India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

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shiv
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by shiv »

Acharya wrote: What is not discussed here is that US has invested too much into sociology of Indian soceity and has been involved in the social engineering for a long time.
What is also not discussed is how that sociology is mostly unusable trash and it is up to us Indians to rewrite it.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by JE Menon »

>>Its interesting when India doesnt horizantally proliferate which means supply others then what is the non-proliferation goals for India unless its to ensure no further vertical proliferation? interesting prespective no?

Indeed, Ramana. The flip side of this is that, if we are not accommodated, then we do have the capability to proliferate horizontally and there is not much anyone can do about it... In other words, we have the capacity to inflict either real pain on our sham friends or champagne for our real friends. We have not done so because we haven't (yet) needed to do so. But no one will dare to try the Iran trick on us. They cannot afford it, because only capabilities can be assessed not intents based on past behaviour.

Pulikeshi,

You are dead on about the pigheadedness. Neither side will give much ground on their democratic traditions and not to mention a kind of arrogance. Neither will cede the moral ground, and both can keep arguing and splitting hairs indefinitely - on any issue. This is why, because there is so little room for outmoralising, it is much better to work together and share (as much as possible) the benefits that accrue :twisted:
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by CRamS »

ramdas wrote:NRaoji,

Are you claiming that we are denuking via this deal ? Is this an acceptable outcome according to you ? I too feel this deal is CRE. Then why is there very little noise about a sellout ? Do APJAK and AK agree with this denuking agenda ?
With all fairness to MMS, the de-nuking of India started post Pokran-II when Jassu bhai bent down on his knees and begged "My friend Strobe" for forgiveness. Thus, to begin with, India was lethargic at best in pursuing a nuke deterrant. Of course, then came MMS, installed as CEO of India, who has no interest in such matters in the first place, and US sensing an opportunity went for the kill through this deal. Thus, this deal only accelerates and instutionalizes the lackadaisacal nuke path that India was on in the first place. Furthermore, immediatly after MMS's 'victory', US greeted its 'strategic partner', India, with a huge cache of F-Sola gift to TSP terrorists so they don't loose heart in their terror campaign against India. Thus, US intentions are very clear, not only CRE of India, but lest India even attempt to get uppity in the future, it has made sure TSP & its terrorist apparatus dis-abuse India of any such notions.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by NRao »

Will respond in a while (very busy).

But, IF TSP is a 60 lb gorilla and India a 600 lb one, then the US is some 60 KTon. Someone who can even utter that they would pull out (no matter for how long - I suspect after pulling out they would have pulled in too) of NSG, has a dynamics of its own. The US is influenced by India (check out today's WSJ on WTO _ Nath is making a unilateral stand against US, EU (some 30 odd countries), China, Japan and Brazil. He has a filibuster going!! All by himself!)

But the dynamics in the nuclear side is rather different. It is not India centric, but India (IMHO) is the first one one the scene.

Also, I would like to de-use "denuking". I should not have used that word. It is FM control (for a start) ...... which will ultimately translate into denuking.

WIll post - most likely tomorrow.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

Acharya wrote: What is not discussed here is that US has invested too much into sociology of Indian soceity and has been involved in the social engineering for a long time.
Interesting. Is it possible that the entire India Shining, growing at double digits, Asian century has been hyped up by the West MORE than the reality of what is happening and what is possible? The expectations of economic growth are so high and so linear and so entrenched that signs of disruption of such fantastic growth can be (created and) used to control policy making. Shri Kakodkar's graph of projected energy requirement and hence the inability of 3-stage thorium cycle to ramp up could be an effect of this over hyping. Was BJP led into believing this and launching "India Shining"?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by svinayak »

:roll: Hello anybody home
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by svinayak »

shiv wrote:
What is also not discussed is how that sociology is mostly unusable trash and it is up to us Indians to rewrite it.
Until then it will be used by others against the Indians. As part of the deal US should have been asked to shut down all the south asia studies departments.
Last edited by svinayak on 25 Jul 2008 20:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

Acharya wrote::roll: Hello anybody home
Not sure what you mean by this?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by Rangudu »

Acharya wrote:
shiv wrote:
What is also not discussed is how that sociology is mostly unusable trash and it is up to us Indians to rewrite it.
Until then it will be used by others against the Indians. As part of the deal US should have been asked to shut down all the south asia studies departments.
By asking that we will look like fools. What we need is to do what China has been able to do more and more of late. They use Chinese businessmen to fund "projects" led by influential faculty in universities and subtly divert the academic community from within.

