India nuclear news and discussion

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RajeshA
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by RajeshA »

To call an Indian Law stating Indian's view of the Nuclear Deal as simply an expression of "sound and fury" is demeaning the highest institution in the country.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by NRao »

We have the right to test and they have the right to respond. What is so problematic about that?
This from J-18:
The Prime Minister {that is MMS} conveyed that for his part, India would reciprocally agree that it would be ready to assume the same responsibilities and practices and acquire the same benefits and advantages as other leading countries with advanced nuclear technology, such as the United States.
The argument that India is getting Uranium in the interim is a non-starter. The whole exercise was to get rid of ANY and EVERY shackles. These deals do not achieve that. Granted India will get Uranium.

On India tying up with "other" countries, India needs to get out of that childish thinking. India can be on her own and needs to be on her own. It is Indian thinking that is shackling herself in this respect.

Added later:

Let me put it this way, IF the US can proliferate and get away, then India should be able to proliferate and get away.

IF the US CAN test, India CAN test.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by AnantD »

Niranjan:
It is never as simple as that. A simple travel advisory would still be enough. The ONLY way out is for India to get self sufficient SOON. Else India will always be at the beck and call.

Even with these poison pills India still has a chance to break loose. But, an un-fragmented India needs to move. What is testing alone going to do? An India with a tested deterrent is not strong enough.
I think we are both saying the same thing. My comment was "If India has..blah blah .. can test all it wants"

I think if they issued a travel advisory for say the "delhi phatakas" I would take their "advice and still travel, and so would a lot others. The last time they claimed India TSP were going to exchange Nukes, or something like that. A lot of things the US does, sanctions were one, hurt US interests more (quantitatively) but they could afford it easier. This won't last long, imagine a 700 B bailout going on right now. You and I know that you can only print money so long. Its a real shortage of real assets with so much flowing out to China, ME etc., wars, etc.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Gerard »

India open for $80 billion in nuclear business
"If a deal with Congress doesn't happen, we will have business with other countries. So simple," said SK Malhotra, a spokesman for India's Department of Atomic Energy.
Today, India gets just 3 percent of its energy_about 4,100 megawatts_ from nuclear power. By 2032 the government plans to quadruple total generating capacity, to 700 gigawatts, with nuclear accounting for 63,000 megawatts. That adds up to about 40 new nuclear reactors, worth some $80 billion, according to Jain.
"All reactors are going to be sourced from foreign vendors and tied to fuel supply agreements," Jain said.
Jain says Nuclear Power Corp. hopes to finalize contracts with GE, Westinghouse Electric Co., France's Areva group, and Russia's Rosatom State Nuclear Energy Corp. to build a first round of eight reactors starting in 2009. The government, he added, plans to take a 30 percent equity stake in the new reactors, and borrow to raise the rest.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Arun_S »

HT: Rice to visit India next month to wrap up N-deal
New York, September 26, 2008

With the nuclear deal poised for an approval by the US Congress, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will visit India next month to sign the 123 bilateral agreement that will seal the landmark deal.
"We are discussing the possibility of the visit of the Secretary of State to India. We have been trying it for sometime and looking for possibility of dates," Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon told reporters on Thursday night after talks between US President George Bush and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

"Rice will come to India early next month. If the Congress approves the 123 pact, it will be signed during Rice's visit," an official, privy to nuclear negotiations, told IANS.

The India-US 123 pact, the bilateral accord that set terms for nuclear business between the two countries, will be signed by External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee and Rice.

Rice could not make it to an exclusive dinner Bush hosted for Manmohan Singh and his close aides on Thursday at Old Family Dining Room in the White House as she was working overtime to swing Democrats to expedite Congressional approval for the nuclear civilian agreement.

The US House of Representatives is poised to take up an approval resolution on Friday that could lead to the Congressional approval, which will effectively finalise the deal.

The Congress is scheduled to break Sep 26 for the Nov 4 elections, but indications are that the two chambers may work through the weekend and maybe even into Monday to deal with the Bush administration's $700 billion bail-out plan to save the US financial system from its worst crisis in decades.

The Bush administration is also working overtime to ensure that the India nuclear accord is wrapped up by the time Manmohan Singh concludes his five-day visit to the US Saturday.

