India Nuclear News and Discussion - August 20, 2007

rgsrini
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Postby rgsrini » 22 Aug 2007 04:45

A million thanks to Shri Abusaleh Shariff for saying this aloud!!!

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Postby Prem » 22 Aug 2007 05:06

khan wrote:If this goes to an election, the Commies will get wiped out. The Congress will be able to run on this issue - and do very well. If this is what MMS or SG had planned, it is brilliant. They are making the Commies look anti-national and the at the same time eating into the BJPs middle class base.


UP election has made Kangress wiser and forward looking , Commies just dont know this and BJP dont understand this.They keep underestimating the old crows. Some one need to take a look at their "new" Handlers/Managers/Advisers to figure out their new moves. They intend to succeed where BJP failed to usher in new era.

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Postby vsudhir » 22 Aug 2007 05:08

Cong rejects Left’s demand to not negotiate with IAEA in Vienna (IE)

[quote] Congress party sources said there was no question of entertaining the Left rider on the Vienna meeting. “Why else would we send anybody?â€

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Postby ShyamSP » 22 Aug 2007 05:10

khan wrote:If this goes to an election, the Commies will get wiped out. The Congress will be able to run on this issue - and do very well. If this is what MMS or SG had planned, it is brilliant. They are making the Commies look anti-national and the at the same time eating into the BJPs middle class base.

Unless some thing is changed in W.Bengal and Kerala, there is nothing can be done to wipe out Commies. CPI/CPM are in essense regional parties how does national issues affect them. With the new alliances they can make they may come up with same number of seats again. This issue is too technical to take it to people. Only thing Congress can take to masses is slogan of cheap if not free electricity if this deal goes through. People are not going to fall for it this time. Opposition can go with the slogan than Congress is selling the country.

In essense this issue is not something you take it to people to fetch winning votes.

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Postby enqyoobOLD » 22 Aug 2007 05:14

ramana, I don't see any counter-strike from Karat. Desperation perhaps, but nothing much more.

I think MMS has forced the left into exposing itself, and from what we hear, the intent of the Kolkata-based interview was to isolate Karat &Co.

The West Bengal commies have been scrambling to get better relations with the US, and there are reports of frequent visits from top-ranking embassy types (probably Culinary types too) to pow-wow with the Politburo in Kolkatta. So the Karat couple may be vulnerable to isolation as the China bag-holders in India.

The Left has a problem - they can't be seen to sit quiet as India aligns with the US and makes a huge joint trade-strategic collaboration decision. MMS seems to have used the occasion to push the Left into the corner. Of course Karat will fight back, but the damage seems to be done. MMS may have figured that getting out of government may be better than continuing to be harassed 24-7 by the Karats' blackmail. If so, he has my respect.

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Postby ShyamSP » 22 Aug 2007 05:16

khan wrote:If this goes to an election, the Commies will get wiped out. The Congress will be able to run on this issue - and do very well. If this is what MMS or SG had planned, it is brilliant. They are making the Commies look anti-national and the at the same time eating into the BJPs middle class base.

Unless some thing is changed in W.Bengal and Kerala, there is nothing can be done to wipe out Commies. CPI/CPM are in essense regional parties how does national issues affect them. With the new alliances they can make they may come up with same number of seats again. This issue is too technical to take it to people. Only thing Congress can take to masses is slogan of cheap if not free electricity if this deal goes through. People are not going to fall for it this time. Opposition can go with the slogan than Congress is selling the country.

In essense this issue is not something you take it to people to fetch winning votes.

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Postby Satya_anveshi » 22 Aug 2007 05:16

I think congress might have been emboldened by Haneef Mohammad's case and thought that it has enough to show for the muslim cause. In the event congress ditches Left and calls for election, everyone gets screwed in the election except Cong. Left might have taken this gumption by the weak, gutless, humble chowkidar to mean that cong is about to ditch Left. This is contrary to current understanding.