Before asking anything from US Govt regarding the South Asia studies people, GoI should first deny visas to the most influential people among them and then pick off people one by one. You offer them access and funding by patriotic NRIs and pretty soon, there will be a strong lobby to fight the propagandists from within their own departments.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

Per Rajiv Malhotra China, Japan and Korea fund their country studies using government money in US academia. Not just business men. According to him "India is the largest civilization whose study is driven from the outside". Indian govt does zero funding of India studies in US academia.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by ramdas »

NRaoji,

You say FM Control. Can you explicitly list what you think will happen to

1. Our current WGPu stockpile in the next 20 years

2. The PFBR at Kalpakkam. AK has said it will remain on the military side till 2020 at least, if not in perpetuity.

3. Reactors on the mil side - will they continue producing fismat till around 2020 ?

4. The other 3 FBRs that are to come up at Kalpakkam.

5. Our nuclear deterrent, and those of TSP,PRC and the rest of the P-5.

With these, even if the broader FBR program is curtailed, there will be enough fismat for the deterrent. Of course, energy self-reliance will never happen because of our addressing "proliferation concerns" this way. That will be a great loss.

Overall, what is your opinion on the deal ?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by ramana »

He is right. In the mid 90s the NRI community raised lots of money to fund India studies chairs at all the great utys in US- Columbia, Berekely, Stanford, UPenn and others like UCSanta Cruz. The speil at that time was such chairs would raise more favorable studies in the academia. I havent seen much and the community doesnt even know who the profs are! instead of creating an umbrella group to fund the cahirs the community leaders with money just wrote checks in their own names to get the chairs named after them and baad me jhaye India studies and sociology studies. Each millionare was vying with the others to get chairs named and it was quite cheap- ~ $1M at a State Uty and ~ $5M for an Ivy League. Reminds one of the old saying "fool and his money are soon parted" but then the folks had self and group before natioanl interests.

So rely in on NRI and businesses to fund such chairs is good but wont produce results. In the 90s BK wne to big Ambani and to create a foundation for the purpose fo creating an Indian cotrolled awarensss of India in the US. However Mukesh, who is Stanford grad, interjected that he doesnt see any benefit in such a funding of India studies for their business group as they dont plan on being in US. So what could have been done for a few hundred crores in the 90s will require much more in current times. The lesson is the business group has to be engaged in business in India and not just because they have money. They see no munafa as the guy said in "Guru".
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by Rangudu »

ramana,

I'm not saying just rely on private individuals. To the contrary, I call for a coordinated action between NRIs, GoI, former GoI officials and Indian corporate sector. Here's how it could work:

1. NRIs would fund studies, chairs etc.

2. GoI will deny visas to anti-India folks, especially those that push to exploit caste, regional and religious schisms.

3. Former senior GoI officials and Corporate India would reward those academics who are favorably disposed to India. Sponsor trips where you get to meet the PM or get access to sanitized areas of Indian govt archives etc.

Pretty soon you create a virtuous cycle wherein young academics would sense that they can research India related topics with $$ paid for and previously unimaginable access to GoI top levels, so long as they don't fall into the current establishment's traps. On the other hand, people who are anti-India will get the message that they will never be able to visit India, never get a penny from the new NRI funding sources and will always be out "scooped" by other academics.

Over time this will generate change in the "South Asia studies" departments.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by ramana »

R, I took the time to post all that to tell you NRI funding wont help as the issue boils down to quo bono? What is it in fo r them other thangetting a chair named after them. The NRIs didnt make their fortune doing business with India. On the contrary most of the folks I know funded and established US companies. Its only some of them are altruistic and lend their name to India causes. Unless the NRI makes his money from India there wont be an interest in promoting a poitive image of India through such studies.

