Intelligence & National Security Discussion

dinesha
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby dinesha » 08 Jul 2018 23:53

dinesha wrote:Rabinder Singh, spy who defected to US, is no more: Double agent lived his last years as a remorseful recluse
https://www.firstpost.com/india/rabinde ... 88341.html
The double agent passed away sometime in late 2016 in a road accident in Maryland, informed government sources said.

Road accident sounds so Raw...Russian. Hopefully.

krishna_krishna
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 09 Jul 2018 00:12

RoyG wrote:
99.9% of Indian Americans wouldn't recognize him by face or name. He had $, American lifestyle, etc. so he proly died happy. If it's this easy to defect, I would do it too. Indian gov doesn't seem to bothered about it either so nothing to feel guilty about.


Yes proly like Snowden, William Martin and Bernon Mitchell and list goes on for yankee hall of fame. Just curious do you have source that quotes he died happily or Indian gov didn't do anything about it or he appeared in your dreams ?


Neshant
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Neshant » 09 Jul 2018 00:52

dinesha wrote:
dinesha wrote:Rabinder Singh, spy who defected to US, is no more: Double agent lived his last years as a remorseful recluse
https://www.firstpost.com/india/rabinde ... 88341.html

Road accident sounds so Raw...Russian. Hopefully.



Maybe the CIA got rid of him before he turned too remoseful.

Anyway he's (supposedly) gone.

I wonder what his kids think of him as a traitor to his motherland.

RoyG
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 09 Jul 2018 02:37

krishna_krishna wrote:
RoyG wrote:
99.9% of Indian Americans wouldn't recognize him by face or name. He had $, American lifestyle, etc. so he proly died happy. If it's this easy to defect, I would do it too. Indian gov doesn't seem to bothered about it either so nothing to feel guilty about.


Yes proly like Snowden, William Martin and Bernon Mitchell and list goes on for yankee hall of fame. Just curious do you have source that quotes he died happily or Indian gov didn't do anything about it or he appeared in your dreams ?


Well its true most Indians in US wouldn't recognize him. It's been years and Indian Americans could care less. Do you disagree?

He had American family, lifestyle, etc. Do you really think he died unhappy? Most Indians wouldn't trade american citizenship for anything. Everything is just better here. Indians aren't rushing back to India in record numbers.

Indian gov didn't do anything. What are you going on about? They had him under tight surveillance and he 'slipped' through. Look at the damn article.

sum
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 09 Jul 2018 06:54

Intersting article though bit dated:
The Life Of An Indian Spy

The part which caught my eye:
Despite that, out of all the people, Nath speaks most freely. Probably because he is the only person who knows where I live; not only in the city but also the ancestral home in the village. “Deaths are a very rare occurrence. Everything can be handled by negotiations. At most it'll come to barter…they won't hang him (Jadhav)” Nath says, referring to Habib Zahir, the former army colonel from Pakistan that went ‘missing'. Professions that deal with death often find a way to desensitise themselves from it. Doctors call it ‘conked off': Verb, passive. Spooks call it ‘bumped off': Verb, active, third person.

krishna_krishna
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 09 Jul 2018 09:10

RoyG wrote:He had American family, lifestyle, etc. Do you really think he died unhappy? Most Indians wouldn't trade american citizenship for anything. Everything is just better here. Indians aren't rushing back to India in record numbers.

Indian gov didn't do anything. What are you going on about? They had him under tight surveillance and he 'slipped' through. Look at the damn article.


You have serious blinders on for your sense of yanqui super povvah status in the current world. Here is my too cents before I move on, if what you say is so great about American citizenship why would someone like Snowden and others I mentioned above in the yanqui hall of fame would defect ?, America is a declining super power and you would be suprised how many americans believe in american dream. It is your wet dream like you have been abusing Indian soldiers and martyrs earlier, if you engage in serious analysis not like your friends in deep state who could not find zilch about pokhran tests and were caught pants down and how they produced Iraqi WMD theory out of the where sun never shines that such have been legendary shining stars that shows your glory across globe you will find that truth is not what you suggested.