That is why Left will not take out the support immediately and will wait till it nullifies that congress advantage. Hence, we are seeing what we are seeing.

Plausible?
Last edited by Satya_anveshi on 22 Aug 2007 05:27, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Ananth » 22 Aug 2007 05:23

khan wrote:If this goes to an election, the Commies will get wiped out. The Congress will be able to run on this issue - and do very well. If this is what MMS or SG had planned, it is brilliant. They are making the Commies look anti-national and the at the same time eating into the BJPs middle class base.


Karat and a section of CPM have been setup. It is a myth that GoI is in a minority with respect to 123. The only price to pay for bringing in NDA into the camp is to forward the matter to JPC. By all analysis NDA is not ready for mid-term polls. So are congress and left. No one is ready for it except BSP. The chance of GoI falling on this issue is very slim.

The stark choice infront of left is to blink first and continue to have their hands in the gravy train for 2 more years or go to polls for which they are not ready. Which is really not a choice if you reflect on it. The left has already been reminded by aging Basu about their historic blunder. Simply put, they have nothing to show in kerala, WB. Tripura contributes very few seats. Karat has painted himself and a section of CPM into a corner. He has to blink first.

If he doesn't, GoI will setup a JPC and seal up his career for good.

Aakhir, JPC setup karne mein jatha kya hain?

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Postby vsudhir » 22 Aug 2007 05:31

Eastern states want DMIC style industrial hub on the Howrah-Delhi corridor (TOI)

And those eastern states includes west bengal.

Who'll invest in this eastern corridor if not the new allies from the 123 deal? Could it be that WB CPM is signalling on the ground that its ready to move on from 2 Carat's posturing? Just wondering.

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Postby pradeepe » 22 Aug 2007 05:32

RaviBg wrote:What’s religion got to do with 123?

What’s religion got to do with 123?
Abusaleh Shariff

The writer is chief economist, NCAER, and was member-secretary of the Sachar Committee. Views are his own


Very well articulated piece by Mr. Shariff. So that tears down another false wall erected by the worthies. This one had them recruiting Seema Mustafa to hoist the IM sensibilities canard.

Not long now before the chicom paycheck angle is laid bare.

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Postby alokgupt » 22 Aug 2007 05:33

Ananth wrote:Karat and a section of CPM have been setup. It is a myth that GoI is in a minority with respect to 123. The only price to pay for bringing in NDA into the camp is to forward the matter to JPC. By all analysis NDA is not ready for mid-term polls. So are congress and left. No one is ready for it except BSP. The chance of GoI falling on this issue is very slim.


May be commies and kangress have suddenly realized 2009 isn't that far. Seems like election campaign is picking up early in India.

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Postby bala » 22 Aug 2007 05:42

The congress is probably telling Continue to Protest ya Idiots but Muffle (CPI&M ) your enthusiasm eventually but the CPI&M are trying to carve their own version of 123 face server. We have the right to protest on behalf of our national laws (china controlled of course pal CCCP) but you are bound by international laws (Hyde, 123, US-India deal, Japan/Aus naval treaty).

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Postby nkumar » 22 Aug 2007 05:58

[url=http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070822/asp/opinion/story_8221833.asp] LEFT SMARTING
- The crisis over the nuclear deal was in the making for a year[/url]


[quote]I ran into a high-profile member of Ambassador David Mulford’s team at the American embassy in New Delhi a few months ago on a street close to my home just outside Washington. After the usual pleasantries, he told me how out of touch we Indian correspondents in Washington were about the flourishing and promising state of Indo-US relations. “You guys should come to New Delhi and see how good things are,â€

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Postby kgoan » 22 Aug 2007 06:00

Hullo Folks:

Just a quick point regarding Our Beloved Commies and China:

'Cause I think some folk here, and some of our lurkers from the Dlagon Rand may have missed the point of what it means that the Chinese need to have a lobby in India protect themselves.

