Nuclear Discussion - Nukkad Thread: 16 Apr 2008

Katare
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Nuclear Discussion - Nukkad Thread: 16 Apr 2008

Postby Katare » 15 Apr 2008 22:29

Old Thread HERE.
-Arun_S {Admin hat on}
----------------------------------------------------------------
ShauryaT wrote:
Katare wrote:Arun,
Calling duly elected Prime Minster of India a rat is unbecoming of a gentleman BRFite. While couple of admins are cautioning against name calling you as an admin is promoting/encouraging name calling.

It seems like time for


IB4TL
Boooo! What next, ban RK Laxman cartoons in the TOI!

There is a fine line between criticising Government officials and using adjectives such as a (traitor, without substantiation). Articualting a message through analogies of a Mouse and a Lion to personalities, should be par for the course unless BRF intends to be a "Whatever my Governemnt does" is fine and Any one who criticises the Government or its head, is BRF's enemy!

Let us grow up, shall we!


Impressive explanation, all right you folks are the lions and I/we are the mouse/rats.

Incidentally I remembered the childhood story about how a lion couldn't get out of hunters net and than a Chuha/mouse, whom the lion didn't consider worthy of friendship, saved his life by cutting the net.

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Postby Katare » 15 Apr 2008 22:35

satyarthi wrote:Katare,

That was a good post.

But all the pointers suggest that India's position wrt world and US will improve over the next few years. so what if we can't gt a "deal" with a new democrat dominated US presidency. Why can't we wait few more years when the incentives for US and the west to co-opt India will be even more stronger?

Despite all the talk of India behaving like a strong country, pointers are not very reassuring. India IS a strong country but hardly behaves as one. Even though we may say that in future India can walk away when needed, do you seriously expect a MMS type personality to have that kind of nerve. Even Vajpayee was accused of, and rightly so, of wobbly knees. Only strong leader able to comprehend AND play the international realpolitic was Indira Gandhi and to some extent Rao. The present ruling combine is most weak kneed dispensation we have had so far.

The present leadership doesn't inspire confidence. Just yesterday two of the most senior leaders of Congress, Arjun Singh and Pranab Mukherjee were competing to kiss crown prince Rahul Gandhi's bottom cheeks and were mildly rebuked by the United Queendom of India. If such worthies can see no harm in that despicable spectacle they made of themselves, why should we expect them to be able to do otherwise for India? A person who can't respect himself enough can not respect anything else, let alone the country.

Can anyone point to anything done by this government that can be hailed as a nationalist stance? On the other hand we all know MMS' peacenik tendencies.

The present bunch has failed to convince the country of what they are up to. And despite all possible good arguments that can be proffered for the deal, this one bothers people the most.

IMHO we can wait, till a next Bush clone ascends to presidency in USA. skies won't fall in the next 5 years. In fact as argued so convincingly by others, India's position will be even stronger then.


Satyarthi,

I think that is the way this deal is going I do not see any avenue for this govt to conclude the deal. it might actually be better for India to wait till next govt comes to power. Couple of years of delay would not have much material impact on us.

There may be a delay of 8 years or more if some one like Obama becomes the president which would have material cost in lost opportunity IMO.

Rest of the political stuff of congress party just sickens me to no end.

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Postby ramana » 15 Apr 2008 22:44

Katare wrote:
Raju wrote:China, North Korea are muslim countries ?

Countries names that are being mentioned do not necessarily align with US worldview. That is the reason for their names being singled out, and not observance of rules.


No Israel, they haven’t openly tested and none of the US president has any desire to antagonize Jews lobby in congress.

We have been living in a looser club of despotic/authoritarian countries led by ruthless thug(s) and juntas just because Pundit JLN didn't test the devise in time.

India having nukes doesn't really radically change US security threat analysis, most worrying factor for them is our nuke position and defiance (which is legal and justified) weakens the NPT/CTBT regime which is so central to US/western and even global security. Once they help us attain some sort of legal status among the nations of the world it becomes much more easier for them to focus on real trouble Childs and tin-pot dictators and Juntas.