In his talks with Mammohan Singh at the White House, Bush assured the Indian prime minister that his administration was "working hard to get the deal passed as quickly as possible".

He also underlined that Washington wanted the deal to satisfy New Delhi - a veiled reference to some contentious provisions in the bill which are being opposed by India.

The bill introduced on Thursday by House Foreign Affairs Committee chairman Howard Berman, like the Senate Committee version, makes the implementing 123 Agreement subject to the provisions of the Atomic Energy Act, the Hyde Act and any other applicable US law.

But contrary to the general impression, there is no reference to "testing" except by implication in either bill. India has maintained that it is only bound by the 123 agreement and does not comment on internal political process in another country.

As the Senate version is slightly different, the upper chamber too didn't vote on the measure on Thursday, apparently waiting for the final House version to emerge.

If the two passed versions are not identical, a select committee would have to meet in a "conference" to reconcile them before Bush can sign in it into law.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Katare »

I was misled into beleiving that US congress would only do a up/down vote on the deal. I didn't realize that they still have options to put riders, conditions and expressions. If they put any of this India should tell USA in clear words that the contracts would clearly stste that any conditions on supplies/testing by any govt would automatically disqualify their companies.


As far as I am concerned the deal is done, what US congress would do now would only harm US part of the deal. :evil:
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Gerard »

NSG waiver proof of benign global environment: PM
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Wednesday said India stands on the threshold of a "new beginning" and the recent NSG waiver in the field of nuclear energy is proof of a "benign global environment". :eek:
"There is unprecedented self-confidence in our people that we can overcome the constraints in our development. I have often said that the world wants India to do well," he said.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Gerard »

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,428682,00.html
The agreement looked stalled in the Senate after at least one lawmaker anonymously blocked a bill to approve the deal from reaching a vote, according to congressional aides
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Gerard »

Australia to host first nuke talks
"One of the things this commission must focus really hard on doing is finding solutions that can actually work for the three elephants that are outside the room, that is India, Pakistan and Israel," Mr Evans said.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by NRao »

Gerard wrote:Australia to host first nuke talks
"One of the things this commission must focus really hard on doing is finding solutions that can actually work for the three elephants that are outside the room, that is India, Pakistan and Israel," Mr Evans said.
Sure. With perpetual Uranium supply. Perhaps.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by AnantD »

[quote][http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,428682,00.html

Quote:
The agreement looked stalled in the Senate after at least one lawmaker anonymously blocked a bill to approve the deal from reaching a vote, according to congressional aides/quote]

US Citizens: remeber this: vote Republican in perpetuity. The Democrats are the biggest slimeballs, no matter what they say, its BS. They last minute moves in Congress were by some Democratic cowards who did not want their names known. Well, atleast we all know which party they belong to.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Mort Walker »

Can anyone get more information? This HAS to be public information. Who was the senator?
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by NRao »

anonymously
Even the politician does not know he voted against it!!

He pressed the wrong button - anonymously.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by sraj »

FT news item
Howard Berman, chairman of the House foreign affairs committee, agreed to introduce the Senate bill - instead of a similar measure he had proposed - in a decision that erased need for both chambers to agree. But he put it on a fast-track course needing a two-thirds rather than simple majority.

"I agreed to this request because Secretary of State Rice made a personal commitment to me that - in a change of policy - the US will make its highest priority at the November meeting of the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) the achievement of a decision to prohibit the export of enrichment and reprocessing equipment and technology to states that are not signatories of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty."
GoI has been forewarned. Need to get ENR equipment and technology explicitly into the Russia, France, and other agreements, and make sure all of these are fully signed ASAP.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Philip »

No disprespect to our parliament intended,but whatever we say or do is indeed going to "signify nothing" because the US will play by its rules no matter what we pass,and we will be penalised in some manner or the other even to the extent where the US will pressurise the NSG suppliers to stop N-trade with India! The US was able to presssurise the NSG in favour of India,what's there to stop it from getting the NSG to stop N-trade with us later?Why can't you read the plain English in the US's "diktat"? Ultimately,where will that leave us,to be bracketed with N.Korea and Pak at a future date after we test again (which given N.Korea's latest surprise to resume its N-programme never forgetting that N.Korea and China are partners in Pak's nuclear and missile programmes,part of the Sino-NK-Pak-Saudi axis. ) as a"rogue state"? The recent Sino-Pak nuclear talks will also evolve into an open-ended deal for Pak to access whatever nuclear tech,weapon designs,etc. that it wants,as China treats Pak as I said before as a branch of its armed forces.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by RajeshA »

sraj wrote:FT news item
Howard Berman, chairman of the House foreign affairs committee, agreed to introduce the Senate bill - instead of a similar measure he had proposed - in a decision that erased need for both chambers to agree. But he put it on a fast-track course needing a two-thirds rather than simple majority.

