Histories of Cities in India

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Arvind » 22 May 2003 05:50

Fairly good biography of kumarajIva

You can find a good introduction to start with in the book, empire of the steppes by Rene Grousset.

Anyhow, another point that our history books often fail to mention is the founding of cities by Indians outside of India. This has not happened often in recent times, but was fairly prevalent in the past. Khotan was a good example along the "Silk" road.

Finally a point to note, which I believe has again been less discussed, is the historical cycling of urban centers and forest land. For example in Maharastra the places which were large urban areas in the Andhra period (areas around Pune, Satara, Paithan) became forest land around 1000s. They again became urban centers with the shilahara and yAdava reigns and lapsed again into forest zones after the Islamic interlude. Finally they were reurbanized under the maharatta revival. I believe this cycling may have helped India maintain some ecological homeostasis (just my guess), which we have now broken and could face consequences.

There may have been more ancient cycles of a similar type in the Indus/Vedic period which have been wrongly interpretted as loss of civilizational continuity.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 05:50

Krishna Deva Raya also has a statue of himself and his two queens (in praying position towards the lord) near the entrance to the main complex at Tirumala. Incidentally, Krishna Deva Raya endowed many temples in South India with money for rebuilding and renovation. His works are visible in a number of temples.

There are also supposed to be inscriptions in Grantham (the precursor to Tamil) at the Parthasarathy temple in Chennai, though I have never seen it myself.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Abhijit » 22 May 2003 05:57

HH:
Finally they were reurbanized under the maharatta revival
My apologies for a little digression, but HH (and Kaushal too), why do you refer to marAthAs as maharattas? I thought 'maharatta' was used by mughals to describe the great marAthAs because they could not pronounce it?
TIA

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 06:22

Quiz Time Folks:

This time, it is a cryptic clue ('cryptic' like in those cryptic crossword puzzles), though not too difficult. I promise you: I made this clue up just now - it is not taken from anywhere.

Name this Indian city:

"Doubt me not, for if I were some hat without thee, I would have lived in this city"

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Abhijit » 22 May 2003 07:05

Sridhar,
You need to give the number of letters in bracket. Also need to tell if the clue is built on English language only.
Sure?

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Kumar » 22 May 2003 07:11

Abhijit,

There is a reason why the words Maharatta and Maharashtra sound similar. Maharatta is a purer form than the MarAThA.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 07:20

Abhijit:

I cannot give the number of letters since that would give the city away. But I can say that it does not require the knowledge of any language other than English.

To solve the puzzle would require some crossword solving skills followed by some history. The followed by because the history part of it becomes relevant after you solve the cryptic clue.

If nobody gets it, I shall give a 'straight clue', i.e. not cryptic. That clue would only require the knowledge of history.

If somebody gets it before then, I get to preserve that clue for a future quiz. ;)

Added later: on second thoughts, if nobody gets it (unlikely) or nobody is interested (possible), I will make this clue progressively easier.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby ramana » 22 May 2003 08:42

I was told that Teen Murti Marg was called Commander-in-chief road. The statues in the rotunda were installed after WWI to commomerate the contribtuions of Indian soldiers in WWI.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby ratnendrap » 22 May 2003 08:46

Originally posted by VickersB:
Panchkula and Mohali do actually fall
into the new city category as they have their own
civic setup (Panchkula is now a district - where as previously Panchkula itself fell under the
Ambala court system and dist.)
I think instead of counting cities, it would make better sense to count urban areas as one unit. In USA, common way of counting huge population center as a unit is what is called MSA (Metropolitan Statisitcal Areas). So, San Fransciso Bay area is counted as single MSA but it itself consists of dozens of small cities. The MSA retains its character even when a MSA is at the boundary of many states, and constituent cities are located in different states.

For example, New York MSA may include cities of NJ. Washington DC MSA may have cities of Virginia, ST Louis MSA may have cities of illinois and Missouri.

Going by this idea, I would count Delhi, GBAD, Noida, Fbad .... etc as one MSA.
Similarly, Chandigarh, SAS Nagar, Panchkula etc can be counted as one unit (and that is what they are for all practical purposes).