No Israel, they haven’t openly tested and none of the US president has any desire to antagonize Jews lobby in congress.

In 1979 they tested covertly with the South Africans in the Indian ocean on a dark and stormy night. The Vela sat pics were obfuscated by the Carter Admin which is very pro-NPT! Current South African President Thabo Mbeki made the announcement after the ANC came to power in early 1990s about the SA and Israeli invovlement in that test. It was 0.2kt trigger.


We have been living in a looser club of despotic/authoritarian countries led by ruthless thug(s) and juntas just because Pundit JLN didn't test the devise in time.

The problem with Indians is if we understand theory we think the practicals are easy! India was second to none in Atomic Physics in the fifties despite any meaningful infrastructure to convert that into practicality.


India having nukes doesn't really radically change US security threat analysis, most worrying factor for them is our nuke position and defiance (which is legal and justified) weakens the NPT/CTBT regime which is so central to US/western and even global security. Once they help us attain some sort of legal status among the nations of the world it becomes much more easier for them to focus on real trouble Childs and tin-pot dictators and Juntas


This is correct. That is why India was allowed to walk away from NPT structure in 1968 and advised to stay away from the 1995 NPT extension conf. However Clinton Admin after getting NPT extended in perpetuity, thought they could go for broke and trap India into CTBT in 1996 and break the unwritten agreements with GOI from 1958. The diplomacy after the tests is to recognize the legitimacy of the Indian tests without breaking the NPT structure.
What MMS agreed was to not break the NPT structure. The structure will break if India tests and by keeping silent while the Hyde Act pushed the detonation clause, MMS govt agreed to keep the NPT structure. Yes the clause is subject to a review of the circumustances that led to such breakout but in effect it closes the Indian option to test. And MMS is not declaring India supreme national interest clause to test just as the NWS declared in the CTBT. So India has agreed to a lesser status. It is another matter that the terms might have been similar in case of NDA govt. but the fact is that this terms are being legitmized under this govt.

BTW I am ready to ban anyone irrespective of their membership standing if anyone indugles in name calling. PERIOD. This is not a threat but a fact.
Last edited by ramana on 15 Apr 2008 22:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Katare » 15 Apr 2008 22:47

Raju wrote:
Katare wrote:No Israel, they haven’t openly tested and none of the US president has any desire to antagonize Jews lobby in congress.


So wherever it is convenient for them, they can make exceptions without countries being bound in a legal framework. Extend the same facility for India as well, if they are so concerned on focusing on 'real trouble makers'.

After all this is the same country that framed evidence to attack and invade a sovereign nation. Nothing should be beyond realm of possiblity for them. bas thoda dil rakho aur kaam ho jayega.

India having nukes doesn't really radically change US security threat analysis,


that is your perception.



Yes it seems that way; India is not being treated as badly as Iran or NK for similar sins.

They are extending an India specific facility as recommended by you as unique as India and it's position on nuclear issues.

Israel might get in the soup if they openly test a nuclear devise or assert independence from US foreign policies.

Pakistan was protected illegally by presidential certification until they needed it in Afghanistan and than dumped it.

So it is a mix bag of laws, positions and interests for the sub-prime lot. The deal seems like a way out of this mess

And yes what ever I write subjectively is my perception and interpretation of the issues not the truth. And that holds true for everyone

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Postby Rampy » 15 Apr 2008 22:53

[quote="KatareYes it seems that way; India is not being treated as badly as Iran or NK for similar sins by USA.
[/quote]

Are you serious? :roll:

India is no Eiran or NK. US does not need Iran or NK in their side but they need India and its forces

Raju

Postby Raju » 15 Apr 2008 22:58

Katare wrote:
Yes it seems that way; India is not being treated as badly as Iran or NK for similar sins.

They are extending an India specific facility as recommended by you as unique as India and it's position on nuclear issues.


If that is the case, why bring in Hyde into the picture at all. After all US is past master at inventing and more importantly neglecting evidence whenever it suits it's purpose. So if India is a thorn, into their tackling the more 'troublesome issues' as you put it. Then simply do away with the contentious Hyde which openly states CRE as an intent. Adopt the strategy wrt Israel.

