India nuclear news and discussion

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Sep 2008 21:38

Its clear, as it has always been, what Unkil gets out of this deal:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/world ... india.html

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Saturday hailed the international group’s decision.

“It’s a really very big step forward for the nonproliferation framework,” she told reporters traveling with her on a tour of North African countries, Reuters reported.

India plans to import at least eight 1,000 megawatt nuclear reactors by 2012, according to the United States State Department. Even if the United States wins bids for just two of these reactors, the deals would create 3,000 to 5,000 direct jobs and 10,000 to 15,000 indirect jobs in the United States, the State Department has said.

What is India's net gain?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Sep 2008 21:39

{P4,India} have a congruent interest in seeing a curb on the growing power of {P1,assorted rogues}

it seems we can buy the same type of 1500MW GE reactors on which PRC was crowing about in
a multi billion deal last year. Areva and Rosatom will also be in town like tomorrow to offer even
better 2000MW pressure cookers.

btw did anyone notice in TV footage the female admin assistant/official types accompanying
the big boys in and out of the venue were the most comely collection of babuammi's yet seen.
people of great power always seem to surround themselves with apsaras.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 06 Sep 2008 21:39

The INC will get a new ally to fight Indian elections, the might of the US Government.

You mean to say the unkil, chinis, saudis and vatican have not been fighting Indian elections?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Sep 2008 21:40

Now, China wants equal treatment for TSP

China expressed concerns about the deal being 'a blow to international non-proliferation'. How can those objections go away if TSP is given a similar treatment ?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 06 Sep 2008 21:41

Despite Canada's perfidy, a couple of AECL ACR-1000s should also be in the mix. Exposure to the latest (and perhaps last) CANDU will surely be instructional. Plus the fuel supply does not rely on enrichment capability.

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 06 Sep 2008 21:43

Menon Ji
I hope and pray to our lord-let this 123 agreement become the Kafan for commies and there should be no Nuke Power Plant in West Bengal, Tata should pull out of Bengal also.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Sep 2008 21:44

Singha wrote:
btw did anyone notice in TV footage the female admin assistant/official types accompanying
the big boys in and out of the venue were the most comely collection of babuammi's yet seen.
people of great power always seem to surround themselves with apsaras.

Any links or youtube on the TV coverage

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Sep 2008 21:45

sunilUpa wrote:
"It is also China's hope that the NSG would equally address the aspirations of all parties for the peaceful use of nuclear power while adhering to the nuclear non-proliferation mechanism," he said, apparently alluding to Pakistan's repeated attempts to get a civil nuclear deal with the United States, similar to the Indo-US agreement.
why discriminate against Xerox Khan..we are all for free trade onlee...

linky

Lets wait till the euphoria dissipates, there will be a 123 for TSP too. And you heard it from me first.

. Plus, something for sure (IMO) that MMS promised to Unkil/TSP on the Kashmir front.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 06 Sep 2008 21:45

Getting the big 4 world powers to lobby for India, marks Indias importance on the world stage.

By dingeling a massive market of over 100 nuclear power plants, India has managed to bypass one of the strongest international legislations ever created.

Without the Indian market, the big 4 would be surpassed by the chinease. Wihout the chinease threat, India would not have managed this.

saip · Post by **saip** » 06 Sep 2008 21:46

I cant wait to see the reaction of Madame Jilebi!

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 06 Sep 2008 21:47

Acharya wrote:
Singha wrote:
btw did anyone notice in TV footage the female admin assistant/official types accompanying
the big boys in and out of the venue were the most comely collection of babuammi's yet seen.
people of great power always seem to surround themselves with apsaras.
Any links or youtube on the TV coverage

linky

live webcast from NDTV.

NSA cutting no corners wrt to Chinky reaction...very candid indeed..

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 06 Sep 2008 21:52

Baljeet said How this deal was approved it just shows the prowess of Unkil. It is amazing to see the single minded focus of Unkil's determination to make it happen. We all may not like Unkil for whole lot of reasons or like him for whole lot of reasons that is an individual choice but Unkil has undoubtedly earned the respect of Indians from all spectrum.

Many folks underestimate the US. After India's independence.. Roosevelt et al wanted to help India. But Nehru et al was scared of the US..and went on to behave like what NZ and Austria is doing today. Act bigger than their real power position and was becoming a "moralistic" pipsqueak nuisance on the world stage. That's why the US didn't want anything to do with India. It prefered dealing with countries like China and even Pakistan looking past India.