"I agreed to this request because Secretary of State Rice made a personal commitment to me that - in a change of policy - the US will make its highest priority at the November meeting of the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) the achievement of a decision to prohibit the export of enrichment and reprocessing equipment and technology to states that are not signatories of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty."
GoI has been forewarned. Need to get ENR equipment and technology explicitly into the Russia, France, and other agreements, and make sure all of these are fully signed ASAP.
sraj,

AFAIK, France has already stated that all their reactors would come with assured fuel supplies and the right to reprocess fuel. On further inquiry, the French Ambassador had to admit, that it would not include any enrichment and reprocessing technology transfers until the NSG has clarified its position on this issue. ENR Transfer issues remains a matter of discussion in the NSG. Now Howard Berman has a promise from Condoleeza Rice to push for the ban on export of ENR from the US side. That means France will make its policy on that dependent on NSG clearance.

Our deal with Russia will be signed during Medvedew's visit to India in December. The next NSG Plenary meeting is in November if I am not mistaken. It is unclear if NSG arrives at a consensus by then.

If NSG does not arrive at a consensus, then it would probably mean because of resistance from the Russians, in which case the Russians would be willing to give us ENR and will put it into writing to strengthen their position. However during the backroom NSG deliberations on August 21-23 in Vienna, the Pipsqueak, USA and Russia arrived at some sort of understanding regarding the ENR issue, and it could be that Russia has already assured the others of its support to a ban on ENR export.

Basically I am very pessimistic about ENR access. We will have to develop our own enrichment technology.

JMTs
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by RajeshA »

Philip wrote:No disprespect to our parliament intended,but whatever we say or do is indeed going to "signify nothing" because the US will play by its rules no matter what we pass,and we will be penalised in some manner or the other even to the extent where the US will pressurise the NSG suppliers to stop N-trade with India! The US was able to presssurise the NSG in favour of India,what's there to stop it from getting the NSG to stop N-trade with us later?Why can't you read the plain English in the US's "diktat"? Ultimately,where will that leave us,to be bracketed with N.Korea and Pak at a future date after we test again (which given N.Korea's latest surprise to resume its N-programme never forgetting that N.Korea and China are partners in Pak's nuclear and missile programmes,part of the Sino-NK-Pak-Saudi axis. ) as a"rogue state"? The recent Sino-Pak nuclear talks will also evolve into an open-ended deal for Pak to access whatever nuclear tech,weapon designs,etc. that it wants,as China treats Pak as I said before as a branch of its armed forces.
When I talk of the Jekyll Act, I suppose, you see it, as my wish to counterbalance American Law in terms of its capacity and weight. Perhaps you see it as an expression of our fury, rage and impotence.

I see it in different terms. Parliamentary approval for sale of every American nuclear reactor to India increases the cost of doing business, one can call it putting up non-tariff barriers directed at all those who target us.

It is also not a provocation, as we are doing it criteria-based and is not to be directed at USA.

Such a Law can also put others on notice, that there will be consequences of terminating the agreement. These consequences will not be so dire to the others as perhaps to us because of others reacting to our testing but they will be there. As India's strategic capital in the world increases, the costs of Indian reaction to termination by others will increase correspondingly. Americans like Gary Ackermann say, that since India is not going to be testing anyway, all these conditionalities are all hypothetical, so we need not worry. Same case with our Law. The consequences are also all hypothetical.

I am under no illusion, that such a Law will be no more threatening to USA as a Pakistani Law on J&K is to India. I am also not implying that America's sway diminishes at the NSG through it.

You say such a Law is useless, and I am saying that it helps by putting up non-tariff barriers and restores to some extent the dignity of our Parliament. Through your comments you are denying the benefits of such a Law in an area, which it is not supposed to serve anyway. This Law is supposed to serve a limited though useful purpose, and does not claim to be able to chain American power; or its sway in India, NSG or the world; or to succeed in stopping America putting sanctions on India in concert with NSG.