And yes what ever I write subjectively is my perception and interpretation of the issues not the truth. And that holds true for everyone


Not necessarily. A perception when held by a group of people becomes an opinion.

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Postby Katare » 15 Apr 2008 23:13

Rampy wrote:
Katare wrote:Yes it seems that way; India is not being treated as badly as Iran or NK for similar sins by USA.


Are you serious? :roll:

India is no Eiran or NK. US does not need Iran or NK in their side but they need India and its forces



Rampy,
I don't know how you read it but that was exactly my point. The international sys in absense of a potent global authority is grossly unfair and implemented based on deals, interests, relative strengths, domestic security analysis, treaties, global peace and what not.

Getting a good deal out of this kichdi is difficult and tiring but possible.


Ramana,

Thanks for the information on Israeli involvement with SA on testing and subsequent discloser by current SA President, I wasn’t aware of that.

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Postby Katare » 15 Apr 2008 23:35

Raju wrote:
Katare wrote:
Yes it seems that way; India is not being treated as badly as Iran or NK for similar sins.

They are extending an India specific facility as recommended by you as unique as India and it's position on nuclear issues.


If that is the case, why bring in Hyde into the picture at all. After all US is past master at inventing and more importantly neglecting evidence whenever it suits it's purpose. So if India is a thorn, into their tackling the more 'troublesome issues' as you put it. Then simply do away with the contentious Hyde which openly states CRE as an intent. Adopt the strategy wrt Israel.

And yes what ever I write subjectively is my perception and interpretation of the issues not the truth. And that holds true for everyone


Not necessarily. A perception when held by a group of people becomes an opinion.


Hyde or "an Act" is needed because we don't want back door entry, we tested ours openly and legally. We want a front door entry and legal status that is why USA would have to legalize it. We won't take the deal without domestic US law legalizing it and ratifying it in congress and senate. Without a law president is not authorized to legally/openly sign any deal with India on nuclear trade.

The contention is not law but some of the classes and way its written which appears highly restrictive and a death trap to some folks and like a Pass-Port (with VISA) to wonderland for others. Truth may be somewhere in the middle.

Raju ustad, I conceded that it’s my perception, opinion and whatever else you want it to be. What is your point in further picking it?

I am just curious how come only a group of people can hold an opinion and a single person can't?

Just to lighten up you a little
P.S. I am a big fan of Munaf Patel :lol:

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Postby John Snow » 16 Apr 2008 00:22

Calling duly elected Prime Minster of India.....


What duly elected? If you mean duly selected by Sonia G, then you are absolutely right, but unfortunately he lives on the gratis of Left, :), Na sonia ka na china ka.

Let him elected from his strongest constituency, shall we say Bastar in Uttarchal, we will bow to him.

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Postby Gerard » 16 Apr 2008 04:02

La vie en atom
The aims of the French nuclear power programme could not have been attained if France had not equally made the strategic choice of taking recourse to international cooperation for completing its ambitious nuclear programme by the necessary deadlines.
Today, it seems to us that India might also have to make, in turn, a policy choice of this kind. The Indian government wishes to raise significantly the share of nuclear power in national electricity production so that the country continues soaring socially and economically. This is a political orientation that France understands perfectly. This is why since 1998, France has spared no effort to make its international partners recognise India’s particularity.

Bernard Bigot is the French Commissioner for Atomic Energy

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Postby Anujan » 16 Apr 2008 04:12

Gerard wrote:La vie en atom
The aims of the French nuclear power programme could not have been attained if France had not equally made the strategic choice of taking recourse to international cooperation for completing its ambitious nuclear programme by the necessary deadlines.
Today, it seems to us that India might also have to make, in turn, a policy choice of this kind.
:eek:
Nothing against France: But It must have been very hard making that decision from the right side of NPT after being explicitly recognized as a NWS. Add to that the huge consequences of testing in 1996 on their economy that they had to endure. Not to add the uranium supply disruption did they endured during those bleak years of sanctions after the '96 testing.