Also, there was no Mohali (Pb govt wants this to be known as SAS Nagar but people still call it Mohali), there was no Panchkula (as it is known today) in the undivided Punjab. After Punjab was divied into Haryana, Punjab and HP
and no one could get Chd. Therefore, Punjab developed Mohali at the southern side of Chandigarh. The Mohali was planned as extension to chandigarh, even the sectors were numbered in such a way that count in Mohali begins where count in chandigarh stops.
Similarly Panchkula came up in early 70s along the lines of Mohali. There is always some sort of competition between Mohali and Panchkula. I have heard lately that Mohali is catching up with Panchkula in urban infrastructure. Industrially, Mohali has good standing of its own, independent of Chandigarh.

Now Chandigarh MSA, if I may, is a huge urban area (and probably richest in India) with population around 10 lakhs.

Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby ratnendrap » 22 May 2003 08:55

Originally posted by sbajwa:
Amritsar - Ramdaspur (established by Guru Ramdas, fourth sikh Guru)

Lahore - Lavpur (established by the son of Ramchandar named Lav)

Kasur - Kushpur (brother of lav named kush established this city)

Peshawar = Pushpapur

Ludhiana = Lodhi aana (i.e. invasion of Ibrahim Lodhi)

Bhatinda = Bhattian da (i.e. city belong to the Bhatti Rajputs)

Faridkot = city of Farid (city established by baba Sheikh Farid)

Official name for Mohali is "Sahibzada Ajit Singh Nagar" after elder son of Guru Gobind Singh,
This city was created on the site of an old village called "mohali"

Karnal = Established by Raja Karna (mahabharata fame)

Haridwar = God's door way. (no one knows who established it)

Ganganagar = established by Maharaja Ganga Singh of Rajasthan.

Yamunanaga/Jagadhari (twin cities in Haryana)... ???

Rohtak ???

Bhiwani ????

Hissar ???

Sirsa ???

Gurgaon = means "Jaggery village"

Anandpur= city where brotherhood of Khalsa was created by Guru Gobind singh.

Prakash singh Badal wanted to create a new city on the periphery of Chandigarh but was stopped by the Punjab High court.

Panchkula and SAS Nagar (mohali) are both in separate states with separate muncipals. Panchkula is
a district while SAS nagar is in Ropar District.
Ropar is another example of the people not accepting the name proposed by Govt. Ropar is officially known as Roopnagar.

OK, so new/old name of some other cities:

Multan (Pakistan) - Moolsthan
Faisalabad (Pakistan) - Lyallpur
Allahabad - Prayag
Kanpur - Cawnpore - Kanhapur
Hyderabad - Bhagyanagar
Faizabad (Near Ayodhya) - Saket

Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 09:04

Ratnendra:

The Census of India counts both cities and what are called UAs - Urban Agglomerations. So Mumbai/Thane/Kalyan-Dombivli etc. are reported as separate cities as well as part of the urban agglomeration of Mumbai Metropolitan Area. I have not checked the listing for Chandigarh in the census, but I am reasonably sure Panchkula and Mohali would be included in the Chandigarh U.A. Even smaller cities like Jamshedpur have a UA listing (includes Adityapur in W.Singhbhum distt. and Mango across the river in addition to the city proper).

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Vasu » 22 May 2003 09:12

Has anyone heard of the small town of Kankhal. This town is adjacent to Haridwar, and for administrative purposes comes under the city of Haridwar.

Kankhal, founded by King Daksha Prajapati has the distinction of being the first capital in the world. I know there is not a lot to support this, but i know because i have lived in Haridwar and have heard it from so many "guru jis" i have met.

His daughter was Sati, wife of Lord Shiva and her father did not approve of this marriage. Her father performed a great yagna, but did not invite his son-in-law or his daughter. Sati did come only to be insulted by her father.The offended Sati set herself on fire at a place today called Sati Kund. Shiva's followers killed Daksha on hearing of this, but Lord Shiva brought him back to life.
And this is also the history of Sati, the practice.

