India nuclear news and discussion

Arun_S
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Arun_S » 08 Dec 2008 11:55


Ahhhh.... Anil Kakodkar is very careful to not state what is the specific target # that he promises India will exceed!!!! :rotfl:

I am very sure India will exceed the Nuclear Energy target that was set in the Five year plan for 2020, because that target was based on all indigenous nuclear power plants (with the assumption that NSG will keep it ints straight jacket), and not taking into account post Nuclear Deal situation of liberal orders for 40GWe Light Water Reactors. Even the most incompetent government administrator will exceed old nuclear power target for 2020. What is there for Shri Kakodkar/DAE to crow about that?

Of course the target that BARC under the leadership of Shri Kakodkar set out a power point presentation few months ago to win over resistance to India-US civil nuclear deal, to build by 2020 additional 40,000MWe nuclear power from imported LWR nuclear plants and fuel supplies. I am sure as hell that Shri Kakodkar and his sarkari team mates will never commit to the 40,000 MWe from LWR by 2020, simply because the number in the said power point was well .... .. . just a number pulled form thin air to look good on power point presentation. In reality it is impossible to add 40 GWe from LWR by 2020 (which is just 11 year away).

It poorly reflects character of Shri Kakodkar in being afraid to clearly state in this self-congratulatory interview what is the target figure that DAE will meet or exceed by 2020?

I will be happy to eat humble pie and crow if Kakodkar and his team can deliver by 2020, what he said will deliver in his famous power point presentation. I am sure I will never end up breaking my vow to live as a vegetarian.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Added later: So there is no creditability to Kakodkars powerpoint projection of additional 40GWe power to Indian electricity grid from LWR by 2020. That claim mirrors the on-paper credibility of Indian Thermo Nuclear deterrence based on RChidambaram's Venn diagram. :wink:

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 08 Dec 2008 12:19

How long time does it take to build a nuclear power plant?

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Arun_S » 08 Dec 2008 22:59

Rishirishi wrote:How long time does it take to build a nuclear power plant?

Rishi: I would ask you to do some Google search on your own before asking for readymade answers? I am sure others will be enriched/learn from your find.

BRF participation is a 2 way street.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Arun_S » 09 Dec 2008 00:14


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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Gerard » 09 Dec 2008 00:24

xpost because of potential impact on India
France floats EU plan on nuclear weapons cuts
French President Nicolas Sarkozy presented an ambitious European plan Monday to the United Nations to revive global nuclear disarmament efforts.

Sarkozy, in a letter to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, said the EU wants a global ban on nuclear tests, a moratorium on production of fissile material and a treaty banning on ground-to-ground short- and medium-range missiles.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby RajeshA » 09 Dec 2008 01:29

Gerard wrote:France floats EU plan on nuclear weapons cuts
French President Nicolas Sarkozy presented an ambitious European plan Monday to the United Nations to revive global nuclear disarmament efforts.

Sarkozy, in a letter to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, said the EU wants a global ban on nuclear tests, a moratorium on production of fissile material and a treaty banning on ground-to-ground short- and medium-range missiles.


The ban on missiles if new for me. The world is full of them. Who is going to sell off their missiles to junk collectors? He is definitely not serious!

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby putnanja » 09 Dec 2008 01:46

Russian uranium will power Tarapur nuclear plant again

Russian uranium will power Tarapur nuclear plant again

Sandeep Dikshit

$700-million deal will provide 2,000 tonnes of fuel

NEW DELHI: India’s deal with Russia for supply of uranium, worth $700 million, will be for five years which is extendable, authoritative sources said on Monday. The contract for the supply of 2,000 tonnes will cover not only reactors run on Russian technology but also the U.S.-origin Tarapur nuclear plant as well as others now running at half the capacity due to fuel constraints.

The mega deal is for three types of fuel, with low enriched uranium for the Tarapur complex being agreed upon despite reservations by Moscow, which felt that reactors run best when fuelled by uranium from the country of their origin.

Analysts here hope that the deal will immediately boost electricity generation by at least 1,000 MW. A further impetus will be provided when Russian fuel begins powering two new plants at Rawatbhata in Rajasthan.

In the past, China and Russia supplied uranium for the Tarapur complex despite objections from the international community. India’s nuclear sector has had several instances of cooperation with the West but there have been instances of fuel supply being switched off whenever it felt that New Delhi had violated the non-proliferation regime.

