India nuclear news and discussion

arun
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby arun » 13 Jun 2009 09:18

X Post.

A Pakistani view on the missing NPCIL employee working at the Kaiga NPP:

Proliferation worries and the missing Indian scientist

Saturday, June 13, 2009
By A Siddique

……………. The episode of the missing nuclear scientist poignantly brings out the security lapses in the Indian system of command and control; for security of personnel of the nuclear establishment is a part of the overall security matrix of the nuclear assets. US, too, recently reported a security breach of classified information related to its nuclear facilities. The emergence of these incidents and the manner of their being taken in easy stride stands in marked contrast to the prejudice faced by the Pakistan’s nuclear programme regarding the safety of its nuclear assets. :(( ………………

The News

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Philip » 13 Jun 2009 11:19

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... India.html

Top nuclear expert missing in India
One of India's leading nuclear scientists has gone missing in mysterious circumstances provoking fears he has been kidnapped for classified information.

By Barney Henderson in Mumbai
Published: 5:13PM BST 12 Jun 2009

Lokanathan Mahalingam had access to some of the country's most sensitive nuclear information and the government has ordered an inquiry into his disappearance.

Mr Mahalingam, 47, worked at the Kaiga Atomic Power Station in Karnataka, close to Project Seabird, a major military base.

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Authorities are not yet sure whether his disappearance poses a security threat and the Indian Intelligence Bureau is investigating whether he has been eaten by leopards, committed suicide, disappeared wilfully or been kidnapped.

Colleagues said that Mr Mahalingam, who works in the simulator training division of the nuclear power plant, is an introvert with few friends but no enemies.

A manhunt is under way in the 1000 acres of dense forest of the Western Ghats that surrounds the Kaiga plant.

Police played down the threat to classified information, but they have not ruled out the possibility that Mr Mahalingam has been kidnapped by a group attempting to sabotage the plant.

Five years ago, a heavily armed gang attempted to kidnap an official from India's Nuclear Power Corporation in the same forest, but he managed to escape.

"The investigation is being handled at a very high level due to the sensitive nature of the case," an investigating officer said. "At the moment it is a complete mystery and we are looking at every possibility.

"There are man-eating leopards in the jungle so that is a possibility and we are of course looking into whether he has been kidnapped too. There are four separate teams searching for clues and we hope to make a breakthrough soon."



PS:IN future,all such sensitive experts must be "tagged" when they leave the premises.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby arun » 13 Jun 2009 11:50

Kaiga-3 synchronised:

KAPP-3, the country's 17th nuclear plant, was synchronised on 14 April and has been producing power continuously since then at 95 MW, NPCIL's spokesperson A I Siddiqui said.

The reactor achieved its first criticality (ie, chain reaction producing neutrons) on 26 February and the unit was synchronised on 11 April after he Atomic Energy Regulatory Board (AERB) authorised power generation from the plant. The plant was then shut down for conducting certain tests, Siddiqui said.


Kudankulam-1 further delayed to Nov 2009:

NPCIL, however, has not been very successful with its Kudankulam power projects, whose first 1,000 MW unit is now expected to go on stream in November 2009 as against the scheduled August 2009.


Kaiga-3 synchronised to southern grid; Kudankulam may take longer: NPCIL

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Jun 2009 12:03

ramana wrote:So when is the CIRRUS replacement reactor going to be ordered?


CIRRUS will be decommissioned and the entire facility will converted to a museum roughly on similar lines to the aircraft carrier Vikrant museum.

CIRRUS will also be de cored and the core will be stored in country.

Unfortunately, the large investment in CIRRUS refurbishment and modernization which has already been undertaken will mostly go to waste as the 123 deal was not envisaged when CIRRUS upgrade was planned and completed. Some parts that can be cannibalized and used elsewhere will be moved.

A large project, very much bigger than BARC, is fast coming up in coastal AP. This will have among other things, facilities similar to CIRRUS but with a much improved design, better efficiency and greater output and will be used " for the production of medical isotopes" . This will not be a safeguarded facility. All inputs to this large and multifaceted facility is totally and completely under Indian control.

India is the only source of medical isotopes in this part of the world.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Jun 2009 12:22

ramana wrote:I thought they allowed the sniffing to let them know what the air sample was around the reactor site. So they know India knows stuff.


Sniffing not required saar. They know.