Do consider, what it implies that India has a French Lobby, a US Lobby, A Chinese Lobby, a Russian Lobby etc working within the country -- What other country and what *type* of country do you know of where other folks have to "lobby" for themselves.

I'll tell yer for free. The capital of the Imperium that's in Washington DC. Great Powers always have lesser powers lobbying them.

Ever hear of a US lobby in Mongolia? An Indian Lobby in Zimbabwe? Why not? Hell, have you heard of an Indian Lobby *anywhere* else other than the US? Because the US *is* the current main Imperium. We're just the wannabe beta/chota imperium.

For now. But we have one accrouement nicely taken care of - the lesser folks begging *our people* to protect them from *our* govt. Just like all those stupid third world types who try and get leftie Americans to "tell the US people what the US govt is doing". So they have to rely on Americans to protect them from . . . America. That's worked really well for the last few decades hasn't it. LOL!

Do consider the idea of the oh-so "mighty" Chinese dependent on the votes of Bengali peasants to try and constrain GoI. ROTFL!

Sure we need to pay attention to the issue of the "lobbies" - no not because they're bad or evil or whatever other night terrors grip some of the folk on this thread - but because the more the Chinese show that they need the *internal* political processes of India to protect themselves, the more they show just how weak the Chinese state is to influence us directly.

Heck, yer think if those stupid third worlders could take on or influence the US govt directly they'd bother with begging Noam Chomasky and Leftie Americans to please, please, pretty please protect them from . . . America? It's total weakness that forces them to rely on or beg leftie Americans. Not strength.

So to with our dear North Asian Brothers. And seriously folks, if you don't grok this point, you've wasted your time on BRs Hot Air Forum.

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Postby kgoan » 22 Aug 2007 06:16

Re: The BJP:

Ok, lemme be blunt here: Anyone who thinks the BJP is against this deal is an idiot, if you'll scuse the French. (OT - why does cussing have to be "french"? On an Indo forum shouldn't it be pakee? If so, please 'scuse my pakee).

Only those who don't have a clue about our parliamentary process and the governments privileges (as long as it holds the confidence/majority in parliament) could think that the Govt would allow the opposition and other non-govt parties a dekho or say in the process.

The BJP is quite well aware of this. It simply sees a lovely chance to smack the Congress silly, grab a few brownie points, and possibly tar the govt all without actually putting itself on the line or actually voting against the deal.

The deal *will* be operationalised, India's power (in both senses of the word) quotient in the global system *will* increase, and the BJP will win some votes. The BJP get to have their cake and eat it to. They'd be daft not to do what they're currently doing.

Come on people, none of yer ever involved in some relatives dowry negotiations. (Yes, yes, that doesn't happen among all us sophisticated types of course, but surely yer have some . . . umm . . . unsophisticated relatives whom yer helped, right? 'Course you did).

Now what happens? Everyone and his horse, every obscure Auntie, Uncle and far of cousins will be in it fighting tooth and nail for the familys "honour". Everyone. (While the poor craven bridegroom, and catatonic bride on the verge of a nervous breakdwon, says ne'er a word).

Once everyones had their say and the negotiations are completed and family "honour" is salved and saved what happens? You know as well as I do.

Those same Uncles, Aunties and well meaning cousins switch instantly to, "is that all - well he/she does have a squint and you're nothing special anyway".

But they don't get to that stage until everything is signed and sealed. Then the grooms/brides spiteful relatives, who were fighting with spiked clubs just before, will happily turn on their groom/bride and tell 'em what an awful choice they've got and how poorly they did. . .

That's all this little fake tamasha of the BJP and the Congress is. I find it bizarre that some folk here seem to have completely misunderstood what the BJP's actually doing.

Some folk here need to seriously need to put their thinking caps back on . . . if its possible for some of you, because if this thread is anything to go by, some folk here swapped their thinking caps for a tin-foil replacement.