India will be looking to sign another contract for supply of uranium with Kazakhstan during the visit of its President Nursultan Nazarabyev in January. India is engaged with Kazakhstan to source nuclear fuel and, if possible, will step up technical collaboration in a wide range of nuclear-related activities including uranium mining and processing.

Kazakhstan presents a good opportunity after Japan declined to collaborate directly with India in the nuclear sector.


Apart from Russia setting up two power plants and signing an agreement to construct four more at the same site, the sources said, talks are in progress on the possibility of setting up two more plants at Kudankulam in Tamil Nadu. These reactors would be in addition to the two plants proposed to be set up by the French company, Areva, for which an agreement has been reached for supplying 300 tonnes of uranium.

India now has 17 operating reactors with a total installed capacity of 4,120 Mwe, most of them running at 40-60 per cent of capacity due to fuel shortage. The focus was on developing new mines in Meghalaya, Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka. However, the sophisticated uranium mining equipment is difficult to import, while agitations in Meghalaya has stymied the project for a couple of years.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Gerard » 09 Dec 2008 01:49

The ban on missiles if new for me. The world is full of them. Who is going to sell off their missiles to junk collectors? He is definitely not serious!


Recall this?

US and Russia urge nuclear ban
28 Oct 2007

The statement - released by Moscow - called on "all interested countries to discuss the possibility of imparting a global character to this important regime through the renunciation of ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with ranges between 500 and 5,500km, leading to the destruction of any such missiles".


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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby RajeshA » 09 Dec 2008 03:05

Gerard,

you surprise me, how many facts one can remember. Meine Hochachtung!

I still think, it can not be a serious proposition. 500 - 5500 km range is like all the missiles on the planet, except the ICBMs possessed by the N-5 and India (Agni-V and Surya, under development) and those powers, which have large navies. The question is, why would the small countries willingly sign on the dotted line?

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby ShauryaT » 09 Dec 2008 06:52

RajeshA wrote:Gerard,

you surprise me, how many facts one can remember. Meine Hochachtung!
Who says Gerard is human? :) Gerard is the name of super duper AI program that has reams and reams of information, and can dissect those reams to post just the relevant news and then can answer questions precisely.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby SRay » 09 Dec 2008 21:07

Hidden Travels of the Atomic Bomb

use bugmenot.com to get a registration if req'd.

Article argues that virtually no major power developed their nuclear weapons by themselves. Proliferation paths to several countries are drawn. Interestingly, only India is not mentioned as a recipient or proliferator.

If anyone reads either book mentioned in the article, it would be good to hear what theory they have on India's development of nuclear technology.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby putnanja » 11 Dec 2008 01:06


Gerard
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Gerard » 11 Dec 2008 03:40


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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Gerard » 11 Dec 2008 03:42


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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby putnanja » 12 Dec 2008 02:52


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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Gerard » 12 Dec 2008 03:22

Thorium Warms Up To Nuclear India
Thorium Power has become the first American company to march into the Indian nuclear market after an agreement to collaborate on the energy was finally signed between India and the United States last month. The Virginia-based nuclear energy company struck a deal with Punj Lloyd, an Indian engineering firm, to create a 50-50 joint venture which it hopes to have in place by the end of March

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Rye » 12 Dec 2008 03:30

The use of thorium fuel for nuclear energy is still being tested, but Thorium Power believes positioning itself in India as quickly as possible could prove lucrative.


What exactly is the value Thorium Power company is adding to the Thorium reactors? Is it a mining company? They do not seem to possess any technology or IP to compete with Indian tech. in this area -- this almost seems like a front company to extract information from other collaborators with state companies operating in this area. This thorium-based nuke energy market will last many centuries and will be way more lucrative than saudi oil in the long term, so it is clear why there is an interest.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Arun_S » 12 Dec 2008 06:55

Rye wrote:
The use of thorium fuel for nuclear energy is still being tested, but Thorium Power believes positioning itself in India as quickly as possible could prove lucrative.


What exactly is the value Thorium Power company is adding to the Thorium reactors? Is it a mining company? They do not seem to possess any technology or IP to compete with Indian tech. in this area -- this almost seems like a front company to extract information from other collaborators with state companies operating in this area. This thorium-based nuke energy market will last many centuries and will be way more lucrative than saudi oil in the long term, so it is clear why there is an interest.


