Water: Linking major rivers in India

Katare
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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Katare » 15 Feb 2003 06:15

Common guys someone must have access to India-Today print addition? Please post that damm map that we all were waiting for so long. India-Today 20th Jan issue!! Anyone ?

Map on WRM sucks you can hardly read anything in it.

Katare
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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Katare » 15 Feb 2003 22:42

up?


saint
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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby saint » 15 Feb 2003 22:51


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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby saint » 15 Feb 2003 23:03

http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/nwda2.jpg

Proposed inter basin water transfer links

National Water dev agency, of water resources
GoI, 2002.

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Katare » 16 Feb 2003 00:11

A nice article and respectable/rational argument but here is some of the things that Mr. Sharma either assumed wrongly or forgot to mention –

River interlinking Project (RIP)

- RIP is not based on water availability on northern rivers from Himalayan snow. It’s based more on catching and transferring rainwater from high rainfall northeastern parts to southern/western arid areas during mansoon. RIP’s dependence on Himalayan snow would be minimal.

- Water transfer would take place only during the time of plenty for storage in the low rain fall areas

- RIP will effectivly raise ground water table all over the India because of national reach

- Aral Sea and Nile are both good and bad example, RIP can learn and built on them.

- Drying up of Rivers/ reduced annual flow and diminishing glaciers is a natural & progressive climatic change phenomenon. Historically, thousands of rivers have dried up (including mighty Saraswati) all over the world because of the end of the last Ice age (10000 years ago) and global warming.

- World over fresh water availability per head is reducing, the reduction is faster in the developing countries compared to developed countries where rivers are more or less managed and population growth is slow.

- Small catchment and check dams are economically not suitable to produce enough renewable, low cost and zero pollution hydroelectric power.

Mr. Sharma’s Community water harvesting

India has 500 thousand villages, the Project cost for Mr. Sharma’s plan would be –

Cost of 500,000 small dam/tanks/ponds of 35,000 Cubic Foot capacity
Cost of Rain catchment/diversion area development
Cost of 500,000 Hectare land
Other cost (Project planing, implementation etc)

If I take total cost of 1 corer /village it will cost me Rs 5,000 Billion without any hydroelectric power. RIP costs half of this. If I take more conservative 50 lakhs/village it will cost me as much as RIP without HEP component.

Also Mr Sharma will not solve or minimize –

- Flood problem
- Drought Problem
- This Project would be almost unsuccessful in arid areas (less 150-MM rain)
- There won’t be any navigable waterways
- No hydro electric power
- Metro and other big cities will not get drinking water
- Unequitable and unreliable water availability will continue

Well, I think solution lies in pursuing both projects in way that they complement each other. None of them can substitute other.

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby saint » 16 Feb 2003 01:41

RIP is good.. perhaps the acro sounds not that sounding.

How about A Project of Inter Linking of Indian Rivers "PIRIL" or APRIL, or something that sounds nice.

just for the heck of it. :)

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 20 Feb 2003 20:06

Linking Rivers: Mirage or Reality? -- TVR Shenoy

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/feb/20flip.htm

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby saint » 21 Feb 2003 23:31

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10141-2003Feb14.html


A Hindu Quest for Some Holy Water
Attempt to Unearth Ancient Waterway May Affect Indian History and Politics

A heady mix of religion, politics, science and archeology drives their efforts, and the results of the search may not only challenge some fixed notions about the earliest civilization on the Indian subcontinent, but could also confirm fears among India's secular historians that the country's Hindu-nationalist ruling party is trying to rewrite history to suit its agenda.
"Saraswati is not only a matter of Hindu faith, but also fact," said Ravindra Singh Bisht, director of the Archaeological Survey of India, who supervises excavation along what is believed to be the course of the river. "The overwhelming archeological evidence of ancient settlements along the course of what was once the Saraswati River proves that our earliest civilizations were not confined to the Indus river alone. Those who wrote the Hindu Vedas on the banks of the Saraswati were the same as the Indus Valley people."

"Saraswati is not only a matter of Hindu faith, but also fact," said Ravindra Singh Bisht, director of the Archaeological Survey of India, who supervises excavation along what is believed to be the course of the river. "The overwhelming archeological evidence of ancient settlements along the course of what was once the Saraswati River proves that our earliest civilizations were not confined to the Indus river alone. Those who wrote the Hindu Vedas on the banks of the Saraswati were the same as the Indus Valley people."

The BJP-led government already has taken steps to make these findings official. In October, it ordered several significant changes in the history textbooks, one of which was to change the name of the Indus Valley civilization to the Saraswati River civilization.

In 1998, groundwater experts dug wells along the dry bed identified in the images and they found potable water, even under vast stretches of desert.

"We still need to study the sediments to prove the origin of the river was in the Himalayan glacier like our Vedas claimed," .. "After that, we can proudly claim to be the oldest living civilization and culture with an unbroken link to our past."