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Postby enqyoobOLD » 22 Aug 2007 06:35

Hello kgoan, my tin-foil hat is receiving signals from Andromeda. What happened, they let you out in the middle of the week?

Of course the GOI will move on and sign the deal etc. etc. because foreign deals are done by the Govt, and the Opposition/Left etc. has no say in such things, since no one died and elected them kings. Question is whether they manage to mess things up so badly that the process comes to a halt just because the PM quits in a huff etc.

But I don't think u r quite so right in your estimate that the BJP's and Left's opposition to the deal is without cost. Even in those dowry jousts, some really bad feelings persist, and turn into feuds for the next few centuries.
The appearance of being idiots is hard to shake.

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Postby Anand K » 22 Aug 2007 06:38

I dunno if the LF cheer leading for China can be tagged as innocuous lobbying..... "5th column" maybe?
It's something more like the old Persians and Turanis having their own factions in the Mughal court or the German trained and supported Pashas in the Ottoman Court (who forced the Sultan to enter WW1) or to take a more recent example, the Morarji Desai regime which had a faction close to the West....

Lobbies in the US are more transparent (in theory), they have stated objectives, members are public about their positions (well, mostly!) and sometimes lawmakers are members of more than one lobby. IMVHO lobbying ain't that critical either..... maybe if the GOTUS is penetrated or owes a big one to the foreign power (like Clinton and PRC) it might appear that the Lobbying yielded big dividends. BTW, lobbying is legal in the US system too..... But here the commies publicly swear they have Mother India's best interests in their minds while they prolly j3rk off on the latest cryptogram from the Secretary of the 14th ward of the Chengdu (Rural) Area Committee of the CPC within the confines of AKG Bhavan. You don't have the LF members publicly hoisting "Indo-China Interests Group" or "South Asian Coalition to Disembowel India" or even an "Indo-Pakistan Biradari Club" and push common programs in parliament.

The Indian Parliamentary system has this "Party Whip" thing that (ideally) forbids loose cannons from destroying the deck..... and most importantly, lobbying is "corruption" as per Indian Law. Hence at most you have plants inside political parties (at high levels) to influence policy making...... IMO this ain't plain vanilla Lobbying. Lobbying for a foreign power, in the US system, doesn't (necessarily) mean/imply that the lawmakers in those lobbies are going against US interests, but here in India it simply translates to sabotage. [**ADDED - US Lobbies are more interested in offering sops/aid or to forge economic ties with the foreign nation under question. When it comes to strategic issues, questions of US interests (let alone survival) lobbies tend to turn meaningless and the members know it. Hence you have Indian Caucus members voting against India and all that.. Moreover, these lobbies have US business interests driving them, this is something we don't see in India. Like, which Indian industrialist would really want them crafty China to have a finger in the pie. **] The fact that the Constitution doesn't exactly recommend non-parliamentary/non-governmental special interests groups within the floor makes this "lobbying" all the more char sau bees

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Postby kgoan » 22 Aug 2007 06:58

>>they let you out in the middle of the week?

'Scaped. Jumped the wall and bolted while no one was lookin'. They'll get me back in the end :-? - in the meantime. . .

Lots of bad feelings, yeah. But Yindoo politics ain't for the faint-hearted. And "power" politics :) even less so. But seriously N, I'm pretty convinced the BJP is on the deal. Regardless of what they say publicly or whisper "quietly", which is just another way of saying things publicly in Yindoo land.

Anand: Not innocuous, no. Nothing innocuous about Pakee lobbying the US either. But it's still the beggar and the emperor there.

Over the years, the idea that one of the best ways to get India to do something is by outsider powers getting involved in our political process via oodles of cash has been fostered and virtually cultivated by our pollies.

This sends most folks in paroxmys of fear and they begin the hysterical cries of "sellout", "traitor", "danger", etc.