Yes Thorium Power has no technology or experience, but what is wrong here? It is an American Company, that is qualification enough.
Because after signing US-India civil (sic) nuclear deal, Indian technology will be discarded internally & givien to Tom Dick and Harry to be sold back to Yindians for profit. You see India is a land whose elite are owned by external powers so that Indian population can be ruled by Indian elite proxies as appropriate per massas wishes.

India has no god given right to be equal to other nations who have privileged white man access to the true God.

Once a dhimmi, always a dhimmi.

JMT.

Sorry for the rant.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Baljeet » 12 Dec 2008 07:18

ArunS Boss
You are right on money here. I do find a fault with our S&T community. It seems these intellectuals are more interested in phoren recognition than go into oblivion like a "Veer Yodha".

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Gerard » 14 Dec 2008 07:11


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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby renukb » 14 Dec 2008 14:15

Good going...

India likely to sign N-pact with uranium-rich Kazakhstan
http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.ns ... enDocument

New Delhi, Dec 14 (PTI) Kazakhstan, known to have the second largest uranium reserves in the world, has evinced keen interest to have civil nuclear cooperation with India and an agreement in this regard is expected to be signed during the visit of President Nursultan Nazarbayev here next month.

Atomic energy agencies of the countries have already established contacts and are discussing the scope for cooperation, including supply of uranium, joint exploration of the nuclear fuel and setting up of atomic plants.

"We are working for that. It is early to speak about that," Kazakh Ambassador Kairat Umarov told PTI in an interview here when asked whether civil nuclear agreement will be signed during the visit of Nazarbayev, who is coming here as the Chief Guest of the 2009 Republic Day.

Sources said, however, that the agreement is expected be signed during the visit and negotiations in this regard are being speeded up.

Kazakhstan will be the fourth country after the US, France and Russia with which India will have civil nuclear cooperation if the agreement is clinched during Narbayev's three-day visit when he will meet Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

Reflecting his country's keen interest to have civil nuclear agreement, Umarov said "the Kazakh side is ready to cooperate with India because India's reputation is very high." Referring to the waiver by Nuclear Suppliers Group and firming up of India-IAEA Safeguards agreement, he said "since all formal hurdles have been overcome, there is clear road to cooperate." PTI

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Sanatanan » 15 Dec 2008 17:22

INS - Homi Bhabha Lifetime Achievement Award for Dr S.K Sikka [From Delhi Campus, brought by The Hindu]. This link is dated, but believe has not been posted in this thread so far.

French physicist gets INS Eminent Scientist Award
Nov 25th, 2008 | By editor | Category: In News, Nation

MUMBAI: Veteran French nuclear physicist M. George Vendryes on Monday received the Indian Nuclear Society’s first Eminent Scientist Award.

The 88-year-old was given a memento and a citation by L&T chairman A.M. Naik in the presence of Atomic Energy Commission chairman Anil Kakodkar and NPCIL chairman and managing director S.K. Jain at the annual conference of the society.

Mr. Vendryes said he was highly honoured and thanked INS for selecting him for its award and that too in the centenary year of his friend Homi Jahangir Bhabha, father of India’s nuclear programme.

“I was privileged at the Geneva conference where Bhabha spoke with such exceptional authority. I had planned to welcome Bhabha in Europe when fate decided something else when the plane in which he was travelling crashed, taking him to a giant tower of silence,” the French scientist said.

Homi Bhabha Lifetime Achievement Awards were given to Dr. Satinder K. Sikka, Scientific Secretary to Principal Scientific Adviser to Government of India for his contribution in India’s strategic programme and A. Sanatkumar of BARC-NPCIL for his expertise in crucial fuel handling system.

Both of them received a citation and a cash award of Rs.1 lakh each.

The Communication Award was given to K.S. Parthasarathy, the former secretary of the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board. – PTI

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby NRao » 15 Dec 2008 22:21

"Veteran French nuclear physicist M. George Vendryes" got lost due to the 26/11 attack. In fact the distinguished physicist was literally rescued from the Taj, where he had moved on the 25th and was there during the attack. He was subsequently housed in a GoI/DAE Guest House.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Gerard » 16 Dec 2008 04:24


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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Gerard » 16 Dec 2008 04:45


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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 17 Dec 2008 15:24


sraj
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby sraj » 22 Dec 2008 01:14

Rye wrote:
The use of thorium fuel for nuclear energy is still being tested, but Thorium Power believes positioning itself in India as quickly as possible could prove lucrative.