The Daksha Mahadev Temple, The Neeleshwar Mahadev Temple and Sati Kund are revered places today.

http://www.indiantravelportal.com/uttar-pradesh/kankhal/

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby S Bajwa » 22 May 2003 09:18

Also, there was no Mohali (Pb govt wants this to be known as SAS Nagar but people still call it Mohali), there was no Panchkula (as it is known today) in the undivided Punjab. After Punjab was divied into Haryana, Punjab and HP
and no one could get Chd. Therefore, Punjab developed Mohali at the southern side of Chandigarh. The Mohali was planned as extension to chandigarh, even the sectors were numbered in such a way that count in Mohali begins where count in chandigarh stops.
Similarly Panchkula came up in early 70s along the lines of Mohali. There is always some sort of competition between Mohali and Panchkula. I have heard lately that Mohali is catching up with Panchkula even in urban infrastructure. Industrially, Mohali has good standing of its own, independent of Chandigarh.
Mohali, Kharar are on the southern edge of chandigarh, Panchkula, Pinjore on the northern edge in Haryana while even Himachal pradesh is looking up to setup a similar cities on the periphery of chandigarh (baddi, hmt, parwanoo)

Chandigarh to Patiala is only 80 kms.
Chandigarh to Ludhiana is less than 100 kms.
Chandigarh to Shimla is 116 kms.
Chandigarh to Ambala is 50 kms.

and each one of the above four cities is populated over 500,000. The quality of life in Mohali, Panchkula, Chandigarh has to be the best in country (no pollution, good water, electercity, schools, hospitals and industries). You can travel from one Edge of the city to the other edge in less than hour. No wonder more and more Delhiites are migrating to this area.

Le Corbusier designed this city for only 200,000 people but now over 1,000,000 people are living in this area.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby ratnendrap » 22 May 2003 10:25

Originally posted by Vasu:

And this is also the history of Sati, the practice.[/URL]
Are you very sure of what you say about Sati above? The word "sati" is
very general word and simply means that woman has wholly sumbmitted her to the well being of her husband. Like Sait Savitri, Sati Ansuia... Sati Behula ... As far as I remeber, none of the above bruned themselves by sitting on the pyres of thier dead husbands.

The sati practice where women would go into flames with her dead husband is has nothing to do with the word "sati" as such. I am not sure, but people with good knowledge of history might tell us when the practice of women going into flames with her husband started. Porbably, women in rajasthan started this to protect themselves from mughal invaders. Officially, the practice of buring women on the pyre of dead husbands was declared illegal by Britishers on the efforts of Ishwarchandra Vidysagar. Somehow word "sati" has stuck with its wrong meaning.
Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby ratnendrap » 22 May 2003 10:31

Originally posted by sbajwa:
Mohali, Kharar are on the southern edge of chandigarh, Panchkula, Pinjore on the northern edge in Haryana while even Himachal pradesh is looking up to setup a similar cities on the periphery of chandigarh (baddi, hmt, parwanoo)
You are stretching Chandigarh a little too far.
I would say - let me borrow from Sridhar - Chandigarh UA does not extend to Baddi, Parwanoo, Kharar, Morinda. The cities/towns/villages that can really claim to be part of Chandigarh UA are Panchkula, Mohali, Derabassi, Chandimandir, Mansadevi Area, Saketri, Khudda Lahora. Anything beyond that is just like saying Aligarh, Mathura, Alwar, or Sonepat are parts of Delhi UA.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Abhijit » 22 May 2003 10:56

Sridhar, from my primitive cryptic clues experience, the answer would be Surat. Doubt me not is sure ->sure + hat - he(thee) = surat.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 11:12

Abhijit: Good one, but that is not what I had in mind :)

OK, here's clue number 2 before I go to bed. It is just a rephrasing of the earlier clue, with one word changed.

"Doubt me not, for were I some hat without thee, I would have preached in this city"

which city is this?

Another hint (this should be a give away) - think of a person.

Guest

Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Guest » 22 May 2003 11:19

Originally posted by Sridhar:
"Doubt me not, for were I some hat without thee, I would have preached in this city"
.........think of a person.
Gandhinagar ?

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 11:45

Didn't get sleep - so here I am again :) .

Boss Krishna, you need to look at all the words and see where things fit in.

One more hint (the last one) - the person in question was not born in India and was not in recent times either.

Guest

Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Guest » 22 May 2003 11:52

Boss, so you saying Gandhiji is a misfit? :D

Anyway, here's why I guessed Gandhinagar.

Doubt me not = Gandhi (Honest, true leader)

For were I some hat without thee = he never wore a hat but people still wear Gandhi topi. (The wordings were a bit confusing, but that's what I decoded as.)

I would have preached / lived in this city = City named after him, would anyone wanna mess with him there?

PS. I know it wasn't right, but just wanted to clarify.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 11:54

Good job, but it isn't Gandhinagar either that I had in mind.