Somebody tell Mr Bigot (yes that his name) that this India-France equal equal might go down better with SDREs if somebody recognizes India as NWS with associated privileges and removal of restrictions. No SDRE debates whether we should co-operate with Unkil, russie, motherland etc if they have technology we don't. The question is, do they want our bum in return.

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Postby Gerard » 16 Apr 2008 04:31

India-France equal equal might go down better with SDREs if somebody recognizes India as NWS with associated privileges and removal of restrictions.


All that is needed is one teeny weeny, itsy bitsy, minuscule change to a single character of the NPT treaty text. This will allow India to sign NPT and make irrelevant Hyde act and other non-proliferation legislation.

In article IX.3, replace a '6' by a '7'.

For the purposes of this Treaty, a nuclear-weapon State is one which has manufactured and exploded a nuclear weapon or other nuclear explosive device prior to 1 January 1967.
Last edited by Gerard on 16 Apr 2008 04:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Katare » 16 Apr 2008 04:49

John Snow wrote:
Calling duly elected Prime Minster of India.....


What duly elected? If you mean duly selected by Sonia G, then you are absolutely right, but unfortunately he lives on the gratis of Left, :), Na sonia ka na china ka.

Let him elected from his strongest constituency, shall we say Bastar in Uttarchal, we will bow to him.


Yeah, that's what makes him a weak PM, he is sorta like CMPM implementing CMP of UPA

Well I wrote a large reply to your comment of duly elected and indian parliamentary sys but than decided against posting it in the interest of keeping thread on rails. If you are interested in my response pl feel free to drop a line at rkatare at mmm dot com, I'll be happy to discuss this offline..

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Postby ShauryaT » 16 Apr 2008 07:48

Katare wrote:Hyde or "an Act" is needed because we don't want back door entry, we tested ours openly and legally. We want a front door entry and legal status that is why USA would have to legalize it.
Katare: There are other options on the table. Namely to take it slow, instead of full civilian nuclear cooperation.

This entire debate is rightly upon the type of entry, India seeks and what the US and its regimes are willing/able to accomodate today. There are many things that could be done, each with possiblity and caveates, none easy but firmly within the realm of possiblities and probablities. In each one, India would have had to pay some price, but my view is that the cumulative price would not have been as steep, if the process to full civilian nuclear cooperation were taken in steps.

- No objection to non NSG sourcing of Uranium: Price?
- Allow NSG countries to trade but not the US, due to its own laws but let others do: Price?
- Convince US executive to waive dual technology ban on items: Price?
- Defacto NWS type exemption in US law: Price?

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Postby Neshant » 16 Apr 2008 08:37

The only thing signing this treaty will bring is energy insecurity. Its also a backdoor for pushing through other measures to cap India's nuke program. Third its a means of selling over-priced goods to India perhaps at a low-balled cost but high life cycle cost (as Enron tried).

Large hydro electric dams are the best source of power in most cases. You'll notice how the western funded NGOs make a hue and cry about it everytime one is under construction.

They want to ensure developing countries like India and China don't make any progress on that front as Energy + Electricity + Water = Development.

Let us build out as many hydro dams as possible while the indgeneous nuke industry gets its act together. I hear that the 500 MW reactor being built will be mass produced once its initial design is perfected.

Having these sanction happy countries as 'partners' in anything is a big mistake. They have been trying their best to prevent India's development for decades. There is no reason to trust them now.

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Postby Anujan » 16 Apr 2008 08:46

Gerard wrote:All that is needed is one teeny weeny, itsy bitsy, minuscule change to a single character of the NPT treaty text. This will allow India to sign NPT and make irrelevant Hyde act and other non-proliferation legislation.


Coming to that, this is interesting (but nevertheless old news to Rakshaks I suppose)
Image
About 30 tests in 1989 and 20 in 1990 ! we should have sneaked in half a dozen of our own in '90 another half a dozen in '91, and then another in '92 you get the idea...

By now, we could be preaching to everyone about how testing is bad

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Postby SaiK » 16 Apr 2008 08:55

yeah.. ask that question to our Gandhi family and their stinking politics./sorry ot.