As regarding 3., a reputed pro-deal scholar told me that GOI does not give audience to desi scholars. PERIOD. So being a desi India scholar expert is a sure road to poverty. The babus have the old fears of subversion from desi schoalrs. They think they can pull wool over the foreigners but not desis. Anyway lets see what happens. Meantime what Acharya is saying is true even if folks dont like his message.

As great a scholar as Caroll Quigley has said similar things and now Kevin Phillips is also saying the same.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

Some thoughts..

1) I think social engineering needs to be invested in like investment in nukes. It should be treated as a strategic weapon.

2) We Indians are only discovering now (past 2 decades) that this weapon is being used against us.

3) We are still in the mode of protecting ourselves against this weapon.

4) We need to develop this weapon (Whiteness studies, Han studies, African studies, Xtian studies, Islamic studies, Semitic studies etc.)

5) We need to use the weapon. We need to go the other extreme of "no first use" and do a "will use first".

Of course for all this the mind set needs to change.. we need to be victors rather than recovering losers.. will take time.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by ramana »

Krishna Menon found that out long ago and set up 18 area studies centers in 1950s at many utys all over India with the idea that when India needed experts there would be Indians available. The scheme got sabotaged by MEA and UGC. MEA/IFS refused to use any academic expertise nor even give projects to be studied at these centers. The UGC with its Left bias ensured that only commie type studies are conducted so that they are useless and when the economic crunch came some of these centers were shut down or merged.

The real problem is there is no penalty for sabotaging or hindering India only munafa-he-munafa.
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Post by SureshP »

Zakaria on CNN
Zakaria: Vote moves U.S. and India closer
Story Highlights
Vote of confidence for Indian leader keeps nuclear deal with U.S. in play
Zakaria says India vote means nation becomes a "recognized nuclear power"
India's closer ties to U.S. keep a check on China, he says
Zakaria says vote means India could move forward on economic reforms


Editor's note: Fareed Zakaria is a preeminent foreign affairs analyst and hosts "Fareed Zakaria: GPS" on CNN at 1 p.m. ET Sunday.

Fareed Zakaria says this week's India vote signals a potential huge shift in balance between powers in Asia.

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh won a vote of confidence this week, allowing his ruling party to keep in play a proposed nuclear partnership with the United States.

A loss also would have doomed a nuclear deal, announced in 2006 and signed by U.S. President George Bush and Singh a year ago, that would expand U.S.-Indian cooperation in energy and satellite technology.

The deal would give India access to U.S. nuclear fuel and technology for civilian nuclear power plants -- even though New Delhi, which tested nuclear weapons in 1974 and 1998, declined to join international nonproliferation agreements.

The leaders of India's two Communist parties have accused Singh of surrendering India's sovereignty to the United States with the deal.

CNN spoke to world affairs analyst and author Fareed Zakaria about this week's developments.

CNN: What does the confidence vote in India mean?

Zakaria: On the surface, nothing, because the government stays in power. But it's potentially a huge shift. The Congress Party now rules without the support of the Communist Party. The Communists have been a huge obstacle both on economic issues and the nuclear deal.

CNN: What does it mean for the nuclear deal?

Zakaria: India will now go forward with the deal negotiated with the United States. If all goes as expected, it will mean that India will become a "recognized nuclear power," in return for which its programs will be subject to some international scrutiny.

Some nonproliferation hardliners are opposed to the deal, but they don't seem to realize that these were the only terms under which India would have been willing to come inside the nonproliferation tent.

CNN: But India has nukes already, how does this make things different?

Zakaria: In economic terms it means that India will now have access to nuclear technology from around the world. In geopolitical terms it is a huge shift.

It marks the beginning of a new Asian balance of power, with India moving closer to the United States to keep a check on the growing power of China.

CNN: What will an Indian government without Communist Party support mean?

