P V Narsimha Rao

Umrao
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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Umrao » 21 May 2003 21:29

You missed the 1970s Sridhar!!

(The HMV slogan for the new Stereos ,LP playing music systems was <h3>'The Future is Sound'</h3> generation and the ones who grew with 'Dum Maro Dum' Zeeny Baby :) )

The hard working Masons, manual laborers, forlift drivers, mechanics etc who harvested the 'Gulf Boom' and sent back dollar checks, inspite of Passport officials , Banks and Air India.

They were pioneers for common folk who could go to any land and send part of their prosperity back to Mother India.

I salute them too.

Sridhar
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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Sridhar » 21 May 2003 21:32

Yup, Johnji - add the Gulf boom (or Gelf, as the malloos would say ;) ). But I did not include it as the impact was geographically much more limited.

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Umrao » 21 May 2003 21:45

Sridhar ji>> There were laborers from UP, Punjab, Maharahtra, masons from Andhra/Telengana, Kerala, Mangalore, TN you name it you got it. It was the passion to be a 'success' that drove these illiterate folk to take a giant step, and deal with loan sharks, job Cons in Bombay etc. They were profiles in courage. One Kuwait Dinar at that time fetched Rs 45, when US Dollar was Rs 9.00 approx.

****
For GJ and Ganesh.

I have known middle class (Rly clerks parents) newly graduated engineers (from electrical engg / Chemical / Aeronautical / Instumentation )desparate for jobs take a loan from Money changers with interest rates of 3 - to 4 percent per month and beef up a bank balance and proceed to US consulate in Madras for a Visa to join US universities. There used be a SOB at the consulate who would insult every Indian and randomly give visas.

(The typical question was , How can you assure me that you will come back to India and not seek to settle in US?. No answer would be of any help. only folks who said FU got it).

After reaching US and getting TA/RA the bank balance in Indian bank would be withdrawn and paid back to the loan sharks with interest.

NOw on this forum there are who want to sing

'Main to aarathi utaroon re Atalji ki every day, aur ho saketho peda chadao :D )

There are many unsung heros who have done service to Mother India not just Atalji, and his chela LKg...

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby GGanesh » 21 May 2003 22:32

There are many unsung heros who have done service to Mother India not just Atalji, and his chela LKg...
Precisely the point of this thread, isnt it? To acknowledge PVN R.

You are right about the "beefing up of bank balances" part. In Mumbai, though, my experience was completely different. I had a notarized statement listing all possible assets. Did not even get looked at. All I was asked was where I was heading and good luck. I recollect there were some three more students with me at the same time. Similar story. The only thing checked was the I-20 and ensured that we had financial assistance (RA/TA) in the US. At that time, it was almost axiomatic (I am only speaking of Mumbai) that if the student had financial support, virtually no other document was even looked at save the occasional glance at GRE/TOEFL scores.

PS. I posted this in the News Folder. JU, you might be interested. Apologies in advance if you have read it already.

Comparisons of LKA to Sardar Patel are a gross insult to the Sardar. What india needed at that time was for Tilak to have survived a few more years, and VPatel and Bose at the helm of India's affairs. To India's singular misfortune, we got gandhi and nehru.

http://sify.com/news/politics/fullstory.php?id=13049583&vsv=72
Why Advani isn't India's Iron Man

Sridhar: My recollection was that the Green Revolution was limited to the north, predominantly Punjab. Is that correct?

Sridhar
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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Sridhar » 21 May 2003 23:05

GG:

The maximum impact was definitely in the irrigated areas of north India - Punjab and Haryana typifying these benefits. However, the benefits of the green revolution have been widespread. The green revolution when taken as a short duration in the 60s seems to be localized to these small geographies, but when taken over a longer period of time has positively impacted people everywhere.

Johnji: I defer to your knowledge on the Gulf revolution.

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Muns » 22 May 2003 04:16

One more :

Parliament resolution that Pok is an integral part of India, should be vacated by Pakistan and should be recovered passed on Febuary 1994 under Narasimha Rao's govt....

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Kaushal » 22 May 2003 04:42

i missed that one , Praneet. That is a good one to brandish at TSP, everytime they get uppity about J&K. Very typical of PVNR's Chanakyan strategic thinking.