I don't. Neither do our power elite. They simply don't fear the world as much as folks on the outside do. In fact I think that there can't be anything better for us than outsiders having to be dependent on our internal political processes for their well being.

YMMV.

Cheers, K.

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Postby Vick » 22 Aug 2007 07:04

There's lobbying the process and there's subverting the process. Is there a distinction to be drawn?

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Postby Manny » 22 Aug 2007 07:21

I used to like the BJP, But now I have serious doubts about them. I thought it was the lefty congress that cannot make big deicisions and big ideas.

But I was wrong.. Its terrible that the BJP a-holes have given the lefty commies the moral support and strength.

:( :( :eek: :eek: :eek: :roll:

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Postby csharma » 22 Aug 2007 07:26

As someone pointed out BJP is losing middle class support.

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Postby ldev » 22 Aug 2007 07:26

Majority of Indians back N-deal, oppose snap poll


[quote]Relax, Prime Minister. People of the country are with you, not with the Left on the nuclear deal with the US. And the best part is, they think you are more patriotic and nationalistic than CPM General Secretary Prakash Karat

Also, an overwhelming majority of the Indians don’t want a mid-term election, talk of which has gained ground lately with the four Left parties ratcheting up tensions over the deal.


An opinion poll conducted by C fore for the Hindustan Times — in five cities covering 586 respondents — shows that Indians don’t think the deal is unfair to the country, as claimed by the Left parties.

The UPA, however, should not ignore the Left’s objections. While 49 per cent say that the Left’s stand on the issue is not right, 35 per cent believe that the Left is right.

Here is another one. To a question whether they think the deal brings India “too closeâ€

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Postby Anand K » 22 Aug 2007 07:37

The LS seats from WB and the cpl of seats from Tripura are "assured". Nothing short of a miracle or 400 battalions of cops REALLY policing the elections would dent that. It's the 19/20 seats from Kerala (instead of the usual 5-10/20) that boosted the LF's clout. It's common knowledge that Saddam Hussein and Madhani were the true victors in the 2004/2006 Kerala Elections.... it was the Muslim vote that swung the fortunes in some critical districts (heck, even the Muslim majority Malappuram voted for the left). The kind of vote-bankism, ties with forces like PDP and the pro-Islamist campaign undertaken by the "godless" commies had to be seen to be believed. A.K. Antony's hard stance against "Minority Muscle" (he personally knows the power of the fundamentalist..... apparently, when his outspoken dad died, the church dumped the body into the "themmadikuzhi", i.e. a portion of the graveyard reserved for enemies of the faith/persons who committed suicide. PS: I dunno about this, heard it somewhere....) didn't make things any easier for the UDF either. Moreover, there are powerful anti-US segments in TN who vote for the CPI/CPIM..... the national IM base who might blindly turn against the US and anyone associated with the US (hasn't happened yet, but surely CAN happen) is on the LF sights too.

The Politburo can't simply ignore these factors. if it comes to a question b/w the vote-base and the present UPA Govt I don't think the LF would think twice before pulling the Govt down.
Last edited by Anand K on 22 Aug 2007 07:47, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Manny » 22 Aug 2007 07:42

Who would have thunk?

The congress party looks like a reasonable middle of the road and practical party for India. I used to hate them because they were the lefties.


Now, its clear that they are the moderate and sane party. the BJPs are clowns..without Vajpayee. They are simply scoundrels! They are looking more and more like the Janata party of yester years. and The lefty commies on the other hand are traitors and Chinese.

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Postby kgoan » 22 Aug 2007 07:48

I think the commies are cleverer than that.

But if they do miscalculate and trap themselves into forcing an election -- why complain?

They'll wreck themselves on their own cleverness. The Left should have fallen apart after the SU fell apart and the and the Chinese tossed the little Red Book onto the garbage heap.

Someone they managed to survive the bankruptcy of their ideology and in fact prosper. A clever bit of politics if ever there was.