I am posting this summary based on my reading of the book "Escape to nowhere" by Amar Bhushan of whatever my old memory could recall (RAW officer in charge of the investigation of this espionage case and who caught this ********) he has mentioned day by day update of how he was caught, how he got investigated and how he managed to escape :

During his stint at the head of the agency's South-East Asia division, Rabinder continued to seek information from other departments within the agency. This conduct aroused the suspicions of at least one mid-ranking official within the organization, S Chandrasekhar, who alerted the agency's counter-intelligence wing in January 2004. Rabinder was placed under intensive surveillance by the CIW for nearly four months. There is day by day encounter on how things were squeezed and important reports were taken away from his access, if you read the book you will find his that his daily routine was to do social engineering and get information from other guys and then copy every report that he got form other colleagues for their massa masters .Once the suspicion was confirmed his house and office were bugged and The investigation was carried on for long because idea was to get to bottom of the ring and get as many guys as possible that Amar Bhushan writes ones of the the reason for not letting him behind bars sooner than desired. He writes once you catch mole he is useless you can devise the strategy to nullify him, however idea behind such operation is to get really people behind the scenes and for that you have to wait.

Once it was confirmed he used to work for usa and operated out of Nepal whose handler was David Vacala,( who as per this report now works for a Florida-based intelligence and defence services training company).Even Rabinder knew something was wrong and was very worried based on the observation of him in office and home but could not/did not stop making copies since he had to make money(or do as his handlers asked) and could not nail out the exact thing wrong. There were also drill done to check the bags of people going home and removing anything they took home, his bags were returned after removing agency documents everyday since the investigation progressed just to show that it was done for everyone.It is here important to put one more thing about his personal life, his wife was a high maintenance lady and her expenses were legendary so I see no exception that guy did it for money. It is also interesting on how he gave prep talks to his kids to love the motherland and all (based on recordings of his calls to kids) and live a respectable and honorable life. He had a cousin (a lady) could not recall a name but was part of massa deep state who had a role in his recruitment too.

The story on how he came to know ,Amar Bhushan claims that he was alerted by insider that was to be arrested next morning, there were guys that waited outside his home and was watched but he disguised as his friends who visited him and slipped away in their car for the dinner. He took away the computer through which he used to upload these documents.

Rabinder Singh successfully escaped because certain senior officials in the agency and government were complicit in his getaway. The NSA asked then R&AW chief CD Sahay not to arrest Rabinder Singh because he claimed an adverse impact on the Lok Sabha elections, held between April 20 and May 10, 2004 (Again utter bull crap) . Alerted by the surveillance, Rabinder and his wife Parminder slipped away to Nepal to their handler (or conduit) David Vacala. Vacala made a mistake by booking hotel rooms in Nepalganj in his own name and subsequently, flight tickets purchased for Rabinder Singh and his wife were also billed to his address at the US embassy in Kathmandu. Here theywere put up at a CIA safe house the couple were given new passports that showed them to be US citizens 'Rajpal Prasad Sharma' and 'Deepa Kumar Sharma' in Nepal as they boarded a flight from Kathmandu to Washington on May 5, 2004 Singh (and not 7 May as quoted in the first post article). NSA brajesh Mishra makes me womit, he was utter sold out there are many the stories of about his parties in nyc with strippers available on the net .

Regarding his recruitment his recruitment stems from US agency's failure of the CIA to detect India's 1998 Pokharan nuclear tests. The CIA, heavily reliant on technical intelligence for picking up signs of activity at test sites, then declared its intent to 'recruit agents in every field and department of the Indian government'. Interestingly in another book by RK Yadav (Mission RAW) he quotes another reason as mole by the CIA had to do with the US spy agency's need for intelligence in the run-up to the March 2003 invasion on Saddam Hussein's Iraq.'Operation Iraqi Freedom' was preceded by a year-long campaign where the US built up world opinion that Saddam Hussain's alleged development of nuclear and biological weapons and proximity to Al Qaeda made him a threat to the US. This was around the time, Yadav says, Rabinder Singh was on a 'spying spree' inside R&AW headquarters and worked for unspecified amounts of money which his handlers paid him.