If there is no answer, I shall give it in the morning.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby A Bhushan » 22 May 2003 12:02

Nalanda's pics -since Nalanda is aprx 80 km from Patna. It may be of relevance.
Founded in the 5th Century A.D., Nalanda is known as the ancient seat of learning. 2,000 Teachers and 10,000 Students from all over the Buddhist world lived and studied at Nalanda, the first Residential International University of the World.
Taken from
http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/about/NalandaHeritage_set.html

----
images
-------------
http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/images/nh1.gif
http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/images/nh2.jpg http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/images/nh3.jpg http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/images/nh4.jpg

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby SandeepA » 22 May 2003 17:33

What is the modern location of the ancient Hastinapur? Delhi?

Originally posted by Sridhar:
Good job, but it isn't Gandhinagar either that I had in mind.

If there is no answer, I shall give it in the morning.
Sridhar,
Wake up and kill the suspense before it kills me!

Sandy

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 17:37

"Doubt me not, for if I were some hat without thee, I would have lived/preached in this city"

Answer: Chennai. The person being referred to is St. Thomas the Apostle (born Thomas Dydimus), also known as "Doubting Thomas". One of the disciples of Jesus, there are references in the gospels to his having visited India. He is believed to have lived and preached in the village of Mylapore in present day Chennai.

How does the clue work?

for if I were some hat without thee

for if I were 'some hat' without the 'e'
(split the 'thee' as the words 'the' and the letter 'e')

'some hat' without the 'e' = somhat

rearrange the letters and you get Thomas - voila!

Doubting Thomas, who lived in Chennai (don't concentrate on the 'not' in the 'doubt me not')

St. Thomas is believed to have arrived in India somewhere around 52CE on the Malabar Coast and lived near the then village of Mylapore (now a locality of Chennai). He is believed by many to have died there too and initially interred there. There is no conclusive proof that these stories are correct, but a large number of people believe them nevertheless.

There are three prominent landmarks of Chennai that ar associated with St. Thomas. St. Thomas Mount, where it is believed he died, Little Mount, where it is believed he lived and San Thome Basilica, which is believed to be above his tomb (and people even believe there is a relic in the crypt there). These are major pilgrimage spots, particularly for christians in TN. Mount Road is an arterial road in Chennai and is so named because its southern end is at St. Thomas Mount. There is a suburban railway station called St. Thomas Mount and the Chennai MRTS Phase III would also terminate at this station.

Here's a link about St. Thomas' connection with Chennai
http://www.allindiatourtravel.com/hot_spots/chennai/stthomas_mount/

About San Thome Basilica
http://www.allindiatourtravel.com/hot_spots/chennai/santhome_basilica/

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 22:54

Quiz Time again

See the following picture of India Gate in New Delhi. See the two things I have circled in blue on the picture. These are oddly shaped things in the side alcoves on the two sides of the India Gate. What are they? What do they signify?

http://www.geocities.com/nsridhar74/india_gate

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby S Bajwa » 22 May 2003 23:01

That is where the flame is kept alive in memory of the martyred soldiers..

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 23:17

Sandeep:

The flame - the Amar Jawan Jyoti - is in the centre of India Gate. These structures are on the two sides of the Amar Jawan Jyoti. They were part of the original Lutyens design. The Amar Jawan Jyoti came up only in 1971/72.

So, no those are not the flames or structures for the flames. They are sandstone structures like the rest of the India Gate.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 23:22

Abhushan:

Could you please edit your post to provide links instead of IMG tags? These images are very painful for members who are on slow dialup links. I was in India some time ago and was often unable to open pages with a lot of images. Thanks!

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Bade » 22 May 2003 23:58

Since St. Thomas days in Malabar and before the ancient city of Muziris/Cranganore/Kodungallur with important trade links to the west and china.

http://www.indianchristianity.com/html/Books.htm#CRANGANORE: PAST AND PRESENT

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Vasu » 23 May 2003 00:11

Originally posted by ratnendrap:
Are you very sure of what you say about Sati above? The word "sati" is
very general word and simply means that woman has wholly sumbmitted her to the well being of her husband. Like Sait Savitri, Sati Ansuia... Sati Behula ... As far as I remeber, none of the above bruned themselves by sitting on the pyres of thier dead husbands.