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Postby amit » 16 Apr 2008 09:08

Neshant wrote: Large hydro electric dams are the best source of power in most cases. You'll notice how the western funded NGOs make a hue and cry about it everytime one is under construction.

They want to ensure developing countries like India and China don't make any progress on that front as Energy + Electricity + Water = Development.

Let us build out as many hydro dams as possible while the indgeneous nuke industry gets its act together. I hear that the 500 MW reactor being built will be mass produced once its initial design is perfected.


Neshant,

You're spot on as regard hydroelectric power being the best source of electricity. And India has abundant hydro potential. However, there are some downsides.

One of them as you yourself mentioned is the opposition to large hydro projects. While the agitation by the Medha Patkar types have no logical basis what it can and will do, as it did in the case of Narmada, is delay the project and escalate the cost of construction.


And also, again irrespective of the Narmada Bachao Andolan type agitation, resettling literally lakhs of people who would be dispossessed of their home due to the catchments area is a real headache in a democratic country like ours. It's not as if we could just evict people like the Chinese did with the Three Gorges project. It can potentially be a logistical and legal quagmire.

Finally, there’s no denying that the Terai region is earthquake prone so that will have to be taken into account when planning a large dam as the big catchments can bring considerable pressure to bear on the mantle.

The idea of mini-hydro projects, propagated by many NGOs are really not economically viable. Also the biggest disadvantage of a hydro project is that it's location is limited by geography.

However, despite all these apparent hurdles we must energetically follow up on the hydro potential of India. But this can’t be to the exclusion of all other sources of energy, be it coal power/gas powered thermal plants, solar power and nuclear power.

India needed more energy like yesterday, not today, tomorrow or the next week. We’ve sat on our backsides procrastination for far too long. A combination of thermal, hydro, solar and nuclear is needed and we need to advance on four fronts simultaneously.

We can’t afford to have laggards and we need to deal with the nuclear issue ASAP. Whether we deal it via the nuclear deal or on our own is the moot question. But we can’t push it under the carpet and hope to fix the problem at a later date when we are supposedly stronger. A part of our strength will come from more electricity driving our economic engine.

JMT

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Postby amit » 16 Apr 2008 09:17

lakshmic wrote: About 30 tests in 1989 and 20 in 1990 ! we should have sneaked in half a dozen of our own in '90 another half a dozen in '91, and then another in '92 you get the idea...

By now, we could be preaching to everyone about how testing is bad



It would have been great if we had burst a few patakas then. However, if I remember correctly we were a bit preoccupied. A small matter of pledging our gold to tide over the balance of payment crisis.

:lol: :lol:

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Postby darshan » 16 Apr 2008 09:18

After seeing how UPA govt is embarrasing Indians over its handling of Tibet issue with Chinese guards on Rajpath, how can one not call somebody a rat? I think it would be to insult post of PM to associate MMS with that position.

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Postby amit » 16 Apr 2008 10:01

darshan wrote:After seeing how UPA govt is embarrasing Indians over its handling of Tibet issue with Chinese guards on Rajpath, how can one not call somebody a rat? I think it would be to insult post of PM to associate MMS with that position.


Darshan,

Chinese guards were on the streets of London, where they mandhandled demonstrators. On the streets of San Francisco and on the streets of Paris, where again they had a schuffle with demonstrators.

Now tell me are Gordon Brown, Nicolas Sarkozy and George Bush all rats?

Do note I've randomly taken the examples of Paris, London and San Francsico; the guards are going to be present/have been present in other cities through which the Torch is going to pass/ has passed.

Perhaps there are many reasons to call MMS a rat, I really don't know them all and god knows he's been called worse on this thread, including being equated with Night Soil.

However, I don't think the presence of Chinese guards on Rajpath during the Torch run is a valid reason to call MMS names. You could perhaps direct your anger to folks like Amir Khan who are running in the relay despite requests to show solidarity to the Tibetan by boycotting the run.

JMhumbleT

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Postby darshan » 16 Apr 2008 10:33

Oh my, I just heard N word in the same sentence as india on Boston Legal tonight.