As long as the aam janatha in India or elsewhere in the world continue to aspire for a permanent US resident visa, the US will not lack for sources.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Jun 2009 12:29

Only if CIRRUS, which is responsible for upto a third of our WG Pu stockpile, has been replaced by some other method (low burn?).



Incidentally CIRRUS is now on a relatively "fast burn" mode to extract the maximum before it is decommissioned.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Jun 2009 12:52

Mr Mahalingam is a fairly low level employee who was moved to HR and training duties because he was not found appropriate for placement elsewhere. Mr Mahalingam trains some apprentices and others who work at the power plant.

Mr Mahalingam worked at the Kaiga Atomic Power Station in Karnataka. This facility is used solely for power generation and is not the repository of any state or atomic secrets. Its a profit center for the NPCIL which is headquartered in Bombay. Most of the Kaiga activities are controlled from there, like from any headquarters.


"Top nuclear expert missing in India" is a motivated and prejudiced media hype that is being perpetrated by interested parties ( US and our good neighbors, both pakis and the chinks.) and our very own DDM who is definitely being paid off.

Top nuclear expert is not something that even Mr Mahalingam would describe himself, even in his wildest dreams.

He was, in an earlier posting also found "missing" for a number of days and created a similar controversy. On his return, he claimed that he had gone to seek spiritual solace.

Let us hope that he finds the solace that he seeks and soon so that he can return to his family at the earliest.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Philip » 13 Jun 2009 14:01

Chetak,"spiritual solace" that comes packaged in a bottle what?!

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Jun 2009 19:05

Philip wrote:Chetak,"spiritual solace" that comes packaged in a bottle what?!


Philip Ji,

If it was that, things would have been much simpler.

You find these types in all organizations. Harmless but kept at a distance. Always given the simplest of tasks hoping that it would keep them fully engaged and out of everyone's hair.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Arun_S » 13 Jun 2009 19:46

chetak wrote:
ramana wrote:I thought they allowed the sniffing to let them know what the air sample was around the reactor site. So they know India knows stuff.


Sniffing not required saar. They know.

As long as the aam janatha in India or elsewhere in the world continue to aspire for a permanent US resident visa, the US will not lack for sources.

Yup. Easy to bribe a fallen soul with opportunity to be in the land of honey, milk and sex. Or shoudl I say the hype thereof.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Gerard » 13 Jun 2009 19:55

BTW

It is CIRUS not CIRRUS

Canada India Research U.S.

chetak
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Jun 2009 20:00

Gerard wrote:BTW

It is CIRUS not CIRRUS

Canada India Research U.S.


Right you are sir.

Copy paste error. :)

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Gerard » 13 Jun 2009 20:02

A large project, very much bigger than BARC, is fast coming up in coastal AP. This will have among other things, facilities similar to CIRRUS but with a much improved design, better efficiency and greater output and will be used " for the production of medical isotopes"


Will this be a pool type reactor like DHRUVA?

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Nalla Baalu » 13 Jun 2009 20:07

In an effort to undermine misplaced/mistaken strategic implications (of DDM) of Mr. Mahalingam's disappearance, please do not discount the man's expertise in his field, Reactor Operation Simulation/Training.

Acc to one of recent news reports (here), Mr. Mahalingam is Scientific Officer of Sc-G designation. From my limited knowledge it is one of the higher desgnations Central Govt officer cadre can get to. Rarely, distinguished scientists are given Sc-H designation. He is barely 50 and IMHO he could be be one of the best in his profession.

chetak wrote:Mr Mahalingam is a fairly low level employee who was moved to HR and training duties because he was not found appropriate for placement elsewhere. Mr Mahalingam trains some apprentices and others who work at the power plant.

Mr Mahalingam worked at the Kaiga Atomic Power Station in Karnataka. This facility is used solely for power generation and is not the repository of any state or atomic secrets. Its a profit center for the NPCIL which is headquartered in Bombay. Most of the Kaiga activities are controlled from there, like from any headquarters.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Jun 2009 21:05

Nalla Baalu wrote:In an effort to undermine misplaced/mistaken strategic implications (of DDM) of Mr. Mahalingam's disappearance, please do not discount the man's expertise in his field, Reactor Operation Simulation/Training.