George J

Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby George J » 22 May 2003 04:45

Originally posted by John Umrao:
For GJ and Ganesh.

I have known middle class (Rly clerks parents) newly graduated engineers (from electrical engg / Chemical / Aeronautical / Instumentation )desparate for jobs take a loan from Money changers with interest rates of 3 - to 4 percent per month and beef up a bank balance and proceed to US consulate in Madras for a Visa to join US universities. ....
Spin,
I did'nt quite get the context of this anecdote. Are you saying Lib helped or did not help in this case. Also what circa was this?

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Umrao » 22 May 2003 04:57

On the green revolution. One must recall that Hybrid varities of wheat were great success in punjab/Haryana.

As far as rice cultivation is concerned AP/TN/Karnataka took to hybrid variety. The poineering efforts of Dr.Swaminathan (IRRI Manila can not be over estimated).

The first Hybrid variety to hit AP was the Taichung nite (sp?) in 1966 as a second crop. Gestation period was 90 days. Short in growth but yield of about 30 quintals of rice (not milled).
The traditional rice (Akkulu) native to S India was grown as first crop which would give large amount of hay as it grows tall for cattle fodder. (in the Godavari/Krishna delta). Some of the fine variety of Rice used to be Nellore (molakulukulu) and Rice from Ghanapur between Hyderabad and Warrangal.

Then we got IR-8 IR-20 Pusa, etc etc later down the lane.
( Iwas once a farmer before I degenerated to DOO thanks to Atalji :) )

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Umrao » 22 May 2003 04:58

GJ>> It was between 1974 to 1981/82.
Boss the lib was not due to tremendous vision thing going in the heads of the leaders of India. We have ceased to produce such leaders.

The tijori was khali by the time PVNR came about.

In nut shell its the people who made what India is not any altu faltu leader.

The masons went to Gulf because it made economic sense.
The Nurses went to UK from Kerala because they would get paid and respected in their profession.

The doctors came to US because the Health care in India was a monopoly of State Govt. Unless you are a state govt or central govt Dr you can not prescribe to GOI folks as they would not get medical reumbursement.

The only Engineers who had some peospect of employment were Mech and Civil (to a limited extent) worst was Chemical, Electrical.

They saw that they could come to US get a masters degree and come back to India or stay back in US with decent jobs.

The software engineering thing was also totally private enterprise Thank God for that.

The people were always ahead of the GOI.

Did you know how much of red tape was to be cut to get FE released for admission into US college. You had to have contacts in RBI / SBI.

Remember Hargobind Khorana living in peons quarters in N Delhi trying to make ends meet, comes to Wisconsin and rest is history.

' Success is a ******* failure is a Orphan'

Now I pray to Atalji for my daily bread.

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Ashutosh » 22 May 2003 10:01

Originally posted by GGanesh:
What india needed at that time was for Tilak to have survived a few more years, and VPatel and [b]Bose at the helm of India's affairs. To India's singular misfortune, we got gandhi and nehru.[/b]
Subhash Chandra Bose? Till a couple of years ago, I was a die-hard fan of his. Now I am not. His taking help from the Nazis for a "noble cause" is pretty much the same as somebody taking help from Lashkar-e-Toiba or Hizbul-Mujahideen for a "noble cause". Sorry for the digression.

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Sridhar » 22 May 2003 10:08

JUg is right when he says that the circumstances were terrible enough when PVNR took over that there was really not much choice. However, credit must go to him for still making that choice!

That said, Yashwant Sinha and Chandrashekhar had decided on very similar measures. But they got booted out, thanks to some (real or imaginary) policemen outside 10, Janpath. The realization really hit home in both the bureaucracy and the political class when those planes full of Gold left the country to be mortgaged for a mere week's imports. Even before the elections, the top bureaucracy had made up its mind that urgent steps were absolutely necessary. And in the Indian Government, never underestimate the clout of the bureacracy. Even if somebody else had become PM, he would have had to do what PVNR did.

Anyway, this is not to take away credit from him. Liberalization was not the only positive initiative he took. There were several others too.

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Kaushal » 22 May 2003 10:56

His taking help from the Nazis for a "noble cause" is pretty much the same as somebody taking help from Lashkar-e-Toiba or Hizbul-Mujahideen for a "noble cause".