If Indian Parliament does not get to take a shot at the Nuclear Deal and at an appropriate Jekyll Act, it will look weak and impotent compared to US Congress, and so would our Democracy compared to that of US.

I simply fail to understand the connection between a Jekyll Act and being bundled with Iran and North Korea. It is not as if we are testing right away.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by NRao »

GNEP folks, GNEP.

On GNEP, just as BTW, the foot soldiers in the US Labs have been working on it for a few years. It IS coming and the biggest beneficiaries of it are France and Russia.

On the current situation, a few observations:
* Every step India gets a new bad news. Why is MMS so thrilled about this situation?
* This Breman guy is really saving a ton of problems for India - by telling the truth, unless of course MMS has signed on to these "deals" and is faking it
* No ENR, 1/3 the price

Finally, learn to spell GNEP. And forget these deals.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Rye »

I don't see what the heartburn is about, India is free to do 123 with Russia and France -- the USA just handicapped itself with its NPAs and Howard Berman's -- if the democrat scumbags in the US cannot get over their ideology and do business with India, that is not India's problem.

I am not sure we should get carried away with GNEP or other FLAs -- the primary importance is to get ahead with the research on the three-stage program in collaboration with Russia and source U from countries like Namibia and build up influence in such states that are yet to be in the NSG. Russia is furthest ahead in this technology and France is next -- USA is dead last in current civilian reactor tech, AFAICT, since Jimmy Carter halted any and all such programs.

Indian parliament passes laws that ensure that nuclear power plants are not treated like potted plants that can be moved on a whim, and impose heavy penalties on parties that are backed by rules such as the Hyde Act. Other parties without such rules (like France and Russia) can reap the rewards of not having such inconvenient rules for India.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by vsudhir »

Rye wrote:I don't see what the heartburn is about, India is free to do 123 with Russia and France -- the USA just handicapped itself with its NPAs and Howard Berman's -- if the democrat scumbags in the US cannot get over their ideology and do business with India, that is not India's problem.
IMO the takleef is because by signing this 123 India implicitly accepts the conditionalities in the US version of the agreement as well - which state, IIRC, that the US is obliged to actively *prevent* India's acquisition of N material and tech anywhere should India fail opaque determination by GOTUS (such as some annual presidential certification, for example) that India just might conduct N testing in the future. Such prevention could include a variety of things (USN conducting searches on India bound ships in the high seas, perhaps?)

This does seem like a huge lever we've gifted unkil to arm twist us with down the line. I'm sure you'll disagree, but this is (admittedly alarmist) reading.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Rye »

Without a fulcrum a lever is useless....but I think the main point is that if the GoI falls on its job, as it has in the past, then you may be right....but then, not like any of us can do anything about all of this.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by NRao »

Rye,

The heart burn is about "collusion" between them all - including France and Russia. Both France and Russia are beholden to the NSG - with perhaps a few exceptional times. Jan, 2007 ::
The Russian commitment is provisional and subject to the NSG lifting restrictions on India. Both sides have stressed that the cooperation on civilian nuclear energy being envisaged will be subject to "their respective international commitments". As a member of the NSG, Russia cannot engage in nuclear trade with India until the NSG guidelines are amended
The French also signaled interest in civilian nuclear-energy cooperation with India. But both countries were constrained from moving forward in this regard because of the NSG restrictions.
Since I cannot find the direct quote from the Russian FM (IIRC) the above should do for now.

123 with individual countries are NSG based. The waiver India got is really not clean or unconditional. BOTH are today and forever controlled by the US.

GNEP cannot be pushed to the background - the US leading that effort, but it cannot work without France OR Russia and BOTH have publicly stated (even as the Georgian fiasco was going on) that they will support the US. GNEP is OPEC++ for the nuclear field. GNEP will have total control. Absolute control.

On Indian three phase, India will have to fight for it since India still needs seed fuel - which it does not have. ENR was expected to provide the seed fuel - even AKs slides have that in it.