Acc to one of recent news reports (here), Mr. Mahalingam is Scientific Officer of Sc-G designation. From my limited knowledge it is one of the higher desgnations Central Govt officer cadre can get to. Rarely, distinguished scientists are given Sc-H designation. He is barely 50 and IMHO he could be be one of the best in his profession.

chetak wrote:Mr Mahalingam is a fairly low level employee who was moved to HR and training duties because he was not found appropriate for placement elsewhere. Mr Mahalingam trains some apprentices and others who work at the power plant.

Mr Mahalingam worked at the Kaiga Atomic Power Station in Karnataka. This facility is used solely for power generation and is not the repository of any state or atomic secrets. Its a profit center for the NPCIL which is headquartered in Bombay. Most of the Kaiga activities are controlled from there, like from any headquarters.




You could do Sc G in about 14 years earlier and probably faster nowadays. Absolutely nothing to stop one from making it up the alphabetical ladder. Perks however depend solely on position / appointment and not grade.
You have many Sc G s and H s whose telephone bills are not even reimbursed. There are numerous G s and H s in all government organisations. Many do relatively low level and mundane duties because all the high profile projects and important appointments are all taken by ambitious, result producing go getters.

Nothing rarefied or particularly esoteric about these designations.
Any timeserver who keeps his nose clean can aspire and reach this grade. Its called being kicked upstairs.

There is no pyramid structure operating in any of these organisations. In due course, Mr Mahalingam may well make it to H grade after he returns and continue to train in the same place.

No body is undermining anyone's expertise or status. But training and HR are kind of mundane jobs that brighter lights avoid and some souls are shunted to for various reasons in every organisation. Fact of life. The pay of a G or even H shuts the mouth of many timeservers.

Promotions in govt service are routine and time scaled and organisations tend to play safe because of aggressive and agitated officers associations who want everyone promoted and the CAT ever ready and willing to step in and start swinging with both fists.

Promote and sideline is a well used strategy rather than jeopardise the boss's future and also drag the organization through a very public and colorful media discourse. DDM is just waiting for an opportunity to pounce on such a case, especially when it concerns the atomic energy establishment and so called "proliferation"

Certainly Mr Mahalingam would himself agree that "Top nuclear expert" is not a term that can be used to describe him ( even loosely) by any stretch of imagination.

Nor would anybody else in the Indian nuclear establishment describe him as such.

Please see this in its correct perspective as opposed to the DDM view.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby sum » 13 Jun 2009 21:59

Mr Mahalingam is a fairly low level employee who was moved to HR and training duties because he was not found appropriate for placement elsewhere. Mr Mahalingam trains some apprentices and others who work at the power plant.

Mr Mahalingam worked at the Kaiga Atomic Power Station in Karnataka. This facility is used solely for power generation and is not the repository of any state or atomic secrets. Its a profit center for the NPCIL which is headquartered in Bombay. Most of the Kaiga activities are controlled from there, like from any headquarters.

Sir, what is the approx strength of our nuclear community (both weapon + civilian scientists included)?

Must be a huge task for the IB/RAW to keep a check on so many people.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Jun 2009 22:00

They seem to have found Mr. Mahalingam's body near Kaiga dam as per News 9, a local Bangalore TV Channel.

My heart felt sympathies are with the family.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Jun 2009 22:15

sum wrote:
Mr Mahalingam is a fairly low level employee who was moved to HR and training duties because he was not found appropriate for placement elsewhere. Mr Mahalingam trains some apprentices and others who work at the power plant.

Mr Mahalingam worked at the Kaiga Atomic Power Station in Karnataka. This facility is used solely for power generation and is not the repository of any state or atomic secrets. Its a profit center for the NPCIL which is headquartered in Bombay. Most of the Kaiga activities are controlled from there, like from any headquarters.

Sir, what is the approx strength of our nuclear community (both weapon + civilian scientists included)?

Must be a huge task for the IB/RAW to keep a check on so many people.


Sum ji,

Roughly about 20,000 in the core group for R&D, operational and engineering for BARC and all the reactors.

And some many thousands in the ancillary staff all inclusive like admin, logistics etc.

A large number of people in tertiary support functions.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Nalla Baalu » 13 Jun 2009 22:39

Chetak, I appreciate your insight into career progression in Central Govt organizations.

I see where you are coming from.

chetak wrote: Please see this in its correct perspective as opposed to the DDM view.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Jun 2009 22:47

Nalla Baalu wrote:Chetak, I appreciate your insight into career progression in Central Govt organizations.