How is that different from GOI taking help from the Soviet Union in 1971, when we knew they were putting away thousands of people in the Gulag, and what is worse were trying to subvert indian democracy. This is the same SU that signed the Molotov Ribbentrop pact in 1939 with Germany, in hopes of diverting Hitler's attention to the west. This was about the same time that Netaji Bose made his way to Nazi germany after escaping from a British jail. And in fact the Indian CPI did the same - support the Nazis until they attacked the FSU.

politics make strange bedfellows.

As for dealing with LeT and HuM, India has offered to deal with the Hurrirats, which has as much a bloody hand as the other two.

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Ashutosh » 22 May 2003 11:04

Kaushal, maybe you are right ... however the other examples you cite have moved ahead in time. Subhash Chandra Bose was stuck in time. No fault of his, though.

PS: Added later: well, maybe my reaction to the Nazi connection was because of the fact that I have read only two non-fiction non-technical books in my whole lifetime ... (both were written by Jews and Judaisam was pretty much part of the story) ... so the effect is more horrific ... thanks for the input on the other "massacres". Maybe we need a new thread to document all the historic "cleansing" attempts one can remember. Some of the more recent ones I remember are the Kosovo conflict and the Rwanda/Tutsi conflict.

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Kaushal » 22 May 2003 11:34

Asutosh, you bring up troubling questions re. the extent to which one should ally oneself with evil for the sake of self preservation. There are no easy answers. In retrospect, one should keep one's distance from such regimes. Sweden and Switzerland chose to remain neutral in WW II and profited handsomely as a result, and came out unscathed from the war. Gandhiji himself was ambivalent about India participating in WW II.

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Rahul Mehta » 22 May 2003 16:47

PVNR was just a defunct neta who reached top by faithfully serving his Masterni, Indiraben and later serving RGbhai with more faith. He rose to that height NOT becuease of any merit or mass-base, but becuase he was diehardly loyal.

He had lost favors with RGbhai. IIRC, he was even denied tix in 1989 Loksabha elections. His career was almost over.

But suddenly some criminals aka terrorists murdered RGbhai, and Congress-I was left leaderless. The puppets were without a master puppeteer. Sharad Pawar wanted to be PM, but others were scared of him, as he had mass base, muslce power as well as money and they thought that Sharad Pawar can also devour their fiefdoms. So those who were less powerful that Sharad Pawar, but knew that they could any way NOT become PM supported PVNR, who was well known, not badnaam, a presentable face and since he had zero mass-base, he was NOT a threar to other neta.

Basically, his "plus" point was that he did not have a mass base, and other Congress neta would not feel threatened from him.

What do you expect from such a defunct neta, who by luck becomes a PM?

PVNR had BRIBED 4 jharkhand MPs so that he keep his PMship. I can approve supporting Nazies to get back at Brits, but I cant approve bribing MPs for any noble cause like "continuing PMship". He he should have been imprisoned for this. And certainly he would have landed in prison except for a defunct HCj who resevred the lower court verdict.

MMS was NOT PVN's choice. IMF/WB etc had ordered PVNR to appoint MMS as FM and PVNR was so weak that he had no option but to OBEY IMF/WB/MNCs etc like a faithful servant. It takes hectic lobbying and clout even to become a Minister without portfolio. and becoming FM needs heavy clout or one needs to be hardcore PM-loyalist (like Pranav Mukherjee). MMS had ZERO clout on Parliament, but had a lot of clout in IMF/WB where he had served for several years.

[MMS was not even a Congress member, forget MP, when PVNR became PM. He joined Congress just a few hours/days before PVNR became MP. And since MMS had ZERO mass base and extremely unpopular with commons, there was NOT a single LS seat where he can win. So entered Parliament via backdoor namely Rajya Sabha. Even today, commons hate MMS so much that there is NOT a single LS seat where he can win]

The liberalization etc were NOT brainchild of MMS/PVNR but they were plans/orders drafted by WB/IMF etc and faithfully implemented by PNVR/MMS.

MMS/PVNR made it REEEEEAL easy for elitemen to loot UTI, ICICI, IFCI and many banks. A big chunk of NPI we are facing is due to PVNR/MMS duo. Due to PVNR/MMS, many pensioners (my father included) etc lost a big chunk of their hard earned money they have invested in UTI .