Its funny because even after recruiting such talent see-aye-yeah cooked up a story about Iraq which is now legend. Once he escaped, through Nepal sources RAW put all pieces in puzzle. His escape was truly to nowhere as claimed in the book he was left in the sun with no monies coming, once the cover was blown on where he was hiding massa could not give him asylum. He was sidelined like so many massa spies in Russia living like an animal so to claim that he lived a prosperous live in Lala land and died peacefully is bull, this is from Open source information from guys who were directly involved with the case unless you have better sources to refute I would keep your feelings, your supremacy crap and understanding of patriotism of Indians to yourself.

Neshant
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Neshant » 09 Jul 2018 13:41

RoyG wrote:He had American family, lifestyle, etc. Do you really think he died unhappy?


I'd be willing to bet he did die unhappy.
Also nobody can be sure he died naturally as opposed to getting bumped off by his cia host - especially if he even hinted at feeling any sense of remorse.
You can be sure they had him under surveillance 24x7 tapping all his lines of communication and then some.
After all, he was expendable to them and being a foreign traitor, hardly anyone they needed in any of their establishments nor would ever trust.

Would you like that lifestyle of being under surveillance and not knowing when you might be terminated maybe along with your family members? I don't think so. Once he gave up his secrets, he would have had no further value to them.

Worse yet, any discussion with India about military cooperation or arm sales could bring up his status as a reminder of US having targetted India with such espionage operations. Not only was he then of no use to his host, his very existence would be a liability giving them all the incentives to bump him off.

What you are thinking is he'd be entitled to some ideallic life - without thinking any further. You'd make a good "useful idiot" to milk for info and then bump off.

Indian gov didn't do anything. What are you going on about? They had him under tight surveillance and he 'slipped' through. Look at the damn article.


How do you know it wasn't part of the plan to let him slip away?
They supposedly had him under surveillance for a while and knew his contacts.
I'd be careful with assumptions based only on media reports.

ramana
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 10 Jul 2018 20:58

dinesha wrote:
dinesha wrote:Rabinder Singh, spy who defected to US, is no more: Double agent lived his last years as a remorseful recluse
https://www.firstpost.com/india/rabinde ... 88341.html

Road accident sounds so Raw...Russian. Hopefully.



Some one can google search accident reports in Maryland in late 2016 say from 1 September to 31 December to see any reports.

RoyG
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 11 Jul 2018 00:24

Neshant wrote:
RoyG wrote:He had American family, lifestyle, etc. Do you really think he died unhappy?


I'd be willing to bet he did die unhappy.
Also nobody can be sure he died naturally as opposed to getting bumped off by his cia host - especially if he even hinted at feeling any sense of remorse.
You can be sure they had him under surveillance 24x7 tapping all his lines of communication and then some.
After all, he was expendable to them and being a foreign traitor, hardly anyone they needed in any of their establishments nor would ever trust.

Would you like that lifestyle of being under surveillance and not knowing when you might be terminated maybe along with your family members? I don't think so. Once he gave up his secrets, he would have had no further value to them.

Worse yet, any discussion with India about military cooperation or arm sales could bring up his status as a reminder of US having targetted India with such espionage operations. Not only was he then of no use to his host, his very existence would be a liability giving them all the incentives to bump him off.

What you are thinking is he'd be entitled to some ideallic life - without thinking any further. You'd make a good "useful idiot" to milk for info and then bump off.

Indian gov didn't do anything. What are you going on about? They had him under tight surveillance and he 'slipped' through. Look at the damn article.


How do you know it wasn't part of the plan to let him slip away?
They supposedly had him under surveillance for a while and knew his contacts.
I'd be careful with assumptions based only on media reports.


Bumping off agents who defected to you and reside in your own territory is a stupid move. It sets a bad example for others wanting to defect so I don't buy it.

American lifestyle is quite good. He wasn't living in poverty or anything and probably got rewarded quite handsomely for selling secrets for years. If I could get away with it, I would do it in a heart beat. Nothing beats an american citizenship. All these people saying that they would rather live in India are lying. There is nothing great about India anymore. It's hot, stinky, polluted, the public restrooms are terrible, etc. It's a cesspool. I think its worth the risk if you are looking at only 5-10 years of jail time only. With the judicial system the way it is you could proly blackmail a senior who shares whiskey with a politician and get supervised release. Gupta got caught selling secrets to Pak IB agents and she got a slap on the wrist.

An intelligence officer some years back mentioned that he died in a car accident so this is old news for me.