Manny

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 06 Sep 2008 21:52

CRamS wrote:
sunilUpa wrote: why discriminate against Xerox Khan..we are all for free trade onlee...

linky
Lets wait till the euphoria dissipates, there will be a 123 for TSP too. And you heard it from me first. . Plus, something for sure (IMO) that MMS promised to Unkil/TSP on the Kashmir front.

If China can deliver a 123 to TSP, hats off to them. Other than that I don't want to read tea leaves wrt Kashmir.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 06 Sep 2008 21:52

SSridhar wrote:Now, China wants equal treatment for TSP

China expressed concerns about the deal being 'a blow to international non-proliferation'. How can those objections go away if TSP is given a similar treatment ?

With their own Pak origin Xinjian problem, the Chinease have their concern. Pakistan is not getting a simmilar deal. The statements are made to console the TSP. Not even the chinease are serious about it.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 06 Sep 2008 21:53

Now. After US Congress approval, what happens with the MMRCA contract? Can anyone say 126 F/A-18Gs? Perhaps Boeing should put out some illustrations of the with IAF roundels!

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 06 Sep 2008 21:58

Mort Walker wrote:Now. After US Congress approval, what happens with the MMRCA contract? Can anyone say 126 F/A-18Gs? Perhaps Boeing should put out some illustrations of the with IAF roundels!

I'd like some F-18 Super Hornets in the IAF and hopefully some AESA radars with it! It would be nice to see some F-18 / SU-30MKI combo at work!

India may decide to do Military hw business with the US and Nuke business with France and Russia.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 06 Sep 2008 22:00

Baljeet,

Boss, precisely the opposite. We need there to be several nuclear power plants in West Bengal, and we need the Nano factory to start producing there. That will be true victory. There is no room for vindictiveness, as it lowers our nation. And with West Bengal suffering, will India be strong? It cannot. We need West Bengal not merely to survive, but to thrive.

rocky · Post by **rocky** » 06 Sep 2008 22:03

JEM is right. We lost West Bengal to the idiots about 150 years ago. Need to show them the capitalist path to realize the prosperity the rest of India is witnessing. The remaining NE states will follow West Bengal

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 06 Sep 2008 22:07

I feel there's no real need to give effusive thanks to Uncle etc. Just statements like 'We would have appreciated full NWS status in the first place, however due to constraints in the process we are presently satisfied at the present stage in the current process. TO get here we would like to Thank the US and blah blah.." Sort of psy ops and gratefulness at the same time..JMT.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 06 Sep 2008 22:08

NSG decision to impact border talks with China

Very interesting read...please read the full story, headlne may mislead you.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Sep 2008 22:12

With this NSG (tamasha) declaring India passed the Test, we are now AMIE.
Next help Vietnam achieve civil nuclear program, and that will make us MIE ( equivalent to PE).
If lizard says one word about TSP 123, we say Vietnam 123. we need to make money with our dated older designs to finance the new technology, like every NSG member does.

One(under) hand selleth, the other hand payeth.

Spinster

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 06 Sep 2008 22:17

NSG decision to impact border talks with China

Just read the artlicle. Now the Chinese are saying that hey we helped you win at the NSG.. thats how good friends we are and lets settle Arunachal, Sikkim, Bhutan etc..(all ofcourse in Panda's favor )..Hey and before you forget the favor we've done for you at the NSG, also we will discuss Dalai Lama and more.

India also must learn something about bargaining chips from Panda.

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 06 Sep 2008 22:18

Manny wrote:Baljeet said How this deal was approved it just shows the prowess of Unkil. It is amazing to see the single minded focus of Unkil's determination to make it happen. We all may not like Unkil for whole lot of reasons or like him for whole lot of reasons that is an individual choice but Unkil has undoubtedly earned the respect of Indians from all spectrum.

Many folks underestimate the US. After India's independence.. Roosevelt et al wanted to help India. But Nehru et al was scared of the US..and went on to behave like what NZ and Austria is doing today. Act bigger than their real power position and was becoming a "moralistic" pipsqueak nuisance on the world stage. That's why the US didn't want anything to do with India. It prefered dealing with countries like China and even Pakistan looking past India.