Zakaria: The government has the opportunity to jump-start economic reforms. Despite the sterling reputation of the current economic team, the Indian government has actually done almost nothing in terms of economic reforms.

Its term so far has been a huge wasted opportunity. Now it has a second chance. It could put in places economic reforms, spur growth and investment, and move India to a higher growth trajectory.

CNN: Will this make the U.S. and India get closer?

Zakaria: I think that's already happening. India and the U.S. have been getting closer. Getting rid of the Communists will make the government-to-government relationship stronger.

But there is also a society-to-society relationship that is becoming very deep.

Every week, some delegation of Indians visits America and vice-versa. These two countries seem to understand each other. They're large, messy, chaotic, multicultural democracies.
The wonder is it took them so long to find each other.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... indiavote/
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by Rkam »

Oxford's Indian history chair gets head after 3 yrs
14 Mar 2007, 0028 hrs IST, Rashmee Roshan Lal,TNN




OXFORD: Seven years after the Indian government's unprecedented £1.8 million gift to Oxford to create the University's first chair of Indian history and culture, the project is only just getting off the ground in a scandalous story of the NDA government's misjudged great expectations, mismanaged government grants and academic inertia at others' expense.

The chair was finally filled eight weeks ago after being vacant for nearly three years, raising questions about why the former NDA government and its successor, the UPA government, appear neither to have expected nor demanded a return on Indian money.

Though the new occupant of the chair, the earnest, erudite, utterly determined and charming professor of early modern Indian history Rosalind O'Hanlon has taken charge with an ambitious and "exciting" agenda for academic action, highly-placed Indian sources admit that even now, there is no guarantee of India recovering its generous investment any time soon with pioneering work on image-building through an Oxford view of history.

"The Indian bequest may seem generous to us but it is at least £3 million less than needed to properly fund such a chair," the sources told this paper.

When the then foreign minister Jaswant Singh announced the Indian endowment here in November 2000, he said the chair was the personal fulfilment of an old "dream".

But the generous Indian bequest got off to a creaky start by failing to appoint the first Oxford Indian history chair, S Subrahmanyam, for nearly two years after New Delhi handed the money over.

O'Hanlon and other senior Oxford academics in South Asian history, defend Subrahmanyam's record as chair, citing his work on "the early modern Indian period".



O'Hanlon, who insists she has "a scholarly agenda and not a right-wing cultural studies agenda" as suspected by some when the NDA broke new ground by instituting the chair.

She generously says she will continue in Subrahmanyam's footsteps "and neither of us have worked on Vedic glories".

But informed Indian sources suggest the first chair produced nothing of much consequence for the two years he notionally occupied the post, even as he spent much of his time at the UCLA in America.

Observers say it is shocking that there has been no significant demonstrable academic work from the chair in seven years, which could be relevant to the world's historical view of India and India's own understanding of its past.

They say this reinforces the impression of a shameful waste of Indian money at a time universities at home are struggling to find cash to survive.

The Indian history chair is only the third instance of any government, from anywhere in the world, funding a post at Oxford University.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by svinayak »

mayurav wrote:
Acharya wrote: What is not discussed here is that US has invested too much into sociology of Indian soceity and has been involved in the social engineering for a long time.
Interesting. Is it possible that the entire India Shining, growing at double digits, Asian century has been hyped up by the West MORE than the reality of what is happening and what is possible? The expectations of economic growth are so high and so linear and so entrenched that signs of disruption of such fantastic growth can be (created and) used to control policy making. Shri Kakodkar's graph of projected energy requirement and hence the inability of 3-stage thorium cycle to ramp up could be an effect of this over hyping. Was BJP led into believing this and launching "India Shining"?
What is the purpose of this post. SInce the discussion has moved on there was no need for this. This election political tactic was never the topic of the discussion.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

ramana wrote:Krishna Menon found that out long ago and set up 18 area studies centers in 1950s at many utys all over India with the idea that when India needed experts there would be Indians available. The scheme got sabotaged by MEA and UGC. MEA/IFS refused to use any academic expertise nor even give projects to be studied at these centers. The UGC with its Left bias ensured that only commie type studies are conducted so that they are useless and when the economic crunch came some of these centers were shut down or merged.

