India nuclear news and discussion

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Mar 2009 03:50

India’s Nuclear Power Plans to Borrow 3 Billion Euros

Nuclear Power Corp. of India plans to raise 3 billion euros ($4 billion) in overseas debt to fund a project to be built in partnership with Areva SA, the world’s biggest maker of atomic reactors.

Mumbai-based Nuclear Power, the state-run monopoly atomic energy producer, received bids from 15 international banks, including 10 French institutions, for the loan, Chairman Shreyans Kumar Jain said in a telephone interview.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Mar 2009 03:51

Japan Says U.S. Risks Nuclear Proliferation

...in a security review published Thursday Japan's Defense Ministry criticized the U.S. for jeopardizing efforts to halt the spread of atomic weapons by agreeing to help India build nuclear power plants

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Mar 2009 04:41

Code: Select all

http://www.hindu.com/2009/03/26/stories/2009032661011300.htm $150-billion U.S. nuclear power reactors promised to Washington during negotiations for ending India’s isolation from global nuclear commerce

there it is!.. its the $150 billion promise to khan reactors!!!!

vadivelu · Post by **vadivelu** » 26 Mar 2009 05:36

renukb wrote: It will be suicidal for India to sign NPT / CTBT unless India gets permanent UNSC membership with VETO and also that India achieves the conventional warfare parity or superiority with the best of the armed forces in the world.

It is because of Russia and NAM, that India is still a sovereign and independent nation. India need not be an ungrateful nation like BD.

Missed this gem amidst the cacophony of distributed but similar BRF topics.

I am still not able to comprehend this yearning for many Indians to be a veto wielding UN power. It is really a generational issue - as pathetic as aging baby boomers resorting to erectile dysfunction drugs ( the v world will not post!) to prove something when at that age an emotional relationship will yield more value.

My Indian roots rebel and retch at the notion that Russia and NAM have anything to do with Bharathian soverignity and independence.

India does have a billion plus people and a unique character and is perhaps the only grouping of people in all human kind that has been knit together despite forces of extreme contrast but bonded by a glue of common culture and amazing accomodation to conflicting values.

Editorial in today's NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/opinion/25wed1.html

Ponder this sentiment

Mr. Obama must also declare his commitment to include all nuclear weapons in negotiated reductions — including thousands of warheads that are now held in reserve and excluded from cuts. And he must make good on promises to press the Senate to ratify the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (opponents are already quietly organizing) and the international community to adopt a pact ending production of weapons-grade nuclear fuel.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 26 Mar 2009 06:23

p_saggu wrote:Arun_S,
Where did you get the numbers for 50 KT etc from? Surely there can't be any open source reference for these numbers, and the sizes are so precise.

The 50Kt weapon has been discussed on BRF many times in last few years, and the BR Missile section for Agni Missile has an entry for that. (IIRC Dr SB Maharaj was the first to report that based on his research/interviews when he was writing the book "Armageddon Factor")
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/ ... :%20AGNI-I

As for weapon information, see the "Note" under the images.

But excellent work.

Is it possible to do something similar on the status of the Pakistani Nuclear Weapons Programme?

That was a labor of love for Bharat and its interests. Thanks for the interest in Baki-satan but I simply have no time for the now dismantled AQK H&D bums.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Mar 2009 06:34

India says lift ban on dual use items; dangles $270 bn business

Sanatanan · Post by **Sanatanan** » 26 Mar 2009 10:24

India says lift ban on dual use items; dangles $270 bn business

I request that experts in this forum may please a indicate examples of the dual-use items / technologies that India wants to import (apart from Super Computers and hi-spec 3-axis cnc machines about which I came to know from listening to a Parliamentary debate a while ago). It would also be enlightening to understand in which non-military applications these dual-use technologies are proposed to be used in India.

Cannot just the manufacturing operation that requires use of the imported dual-use tech be outsourced to that foreign country instead of seeking to acquire the technology from them under all kinds of restrictive stipulations?

For example, in which non-strategic application does India need to deploy a hi-spec 3 axis cnc machine? [As far as I remember, the Parliamentary debate did not throw light on this.] In case use of only such a machine is mandated, then, is it not possible to subcontract just that machining step to whoever is already having the requisite machine? Import of such a machined component would not be a problem since it would be specific to a non-strategic application. Like-wise for super-computer-based analyses; the computer run time could be outsourced. Again, should be no problem in this since the specific results are used only to predict weather.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 27 Mar 2009 02:00

U.S. Firms Closer to Getting Liability Protection for Indian Nuclear Projects

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 27 Mar 2009 02:05

The Albanian syndrome
By Claude Arpi

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Mar 2009 02:43

Sanatanan wrote:
India says lift ban on dual use items; dangles $270 bn business
I request that experts in this forum may please a indicate examples of the dual-use items / technologies that India wants to import (apart from Super Computers and hi-spec 3-axis cnc machines about which I came to know from listening to a Parliamentary debate a while ago). .........