What exactly is the value Thorium Power company is adding to the Thorium reactors? Is it a mining company? They do not seem to possess any technology or IP to compete with Indian tech. in this area -- this almost seems like a front company to extract information from other collaborators with state companies operating in this area. This thorium-based nuke energy market will last many centuries and will be way more lucrative than saudi oil in the long term, so it is clear why there is an interest.

Check out Thorium Power!

Thorium Power
Ambassador Thomas Graham, Jr.
Executive Chairman of the Board

Thomas Graham, Jr. is one of the world's leading experts in nuclear non-proliferation.

Ambassador Graham has served as a senior U.S. diplomat involved in the negotiation of every major international arms control and non-proliferation agreement during the period from 1970 to 1997.

He is the guy who was reported to be in touch with the famous "mole" in GoI during Narasimha Rao's tenure as PM.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Yogi_G » 22 Dec 2008 06:18



I bet this was also strongly influenced by the American chopper flying over Kalpakkam in 2002, I bet a lot of reconnaissance photos would have been taken in that sortie....

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 22 Dec 2008 06:19

More likely "sniffing".

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Kailash » 22 Dec 2008 20:11

Dont know if this is the right thread. Please move it if necessary.

http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/19/stories/2008121957780100.htm

R.K. Radhakrishnan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neutrinos are naturally occurring particles

There is worldwide interest in this field

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHENNAI: Atomic Energy Commission Chairman Anil Kakodkar called on Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi on Thursday to discuss the setting up of a neutrino observatory in the State.

“I came here to seek the consent and approval [from the Chief Minister] for [setting up] the India-based Neutrino Observatory,” Mr. Kakodkar told reporters after the meeting.

Members of the high energy and nuclear physics community in India have been discussing, at least since 2000, the setting up of the India-based Neutrino Observatory (INO) to study atmospheric neutrinos.

According to the INO website, hosted by the Institute of Mathematical Sciences, Chennai, the observatory is a pure-science underground laboratory. “Its primary goal is to study the properties and interactions of weakly interacting, naturally occurring particles called neutrinos. There is a worldwide interest in this field due to its implications for several diverse and allied fields such as particle physics, cosmology and the origin of the universe, energy production mechanisms in the sun and other stars.”

The commission has chosen a spot in The Nilgiris, because some infrastructure (tunnels) is already there. It is two km from the Pykara TNEB camp and 1300 metres beneath the mountain named INO Peak (2207 m).

According to the website, the State government has given in-principle approval for locating the project at Singara near Masinagudi, pending statutory clearance. The project has been given environmental clearance by the Union Ministry of Environment and Forests.

Surveys have been going on “for a while” at the site, sources said. The AEC chairman met the Chief Minister to formally seek his consent. The facility will be located in the Nilgiris Biosphere Reserve.

At the meeting, the Chief Minister was briefed about the need for the facility and its importance to the country and the scientific community.

Appreciating the need for the project, Mr. Karunanidhi felt that people living around the forest should be taken into confidence and made aware of the purpose of the project. Their consent was what mattered most.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Kailash » 22 Dec 2008 22:24

Can anyone comment on the pace and direction of the Indian atomic energy program after the NSG approval?

http://next-generation-communications.tmcnet.com/news/2008/12/18/3867492.htm

News like that actually is worrying. Would India lose the edge in N.Technology and start buying Off-The-Shelf components from west? Chinese just succeeded in producing the Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC) http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-12/16/content_10515155.htm. All we hear from BARC either utilization oriented news (reactor technologies advances) or military news (ray guns like KALI etc).

How much is effort/money is being spent on basic physics research and has there been any major milestones? I know we had a thriving fusion research which was abandoned. But we dont hear much on superconductivity research, nano-engineering, high power lasers and optics, atomic clocks, atom smashing and subatomic research etc. Practical restrictions, instumentation issues may be there, there are no theorists either...

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 22 Dec 2008 23:13

Kailash wrote:Can anyone comment on the pace and direction of the Indian atomic energy program after the NSG approval?

http://next-generation-communications.tmcnet.com/news/2008/12/18/3867492.htm

News like that actually is worrying. Would India lose the edge in N.Technology and start buying Off-The-Shelf components from west? Chinese just succeeded in producing the Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC) http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-12/16/content_10515155.htm. All we hear from BARC either utilization oriented news (reactor technologies advances) or military news (ray guns like KALI etc).