They're now trapped into a pavlovian anti-americanism, a ludicrous pro-chini atitude that even they don't dare push to much (note the statement that China has nothing to do with their stance - not even their own cadres believe that rubbish), and an alliance with those who despise them the most and would kill the whole lot of the godless commies them if given the chance - the Islamic fundoos.

Somethings got to give in this weird mis-mash of the lefts world view. If it happens sooner as opposed to later, its all to the better for us.

Let the Commies wipe themselves out. It will benefit the country no end if they do.

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Postby rgsrini » 22 Aug 2007 07:53

Manny wrote:
Who would have thunk?

The congress party looks like a reasonable middle of the road and practical party for India. I used to hate them because they were the lefties.


Now, its clear that they are the moderate and sane party. the BJPs are clowns..without Vajpayee. They are simply scoundrels! They are looking more and more like the Janata party of yester years. and The lefty commies on the other hand are traitors and Chinese.


IMO, BJP would have done the eact thing as Congress as far as the Nuclear deal is concerned, if they were in power. Congress would have done the exact same thing as BJP if they were the opposition. Infact they would have sunk even lower than BJP and completely aligned with the left and spoken with a common disgusting voice.

IMO Congress continues to be a leftist party with horrible policies such as "caste based quota system" and Minority appeasements.

BJP just does not have a role to play in this deal and is trying to make some noise to make itself visible.

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Postby ShyamSP » 22 Aug 2007 08:07

Manny wrote:I used to like the BJP, But now I have serious doubts about them. I thought it was the lefty congress that cannot make big deicisions and big ideas.

But I was wrong.. Its terrible that the BJP a-holes have given the lefty commies the moral support and strength.

:( :( :eek: :eek: :eek: :roll:

Manny wrote:Who would have thunk?

The congress party looks like a reasonable middle of the road and practical party for India. I used to hate them because they were the lefties.


Now, its clear that they are the moderate and sane party. the BJPs are clowns..without Vajpayee. They are simply scoundrels! They are looking more and more like the Janata party of yester years. and The lefty commies on the other hand are traitors and Chinese.


BJP already said to set up JPC to look into it. Unless you're choose to ignore their position or acting like Congress mediaman, let's reduce BJP-bashing. They haven't done anything to deserve name-calling. What's going on is Congress' own making.

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Postby ldev » 22 Aug 2007 08:19

Anand K wrote:The LS seats from WB and the cpl of seats from Tripura are "assured". Nothing short of a miracle or 400 battalions of cops REALLY policing the elections would dent that. ..........

The Politburo can't simply ignore these factors. if it comes to a question b/w the vote-base and the present UPA Govt I don't think the LF would think twice before pulling the Govt down.


Can the Politburo ignore what is posted below?

Karat's hardline has Buddha govt. in bind

KOLKATA: CPM general secretary Prakash Karat's "no compromise" stance on the Indo-US nuclear deal has left the West Bengal CPM in a bind.

Even as senior leaders swore by the politburo decision, Bengal leaders are banking on external affairs minister Pranab Mukherjee's "mechanism" to keep the UPA coalition government going, at least for some time.

But what's sinking in it is that the party's ideological hardline on the 123 deal has marked the end of the help that chief minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee had from Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on the state's much-needed new industrial policies.

There have been many occasions when the PM went the extra mile to support Bengal's cause, be it on modernisation of the Dum Dum airport or setting up a deep sea port in Haldia.


The present crisis comes at a time when the CM's comprehensive airport modernisation plan was to be placed before the PMO. Karat's putting the UPA government on notice has put a question mark on a whole lot of such projects, the proposed chemical hub being a case in point. The Centre promised as much as Rs 10,000 crore towards beefing up local infrastructure.

More than the financial loss that West Bengal may suffer once denied of the central bounty, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee, the CPM's face in Bengal, has to reorient his entire poll strategy before he goes for the snap polls. Industrial rejuvenation and development, the CM's pet slogans, will have to take a backseat now with his party going a whole hog against the US and the role of the Congress.