The sati practice where women would go into flames with her dead husband is has nothing to do with the word "sati" as such. I am not sure, but people with good knowledge of history might tell us when the practice of women going into flames with her husband started. Porbably, women in rajasthan started this to protect themselves from mughal invaders. Officially, the practice of buring women on the pyre of dead husbands was declared illegal by Britishers on the efforts of Ishwarchandra Vidysagar. Somehow word "sati" has stuck with its wrong meaning.
Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey
Yes Ratnendra, a lot of women with the name Sati did not immolate themselves, but it is widely attributed that the immolation by Sati, the wife of Shiva is the mythological history of this practice. The word in itself does not imply that meaning. It is the practice i was referring to.

The Mughals also tried to abolish it.
And the earliest practices are also not known. The practice among the Rajput ladies in Rajasthan was 'Jauhar'.

http://adaniel.tripod.com/sati.htm

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Abhijit » 23 May 2003 00:54

Sridhar:
"Doubt me not, for if I were some hat without thee, I would have lived/preached in this city"

Answer: Chennai. The person being referred to is St. Thomas the Apostle (born Thomas Dydimus), also known as "Doubting Thomas". One of the disciples of Jesus, there are references in the gospels to his having visited India. He is believed to have lived and preached in the village of Mylapore in present day Chennai.

How does the clue work?

for if I were some hat without thee

for if I were 'some hat' without the 'e'
(split the 'thee' as the words 'the' and the letter 'e')

'some hat' without the 'e' = somhat

rearrange the letters and you get Thomas - voila!

Doubting Thomas, who lived in Chennai (don't concentrate on the 'not' in the 'doubt me not')

The classic Guardian cryptic clues work a bit differently. Almost each word in the clue has to have a relationship with the word being sought. Also the anagram almost always leads to the word and not to a pointer to the word. Sorry for the digression. Hindu (whimpu) has its own way of formulating cryptic clues and so does Telegraph of Kolkata.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 23 May 2003 01:49

It was a humble 'first' attempt at a cryptic clue :) Hence, it was not without flaws.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Sridhar » 23 May 2003 01:55

Originally posted by Sridhar:
Quiz Time again

See the following picture of India Gate in New Delhi. See the two things I have circled in blue on the picture. These are oddly shaped things in the side alcoves on the two sides of the India Gate. What are they? What do they signify?

http://www.geocities.com/nsridhar74/india_gate
I think people have had enough of these quizzes :) . So let me give the answer. Perhaps I shall stick to a 'Did you know' format in future.

The structure has two components - an urn and a pine cone - the pine cone balanced vertically on top of the urn. You can easily make them out in the structure closer to us in the above picture - the urn placed on a stand and the pine cone above it.

The urn and the pine cone represent death and life respectively. Since it was a war memorial, Lutyens wanted to convey the most basic facts of death (of the soldiers) that gives rise to life (of the citizens) as a result of war. It is a different question that in this case it was the death of 'Indian' soldiers for protecting 'British' lives - the memorial being for the Afghan campaign and WWI.

In any case, that is what these things are. I always wondered about this but found out recently when reading Robert Byron's 1931 feature on New Delhi in the Architectural Magazine.

George J

Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby George J » 23 May 2003 02:20

Originally posted by ratnendrap:
I think instead of counting cities, it would make better sense to count urban areas as one unit. In USA, common way of counting huge population center as a unit is what is called MSA (Metropolitan Statisitcal Areas). So, San Fransciso Bay area is counted as single MSA but it itself consists of dozens of small cities. The MSA retains its character even when a MSA is at the boundary of many states, and constituent cities are located in different states.

For example, New York MSA may include cities of NJ. Washington DC MSA may have cities of Virginia, ST Louis MSA may have cities of illinois and Missouri.
Except for New England, MSA are a collection of counties which have a high degree of social and economic integration. A county is the administrative equivalent of an Indian district.

An MSA consists of a CMSA (Consolidated MSA) which has a population of more than 1 million. CMSA can have one or more PMSA (Priamry MSA).

Hence in your example:

San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, CA CMSA consists of:

Oakland, CA PMSA
Alameda County
Contra Costa County
San Francisco, CA PMSA
Marin County
San Francisco County
San Mateo County
San Jose, CA PMSA
Santa Clara County
Santa Cruz-Watsonville, CA PMSA
Santa Cruz County
Santa Rosa, CA PMSA
Sonoma County
Vallejo-Fairfield-Napa, CA PMSA
Napa County
Solano County

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Prem » 23 May 2003 02:25

Jallandhar
or jal-under ( under water) in Punjab is also a ancient city as it was established by a King called jallndhar as he was born in the water of 'pralaya" or something like that. His wife was a true saint/ pativrata and her spritual power protected him from any harm and he became so arrogant that he challenged Lord Vishnu and got killed. Vishnu got cursed by Jallndhar's wife that Vishnu will loose his other half when He will incarnate as Rama, rest is a long story.