Aug 15, 2007:
“The inter-governmental agreement will provide for the construction of four additional reactors at Koodankulam and will lay guidelines for further nuclear energy cooperation between our two countries,” Mr. Saran said. Russia is currently building two reactors at the Koodankulam nuclear power plant under an agreement signed before Russia joined the NSG.

Good prospects

The practical implementation of the agreement will come only after we are through with the NSG and the IAEA,” the special envoy noted. He said that Russia being “the only country which has functional cooperation with India in nuclear energy,” the prospects for enhancing this cooperation were very good.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Rye »

NRao, can you explain in the form of a flow chart depicting exactly how Berman's recent additions have changed the NSG and IAEA rules? Because, unless you can prove to me how, Russia and France are beholden by the new US laws passed in Congress, i.e., how the US laws affect the already negotiated agreements with NSG and IAEA that you mention, I am not sure what all the excitement is about.

Secondly, India's *goal* is to produce the ENR tech and commercialize it -- that is what will pry open the oyster that contains the world. Why should any other country hand over the hard fruits of their labour to India? The real good thing that is happening is that it actually frees the local talent (what little there is of it) to focus on the hard issues instead of the mundane implementation details that came with being under sanctions.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by ramana »

Rye, Why dont you do the very thing you want NRao to do? Please do a flowchart to show how the Senate riders and the Berman statement how they dont impact the Indian nuke power position.

Thanks, ramana
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Sanjay M »

vsudhir wrote:
Rye wrote:I don't see what the heartburn is about, India is free to do 123 with Russia and France -- the USA just handicapped itself with its NPAs and Howard Berman's -- if the democrat scumbags in the US cannot get over their ideology and do business with India, that is not India's problem.
IMO the takleef is because by signing this 123 India implicitly accepts the conditionalities in the US version of the agreement as well - which state, IIRC, that the US is obliged to actively *prevent* India's acquisition of N material and tech anywhere should India fail opaque determination by GOTUS (such as some annual presidential certification, for example) that India just might conduct N testing in the future. Such prevention could include a variety of things (USN conducting searches on India bound ships in the high seas, perhaps?)

This does seem like a huge lever we've gifted unkil to arm twist us with down the line. I'm sure you'll disagree, but this is (admittedly alarmist) reading.

What we need to then do is boost our nuclear supply deals with the Russians and French at the expense of dealing with the Americans.

And this is because the US cannot wield the same stick twice. They can't threaten to cut off our access to supplies if we don't buy their reactors, while also threatening to cut off our supplies if we test. If they want to seek out a 2-for-1 deal, and try to both get reactor sales and test-ban from the same supply-cutoff threat, then we'll have to demonstrate to them thru action that we won't take that lying down.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by harik »

ramana wrote:Rye, Why dont you do the very thing you want NRao to do? Please do a flowchart to show how the Senate riders and the Berman statement how they dont impact the Indian nuke power position.

Thanks, ramana
Rye I second that, & Ramana no gripes whatsoever . shyam or shewat

In the meanshile Karan tahpar is asking Catholic media head for *voluntary** moratriaum for conversion.

Javed Akhtar responds further , do I get reconverted *voluntarily* . Akhtar did your folks get converted *voluntarily*..

Parsi behaved like a derided Baniya .. ( Fali Nariman , when wil he support female rights of Parsi daugthers ! ).
If they get married out of Parsi comm, nobody helps them !!!
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Rye »

Ramana,

NRao made those claims, so I am going to let him do the work. I don't believe NRao's claims, and therefore cannot go through mental gymnastics to justify his position. I do not see how already negotiated agreements can be affected by the recent changes, and I am not going to make up stuff pretending that it can.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by NRao »

Rye,

Fair enough.

IAEA is a diff animal, so I will not deal with that.

FR/RU: Have publicly stated that NSG is their guide. (So, I would not expect a India centric 123 from anyone.)

NSG:
"Clean" was based on Indian FM statement on web site about moratorium, etc (I think you are familiar enough about that).
"Condition": The US told NSG that the US Hyde Act and 123 are conditions enough and therefore NSG does not need any conditions. This is the kicker which tie Breman to NSG.