Mediamen, who are slaves of those elitemen, gave tall rankings to PVNR/MMS ONLY becuase PVNR/MMS gave them opputunity to loot UTI, ICICI, IFCI and many banks.

PVNR to politics was same as what Harshabhai was to share market --- just game, no real work.

-Rahul Mehta

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Rahul Mehta » 22 May 2003 18:36

Originally posted by Sridhar:
JUg is right when he says that the circumstances were terrible enough when PVNR took over that there was really not much choice.
and PVNR was a minister for decades before 1991.

So he was ONE of the factors why situation in 1991 was so terrible.

However, credit must go to him for still making that choice!
What credit?

All did was that he would NEVER take any decision.

He would merely let the strong guys beat/loot the weaks, and turn his face other ways. eg when elitemen wanted to loot UTI he allowed them. When Harshadbhai wanted to loot banks, he allowed him.

He just allowed anyone to do whatever he wanted to do, and just did nothing to stop the bad guys.

And in the Indian Government, never underestimate the clout of the bureacracy.
That speaks volumes about defunctness of ALL neta, PVNR included. Babus indeed have tons of clout becuase neta are defunct.

Even if somebody else had become PM, he would have had to do what PVNR did.
That also speaks volumes about defunctness of ALL neta, PVNR included.

BTW, does anyone know what happended to his son's urea scandal?

-Rahul Mehta

Anyway, this is not to take away credit from him. Liberalization was not the only positive initiative he took. There were several others too.[/QB][/QUOTE]

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Umrao » 22 May 2003 19:36

RM>> Ministers under IG were like ministers under Saddam. OK a little hyberbole. :)

Mres IG left nothing to the ministers to decide, for that matter even the CMs of states were in the Khursi at her will and express pleasure.

SO there was little PVNR could do except advice when called upon. Mrs IG was different kettle of fish, and those times were entirely different.

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Umrao » 22 May 2003 21:09

This is what I was trying to say. Its a matter of pride and fact that Indians worked hard to be where they are not due to some 'ayaram gaya ram'.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=47126651

Nagi Naganathan is dean Univ of Toledo Engg
RICHARD SPRINGER

[ THURSDAY, MAY 22, 2003 06:30:25 AM ]

After a nationwide search and interview process, the University of Toledo has appointed "Nagi" Ganapathy Naganathan, currently interim dean of the university's college of engineering, to the position on a permanent basis.

"It's a good feeling being selected after a very rigorous process," Naganathan said in a phone interview from Toledo, Ohio.

On the University of Toledo faculty since 1986, he is a tenured professor of mechanical, industrial and manufacturing engineering. Naganathan served as founding chair of the mechanical, industrial, and manufacturing engineering department from 1995-2000, despite being the youngest member of the department of mechanical and industrial engineering when the post was created.

Named interim dean in November 2000, Naganathan, 45, also serves as director of the Dynamic & Smart Systems Research laboratory at the university.

His research interests include smart material systems and structures, robotics and microcomputer applications in electromechanical systems. The author of more than 90 publications, he has served as a consultant for companies including General Motors, Dana, Proctor and Gamble, Eaton and Reed Air Products.

"Under the interim leadership of Dr Naganathan, the College of Engineering has made great strides in community engagement," said Alan Goodridge, provost and vice-president for academic affairs at the University of Toledo. "I anticipate we will see great things in the future with Nagi at the helm."

Naganathan said that the University of Toledo, which enrolls about 21,000 students annually, has an excellent reputation in academic circles, but he intends to be an evangelist to get the word out across the US. "We want (to attain) a national prominence for all the right reasons. There are good things going on here."

"The College of Engineering has a great opportunity to play a pivotal role in shaping the future of northwest Ohio," he said in a statement. He will earn an annual salary of $163,000.

Born in Chennai, Naganathan grew up in the "city of temples," Kumbakonam, in Tamil Nadu. He graduated from Regional Engineering College, Trichy, under the umbrella of the University of Madras, with a B. E. in mechanical engineering.

Viewing himself as "just one in a zillion (in India) with a bachelor's in engineering," he passed the entrance exam and enrolled at the Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad. Two weeks into the program, he received word that he was admitted to the master's program at Clarkson University, New York, so he headed to the US in 1979.