PREM

ratnendrap
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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby ratnendrap » 23 May 2003 05:50

Originally posted by Vasu:
Yes Ratnendra, a lot of women with the name Sati did not immolate themselves, but it is widely attributed that the immolation by Sati, the wife of Shiva is the mythological history of this practice. The word in itself does not imply that meaning. It is the practice i was referring to.

The Mughals also tried to abolish it.
And the earliest practices are also not known. The practice among the Rajput ladies in Rajasthan was 'Jauhar'.

http://adaniel.tripod.com/sati.htm
Vasu,
A few things needs clarification.

1. Sati is not a name. It is a title indicating the pious nature of the woman.

2. Even the reference you provided very clearly says that the Sati does not have a religious sanction. Here is a quote from your reference.

The meaning of the word sati is righteous. But as written earlier the women named Sati, in Hindu religious literature, did not commit suicide on their dead husband's pyre. Therefore the custom of burning the widow on her dead husband's pyre probably did not evolve from religious background but from social background.


Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey

Vasu
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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Vasu » 23 May 2003 23:10

1. Sati is not a name. It is a title indicating the pious nature of the woman.

2. Even the reference you provided very clearly says that the Sati does not have a religious sanction. Here is a quote from your reference.
yes ratnendra, i know Sati does not have a religious sanction at all. Like the texts say, Sati did not burn herself over her husbands pyre. Perhaps the word that links the two is "honor", you know, like a woman burning herself to honor her husband, vague and wrong it may sound. I seriously dont know how this evolved into the 'practice'. I think we are both repeating each other here in different words.

If Sati is not a name, then what is real name of Lord Shiva's wife? :confused:

debjani
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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby debjani » 23 May 2003 23:41

Read my post in 'Indian Cuisine'. It has much on the history of Calcutta or Kolkata which non Bengalis in the news channels state as 'Kaulkatat', which means the 'machine' has been cut. Maybe that is true since industry has vanished!

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby Arvind » 24 May 2003 11:35

[QB]Jallandhar or jal-under ( under water) in Punjab is also a
Though, this is not history, it is a part of the great Hindu epic mythology associated with the origin of this city. Actually, jalandhara was the son of samudra. He was named so because he brought darkness (andhara) by bringing tears (jala) to brahma's eyes by squeezing his neck after his shortly after his birth. brahma gave him the boon that he would become the lord of the demons and gave him a mighty gada. He married the powerful demoness vR^indA and became the king of the daityas, mightier than demons like prahlAda and tripuras. It was said that as long as vR^indA maintained her fidelity, jalandhara could not be conquered. He then waged a great war on the gods and took the great god indra and viShNu as hostages in his palace. He then sought to add umA to his harem and came in conflict with the god rudra. In a fierce battle with rudra's hordes he struck down the gods like gaNapati, kArtikeya, nandi and vIrabhadra and advanced towards shiva. shiva fought jalandhara with many astras and the great trishula but was unable to overcome him. jalandhara then deluded rudra with his mAya and left staring at the dance of apsaras. He then proceeded to grab umA, when he was ravished by her and stood still for some time. umA vanished and mentally communicated to viShNu to destroy vR^indA's fidelity. viShNu then crept into vR^indA's chamber, deluded her to fall for him and embrace him. Once that happended her powers and those of jalandhara were broken. shiva cast off his delusion and fought jalandhara again. Finally he created a new weapon called the sudarshaNa chakra and cut off the head jalandhara. His blood is supposed to have fallen on earth where the city of jalandhar rose :D

Apologies to all offended by such stories in a serious forum.

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Re: Histories of Cities in India

Postby svinayak » 24 May 2003 11:43

HH,
Can you figure out Multan - Moolsthan

It had a very large temple according to history which fell to the islamic invaders.
Could this be the mooldevatha of the punjabis before the early times. The core culture of punjabis revolved around this temple and its economy held the punjabi plains together.

thx


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