I see where you are coming from.

chetak wrote: Please see this in its correct perspective as opposed to the DDM view.



:wink:

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby arun » 13 Jun 2009 23:06


symontk
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby symontk » 14 Jun 2009 12:47

You have many Sc G s and H s whose telephone bills are not even reimbursed. There are numerous G s and H s in all government organisations. Many do relatively low level and mundane duties because all the high profile projects and important appointments are all taken by ambitious, result producing go getters


This assumption is wrong. Scientist G & H are high posts and If I am right, they exist only in Space & Nculear depts. (I am not sure about Ocean Reserach). He could have been relegated to a unimportant, mundane duties for now but for sure not a low level employee if he was Sci G. For example, VSSC director, BARC director are all Sci H.

I am not sure promotion policy but if he made it to SciG in 14 years, then he is a pretty knowledgeable person with a PhD or so

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby prashanth » 14 Jun 2009 12:49

chetak wrote:
Sniffing not required saar. They know.

As long as the aam janatha in India or elsewhere in the world continue to aspire for a permanent US resident visa, the US will not lack for sources.


Chetak ji,
Im sure reactor sites are off limits to civilians, more so the ones like kalapakkam. How could anybody make off with any information?And how competent is the aam janta technically to even gather information about serious stuff such as this? OTOH US could gather much more information from Indian media.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 14 Jun 2009 12:52

symontk wrote:
You have many Sc G s and H s whose telephone bills are not even reimbursed. There are numerous G s and H s in all government organisations. Many do relatively low level and mundane duties because all the high profile projects and important appointments are all taken by ambitious, result producing go getters


This assumption is wrong. Scientist G & H are high posts and If I am right, they exist only in Space & Nculear depts. (I am not sure about Ocean Reserach). He could have been relegated to a unimportant, mundane duties for now but for sure not a low level employee if he was Sci G. For example, VSSC director, BARC director are all Sci H.

I am not sure promotion policy but if he made it to SciG in 14 years, then he is a pretty knowledgeable person with a PhD or so



DRDO also has G and H among many other govt organisations

"Director", "Group Director" category etc is a different ball game all together.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby chetak » 14 Jun 2009 12:59

prashanth wrote:
chetak wrote:
Sniffing not required saar. They know.

As long as the aam janatha in India or elsewhere in the world continue to aspire for a permanent US resident visa, the US will not lack for sources.


Chetak ji,
Im sure reactor sites are off limits to civilians, more so the ones like kalapakkam. How could anybody make off with any information?And how competent is the aam janta technically to even gather information about serious stuff such as this? OTOH US could gather much more information from Indian media.



prasanth ji,

Like this onlee

http://www.agentsnotes.com/spycases.html

Traitors, scumbags, turncoats and "businessmen" do not respect nationality, religon or even the namak.

Who in the Indian media is nuclear savvy?

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby prashanth » 14 Jun 2009 21:22

chetak ji,
Point taken. My bad, that I didn't consider the money factor.

Who in the Indian media is nuclear savvy?


Not the TOI types. But a few like India Today, The Hindu (sometimes).

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby Gerard » 14 Jun 2009 22:08

City joins super cyclotron league
On Saturday, Salt Lake-based Variable Energy Cyclotron Centre director Bikash Sinha announced the successful completion of the Rs 100 crore project only the fifth in the world that had been stalled for years due to sanctions following the Pokhran nuclear blasts. The four other set-ups are in America and Europe.
The highly sophisticated device has a 100-tonne iron-core superconducting magnet with a magnetic field of 5 tesla (about 100,000 times earth's magnetic field) and 8 tonne of superconducting coil that is kept cooled at -269?C.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby merlin » 15 Jun 2009 13:16

chetak wrote:
ramana wrote:So when is the CIRRUS replacement reactor going to be ordered?


CIRRUS will be decommissioned and the entire facility will converted to a museum roughly on similar lines to the aircraft carrier Vikrant museum.


That won't be possible unless CIRUS is moved outside BARC as the BARC areas beyond north gate are out of bounds to the general public.

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Re: India nuclear news and discussion

Postby arun » 15 Jun 2009 14:06

All,

Past the 72.

Please do not continue to post in this thread.

Please continue posting in the new thread here.

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Admins,

Past the 72. Please lock this thread.


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