The real problem is there is no penalty for sabotaging or hindering India only munafa-he-munafa.
Thanks for the insight Ramana garu.

I would be surprised if the current scholars of area studies in the West are driven by anything other than munafa. Their whole society exists for munafa. But the problem is due to the economic standing of the West compared to India, they can provide more munafa than we can. Something like wealth condensation.. As you said only nationalists driven by love for their country and culture can reverse the situation.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by ramana »

mayurav, Please take some time to find the govt funding sources for the South Asia studies groups in US. They are not State Dept.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

Acharya wrote:
mayurav wrote: Interesting. Is it possible that the entire India Shining, growing at double digits, Asian century has been hyped up by the West MORE than the reality of what is happening and what is possible? The expectations of economic growth are so high and so linear and so entrenched that signs of disruption of such fantastic growth can be (created and) used to control policy making. Shri Kakodkar's graph of projected energy requirement and hence the inability of 3-stage thorium cycle to ramp up could be an effect of this over hyping. Was BJP led into believing this and launching "India Shining"?
What is the purpose of this post. SInce the discussion has moved on there was no need for this. This election political tactic was never the topic of the discussion.
Do you mean there was no need for this part?
Was BJP led into believing this and launching "India Shining"?
Or the entire post?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by svinayak »

Everything. It was a reply to my post. If it is not addressed to my post then you can remove my post.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

It is related to your post about social engineering of the Indian society by the US. The main idea from Kakodkar's presentation was that the 3-stage cycle cannot be bootstrapped fast enough to keep pace with growing electricity demand to maintain our economic growth. And I was wondering if we have been "socially engineered" to believe that our economic well being and social stability is dependent on maintaining "socially engineered" levels of economic growth and thus accept the nuke deal.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by svinayak »

mayurav wrote:It is related to your post about social engineering of the Indian society by the US. The main idea from Kakodkar's presentation was that the 3-stage cycle cannot be bootstrapped fast enough to keep pace with growing electricity demand to maintain our economic growth. And I was wondering if we have been "socially engineered" to believe that our economic well being and social stability is dependent on maintaining "socially engineered" levels of economic growth and thus accept the nuke deal.
Sorry it is not related and it is not relevant. If it is a flame bait then the admins will do the job. It is your call.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

Please be assured that it is not a flame bait. I learn a lot from your views and this insight is one of them.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by svinayak »

mayurav wrote:Please be assured that it is not a flame bait. I learn a lot from your views and this insight is one of them.
Dont use my post for your use.
Post your views independently - I might change my views tomorrow saying that "social engineering" is bogus. :wink:
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by enqyoob »

Rangudu:
Step 1: Write for BRM/SRR, the only journal that really matters when it comes to South Asian Affairs.

Seriously, the best way to swing the academic bandwagon to a new direction is to focus BOTH money and prestige to certain lines of thinking. We can't do the former, but we can do the latter. The former may come later, if the latter is established, and it is prestigious to be seen funding the prestigious.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

But saar, your post on social engineering in the context of the nuke deal is what sparked my thoughts. The use of your post was more of an acknowledgment.

And tomorrow if you change your views on social engineering then hopefully I can evaluate your new views and see what thoughts they will spark in my mind :)
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by svinayak »

ramana wrote:mayurav, Please take some time to find the govt funding sources for the South Asia studies groups in US. They are not State Dept.
There are other depts too in this funding. It has multi dimension support with a history going back to colonial days.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by svinayak »

mayurav wrote:
And tomorrow if you change your views on social engineering then hopefully I can evaluate your new views and see what thoughts they will spark in my mind :)
I might change my views in each post. Then how will you manage it. :D
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by Rangudu »

narayanan wrote:Rangudu:
Step 1: Write for BRM/SRR, the only journal that really matters when it comes to South Asian Affairs.