RoyG
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 11 Jul 2018 00:36

krishna_krishna wrote:
RoyG wrote:He had American family, lifestyle, etc. Do you really think he died unhappy? Most Indians wouldn't trade american citizenship for anything. Everything is just better here. Indians aren't rushing back to India in record numbers.

Indian gov didn't do anything. What are you going on about? They had him under tight surveillance and he 'slipped' through. Look at the damn article.


You have serious blinders on for your sense of yanqui super povvah status in the current world. Here is my too cents before I move on, if what you say is so great about American citizenship why would someone like Snowden and others I mentioned above in the yanqui hall of fame would defect ?, America is a declining super power and you would be suprised how many americans believe in american dream. It is your wet dream like you have been abusing Indian soldiers and martyrs earlier, if you engage in serious analysis not like your friends in deep state who could not find zilch about pokhran tests and were caught pants down and how they produced Iraqi WMD theory out of the where sun never shines that such have been legendary shining stars that shows your glory across globe you will find that truth is not what you suggested.

I am posting this summary based on my reading of the book "Escape to nowhere" by Amar Bhushan of whatever my old memory could recall (RAW officer in charge of the investigation of this espionage case and who caught this ********) he has mentioned day by day update of how he was caught, how he got investigated and how he managed to escape :

During his stint at the head of the agency's South-East Asia division, Rabinder continued to seek information from other departments within the agency. This conduct aroused the suspicions of at least one mid-ranking official within the organization, S Chandrasekhar, who alerted the agency's counter-intelligence wing in January 2004. Rabinder was placed under intensive surveillance by the CIW for nearly four months. There is day by day encounter on how things were squeezed and important reports were taken away from his access, if you read the book you will find his that his daily routine was to do social engineering and get information from other guys and then copy every report that he got form other colleagues for their massa masters .Once the suspicion was confirmed his house and office were bugged and The investigation was carried on for long because idea was to get to bottom of the ring and get as many guys as possible that Amar Bhushan writes ones of the the reason for not letting him behind bars sooner than desired. He writes once you catch mole he is useless you can devise the strategy to nullify him, however idea behind such operation is to get really people behind the scenes and for that you have to wait.

Once it was confirmed he used to work for usa and operated out of Nepal whose handler was David Vacala,( who as per this report now works for a Florida-based intelligence and defence services training company).Even Rabinder knew something was wrong and was very worried based on the observation of him in office and home but could not/did not stop making copies since he had to make money(or do as his handlers asked) and could not nail out the exact thing wrong. There were also drill done to check the bags of people going home and removing anything they took home, his bags were returned after removing agency documents everyday since the investigation progressed just to show that it was done for everyone.It is here important to put one more thing about his personal life, his wife was a high maintenance lady and her expenses were legendary so I see no exception that guy did it for money. It is also interesting on how he gave prep talks to his kids to love the motherland and all (based on recordings of his calls to kids) and live a respectable and honorable life. He had a cousin (a lady) could not recall a name but was part of massa deep state who had a role in his recruitment too.

The story on how he came to know ,Amar Bhushan claims that he was alerted by insider that was to be arrested next morning, there were guys that waited outside his home and was watched but he disguised as his friends who visited him and slipped away in their car for the dinner. He took away the computer through which he used to upload these documents.

Rabinder Singh successfully escaped because certain senior officials in the agency and government were complicit in his getaway. The NSA asked then R&AW chief CD Sahay not to arrest Rabinder Singh because he claimed an adverse impact on the Lok Sabha elections, held between April 20 and May 10, 2004 (Again utter bull crap) . Alerted by the surveillance, Rabinder and his wife Parminder slipped away to Nepal to their handler (or conduit) David Vacala. Vacala made a mistake by booking hotel rooms in Nepalganj in his own name and subsequently, flight tickets purchased for Rabinder Singh and his wife were also billed to his address at the US embassy in Kathmandu. Here theywere put up at a CIA safe house the couple were given new passports that showed them to be US citizens 'Rajpal Prasad Sharma' and 'Deepa Kumar Sharma' in Nepal as they boarded a flight from Kathmandu to Washington on May 5, 2004 Singh (and not 7 May as quoted in the first post article). NSA brajesh Mishra makes me womit, he was utter sold out there are many the stories of about his parties in nyc with strippers available on the net .