Page 9 and 10:

Entity List

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Mar 2009 02:53

India US Dual Use Goldman

EAR (Export Admin Regulations) web site

negi · Post by **negi** » 27 Mar 2009 05:27

Gerard wrote:U.S. Firms Closer to Getting Liability Protection for Indian Nuclear Projects

Gurulog what does it actually mean ?

Afaik as per the GOI the onus of providing the liability protection for nuclear reactors is on the builder ; in this case is GOI hinting at giving concessions to GE/Westinghouse in exchange for waver of the ban on export of Dual Use Items and the right to reprocessing fuel
.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Mar 2009 07:21

I was under the impression that the IAEA was supposed to formulate one liability protection doc.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 27 Mar 2009 08:09

Arun_S wrote:That was a labor of love for Bharat and its interests. Thanks for the interest in Baki-satan but I simply have no time for the now dismantled AQK H&D bums.

Well even if you did not intend to do a write up on Paki-satan's nuclear programme - you just did, in as many words.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 27 Mar 2009 08:19

Sanatanan wrote:
India says lift ban on dual use items; dangles $270 bn business
For example, in which non-strategic application does India need to deploy a hi-spec 3 axis cnc machine? [As far as I remember, the Parliamentary debate did not throw light on this.] In case use of only such a machine is mandated, then, is it not possible to subcontract just that machining step to whoever is already having the requisite machine? Import of such a machined component would not be a problem since it would be specific to a non-strategic application. Like-wise for super-computer-based analyses; the computer run time could be outsourced. Again, should be no problem in this since the specific results are used only to predict weather.

I think the cost factor of outsourcing work overseas is one issue I can think of.
The issue of independence is another one that I can think of. By its very nature, dual use is at the mercy of the whims of another of nation(s).

We are a large nation, and as any large nation should, we need to be capable of accomplishing the widest possible range of tasks within our national boundary.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 28 Mar 2009 04:28

BHEL gets NPCIL order

The contract is valued at Rs. 345 crore and envisages manufacture and supply of four steam generators for use in the primary cycle of the nuclear power plant for one reactor of 700 MWe unit rating. The 700 MWe steam generator is based on the design developed by BHEL for the first 540 MWe steam generators installed at Tarapur nuclear power plant. BHEL had also earlier supplied steam generators for 220 MWe nuclear reactors installed by NPCIL.

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 28 Mar 2009 06:10

X-Posted :

National Ignition Facility Fires 192-Beam Pulse

More from NIF Site

The Mercury Laser moves toward Practical Laser Fusion

I guess its about time to start lectures on CTBT and NPT.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 29 Mar 2009 08:23

The coming nuclear renaissance

Accenture, the consulting giant, reports growing worldwide support for nuclear energy. In a survey it conducted of more than 10,000 people in 20 nations, 69 percent wanted their countries to begin or expand the use of nuclear power. Pronuclear sentiment was strongest in India (67 percent), China (62 percent), and the United States (57 percent).

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 29 Mar 2009 17:44

Iran's top nuclear negotiator Saeed Jalili visits India

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Mar 2009 23:13

No more room for manoeuvre
By Bharat Karnad

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Mar 2009 23:14

Larsen Wins 3.45 Billion Rupee Steam Generator Order

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Mar 2009 23:15

India to get first imported nuke fuel consignment this week

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 31 Mar 2009 11:12

India links CTBT with disarmament
March 30th, 2009 - 9:20 pm ICT by IANS

New Delhi, March 30 (IANS) Ahead of a meeting between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and US President Barack Obama in London, India Monday said it “won’t stand in the way” of Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT) provided it “actively contributes to nuclear disarmament”.
“We won’t stand in the way… but it should be a CTBT which actively contributes to nuclear disarmament,” Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon told reporters here when asked about India’s position on the signing of the CTBT - a key non-proliferation priority of the Obama administration.

“We are not sure if the CTBT in its present form addresses our concerns,” Menon said. “Our position remains the same and has been consistent.”