@amit,
I did not want to reply but I thought why not.

As you said there are many examples to mention rat but to me somehow chinese guards on Rajpath matters more.

I did not see chinese guards at White House or English Parliament.
Rajpath symbolizes something. Hack, I would not want those guards on any street for that matter. And, just because rest of the world allowed something to happen does not mean India should too. I have my own dignity and I do not measure it with rest of the world.

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Postby svinayak » 16 Apr 2008 10:38

amit wrote:
lakshmic wrote: About 30 tests in 1989 and 20 in 1990 ! we should have sneaked in half a dozen of our own in '90 another half a dozen in '91, and then another in '92 you get the idea...

By now, we could be preaching to everyone about how testing is bad



It would have been great if we had burst a few patakas then. However, if I remember correctly we were a bit preoccupied. A small matter of pledging our gold to tide over the balance of payment crisis.

:lol: :lol:


Excuses and more excuses

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Postby amit » 16 Apr 2008 10:55

darshan wrote: I did not see chinese guards at White House or English Parliament. Rajpath symbolizes something.


Darshan,

I really regret responding to your first post and this one too, so my apologies.

But I would like to point out that the Chinese guards were on Champs-Elysées which is as revered by the French as Rajpath is by the Indians. And I don't see any information/plan of posting Chinese guards at the Indian Parliament or Rastrapathi Bhavan. However, it could be you're more well informed than me.

But what the heck MMS is condemned either way, when the jury, judge and executioner are rolled into one! I guess I need to STFU as many posters here have done.

Meanwhile have fun thinking up new and more inventive adjectives, India depends on you!

Cheers!

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Postby Sanku » 16 Apr 2008 11:56

amit wrote:Meanwhile have fun thinking up new and more inventive adjectives, India depends on you!


Not calling the behavior of an unelected PM of India exactly by the name for such a behavior only because that is not a polite and a good thing to do some how seems to me to be head in sand behavior; Denial never got any one any where.

Further India is India and not France; US or Timbuktu; last I remember France; US and other never had a border war with a backstabbing Chinese.

Losing the context is helpful in defending the indefensible but not wise or on the side of truth at all.

JMTs IMVHOs etc

Satyamev Jayate

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Postby Sanku » 16 Apr 2008 12:06

Katare wrote:I don't want to see an Indian getting arrested for shipping couple IC chips to India or domestic companies going great lengths to develop $100 part for $10Million for a total production run of 100 parts spread over a decade.


Katare -- If I may so; IMVHO (which is of course irrelevant to anything real too) your whole world view is hopelessly warped with a very very very low threshold for what is good for India. You are happy with bread crumbs so to say.

I dont care if a Indian or two gets arrested due to stupid laws in US; what I care about is that India does not need to IMPORT any stupid chips with such a low technology content at all. That way lies redemption.

At least we can keep our sights high. If we shoot for moon we may get there or we may fail; but if all we care for is crumbs from masters high table we sure as hell are not going to get to the moon.

This is basic reason you find the deal OK and many of those who do not find the deal OK do not.

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Postby JE Menon » 16 Apr 2008 12:41

Guys, is there any newsreport which says there will be Chinese guards running alongside the torch in India? Where did this info come from? I am curious, does anyone have any info on this - even word of mouth?

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Postby Sanku » 16 Apr 2008 13:02

JE Menon wrote:Guys, is there any newsreport which says there will be Chinese guards running alongside the torch in India? Where did this info come from? I am curious, does anyone have any info on this - even word of mouth?


JEM sir; there are tons and tons of news report on the same; I am surprised that you missed it out. One of the many links

India bristles at Chinese security for Olympic flame

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Postby SaiK » 16 Apr 2008 21:15

What is this govt going to do on the plans to take the torch on top of mt. everest /Kailas!. [curse a big avalanche]. We have to rat-tle this govt enough to get our opinion enough to make them know more about our choices.

We are like that onleee.. all things subliminal coming from top to bottom. I am not seeing any difference in terms of democratic feelings either. I am more attached to my culture, religion, family and citizenship than babooze.