Regarding his recruitment his recruitment stems from US agency's failure of the CIA to detect India's 1998 Pokharan nuclear tests. The CIA, heavily reliant on technical intelligence for picking up signs of activity at test sites, then declared its intent to 'recruit agents in every field and department of the Indian government'. Interestingly in another book by RK Yadav (Mission RAW) he quotes another reason as mole by the CIA had to do with the US spy agency's need for intelligence in the run-up to the March 2003 invasion on Saddam Hussein's Iraq.'Operation Iraqi Freedom' was preceded by a year-long campaign where the US built up world opinion that Saddam Hussain's alleged development of nuclear and biological weapons and proximity to Al Qaeda made him a threat to the US. This was around the time, Yadav says, Rabinder Singh was on a 'spying spree' inside R&AW headquarters and worked for unspecified amounts of money which his handlers paid him.

Its funny because even after recruiting such talent see-aye-yeah cooked up a story about Iraq which is now legend. Once he escaped, through Nepal sources RAW put all pieces in puzzle. His escape was truly to nowhere as claimed in the book he was left in the sun with no monies coming, once the cover was blown on where he was hiding massa could not give him asylum. He was sidelined like so many massa spies in Russia living like an animal so to claim that he lived a prosperous live in Lala land and died peacefully is bull, this is from Open source information from guys who were directly involved with the case unless you have better sources to refute I would keep your feelings, your supremacy crap and understanding of patriotism of Indians to yourself.


I love America just like many BRFites. This whole India business is just time-pass for many of us after work. Just come home and sit on the sofa with the TV running in your boxers/PJs and root for your fav team (India) on your IPAD/Laptop. But ask any of us to leave and we'll laugh at you. No way in hell. If you came to America, I doubt you would leave either. You cant beat the quality of life. Also, if you don't like America you can try Canada. It's a great place as well. Can you really blame Rabinder Singh? He's a selfish guy. Don't blame him if he gets away with it. Blame the system that encouraged him.

Picklu
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Picklu » 11 Jul 2018 03:17

RoyG wrote:
krishna_krishna wrote:
.......


I love America just like many BRFites. This whole India business is just time-pass for many of us after work. Just come home and sit on the sofa with the TV running in your boxers/PJs and root for your fav team (India) on your IPAD/Laptop. But ask any of us to leave and we'll laugh at you. No way in hell. If you came to America, I doubt you would leave either. You cant beat the quality of life. Also, if you don't like America you can try Canada. It's a great place as well. Can you really blame Rabinder Singh? He's a selfish guy. Don't blame him if he gets away with it. Blame the system that encouraged him.


There are many (including me, Negi, Singha, Dileep and many more per open declaration in this forum itself) who has left. To each, his (or her) own I guess.

Thank you for rooting for your fav team, I for one, am deeply grateful.

krishna_krishna
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 11 Jul 2018 07:08

Picklu wrote:
Thank you for rooting for your fav team, I for one, am deeply grateful.



+100

Ankit Desai
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Ankit Desai » 11 Jul 2018 07:34

Indian intelligence infiltrated IS ring to track, arrest Afghan suicide bomber sent to hit Delhi

The operation included the Indian “plant” supplying the IS operative with explosives — without triggers — and even arranging for his accommodation in the capital.


In an audacious counter-intelligence operation, unprecedented in its scale and scope, Indian security agencies infiltrated an Islamic State ring to thwart a bid by an IS Afghan suicide bomber to strike New Delhi.

The operation included the Indian “plant” supplying the IS operative with explosives — without triggers — and even arranging for his accommodation in the capital.

The arrest by Indian agencies happened in New Delhi around September 2017 but it’s only now that top diplomatic and intelligence sources have confirmed details to The Indian Express.

The IS operative, who lived in New Delhi in the guise of an engineering student, was flown to Afghanistan days after he was arrested and is, at present, understood to be in custody at a key US military base in Afghanistan.

In fact, so “high value” is this Afghan bomber that his confessions and interrogations are seen as one of the possible reasons behind the string of successes achieved recently by US forces against the Taliban in Afghanistan, sources said.

Sources have told The Indian Express that an 18-month-long surveillance operation in Afghanistan, Dubai and New Delhi yielded intelligence that a group of 12 IS operatives were being sent after training in Pakistan to carry out bomb attacks in the region.