Last week, India’s former foreign secretary Shyam Saran, also prime minister’s special envoy on climate change and nuclear issues, asserted that New Delhi will not sign the CTBT unless the world moves “categorically towards nuclear disarmament in a credible time-frame”.

Saran acknowledged that the CTBT is “an issue that has been seen as potentially a contentious one in our relations with the new US administration”.

“India has been a consistent votary of a CTBT but did not sign the CTBT as it eventually emerged because it was not explicitly linked to the goal of nuclear disarmament,” Saran said at The Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank.

But if “the world moves categorically towards nuclear disarmament in a credible time-frame, the Indo-US differences over the CTBT would probably recede into the background”, Saran said.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 01 Apr 2009 12:37

India's first nuclear power units completes 40 years tomorrow
Tuesday, March 31, 2009

NFC receives 60 tonnes uranium fuel from France
Wednesday, April 1, 2009

Jayaraj said the fuel would be processed in the designated fuel plants at the NFC by converting uranium ore concentrated into nuclear grade uranium dioxide powder and then compacted in the form of cylindrical pellets.

These pellets will then stacked and encapsulated in thin walled tubes of zirconium alloy which will be sealed by resistance welding using end plugs, a technology which has been innovated in India.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Apr 2009 01:27

Nuclear issues — Face-off with Obama Administration - G. Parthasarathy

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 02 Apr 2009 01:37

India May Sign Nuclear Liability Accord After Polls, Saran Says

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 02 Apr 2009 03:08

JINSA Urges Full Implementation of U.S.-India Civil Nuclear Cooperation

The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) today called on the Obama Administration to strengthen the critically important U.S.-India relationship, citing the strategic importance in countering the nuclear threat from Iran.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Apr 2009 02:47

Punjab disability 'uranium link'

Tests on children with cerebral palsy or mental disabilities in the Indian state of Punjab have revealed high levels of uranium.

The result has baffled the authorities as there are no known sources of uranium in Punjab.

Uranium deforms kids in Faridkot

Panel to probe uranium in kids

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 03 Apr 2009 04:03

Mein Gott!

Check the water system. TSPians could be upto no good attempting radioactive poisoning and the like. This is so scary!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Apr 2009 04:37

India's Saha Institute Orders Cray Supercomputer

SINP is the first customer in Cray's Asia Pacific region to acquire the same computing architecture as the petaflops system Cray recently installed at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Apr 2009 05:51

Yeah Sudhir ji it might be lifafa journalism too trying to put a spanner in India's nuclear programme (i.e. contamination might not be due to Uranium per se but some other heavy metal ..).

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 03 Apr 2009 06:25

Uranium deforms kids in Faridkot

Don't know what to make of this report, unfortunately I have seen many TOI reports where, little more than hoaxes, which could have been very easily caught if the reporter/editor did a little cross checking, were published as news item. There was news of baba xyz living (and thriving) on sunlight alone (with no food) for decades going to NASA to give lectures... or student pqr "topping" exam given by NASA (Took a taxi from UP to London, and stayed at Buckingham Palace - no less !) and scoring more marks than APK and Chawla..

Anyway would be interested if the story is checked.

Also, Gerard or Shivji may have expert opinion, but "radioactive" part of poising in natural (or depleted) uranium can virtually be ignored. (As said before - alpha rays would not penetrate skin or a few inches of air and even if it was eaten, harm due to "radiation" part would be negligible compare to chemical part). Heavy metal poisoning (similar to lead) is there but from what I know, the Uranium absorbed in gut is very small (< 1%) so most of it will come out....Don't know how that compares with other heavy metals (like lead/mercury etc..)... may be some expert give an opinion (or I might check interntet) ..First thought .. Uranium concentration should be pretty high and must have gone in the food to produce that much posining.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 03 Apr 2009 06:48

From CMAJ:
Uranium in drinking water

Background: Uranium is a naturally occurring radionuclide in granite and other mineral deposits. It enters local water, air and food supplies in varying concentrations through leaching from natural deposits, its release in mill tailings, emissions from nuclear industry, dissolution in phosphate fertilizers and combustion of coal and other fuels. The average total daily uranium intake by a 70-kg adult in Canada is estimated to be 2.6 µg, food accounting for 77% (2.0 µg) and water for most of the remainder.1 However, great regional variation in exposure levels has been reported. Uranium levels in samples of Canadian drinking water have ranged from nondetectable in certain treated municipal water samples to exceptionally high (> 700 µg/L) in some private groundwater supplies.1

Natural uranium consists almost entirely of the uranium 238 isotope in its hexavalent state, which commonly associates with oxygen as the uranyl ion UO22+. It decays by both alpha (i.e., nucleus of a helium atom) and gamma (i.e., high-energy photon) emissions. Relative to other radionuclides, natural uranium has a low level of radioactivity because of its extremely long half-life (4.5 billion years).