Pundits at Alimuddin Street on Monday were busy weighing these options, keeping the politburo decision in mind.
The Bengal CPM secretariat, unlike Kerala, isn't keen on withdrawing support from the UPA government right at this moment. Instead, it's keen on extracting the pound of flesh on state issues, providing the Congress its much needed lifeline. The mood is apparent from CPM patriarch Jyoti Basu's ruling out chances of a mid-term poll despite his saying that the CPM politburo is "unanimous" on its anti-US stand.

Apart from industrialisation issues, the Bengal CPM can also gauge the change of stance in the state Congress, once the UPA government falls through. The mahajot among Trinamul Congress and Congress that was informal till date will become a reality and the state Congress will go overboard to stoke the embers in Singur and Nandigram to hurt the CPM's electoral prospects.

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Postby SaiK » 22 Aug 2007 08:34

Well said about con-craze .. I am not seeing BJP keeping quite but are visible on the wrong of the equation, rather on the right side.. that is what the projection is, but that may not be the intention.. if so, let them go on a correction mode pretty soon. yes, they do have a big constructive role to play being in the opposition.. and its wrong to say, they don't have a role to play.


They have to demand a JPC or something of a executive group represented from major parties (I hate local parties dictating national governance - TN, Bengal, etc.. have ruined our images).. BJP is not demanding for a joint commission rather meekly saying it.

They should have joined the team talking to IAEA and NSG.. only the left cried wolf. BJP has become low key after making a big move., and that doesn't serve any purpose or demonstrate any leadership qualities.. too many gray hairs with them and more older now than ever compared to graze party.

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Postby rgsrini » 22 Aug 2007 08:54

and its wrong to say, they don't have a role to play.


SaiK, I 400% agree that they do have a constructive role to play and they are playing it behind the scene. What I meant was, MMS government does not need the BJP to see this deal through. It appears that Congress is posturing to go down with the ship, even if the Left decides to topple the ship (instead of sending an SOS to BJP).

MMS government does not want any credit to reach BJP, may be rightfully so...just like BJP is given all the credit for exploding the Bum (even though successive congress government nurtured the process). BJP badly wants some credit for the deal as it started the process and it is such a "nationalistic" thing to do for India. They are trying to show that they are more nationalistic than congress by nitpcking and resorting to scare mongering.

The one good thing is that it forces everyone to think about every aspect of the deal and restricts our maneuverability in negotiations with IAEA and NSG.

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Postby SaiK » 22 Aug 2007 09:03

thats the entire problem here... self ego, partisan issue.. and put the shame on us (people like us) to carry. bjp doing congress and congress doing bjp.. both show nothing towards common sense.

why should the congress feel it should feel bad in asking for a SOS.. why call it SOS btw.. call for being on the right side or on the wrong side. when we have hajzaar parties fracturing, the issue based focus is given up and lost into party politics.

we need to find alternatives to these structure problems. the best solution is issue based voting.. issues like these makes people to go vote for it or against it. f the babooze.. who cares about them.

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Postby UPrabhu » 22 Aug 2007 09:07

SaiK, BJP demanded JPC twice... demand rejected without even being discussed.. if the deal fails only MMS is to be blamed.. what was he thinking?.. going with such a historic deal with < 200 MPs? or is it he has something to hide? or he must be a fool to think left would allow such deal to be signed..

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Postby rgsrini » 22 Aug 2007 09:31

UPrabhu,
Soon after the 1998 Nuclear test, Congress came in support of the test calling it a "National Achievement". http://www.fas.org/news/india/1998/05/980514-dlnews.htm and chose not to politicize it.

Something to think about...
Last edited by rgsrini on 22 Aug 2007 09:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Kati » 22 Aug 2007 09:34

Compromise in the works. The great indian democracy chuggs along....