Rice:
* Assurance to everyone that Hyde Act rules NSG
* Now, BECAUSE US told NSG that they can rely on US conditions - THEREFORE rightly so, any assurance GOTUS gives US Congress rules NSG. At least from US PoV

India:
* Indian PoV is non existent. For everything rides on the Hyde Act and 123. which also rides on the Hyde Act
* From a civilian PoV, India will get reactors and fuel for ever, unless India tests - FR/RU fall behind NSG, they have to stop fuel supply - you see US conditions apply to NSG
* From a proliferation PoV, India will never get ENR from abroad, even under IAEA supervision, because that feeds into three-phase and thorium. IF India is allowed three phase the nonproliferation loop is incomplete
Last edited by NRao on 27 Sep 2008 22:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Arun_S »

PM: We need a clean deal. Indian Express
Washington, PTI:
With conditions cropping up in the Congressional legislation on the Indo-US nuclear deal and in administrations views, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has sought an agreement that will satisfy India, a plea that was strongly reciprocated by President George W Bush.

The two leaders, who met here for the last time during Bush’s Presidency, put behind their disappointment on Thursday night over not being able to ink the agreement they had reached three years ago and praised each other’s leadership in bringing about a strong strategic relationship between the two countries.

“One such sign of that leadership is the India-US civil nuclear arrangement. We want the agreement to satisfy you and get out of our Congress. So we are working hard to get it passed as quickly as possible,” Bush said at the end on an hour-long meeting.

Singh responded warmly, saying, “I sincerely hope that the settlement which is now before the US Congress will be approved in a manner which will be satisfactory from the point of view of both of our countries.”

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday approved overwhelmingly a legislation on the deal which has a provision that all nuclear cooperation with India will cease in case of a nuclear test by New Delhi. The provision was also included in the bill moved by Congressman Howard Berman in the House of Representatives on Thursday. The Indian side is also not happy with the wording of the legislation.

Senate Majority leader Harry Reid on Friday indicated that the legislation on the subject in his Chamber will be taken up and passed only next week. “It appears quite evident that we are going to be in session next week. There are a lot of things that haven’t been done and I will mention just a couple of them,” Reid said.

“We have a Department of Defence authorisation which is very important, rail safety, Amtrak, the finalisation of the financial crisis legislation.”

Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon said India was not worried if the passage of the deal was delayed in the US Congress.

All-clear in sight

* The US House of Representatives is poised to take up an approval resolution on Friday (US time)

* This could lead to Congressional approval which will effectively finalise the deal

* House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman, Howard Berman, agrees to go with the bill

* The Bush administration is working overtime to ensure that the acord is wrapped up by the time Manmohan
Singh concludes his 5-day visit to the US on Saturday

* Rice will visit India next month to sign the 123 bilateral agreement, that will seal the landmark deal


Love bites

The people of India deeply love you.:
  • Manmohan Singh tells George Bush

Diplomacy should not be carried to the extent of sychophancy.:
  • Rajiv Pratap Rudy, BJP spokesperson

We all know that Manmohan Singh loves Bush. But I don’t understand why he brought all of India into it.:
  • Prakash Karat, CPM General Secretary
I find the first quote of MMS to Bush most amusing.
  • Didn't some one say: "Love is BLIND",
    or did MM.Singh only remember "All is fair in Love and War". That unfortunately exposes true Loyalty to the beloved.
    or "Saawan Kay Andhay Ko sub Hara nazar Aata Hai" {Hindi: A person blinded in spring has a frozen world-view where all things in the world are lush green" :twisted:
    BUMMS will soon be history, but their love songs will reverberate the fiza for ever. In glory or ignomity? Time will tell.
NRao
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by NRao »

MMS seems to be JUST realizing that no matter what the Hyde Act is the center of everything!! 123, NSG and all other 123 with which ever country are all tied to the Hyde Act. The Hyde Act is not bad as long as India does not test and does not ask for ENR. What has not explicitly been left out of the Hyde Act is Thorium. All else is GNEP. FR an RU included.

The next surprise: bait and switch from France ...................................... when MMS gets there.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by harik »

Deleted the post , was in Wrong subject. Sorry
Sanjay M
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Sanjay M »

NRao wrote:MMS seems to be JUST realizing that no matter what the Hyde Act is the center of everything!! 123, NSG and all other 123 with which ever country are all tied to the Hyde Act. The Hyde Act is not bad as long as India does not test and does not ask for ENR. What has not explicitly been left out of the Hyde Act is Thorium. All else is GNEP. FR an RU included.