One of them, an Afghan national in his mid-twenties and the “son of a wealthy businessman,” was given New Delhi as his target for a suicide attack.

Sources said that as part of his undercover “mission,” he got himself admitted to a private engineering college on the outskirts of the capital, along the Delhi-Faridabad highway. Initially, he lived in the college hostel but, sources said, he subsequently rented a ground-floor apartment in Lajpat Nagar,

As many as 80 Indian investigators and security personnel had to be deployed for “physical surveillance” during the peak one-month period of the operation to ensure that the target was never out of sight and did not slip away, sources said.

There is an indication, from his questioning, that the suicide bomb attack in the Manchester arena in UK on May 22, 2017, killing 23 people, could have been triggered by a member of the same IS group which included the Afghan picked up from New Delhi.

Sources said that the type of explosives he demanded in New Delhi were similar to the ones used in the Manchester blast.

There is information that the IS operation began with sleuths of the Research & Analysis Wing (R&AW) tracking a suspicious transfer of $50,000 by individuals under their watch from Dubai to a location in Afghanistan and then linking the dots with intelligence shared by US about New Delhi being a possible target in the near future for an IS strike.

It was at this stage that a decision was taken to infiltrate the IS circuit. With a flow of telephone intercepts giving away details of the arrival of the bomber in New Delhi, a suitable candidate was picked for befriending the Afghan.

Sources said that the Indian operative was the one who located the Lajpat Nagar safehouse for the Afghan, though initially a third-floor place was arranged, this was later changed to a ground-floor apartment.

This Indian agent was finally tasked by the IS to arrange for explosives for the New Delhi strike at which stage, a multi-agency surveillance ring was thrown around the Lajpat Nagar house, sources said.

It is now known that the IS saboteur visited the Delhi Airport, Ansal Plaza mall, a Vasant Kunj mall as well as the South Extension market, may be among other places in New Delhi, as reconnaissance for the strike.

Constant feedback was being given by him to his handlers in Afghanistan.

Another twist to the dramatic early-morning swoop was the fact that the consignment of explosives and improvised devices was delivered to the Afghan by the Indian without any triggers as the ultimate subterfuge.

Those in the know of the ensuing interrogation of the IS bomber picked up from New Delhi say that besides Indian counter-intelligence experts, US agents also joined the interrogation. Sources said his confessions have helped US forces strike at many Taliban targets in Afghanistan and Pakistan.


-Ankit

sum
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 11 Jul 2018 07:54

^^ Heartwarming stuff.
Well done to all the guys involved

Prem
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Prem » 11 Jul 2018 08:24

sum wrote:^^ Heartwarming stuff.
Well done to all the guys involved


May be this one is part of same counter intelligence gathering...
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/07/09 ... roops.html

ISIS 'capital' captured in Afghanistan, over 160 fighters killed by US, Afghan troops

I
SIS' main stronghold in Afghanistan was captured by U.S and Afghan Special Forces after a prolonged assault that killed nearly 170 terrorist fighters and resulted in no American deaths, military officials said Saturday.The multi-staged military operation in Deh Bala, located on the border with Pakistan, began in April but wrapped up in June, military officials told Reuters.

RoyG
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 11 Jul 2018 08:24

Picklu wrote:
RoyG wrote:
I love America just like many BRFites. This whole India business is just time-pass for many of us after work. Just come home and sit on the sofa with the TV running in your boxers/PJs and root for your fav team (India) on your IPAD/Laptop. But ask any of us to leave and we'll laugh at you. No way in hell. If you came to America, I doubt you would leave either. You cant beat the quality of life. Also, if you don't like America you can try Canada. It's a great place as well. Can you really blame Rabinder Singh? He's a selfish guy. Don't blame him if he gets away with it. Blame the system that encouraged him.


There are many (including me, Negi, Singha, Dileep and many more per open declaration in this forum itself) who has left. To each, his (or her) own I guess.

Thank you for rooting for your fav team, I for one, am deeply grateful.