Although there is a risk of radiological toxicity from orally ingested natural uranium, the principal health effects are chemical toxicity. Uranyl compounds have a high affinity for phosphate, carboxyl and hydroxyl groups and readily combine with proteins and nucleotides to form stable complexes. The skeleton and kidney are the primary sites of uranium accumulation; little is found in the liver.1

On average, 1%–2% of ingested uranium is absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract in adults. The absorbed uranium rapidly enters the bloodstream and forms a diffusible ionic uranyl hydrogen carbonate complex (UO2HCO3+) in equilibrium with a nondiffusible uranyl albumin complex. In the skeleton the uranyl ion replaces calcium in the hydroxyapatite complex of the bone crystal. Once equilibrium is attained in the skeleton, uranium is excreted in urine and feces. Under alkaline conditions, the uranyl hydrogen carbonate complex is stable and is excreted. When the pH drops, the complex dissociates and binds to the cellular proteins in the tubular wall. The half-life of uranium in the rat kidney is about 15 days, and considerably longer (300–5000 days) in the skeleton.1

....radionuclide found in uranium ore, but the estimated excess risk is considered to be insignificant compared with background lifetime risk. Thus, the maximum acceptable concentration of uranium in drinking water in Canada is calculated on the basis of chemical not radiological toxicity criteria....

Clinical management: Signs of acute uranium toxicity include piloerection, significant weight loss and hemorrhages in the eyes, legs and nose.
<snip>

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 03 Apr 2009 07:29

Gerard wrote:India's Saha Institute Orders Cray Supercomputer
SINP is the first customer in Cray's Asia Pacific region to acquire the same computing architecture as the petaflops system Cray recently installed at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

So the CRAY computers start flowing in eh? Was this America's way of reassuring India that the ban on nuclear testing can be made up through simulations, of course not everything can be tested from what I have read so far. I am surprised that we went in for teraflop CRAY when we already have developed teraflop computers, 117 tflops to be exact while this CRAY is only 13 tflops...Couldn't come up with a new HP cluster spending the same money we gave to the Americans when we procured the CRAY...

a very old link, would have been posted in BR a long time back itself, but very relevant to this discussion...also note the term scientific colonialism in the article

http://www.angelfire.com/ak/sanjeevsingh/param.html

Sanatanan · Post by **Sanatanan** » 03 Apr 2009 09:36

Yogi_G wrote:
Gerard wrote:India's Saha Institute Orders Cray Supercomputer
SINP is the first customer in Cray's Asia Pacific region to acquire the same computing architecture as the petaflops system Cray recently installed at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

So the CRAY computers start flowing in eh? Was this America's way of reassuring India that the ban on nuclear testing can be made up through simulations, of course not everything can be tested from what I have read so far. I am surprised that we went in for teraflop CRAY when we already have developed teraflop computers, 117 tflops to be exact while this CRAY is only 13 tflops...Couldn't come up with a new HP cluster spending the same money we gave to the Americans when we procured the CRAY...

a very old link, would have been posted in BR a long time back itself, but very relevant to this discussion...also note the term scientific colonialism in the article

http://www.angelfire.com/ak/sanjeevsingh/param.html

Please clarify:

Do the main processor, any other chips and/or any hardware used in PARAM 10000 need to be imported? If so, are the specifications of these such that they fall under "dual-use" category?

TIA.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 03 Apr 2009 10:49

So the CRAY computers start flowing in eh? Was this America's way of reassuring India that the ban on nuclear testing can be made up through simulations, of course not everything can be tested from what I have read so far. I am surprised that we went in for teraflop CRAY when we already have developed teraflop computers, 117 tflops to be exact while this CRAY is only 13 tflops...Couldn't come up with a new HP cluster spending the same money we gave to the Americans when we procured the CRAY...

Using CRAY for nuclear test simulation, you got to be in the planet of Houristan

Since when has Chahca given up on end user licence and intrusive inspection on those dustbin class CRAY's ? May be I am not reading the right newspapers hawking such shuddha snake oil from the factory of charmer Mand Mohan

Saha Institute can use the Cray to crying research on Indian nuclear fusion electricity .