How much is effort/money is being spent on basic physics research and has there been any major milestones? I know we had a thriving fusion research which was abandoned. But we dont hear much on superconductivity research, nano-engineering, high power lasers and optics, atomic clocks, atom smashing and subatomic research etc. Practical restrictions, instumentation issues may be there, there are no theorists either...



Quote from the article above:
The state of condensation for atoms was predicted by Einstein in 1924 based on Indian physicist Satyendra Nath Bose's theories. Since then, the subject of what's called Bose-Einstein Condensate (BEC) has remained hot among the world's brightest physicists
Who says India is behind? :D

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Arun_S » 23 Dec 2008 02:26

Rishirishi wrote:
Kailash wrote:Can anyone comment on the pace and direction of the Indian atomic energy program after the NSG approval?

http://next-generation-communications.tmcnet.com/news/2008/12/18/3867492.htm

News like that actually is worrying. Would India lose the edge in N.Technology and start buying Off-The-Shelf components from west? Chinese just succeeded in producing the Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC) http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-12/16/content_10515155.htm. All we hear from BARC either utilization oriented news (reactor technologies advances) or military news (ray guns like KALI etc).

How much is effort/money is being spent on basic physics research and has there been any major milestones? I know we had a thriving fusion research which was abandoned. But we dont hear much on superconductivity research, nano-engineering, high power lasers and optics, atomic clocks, atom smashing and subatomic research etc. Practical restrictions, instumentation issues may be there, there are no theorists either...



Quote from the article above:
The state of condensation for atoms was predicted by Einstein in 1924 based on Indian physicist Satyendra Nath Bose's theories. Since then, the subject of what's called Bose-Einstein Condensate (BEC) has remained hot among the world's brightest physicists
Who says India is behind? :D


Precisely the point. Did you see the date 1924? and when did SN Bose live and retire? (Answer: 1956)
Bose was followed by towering personalities in Global Nuclear Physics arena Dr.Homi Bhabha who died/assassinated 1966. That is when India moved from head of the pack to licking the tail of the pack.

The nepotism and inbreeding(sic) whose output is exemplified by likes of Dr.Chidambram and Engineer Kakodkar has ensured that Pgymies breed even smaller Pygmies. Hopefully one can see the behind of the crap hole that Indian nuclear establishment has landed the nation into.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Arun_S » 23 Dec 2008 02:29

sraj wrote:
Rye wrote:
The use of thorium fuel for nuclear energy is still being tested, but Thorium Power believes positioning itself in India as quickly as possible could prove lucrative.


What exactly is the value Thorium Power company is adding to the Thorium reactors? Is it a mining company? They do not seem to possess any technology or IP to compete with Indian tech. in this area -- this almost seems like a front company to extract information from other collaborators with state companies operating in this area. This thorium-based nuke energy market will last many centuries and will be way more lucrative than saudi oil in the long term, so it is clear why there is an interest.

Check out Thorium Power!

Thorium Power
Ambassador Thomas Graham, Jr.
Executive Chairman of the Board

Thomas Graham, Jr. is one of the world's leading experts in nuclear non-proliferation.

Ambassador Graham has served as a senior U.S. diplomat involved in the negotiation of every major international arms control and non-proliferation agreement during the period from 1970 to 1997.

He is the guy who was reported to be in touch with the famous "mole" in GoI during Narasimha Rao's tenure as PM.

The "famous mole" is so powerful today as head of Indian government that no one dares name him in India, only oblique references are allowed. Wah wah ..

In Hindi: Andher Nagri, Chupat Raja

Of course just my personal opinion.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 23 Dec 2008 05:18

Arun_S wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:
Kailash wrote:Can anyone comment on the pace and direction of the Indian atomic energy program after the NSG approval?

http://next-generation-communications.tmcnet.com/news/2008/12/18/3867492.htm

News like that actually is worrying. Would India lose the edge in N.Technology and start buying Off-The-Shelf components from west? Chinese just succeeded in producing the Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC) http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-12/16/content_10515155.htm. All we hear from BARC either utilization oriented news (reactor technologies advances) or military news (ray guns like KALI etc).