Seriously, the best way to swing the academic bandwagon to a new direction is to focus BOTH money and prestige to certain lines of thinking. We can't do the former, but we can do the latter. The former may come later, if the latter is established, and it is prestigious to be seen funding the prestigious.
Agreed. Will try to dedicate time to write something that befits an academic journal.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

Acharya wrote:
ramana wrote:mayurav, Please take some time to find the govt funding sources for the South Asia studies groups in US. They are not State Dept.
There are other depts too in this funding. It has multi dimension support with a history going back to colonial days.
Rajiv Malhotra's presentation said that the main government funding was from CIA and DoD. Apart from that Church groups and theological seminaries and foundations were the main non-govt funders.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

Acharya wrote:
mayurav wrote:
And tomorrow if you change your views on social engineering then hopefully I can evaluate your new views and see what thoughts they will spark in my mind :)
I might change my views in each post. Then how will you manage it. :D
Ah! I see the issue.. I will try to keep up with the edits :wink:
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by ramana »

All he is asking is to think and not follow anyone even him. Be self aware. Or as the actor said in the TV serial Chanakya: "Uthishta Bharata!"

Why you want to be follower when you should be a pathfinder?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by svinayak »

mayurav wrote:
Acharya wrote: I might change my views in each post. Then how will you manage it. :D
Ah! I see the issue.. I will try to keep up with the edits :wink:
I will be impossible since each sentence may have different views. :mrgreen:
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by mayurav »

Will try to be a pathfinder.. atleast no guru dakshina that ways :D
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by NRao »

ramdas wrote:NRaoji,

You say FM Control. Can you explicitly list what you think will happen to

.................................................

Overall, what is your opinion on the deal ?
From the Hyde Act Section 102, b):
(b) WITH RESPECT TO SOUTH ASIA.—The following shall be
the policies of the United States with respect to South Asia:
(1) Achieve, at the earliest possible date, a moratorium
on the production of fissile material for nuclear explosive purposes
by India, Pakistan, and the People’s Republic of China.
This moratorium is the first step IMHO.

Then far below:
(i) United States efforts to promote national or
regional progress by India and Pakistan in disclosing,
securing, limiting, and reducing their fissile material
stockpiles
, including stockpiles for military purposes,
pending creation of a worldwide fissile material cutoff
regime, including the institution of a Fissile Material
Cut-off Treaty;
(ii) the responses of India and Pakistan to such
efforts; and
(iii) assistance that the United States is providing,
or would be able to provide, to India and Pakistan
to promote the objectives in clause (i), consistent with
its obligations under international law and existing
agreements;
Granted these are "goals", they are in no way enforceable, but do provide the direction that the US for sure is headed in.

The West in general cannot afford another Khan trick.

On this deal, there is no doubt that India needs the uranium. However, as a mature and responsible state (as was admitted by Bush himself) she should have got a lot more.

But, I would suggest reading up on GNEP (or just google "GNEP India") and there is a clear path that the US had envisioned India following after 123 - GNEP. Just that they dropped talking about it in 2006ish or so.

IF (Big IF) India does subscribe to GNEP, that is pretty much the end of Indian efforts - she has already been designated a "recipient country - and by definition forgoes its right to reprocess. This was tied to the statement that Bush made: "America will work with nations that have advanced civilian nuclear energy programmes such as Great Britain, France, Japan and Russia to share nuclear fuel with nations like India that are developing civilian nuclear energy programs."

What will happen to Indian FM? Dunno. For sure there will be a tightening noose around India to give it up.

JMTs. Reading tea leaves.
Last edited by NRao on 25 Jul 2008 23:55, edited 1 time in total.
svinayak
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by svinayak »

mayurav wrote:Will try to be a pathfinder.. atleast no guru dakshina that ways :D


Now atleast this message is understood :mrgreen:
:roll: Hello anybody home
putnanja
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 23 July 2008

Post by putnanja »

Indian officials bracing themselves for U.S. draft on changes to NSG guidelines
Indian officials bracing themselves for U.S. draft on changes to NSG guidelines

Siddharth Varadarajan

Washington has so far not shared its plans with Delhi

Actual text is likely to be made available by Saturday

“If NSG imposes conditions, India will reserve the right to walk away”

New Delhi: In a sign of the uphill territory still left to traverse on the nuclear front, Indian officials are bracing themselves for a round of tough negotiations when the Americans finally share the text of their proposed amendment to the Nuclear Suppliers Group guidelines later this week.