Good for you. Whatever works. You guys are a very small minority tho. At the end of the day which place is going to let you practice your tradition in peace, make good $, provide better education, lifestyle, etc. It's not India. Maybe in another 40-50 years. For those officers who don't get lured, it says a lot about their mental strength. But if reputation of R&AW is true (after it was beat down by Gujral) it is simply a service which provides plum posting abroad for family members of babus who dont give a damn about India. How can these same people expect to keep secrets when $ and life abroad was their primary motivation in the first place? Perhaps things maybe changing now.

This is OT, but I'm American and not Indian just like many on BRF. While India is trying to find a government to fit its culture, America is trying to find a culture to fit its government. India for me is an idea which can deliver more than what Semitic civilization has been able to produce and I see it as an antidote to the social ills in this society. And for this reason I hope India succeeds b/c it will mean the death of the waspy culture here which has merely taken over the reigns of colonialism from the Brits. Do India's intelligence services have what it takes to thwart the grand designs of US gov? Only time will tell. I'm optimistic tho.

Rakesh
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 11 Jul 2018 09:12

RoyG: What works for you (to quote your own words —> come home, remove pants and walk around in langoti, surfing BRF) is not necessarily what everyone else - that visits BRF - does. You would be surprised to know about people’s backgrounds on BRF and what they do for India, outside of BRF. But it would be pointless explaining that to you, because you have painted everyone here on BRF with a generalized brush.

Thank you for sharing your views on this matter though. Your views have provided a good insight into the depth (or the lack thereof) of your thought. As someone once remarked, “How you speak about others, speaks loudest about yourself.” Have a nice day!

chetak
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby chetak » 11 Jul 2018 09:12

RoyG wrote:
Picklu wrote:
There are many (including me, Negi, Singha, Dileep and many more per open declaration in this forum itself) who has left. To each, his (or her) own I guess.

Thank you for rooting for your fav team, I for one, am deeply grateful.


Good for you. Whatever works. You guys are a very small minority tho. At the end of the day which place is going to let you practice your tradition in peace, make good $, provide better education, lifestyle, etc. It's not India. Maybe in another 40-50 years. For those officers who don't get lured, it says a lot about their mental strength. But if reputation of R&AW is true (after it was beat down by Gujral) it is simply a service which provides plum posting abroad for family members of babus who dont give a damn about India. How can these same people expect to keep secrets when $ and life abroad was their primary motivation in the first place? Perhaps things maybe changing now.

This is OT, but I'm American and not Indian just like many on BRF. While India is trying to find a government to fit its culture, America is trying to find a culture to fit its government. India for me is an idea which can deliver more than what Semitic civilization has been able to produce and I see it as an antidote to the social ills in this society. And for this reason I hope India succeeds b/c it will mean the death of the waspy culture here which has merely taken over the reigns of colonialism from the Brits. Do India's intelligence services have what it takes to thwart the grand designs of US gov? Only time will tell. I'm optimistic tho.


As with any intelligence agency, unaccounted money is the order of the day and very obviously, no receipts will be asked for nor produced.

many a family member has been accounted for as an "anonymous" source and generously paid off. Information freely available and collated from the daily newspapers is passed off as confidential inputs and reports.

I personally knew of one such son who used to swagger around with a cell phone, freely making calls when call rates were exorbitantly high and cell phones were as scarce as hen's teeth.

many a foreign degree has been obtained using this modus operandi.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Jul 2018 14:18

I appreciate Roy honest views and truth be told there are many in India and abroad who think USA is the promised land. and this I have noted with persons of the previous generation including many in the bureaucracy. Hell even my parents think I am a failure for being an Indian in India. The point to be noted that this aspiration is something Western Governments are well aware and use it. many of the Bribes in India are settled for buying houses for their children abroad. Having key personal's children under your control gives leverage.

Thats why you see discussions based on personal pride where they want India to attack China today but want Massa to be safe or this undue worry of Islamisation of Europe.

Manish_P
BRFite
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 11 Jul 2018 15:17

Aditya_V wrote:Thats why you see discussions based on personal pride where they want India to attack China today but want Massa to be safe or this undue worry of Islamisation of Europe.


Glad to see that someone else has noticed this as well... especially on the Mil threads.

Rahul M
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 11 Jul 2018 18:53

on that note, time for a new thread.

also, any takers for viewtopic.php?p=2282534#p2282534 ?
responses in new thread please.


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