining and chest beating in this thread. :roll:


You are on this forum since 1969 :) and it is surprising that whining on BR threads is still not believable for you ;)
:rotfl: :rotfl:

I learned the hard way that its better to wait for more hard info than jump to conclusions.

Lez hope the deal isn't unmitigated disaster for India's strategic options down the line.

What I don't quite get is the Iran angle. Its not like the US needs our permission or even our support to take on Iran.

If the US goes to war with Iran, apan kisika kya ukhaad lenge? They why are sooo many US congressis and senators and admin officials so worked up over Indo-Iran relations, whatever that means??

Raju

Postby Raju » 21 Jul 2007 18:49

vsudhir wrote:
What I don't quite get is the Iran angle. Its not like the US needs our permission or even our support to take on Iran.

If the US goes to war with Iran, apan kisika kya ukhaad lenge? They why are sooo many US congressis and senators and admin officials so worked up over Indo-Iran relations, whatever that means??


They do not want India to provide Iran with any new technology. You can infer from that as India has something potent enough jisse hum uska bahut kuch ukhaad sakte hain.

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Postby NRao » 21 Jul 2007 18:50

WRT Karnad and AK, they are both (like all of us) on a spectrum. Just that Karnad is much further to the right than AK is today. There are few way to the left - those that repeat the PMs statement in parliament.

On the deal itself, there was talk some months ago that things would be left fuzzy. That from a US PoV would therefore depend on a POTUS 'get-out-of-jail-card' and from an Indian PoV, reproc, testing, etc is a birth right. Clearly IF the US agrees to that India becomes a WS - thus the fuzziness.

However, that means that India is still at the beck and call of a future US Prez.

But, this deal will give MMS a thing to crow about, when in actuality in the long term one could see this trip India - in the event the US has a strong Prez and India has a very weak PM

However, I am sure that AK has a trick up his sleeve. He has to have one, else the Thorium phase gets compromised too early.

Rishirishi
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Postby Rishirishi » 21 Jul 2007 19:02

They do not want India to provide Iran with any new technology. You can infer from that as India has something potent enough jisse hum uska bahut kuch ukhaad sakte hain


The US is not concerned with Indian transfer of tech to Iran, because they know it wont happen. It is not in Indians interest, hence that card can't be used.

The US has 3 main interests.

1
Not to miss out on the massive nuclear expansion that is going to take place. US has not build nuclear power plants for decades, If India builds 40-50 without any outside help, India may get ahead in several fields.

2
US does not want to see Iran in as a key supplier of energy to India. As they do not want to see Iranian levrage in India. The Israelis are also not happy with a boost in Iranian sales, as the proceeds will be used for ant Israeli activites.

3
Glogbal warming is a problem, and it is not in US or any other counteis interest to see India build another 200 coal based power stations.

India is desperate for energy and needs forigin input.

Hence the stakes are too high to fail.

John Snow
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Postby John Snow » 21 Jul 2007 19:11

Keep at a safe distance from unkil

was the mantra for India for a long time and now our Ball less MMS has sold the country lock stock barrel.

Once agin Indian leadership confirms that India after all is only soft power.
period.

ShauryaT
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Postby ShauryaT » 21 Jul 2007 19:18

ramdas wrote:What is more galling is that MMS and his clique are reneging on solemn assurances given to parliament. They are equivocating on teir commitment to the parliament and therefore the whole people. This is what gives anybody the right to declare them as traitors.
Ramdas - Since you are so sure, Why not educate us all by listing these assurances and how the 123 goes against it?


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