A short draft comprising six paragraphs was circulated by the U.S. in March 2006 but it is believed to have undergone substantial revision in Washington since then. An unnamed State Department official was quoted in a recent report of the Congressional Research Service (CRS) as saying the new draft had deliberately not been circulated for fear that it would trigger fresh objections to the nuclear deal within India.

Though South Block is familiar with elements of the new draft, the actual text is only likely to be made available to New Delhi on Friday night or Saturday, officials told The Hindu on Friday.

Unconditional exemption

At previous meetings with the Indian side on the NSG issue, U.S. officials have taken the view that while they fully support India’s demand for an unconditional exemption from the NSG’s restrictive export guidelines, a number of European members of the 45-nation nuclear cartel are pressing for inclusion of conditions and restrictions.

Asked whether it was not rather late in the day to be receiving a copy of the proposed changes to the NSG guidelines, a senior official said India had been saying right from the outset that it would accept only a “clean, clear and unconditional” exemption. “There is nothing to negotiate. The last thing we wanted was to get stuck whittling down a huge list of conditions to something smaller. Instead, we are saying, ‘You know what we want, and that’s a text which is unconditional’,” the official added.
Trial balloons

Among the conditions that have already been floated as trial balloons by the U.S. in previous discussions with India are provisions for periodic review, Indian compliance with future NSG guidelines, a reversion of the ban in case India conducts a nuclear test explosion, and a ban on the sale of enrichment and reprocessing equipment.

India, say the officials, has no option but to stick to its guns. “If anything, the fierce debate and the trust vote that the Manmohan Singh government has just won demonstrate that the Prime Minister has absolutely no wiggle room,” said an official. “If the NSG imposes conditions, India will reserve the right to walk away.” Part of the problem are the mixed signals the Indian side has sent on what might and might not be acceptable to the government.

For example, India has maintained that its nuclear testing moratorium is a unilateral commitment and that the NSG rule change should not be conditional on it. While U.S. law may require the cessation of cooperation in the event of a nuclear test, the laws of other suppliers like Russia and France do not. Yet, in an interview to The Asian Age on April 9, Shyam Saran, the Prime Minister’s Special Envoy, said it was “unrealistic” for India to expect the NSG not to insist on a no-testing condition. This statement has since been seized upon by the Americans as evidence that India might be flexible on its demand for a clean exemption. In its May 20, 2008 report, the CRS quoted Mr. Saran’s statement to speculate that “New Delhi may be willing to accept some conditions” on the NSG exemption front after all.
New rules

Though the NSG was set up in 1975 to tighten the rules of nuclear commerce in the wake of India’s 1974 nuclear test, its guidelines did not prohibit nuclear sales to India until 1992. That year, new rules were adopted stipulating that the export of so-called “trigger list items” could be made to non-nuclear weapon states only if all their nuclear activities were under safeguards.

Under the terms of the July 18, 2005 India-U.S. agreement, Washington is committed to working with its friends and allies to “adjust international regimes to enable full civil nuclear energy cooperation and trade with India.” New Delhi maintains that this means the NSG must unconditionally waive the applicability of its full-scope safeguards rule to India and not impose any other extraneous conditions.

India also objected to a prescriptive clause in the March 2006 NSG guideline draft which said members would “continue to strive” for the “earliest possible implementation” of full-scope safeguards in India.
Fear of U.S. vendors

In Congressional testimony, U.S. officials have assured legislators that they would oppose the adoption of NSG guidelines which would place U.S. firms at a disadvantage vis-a-vis competitors. The fear of U.S. vendors is that since their nuclear exports to India would be governed by the NSG guidelines as well as the more restrictive provisions of the Hyde Act and the 123 Agreement, New Delhi should not be able to send its business to countries with less restrictive national rules.
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