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Postby Gerard » 17 Apr 2008 01:21


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Postby NRao » 17 Apr 2008 02:20


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Postby ShauryaT » 17 Apr 2008 07:05

NRao wrote:


So, is that a "No"?
It means the nuclear deal does not translate to votes either way for any party and hence, from a political view point, heavens do not have to fall.

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Postby SaiK » 17 Apr 2008 07:39

well.. it does.. it all depends on the damage they do. having a good deal might not have an effect on elections, but bungling a good deal, and screwing up our securing atmosphere can be disaster for our cunningraze.

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Postby NRao » 17 Apr 2008 07:41



The mp3 file for this can be downloaded from here (Save mp3). It is 75 Gb.

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Postby sraj » 17 Apr 2008 07:42

'Landmark' deal ends U.S. stalemate with Israel over nuclear reactor

Wednesday, April 16, 2008
TEL AVIV — Israel and the United States have signed an agreement on safety at a nuclear reactor in the Negev desert.

Under the accord, the United States would help Israel monitor and enhance its nuclear reactor at Dimona.


Officials said this marked the first direct U.S. aid for operation at Dimona, which has not come under inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

"This is a landmark accord and was heavily influenced by the U.S. nuclear agreement with India," an official said.

The Israeli-U.S. agreement, signed by U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission chairman Dale Klein and Israel Atomic Energy Commission director Shaul Horev, would help improve safety at Dimona, established around 1962.

Egypt has repeatedly complained of radiation leakage from the plant, said to produce and maintain Israel's nuclear weapons arsenal.

Under the accord, officials said, the Israel Atomic Energy Commission would gain access to U.S. nuclear safety technology and methods. They said the United States would reserve the right to restrict data and technology.

Officials said Israel has sought such an agreement for more than a decade. But the United States rejected Israel's appeals, citing the Jewish state's refusal to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

The turning point came in 2007 when the Bush administration signed an accord with India on nuclear cooperation. India has also refused to join NTP, sparking calls in Congress for the launch of U.S. nuclear cooperation with Israel as well.


How does this square with US domestic laws and NSG rules?

What implications does this have for our recently-initialled agreement with Russia for 4 reactors at Koodankulam?

ramana
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Postby ramana » 17 Apr 2008 08:42

Read the above news together with the Singhvi speech at Heritage. There is a move to bring together people into different camps. Notice the total absence of debate in the Dimona case. While IUCNA is not even on paper they are citing it to make alternate arrangements. What will they do once its signed and in place!

NRao
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Postby NRao » 17 Apr 2008 12:01

Unless there is some under the table dealing this US-Israeli "deal" is restricted to safety enhancements. It does not (I hope) deal with supply of uranium, newer techs for enriching or reprocessing. That is all on the surface.

Sanku
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Postby Sanku » 17 Apr 2008 12:14

NRao wrote:Unless there is some under the table dealing this US-Israeli "deal" is restricted to safety enhancements. It does not (I hope) deal with supply of uranium, newer techs for enriching or reprocessing. That is all on the surface.


Let the tech get to Israel -- I have a suspicion that if US does so it may actually end up with India one way or the other.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

hanumadu
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Postby hanumadu » 17 Apr 2008 12:57

amit wrote:
darshan wrote: I did not see chinese guards at White House or English Parliament. Rajpath symbolizes something.


Darshan,

I really regret responding to your first post and this one too, so my apologies.

But I would like to point out that the Chinese guards were on Champs-Elysées which is as revered by the French as Rajpath is by the Indians.


Amit, The french public were not exactly happy with Chinese gaurds of French soil. If you have such a low self esteem of India, it doesn't mean all Indians too should have a low self esteem.

My french colleague was pissed off with this and according to him, so are other french people.

--Ranadheer

sauravjha
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Postby sauravjha » 17 Apr 2008 16:24

Finally here. As i have written in the Pak-fa thread, I actually grew up with BR.

In any case I post as avatar on secret projects.


On a different note.

I visited Tarapore recently. Plant visit. Exquisite experience.


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