How much is effort/money is being spent on basic physics research and has there been any major milestones? I know we had a thriving fusion research which was abandoned. But we dont hear much on superconductivity research, nano-engineering, high power lasers and optics, atomic clocks, atom smashing and subatomic research etc. Practical restrictions, instumentation issues may be there, there are no theorists either...



Quote from the article above:
The state of condensation for atoms was predicted by Einstein in 1924 based on Indian physicist Satyendra Nath Bose's theories. Since then, the subject of what's called Bose-Einstein Condensate (BEC) has remained hot among the world's brightest physicists
Who says India is behind? :D


Precisely the point. Did you see the date 1924? and when did SN Bose live and retire? (Answer: 1956)
Bose was followed by towering personalities in Global Nuclear Physics arena Dr.Homi Bhabha who died/assassinated 1966. That is when India moved from head of the pack to licking the tail of the pack.

The nepotism and inbreeding(sic) whose output is exemplified by likes of Dr.Chidambram and Engineer Kakodkar has ensured that Pgymies breed even smaller Pygmies. Hopefully one can see the behind of the crap hole that Indian nuclear establishment has landed the nation into.


Well, we must see that India did not have the resources, technical or economical. I can recall a India, where the opening up of a Ice cream parlor (Nirulas) was almost a sensation (80's). You could not even purchase a calculator in a small town. Not even make a std phonecall between Delhi and Mumbai. In films. news was sent by telegrams.

I dare to say that Indian way of managing (or one can say mismanaging) PSU's is striking. The PSU's use management theories of the colonial times and just fails to deliver. The government should go an learn from Singapore.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Arun_S » 23 Dec 2008 06:19

Rishirishi wrote:Well, we must see that India did not have the resources, technical or economical. I can recall a India, where the opening up of a Ice cream parlor (Nirulas) was almost a sensation (80's). You could not even purchase a calculator in a small town. Not even make a std phonecall between Delhi and Mumbai. In films. news was sent by telegrams.

I dare to say that Indian way of managing (or one can say mismanaging) PSU's is striking. The PSU's use management theories of the colonial times and just fails to deliver. The government should go an learn from Singapore.

The only problem with the above general statement is that BARC and DAE have been the exceptions to resource scarcity. Funds were diverted to DAE/BARC from services budget to the level of deprivation, and Indian army units worked sacrificing limbs for DAE projects. With no one to watch over DAE, it degenerated to enjoy the good times where the fox were given to watch over the hen house. As for nepotism and inbreeding the contrast w.r.t. scientific output of pre-1966 and post 1971 is very vivid, and so is track record of demonstrable strategic nuclear capability. Funds was a non-issue for DAE that was always headed by PM himself/herself.

DAE was the case of mother India starving its 10 children to divert food to make one strong child (DAE) who was tasked to deliver strategic defense for mother India. But the kid enjoyed the food and delivered naught.

In Hindi:
    Haath Kangan, Tou Aarsi Kya |
    Padhay Likhay Ko Faarsi Kya ||

    loosely translated to mean when the big and obvious self demonstrable proof is visible, why dissect for subtle/forsensic/circumstantial evidence:
      When has large full size mirror to see oneself, why should one want/search for pocket mirror.
      and one who is well educated, does not need to only know the Persian/Faarsi language

The fizzle of Pok-II, pulling out from the shaft the second defective TN shot, the facade (emptiness) of deterrence encouraged Pakistan to Kargil misadventure, Foreign Minister of India negotiating many rounds nuclear position statement with a gora fellow many rank lower in pecking order, the two bit Tolbett. The NSPP, the empty facade of June18 "India is a country with advanced nuclear capability with the responsibility & privileges enjoyed by other countries with advanced nuclear capability". And the coup-de-grace of final highly asymmetric agreement with US on terms which has no resemblance with J18. The make believe psy-op of scarcity of indigenous Uranium spread by DAE making Indian nuclaer reactors running at 50% plant capacity. The ultimate big broom to sweep aside Indian PHWR with a super expensive imported 40GWe from enriched fuel LWR, so that BARC will not be anyway asked to deliver nationwide electricity built on Indian PHWR/AHWR on the 3 stage fuel cycle, that is behind schedule by great many years.

All because the world knows that daughter of the house is "no maiden" and one can have amorous adventure with it, because the so called nuclear sword India professes to have has a small punch and not enough to deter anyone, including the 2 bit Pakistan.

JMT.