"Hinduism was not brought to us by a foreign race called Aryans. It was born here on our land. The Rig Veda was composed here on the banks of Saraswati by indigenous people around the time of the Indus Valley period," said Arun Kesarwani, professor of ancient history at Kurukshetra University. "That is why the quest for Saraswati is important. It will shatter all the prevalent theories to pieces."

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Vick » 21 Feb 2003 23:44

No, no. Any Indian acronym must have the word "advanced" in it. Therefore, I like Sai's idea of APRIL. Advanced Project for River Inter-Linking.

Katare
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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Katare » 23 Feb 2003 09:23

All right it looks pretty cool and impressive. The waterways will create another Golden quadrilateral parallel to GQ-road.

I have this Map as a JPG of Indian rivers and proposed links. How do I post it here can some one Help?

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 23 Feb 2003 10:54

Interlinking of rivers to be driver of growth: Kalam

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/stories/2003022301560300.htm

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby saint » 25 Feb 2003 04:25

This project is at PERIL from Medha Patkar!!! again she is on linking "privitization" to beuracracy & politicians rather linking rivers. Look at her objectives..

she says it will give into confilicts like cauvery.. unbelievable lady! amazing skills she is showing. eh!

What has corruption and beuracarcy to do with the benefits of the project.

Man, somebody should stand up and say "shut up" to her.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?artid=38385338

May be she wants her clouts to get the contracts or something of that sort. she is really starving to make headlines i guess. :( , when the real people are starving to get water through this project.

We need APRIL showers rather, and not some patkar roaching it to trashbag.

Where are the petition guys.. fling one against her right now.

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 02 Mar 2003 08:10


saint
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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby saint » 02 Mar 2003 20:49

from the above link:

‘‘So the question pops up: What will Nepal get for drowning its villages to benefit villages and cities in India,’’

Bangladesh, too, claims ..‘‘Such a project can only have disastrous consequences for us .’’

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 03 Mar 2003 09:48

PM selects panel for river-linking plan

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=19448

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Prateek » 06 Mar 2003 07:59

River linking: Task force for consensus on all issues.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?artid=39395354

‘‘Interlinking of water is a once-in-a-lifetime project and its implementation will create a new unified version of India,’’ Prabhu said on Wednesday at a national conference organised by FICCI.

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 06 Mar 2003 09:48

`River networking will change shape of India'

http://www.hinduonnet.com/stories/2003030604801100.htm

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Mar 2003 23:11

I'm pretty convinced that the river-basin linking idea is a poor one.

Until you optimize local watershed management, you don't really know how much surplus or deficit you really have. The data are simply not good enough.

Local development projects, which are initiated locally (though perhaps planned using e.g., remote sensing data) are sustainable, and bring about more benefits than these huge hydro-projects run from Delhi or state capitals. BTW, the remote sensing guys can provide you data very inexpensively to help manage water locally.

All these numbers bandied of how much hydropower, etc., are all guesstimates. I wonder why only opponents of the project are asked for "scientific data", as though these numbers bandied around have some scientific basis. They don't. It is simply following the process that if something is quoted enough number of times it becomes the "truth".

India has a problem with inter-state riparian conflicts; and this river-linking project will simply exacerbate the situation.

IMO, the correct thing to do is to first optimize local watershed management. This gives immediate benefits as well, no need to wait for years and years while canals get built. The river linking project is for the distant future, when local optimization is high, and the water situation is much clearer.


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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Prateek » 13 Mar 2003 07:07

>>> IMO, the correct thing to do is to first optimize local watershed management. This gives immediate benefits as well, no need to wait for years and years while canals get built. The river linking project is for the distant future, when local optimization is high, and the water situation is much clearer.

Local watershed management as you said may take care of the current problems, but it cannot be a gyaranteed solution for the future. The future future water requirement, is going to be HUGE, considering the developments going on inside the country. But the current water availability predictions for the future are very bleak.

If you keep waiting for the local watershed management to complete, to assess the future water requirement situation, then that will be a mistake, infact a blunder, policywise.

IMO, both projects can go in parallel. But 'river linking project' should be alive and started. The importance and the intencity of interlinking river project can be reviewed and varied based on the results that we keep achieving from the local water management project.

If one understands the problems that could arise due to the shortage of water in the future, we can not afford to fall behind on the schedule for the inter river linking product. We should not scrap the 'river linking project' assuming that the local water management can solve our future water requirements. Water in surplus will not be a major problem, but water shortage can even divide India. The water shortage can start internal wars and divide the people. The stakes of not acting are extremely high and dangerous for the nations integrity. For the better future, India should begin the river linking project, not just on paper, but on the field.