The next surprise: bait and switch from France ...................................... when MMS gets there.

If others can bait and switch, then so can we.
We've not yet submitted our list of inspectable reactors to IAEA, which is supposed to be our immediate up-front sacrifice (with testing being a later longer term sacrifice)

So we still have the option of submitting a list which falls short of what they'll accept. That'll then catch their attention by bringing us all back to square one.

I'd first suggest going to the Russians though, to see what they're willing to offer us. If they play the same game, then we know what to do.
Last edited by Sanjay M on 27 Sep 2008 23:24, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by ramana »

Hindu reports
Strategic partnership sealed

Harish Khare

We’re working hard to get nuclear deal passed as quickly as possible: Bush

WASHINGTON: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President George W. Bush gave one last personal touch to the new “strategic partnership” between India and the United States, even as the two leaders were aware that the civilian nuclear agreement itself remained far from being consummated because of the American legislators’ doubts and diversions.

The Prime Minister and his entourage travelled to Washington DC on Thursday afternoon for a three-hour interaction, including a working dinner, with Mr. Bush at the White House.

In their brief statements, made before the media at the Oval Office, the two leaders referred to the trouble the India-U.S. civilian agreement had run into in the U.S. Congress. “It has taken a lot of work on both our parts, a lot of courage on your part, and of course we want the agreement to satisfy you and get it out of our Congress. And so we’re working hard to get it passed as quickly as possible,” said Mr. Bush.

Dr. Singh, on his part, hoped that the agreement would be approved “in a manner which will be satisfactory from the point of view of both of our countries.” But the Prime Minister wanted to put on record his appreciation of Mr. Bush’s personal role in the “massive transformation” of the India-U.S. ties, centred on the nuclear agreement.

“ ..with regard to civil nuclear energy, I know these are difficult issues, and at each stage it was your leadership, your personal intervention, which resolved all the difficulties that were affecting the progress of these negotiations,” acknowledged Dr. Singh.

Later, Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon alluded to the difficulties the India-U.S. nuclear deal had run into in the U.S. Congress, both on account of the American pre-occupation with the massive financial crisis and opposition to the deal per se.

Mr. Menon said, “we have to learn as we go along” and that he was not an “astrologer” to predict how the Congressional approval process would work itself out. He, however, did suggest that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice could visit India soon, possibly in the first week of October, by which time the American Congress would have finished its part.

However, Mr. Menon made it clear now that the NSG waiver was in place; New Delhi was ready to do nuclear business with France and Russia though it would not necessarily mean a disadvantage for the American companies.

“The 123 is an enabling agreement and once it is done, it would allow firms and companies to sit and do the detailed contracts for the supply of the equipment, etc. That work is going to take a little time. It is not that once 123 is done, contracts would be signed overnight with anybody,” Mr. Menon said.

He clarified the commitment made to place orders for 10, 000 MW from American firms: “The commitment to the U.S. is that we will place orders if they are commercially competitive which is the same as our commitment for anyone else.”
I think Bush will make those Presidential notations on the new act also and UPA will say it overrides those clauses. Bush doesn't want to lose India. Menon's statement and clarification is interesting.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Rye »

There seem to be folks railing on the PM's diplomatic warfare on Dubya and telling him how India loves him personally, but I think that is pretty clever, and everyone else is free to disagree...but consider it in light of Shri SS Menon's statement.
NRao
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by NRao »

SM,

No two ways about that. However, that falls under "defiance". I am not sure if that will be acceptable to DC - Bush perhaps, but then who cares about him any more. I do not think it will work - although MMS seems to be indicating he has no more give.

Also, that kind of defiance was there from DAE. I do not think DEA will accept that though, reading from past few years experience. In reality DAE was a lot more hard on these stands and MMS softened them over time.

Rye,

Railing against US Congress and perhaps even Rice's behavior, MMS has a decent-good vision, but on the civilian side. I still feel that IF he (MMS) had stood his ground he would have got a lot more, even with Breman yelling in the background. MMS is betting - and he has said that his scicom has stated - on not testing. Which is fine, just he should have been more open about it.

All this more frustration than actual opposition to MMS. Bad frustration and very high BP.

Need to run, more l8r.
ramana
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by ramana »

NRao. Lite ga theskondi. Its not as it looks.
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