------
Spell error corrected to : planet

Sanatanan · Post by **Sanatanan** » 03 Apr 2009 13:51

From India Journal
France Competing With US on Nuke Business in India
Date Submitted: Thu Apr 02, 2009

WASHINGTON, D.C. - French Prime Minister Francois Fillone has conceded that his country is in competition with the US with regard to bagging commercial deals for the civilian nuclear plants in India.

“Yes, we are competing with the United States in terms of our nuclear agreement with India,” Fillone said on March 25 in response to a question at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a Washington-based think tank.

"Let me tell you that this competition will go on to the end. That is to say, until one of us has won—or both of us maybe. There could be two winners. But we are often competing with the United States,” he said after his address to the Carnegie on global economic crisis.

Fillone said this means that both the countries have performing companies. Companies from both the US and France and other major powers are vying for a slice in the pie of what is estimated to be multi-billion dollar market in India.

“In terms of nuclear power, everybody knows that we are very performing. France chose a long, long time ago to use nuclear power. We have never changed. This choice of nuclear power allowed us to constantly improve on the efficiency of our nuclear systems both in terms of security and in terms of financial and energetic yield. We do not regret having made this choice today,” Fillone said.

“Of course, we are going to keep on fighting and competing loyally with the United States in order to supply India with nuclear power plants for the future—and high-speed trains,” Fillone said.

“You forgot high-speed trains,” the French Prime Minister said in lighter vein. France is known for its high speed train and is eyeing India as the Indian Railways plans to enter the next phase of introducing high-speed trains in the country.

Following the successful conclusion of the Indo-US civilian nuclear deal and signing of India-specific safeguard agreements with India, New Delhi is now planning on thousands of megawatts of nuclear power in the next decade. It has already conveyed a letter of intent up to 10,000 MW of nuclear power reactors in India. This is expected to translate into a business of $150 billion worth of projects for US companies. (PTI)

I think what he means to say is that "India would be made the loser".
JMT

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 03 Apr 2009 19:54

Arun_S wrote:
So the CRAY computers start flowing in eh? Was this America's way of reassuring India that the ban on nuclear testing can be made up through simulations, of course not everything can be tested from what I have read so far. I am surprised that we went in for teraflop CRAY when we already have developed teraflop computers, 117 tflops to be exact while this CRAY is only 13 tflops...Couldn't come up with a new HP cluster spending the same money we gave to the Americans when we procured the CRAY...
Using CRAY for nuclear test simulation, you got to be in the plat of Houristan Since when has Chahca given up on end user licence and intrusive inspection on those dustbin class CRAY's ? May be I am not reading the right newspapers hawking such shuddha snake oil from the factory of charmer Mand Mohan

Saha Institute can use the Cray to crying research on Indian nuclear fusion electricity .

Arun_S, what would be the minimum requirements needed in terms of computing power for nuclear test simulation? I was just thinking aloud on the CRAY being used for the simulation as the timing suggests so, the comps start flowing in with the fuel and the reactor talks....

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 03 Apr 2009 20:03

Please clarify:

Do the main processor, any other chips and/or any hardware used in PARAM 10000 need to be imported? If so, are the specifications of these such that they fall under "dual-use" category?

Yes they do, most of them are off the shelf products. The very fact that we were able to import them in '99 (after sanctions), build padma and sell it to Russia and Singapore suggests to me that they are off the watch list for dual usage items. But again Guru log please confirm....

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 03 Apr 2009 23:22

Yogi_G wrote:
Arun_S wrote:Using CRAY for nuclear test simulation, you got to be in the planet of Houristan Since when has Chahca given up on end user licence and intrusive inspection on those dustbin class CRAY's ? May be I am not reading the right newspapers hawking such shuddha snake oil from the factory of charmer Mand Mohan

Saha Institute can use the Cray to crying research on Indian nuclear fusion electricity .
Arun_S, what would be the minimum requirements needed in terms of computing power for nuclear test simulation? I was just thinking aloud on the CRAY being used for the simulation as the timing suggests so, the comps start flowing in with the fuel and the reactor talks....

For the minimum, one needs to go to nearby dump yard to salvage a Pentium-III processor, your new laptop will be an overkill.

BTW only some time ago the US prevented export to India of any computer with > 10 MFLOP processing power to prevent its use in nuclear explosion simulation.

IOW processing power is no more issue in simulating nuclear explosion to sufficient accuracy, the software and physical parameters that go into the software are issues for a wannabe nuclear state in making a sufficiently efficient N wpn design. Making a bum after the design is another matter.