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Mar 2003 00:38

Originally posted by muddur:
Local watershed management as you said may take care of the current problems, but it cannot be a gyaranteed solution for the future. The future future water requirement, is going to be HUGE, considering the developments going on inside the country. But the current water availability predictions for the future are very bleak.
Muddur, one does not even know the local need for water until one has done the exercise of planning and measuring the local watershed. If village X seems to be water-deficit today, but works out to be actually surplus, then you would not want to transport water to that village, would you ?

By the way, the exercise of doing the detailed planning work can be done in a finite time and relatively inexpensively. I had the good fortune to visit a Regional Remote Sensing Service Center in my recent visit to India; and very detailed data and models are available.

---

On a only somewhat related note, the Center has been asked the question - locate the sustainable water source for this village or town and estimate the cost of building the water supply. They have all the data to do it. They know, e.g, how much rock you are going to have to blast through. Their solutions cost half to one-third of what are finally approved (because someone is eating the money). As they wryly put it, we are not invited again.

It is very hard to lie to the eye in the sky. Our sugarcane farmers happily lie on how much irrigation water they are using, in order to avoid water levies; and so in this case, where the government wants revenue (as opposed to wanting to gobble money), they are resorting to remote sensing to determine how much to charge.

----

Finally, while I'm at this, I'd like someone to explain on how I can get net megawatts of electricity by linking river basins.

-Arun Gupta

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Mar 2003 00:45

Local management of water - and not any inter-basin river water transfer - turned Alwar green.

http://www.tehelka.com/channels/ecology/2001/jun/19/enh061901tarun.htm

Inexpensive, effective; and yes, remote sensing can tell you precisely what johads to build and where; and at a cost of a few thousand rupees per village (if you don't do it right, you will render fertile land saline).

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby johnkrishna » 14 Mar 2003 00:55

by constructing dams and hydroelectric turbines - pretty expensive. - need to create the gravity based fall.

check this link http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0517-05.htm
that talks about flow based turbines generating power.

Hope Suresh Babu gets this info : helical turbines generating power from tidal currents - canal water flows.

Probably he will not heed. politics and corruption will override new technology and innovations.

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby johnkrishna » 18 Mar 2003 03:02

must read:

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/mar18/snt1.asp

Eyeing blue Gold.

We can't be left out in this big issue of water. We were sleeping on bio-technology front only to wake up now {thought better late than never}.

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 21 Mar 2003 22:46


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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby A_Gupta » 22 Mar 2003 03:27

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RajeevT:
Linking rivers can change fortunes: Prabhu

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?msid=40991992
[/QUO TE]

Please tell me how you can generate 35,000 MW of power by taking river water from one basin to another that you could not do while leaving the water in the same basin ?

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby johnkrishna » 22 Mar 2003 03:38

arun gupta, dams. build dams, and once the dam is full, the excess water is let go into the diverted stream. This flows into a turbine {regular hydro electric} power generation.

I guess, its going be really expensive affair that way.

It can be done on the same basin {if agreed}. Its not just the power generation, its the water distribution along with power generation project, together that is linking of rivers.

Since, its going to be new parties or a project that is new, sharing of water {i guess excess from north rivers to south}, makes it all a new proposal, new agreement, and hence easier to agree and build new dams.

Otherwise, right from narmada to cavery, you know how things are working in india. water politics has hit the poor badly.

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 28 Mar 2003 04:48

Move for MoU with States on interlinking of rivers

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2003/03/28/stories/2003032805651100.htm

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Raj Singh » 03 Apr 2003 19:15

Quote:

"Laloo sees 'conspiracy' in PM's river linking plan

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=20243

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby O Vijay » 04 Apr 2003 22:49


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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 16 Apr 2003 04:32

AP Chalks Out Action Plan For Water-starved Mandals

http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=32358

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 17 Apr 2003 03:56


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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 17 Apr 2003 04:43


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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 18 Apr 2003 04:00

Interlinking of rivers: SPV to rehabilitate the displaced

http://www.hinduonnet.com/bline/2003/04/18/stories/2003041800230900.htm

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 19 Apr 2003 05:10

`Construction sector must focus on rain harvesting'

http://www.hinduonnet.com/bline/2003/04/19/stories/2003041902140500.htm

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 21 Apr 2003 20:31


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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Prateek » 22 Apr 2003 07:14

Originally posted by raj singh:
Quote:

"Laloo sees 'conspiracy' in PM's river linking plan

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=20243
The report claims Uloo says so ... Recalling that bifurcation of Bihar had led to heavy loss of revenue as minerals went to Jharkhand, Yadav alleged that the Centre wanted to take Bihar's water without giving anything in return.

Which only means that he wants his share of the fodder. Nothing else.

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Prateek » 24 Apr 2003 01:23

India, Nepal to set up joint project for using water resources
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=20648

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Re: Water: Linking major rivers in India

Postby Kakkaji » 01 May 2003 08:22



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