Arun_S
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Arun_S » 23 Dec 2008 06:39

Rishirishi wrote:I dare to say that Indian way of managing (or one can say mismanaging) PSU's is striking. The PSU's use management theories of the colonial times and just fails to deliver. The government should go an learn from Singapore.

Can we invite Chinese huns in India to make it 80% of population, get 12% Malaysians to get the right Singaporean balance, and then squeeze in a Chinese dictator at helm to fix the basic problem, make national service mandatory, including, institutionalize Chinese racism in Military, where every government form one fills in requires one to specific his/her "race" and religion. Add to that a constitutional/political framework where the Hindu dominated party wins 100% seats in parliament and distressing questions are asked of opposition inroads when 4% seats in parliament are won by opposition.

Yes then Singapore can be such a useful learning model for India. Can Can La?
I say: No can do!

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 23 Dec 2008 23:52

Arun_S wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:I dare to say that Indian way of managing (or one can say mismanaging) PSU's is striking. The PSU's use management theories of the colonial times and just fails to deliver. The government should go an learn from Singapore.

Can we invite Chinese huns in India to make it 80% of population, get 12% Malaysians to get the right Singaporean balance, and then squeeze in a Chinese dictator at helm to fix the basic problem, make national service mandatory, including, institutionalize Chinese racism in Military, where every government form one fills in requires one to specific his/her "race" and religion. Add to that a constitutional/political framework where the Hindu dominated party wins 100% seats in parliament and distressing questions are asked of opposition inroads when 4% seats in parliament are won by opposition.

Yes then Singapore can be such a useful learning model for India. Can Can La?
I say: No can do!


Take it easy yaar. Did not say that India should turn itself into Singapore, just learn to how to run PSU's

As this is a nuclear thread, I do not want to go ito details. but will post some keypoints, that I think are handicapping PSU's

Indian PSU's management model is hingly influenced by Max webers theories, thanks to the british. The British have of course reformed their PSU's and moved on.

+Promotions and pay should be based on time served, not merit:
This is to avoid internal rivalery, competition and favoritism. The problem with such a system is that it does not reward ambitious people who are achievers. In stead it breeds a culture where people are not concerned with results, rather they work hard to stay out of trouble, by avoiding difficult positions. Ambitious and cleaver people leave because they get frustrated.

+
The management should not be allowed to hire, fire and decide pay:
The idea is to create job security and "fair system". The problem is that managers are not able to push the employees, cut deadweight and hire the best. In stead the organisation will attract people looking for a "peaceful live" where they do not have to fear poor results. Many employees simply do not put in their best efforts and in stead wait for the salary every month.

There are a lot of other aspects in his management model. But it has been proven that the model in its pure form, usually create organisations that produce little. Singapore has a no nonesence approach towards PSU's . Either deliver or we will shut you down. If the managers do not deliver worldclass preforamance, they are thrown out. But on the other hand, the mangers are given a free hand to hire, fire and employ.
Also worth noting that the government employes, in countires like Japan and Taiwan draw top salary. It is highly prestigious to work for the government, but they have to PREFORM.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Arun_S » 24 Dec 2008 01:55

Rishirishi: My point is that one can't isolate one aspect of the whole, when dealing with organizational/cultural problem/baggage. There is no dearth in wishing some desirable part of one small aspect of nation and forget the supporting base that enables the nation to that feature. One also tends to ignore/wish away the warts that also equally integral part of the body of support base that give rise to the desirable part one yarns.

For example I wish Mumbai streets to to as clean as Singapore, or traffic control as in Singapore with CBD/road pricing, that I know is abstract day dreaming.

IMO Indian PSUs require a distinctly India specific way of restructuring.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Kailash » 24 Dec 2008 06:42

May be I was not very clear in my last post, the summary was that we are only improving the engineering around nuclear technology. The basic science is still coming from other researchers. And the proper way of growth is engineering following science and technology.

If we dont do indigenous research and our students dont concentrate on the cutting edge of nuclear science, we will lose the edge. We should always keep looking up to west to come up with a concept, test it, and based on what information they share we would build/engineer practical equipments etc.

Unfortunately there is not short term fix. Increasing money for universities, well paid jobs for PhDs, foreign university collaboration (inturn more funds and campus placements for advanced studies), visiting professors from world over to Indian IITs and other institutions, proper post graduate courses leading to these PhDs etc - over the period of 20 years may probably help..


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