"I am the youngest of nine (siblings). I have four brothers and four sisters. All stayed in India. I knew that I could not do anything new. Being the youngest, my parents had seen everything, so I decided to go to the (US)"

Naganathan received an MS in mechanical engineering from Clarkson in 1981 and a PhD in mechanical engineering from Oklahoma State University in 1986.

A key mentor in his career, he said, was the late Indian American engineering professor at the University of Cincinnati, Abe Soni, who died in February 2000 after a heart attack.

Soni was not only Naganathan's PhD advisor, but also helped him with public speaking and other areas associated with his thesis. "I miss him very much. Next to my parents, he was the greatest influence in my life."

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He has secured more than $2.6 million of sponsor funding for the university's research programs. Naganathan was also named the 2003 Engineer of the Year by the Toledo Society of Professional Engineers and is a recipient of the University of Toledo's Outstanding Teacher award.

Even while he was acting department chair, he continued to teach at least one course, a "senior design clinic," for graduate students to do special projects for private industry, a program he co-founded.

The class forms into a mini-consulting team that works for 15 weeks on products, many of them for the disabled, such as modifying lawn tractors for use by handicapped people. The University of Toledo completes 15-20 such projects each year. Naganathan also recently joined the disabled committee of the local Rotary Club.

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Rahul Mehta » 22 May 2003 21:58

A joke goes as follow

Q: what is the difference between (X = group you dont like) and elephant?
A : 50 pounds

Q: How do you reduce that difference?
A: Feed the elephant.

Originally posted by John Umrao:
RM>> Ministers under IG were like ministers under Saddam. OK a little hyberbole. :)
It is a hyperbole. Saddam was NOT that bad.

Mres IG left nothing to the ministers to decide, for that matter even the CMs of states were in the Khursi at her will and express pleasure.

SO there was little PVNR could do except advice when called upon. Mrs IG was different kettle of fish, and those times were entirely different.
Only the spinelessest would survive with IG. So one can guess how spiny PVNRg was.

Most neta built in those days and times simply had NO skill except manipulating party workers, cutting deals with elitemen/mediamen and somehow keeping their kursies intact. None ever faced any real challange of doing any real work. Doing real work was a useless skill back then and most didnt have it or lost it over the time.

Most of his life, being a stooge of IG, PVNRg had done nothing but IG-bhakti and manipulations on her behalf. In 1991, PVNRg was too old to re-aquire the skill of doing useful work. So through out his tenure, he just tactfully did nothing and let everyone do whatever he wanted. Basically, if one had strength to rob anyone, he would let one do so, and wont become obstacle lest one would try to dethrone him.

He was also the was the first ex-PM to be ever convicted by a lower court. Bas ek cheez bachi thi,PVNRg ne puree kar dee.

I was really going to distribute sweets if the pandus had actually taken PVNRg to the prison. But alas, the lower court gave a sentence of mere 3 years, and so there was no immidiate imprisonment and he was given 1 month to file appeal. As I knew it, HCj threw a spanner, spoilt the fun and imposed a stay order on the prison sentence. And later, as expected HCj acquitted PVNRg despite mountains of evidences.

I still wish that one day courts would imprison PVNRg for paying bribes to those 4 MPs. God knows if my wish would come true ....

-Rahul Mehta

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby Umrao » 22 May 2003 22:04

RM>> Most of the men were spineless under Mrs IG.
Even our Atalji called her Durga.

So PVNR was not the only one to put spine at home.

Even now look at congress walas, they crawl at the feet of Sonia G, just beacuse she has G at the end (of her name)

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby AJay » 23 May 2003 02:18

Originally posted by John Umrao:
Some of the fine variety of Rice used to be Nellore (molakulukulu) and Rice from Ghanapur between Hyderabad and Warrangal.
And Sambrani and China Sindhuvayalu

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Re: P V Narsimha Rao

Postby R Vaidya » 23 May 2003 04:49

One interesting incident in PV's life was his address to the US congress when he was PM.
It was told in those days, that the crowd were not members of congress but clerks / ushers/ page boys/cooks etc. The rotunda was full anyway.
May be it is a common practice in US [ Congress] to mobilise crowd like that for foreign dignatories.
The story goes that when it was pointed out to him he seems to have mentioned that " atleast they listen". One does not know how much it is true, but if it is true then it is a classic quip since they have only " Senate hearing committes"


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