Manny

Manny you bring a good point, it was nehru who went running to USA for money after the second 5yr plan failed miserably and asked USA for $2 Billion. On US part, it was the era of McCarthyism, USA only gave India $200 Million. We can debate about it forever but the point I am making is anytime India is in financial crisis she has run to western countries for assistance and when her stomach was full she sided with russians. Even in 1990's balance of payment crisis we put collateral of 70 tonnes of gold for $10Billion or some amount to avert the crisis it would not have happened if Washington has not given the nod.
I Just watched the link provided in above post, this Idiot Ravi Shankar Prasad is the biggest Idiot I have seen world over on national TV who can't have a civil debate. He keeps changing his source from one to the other within few minutes. The problem with BJP and Congress is instead of joining hands and saying
it was the bipartisan effort of two prominent political parties that has ended the apartheid of Indian Nuclear Programme, they are bickering over who should get the brownie points. This is the time for Statesman and larger than life politician to come on the center stage, whoever does it first will become the leader of this nation. This is the opportunity for Advani and MMS to rise above petty politics, come together on national stage and make a statement that we may have different idealogies but we are united to serve the national interests of India.I know it is a wishful thinking but we can all dream sometime.......

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 06 Sep 2008 22:24

Bush calls Manmohan, discusses next steps for n-deal

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 06 Sep 2008 22:25

JE Menon wrote:Baljeet,

Boss, precisely the opposite. We need there to be several nuclear power plants in West Bengal, and we need the Nano factory to start producing there. That will be true victory. There is no room for vindictiveness, as it lowers our nation. And with West Bengal suffering, will India be strong? It cannot. We need West Bengal not merely to survive, but to thrive.

Mennon Ji
In broad scheme of things I agree but in vindictive mind set, I am inclined to punish the commies any chance I get. I am all for taking a high road but when it comes to Pakis and Commies, I just want to round them up, force them to dig ditches and then bury them in it. My only concern is about the innocent people who are trying to make an honest living--they will become collateral damage.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Sep 2008 22:26

Baljeet ji said

"...the point I am making is anytime India is in financial crisis she has run to western countries for assistance and when her stomach was full she sided with russians. Even in 1990's balance of payment crisis we put collateral of 70 tonnes of gold for $10Billion or some amount to avert the crisis it would not have happened if Washington has not given the nod.

"As a true captalist, I always love recession and distress sales, because I can cherry pick bargains" Spinster

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 06 Sep 2008 22:28

Everybody is talking about giving nuclear reactors to vietnam, but do they want the reactors ? Why do they want to deteriote their relations with their bigger neighbour, when they are on the path to their own economic success? If they want them, wouldn't unkle gladly help them.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 06 Sep 2008 22:29

SSridhar wrote:Now, China wants equal treatment for TSP

China expressed concerns about the deal being 'a blow to international non-proliferation'. How can those objections go away if TSP is given a similar treatment ?

BOTH are proliferators. This is, also, a threat to do so if NSG does not provide a waiver for TSP. However, TSP should have ground itself into the ground by then.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 06 Sep 2008 22:33

I am afraid to venture on this thread...

But can someone please clarify these issues (the statements so far have been confusing):

If fuel supply to a safeguarded facility is interrupted for whatever reason (not necessarily a test) and it is fueled by indigenous supply, is that facility still safeguarded? I recall that AK had said "no", but is there ambiguous language on this? What does the agreement with IAEA say?
Does India have access to ENR technologies after the NSG waiver?

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 06 Sep 2008 22:37

JE Menon wrote:Baljeet,

Boss, precisely the opposite. We need there to be several nuclear power plants in West Bengal, and we need the Nano factory to start producing there. That will be true victory. There is no room for vindictiveness, as it lowers our nation. And with West Bengal suffering, will India be strong? It cannot. We need West Bengal not merely to survive, but to thrive.

Whatever is happening in WB and Kerala is due to their own culture and their own doing, They need to own up to their own mess.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Sep 2008 22:43

yvijay wrote:Everybody is talking about giving nuclear reactors to vietnam, but do they want the reactors ? Why do they want to deteriote their relations with their bigger neighbour, when they are on the path to their own economic success? If they want them, wouldn't unkle gladly help them.

When uncle has Taiwan to do the required why would he help Vietnam?