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070822/a ... 222866.asp

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Postby bala » 22 Aug 2007 09:36

Despite all the posturing and being clever by half, there comes a stage when leaders of major parties need to steady the rocking boat and not make as?es of themselves. In the US, Senator George Mitchell, democrat worked well with the Republicans no matter what the contentious issue of the day were. The US-Indo nuclear deal is beyond nuke trading. What is at stake is the fork in the road that India needs to take in order to secure its strategic future. Karat & Yechuri (deserve a spanking in the next election) are like school kids and cry babies and have clearly chosen their master’s (China’s) path. It is up to the congress crazies and cry wolf BJPites to quietly take stock of the moment and do what is right for the nation. Maybe this is happening as we speak. MMS should have reached out to the BJP and included them all the way. What is needed is sagacity and maturity of leadership a la George Mitchell style and not some sissy media conducted crapola.

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Postby UPrabhu » 22 Aug 2007 09:49

What else could they have done in 1998? And BJP carried majority consensus. But this is different, this is a deal with another country, and we need to study whether it is good for the country or not? what are the implications of the deal to national security. what I am saying is you cannot expect BJP to support when all effort made towards it are thwarted. BJP wants to study the implications of Hyde Act. Whats wrong in that?

Or do you want BJP to support the deal just because it looks good on paper, and sign onto something which is really very bad? The BJP wants deal to be studied further and has said it is not principally opposing it, but is not sure about it in its present form... so MMS has to ensure he carries the consensus..

rgsrini wrote:UPrabhu,
Soon after the 1998 Nuclear test, Congress came in support of the test calling it a "National Achievement". http://www.fas.org/news/india/1998/05/980514-dlnews.htm and chose not to politicize it.

Something to think about...

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Postby ShyamSP » 22 Aug 2007 09:59

x-post from India Forum
[quote]LEFT SMARTING - The crisis over the nuclear deal was in the making for a year
I ran into a high-profile member of Ambassador David Mulford’s team at the American embassy in New Delhi a few months ago on a street close to my home just outside Washington. After the usual pleasantries, he told me how out of touch we Indian correspondents in Washington were about the flourishing and promising state of Indo-US relations. “You guys should come to New Delhi and see how good things are,â€

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Postby Ananth » 22 Aug 2007 10:12

Interesting debate on the deal @ acorn

Especially read, points of nitin, Gujjubhai, Dr. vidyasagar and B.O.K.

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Postby svinayak » 22 Aug 2007 11:20

[quote]From: sandhya176@sify.com
Date: Aug 21, 2007
Sub: Dyarchy in New Delhi
Pioneer-21August2007

The Indo-US nuclear deal has exposed our worst kept post-colonial secret – there is dyarchy in New Delhi with UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi calling the shots and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh executing her designs, even at the cost of national security and sovereignty. Never before has Ms. Gandhi’s foreign origin posed such an overt threat; she said the deal was close to her heart without revealing why; delivered her overarching seal of approval at the Congress Parliamentary Party meet a day after Dr. Singh’s address to Parliament; and skipped the public arena once Washington unveiled the emasculating nature of the deal, leaving the government to cope with the political fallout.
[b]
What is most disturbing, however, is the manner in which domestic anxiety has degenerated into a government-opposition squabble. UPA’s denial of the US State Department’s claim that the deal stands “terminatedâ€

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Postby kshirin » 22 Aug 2007 11:22

Apparently Commies went to PM and ACTUALLY SAID you should think about China's sensitivities a bit. To which PM is reported to have told them Perhaps you should think about India's interests sometimes too.

If this is true he should go public with it, , but even the source does not want to be named. Except that maybe people will start questioning why he allied with them in the first place and allowed several economic reform measures to suffer (Pl. note: I am not for a sellout to Ambanis in the name of reform), given realities and storm over anything he says I suppose he cannot go public with this.


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