It is in Vietnam's interest to co exist peacefuly with its neighbors, therefore need peaceful nuclear energy. It is no different than what Panda does to TSP for peaceful motivation to co exist with its bigger neighbor. Thats about it.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 06 Sep 2008 22:44

Tanaji wrote:[*]If fuel supply to a safeguarded facility is interrupted for whatever reason (not necessarily a test) and it is fueled by indigenous supply, is that facility still safeguarded? I recall that AK had said "no", but is there ambiguous language on this? What does the agreement with IAEA say?

It will still be safeguarded. As for indigenous supply, India has been unable to provide enriched fuel for TAPS 1+2 due to limited enrichment capacity (need to fuel the ATVs etc). If it can't supply TAPs 1+2 (210MW de-rated to 160MW), how will it possibly supply a bunch of 1000MW LWRs?

[*]Does India have access to ENR technologies after the NSG waiver?

It does not appear that the NSG waiver prohibits this. There may be an informal understanding between supplier nations however (motivated by their desire to avoid competition for international enrichment services) to restrict access.

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 06 Sep 2008 22:54

John Snow wrote: When uncle has Taiwan to do the required why would he help Vietnam?

It is in Vietnam's interest to co exist peacefuly with its neighbors, therefore need peaceful nuclear energy. It is no different than what Panda does to TSP for peaceful motivation to co exist with its bigger neighbor. Thats about it.

I understand that vietnam require the peaceful nuclear energy for its security. But did they openly say about it or atleast indicated that they want the reactors. In pakistan case, we know that they would have begged or gone to any extent to acquire it, just to prick India. Do vietnam want to do same to the china(even if you couch them in euphemisms like peaceful energy etc, every body knows its not the case)?

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 06 Sep 2008 22:57

Gerard wrote:It does not appear that the NSG waiver prohibits this. There may be an informal understanding between supplier nations however (motivated by their desire to avoid competition for international enrichment services) to restrict access.

It is, if we understand the full nature of 3C and 3D, of the revised draft.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 Sep 2008 23:04

As I intimated the US played nasty, but did the six really expect they would be in any position to object to this deal? They have only embarrassed themselves.

I just love that description of silence at the conclusion of the consensus. The most telling remark reprted was of course "NPT RIP". That is what this is all about.

It was foreseeable that China would hide behind New Zealand's skirts, this is a definite loss of face.

Pakistan is irrelevant.

An apology from those who have abused MMS might not be a bad idea.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Sep 2008 23:08

vietnam is booming and in the early stages of being pulled into western orbit as
the next south korea.

the best way to deal with the chipanda is not through unpredictable activities of
that nature but good old conventional arms sales, political influence peddling,
free trade with ASEAN (almost done), open economic collaboration to increase our
mindshare. chipanda has 10X the trade we do with ASEAN.

and military a strong and ruthless posture on the border.

I am visiting thailand shortly and they allow indians (and chinese) visa on arrival
facility ..for 15 nations. also unilaterally they have waived visa for 40 richer
countries to attract the tourist dollars. ofcourse TSP is not on either merit list

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Sep 2008 23:13

Ok no lungi dance as Adminullahs have said , we do have a way to test (the waiver.)

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 06 Sep 2008 23:19

When will the draft be made public.

I for one am extremely happy today. I am happy for the GoI team and the principal opposition BJP, for they took the first steps in this regard and also played a fine opposition. I cant say its scripted, but as JEM said, it played it part very well. This is definitely a fine democracy. Every voice gets heard, without having to wolly about leeducation camps.

This is just the gate being unlocked, no time to let the guard down. Sheilds up and onward. I'll say again, whether the situation is a business plan in a garage or a boardroom, the best course is always one of action. Getting paralyzed into inaction by fear of the unknown is the surest path to failure.

SO Pulikeshi ji, what becomes of trishanku now?

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 06 Sep 2008 23:22

Did some1 specify "NO-LUNGI" dances?

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Sep 2008 23:25

narayanan wrote:Did some1 specify "NO-LUNGI" dances?

Post subject: India nuclear news and discussion - 1 sep 2008Posted: 01 Sep 2008

Forum Moderator

Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 3213 The last thread has gone to the trashcan

i had started the last thread by saying:

Quote:
No politics
No whines or celebratory lungi dances
Wonleee nook noos pliss.

I will add to that: Please stop insulting each other.